1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,360
Speaker 1: Study and play come together on a Windows eleven PC

2
00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,160
Speaker 1: and for a limited time, college students get the.

3
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,280
Speaker 2: Best of both worlds.

4
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,000
Speaker 1: Get the Unreal College deal everything you need to study

5
00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,920
Speaker 1: and play with select Windows eleven PCs. Eligible students get

6
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 1: a year of Microsoft three sixty five Premium and a

7
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,119
Speaker 1: year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color

8
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,360
Speaker 1: Xbox Wireless controller. Learn more at Windows dot Com Slash

9
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,520
Speaker 1: Student Offer while supplies last ends June thirtieth. Terms at

10
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 1: Aka dot m s Slash College PC.

11
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 3: It's time to refresh your yard during Spring Backyard Days

12
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 3: at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on Propang

13
00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,159
Speaker 3: grills starting one hundred and seventy nine dollars like the

14
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,200
Speaker 3: Next Grill three burner gas grill, or get fifty dollars

15
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,320
Speaker 3: off of select Weber Spirit Grill and bring big flavor

16
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 3: to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton based

17
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 3: dring lights that bring it all together. Shop Spring Backyard

18
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 3: Days for seven days at the Home Depot now through

19
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 3: May sixth. Exclusion supplies to the Home Debo dot Com

20
00:00:57,960 --> 00:00:59,279
Speaker 3: Slash price match for details.

21
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,520
Speaker 4: What if you could have the most reliable Wi Fi

22
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 4: at the same price for five years that's the Exfinity

23
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 4: five year price guarantee, no annual contracts, no hidden fees,

24
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,840
Speaker 4: and our best equipment included. Plus get online in minutes

25
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 4: with same day Wi Fi. Just five years of fiber

26
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,560
Speaker 4: powered WiFi that boost speeds to the devices that need

27
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,320
Speaker 4: them most. Lock in your price and unlock the possibilities

28
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,840
Speaker 4: Exfinity imagine that select plans only restriction supply powered by fiber,

29
00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,040
Speaker 4: connects to the premises by coaxial cable, actual speeds fery.

30
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,520
Speaker 5: Hello, Next Picture So listeners, here's a friendly reminder that

31
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,160
Speaker 5: if you enjoy the Next Picture Show, you'll really enjoy

32
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,399
Speaker 5: getting more Next Picture Show. By subscribing to our Patreon,

33
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 5: you can get our weekly newsletter for three dollars a

34
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,400
Speaker 5: month and unlock bonus episodes for five dollars a month.

35
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 5: We recently released bonus episodes on The Batman and Sierra

36
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,400
Speaker 5: No and we have one of the works on the

37
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 5: new Hulu limited series. The dropout patrons also get access

38
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 5: to ad free versions of the podcast. But even if

39
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 5: you aren't ready to subscribe Vibe, you can still follow

40
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 5: the Patreon for your Next Picture Show, bonus mini recommendations

41
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,359
Speaker 5: and feedback Friday posts where we respond to your thoughts

42
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 5: and questions. Those posts are open to the public and

43
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,240
Speaker 5: we hope you'll come, engage and ask questions. You can

44
00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,360
Speaker 5: find it all at patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

45
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,120
Speaker 5: That's patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

46
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 6: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past.

47
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:25,919
Speaker 7: And the press.

48
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 8: You believe that someone out of the past can enter

49
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,679
Speaker 8: and take possession of a living being.

50
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,799
Speaker 5: We may be through with the past, but the past

51
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 5: is not through with us. Welcome to the Next Picture Show,

52
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 5: a Movie the Week podcast to go to a classic

53
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 5: film and how it shaped our thoughts on a recent release.

54
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:51,399
Speaker 5: I'm Scott Tobias here with Keith Phipps, Tasha Robinson, and Geneviefkowski.

55
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,120
Speaker 5: This week we're talking about two movies about a future

56
00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 5: where androids are so sophisticated they could be mistaken for humans.

57
00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 5: But before we do, I want to start with a

58
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,600
Speaker 5: question for the group. If you had a robot, what

59
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:05,679
Speaker 5: would you wanted to do?

60
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,560
Speaker 2: Tasha, I think I would like a cooking robot. If

61
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,720
Speaker 2: you're thank you for offering, Scott, that's very kind of you.

62
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,960
Speaker 2: I'm glad you're gonna go out and hook us up

63
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,640
Speaker 2: with Boston Dynamics. I've always thought that I could probably

64
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,519
Speaker 2: be a lot healthier if I had a robot in

65
00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,760
Speaker 2: the kitchen making nutritious, healthy meals for me. But I

66
00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 2: would want that robot to be dual purpose and capable

67
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,399
Speaker 2: of screening the roughly twelve thousand trailers that I get

68
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 2: every week for like negligible looking horror movies. I just

69
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 2: wanted to be capable of like going through and telling

70
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 2: me which ones are actually worth my attention, because it's

71
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 2: kind of time consuming. Jenevie, what about you, what do

72
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 2: you want a robot for?

73
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:47,280
Speaker 9: Well?

74
00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,280
Speaker 10: I think those are both good options. But seeing as

75
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 10: I don't really watch horror movie trailers, and I actually

76
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 10: would think I would miss the sort of creativity that

77
00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,839
Speaker 10: cooking allows me. I just go straight to the most

78
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 10: mundane task that I would happily give up, and that

79
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 10: is laundry. Give me a laundry robot. I never want

80
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 10: a full socks again in my life.

