1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Greetings, welcome 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt, and our 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: pal Noel is on some adventures, but we'll return in 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: the future. They called me Ben. We are joined as 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: always with our super producer Paul, Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: you are you. You are here that makes this stuff 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Welcome to the show. 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: You did not have to buy tickets, that's right. You 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: did have to buy a phone or a computer or 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: something that has a microphone and a processor and at 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: least headphone outputs or some kind of speaker. Let's call 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: those associated fees. So the show is free. It takes 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: some doing to get it in you, to get it 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: in your ear right, all the all the paraphernalia is 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: not included. I mean, sure, this is a show. This 19 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,199 Speaker 1: is a recorded show, right we we do a call 20 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: in line. We've taken the show on the road and 21 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: probably will do again and then near to mid future. 22 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: But nothing, nothing quite beats the experience, right, if you're 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: in your favorite music or your favorite performance whatever it 24 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: is live, right, Like, what are some of the memorable 25 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: concerts you've been to? Man, I haven't really been to many. 26 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: But Dave Matthews back in the day, oh boy, some 27 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: of that DMB baby, Oh it was the best. And 28 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: you know what tickets were always like, Okay, they were 29 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: not insane back in the early two thousand's doing some 30 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: old d m B. Though, you know, you get to 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: you know, that's a fairly large act, right then you 32 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: get to um newer shows nowadays, and you're going to 33 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: a much smaller venue with a much smaller band. And 34 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: I'm paying more now to see those bands than I 35 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: did to pay a big ticket band when I was 36 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, coming out of high school in college. So 37 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: like you would go see Dave Matthews band in a 38 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: in a stadium or something, uh, something that large, and 39 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: you would get maybe some reasonable tickets on the lawn 40 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: or max thirty bucks with everything, yeah, just to get 41 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: into Lakewood Amphitheater, which not called that anymore, but who cares? 42 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: And also, you know, inflation, obviously everyone is saying inflation, 43 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: matt but inflation, but that's not at all. Let's call 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: it fflation. Okay, maybe okay, asides from sounding very dr 45 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: susy and that that is a word that could work 46 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: for today's episode, because you know what bothers me about 47 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: buying tickets probably the same thing that bothers everyone they 48 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: buy tickets nowadays, when you buy a ticket for something, 49 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: you're overwhelmingly going to do it online or else you're 50 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: gonna show up at a show the day of, you know, 51 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: and it's it's probably sold out, if it's worth anything, perhaps, yeah, yeah, 52 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: and it's it's really it's relatively rare for someone to 53 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: be walking down the street see tickets for a show 54 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: like next week or that weekend, and then say I'm 55 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: gonna walk in and buy those now in person. People 56 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: don't do that near as often, so most of the 57 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: time we buy tickets online. And here in the United 58 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: States there's been one game in town for quite a while, 59 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: and this game continues in other countries as well, a master, 60 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: if you will, of tickets, some sort of ticket master. Yes, 61 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: took a while to get to that one, but it's true. 62 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: Right since about the late nineteen seventies, it's become increasingly 63 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: difficult to get tickets to live events, Broadway plays, uh, symphonies, 64 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: the DMB. It's difficult to get these tickets without running 65 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: somehow into ticket Master, even if you don't know that 66 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: you're running into ticket Master. So what exactly is this thing? 67 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: It's been here for for the three of us, for you, 68 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: mission control of myself, for our entire lives, yeah and 69 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: beyond and before. Yeah. So let's go back to Phoenix, Arizona, 70 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies six. A couple of gentlemen. We got Albert Lefler, 71 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: Peter Godwa and another man of businessman named Gordon Gunn. 72 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: What a great name. Yeah, seriously, Gordon gun So Leffler. 73 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: He comes up with this name, this idea for a thing, 74 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: uh uh, and he calls it ticket Master. And it's 75 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: this new company that's just gonna control tickets and for 76 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: these guys when they founded in nineteen seventy six, really, 77 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: all they're trying to do in the beginning is sells 78 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: some tickets to an electric light orchestra concert at the 79 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: University of New Mexico. That's the first big thing. And 80 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: electric light Orchestra is something that my dad told me 81 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: about actually that he really enjoyed. Um, look it up, 82 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: Google it. If you don't know it, Spotify it. I'm 83 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: sure you can find it. Mr. Blues Guy is a 84 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: great song. It really is. It really is. Uh. But anyway, 85 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: so this one little thing in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I'm 86 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: so sorry to interrupt that to say, Turned to Stone 87 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,119 Speaker 1: is also a great song in my in my mind, 88 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: it's one that I've had stuck in my head. Awesome, right, 89 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: Blue Sky, turned to Stone. It's the seventies, it's Albuquerque, 90 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: out of college. Awesome, good times rolling, right, Let the 91 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: good times roll. And so then uh, they figure out, hey, 92 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: this is working. We're just you know, control a hub. 93 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: We're controlling the tickets to one thing. We're good at this. 94 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: Let's keep doing it. So they keep doing it for 95 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: a few years. Then by night they have their first 96 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: international clients, um, coming in from Norway, Oslo, Norway. And 97 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: that same year they signed their first major venue, this 98 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: place called the Louisiana Superdome, along with their first Major 99 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: League team, the New Orleans Jazz, which is now the 100 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: Utah Jazz, but in the city of New Orleans it 101 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: was the Jazz. So they actually have the NBA as 102 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: one of their major clients, one one team on the NBA. 103 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: But still that's huge for just a couple of guys 104 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: starting with a startup, right, Yeah, And it happened so quickly. 