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Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of childhood sexual abuse. Please take care,

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Speaker 1: will listening.

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Speaker 2: You can't ovulate harder if you think about it better

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Speaker 2: and you pay more attention to it. You can't do

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Speaker 2: anything like that. So all we have is what people

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Speaker 2: sell us, and unfortunately we will buy whatever you are

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Speaker 2: selling when you're in this.

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Speaker 1: When Sarah Davis begins trying to get pregnant in her

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Speaker 1: mid thirties, she discovers a world of products for sale,

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Speaker 1: promising to increase her fertility and give her a child.

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Speaker 2: I read every article, I followed every summit company on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: I fell down the rabbit hole of the wellness industry

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Speaker 2: that is just utilizing Instagram to sell you crap you

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Speaker 2: don't need.

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Speaker 1: Sarah now works as a creative director for a clothing company,

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Speaker 1: but she spent her twenties as a fashion designer in Nashville,

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Speaker 1: sewing the Dazzled Tour costumes for icon Dolly Parton. When

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Speaker 1: I first talked to Sarah on the phone, she came

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Speaker 1: across as street smart and impervious to bullshit. But the

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Speaker 1: quest to get pregnant can un more even the most

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Speaker 1: grounded among us.

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Speaker 2: I racked up so much debt trying to do all this.

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Speaker 2: At one point, I was on like four hundred dollars

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Speaker 2: a month, where the supplements everything's ninety dollars and last

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Speaker 2: for thirty days, and it's just it's so much.

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Speaker 1: Online it's easy to find other people's advice on exactly

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Speaker 1: what you need to do to get pregnant, which may

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Speaker 1: or may not be scientifically rigorous. Drink lots of pomegranate juice,

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Speaker 1: take coke ten, keep your feet warm to warm your uterus.

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Speaker 1: And there's even some funny IVF superstitions, like eating McDonald's

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Speaker 1: french fries on the way home from your embryo transfer.

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Speaker 2: There is literally a blog that lists the ninety some

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Speaker 2: odd things she did to get pregnant. All the cleaning

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Speaker 2: supplies have to be changed, all the soaps, all your shampoo,

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Speaker 2: all of your toothpaste. You can't put chapstick on your

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Speaker 2: lips because it's got to be organic and free range

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Speaker 2: or whatever the heck it's going to be. Sounds crazy,

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Speaker 2: but that's how I felt. That's how I felt, like

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Speaker 2: that's what I need, because that's what's going to get

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Speaker 2: me pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Sarah went all in. She tried expensive teas that claimed

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Speaker 1: to have a higher success rate than IVF a special

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Speaker 1: bracelet that tracked her fertility seed cycling, which is when

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Speaker 1: you eat specific seeds during certain phases of your monstrual cycle.

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Speaker 2: You're supposed to take these two seeds in your smoothie

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Speaker 2: for the first two weeks of your cycle, then these

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Speaker 2: two seeds in the second two weeks of your cycle,

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Speaker 2: and it's supposed to balance out your hormones.

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Speaker 1: And she even resorted to magical thinking.

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Speaker 2: I had gone to a crystal shop and gotten a

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Speaker 2: special crystal that was supposed to I don't even know.

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Speaker 2: I was supposed to waste money. That's what it was

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Speaker 2: supposed to do. That's exactly what it did. It's supposed

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Speaker 2: to sell me on something I didn't need.

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Speaker 1: Fun fact, I bought a crystal too.

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Speaker 2: You can buy a spell on eBay and someone from

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Speaker 2: like Transylvania will say a spell over you and your

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Speaker 2: uterus from Afar.

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Speaker 1: Paying a stranger real dollars to cast a spell to

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Speaker 1: help you get pregnant. Just take a moment to let

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Speaker 1: that sink in. To an outsider, it may seem ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: but I understand it, just like I relate to those

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Speaker 1: fairy tales about infertility from the past. These stories all

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Speaker 1: revolve around the same idea. When you want to get

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Speaker 1: pregnant this badly, you will do anything, no matter how uncomfortable, bizarre, inconvenient,

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Speaker 1: or expensive, to get a baby in your arms.

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Speaker 2: Let's freaking do it. I will drink disgusting tea. I

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Speaker 2: will take all these supplements, I will do all the

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Speaker 2: things I need to do if that will get me

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Speaker 2: to my end goal.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: We're tired, we're broke, we're emotional. We just want it.

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Speaker 3: To be over.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, people have figured out that this group of people

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Speaker 2: are easy to take advantage of because we're desperate.

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Speaker 1: I'm Melissa Jelson from School of Humans and iHeart podcasts.

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Speaker 1: This is what happened in Nashville Episode three. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that's your ovary?

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Speaker 4: Human fertility as a subject matter and as an important

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Speaker 4: role in societies dates back literally thousands of years. If

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Speaker 4: you go back and look at some of the Egyptian

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Speaker 4: papyriy that were then able to be interpreted after the

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Speaker 4: discovery of the Rosetta Stone, there are actually fertility therapies

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Speaker 4: that are described in great detail in hieroglyphics.

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Speaker 1: This is doctor Allan Penzius, a board certified reproductive endercinologist,

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Speaker 1: an associate professor at Harvard Medical School. He's talking me

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Speaker 1: through the history of fertility medicine.

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Speaker 4: So the fact is that fertility and infertility were recognized

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Speaker 4: not only as problems thousands and thousands of years ago,

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Speaker 4: but also recognized that there were potential treatments that could

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Speaker 4: then alleviate the suffering of those who weren't becoming pregnant.

