1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Tell me more about what the lake looked like. 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 2: It reminded me of glass, especially when it was so still. 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: Now I never went from one side to the other, 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 2: just because we weren't allowed. But before I became a maiden, 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: there was a floating dock out there, and I went 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: swimming from the floating dock and we would jump off 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 2: and see who could grab the most sludge from the 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 2: bottom and bring it up, as kids do. I remember 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 2: sitting at Alamoth and there were decks we were right 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: up against the lake, and I'd go out there in 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: the morning sometimes and the lake would just look like glass. 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: Sometimes you'd hear a beaver slap his tail or, you'd 13 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: see ducks swimming, you'd see all the mys rising up 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: with the sunrise coming up over it, and then you'd 15 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 2: hear the loon call. It was a very beautiful, peaceful place. 16 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: Sounds like it. 17 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: During the winter it would completely freeze over, so it 18 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: was just. 19 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 3: This huge vast snow and ice, and then come springtime 20 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 3: you'd start to hear the ice breaking up and this 21 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: cracking sound almost like trees falling, that would get really loud. 22 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: It would just echo through all the trees. As you know, 23 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 2: the winters in Minnesota can be freezing, so I loved 24 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: it when I could hear the ice starting to crack 25 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: and you could see everything was melting, you new spring 26 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 2: was right around the corner. 27 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: At first, adjusting to being a maiden was a scary, 28 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: lonely prospect, filled with shame and fear. But as the 29 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: years blew by, Lindsay started feeling differently about it, and 30 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: she started feeling differently about Victor. It's hard to imagine 31 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: how that shift would happen, But then I think about 32 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: how people have this ability to adapt and cope, to 33 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: find the light in the corners of a dark room, 34 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: and how after years of sinking into that darkness, you 35 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: might appreciate those folds of light. When Lindsay was a teenager, 36 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: Victor had the Maidens read Paradise Lost, John Milton's epic 37 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: poem about Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden. 38 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: It's kind of surprising and that the story actually follows 39 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: Satan as the protagonist. The story often unfolds through his eyes, 40 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: and basically Satan comes up with a scheme to tempt 41 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: Adam and Eve into sin. Satan convinces Eve to eat 42 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, 43 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: which is forbidden. Then God banishes them from their paradise. 44 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: Paradise Lost is kind of it's a book about the 45 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 2: fall of Adam and Eve and how our world became cursed. 46 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 2: It was just weeks of us going to the carriage 47 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: house and we'd make food and a fire, and we'd 48 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 2: play music and we'd read the book. 49 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: Paradise Lost is this mysterious book. It's full of hidden meaning. 50 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: But Victor used it in a very literal way. His 51 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: point was simple, look at how great this paradise is. 52 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: If you fall from grace, you'll miss out. He asked 53 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: the maidens to imagine their own version of paradise and 54 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: pushed that fantastical promise one day they'd get their own planet, 55 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: a place they could design themselves. 56 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: So, you know, we were all talking about what we 57 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 2: wanted them to look like, and how Victor would be 58 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 2: able to come visit all of us, and how great 59 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: it would be because of our dedication to in this life, 60 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 2: to him and to the Church. 61 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: What did you imagine your little heaven would be like 62 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: or what would be there? How would you spend your 63 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: time there? 64 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 2: Oh, gosh, I wanted my heaven to look like a 65 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 2: huge treehouse, but like I wanted it to be in 66 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: the jungle, and I wanted, you know, the if you're 67 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: trying to get from one cliff to another and they 68 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: have those swinging bridges, tons of those through the trees 69 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: and just treehouses connecting all to one another with monkeys 70 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: and flowers and streams and what are That's kind of 71 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 2: how my picture in might Heaven looking. 72 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: Like that sounds like a fun place to be. 73 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. He talked about how we'd be able to basically 74 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: just fly on over to each other's almost like stars. 75 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 2: I would just be able to fly over to one 76 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: another and visit each other. And it was definitely a 77 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 2: season of for me at least, coming together and really 78 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: bonding with the maidens and sometimes a lot of fun, 79 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: lots of laughs. And I remember in those times thinking like, gosh, 80 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: like how lucky am I out of all the people 81 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: in the church, that He's spending time with the ten 82 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: of us. 83 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: Lindsay remembers when she was assigned to light the lantern 84 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: on the bridge by the pond, the one they kept 85 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: lit so Jesus could find them when he returned to 86 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: bring them to Heaven. 