105 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: It's just a few years. When Leffler and Godwa originally 106 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: thought of the company, they were going to be licensing 107 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: software for tickets, really, and they've got on from that too, 108 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: being the ticket provider for stadiums, which sounds kind of 109 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: like maybe a boring business, right it's not as uh, 110 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: you know, endlessly fascinating as being a professional uh skydiver, 111 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: maybe a podcaster or something like that, you know, an 112 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: underwater tattoo artist. But but still, what we have to 113 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: realize is they get a cut of every ticket sold, 114 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: and when you get to something as large as a superdome, 115 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: that's a lot of money in a very one like 116 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: in one night other people knew about the game. There 117 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: were other things that existed at this time before Ticketmaster. 118 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: There was a business called ticket Tron like ticket and 119 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: then the movie Tron, and that's nineteen sixty. So it's 120 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: difficult to It's hard for me to imagine computerized ticket 121 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: sales being organ eyes and enough with software with computers 122 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: of that are powerful enough to like do it in 123 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: any large scale. But it was happening, Yeah, yeah, it wasn't. 124 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: It wasn't necessarily happening on the customer end, but you 125 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: would make a phone call to take a tron and 126 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: they would have this database. Right, So can I tell 127 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: you fun fact about Aron. They were purchased by a 128 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: thing called the Lovecraft Investment Group. What's the Lovecraft Investment Group? Had? 129 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: All I know is it's Lovecraft. There's a Lovecraft involved, 130 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: That's all I know. Oh boy, let's see it's true, 131 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: the Hewlett Packard Lovecraft. I don't know what the I 132 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: don't know what the Lovecraft Investment coming. This may be 133 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: fodder for another podcast. Here's the thing. As you said, 134 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: there were other there are other similar creatures around in 135 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: this more ticket right, other places that wanted to be 136 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: the ticket provider, in the middleman for that. But like 137 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: a hungry invading species, Ticketmaster consumed and digested these competitors. 138 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: In one it opened its first overseas operation. In two, 139 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: they got a new CEO, a guy named Fred Rosen. 140 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: Rosen told the l A Times back in that his 141 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: competitors were asleep at the switch he said he was 142 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: an aggressive businessman and proud of it and got this 143 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: American psycho vibe going on. Right. He was so good 144 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: at dominating the ticket industry that it became the only 145 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: game in town. And other people, other artists, primarily not 146 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: just uh wound up consumers, other artists started to take 147 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: issue with it. Pearl Jam launched a campaign in that 148 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: they called a strong language for some people ticket bastard, 149 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: because he's you. Pearl Jam was hearing from their fans 150 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: that they literally couldn't afford tickets to a show, or 151 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: that they were getting saddled with these egregious hidden fees, 152 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: and so they said, well, look man, we we want 153 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: to make a living, but we want our fans to 154 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: see our music. We don't want to uh milk them 155 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: for every penny they're worth, Like what are we kiss? 156 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? They don't want to do that. 157 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: They want to be human, They want to stay humans. 158 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: So they wanted to offer summer tour tickets to fans 159 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: for under twenty bucks, and they asked ticket Mastered, you know, hey, guys, 160 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: can you just not charge another twenty bucks and fees? 161 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: Can you actually keep the fees around two dollars or 162 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: whatever that your cost of doing businesses and they said no, no, 163 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: your pearl Jam, and we our ticket Master. Yeah so yeah, 164 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: that but it's easy to think about because they really 165 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: did say no, and Pearl Jam just decided, well, it's 166 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: not worth it. We're not even going to go on tour. 167 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: We're canceling everything. We're not gonna like go and play 168 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of empty stadiums where nobody can show up 169 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: for for this these exorbitant prices. They end up going 170 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: to Congress and guess what, Pearl Jam one and everything 171 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: was okay and everyone was happy, and ticket sales went 172 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: down to twenty dollars for the rest of our lives. 173 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for tuning in, folks. We hope you 174 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode. Oh wait, nope, nope, that's not what happened. 