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Speaker 4: Now to us in the twenty first century, looking back

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Speaker 4: at some of the methods they used, some of them

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Speaker 4: were really remarkably insightful. Others were quite way else to mark.

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Speaker 1: In ancient Greece, for example, women were told to fill

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Speaker 1: a cloth pouch with ground lead and iron, dip it

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Speaker 1: in breast milk, and insert it into their vaginas. In

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Speaker 1: medieval Italy, one suggestion was to bury an egg nearer

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Speaker 1: cathedral for eight days, then dig it up and eat it.

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Speaker 4: But as we moved through human history and throughout the

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Speaker 4: Renaissance and then into the eighteenth in nineteenth century when

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Speaker 4: started discovering things, being able to look at cells under

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Speaker 4: the microscope and seeing motile sperm, and ultimately in the

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixties nineteen seventies we started to see medicines that

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Speaker 4: allow women to ovulate more regularly.

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Speaker 1: The seventies saw one of the biggest advancements in fertility treatment.

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Speaker 4: The Watershed event that broke the dam and allowed millions

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Speaker 4: of women to be able to become pregnant. West In

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Speaker 4: July of nineteen seventy eight, Louis Brown was born the

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Speaker 4: first human baby born as a result of in vitro fertilization.

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Speaker 2: We can now hand it.

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Speaker 3: To the baby Pride.

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Speaker 5: At twenty seconds.

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Speaker 6: Doctors reported that the baby was doing fine and eating well,

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Speaker 6: and the parent they reported were doing fine too.

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Speaker 1: After the birth of the first so called test two

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Speaker 1: baby in England in July nineteen seventy eight, the race

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Speaker 1: was on for the United States to follow. Fertility clinics

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Speaker 1: began springing up across the country, including one at Vanderbilt

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Speaker 1: University in Nashville, Tennessee. It quickly became a magnet for

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Speaker 1: ambitious reproductive endercinologists eager to stake out their claim in

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Speaker 1: the new and fast expanding field of IVF. One of

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Speaker 1: those physicians was doctor George Hill, who spent his early

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Speaker 1: career at Vanderbilt before breaking off in the early nineteen

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Speaker 1: nineties to open his own practice, the Nashville Fertility Center,

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Speaker 1: a clinic that still exists today.

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Speaker 7: What I was cold when I arrived at Vanderbilt was

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Speaker 7: that Vanderbilt was the fork IVF program in the country

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Speaker 7: and that Vanderbilt had the fork IVF baby in the country.

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Speaker 7: So it was one of the early IVF programs. We

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Speaker 7: had patients coming from all over the country. No, we

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Speaker 7: had a pretty big drawing area here, so I'd been

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Speaker 7: very busy at Vanderbilt. It was a smooth transition going

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Speaker 7: in the product practice.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Hill wasn't the only IVF doctor to branch out

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Speaker 1: on his own after his time at Vanderbilt. Doctor Jime

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Speaker 1: Vasquez also followed a similar path. After graduating from medical

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Speaker 1: school in Chile, Vasquez moved to the US, where he

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Speaker 1: got his medical license. According to his bio, he held

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Speaker 1: faculty positions at Thomas Jefferson University and the University of

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin Madison before joining Vanderbilt's faculty in nineteen ninety one,

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Speaker 1: where he served as director of the Division of Reproductive

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Speaker 1: under Chronology and Infertility. In nineteen ninety five, he left

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Speaker 1: to open his own clinic, the Center for Reproductive Health

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Speaker 1: or CRCH. Let us help you make your dreams become

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Speaker 1: a reality by calling us at the Center for Reproductive Health.

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Speaker 1: Newspaper ads from the time showed doctor Vasquez recruiting staff

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Speaker 1: a receptionist who could juggle many activities simultaneously, lab techs

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Speaker 1: willing to work with weekends. He filed paperwork with the

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Speaker 1: state outlining a quote high volume infertility practice unquote with

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Speaker 1: its own operating rooms and lab. Vasquez was envisioning what

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Speaker 1: the future of IVF was going to look like and

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Speaker 1: planning accordingly. Doctor Vasquez declined to sit for an interview

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Speaker 1: with me, but I was able to find promotional videos

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Speaker 1: of him talking about the science of fertility, his clinics,

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Speaker 1: approach to treatment, and his own reasons for choosing this work,

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Speaker 1: which offers some insight.

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Speaker 8: The patient is my boss. Clinical science can allow me

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Speaker 8: to make a prediction about what treatments are more likely

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Speaker 8: to be successful. I give them all the options, and

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Speaker 8: I say, I think that this is more likely to

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Speaker 8: be successful. But I don't have a crystal ball. I mean,

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Speaker 8: the patient decides a different treatment, which try it. I

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Speaker 8: would not argue with the patient and try to force

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Speaker 8: it to go into a different direction. It is her

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Speaker 8: decision to make.

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Speaker 1: Even as he worked to build a modern IVF clinic,

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Speaker 1: Vazquez described his mission in personal terms, rooted in love, children,

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Speaker 1: and legacy.

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Speaker 8: When I see my kids, I'm amazed. That was a

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Speaker 8: gift straight from God and my wife, and I'm so

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Speaker 8: fortunate to have that. Not having that would make me

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Speaker 8: feel very empty. So probably I should find to help

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Speaker 8: capitals with infertility to have their family.