81
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 5: Scott, Wow, what about well? Well, first of all, I

82
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 5: want to say, you don't toasha. They have those like

83
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 5: smart ovens now right. You just like like a bar,

84
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:17,919
Speaker 5: You get the food and the mail, and then you

85
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,160
Speaker 5: just it's like a bar code that the thing reads.

86
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,440
Speaker 5: That's kind of like, that's kind of like a cooking robot.

87
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 2: I would prefer to not get mail order food. No,

88
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,680
Speaker 2: I want the robot to go like shops.

89
00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,400
Speaker 9: I think you know he just just killed all like

90
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,599
Speaker 9: a lot of sponsors by saying thatsha, we love order food.

91
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 2: Please, I'm sorry if you want to give us money,

92
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,280
Speaker 2: which and call it a robot, she's looking.

93
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 5: Forward to our future sponsors. The cooking robots will eventually

94
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 5: take over.

95
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 2: It when Chrome apron it can, it can call us

96
00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:54,520
Speaker 2: up and sponsor.

97
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 5: USh well, I my robot would have two incredibly specific

98
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,120
Speaker 5: per this. One one would be the clean the cat box,

99
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,039
Speaker 5: which I hate to do, you hate to do it,

100
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,280
Speaker 5: and that robot would not mind, would not could not smell,

101
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,600
Speaker 5: but could certainly scoop. That's a pretty basic robot thing.

102
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 5: And then uh, and then also would have to review

103
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,280
Speaker 5: any Ryan Reynolds movie for the reveal. I've I've had

104
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,479
Speaker 5: my film. I've done a couple of them already and

105
00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,359
Speaker 5: I'm done. I'm done with them, so uh, scooping the

106
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,240
Speaker 5: litter box, reviewing Ryan Reynolds movies, Keith, what about you?

107
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,040
Speaker 9: Okay? I don't want to sidetrack, but I don't want

108
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 9: to write off all Ryan Reynolds. So he definitely has

109
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,719
Speaker 9: had his moments. I just feel like he's coming into

110
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,760
Speaker 9: the full an we'll skip fast. So I've given this

111
00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,599
Speaker 9: some thought. I definitely want a robot who does not

112
00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,920
Speaker 9: look the least bit human or have any human qualities,

113
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,480
Speaker 9: because I want to avoid all the philosophical issues righted

114
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,040
Speaker 9: by these movies with my with my robot. And honestly,

115
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 9: I I really kind of following your guys example, I

116
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,680
Speaker 9: want some I really would like someone the deal a robot,

117
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,039
Speaker 9: someone something to deal with really mundane stuff like like

118
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,719
Speaker 9: actually filled my email in a way that makes sense

119
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,360
Speaker 9: and tiing up my physical media collection and that kind

120
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,320
Speaker 9: of thing. So I'll take that. I mean, I like

121
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 9: to cook. I actually don't mind laundry. It's I put

122
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 9: on a TV show and kind of just do you know,

123
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,839
Speaker 9: do my folding in there, and that's that's fine with me.

124
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 9: But yeah, it's a roomba seven point one or something

125
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 9: like that, that's that's what I need. Who also understands

126
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 9: how to how to alphabetize blu rays. Then that's perfect.

127
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 9: That's my robot.

128
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:34,800
Speaker 11: A robot unpaid intern precisely, Well, the androids we're talking

129
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 11: about in this pairing are not of the bleep bleep variety,

130
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 11: but machine learners who have unmistakably human qualities, even if

131
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,920
Speaker 11: their software has some heartbreaking limitations.

132
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,000
Speaker 5: Tasha, what do we have on tap?

133
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:47,480
Speaker 10: Well?

134
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 2: First up is AI Artificial Intelligence, a project that started

135
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 2: with Stanley Kubrick and ended with Steven Spielberg. It remains

136
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,720
Speaker 2: a unique fusion of their different sensibilities, even though Kubrick

137
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 2: died before AI went into production. Kelley Joe Osmat stars

138
00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 2: as a robot who's been programmed to feel love, which

139
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 2: gives him a strong attachment to the parents who adopt him.

140
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 2: When circumstances change and the robot boys kicked out of

141
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,720
Speaker 2: the house, he embarks on a journey to reunite with

142
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 2: his human mother and Pinocchio, like he wants to become

143
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,360
Speaker 2: a real boy in the process. We're pairing AI with

144
00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 2: Cogonata's new science fiction film After Yang, which also shows

145
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 2: sympathy for an android companion. Only in After Yang, the

146
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,280
Speaker 2: android dies at the beginning of the film, and it's

147
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 2: the human father played by Colin Farrell, who embarks on

148
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 2: a journey, first to fix the android for his daughter,

149
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,720
Speaker 2: then to simply understand its significance as a being so.

150
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 5: More sophisticated than my litter cleaning robot. Then okay, we'll

151
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 5: pick apart the circuitry of AI after the break.

152
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:49,400
Speaker 8: His name is David.

153
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:51,320
Speaker 9: I feel it.

154
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 6: It's creepy.

155
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,120
Speaker 10: It's just a real.

156
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 8: In a distant future, in an age of intelligent machines.

157
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 8: He is the first robotic child programmed to love and

158
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 8: coexists as a member of a family. His is a

159
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,440
Speaker 8: tale of humanity and a journey to find his place

160
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 8: among humans and machines, and a boy.