175 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: What happened ticket Master one? Right, And there's one more 176 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: sort of detail for this story. The band, the members 177 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: of the band Pearl Jam maintained and say to this 178 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: day you can ask them today and they'll confirm this 179 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: that private investigators were sent to snoop around in their lives, 180 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: sent by Ticketmaster and having a p i um sicked 181 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: on you by a company, very common occurrence. Unfortunately, what 182 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: they were probably trying to do, what the allegation implies 183 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: is that Ticketmaster was attempting to find something discrediting to 184 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: members of Pearl Jam, not something that had anything to 185 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: do with their crusade to get better ticket prices. They 186 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: wanted to be able to say, well, this person is 187 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: doing heroin and we'll put it in the news if 188 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: you guys don't straighten up until the corporate line. But 189 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, again, that's a terrible example because this is 190 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: the nineties in Seattle grunge, right, So doing heroin may 191 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: unfortunately not have been the huge scandal that they would want, 192 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: but they wanted something to hold over their heads, and eventually, 193 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: probably more so, through just the sheer, ungodly amount of 194 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: money Ticketmaster has, they were able to they were able to, 195 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: as you say, prevail. So that brings us to the 196 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: modern day. A company called Interactive Corps, oddly enough not 197 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: a video game company, purchased a majority stake and ticket Master, 198 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: and then it bought the rest of the company n 199 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: the name changed to Ticketmaster Online. Dash City search doesn't 200 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: exactly roll off the tongue, right, So they didn't care 201 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: that it didn't roll off the tongue. The company expanded, diversified, 202 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: it kept evolving its business model, increasingly going from phones 203 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: to online sales, and this constant evolution, the way of 204 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: many businesses right uh, unfortunately, did not go in the 205 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: direction that critics wanted it to. They didn't see cheaper tickets, 206 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: they didn't feel like things were more transparent. These moves 207 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: did not quell all of the critics, and today ticket 208 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: Master controls and estimate aided of the little more than 209 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: of the ticketing market in North America. M So they're 210 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: doing something right. But let's get back to the critics. 211 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: What are these critics saying. Well, they're saying that we 212 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: need to take a quick break to hear from our 213 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: sponsor and then we'll find out what ticket Master may 214 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: or may not have been getting into. Here's where it 215 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: gets crazy. So it turns out that in addition to 216 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: be massively successful, Ticketmaster has been accused of numerous abuses, 217 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: breaches of law, and shady business practices. There's genuine stuff 218 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know here. It's probably not 219 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: gonna stop snow Compellingnipetus to stop it. And yes, ticket 220 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: Master has been sued for conspiracy. Oh snap, the big 221 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: c all right, stake another time traveling trip here to 222 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: two thousand nine. Bruce Springsteen. Oh everybody knows or Bruce 223 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: the Boss. Yeah, he's the boss. He's your boss and 224 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: my boss. He publicly calls out ticket Master in two 225 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: thousand nine for a little um, let's say, misdirection, redirection, 226 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: if you will, from from a website. So as fans 227 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: were going and trying to buy tickets through ticket Master 228 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: to the Springsteen concert, they were getting sent to this 229 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: other place called ticket now dot com, completely separate site. 230 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: It looks very different. There's no you know, when you're 231 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: on that site, you don't understand what's happening. You feel 232 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: like a pop up maybe has occurred, or you've gotten 233 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: redirected through an ad maybe, or this is your last 234 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: chance to get some kind of ticket to see the 235 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: Boss live. Well, yeah, there's a certain desperation that's happening 236 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: when you are being redirected to this ticket now dot 237 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: com because guess what, the tickets are marked up by hundreds, 238 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: sometimes thousands of dollars at ticket now versus ticket Master. 239 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: So then all these fan complaints are coming through because 240 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: of this weird steering to this place called tickets Now. Um, 241 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: a New Jersey congressman gets a call and basically this 242 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: guy says, Hey, we need a federal antitrust investigation into 243 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: whatever the heck is going on between ticket Master and 244 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: ticket Now. What is this? Let's figure this out. Yeah, 245 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: So here's what they find. They find that ticket Now, 246 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: in addition to having a very similar name to ticket Master, 247 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: is owned by ticket Master, and when Bruce Springsteen's fans 248 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: were going to a website to buy tickets to his show, 249 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: they were automatically redirected to ticket Now, which, as he said, 250 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: met sells tickets from much higher than their face value. 251 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: And it prays on that desperate san Right, that's psychological 252 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: fear that someone else will get the thing I want. So, 253 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: you know, I may not necessarily think this is a 254 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: good financial decision, but I will be gosh darned and 255 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: gali ged if I allow somebody else to get that ticket. 256 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, It's an artificial scarcity essentially. 