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Speaker 1: I was able to glean some information about the clinics

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Speaker 1: early years from federal records. Since nineteen ninety two, federal

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Speaker 1: law has required fertility clinics to report their outcomes to

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Speaker 1: the CDC and CRH first appeared in a nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: six report. By then, the clinic had already joined the

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Speaker 1: Society for Assisted Productive Technology, also known as SART, a

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Speaker 1: kind of trade group that works to establish and maintain

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Speaker 1: standards that members must follow. A few years later, doctor

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Speaker 1: Vasquez's laboratory earned accreditation from the College of American Pathologists CAP,

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Speaker 1: a private organization recognized by the federal government to ensure

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Speaker 1: compliance with national laboratory standards. By all appearances, doctor Vasquez

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Speaker 1: was making sure his new clinic would be at the

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Speaker 1: cutting edge of medicine, technology and care. It took some

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Speaker 1: time to build up the clinics clientele, but eventually it

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Speaker 1: found its rhythm as a smaller, more intimate operation, providing

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Speaker 1: around an average of one hundred IVF cycles for patients

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Speaker 1: a year. While it was the smallest clinic in Nashville.

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Speaker 1: This was framed as a selling point.

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Speaker 8: Our philosophy of care is to be a family and

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Speaker 8: to help your family to grow, and we want to

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Speaker 8: use clinical science to do that, but we want to

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Speaker 8: do it in a personal way.

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Speaker 1: The Center for Reproductive Health's website also boasted that the

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Speaker 1: clinic was responsible for the birth of more than two

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Speaker 1: thousand babies since its opening in the nineties. Patient testimonials

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Speaker 1: reinforce the message that new patients were in the right place.

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Speaker 9: I've always joked that doctor Vasquez no sperm and eggs

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Speaker 9: like no one else.

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Speaker 2: I know that sounds.

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Speaker 9: Terrible, but it's so true. He has always been so

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Speaker 9: warm and friendly.

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Speaker 5: Doctor Vasquaise was somebody who he sits down with you,

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Speaker 5: took time, answered questions, just approached it differently. He'll do

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Speaker 5: a lot of testing up front, but that testing helps

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Speaker 5: him figure out exactly what's right for you.

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Speaker 6: When the babies were born and came to see our

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Speaker 6: children and us and then nick you several times.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I don't think we would have gotten that

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Speaker 5: from one of the larger multi position centers.

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Speaker 1: This personal approach continued behind the scenes too. Doctor Vasquez's wife, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: managed the facility for two decades. The staff was described

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Speaker 1: as tight knit and many worked there for years. One woman,

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Speaker 1: a lab tech, stayed for well over a decade. Others,

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Speaker 1: though like in any small business, cycled through quickly. Over

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Speaker 1: the years, doctor Vasquez had employed other doctors, nurse practitioners,

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Speaker 1: and physicians' assistants, but there were also stretches where he

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Speaker 1: was the only doctor on site managing patient care. The

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Speaker 1: one constant at CeRh was doctor Vazquez himself. The clinic

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Speaker 1: was his baby and he was involved in all aspects

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Speaker 1: of its operations. But as doctor Penzius explained to me,

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Speaker 1: running an IVF clinic is a big job.

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Speaker 4: It's a very complicated circumstance. There are so many components

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Speaker 4: to a well run IVF program that it is complex.

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Speaker 4: It's doable, but it takes a good sized team with

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Speaker 4: a lot of experience to be able to pull it

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Speaker 4: off well.

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Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, Vasquez his wife retired due to health concerns,

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Speaker 1: and their daughter, Elena, came on to assist with this.

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Speaker 1: The clinic was going through some big changes and doctor

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Speaker 1: Vasquez needed some extra help on the patient side, so

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty he hired someone new, Doctor Hill, who

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Speaker 1: ran a competing IVF clinic less than a mile from

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Speaker 1: CRH heard talk of this new hire.

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Speaker 7: He had someone there that he called his fellow. I

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Speaker 7: don't know much about the person that he was calling

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Speaker 7: his fella. I mean, obviously we knew nothing about what

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Speaker 7: was going on over there.

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Speaker 2: There are two things in this world that I have

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Speaker 2: absolutely no doubt that I can do. So and take

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Speaker 2: your children.

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Speaker 10: Those are the two things that I'm like, got it.

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Speaker 2: I do remember in kindergarten, I was like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I gotta have a boyfriend, because you gotta have a

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Speaker 2: boyfriend to have a husband, and you gotta have a

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Speaker 2: husband to have a baby. I was like putting it

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Speaker 2: together at five and was like, Okay, I gotta start now.

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Speaker 10: I gotta start with a boyfriend now.

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Speaker 2: I remember that thought process because the end goal was

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Speaker 2: always a baby.

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Speaker 1: In pursuit of her lifelong dream. Sarah poured money into supplements, herbs,

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Speaker 1: and teas that promised miraculous results, but never delivered so

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Speaker 1: much as a positive pregnancy test. By early twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: after two years of trying, she's feeling burned out and

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Speaker 1: disillusioned by the trendy fertility hacks advertised on social media.

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Speaker 1: So when a coworker suggests she tried the Center for

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Speaker 1: Reproductive Health, she's eager to begin a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: trained medical professional she could trust. No more woo woo solutions,

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Speaker 1: just science data and someone qualified to guide her.

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Speaker 2: He was very nice, He was very friendly. He was sarcastic.

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Speaker 2: He cussed with me. I grew up with a dad

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Speaker 2: that is a sailor and I am the same way.