87 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: I remember thinking that lighting the lantern one night with 88 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: one of the maidens walking up, like, can you believe 89 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: out of all the people in the entire world, like 90 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: we are the ones out of all the girls. And 91 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 2: I remember saying, do you think that there's life on 92 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: another planet? And maybe they have their own set of 93 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 2: maidens over there? Like what would they be called? You know, 94 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: like just thinking maybe there was another pocket on somewhere else, 95 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 2: like way across the universe, ten girls who were dedicated 96 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 2: to living their life for Christ. And I was like, 97 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: I'll still be eighty years old walking with my cane 98 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: through the snow to light the lantern. 99 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: Was Sometimes Lindsay felt like she was in the garden 100 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: of Eden and she could stay in that garden forever. 101 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: All she had to do was resist eating the apple 102 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: from her cocoa punch. In iHeart Podcasts, This is the 103 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: Turning River Road, I'm Alan Lance Lesser and I. 104 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 4: America Lance Part five Paradise Lost in the Past, Lindsay 105 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 4: got in trouble for all kinds of things, like when 106 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 4: Victor thought she smiled too much and took her instruments 107 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 4: away for a week. Sometimes it felt like no one 108 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 4: had her back. The maidens reported on each other, and 109 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 4: she even got yelled at for waking up late. But 110 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 4: over time, Lindsay grew more at home with the maidens, 111 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 4: especially when River Road decided to sell the Shepherd's Camp 112 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 4: their headquarters. Selling the camp made them millions of dollars, 113 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 4: which gave them a financial boost. Victor moved to the 114 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 4: maidens to a farmhouse at maiden Love, River Roads dairy farm. 115 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 4: This meant they saw less of Victor. From Victor and 116 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 4: the Shepherd's Camp, Lindsay didn't feel so watched. The space 117 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 4: allowed the maidens to find each other. River Road had 118 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 4: this little pottery business where the maidens would make dinnerware 119 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 4: and cups and mugs and vases and wine coolers and 120 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 4: even sinks. Everyone had a roll, like one maiden who 121 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 4: was really good at glazing, one maiden really good at carving. 122 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 4: Then some of the adults in the fellowship would take 123 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 4: the pottery and sell it at shows and pop up shops. 124 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 4: Lindsay loved it late nights at the shop with the 125 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 4: maidens singing while they worked, and when they were done 126 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 4: they crawled into bed. At the farmhouse, the walls slanted 127 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 4: down where the beds were, so you know, if you 128 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 4: sat up straight, you may hit your head. We lay 129 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 4: awake in bed, and I was coming up with tons 130 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 4: of different stories, little funny stories to make them laugh, 131 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 4: because because there was so much hardness to our life. 132 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 2: In some ways, it's sweet that you were telling them stories. 133 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 4: When you're one of the two youngest, you'd think that 134 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 4: it would be like the oldest maiden telling stories to 135 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 4: the younger girls, or something that seems like the real 136 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 4: Lindsay coming out. 137 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, those years I started blossoming more. I mean, I 138 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 2: still got reproved all the time and yelled at but 139 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: there were moments of I think the real me trying 140 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 2: to come out and shine. 141 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 4: Lindsay was growing up, moving from middle school awkwardness to 142 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 4: a teenager with ideas and creativity to share, and the 143 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 4: maidens were growing too. Instead of being pitted against each other, 144 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 4: they were becoming true sisters to each other. They were 145 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 4: Lindsay's family. 146 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: Now. 147 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 4: She went by Lera, the name Victor gave her when 148 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 4: he put her in charge of the music, and she 149 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 4: flourished in the role. Victor gave her a tiny Panasonic 150 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 4: tape recorder she could use for her songwriting, and once 151 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 4: the Maidens worked up the songs. They recorded them for 152 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,119 Speaker 4: real and mixed them and made CDs for the fellowship. 153 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: Lisa and Anna did some harmonies. Sometimes Nicole would do 154 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: some harmonies. If you hear the flute, that was nicky. 155 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 2: Katrina did the drums, Sarah played the bass. 156 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 5: Drug clost Guy Saver, holding your. 157 00:10:52,240 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 2: See you, the bond that the Maidens shared, it was deep, 158 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: it was real. It was beautiful what we had in 159 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 2: the midst of such terrific circumstances. 