257 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen found out about it, and he was he 258 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: was righteously indignant. He wrote a public statement about this 259 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: because what he found out was that this sort of 260 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,959 Speaker 1: second chance or reselling site. Ticket Now was something that 261 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster was sending the audience to when there were still 262 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: regular tickets available. So they could have gotten that you know, 263 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: thirty or forty or whatever dollar ticket to sit on 264 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: the lawn in the back and have a great time. 265 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: But instead they were going directly to this place where 266 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: it was you know, this huge markup, and that that 267 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: that markup goes to Ticketmaster. Man. So Ticketmaster gets a 268 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: fifteent cut from tickets Now, which it owns. H So 269 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: that's in addition to the fees it already gets as Ticketmaster, 270 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: so that that money is already spent and baked into 271 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: the price. So uh, a lawsuit comes about, and essentially 272 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: what they're doing is making money off the same ticket 273 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: two times. Clever, you know, brilliant, very clever, evil, lawful evil, 274 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: and so uh. Probably because Friedenstein himself took such a 275 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: strong stance against the Ticketmaster issued an apology to the 276 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: fans and said, we will refund you the price difference 277 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: between the face value of the tickets and those you 278 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: got from ticket Now, which is a lot of you know, 279 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: it's a lot of scratch. But that's also that's also 280 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: like being caught stealing, you know, being caught stealing a 281 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: car and then saying I'm I'm gonna drive it back 282 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: to your house. Yeah, and then like I feel bad, 283 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: I mean some gas money here, just a little bit gas. No, 284 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: they didn't they but but it's strange, right, and this 285 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: is just one of the allegations against Ticketmaster. We've got 286 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: that Pearl Jam example. But let's talk about those fees, 287 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: because that's where a lot of this comes back in. Right. 288 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: Have you ever bought a twenty dollar ticket only to 289 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: find that it becomes more than forty dollars by the 290 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: time you get to the actual place your order? No? Never, Never, Tabernacle, 291 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: that's a that's a local venue here in Atlanta. What 292 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: kind of fees have you run into? Literally twice as much? 293 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I've seen I have seen tickets double 294 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: when I buy them for just a local You're here 295 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: because of ticket Master's weird fees to get me my 296 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: ticket somehow that I can print out already. Yeah, there's 297 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: like a two to five dollar fee for getting a PDF. 298 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: Essentially you can print somebody. I'm paying somebody's salary who's 299 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: just on a floor somewhere making calls like I need 300 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: three Pearl jam but like no, no, I got four 301 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: Radiohead No. And it's like it has to be that 302 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: to justify twenty or thirty dollar fees on top of 303 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: everything else. Otherwise I do not understand. Yeah, you're absolutely right. 304 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,239 Speaker 1: There's a there's a service charge, and that would be 305 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: ticket masters charging you for the privilege of giving you 306 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: a ticket. And then there's the facility charge, which is 307 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 1: a charge added by the venue. So ticket Master takes 308 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: its cut, and then the Tabernacle, for example, takes its cut. 309 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: And then there are shipping, convenience and processing charges. So 310 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: that's a charge for you know, using your visa American 311 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: Express US, that's a charge for having the tickets delivered 312 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: to you via post or choosing your own printer. But 313 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: then who who pays Cardi b e? Then is what 314 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out, Like what's her cut? Everybody 315 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: else is taking their cut. Who's where's Cardi B's money? 316 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: Unless you're a huge name artist, which I guess Cardi 317 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: b is now. Uh, the the amount of money you 318 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: get per ticket can be surprisingly alarmingly small because the 319 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: label will take some money, you know what I mean, 320 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: Your road crew will take some money and all all 321 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: this other stuff craft services. Eat that cheese because it's 322 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 1: coming out of your kind of the profits, right. Uh, 323 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: but all all this adds up to u to an 324 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: unpleasant experience for people when we're buying these tickets. The 325 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: problem is there's not really any transparency with this fees 326 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: between events, very even at the same venue and pre 327 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: princes of the artist as well is some people will 328 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: try to buck like Radiohead or Pearl Jam. And the 329 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: problem with it is that none of this, none of 330 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: this ultimately goes into a situation where and ticket prices 331 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: are lower. None of this is meant to nor will 332 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: it ever create cannot yes, none, None of this is 333 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: meant to create a situation where artists get paid more 334 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: and the audience pays less. Absolutely none. If anything. It's 335 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, nobody talks about this, but 336 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: it's pretty weird that you and you know historically can't 337 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: buy a car directly from the people who make cars. 338 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: It's weird. It's a weird thing. It's normalized and you know, 339 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: I'm not choosing sides on it, but that that is 340 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: something we think about. You know, you can buy almost 341 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: you can buy so many other things directly from the 342 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: people who make them. Vertical integration is scary though, and 343 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: it can it can be highly it can be highly problematic. Yeah, 344 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: and it can also be dangerous for the bottom line. Right, So, 345 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: the allegation here is that Ticketmaster is sort of a 346 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: rent seeker and it's now a middle It's maybe it 347 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: needed to be in the process before everybody had a 348 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: brilliant computer on their phone, but now maybe it doesn't 349 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: have to be right, Maybe that kind of software is 350 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: easier to handle. We don't really know. We just know 351 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: that they are the largest game in town, and we 352 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: know that the the entire operation is exceedingly opaque. We're 353 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: going to take a break for a brief word from 354 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: our sponsor, and then we'll come back with an investigation 355 00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: in Canada that that makes this even weirder. All right, 356 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazier. This is hard for me 357 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: to understand that this is real. Okay, what we're gonna 358 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: talk about from now mostly through the rest of this episode, 359 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: we got from a CBC news um investigation that was 360 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: carried out and specifically there's a journalist named Dave Seglins 361 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: who actually physically went undercover as a scalper at a 362 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: ticket industry convention out there in Las Vegas. And you 363 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: can watch video of this online right now. If you 364 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: want to take a break, you can. You can search 365 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: this up CBC ticket Master. UM segling l I N S. 366 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: That's good, you'll find it. Check it out. It's pretty crazy. 367 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: Could we set some just some axiomatic beginnings here. Okay, So, 368 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: so imagine your ticketmaster. You make money selling tickets. Um, 369 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: you want people to buy tickets from you? Definitely? Um, 370 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: does it matter who that person is buying a ticket 371 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: from you as long as somebody's buying a ticket from you, right, right, 372 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: as long as the transaction occurs. But you want to 373 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: be on the side of the people in the artists, 374 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: and you would probably say hey, at least in public, 375 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: you say, hey, I think scalpers are the worst and 376 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: they take advantage of people. Yeah, because we want you 377 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: to have low prices and see all the stuff you 378 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: want to see. Don't be mad at us. Right, So 379 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: it's it's established then in the public mind. The axiom 380 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: is that uh, ticket distributors or these these middle segments 381 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: between the artists and the event and the customer, that 382 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: they should not not be down with scalpers, like you 383 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: guys making it weird, you're making it worse. I don't 384 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: want to be in a situation where, for instance, there are, uh, 385 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: what's a great what's a great event that people would 386 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: go to today? Like a band or a performance or 387 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 1: alien Con alien Con. They're only, yeah, it's a one 388 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: night only, four hundred, four hundred seat event and it's 389 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 1: called alien Con. Who knows what it is. Maybe it's 390 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: a mariachi band, and uh they ticket Master, one would assume, 391 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: does not care for a situation where one person goes 392 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: in and buys all four hundred or whatever those tickets 393 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: in one block and then turns around and sells them 394 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: through fifty more on you know eBay. Yeah, basically Ticketmaster 395 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: is not down with O P t right other people's tickets. 396 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: They don't. They're like, look, these these are the people's tickets, right, right, right? 397 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: So what that's what we assumed, right, And it turns 398 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: right and it turns out that we were very wrong, 399 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: like cartoonistly, So they're all they're quite all right with 400 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: anyone buying their share of the tickets as long as 401 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: those tickets get sold, and especially if ticket Master can 402 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: sell the tickets twice. What what are we talking about? Okay, well, 403 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: let's go back to Las Vegas at that convention. Um 404 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: so ticket Master, he's recording Ticketmaster at least some representatives 405 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: from Ticketmaster. Maybe that's the best way to say it. Um, 406 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 1: they are, these representatives are pitching scalpers on their ticket 407 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: Masters trademarked professional reseller program that they have established. Okay, now, 408 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: according to the investigation that you follow David David segments 409 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: through with the CBC News investigation, um Ticketmaster was not 410 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: only just deciding that if scalping is happening, we're just 411 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: gonna put blinders on and pretend that it's not happening. 412 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,959 Speaker 1: They're also literally recruiting people, professional people who have been 413 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: scalping for a long time or maybe are very good 414 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: at scalping, to cheat the ticket Master system itself, to 415 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: expand their ticket Master's resale business, and again to take 416 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: more money from the people that are just trying to 417 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: go out and see a concert or an event or something. 418 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: So just to recap it's Ticketmaster teaching scalpers to scalp 419 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: Ticketmaster for their own profit for ticket Masters profits. Yes, yea, 420 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: so they have. They've done more than turn a blind eye. 421 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: They've gone They've gotten to a win win situation with 422 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: scalpers and ticket Master. Right, So this is for the 423 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: average concert goer. This is this is the part of 424 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: the movie where the bad guys team up and once 425 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: sales rep is on camera saying, I have brokers that 426 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: have literally a couple of hundred accounts. It's not something 427 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: that we look at or report. Because they wanted these 428 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: scalpers to feel that they were that they were safe 429 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: in this. Ticketmaster, for its part, denied the accusations. And 430 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: once again, you can always go back to the idea 431 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: that actions by a few people in the organization do 432 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: not automatically mean the entire organization condones it, right tail 433 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: as old as time. That's what any intelligence agency will 434 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: say when it's undeniably caught doing something terrible and be like, well, 435 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: that guy decided to topple that country on his own, 436 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: and we we always knew that, We always knew that 437 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: Jeremy was a little bit off. Yeah, and this is 438 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: all compartmentalized anyway, Only a very few from all number 439 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: of people knew anything about that. Yeah, Like I'm weirded 440 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: out hearing hearing about it today, Congresswoman. This is the 441 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: first first I've heard of it, and I've got to 442 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: tell you, Frinkly, I am outraged. You know what I 443 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: am too, And I hope you get to the bottom 444 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: of it. And congratulations on all your work. Thank you, 445 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: thank you. I'll be speaking at Georgetown UH this coming Friday. 