161
00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,200
Speaker 9: You're a real boy, at least Asrael as I've ever

162
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 9: made one.

163
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,520
Speaker 5: One of Steven Spielberg's signature touches as a director, or

164
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 5: his reaction shots, which invariably come before the audience sees

165
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,600
Speaker 5: the incredible thing his characters are reacting to. The camera

166
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 5: pushes in or in the famous shot of Roy Scheider

167
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,560
Speaker 5: on the beach and jaws Dolly's back, and then zooms

168
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,439
Speaker 5: in and we look at a mouth that slightly agape

169
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,240
Speaker 5: and eyes that are widened in amazement at whatever are

170
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,360
Speaker 5: about to see. Could be a shark, It could be

171
00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 5: a t rex. It could be a close encounter of

172
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 5: the third kind, but it's part of Spielberg's narrative strategy

173
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,479
Speaker 5: to raise the stakes by connecting to the human capacity

174
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 5: for wonder and vulnerability. With children, especially, wonder and vulnerability

175
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 5: are two sides of the same coin. Older people don't

176
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 5: have the same capacity for either one or more cynical

177
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,199
Speaker 5: and world weary. Not as much seems new to us,

178
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,720
Speaker 5: and we are more prepared to withstand the physical and

179
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,599
Speaker 5: emotional threats the world throws at us. The reason Spielberg's

180
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,560
Speaker 5: ET The Extraterrestrial is one of the all time great

181
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,680
Speaker 5: tear jerkers is how well he's able to articulate the

182
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 5: needs of a child, which we recognize as our own needs.

183
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,400
Speaker 5: The need to love and be loved, the need to

184
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,319
Speaker 5: be protected from danger, the need to have a home.

185
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,679
Speaker 5: Those needs are literally universal in ET, to the point

186
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,959
Speaker 5: where a human boy and an alien from a far

187
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 5: away galaxy are emotionally connected. The Spielberg who directed ET

188
00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 5: is still very much present for AI, artificial intelligence tapped

189
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 5: into another book, who has all the needs of the

190
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,439
Speaker 5: vulnerable characters in ET, only he happens to be a robot.

191
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,199
Speaker 5: The genesis of this project is over fifty years old.

192
00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,920
Speaker 5: A short story by science fiction author Brian Aldis called

193
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,560
Speaker 5: super Toys Last All Summer Long. The story was optioned

194
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 5: by Stanley Kubrick, who spent a typical eternity developing the

195
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,680
Speaker 5: project without ever getting around and making it himself, which

196
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,599
Speaker 5: happened to a few other Kubrick films that never materialized.

197
00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 5: Before he died, Kubrick made it clear that he did

198
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,680
Speaker 5: feel like Spielberg was the person to bring AI to

199
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 5: the screen, despite the massive contrast and their sensibilities. Kubrick

200
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,439
Speaker 5: was the cold clinician behind two thousand and one, a

201
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 5: space Odyssey in a clockwork Orange. Spielberg was the sentimental

202
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,680
Speaker 5: maestro behind some of the biggest blockbusters of all time.

203
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 5: This contrast is precisely what makes AI so effective and

204
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 5: perhaps so polarizing and open to interpretation. It's a bleak

205
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,600
Speaker 5: film about human nature disguised as a sentimental science fiction

206
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 5: fairy tale. Dystopian Pinocchio Hailey Joel Osmont stars as David,

207
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,840
Speaker 5: a piece of next gen technology whose Geppetto is a

208
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 5: professor and scientist played by William Hurt who has taught

209
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,360
Speaker 5: him to love In his twenty second century, where climate

210
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,839
Speaker 5: change has led to arise in sea levels that's wiped

211
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,079
Speaker 5: out coastal cities and much of the population. David's new

212
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:25,040
Speaker 5: quote unquote parents, Monica and Henry Swinton, are privileged survivors,

213
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,840
Speaker 5: but they have struggles of their own. The Swintons are

214
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 5: chosen as the perfect family for David because their own son, Martin,

215
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,440
Speaker 5: has a rare disease and is being kept in a

216
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 5: state of suspended animation in the thin hope that a

217
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,199
Speaker 5: kiro will be found In the meantime, Monica played by

218
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,640
Speaker 5: Francis O'Connor eventually overcomes her repulsion to keeping David as

219
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,920
Speaker 5: a replacement for Martin, and she warns to him over time. Eventually,

220
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,840
Speaker 5: she finally moves forward on a process called imprinting, where

221
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,920
Speaker 5: the android or mecca officially attaches to its owner and

222
00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,560
Speaker 5: vice versa. The ethics of the imprinting pro are a

223
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,640
Speaker 5: big part of the film. Quote. If a robot could

224
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,600
Speaker 5: genuinely love a person, what responsibility does that person hold

225
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,400
Speaker 5: to the mecca in return? Unquote? Humans would usually say

226
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 5: none at all. When it comes to machines. In this world,

227
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,040
Speaker 5: many meccas when they become outdated are hunted down and

228
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,240
Speaker 5: throwed into debolition shows called flesh fares. But David is different,

229
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,080
Speaker 5: and when Martin's return in a terrible accident prompts Monica

230
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,920
Speaker 5: to discard David in the forest, he sets off on

231
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,679
Speaker 5: an adventure not only to find her again, but to

232
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 5: find a blue fairy that will turn him into a

233
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,200
Speaker 5: real boy. For some of this journey, he's accompanied by

234
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,480
Speaker 5: Jude Law as Jiggilo Joe, a mecca who's also on

235
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,560
Speaker 5: the run, even though he's not as sophisticated an android

236
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,760
Speaker 5: as David. David and Monica are bonded through routine. All

237
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 5: parents can identify with that to some extent. Because domestic

238
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,680
Speaker 5: routines give structure to a child's life, an ordinary day

239
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 5: has certain expected parameters. What makes their relationship unusual is

240
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,840
Speaker 5: that Monica is playing a game of pretend with David.