160 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 4: In Lindsay's mind, those were beautiful years. Two thousand and five, 161 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 4: two thousand and six, two thousand and seven. Even Victor 162 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 4: seemed more at rest. 163 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 2: And he had a baby grand piano there and we 164 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: would just sit there and play music, and I remember 165 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: figuring out on my guitar and just how happy he 166 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: would be. He'd be so happy and praising you, and 167 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: when he smiled, he had those smile lines, and it 168 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: would just make you feel warm and really good and 169 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: that you were doing really well. He was very like 170 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 2: playful in some way, wanting to hear your thoughts and 171 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 2: your ideas, and when he wasn't around, I would miss 172 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: that feeling of the praise and almost feeling like I 173 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: was finally being heard and valued in a way. 174 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 4: Often, a couple of maidens walked Victor to where he 175 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 4: slept at the end of the night, then they'd return 176 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 4: with a request. One maiden would be asked to return 177 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 4: to Victor alone. 178 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 2: And we all knew what was going on. Nobody talked 179 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: about it. But when somebody would come back and say, oh, 180 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: you know, Victor wants to see you, and it's eleven 181 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: at night or something, you knew what was going to happen. 182 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: And how often it happened honestly depended on how Victor 183 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: thought you were doing at the time spiritually, maybe how 184 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 2: you looked physically, so it could happen as much as, gosh, 185 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: seven ten times a month to maybe once a month, 186 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 2: you know, depending on how you were feeling. For ten years, 187 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 2: Lindsay says, Victor's right hand woman, Jan gave the maidens 188 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: two books, both about relationships and sex. One of them 189 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: included graphic how to instructions on sexual positions and how 190 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: to please your partner. Lindsay thinks Victor wanted them to 191 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: have these. I was still very awkward with him, and 192 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 2: it got easier over time. That first time was so 193 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: hard and definitely the ones after that, but they got 194 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: easier and it wasn't you know, physically, it didn't hurt 195 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: as much. I think, having that mindset of you know, 196 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 2: it's God's love for me, it was It's like hard 197 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 2: to say because it's so sickening, you know, and I 198 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 2: think I don't know when it was withheld or when 199 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: you knew like he wasn't happy with you, or you 200 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: could tell he was giving other maidens special attention. It 201 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: made me feel really bad about myself of what I 202 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: was doing wrong and why I wasn't being picked more 203 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: or was God upset with me for something? And then 204 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 2: being with him in that way it felt like God 205 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: did love me, like he was showing his love through 206 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 2: Victor towards me. I would say in the beginning, it 207 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: wasn't something that I craved. It wasn't like, oh, gosh, 208 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: I hope he chooses me tonight for me to feel 209 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 2: fully comfortable and even like comfortable with my body. It 210 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: took years later on it definitely almost became a privilege 211 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: to take care of him in that way. Makes me 212 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: feel really awful to say, because it's really hard, you know, 213 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: like thinking back on those years, like why I mean, 214 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: why did I think that way? Why did I allow 215 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 2: myself to get so sucked in by this man and 216 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: thinking to the point that if I died for him, 217 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: that would be the greatest honor. There was a season 218 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: where I was assigned to take care of Victor, like 219 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: wake him up in the morning and make him breakfast, 220 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: help him organize his day. And I think I was 221 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: on that duty for about ten months, and I remember 222 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 2: hardly getting in trouble during that time. I remember just 223 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 2: being almost like so grateful to him that he would 224 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: choose me to have this time with him, and to 225 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: get to even like know him better, to be able 226 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: to work in the cabin with him in this intimate setting. 227 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: I eventually thought I did love him, like truly loved 228 00:15:48,960 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: him and would do anything for him. 229 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: In her teens, Lindsay actually felt she was in love 230 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: with Victor, and she has a record of this dynamic. 231 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: She wrote about her love for Victor in a series 232 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: of letters to him. The pages and pages she shared 233 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: with us span years of her life. Starting at age fifteen. 234 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: She wrote in pencil on simple lined notebook paper, the 235 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: kind you'd see in school. As I look through the 236 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: letters now I can't help but notice how much Lindsay 237 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: seems like she's trying to prove her love to Victor, 238 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: like she's desperate to have him believe her. On one hand, 239 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: she's read reading these letters out of fear. By this point, 240 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: she's been conditioned to behave and say things to avoid 241 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: Victor's angry side. On the other hand, Lindsay has genuine 242 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: feelings of warmth and admiration for him. That's something that's 243 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: really common for kids who are being sexually abused. They 244 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: often feel intense affection toward the perpetrator. They might even 245 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: be convinced they're in love. Then later in life, when 246 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: they look back, it can be hard to make sense 247 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: of The letters Lindsay wrote are filled with religious language. 