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Speaker 2: And it was like, okay, this guy he is. It

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Speaker 2: felt like a friend. It felt like I was sitting

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Speaker 2: down to talk to a friend.

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Speaker 1: Sarah isn't talking about doctor Vasquez. In fact, during her

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Speaker 1: entire time as a patient at SIERRH, she says she

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Speaker 1: never even met doctor Vasquez. Instead, she sees another provider,

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Speaker 1: doctor Ferrera Dyer, the man doctor Vasquez hired in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: significantly younger than doctor Vasquez, doctor Dyer had an easy going,

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Speaker 1: jocular demeanor, where Vasquez's bedside manner could be academic and

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Speaker 1: long winded. Dyer was funny and personable.

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Speaker 2: He was super friendly. He was super positive.

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Speaker 1: In their initial consultation, Sarah tells Dyer about her years

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Speaker 1: of trying to conceive and her uncertainty about whether or

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Speaker 1: not she's ovulating, and he seems receptive to her concerns.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my god, this is amazing.

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Speaker 2: Someone is finally listening to me. It felt like such relief.

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Speaker 2: And he spent a lot of time going over the

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Speaker 2: basics of how the body works, going over just stuff

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Speaker 2: that you're like, no one else.

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Speaker 10: Took the time to go over this.

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Speaker 1: Before turning to IVF, Sarah says, doctor Dyer recommends to

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Speaker 1: try intrauterine insemination or IUI. This is a procedure where

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Speaker 1: sperm is inserted inside the uterus right around ovulation, so

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Speaker 1: the timing has to be exact. I've done four iuis.

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Speaker 1: You strip half naked and lie on a bed with

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Speaker 1: your legs and stirrups. Then the medical provider inserts a

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Speaker 1: thin catheter into your uterus and deposits the sperm, giving

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Speaker 1: it essentially a head start on its journey to the egg.

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Speaker 1: It's not usually painful, but it's uncomfortable or at least

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Speaker 1: awkward for me personally. It was emotional and stressful, and

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Speaker 1: success rates are low. It could feel like I'm going

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Speaker 1: through all of this and is it even going to

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Speaker 1: work still. Iuis are often the first step in fertility

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Speaker 1: treatment because they are a lot faster and cheaper than IVF.

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Speaker 1: While doctor Vaska has handled the more complicated IVF cycles

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Speaker 1: at the clinic, Dyer did most of the iuis, and

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Speaker 1: in September of twenty twenty three, DIYer performed Sarah's first

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Speaker 1: IUI at the Center for Reproductive Health. The experience goes smoothly,

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Speaker 1: but she does not get pregnant.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's soul crushing. You just think, okay, great,

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Speaker 2: now what do we do? You spend twelve hours being mad,

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Speaker 2: and then you're kind of like, all right, they told

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Speaker 2: me the first one wouldn't work. You google the crap

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Speaker 2: out of it and you find out that it doesn't

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Speaker 2: work for a lot of people, and that a lot

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Speaker 2: of times people get pregnant on the second one or

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Speaker 2: the third one, and you're like, okay, we'll figure it

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Speaker 2: out financially. Now I know what to expect. This is

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Speaker 2: in September. We'll do another one in October. We'll do

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Speaker 2: another one in November. We were taking my husband's family

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Speaker 2: to Texas to Fort Worth for Christmas. We were renting

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Speaker 2: a house and we were going to go down there.

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Speaker 2: I had these grandiose plans. If either of those worked,

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Speaker 2: I was going to have pajamas mailed to the house rapped,

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Speaker 2: and one of them is going to be baby pajamas.

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Speaker 2: And like, I had this whole plan planned out.

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Speaker 1: But the rest of twenty twenty three does not go

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Speaker 1: as planned. On Sarah's next cycle visit in October, she

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Speaker 1: has a large cyst and she's prescribed birth control to

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Speaker 1: shrink it before continuing in November. She's hopeful about moving forward,

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Speaker 1: but when she goes in for her appointment, the normal

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Speaker 1: ultrasound tech is not there, and the woman who's supposed

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Speaker 1: to perform her exam seems confused.

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Speaker 2: She's like, Okay, I don't really know what I'm doing,

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Speaker 2: and I don't really know how to do ultrasounds. I'm

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Speaker 2: just a nurse, but they've got me back here. Then,

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Speaker 2: while the wind is inside of me, she goes, I,

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Speaker 2: do you think that's your ovary? I'm sorry, I don't,

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Speaker 2: are you You can't be talking to me. There's got

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Speaker 2: to be somebody else in the room because I don't

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Speaker 2: I don't know, do am I supposed to know what's

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Speaker 2: compying on a screen? And I was just like, this

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Speaker 2: is literally determining whether or not we move forward with

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Speaker 2: the next cycle, whether I have a sister or not.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna need you to know what my ovary

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Speaker 2: looks like.

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Speaker 1: Sarah complains to the front desk staff and another employee

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Speaker 1: does a repeat ultrasound, but it's not entirely clear what's

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Speaker 1: going on inside Sarah's body. She decides to cancel the cycle.

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Speaker 1: It's around this time that Sarah starts to question if

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Speaker 1: the clinic is functioning properly.

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Speaker 2: I was like, okay, this is not good. And since

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Speaker 2: we had been there, a bunch of the people the

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Speaker 2: front desk had gone. The girls at the front desk

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Speaker 2: would kind of be like, I don't know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Sarah and her husband are losing confidence, and they decide

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Speaker 1: the next IUI will be their last at CRH. If

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Speaker 1: it doesn't work, they'll move on to another clinic.