241
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 5: Her real son is gone and may never come back,

242
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,679
Speaker 5: so to ease the pain of his absence, she has

243
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,960
Speaker 5: this loyal, perfect boy who can fill in those emotional

244
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,480
Speaker 5: gaps in her life. But if you fake something for

245
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,760
Speaker 5: so long, it starts to become real. Spielberg knows how

246
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 5: such fantasies work. He's been spinning them for his whole career.

247
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 5: The end of AI is its most controversial aspect, with

248
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 5: some criticizing Spielberg for engineering a happy ending. But if anything,

249
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,719
Speaker 5: it's bittersweet with the emphasis on bitter. David, Monica and

250
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,960
Speaker 5: the entire human species in the planet at large have

251
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,520
Speaker 5: been relegated to obsolescence. They can play pretend just one

252
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,600
Speaker 5: more time before the lights go out.

253
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,600
Speaker 12: When Mother's Day means celebrating your mom, your wife, maybe

254
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,760
Speaker 12: even your daughter as a new mom, trust one eight

255
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 12: hundred Flowers to help you celebrate every important woman in

256
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 12: your life with double blooms. From one eight hundred flowers,

257
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 12: order one dozen roses and get another dozen for free.

258
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,200
Speaker 12: It's a simple way to give beautifully with colorful blooms

259
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,559
Speaker 12: that make Mother's Day feel meaningful for every mom you're celebrating.

260
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,720
Speaker 12: Order with confidence and get double blooms at one hundred

261
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,200
Speaker 12: flowers dot com slash spotify. That's one in hundred flowers

262
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,679
Speaker 12: dot com slash spotify.

263
00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 6: Is it a game? Now?

264
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,640
Speaker 13: I'm going to read some words and they won't make

265
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 13: any sense, but I want you to listen to them

266
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 13: anyway and look at me all the time.

267
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:43,480
Speaker 6: Can you do that? Yes, Monica. Can you feel my

268
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 6: hand on the back of your neck?

269
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:46,280
Speaker 7: Yes?

270
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,000
Speaker 6: Does any of this hurt? No?

271
00:14:50,920 --> 00:15:19,640
Speaker 14: Okay, now look at me ready, Cyrus Socrates, particle decibel, hurricane, dolphin.

272
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 6: Tout Monica, Dina fit Monica?

273
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:46,480
Speaker 5: All right?

274
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 6: I wonder if I did that right? What were those

275
00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 6: words for money? What did you so?

276
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 5: Discussion around AI has always been intense, even before the

277
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 5: film came out, and certainly afterwards. What about this film

278
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 5: evokes such a strong response? And where do you stand

279
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 5: on it? Tasha? Let's just let's see, I'm just kidding.

280
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 5: Let's just get right, let's just jump right into the

281
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 5: end of the waters here.

282
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,280
Speaker 2: Just do you just want to pull the heart plug

283
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:28,840
Speaker 2: right away and bleed out, don't you?

284
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 5: That's right.

285
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 2: I feel like part of the reason the movie inspires

286
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 2: such an extreme response is because people just think of

287
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,479
Speaker 2: Stanley Kubrick and Steven Spielberg as coming from roughly opposite

288
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 2: angles of cinema and to a certain kind of film snob.

289
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 2: I think just knowing that Steven Spielberg finished a Stanley

290
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,480
Speaker 2: Kubrick movie is like, I don't know, talking about a

291
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 2: team up, like a culinary team up between I don't

292
00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 2: know Joel Rubischan and Ronald McDonald. There's just sort of

293
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:06,399
Speaker 2: a feeling of, you know, how Donald, I know you

294
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 2: love Ronald McDonald's culinary endeavors Scott, but try to stay with.

295
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,119
Speaker 5: You theists here.

296
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,920
Speaker 2: I think that there's just a rebellion against that kind

297
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 2: of thing. You know, people people hold Stanley Kubrick to

298
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 2: a certain standard. They put them on high, high platform,

299
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 2: and there's that feeling of whatever he would have done,

300
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 2: it would have been better than this, precisely because we

301
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 2: can't have it.

302
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 13: You know.