248 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: She talks about a relationship with Jesus Christ getting ready 249 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: for his return, but they also feel like love letters. 250 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: The over the top, mosty type of writing you'd expect 251 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: from two teenagers who just fell in love. And that's 252 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: what Victor said the relationship was. He said he was 253 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: her first love. In one letter, she writes, quote, thank 254 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: you for all the times you loved me when I 255 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: wasn't even worth loving. You've been a father, mother, and brother, 256 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 1: a teacher, a shepherd, a friend, a covering, a watcher, 257 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: someone who's ready to listen, the lover of my soul, 258 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: a leader, somebody who's not afraid to reprove and encourage 259 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: and correct forgiving, showing mercy and grace. Not the height, depth, length, 260 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 1: or breadth could contain all the love that you have 261 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: poured of yourself into me. In the same letter, she 262 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: says she's cried so much her shirt is soaked, her 263 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: eyes bloodshot, with a pile of tissues next to her. 264 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: Then she crosses out the word pile and writes mountain. 265 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: She says the tears come from thankfulness and love for him. 266 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: She signs the letter hidden in This Love with You Lera, 267 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: the name Victor had given her at the bottom of 268 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: the page. It looks like she's been practicing writing her 269 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: new name and his two. She writes your lira, your lira, lira, 270 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: and Victor's name four times, like what a school age 271 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: kid would doodle about her childhood crush. Sometimes, when she 272 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: was reproved a lot, she says, she would seek out 273 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: sex with him. She wanted him to pick her for 274 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: the night. She wanted to feel desired to get rid 275 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: of the worthlessness and ugliness. 276 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 2: She felt. 277 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: She might write something is on my heart that I 278 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: want to talk to you about if you have time 279 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: to fellowship Fellowship. Because she didn't want to spell it out, 280 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: she wrote him once I love you, I love you, 281 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: I love you, and underlined the last one. Victor left 282 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: her messages too, like good morning, my dear, please wake 283 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: me at six am in his love, or a note 284 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: from Victor on paper printed with sunfly to my beloved 285 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: Lindsay twined together my darling Lindsay of two one flesh, 286 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: the great mystery. I love you, Victor and Victor recorded 287 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: himself on that tape recorder, the tool he gave her 288 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: to encourage her songwriting. The activities she cherished the most. 289 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: Oh Leah, make a joyful noise unto the Lord God, 290 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 2: bless you dear. 291 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: After a night of praying with Victor and the maidens, 292 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: Lindsay wrote a song before bed. 293 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: So it goes. Sometimes the days seem so long, and 294 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 2: my heart starts aching within, of missing you, of missing you. 295 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 2: Driving away from your place, the tears started rolling down 296 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: my face from missing you, from missing you. Soon we'll 297 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 2: be together forever. Until then, nothing can sever the chords 298 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 2: of love that entwine you and me, always coming back 299 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 2: one day until then, this is what I'll say, that 300 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: I'm in the fight and in love with you, that 301 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 2: us victor. Part of it makes me sick reading that, ugh, 302 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 2: trying to think of how, Let's see, this was in 303 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 2: two thousand and four, so I would have been seventeen. 304 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: And why do you think you wrote that? Do you 305 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: think you felt that way at the time, or that 306 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: you were trying to appease him or a bit of both. 307 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 2: I think at the time I definitely felt that way. 308 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 2: I mean, it's crazy you hear about this stuff in 309 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 2: like domestic violence situations where people get so conditioned to 310 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 2: living that way and then the person will abuse them 311 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 2: and then they'll leave and then they'll say no, but 312 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 2: I really love you and I won't do that again, 313 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 2: and blah blah blah they'll go back and it's this 314 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 2: revolving door. And I think I had been so conditioned 315 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 2: at that time to want his love so badly and 316 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 2: want to be in good graces with him, because I 317 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 2: felt like that's how I was going to get to heaven. 318 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 2: The heaven in my mind, wasn't about God. It was 319 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 2: all about being with Victor for all eternity, which just 320 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 2: shows me now how screwed up that totally is that 321 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,479 Speaker 2: Victor made himself to be this godlike figure. 