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Speaker 2: We entertained the idea of not going back at all,

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Speaker 2: but that would have delayed everything because you have to

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Speaker 2: do testing and you have to wait for the appointment

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Speaker 2: and you have to so it's like, we might as

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Speaker 2: well do one more and then in the interim be

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Speaker 2: looking for someone else, and that way, at least we're

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Speaker 2: not wasting a ton of time.

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Speaker 1: Sarah says. She also begins to have concerns about Dyer himself.

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Speaker 2: When I first met with Dyer, a thyroid was high.

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Speaker 2: TSH was high, and he prescribed the thyroid medicine. When

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Speaker 2: I went to pick that thyroid medicine up, it had

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Speaker 2: doctor Vasquez his name on it. And I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is weird, asked the front desk. They said, oh,

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Speaker 2: Vasquez just signs all the prescriptions. It's his account that

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Speaker 2: assigns all the prescriptions, so we just do it all

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Speaker 2: under him because he's owner of the planet. All right, fine, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Then all of the fertility drugs were in Vasquez's name

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Speaker 2: when I pick those up, and I ask again, and

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Speaker 2: at that point it was kind of like, okay, all right,

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Speaker 2: it's fine, it is what it is. But I had

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Speaker 2: definitely noticed it and thought it was weird.

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Speaker 1: Sarah decides, next time she's in the clinic she should

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Speaker 1: just check Dire's credentials.

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Speaker 2: I had told myself before that appointment with him, make

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Speaker 2: sure you look at the wall to make sure there's

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Speaker 2: a medical degree, because his name wasn't on any of

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Speaker 2: the meds and I was like, I need to make sure.

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Speaker 2: I just need to check that.

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Speaker 1: So at her next appointment, she looks around the exam

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Speaker 1: room and there it is on the wall, a framed

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Speaker 1: medical degree with Dire's name on it. It gives her

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Speaker 1: the confidence she needs to move forward with her second

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Speaker 1: IUI with him in February twenty twenty four. It doesn't work,

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Speaker 1: and so, as planned, she and her husband seek care elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: The following week, Sarah is sitting in an office of

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Speaker 1: a new fertility clinic. When she's asked about her previous provider.

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Speaker 2: She asked me who I was seeing, and I told

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Speaker 2: her doctor Dyer. She goes, you know he's not a

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Speaker 2: reproductive endocrinologist, right. It's a pretty small field, and I

393
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Speaker 2: know most of the people in a like a pretty

394
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Speaker 2: a big vicinity. I know at least of their names.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, you know, you leave that appointment.

396
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 2: You're just focused on the next step, You're focused on you.

397
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Speaker 1: But the comments linger, and so she decides to do

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Speaker 1: some research. If Dire isn't a reproductive endocrinologist, maybe he's

399
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Speaker 1: just a general practitioner. She looks Dire up on Google,

400
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Speaker 1: but finds nothing. Nothing on social media either. She tracks

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Speaker 1: down the website that lists licensed doctors in Tennessee, runs

402
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Speaker 1: his name through, and nothing comes up. She can't even

403
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Speaker 1: find his name on the Center for Reproductive Health's website.

404
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Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, this can't be this

405
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: hard to find, right, Like am I Just every other

406
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: website in Nashville has all the doctors listed. They're on

407
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Speaker 2: the door. So it's like, Okay, this is weird. There's

408
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: no mention of him with the board, there's no mention

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Speaker 2: of him with a license in the state of Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing Sarah wants answers. Over the next few weeks,

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Speaker 1: she keeps trying to get a hold of doctor Vazkaz

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Speaker 1: so he can explain what's going on.

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00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 2: I called office and I said, listen, something's going on.

414
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Speaker 2: I left a message. There's some questions about Dyer's qualifications.

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00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: No one calls her back. On Tuesday, April ninth, Sarah

416
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: tries calling the clinic once more.

417
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: It rang and rang and rang the front deskin pick

418
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: up and then it went to the emergency service and

419
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: she was like, I can't help you. I'm just here

420
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: in case of emergency. Call back later, she didn't know

421
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 2: what was going on.

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00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: A few days later, she comes across Sydney's news article

423
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Speaker 1: and learns that the Center for Reproductive Health had suddenly closed.

424
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: Unsure of what all this means, Sarah contacts news Channel five,

425
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Speaker 1: the same news outlet that broke the initial story about

426
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Speaker 1: crch's closure.

427
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Speaker 2: I knew that if one person had given up on

428
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 2: this journey because of anything that these idiots had said,

429
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 2: that they needed to know what was going on.

430
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: They run another segment about the clinic, this time focusing

431
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Speaker 1: on the questions swirling around Diyer's qualifications.

432
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Speaker 10: Stunning new allegations tonight against the Nashville fertility Clinic, now

433
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Speaker 10: being sued by the Tennessee Attorney General.

434
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Speaker 2: Tonight another bombshell, Why did the man who treated so

435
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Speaker 2: many of these women hold himself out to be a doctor?

436
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 1: Patients are already reeling from the Center for Reproductive Health

437
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: sudden closure. They've suffered canceled IVF cycles, lost money and time,

438
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: and nearly twelve hundred embryos are still behind locked doors. Now,

439
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: a new and devastating fear emerges had they been treated

440
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: by someone who wasn't a licensed doctor. After Sarah goes

441
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: to the press, she has lingering questions about if what

442
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: happened at CRH might be considered a crime, so she

443
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: files a complaint with the Metro Nashville Police and the

444
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: Special Victims Unit sets up a dedicated email address for

445
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 1: former patients to recount their experiences at the clinic. In

446
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: the wake of the news segment, as many as sixty

447
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: five families contact police, according to reporting by news Channel five.