303
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 2: It's like Hodorowsky's Dune. Like it's not that anybody necessarily

304
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 2: hates Denis Villeneuve's version of Dune, but in their imaginations,

305
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,080
Speaker 2: the version that they can't have and we'll never see

306
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 2: is like a completely different animal. That is something you

307
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 2: can like pin expectations on and get excited about. So

308
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,199
Speaker 2: I feel like maybe that was part of it. But

309
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,520
Speaker 2: another part of it is this is a really dense

310
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,800
Speaker 2: and dynamic movie. There's a lot going on here, and

311
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,320
Speaker 2: it was just it was destined to rough lot of

312
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 2: feathers to get a lot of attention for all of

313
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 2: the things that's doing visually and conceptually, Like it's destined

314
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 2: to be a divisive movie. It's full of arguments that

315
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 2: seem designed to provoke arguments, I think in a really

316
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 2: cool way, to be honest. But then you have the

317
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 2: tonal shift at the end, which I'm sure we'll get into,

318
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,199
Speaker 2: which was a hugely divisive, And I think just on

319
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,480
Speaker 2: top of everything else, there's a feeling that anytime you

320
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,880
Speaker 2: have a movie that centers on a child or an

321
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 2: animal in danger, it's going to heighten people's emotions. So

322
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 2: there's a whole lot of stuff going on here. I

323
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 2: think that helped heighten the discourse around this movie. For myself,

324
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 2: I think I was pretty disaffected with it when I

325
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 2: originally saw it, and it landed a lot better for

326
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 2: me this time around. For the most part, I was

327
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 2: really surprised at the visuals, honestly, how well they've held

328
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,880
Speaker 2: up over time, how like strain and distinctive and interesting

329
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 2: they look what Spielberg's look at the future looks like

330
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 2: in this case. But I also find myself just taking

331
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 2: a lot of notes because the movie throws so many

332
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 2: things out, so many like conceptual and philosophical and argumentative ideas,

333
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 2: so many glimpses at what the future of the human

334
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,439
Speaker 2: race might look at and some of these thoughts are

335
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 2: just very, very big and very heady, and honestly, I

336
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 2: think if I didn't have such a problem with the ending,

337
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 2: I would think that if the film was an outright masterpiece.

338
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 2: I am still processing, I think revisiting it just because

339
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 2: there's so much going on. So I feel like the

340
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,120
Speaker 2: bulk of the movie gets one grade and the ending

341
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 2: for me gets another. But I'm curious how it landed

342
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 2: as a whole for other people here, I this sol.

343
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 9: Is not right masterpiece, and the ending is one of

344
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 9: the best parts of it.

345
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 2: I oh, dear God, we're going to fight.

346
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 9: Well, we don't have to fight, we can to discuss.

347
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 9: I am no. I love this movie. It's I think

348
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,320
Speaker 9: it's top tier Spielberg one of the best films of

349
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 9: this century. And get I think I get more out

350
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,199
Speaker 9: of it every time I watch it. This time just

351
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 9: you know, I love the whole thing. But the opening sequence,

352
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 9: from the opening through the I'm sorry I never told

353
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 9: you about the world is just is an emotional gun

354
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 9: punch for me, and in part because it is you know,

355
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 9: you do have a kid in danger. But I also

356
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 9: feel like on a really fundamental level. This is a

357
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 9: film that kind of sees emotions and attachments and maybe

358
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 9: even just the idea of humanity itself is kind of

359
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 9: a curse as a burden that that you're you know,

360
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 9: you carry with you and maybe never really find a

361
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,239
Speaker 9: way to not to be weighed down by you know,

362
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 9: this is a kid who this is a being who

363
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,919
Speaker 9: becomes different and more vulnerable and you know, more human.

364
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 9: But the moment he bonds with his mother quote unquote mother,

365
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 9: but also what does that get him? And he gets

366
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 9: a quote unquote lifetime or many lifetimes if you if

367
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 9: you measured in human terms of suffering and want and need.

368
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 9: And in the end he gets a moment in which

369
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 9: with the moment he's always wanted, but it's no more

370
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 9: real for him than he was for his mother. It's

371
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 9: rough stuff and it's tough stuff too. I think there's

372
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 9: a lot to unpack here and it's you know, I

373
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 9: think it's a fantastic movie. Yeah.

374
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 10: My response to your question, Scott, of what about this

375
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 10: film evoks such a strong response was for Tasha kind

376
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 10: of said it much more eloquently in depth that I

377
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 10: would have. Was just because it's somewhere between three to

378
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 10: four movies and one and if you don't like any

379
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 10: part of any of those movies, it might kind of

380
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 10: throw you off. Really, there's three acts, like three big

381
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 10: acts here, and they're all very different from each other,

382
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 10: and the connective tissue between them is very thematically strong,

383
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 10: and we obviously have the Pinocchio motif carrying through it

384
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 10: as well, but the tone of those three parts all

385
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 10: feels so different, The visuals are all so different. It

386
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 10: does kind of feel like there's some a little bit

387
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 10: of maybe whiplash moments throughout this film that again, the

388
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 10: ending being the strongest one, to the point where like

389
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 10: had I saw this movie when it came out in theaters.

390
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 10: I knew I had seen it, I had like mental

391
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 10: images of it, but I had never revisited it, And

392
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 10: coming into this rewatch, I was like finding myself second guessing, like, wait,

393
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 10: did I see this movie? Like I know I remember

394
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 10: Hailey Joel Osmond, but like, this is not what I

395
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 10: was thinking of when I was thinking of AI, you know.

396
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 10: So watching it this time and like seeing how it

397
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 10: fit together was really interesting, and I think I maybe

398
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,120
Speaker 10: wasn't quite able to hook into the emotion of it

399
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 10: as strongly as I might be able to honor rewatch

400
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 10: where I wasn't like where I didn't feel so off

401
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 10: balance so much, you're off the film in terms of

402
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 10: the tone of it. But like I'll second everything that's

403
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 10: been said about the visuals. I loved watching this film,

404
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 10: like I love the experience of watching it, even if

405
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 10: I did feel a little unmoored at times from what

406
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 10: I was seeing. The metaphor I actually came up with them.