446 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: It's one one night only. You can yeah you can't 447 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: get tickets through ticket Master or if those are sold out, 448 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: go ahead to Yeah it is sold out, well, go 449 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: to ticket noway tickets now, let's so and seen. So 450 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: ticket Master developed a toolkit for these scalpers. It is 451 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: a professional They don't call them scalpers. They call them resellers. 452 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: A professional reseller program that they launched call used tickets, 453 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: pre owned tickets, call certified pre owned U called trade Desk. 454 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: Trade Desk is a quote web based inventory management system 455 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: for scalpers. The company calls it the most powerful ticket 456 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: sales tool ever. So here's what it allows you to do. 457 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: You can buy a block of tickets from ticket Master 458 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: through one of its many faces, and then you can 459 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: upload those tickets to this trade Desk thing, and then 460 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: you can just list them again for resale. This means 461 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: you can hike or drop prices on tons and tons 462 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: of tickets based on what you think fans are looking for. 463 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: So it turns it into almost a stock market kind 464 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: of thing. Uh, neither Trade Desk nor the professional reseller 465 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: program are mentioned anywhere on ticket Master's website. You can 466 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,239 Speaker 1: go check we looked, it's not there. It's also not 467 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: listed on any of its corporate reports. If you want 468 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: to find the Trade Desk website, you first have to 469 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: send in a registration request. So let's go ahead and 470 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: take a look at what happens. If you do get 471 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: through that registration process, you do have one of these 472 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: things like a an account there, and you are reselling things. 473 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: Let's see what Ticketmaster actually gets out of this whole process. 474 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: So it just as an example, let's say ticket Master 475 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: is going to sell a ticket for a little over 476 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: two hundred dollars two d nine dollars and fifty cents. 477 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: Okay um, that's just the price of the ticket. Ticket 478 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: Master itself is going to collect twenty five dollars and 479 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: seventy cents just on that initial sale. Now when the owner, now, 480 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: if because we're saying this this is through trade Desk, 481 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: the owner who's just purchased it through trade desk, then 482 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: puts it back up for resale for roughly twice as 483 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: much as it's the original cost, let's say four hundred dollars. 484 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: The company, then ticket Master stands to collect an additional 485 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: seventy six dollars on that same ticket. So so again 486 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: you're looking at over a hundred dollars that you're gonna 487 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: make um out of six dars in total of sales. 488 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: And at this point that's legal to it's not against law. Yeah, 489 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: And it's just a way to make sure that tickets 490 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: get sold at least if you're looking at from the 491 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: company's perspective, Trade desk basically insures that every ticket is 492 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: going to get sold at in some way from that 493 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: initial sale, the idea being that, you know, if you 494 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: want that, the idea being that the lever moves and 495 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: down so you could lower prices. Maybe day of ticket 496 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: sales aren't where you want them to be. So someone says, 497 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: all right, now this is no longer two it's fifty dollars. 498 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: Let's see what happens, right, Yeah, And there are strategies 499 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: the kind of line up with that at the like 500 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: towards the end of a concert or something, or towards 501 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: the end of a big game, people, there will still 502 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: be scalpers outside of a well, okay, there will be 503 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: resellers outside of a venue selling tickets for you know, 504 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: pennies on the dollar if the show is almost over, 505 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: something to get people in just to finally make a 506 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: tiny bit of money on that thing. And that that 507 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: exists throughout these markets. Yeah. Absolutely, we do want to 508 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: say that while while we did mention that ticket Master 509 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: h denied the allegations brought by this investigative report, maybe 510 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: it'll be helpful for us to give the actual language 511 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: that they used in denying this allegation. What do you think? Absolutely? 512 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: All right, So, after the story was published there in 513 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: CBC News, Ticketmaster issued a statement that went out to 514 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: CBC News, but then also went out to other places 515 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: that are reported on the stories, such as The Rolling Stone, 516 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: saying it was quote categorically untrue the Ticketmaster has any 517 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: program in place to enable resellers to acquire large volumes 518 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: of tickets. It also said it had already begun an 519 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: internal review of professional reseller accounts and employee practices before 520 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: the CBC News story came out. So they said, look, 521 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: we've already been investigating this internally and we would never 522 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: try to game the system in the way that you're describing. Again, 523 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: a representative from Ticketmaster is on camera completely completely doing 524 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: what they say, what they're denying. Yeah, the biggest, the 525 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: biggest thing that Ticketmaster had a problem with was that 526 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: that representative acknowledged of of acknowledged the knowledge that one 527 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: person essentially would have two hundred accounts, right, or one 528 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: entity or one group would have two hundred trade desk accounts. 