448
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: For some, like Penny co, a thirty five year old

449
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: scientist who had been a patient at the clinic for

450
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: a year, the fear isn't just about the quality of

451
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: the medical care she received. It's also about feeling violated.

452
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: She had been treated by a person who she worried

453
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: might not have had the training or legal as authority

454
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: to do so. This man saw and performed procedures on

455
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: her half naked body.

456
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 11: I still feel kind of gross, I still feel fringing.

457
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 11: Even though I know it's not my fault or anything

458
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 11: I've done, but it happened to me. So I'm like, yeah,

459
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 11: I don't at anybody in my space. Anytime someone puts

460
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 11: their hand on my shoulder, I'm just like like inching

461
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 11: away and just like I just don't. After something like

462
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 11: that happens, you're like, if they can be deceiving, how

463
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 11: do you know somebody else is deceiving? Like it starts

464
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 11: to play my game. Unfortunately, there's so many emotions that

465
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 11: go on with that because I was sexually assaulted as

466
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 11: a child, so it kind of starts pulling back trauma

467
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 11: from younger ages.

468
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: Penny is sitting in her obgian's office reading an article

469
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: on her phone when she learns that Dyer had no

470
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: medical license.

471
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 11: I felt like I was going to pass out from

472
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 11: anxiety because I was like, there's no way this is real.

473
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 11: Like I starts really spiraling. I could fill my face

474
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 11: like get bright red. I can tell it was like

475
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 11: a panic attack.

476
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: During her time as a patient is, she had undergone

477
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: several EUIs with Dire. She had put her trust in

478
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: him and his training, and as part of the procedures,

479
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: he had touched her private areas and used medical equipment

480
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: inside her body, so when she learns he isn't a

481
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 1: licensed physician, she feels an overwhelming sense of betrayal. For Penny,

482
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: it's a pain that's horribly familiar if you've ever.

483
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 11: Been sexually assaulted. It puts you back into that category

484
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 11: again where you're just like, I don't want anybody touching me.

485
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 11: I don't want my own husband touching me. Like you

486
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 11: just feel disgusting, you feel violated, you feel manipulated, like

487
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 11: all of the emotions. You know at that point you're deceived.

488
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: Penny told me that because she was sexually abused as

489
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: a child, seeking fertility care as an adult had been challenging.

490
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: She found the EUIs, in which she had to take

491
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: off her clothes and lay still as dire inserted sperm

492
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: inside her mortifying.

493
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 11: I mean, I honestly had to the whole time I

494
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 11: had the procedure done, I laid back close my eyes

495
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 11: because I just didn't want to see. Your legs are up,

496
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 11: you're completely naked from the waist down. You feel the

497
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 11: doctor like kind of touching you, even with my own

498
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 11: husband in the room. I was like, I'm embarrassed, Like

499
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 11: I don't want him seeing me that way either. It's

500
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 11: just a different level of embarrassment.

501
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: Penny, Sarah and other women who saw doctor Dyer in

502
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: the clinic feel that he wasn't honest about his credentials

503
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: and presented himself as something he was not. This is

504
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: an accusation that Dyer denies in full.

505
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 10: If there is one sound bite that you use as

506
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 10: a part of this, it is everything that doctor Dyer

507
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 10: did was appropriate under all applicable laws and regulations.

508
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: That's Chanelle Atchison. When I first reached out to Dyer

509
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: for comment, he wouldn't speak with me, but Atchison, his

510
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: lawyer did. I eventually caught up with DIYer a few

511
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: months after this, and we'll hear from him later in

512
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: the show. But his attorney talked me through his position

513
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: and presented the case that he did nothing wrong.

514
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 10: First, I want to say that the fertility journey is

515
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 10: an extremely emotional, traumatic, difficult journey anyway in the best

516
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 10: of circumstances, and I can absolutely understand and empathize with

517
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 10: the trauma that these women are feeling.

518
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: I cannot imagine the heartache, and I want to be

519
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 3: clear that nothing I am saying negates that takes away

520
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: from that all of those feelings.

521
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 10: Are real and valid.

522
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 3: That said, nothing that doctor Dyer did was inappropriate. He

523
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: practiced the way that every single doctor that has ever

524
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: pursued a medical license in the United States has practice

525
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: which is under the purview of the license of another

526
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 3: doctor while he was pursuing his own.

527
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: Atchison told me that doctor Dyer was working under the

528
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: medical license of doctor Vazquez while he was seeking his

529
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: own license. She explained that Dyer, although an American himself,

530
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: attended and graduated from a medical school in England called

531
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: Saint Christopher's in two thousand and seven. Back in the States,

532
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: he began taking the medical licensing exams required to practice

533
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: medicine in the US and passed some but not all

534
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: of them.

535
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 10: Doctor Dyer passes first two licensing board exams, and then

536
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 10: his mother fell ill, and so he stopped everything to

537
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 10: take care of his mother. For a number of years,

538
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 10: everything for him took a backseat, and unfortunately she ended

539
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 10: up passing away, and then he started pursuing his own

540
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 10: career again.

541
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: Atchison said that in twenty twenty, thirteen years after Dyer

542
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: graduated from Meta school, he started working at the Center

543
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: for Reproductive Health as a fellow, believing it would help

544
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: him advance in his dreams of becoming a licensed doctor.