407
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 10: I was talking to my husband about it is. It

408
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 10: reminds me of the famous the Ohioans will will appreciate this,

409
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 10: the famous wooden roller coaster, The Beast, which is the

410
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 10: longest roller coaster wooden roller coaster in the world. It

411
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 10: has all these like really cool and bounty pushing for

412
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 10: the time elements to it, and it's like so cool

413
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 10: when you're on and it just keeps going and you

414
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 10: never wanted to end. But then when you get off,

415
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 10: you're like, oh, that was a really bumpy ride. My

416
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 10: pass hurts so much, like you know, like at the

417
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 10: end of you're like, huh, okay, that was a lot

418
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 10: of movie, you know, and I'm feeling it. So that

419
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 10: was kind of my my experience of a. I I

420
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 10: I did enjoy it, but like Tosh, I think I'm

421
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 10: still processing it on a emotional level because I was

422
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 10: so fixated on trying to track it on like a

423
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 10: filmmaking level.

424
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 9: The East it also takes you and takes you to

425
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 9: the forest to kind of like its own world.

426
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 5: Running with this metaphor, I know, wait a minute, Okay,

427
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 5: sorry that I'm completely thrown off. I like this. We

428
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 5: should bring in more Cedar Point.

429
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 9: The King's Island, King's Island, the Superior, the two.

430
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 5: I will have absolutely ridiculous think that nobody thinks.

431
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 2: I'm going to sit over here and be from the

432
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: East Coast.

433
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is this we were. We've rapidly pivoted into

434
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 5: a into a It's.

435
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 10: Part of the podcast is going to delight Dan the

436
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 10: Bake Jakes.

437
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: It's also going to make up for all of the

438
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: Hello Fresh and and Blue Apron sponsors that we lost

439
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: with the opening where we're just gonna get King's Point

440
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 2: to sponsors from now on.

441
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 5: King's Point Point whatever. What about Geagua Lake? Do you

442
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 5: remember that? And it's closed down now? Geagua Lake. You

443
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 5: would have to be I would have to be fifty

444
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 5: years old to remember that, all right?

445
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 9: So one more thing, was Cedar Point ever featured in

446
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 9: an episode of The Brady Bunch because the Kings Kings

447
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 9: coming thick claim to fame and I don't think Cedar

448
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 9: Point can argument settled?

449
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: Do you want ants? Because this is how we get

450
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: podcasts that are longer than movies.

451
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 10: It's a bonus episode to come. Well.

452
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 5: I found this movie to be much like The Screaming Demon.

453
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 5: Anyway you go up, you go through the around, the

454
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 5: loop and the forward, and then you go back backwards

455
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 5: to the loop. Actually, I guess it's more like Memento

456
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 5: or something or anyway. Uh so uh As for my

457
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 5: reaction to AI, I think it's all kind of in

458
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 5: the keynote, So maybe we don't need to dwell on

459
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 5: it that much. I do love this movie. I found it.

460
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 5: I find that I connect with it more and more

461
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 5: every time time I watch it. Certainly, you know, I

462
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 5: have a particular attachment to it as a father that

463
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 5: I did not have back in you know, two thousand

464
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 5: and one, right or two thousand one, and so there's that,

465
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 5: and I also think like this, I think that that

466
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 5: we've almost we're almost kind of catching up with it.

467
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 5: Technology wise, specifically with this that idea of imprinting, it

468
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 5: almost feels more intuitive to us now the way we

469
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 5: kind of connect ourselves to devices, and those devices are

470
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 5: are kind of an extension of ourselves. And and it's

471
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 5: it's that that kind of an idea wasn't really present

472
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 5: as much in two thousand and one, and here it

473
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 5: just it's such a strong metaphor. I mean, it's just

474
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 5: you know, just this is the moment that imprinting happens

475
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 5: is just one of the many like tear jerking moments

476
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 5: in the film film for me, of just like the expression,

477
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 5: the change in David's eyes at that moment. Just it

478
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 5: really is such a key emotional kind of push that

479
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 5: this film gives you. And just generally I find the

480
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 5: film to be such a fascinating collaboration between a two

481
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 5: very strong visions. I mean, obviously Kubrick wasn't alive, but

482
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 5: he's certainly present in the film. And I think that

483
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 5: we can also, rather than kind of dreaming of the

484
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 5: ai that Kubrick would have made, I think we should

485
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 5: acknowledge that there are things that Spielberg can do, Feelings

486
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 5: that he can evoke, you know, connections that he has

487
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 5: to the world, to fantasy and to children and to

488
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 5: you know, things that are just not in Stanley Kubrick's

489
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 5: wheelhouse at all. So I appreciate that that the film

490
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,479
Speaker 5: both feels like a collaboration between the two of them,

491
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 5: but also has a kind of a unique tension as

492
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 5: well that makes it, I think, complicated in a great way.