322 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 4: Lindsay was finally at peace with her life and the 323 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 4: way it had been planned for her, but her best 324 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 4: friend Jess felt something else. Jess, the youngest maiden with 325 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 4: red hair and a giant smile, the one person Lindsay 326 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 4: could be herself with. Lindsay didn't know it, but Jess 327 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 4: was ill at ease. We didn't get to interview Jess, 328 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 4: but we do have some recordings that were made of 329 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 4: her later on. They're a little grainy and hard to hear, 330 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 4: but she explains what happened. You can feel the dread 331 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 4: in her voice. 332 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 3: At that point. 333 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: I was nineteen years old and extremely uncomfortable living the 334 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: way we were stock. 335 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 2: I didn't want to. 336 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 4: Jess as talking about how uncomfortable she was living there 337 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 4: at nineteen, and that she didn't want to be a 338 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 4: maiden with Victor anymore. 339 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: I didn't want to be with Victor. 340 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 4: Jess had actually tried to escape once years before, back 341 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 4: when she was middle school aged. She ran into the 342 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 4: woods behind the shepherd's camp. She thought she'd walk until 343 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 4: she hit Pokola Road and get to Finnlassen to find 344 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 4: a phone, but once she was in the woods, she 345 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 4: got scared. Then Victor found her. He yelled at her 346 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 4: to come back, and for some reason she did. She 347 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,479 Speaker 4: turned around and walked back to him, and appter by 348 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 4: the hair and dragged her inside. She never tried to 349 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 4: escape again. But years later, in two thousand and eight, 350 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 4: Jess couldn't take it anymore. She was nineteen years old 351 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 4: and had been a maiden for seven years. Victor said, 352 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 4: I'm going to ask you one more time. Is this 353 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 4: what you want to do? Here's one last chance to leave, 354 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 4: and Jess finally got up the courage to say, yes, 355 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 4: I want to leave. She was the only maiden who did. 356 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 4: She said she wanted a family of her own. 357 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to get married and have a life of my. 358 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 4: Own, and so she did. Because that's the trick with cults. 359 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,719 Speaker 4: Most of the time, you can leave, you do have 360 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 4: a choice. The point is that you're made to feel 361 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 4: that you don't, and Jess had reached the point where 362 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 4: she couldn't take it anymore. Jess would leave the maidens, 363 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 4: but not the Fellowship. She told Victor she'd get married instead, 364 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 4: the one other path a young woman in River Road 365 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 4: could take. So Victor planned it all down to the 366 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 4: man she would be with. Jess says it was almost 367 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 4: like an arranged marriage. She says the guy Victor chose 368 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 4: was strict and loyal to him, so he knew he 369 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 4: would keep her in line. Victor had told her no 370 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 4: hard feelings, but Jess said there were definitely hard feelings. 371 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 4: She felt it from Victor and from all of Alamoth, 372 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 4: all the maidens. 373 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 3: You know. 374 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 2: Victor announced us that she was leaving and that she 375 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 2: was going to be getting married. That was the plan 376 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 2: to a young man in the church. And oh man, 377 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 2: I was so mad at her for leaving. 378 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 4: Lindsay was in shock. Jess wasn't just leaving Victor. Jess 379 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 4: was leaving her. 380 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: Ugh. 381 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 2: I remember hating her for it because in the early 382 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 2: years we had talked to maybe running away. Never knew 383 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 2: how we knew we'd get in trouble, somebody would find us, 384 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 2: and we're back right where we started. And I think 385 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 2: those memories of us, you know, when we were twelve 386 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 2: or fourteen thirteen, talking about running away, like just so 387 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 2: many memories came back good ones, bad ones, and I 388 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 2: just kept thinking, Wow, Like she got out, she did it, 389 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: she left, and I think I felt so stuck. I 390 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: didn't know how to get the guts to do something 391 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 2: like that, and I was so mad at her, but 392 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 2: I was also really happy for her. I thought she 393 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 2: would lose her place among the maidens in heaven, and 394 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: that was a big fear of mine too, And I 395 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 2: was like, I am definitely staying a maiden, and I'm 396 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 2: going to stay in my commitments. 397 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 4: Seeing just leave and all the reactions only made Lindsay 398 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 4: cling to her commitments more. She didn't want to lose 399 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 4: her status in the next life. The idea of not 400 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 4: being with the other maidens in heaven terrified her. 401 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 2: But things slowly started just going very differently. 