545
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: Although foreign medical school graduates like Dyer must complete a

546
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: formal three year residency to obtain a medical license in Tennessee,

547
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: something Dire had not done. Atchison says that Dyer was

548
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: told his work at CRH would set him up for

549
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: an alternative route to licensure.

550
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 3: He was called if he would work for two years

551
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 3: at the Center for Reproductive Health, then doctor Vasquez would

552
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 3: sponsor him towards this licensure issue, and that kept getting

553
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 3: bumped out, and the final thing that he was told

554
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 3: was four years, so he was just short of his

555
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 3: four years.

556
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: Atchison didn't provide any additional details about this fellowship, and

557
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: it's unclear if Azcuez was even authorized to offer such

558
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: an option. But beyond the fact that Dyer didn't pass

559
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: all the required tests or complete a residency, there are

560
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: also questions about the medical school he attended, Saint Christopher's

561
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: in Luton, England. Today the school no longer exists, and

562
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, during the time Dyer was

563
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: a student, it was the subject of critical reporting by

564
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: the BBC questioning its legitimacy. The UK's licensing body ultimately

565
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: chose not to recognize Saint Christopher's in Luton as an

566
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: authorized medical school because it couldn't provide proof it was

567
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: offering education up to the UK's standards. As a result,

568
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: graduates from that school cannot get licensed to practice medicine

569
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: in the UK. In the US, some states have barred

570
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: graduates of Saint Christopher's in Luton from obtaining a medical license. Texas,

571
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: for example, has the school on its most recent list

572
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: of fraudulent or sub standard institutions. It won't recognize. New York,

573
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: where I live, also hasn't accepted it in the past. Now,

574
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: what about Tennessee. The state has specific rules surrounding international

575
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: medical schools, and it's not entirely clear whether this school

576
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: would be accepted or not. I reached out to a

577
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: state spokesperson to clarify, but they declined to comment. Still,

578
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,800
Speaker 1: Dyer's lawyer points out to me that American authorities permitted

579
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: Dyer to take the US medical licensing exams, and claims

580
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: a number of his classmates from Saint Christopher's have successfully

581
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: gotten their medical licenses in the States and are currently practicing.

582
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: Atchison emphasized that Dyer was only working as a fellow

583
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: under doctor Vazquez's supervision. She says he didn't assess patients,

584
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: prescribe medication, make diagnoses, or design treatment plans. He only

585
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: carried out plans created by Vazquez. She says that Dyer

586
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: was upfront with patients about his role and that it

587
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: was entirely appropriate for Dyer to use the title doctor

588
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: as he had earned a medical degree.

589
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 3: Anytime that doctor Dyer would come into the room and

590
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: introduce himself to somebody, he would say, you know, my

591
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 3: name is doctor Dyer.

592
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 10: I am doctor Vasquez, his extern or his fellow.

593
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 3: I practice under the supervision of doctor Vasquez.

594
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 10: Doctor Dyer's white lab coat said fellow on it.

595
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 3: You know, it was always made very clear that doctor

596
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 3: Vasquez was the one making the decisions. I understand that

597
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 3: there is perhaps a propensity to see a white coat

598
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 3: and say that's.

599
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 10: The person making the decisions, but that's not, in fact

600
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 10: the case.

601
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: In Atchison's telling, doctor Dyer is not a villain in

602
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: this story. He's another person failed by doctor Vasquez. She

603
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: said that the fellowship arrangement benefited Vasquez because he didn't

604
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: have to pay dire a doctor's salary.

605
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 3: Doctor Dyer was paid peanuts for his time there. The

606
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: benefit to doctor Vasquez was cheap labor. Essentially, doctor Vasquez

607
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: sort of left a trail of victims. You know, I

608
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 3: absolutely understand that. And primary among that is the women

609
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 3: who were left kind of high and dry, and that

610
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 3: you know, this is trauma on top of trauma. Like

611
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 3: I get that doctor Dyer is another victim.

612
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: I asked doctor Vazquez's attorney about these allegations, but haven't

613
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: received a response. Atchison told me that Dyer's life has

614
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 1: been ruined by the news coverage around this case.

615
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: His life has been taken away from him because of

616
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 3: these news stories.

617
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 10: The torches and pitchforks are very much out.

618
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: He's now suing news Channel five for publishing and broadcasting

619
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: allegedly false and defamatory statements about him, namely claiming he

620
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: is not a doctor when he holds an MD, and

621
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: implying he was acting illegally or improperly. News Channel five

622
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 1: is standing by its reporting. In a court filing, their

623
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: lawyers wrote that the news segment quote did not portray

624
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: plaintiff in a false light, let alone one that would

625
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: be highly af fec to a reasonable person. I can't

626
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: confirm if Dyer did accurately represent himself as a fellow

627
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: to every patient he met with, as he claims. I

628
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: was able to identify two patients that said they knew

629
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: he was a fellow at the time, but Penny doesn't

630
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: recall Dyer identifying himself as anything other than doctor. She

631
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: believed he was a licensed doctor in the state of Tennessee.

632
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: More so, she believed he was her doctor. I read

633
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: through some of her portal messages from the clinic, and

634
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: Penny pointed out to me what she thought was a

635
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: telling back and forth. During one of her IUI cycles,

636
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: a staff member reached out to her to tell her

637
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: that her estrogen was higher than expected, and then wrote, quote,

638
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: I have doctor Dyer reviewing your chart and we'll get

639
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: back to you with his thoughts on moving forward or not.