493
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: I really have to wonder if Stanley Kubrick would have

494
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: been able to get the kind of performance that we

495
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: see out of Haley Joel Osment here, given his pretty

496
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 2: famously exhaustive method of dealing with actors versus I just

497
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: I read a lot of interviews with Haley joel Asma

498
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: about working with Spielberg because I was really curious what

499
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: his inner life was like making this movie. I thought

500
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: a lot watching this movie about the interviews that Sarah

501
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: Polly later gave about working with Terry Gilliam on Adventures

502
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: of Baron Munchausen, and just like what Hailey joel Osma

503
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: must have gone through making this film. But he's talked

504
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 2: a lot about how Spielberg just basically sat down and

505
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: they have very intellectual conversations about David's life and David's

506
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: capabilities and his place in the world, and I can't

507
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: think that that would have been Kubrick's approach. Like reportedly,

508
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: one of the reasons that Kubrick couldn't make his version

509
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: of AI was he just literally did not believe that

510
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: a child could give the performance that he wanted. He

511
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: wanted technology that would let him either build an actual

512
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: child robot for the role, or like the equivalent of CG,

513
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: just making a CG character in the role. And the

514
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: fact that Spielberg brought in Ozma and trusted him with

515
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: this role, I think maybe is a leap that only

516
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: he could have made. And God, it pays off. I mean,

517
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: this is a really spectacular acting job for such a

518
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: young child. And the moment that you called out where

519
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: the imprinting process is complete and David's eyes change and

520
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: he goes from that sort of like rigid specter of

521
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: genial complacence and intense presence to being almost baffled at

522
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: the depth of the emotion. He feels that would be

523
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: a remarkable job for an adult actor to pull off.

524
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: I was stunned and moved by that, just the expression

525
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: changing on his face in that moment.

526
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think that was the moment when I turned

527
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 10: to Stephen was like, this movie couldn't have existed that

528
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 10: Paley Joel Osmond wasn't at this age, at this exact moment.

529
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 10: I feel like it's like, I mean, I'm sure there

530
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 10: are other talented actors, but just like because this was

531
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 10: was this immediately post sixth Sense, for.

532
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 9: I think he did pay it forward between those.

533
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, but I think audience has probably still probably associated

534
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 10: him most with sixth sense in the uncanniness of that character,

535
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 10: which I think probably carried over to how I mean

536
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 10: its certainly. I mean I still think of six sense

537
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 10: first and foremost when I think of Haley Joel Osmond,

538
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 10: and I think a lot of audiences at the time

539
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 10: and now probably brought that feeling that he is, you know,

540
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 10: a precocious adult and a child body type. You know,

541
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 10: that translates really well to David in his performance, which

542
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 10: is very good. But with that exception of the moment

543
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 10: of imprinting and what Osmond does in that moment, the

544
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 10: first act of the movie actually feels the most bricking

545
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 10: in to me just because of the I guess coldness

546
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 10: and just how kind of terrible humanity comes across in

547
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 10: And I think that's where I still have trouble reconciling

548
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 10: the ending and like I get it, but also I

549
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 10: don't really feel it because I spent so much of

550
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 10: this movie just being like, Wow, humans are the worst.

551
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 10: We suck, We do everything that comes to us in

552
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 10: this movie, you know, justice for David, and like the

553
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 10: fact that David is in a position where he can't

554
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 10: have any sort of the humans have put him in

555
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 10: a position where he can't be whole is just really maddening,

556
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 10: I think, to sit with through the entire movie. So

557
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 10: when you reach that resolution at the end, it does

558
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 10: feel very pat and I like your observation Scott about

559
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 10: like the artificiality of it being you know, the idea.

560
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 10: But again I think, just in terms of sitting through

561
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 10: this movie, when you reach that point, at least for me,

562
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 10: it felt very at odds with like the feelings I

563
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 10: had toward humans throughout this entire film.

564
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 5: Is it Monica an exception?

565
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 10: Though?

566
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 5: I mean, what what does Monaca do? That's what does

567
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 5: Monica do. That's the fact that.

568
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 10: She imprints on him in the first place, Like, I mean,

569
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 10: I guess that's like an even the garden, you know,

570
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 10: the moment, you know, that's like original said, good, but.

571
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 5: I don't think but I think her actions her. I mean,

572
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 5: she does feel like she does like having him around,

573
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 5: and she and she does.

574
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 10: It's a purely selfish action.

575
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 2: Though like a selfish action, it comes across as ill considered.

576
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: She's spent very little time with him, and most of

577
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: that time she's spent protesting, and it feels like when

578
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: she does it, even the garden is a great metaphor

579
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: for it, it feels more like she's curious than like

580
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: she's committing. It feels like somebody who brings a you know,

581
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: a bunny home for Easter because it's she's thinks it'll

582
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: provoke a fun reaction, but is not thinking about the

583
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: life of that punny. Like she's been warned this thing

584
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: will last forever and will love you forever. And I

585
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: don't think that there's anything on screen that suggests she's

586
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: even thought seriously about that commitment and what she's doing.

587
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 9: I love the end of actually agree with what you're saying, Tasha.

588
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 9: I feel like it's not Monica at the end. It's

589
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 9: his idea of Monica, which is better than actually better

590
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 9: than Monica ever actually could be. Its uncomplicated and paying

591
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 9: attention to him and and you know, projecting you know,

592
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 9: as much a simulation of love as you know, reflecting

593
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 9: his own idea of love back to him in a

594
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 9: way that he needs. But it's not her. It's better

595
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 9: than her, at least it's better to him than she

596
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 9: ever was.

597
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: I don't want to get into the ending yet, because

598
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: that's there's so much of the film that we should

599
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 2: talk about first, and it's such a can of worms.