402 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: Jess left in two thousand and eight, soon after some 403 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: strange news hit members of River Road Fellowship. A woman 404 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: in River Road contacted the police. She said that Victor 405 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: had coerced her to sleep with him. He told her 406 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,959 Speaker 1: it was her responsibility as a woman in the church 407 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: to take care of him sexually, and the woman said 408 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: she wasn't the only one. She told police. Victor met 409 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: with many of the adult married women privately in his lodge, 410 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: and on many of those occasions he had sex with them. 411 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: Now this secret was out in the open, not just 412 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: to River Road but to outsiders, and with the potential 413 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: for a gossip swirling, Victor told the maidens himself. He 414 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: said he'd had sex with some of the married women 415 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: in the group. 416 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 2: There was just something that didn't sit right with me 417 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: about him sleeping with the married women, Like it just 418 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: felt wrong. I think it was because they were married. 419 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: I was like, ah, this just does not feel right. 420 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: Even though Victor chastised his followers every day, it was 421 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: the only time Lindsay remembers him saying he'd made a mistake. 422 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: He said the temptation had been too big. He referenced 423 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: the Bible to make excuses. He compared what he did 424 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: to some of King David's transgressions, and he likened people 425 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: coming after him to persecution. Victor came up with a 426 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: short phrase that became a catch all excuse for his 427 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: actions that echoed across River Road. 428 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 2: Everything was the blood of the Lamb covers it all. 429 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 2: The blood of the Lamb covers it all. Which, yes, 430 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 2: Jesus Christ died for our sins. Absolutely but you can't 431 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 2: go around and sleep with other men's wives and just 432 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: think that the blood of the Lamb is gonna cover 433 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: your sins and you not change, truly repent and change 434 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 2: your behavior. 435 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: But Victor didn't just have his followers approval to worry about. 436 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: The police were involved now, and that meant he could 437 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: face legal trouble because in Minnesota it's a felony for 438 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: clergy to have sex with people they're guiding spiritually. 439 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 2: But he shared it in a way that made you 440 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 2: feel bad for him, getting you to think like, oh, 441 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 2: woe was me and the burden that's going to be 442 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: on me? And are you ready to stay in your 443 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 2: commitments and defend me and defend your faith if things 444 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 2: go crazy? And at that time, yes, I was. I 445 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 2: was totally in, totally committed, ready to take a bullet 446 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 2: for him if needed. 447 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 4: The news about Victor's extramarital affairs was only the first 448 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 4: in a series of shifts in River Road Fellowship and 449 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 4: in Lindsay's life, because it was around this time that 450 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 4: another legal issue came up. One of the ten maidens 451 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 4: was originally from Brazil. She had some visa issues, so 452 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 4: she actually had to move back down to Brazil for 453 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 4: a while, but maidens couldn't live alone. They always needed 454 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 4: a partner, that was the rule, So the rest of 455 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 4: the maidens took turns living with her in Brazil until 456 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 4: the visa could be sorted. Lindsay was one of the 457 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 4: first to volunteer. She would move to Brazil for six 458 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 4: months to stay at the maiden's side. Suddenly, Lindsay found 459 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 4: herself on a plane to Brazil, her first trip alone 460 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 4: in her life. 461 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 2: I remember being so awkward because I brought my guitar 462 00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 2: with me and I had to carry it on in 463 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 2: People We're like saying nice things like, oh, you're gonna 464 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: play something. Oh my gosh. I remember being just so 465 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 2: self conscious. People probably thought I was a freak. I 466 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 2: just probably had no social skills really because I hadn't 467 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 2: been around I mean, back then I would have called 468 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 2: them unbelievers, you know, but I hadn't been around people 469 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 2: outside of the camp for so long. 470 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 4: When Lindsay got in the plane, she saw something she 471 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 4: never had before, screens on the backs of seats. 472 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 2: The last time I flew was I think nineteen ninety seven, 473 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: and now it's two thousand and nine. September one, two 474 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 2: thousand and nine. So I sat down, and I remember 475 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 2: it took me like two hours to decide if I 476 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 2: was even going to watch something, because I thought for 477 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: sure Victor would find out it was going to be 478 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 2: on a bill somehow, or like they would be able 479 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 2: to track it, somebody would tell him. But then I 480 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: was like fuck it, and I I put these headphones 481 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 2: in and started scrolling and found this teenage British movie 482 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 2: called Angus Thongs and Perfect Snogging and Designed to shit. 483 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 2: I remember like laughing and thinking the boys were cute, 484 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 2: and you know, it was like a little teenage rom com, 485 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 2: you know. But then part of me too was like, 486 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I wish I had had a life 487 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 2: like this, wish I was able to go on a 488 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 2: first date and wear these kinds of clothes, do my 489 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 2: hair in this certain way. I remember finishing the movie 490 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 2: and that was it. In case they found out, I 491 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: was like, I can't do more than one, Like I 492 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 2: will be really in big trouble. I'm just this huge 493 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 2: sinner on the plane watching this movie. I remember really 494 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: liking the movie. 