640
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: Later they added, Okay, he says, let's go, but he

641
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: only wants you to take one clomied tablet a day

642
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: instead of two. I read through portal messages of other

643
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: patients too, and saw Dyer refer to in the same

644
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: way as if he was a doctor giving medical guidance.

645
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: Perhaps Dyer was consulting with doctor Vasquez on patient care,

646
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: as Atchison says, but this wasn't clear to Penny or

647
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: some others I spoke with, like Sarah.

648
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: I never once heard the word fella ever being mentioned.

649
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: I never once heard anything other than I'm doctor Dyer

650
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 2: and I'm going to get you pregnant.

651
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: That's it. Penny and Sarah both told me they hoped

652
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: that doctor Dyer and doctor Vasquez would face some sort

653
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: of professional or criminal repercussions. Like a number of other patients.

654
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: They had both filed police reports about Dyer's actions and

655
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: complaints with the Tennessee Department of Health. Five months after

656
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: they reached out to authorities, they finally got some news.

657
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: Here's Penny, we got that whole.

658
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 6: We're sorry to inform you, and you know, honestly, I've

659
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 6: gotten more sympathy from losing on a bottle cap, you know,

660
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 6: opening one of those bottle caps. Sorry, you're a loser,

661
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 6: like you didn't win. That's kind of what it felt like.

662
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 1: Penny received a letter from the District Attorney's office explaining

663
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: that while Dyer may have violated ethical standards, it did

664
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: not appear he had broken the law. The DA had

665
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: considered a rarely used sexual assault charge called rape by fraud,

666
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: but found the evidence didn't meet the law's criteria. I

667
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: had never heard of this and looked it up. The

668
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 1: charge is defined as unlawful sexual penetration of a victim

669
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: accomplished by fraud. When I spoke with the assistant DA,

670
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: she explains that the act would have to be done

671
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: for sexual gratification, something they said there was no evidence

672
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: of here. A second letter from the Department of Health

673
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: arrived shortly after, stating that its investigation into Dyer had

674
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: been closed with no further action. The letter states there

675
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: was quote not evidence to conclude that for rare dire

676
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: practice medicine in Tennessee without a license. Under Tennessee law,

677
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: licensed doctors like doctor Vasquez are free to delegate what

678
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: they consider to be routine technical tasks to non licensed

679
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: employees like dire As far as the State of Tennessee

680
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: saw it, that's what doctor Vasquez had done.

681
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 6: So I just leave you with a bunch of questions.

682
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: In the end, Penny, like a number of patients I

683
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: spoke with, was confused about why a person without a

684
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: medical license would be allowed to perform an IUI, a

685
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 1: procedure that is precise, time sensitive, and takes place inside

686
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: the uterus. In many other states, iuis must be performed

687
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: by a licensed clinician, typically a physician, but sometimes a

688
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: physician's assistant or nurse practitioner. But when one former CRCH

689
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 1: patient reached out to the District Attorney's office to ask

690
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: about this, she says they told her it would be

691
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: legal in Tennessee for a janitor to perform an EUI

692
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: if a doctor delegated it. I'm not sure this is

693
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: quite correct. From my read of the Tennessee Board of

694
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's delegation policy, it seems like handing off iuis

695
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: to an untrained janitor would indeed be a violation of

696
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: the rule. Either way, Penny is troubled by the DA's response, So.

697
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 6: Like, what kind of example is that? Setting moving forward

698
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 6: for other doctors, but stopping other doctors from doing that

699
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 6: in the future.

700
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: The whole response by the state left the patients feeling

701
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: dismissed and gas lit.

702
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: A group of extremely educated women and their spouses did

703
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: not misunderstand anything. We are being treated like we're a

704
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: bunch of dumb girls who don't know how to read

705
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 2: and that's unfair and it's wrong. We know exactly what

706
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 2: was going on. It was presented to us exactly as

707
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: we've said. He was our doctor. He was the only

708
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 2: person that was giving us treatment. And it feels terrible

709
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: to be told that we're a bunch of dumb girls

710
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: that don't know better. We're not stupid.

711
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: Next time on What Happened in Nashville. After months of

712
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: little news and growing panic, the state finally starts to

713
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: inventory what's inside the tanks and the results are deeply troubling.

714
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 10: They're talking about women and receiving the wrong embryos.

715
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 2: And then I get this letter that says we have

716
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: ten and we're only supposed to have eight.

717
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 7: At that point, I like, I didn't.

718
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 2: Know how else I was going to hit more rock bottom.

719
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 10: I don't trust the state adency to haable my healthcare.

720
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 6: We would just never accept this in other areas of medicine.

721
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: What Happened in Nashville is a production of School of

722
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,959
Speaker 1: Humans and iHeart Podcasts, written, reported, and hosted by me

723
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 1: Melissa Chelson. Our producer is Etily's Perez. Our senior producer

724
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: is Amelia Brock, with additional production by Emily Seiner and

725
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: Carl Catle. Theme song by Jesse Nice Swanger. Sound design,

726
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: scoring and mixing by Jeremy Thal and Jesse Nye Swanger.

727
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: Fact checking by Savannah Huglee and Austin Thompson. Our production

728
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: manager is Daisy Church. Executive producers are Jason English, Virginia Prescott,

729
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If you're enjoying the show,

730
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: tell everyone you know and don't forget to leave a

731
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: rating in your favorite podcast app