529 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 1: That's that's where the big problem comes in. Yeah, so 530 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: is it is this situation where the money got too good? 531 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: Is a situation where we're finally maybe as the public 532 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: or the uninitiated scene into a previously murky world, That's 533 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: very possible. I would go ahead and just say it 534 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: makes me think of something we we discussed at the 535 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: very beginning of a competitive marketplace, essentially and having to 536 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: always evolve, like consistently evolving to make sure that you're 537 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: making more profit so that you can increase your margins 538 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 1: year every year, or you know, your increase your percentage 539 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: overall of gross income year every year, Like having to 540 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: find new creative ways as a giant company like Ticketmaster, 541 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: and it's you know, parent companies and all that. These 542 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: kinds of reselling. It's a it's another way to increase 543 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 1: those margins that isn't necessarily illegal. If you take out 544 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: the some of the things from the sea, you know, 545 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,800 Speaker 1: some of the things were illegal, but not many. Right. Um, 546 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: the reselling market, as terrible as it sounds, and as 547 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: bad as it is for consumers such as us, it's 548 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: just another one of those ways to grab more money. 549 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: Allegedly illegal well, definitely illegal, but that they allegedly did. Yes, yes, 550 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 1: apologies because it hasn't been I don't think it's necessary. 551 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: This is just we're we're just being as fair as 552 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: we can so, as you can tell by the use 553 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 1: of the phrase allegedly and the fact that we're being 554 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: fairly careful about how we discussed this. Ticketmaster has been 555 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 1: in and out of court. In they suffered a data breach, 556 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,959 Speaker 1: and in twenty nineteen a British law firm launched legal 557 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: action against them for effecting up to forty thousand UK customers, 558 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: and also in the U s Department of Justice launched 559 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: investigation following complaints that Live Nation, an event promoter, had 560 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 1: engaged in anti competitive practices following their merger with Ticketmaster. 561 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: There's a organization called End Shouts Entertainment Group, and they 562 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: said Live Nation pressured them and choosing Ticketmasters a vendor, 563 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: and had they refused, they would have lost out on business. 564 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: The allegations of antitrust violations resulted in a reexamination of 565 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: the merger between ticket Master and Live Nation. However, this 566 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: case is probably going into well, many of these cases 567 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: are going into arbitration, private settlements. No need to have 568 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: a shameful day in court. And at this point Ticketmasters 569 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: very little in the way of real competition. There are 570 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: other things in the market, sure, but there they're gnats 571 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: two Ticketmasters, Behemoth, right. And the question then is I mean, 572 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: clearly there's some stuff they don't want you to know 573 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,439 Speaker 1: that's inarguable it's not necessarily criminal. Like for instance, okay, 574 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: think of airline tickets depending on which way you go 575 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: through an airline, or think of privatized insurance. People don't 576 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: want you to know the lowest price you can get. 577 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: They want you to get confused and bored and desperate 578 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: enough to just take the easiest thing. Yeah, that's that's 579 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,920 Speaker 1: that is a very clear and unfortunately disturbing explanation of 580 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: how all three of those industries work. Most industries, I guess, 581 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: everyone just trying to get you to take the easiest 582 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: option for you, and it depends on where you are 583 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: in life times ticking. But here's the easiest one for 584 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: your social strata. Right. You're not looking for Mr. Wright Price, 585 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: You're looking for Mr Right now Price right. Start applying 586 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: that to social interactions. And now it's just so we've 587 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: gone down a rabbit hole. I should have it, should 588 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: have quit while we were ahead with the with the 589 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: insurance airplane ticket thing. But yeah, it's It's true, and 590 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: there's probably not going to be any anything that really 591 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: stops this practice. There will be things that degate it. 592 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: The problem is that the established system has caught up 593 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: to technological breakthroughs only in the ways that can improve 594 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: its profit while maintaining its position. The technology that we 595 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: have now to organize, distribute, and track these sorts of 596 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: things is amazing. If you if you were from the 597 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies and you've looked at it, you would think 598 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: was mind blowing, you know what I mean, unless you 599 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: already worked for DARKA or something. It would be like, 600 00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: how did that get out here? But uh, but but 601 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: the problem is that even though we're we have the 602 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: potential to democratize the access to these tickets in a 603 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: way that would benefit the creators and benefit the customers, 604 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: we're not. We're not seeing that. When will that happen? 