495 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 4: The fear was still there that would hang on to 496 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 4: her for years to come, but without Victor's constant supervision. 497 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 4: There was nothing standing between Lindsay and the outside world. 498 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 4: Once she got to Brazil, information wasn't as restricted. 499 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 2: Being in Brazil and basically seeing people live their normal 500 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: lives was so eye opening and almost surreal. It was 501 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 2: almost like, oh my gosh, there's a whole nother life 502 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,719 Speaker 2: out here. People can live outside of the camp. 503 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 4: When Victor came to visit, it had been months, far 504 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 4: longer than she'd ever been away from him since becoming 505 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 4: a maiden. She started to feel more distant from him. 506 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: I do remember being standoffish towards him. I wasn't as 507 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 2: full and open as I once was, and I remember 508 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 2: I didn't want to end up in a situation where 509 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: he would have sex with me, and so I made 510 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 2: sure that you know, I never mean that opportunity available 511 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 2: to him. 512 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 4: River Road Fellowship was beginning to fracture after the news 513 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 4: of Victor's affairs came out. He left, and they started 514 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 4: to keep Victor's location secret. Sometimes Lindsay didn't even know 515 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 4: where he was. He traveled around, including up north to 516 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 4: right by the border of Canada. Minnesota didn't seem like 517 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 4: a safe place for the group anymore. So Victor decided 518 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 4: to move their headquarters from Minnesota to Washington State. They 519 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 4: left behind the properties and farms and businesses they'd built 520 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 4: up for so many years. Many followers relocated to Washington, 521 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 4: including the Maidens. The people who didn't move would have 522 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 4: to follow him from Afar. By the time Lindsay came 523 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 4: back from Brazil, her parents had moved home to Pennsylvania 524 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 4: without even telling her. They'd be loyal to Victor long distance, 525 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 4: and instead of flying home to ment Minnesota, Lindsay went 526 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 4: from Brazil to Washington. She joined the other Maidens near Spokane. 527 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 4: They lived in a house in a regular neighborhood, set 528 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 4: a little farther back from the houses, on a hill 529 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 4: among the trees. To make money, the maidens knocked on 530 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 4: doors offering cleaning services. This was a huge shift. After 531 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 4: years of avoiding outsiders. Now Lindsay spent her days in 532 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 4: other people's homes. Something in her mind began to turn. 533 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 2: I think it was about three months after being there. 534 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 2: Nicole and I were watching March of the Penguins. 535 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 4: Nicole was an older maiden, the one considered the head 536 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 4: of them all. She was also the daughter of Jan, 537 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 4: Victor's right hand. 538 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 2: Neither of us were feeling very well, so we were 539 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 2: on the couch in the basement watching March of the Penguins. 540 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: Morgan Freeman is the voice, which I didn't know him 541 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 2: at the time, but it was one of the approved 542 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 2: things we could watch. 543 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 4: While watching, Lindsay did something she'd never done before. She 544 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 4: turned to the other Maiden and said something taboo. She 545 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 4: didn't even really plan it, it just spilled out. 546 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 2: And I remember looking over at her and telling her 547 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 2: that I needed to talk to her about something. And 548 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 2: I told her that I didn't really agree with Victor 549 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 2: sleeping with some of the married women, and that I 550 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 2: felt like I wanted to move on from the maidens 551 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 2: and get married someday, have a family of my own, 552 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: and leave. I can't even believe that I got the 553 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 2: guts to tell her. I think in my mind I 554 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 2: was like, Victor's not here, you know, I wouldn't have 555 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 2: the pressure from him to stay. 556 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 4: But Lindsay wasn't really telling the truth when she talked 557 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 4: to the other Maiden. Victor's affairs were her excuse when 558 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 4: that believers might accept a strategy to be heard, but 559 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 4: it wasn't what really drove her Brazil, the airplane, the movies, Washington. 560 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 4: They all came together and told her something new. She 561 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 4: didn't have to stay here, and she knew now she 562 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 4: didn't want to. 563 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 2: I remember, she was surprised. 564 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 4: The maiden called her mom, Jan, who talked to Lindsay. 