605 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 1: When will there be some sort of market disruption? I 606 00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: don't know. And at this point, as Ticketmaster, anything thoroughly illegal. No, 607 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: they haven't been convicted. None of the CEOs have ever 608 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: gone to jail. The creator has certainly never got in trouble. Yeah, 609 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, that whole conspiracy suit was out there, 610 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: didn't really go anywhere, right, right. So the question then 611 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: goes to us, fellow conspiracy realist, is this just how 612 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: this business should be run? And what what are other 613 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 1: businesses that you have seen that your that your fellow 614 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,919 Speaker 1: listeners may not be aware of, Like we've we've seen 615 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: some We've seen some strange things going on in the 616 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: funeral service industry. We've seen some strange things going on 617 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: here in the event and ticketing industry. But where else, 618 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 1: I wonder, where else is everything just crazy crooked appearing 619 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: to be crooked? I have to say so that we 620 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: don't get suited to that end to that, and I wanna, 621 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: I wanna pick your brain bin about the mechanic big 622 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: mechanic industry with some of these bigger companies out there 623 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: that that offer repairs to vehicles and automobiles, assuming like, um, 624 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: not just straight up garages, but box automotive stores that 625 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,799 Speaker 1: are also garages or service centers. Okay, yeah, the big 626 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: ones that are nationwide. I'd like to talk about some 627 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: of those, see if there are any conspiracies out there. 628 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: So maybe maybe if you're listening and you know, if 629 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,919 Speaker 1: you heard of anything, let us know what you've heard. 630 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: I will that's that's great, I will say on that. 631 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: On that note, there is one thing that sounds a 632 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: bit curmudgeently for me to say, but I think it's 633 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: a good point. It's one thing that bugs me about 634 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: modern car repairs. Over the past few years, cars have 635 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: increasingly become something that the person who owns it cannot 636 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: work on. Have you noticed that there are more and 637 00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,280 Speaker 1: more black boxes proliferating under the hood. Sure? Perhaps really 638 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: and just lack of experience, lack of knowledge. I just 639 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: feel like, call me old fashioned, but I feel like 640 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: if you if you buy a car, it should be 641 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: something that you own that it shouldn't have to be 642 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: a service. You know what I mean. We're moving increasingly 643 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: into a service economy. It is going to scare your 644 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 1: children listening now when when you say, yeah, people used 645 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: to like buy things and then have them, I'm like, 646 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: what for how much a month? Yeah? No, no, like 647 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,800 Speaker 1: you would just you would just buy one sandwich and 648 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: you would eat it. Yeah. Well it goes back to 649 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: that superpower thing of money and time. And I don't 650 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,360 Speaker 1: have time to work on this vehicle. I'll give it 651 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: to you and you fix it. Here's some of my superpower. 652 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: Or signing an agreement for instance, it says you are 653 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: not allowed to have anybody else work on a thing, 654 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: right like Apple has done this very well. Anyhow, story 655 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: for another day. Thank you so much. Between you and 656 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: we want to hear also your most agree just concert 657 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: ticket or event ticket fee story. Did you really go 658 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: into some website thinking you were gonna pay eighteen bucks 659 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: and then come out like thirty bucks later, bewildered and confused. 660 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 1: Did you try and get into a food Fighters concert 661 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: and then you realized, wait, it's four hundred dollars and 662 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 1: then you just said bye, oh man. Yeah, tell us 663 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: your stories and share them with your fellow listeners. You 664 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. We highly 665 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: recommend Here's where it Gets Crazy on Facebook, which is 666 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: our conspiracy group page. You can also follow us conspiracy 667 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: Stuff show I believe. We are on Instagram and you 668 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: can see some of my bizarre adventures on Instagram at 669 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: Ben Bolin. Don't look me up on Instagram. I'm on there, 670 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: but you will never find me, so ha. Take that. 671 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: If you wanna send us, or if you want to 672 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: call us, you could get your story on the air 673 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: or whatever you want to talk about. Give us a call. 674 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 1: We are one eight three three e s t d 675 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,840 Speaker 1: W y t K. You got three minutes. Tell us 676 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: a story in three minutes. If you can't do that, 677 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: just call back and leave another three minute one. It 678 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: helps to write it down in advance for some people 679 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,240 Speaker 1: at least bullet points. For me. Definitely, Yeah, same. Actually 680 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: I've done I've done the same. If you don't want 681 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: to do any of that stuff, you can still contact 682 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: us after you go on iTunes and or Apple podcasts 683 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: and leave us a review. Please just leave us any 684 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,840 Speaker 1: kind of review. It really does help us out personally 685 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 1: and as a show to have more reviews on those 686 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: those systems, those platforms. So doesn't matter how positive or negative. 687 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 1: Just give us a review and please be positive. Okay, 688 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: if you don't want to do any of that stuff, 689 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,240 Speaker 1: send us an email. We are conspiracy at how stuff 690 00:45:45,239 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: works dot com. Yeah. Stuff they don't want you to know. 691 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: Is a production of I heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 692 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 693 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 694 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.