565 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 4: Jan tried to explain away Victor's actions with the line 566 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 4: she'd heard many times before, we. 567 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 2: All make mistakes, and that Victor made a mistake and 568 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 2: the blood of the Lamb covers all sins, and I 569 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 2: would need to forgive him, and that if I did leave, 570 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 2: I would be leaving my first love. And somehow through 571 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 2: all of that I stayed firm. I literally don't know 572 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 2: how I did that. 573 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 4: Jan called Victor and put Lindsay on the phone. Lindsay 574 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 4: was scared. She started to cry. When Victor picked up, 575 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 4: he sounded emotional, like maybe he was crying too. He 576 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 4: asked her if she was sure she wanted to do this. 577 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 4: He didn't try to convince her to stay like he'd 578 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 4: always done in the past. Years ago. Lindsay thinks he'd 579 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 4: recently experienced so much change, people moving away, just leaving 580 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 4: the Maidens. Maybe this just felt like one more change 581 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 4: to him. To this day, Lindsay thinks if she had 582 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 4: talked with him in person and not over the phone, 583 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 4: Victor would have convinced her to stay. Instead, Lindsay stood fast. 584 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 4: She wanted to leave, she said, Victor told her she 585 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 4: had his blessing and his love through it all. They 586 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,959 Speaker 4: bought her a one way train ticket to her parents 587 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 4: home in Pennsylvania, and two days later she was on 588 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 4: a train. She had her guitar, her clothes, her letters 589 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 4: and notebooks, and a stuffed loon, the maiden symbol. In 590 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 4: twenty ten, after ten years as a maiden, she was leaving. 591 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 2: And I remember being so scared, like stepping on the 592 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 2: train for the first time, being I think overcome with 593 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 2: feelings of so much loneliness and feeling really scared. And 594 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 2: they had given me this little cell phone and there 595 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 2: were I think one number programmed in there, like my 596 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 2: mom's or somebody. And then I had, I think, like 597 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 2: a walkman with headphones that I could put seeds in. 598 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 4: Lindsay had just a seat, no space to spread out 599 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 4: or sleep. Over the three day journey. A man was 600 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 4: in the seat next to her. As she had been 601 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 4: trained for years, she avoided his eyes. 602 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 2: I just would go to the bathroom and then back 603 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 2: to my chair. I just remember being like nervous to 604 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 2: look around or to talk to anyone. It was always 605 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 2: in the back of my mind maybe Victor will find out, 606 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 2: like maybe Victor will know because for ten years and 607 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 2: even before then, from nineteen ninety eight, it was like 608 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 2: he knew everything that was going with everybody. So I 609 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 2: think it definitely wasn't like getting on the train and 610 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 2: a sigh of relief at all. It was getting on 611 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 2: the train and feeling scared and lonely and nervous, and 612 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 2: I mean scared for the future the unknown. 613 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 4: Years ago, Lindsay had read Paradise Lost with the Maidens, 614 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 4: the poem about Adam and Eve. It motivated her to stay, 615 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 4: never to lead Victor's side, never to question God's love. 616 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 4: When I read Paradise Lost years ago, the thing that 617 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 4: struck me was how Satan was depicted. You hear his 618 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 4: inner dialogue throughout, and some scholars think Satan is not 619 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 4: pure evil, and how he's portrayed in the poem, that 620 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 4: he's a morally ambiguous, complicated figure, and in a lot 621 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 4: of ways he might be the person you side with 622 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 4: in this battle between Satan and God. You could argue, 623 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 4: if God or a god figure isn't leading well, even 624 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,800 Speaker 4: if heaven is supposedly adylic, maybe you don't want to 625 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 4: be there. Maybe Eve should eat that fruit. Maybe she 626 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 4: should gain the knowledge of good and evil. Maybe she 627 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 4: should leave the garden's walls. Maybe what is forbidden is 628 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:22,800 Speaker 4: the bravest thing to do. When I think of Lindsay 629 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 4: on that train, I hear the final lines of Paradise Lost, 630 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 4: the final image of the whole epic poem of Adam 631 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 4: and Eve. They wipe some tears, and the world is 632 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 4: all before them. Now they will choose where to go. 633 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,760 Speaker 4: Milton writes, they walk hand in hand with wandering steps, 634 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 4: and slow out of the garden and into the world. 635 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: Next time on The Turning. 636 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 2: So this started when you were about thirteen? 637 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 5: Okay? 638 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 2: So how long did it go. 639 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 5: On until I left turn I was twenty three. Okay, 640 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 5: that's a long time. 641 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts. 642 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: It's written and produced by Erica Lance and Me. Our 643 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 1: story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed by 644 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact checking 645 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: by Andrea Lopez Cruzado. Our executive producers are John Parratti 646 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 1: and Jessica Albert at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvell and 647 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: Nikki e Tour at iHeart Podcasts. You can follow us 648 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Rococoa, and you can reach out via 649 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: email The Turning at Rococo punch dot com. I'm Alan Lancelessor. 650 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.