600
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: I'm literally just talking about the moment where she chooses

601
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: to make a permanent decision for someone who has no

602
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: choice himself, and she does it in what seems like

603
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 2: a rushed and cavalier way. I don't think that the

604
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: movie sets her up as somebody who has is ready

605
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: for this decision or makes it with the kind of

606
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 2: thought that it clearly needs given all the warnings. And

607
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 2: I agree with Johavie. I just think that this movie

608
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: shows humanity as selfish and shortsighted and consumeristic and greedy

609
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: and a whole lot of other ugly things.

610
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 10: Well, and even that opening scene with William Hurt where

611
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 10: he's like talking about about doing this and he's the

612
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 10: one who invokes God and Adam, you know, like this

613
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 10: film is literally setting up the idea that humans are

614
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 10: playing god here and they're toying with something that's beyond them.

615
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 10: And I think like the Monica imprinting thing could have

616
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 10: worked if the whole movie was like just that, you know,

617
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 10: but it does happen really fast, Like it goes from

618
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 10: David entering their home and then being like really unnerved

619
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 10: by him. And as Tasha pointed out on Twitter today,

620
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 10: and this almost like horror movie vibe.

621
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: It's almost straight up.

622
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 10: We said the same thing when we were watching it

623
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 10: very much. And again that's kind of where I get

624
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 10: the Kubrick feeling in the first act a lot more,

625
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 10: not that Spielberg can't do that to too, but anyway,

626
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 10: I digress. And it seems like the correct me if

627
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 10: I'm wrong, but it feels like the moment that turns

628
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 10: for turns it for her is just like putting him

629
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 10: to bed and reading him a story and reminding her

630
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 10: of Martin, and that just doesn't maybe and also maybe

631
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 10: like him laughing at the dinner table, which is like

632
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 10: really creepy and I don't understand why that is supposed

633
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 10: to me endearing. But and then all of a sudden

634
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 10: like okay, she's ready to imprint on him, and it just

635
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 10: feels like a shift that happens a little too quickly

636
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 10: for it to not come across as cavalier.

637
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 9: On her part.

638
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 5: Uh, Monica innocent, but I'm going to make an argument.

639
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 5: I'll make an argument for Monica after this break.

640
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 7: The right window treatments change everything, your sleep, your privacy,

641
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 7: the way every room looks and feels. At blinds dot com,

642
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 7: we've spent thirty years making it surprisingly simple to get

643
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 7: exactly what your home needs. We've covered over twenty five

644
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 7: million windows and have fifty thousand five star reviews to

645
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 7: prove we deliver. Whether you di I, wyatt, or want

646
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 7: a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we

647
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 7: have you covered real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure.

648
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 7: Right now get up to fifty percent off with minimum

649
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 7: purchase plus get a free professional measure at blinds dot com.

650
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 7: Rules and restrictions apply.

651
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 10: I'll listen.

652
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: No, take it all, right, take this, don't let anyone

653
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: see how much it is.

654
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 6: Right.

655
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 10: Oh, look, don't go that way, or look, don't look

656
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 10: at that.

657
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 2: Look don't go that way or right, go anywhere but

658
00:36:58,320 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: that way.

659
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 14: You'll let catch you, Let them catch you.

660
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 10: Listen. Stay away from flesh, bears, away from there are

661
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 10: lots of people.

662
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 7: Stay away from all people.

663
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 10: Only others like you, only Mecca are safe. Okay, Why

664
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 10: why you want to leave me? I'm sorry, I'm not

665
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 10: really If you let me, I'll be so real for you.

666
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 6: God, I'm sorry I didn't tell you about the world.

667
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 5: Okay. So I don't want to close the door on

668
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 5: the whole Monica thing yet because because because I think

669
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 5: that if you're if you are talking about her as

670
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 5: Eve in the garden, you associate Eve with uh, well,

671
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 5: sin potentially, but also curiosity. That is this, that is

672
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 5: the sin. She does not necessarily know the implications of

673
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 5: what she is doing. I think there's a degree to

674
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 5: what she feels comforted and by the ritual of being

675
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 5: a mother, is willing to play pretend with this super toy,

676
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 5: and that's a very human thing. And I think there's

677
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 5: I think there is something, there is something that genuine

678
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 5: that does develop between them, and I think her actions

679
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 5: from that point forward with trying to integrate him into

680
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 5: the family, with trying to have him be in the

681
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 5: family when the sun makes his return, and then of

682
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 5: course the decision to sort of deposit him in the forest.

683
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 5: All of that is very irrational to me, you know,

684
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 5: and her reaction to it is not cold, it's very

685
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 5: It's an incredibly upsetting scene. So I think if you're

686
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 5: perhaps we can throw much of humanity into the garbage here,

687
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 5: but I'm not. I'm Monica's someone innocent for me.

688
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 10: We can agree Martin sucks though.

689
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, he's awful.

690
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 5: Just the kids should have just stayed in suspended animation forever.

691
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 10: And honestly, let's not let Henry off the hook here either,

692
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 10: because he probably has the biggest like like he's the

693
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 10: one who brings it to her in the first.

694
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 5: Place, classic like dad quick fix thing like come on,

695
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 5: I just you know, can we be done with this now,

696
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 5: this whole But.

697
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,439
Speaker 2: It's also very much implied. I think that he's doing

698
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: it to get a head at work, that he thinks

699
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 2: that this will get him an edge at his job,

700
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 2: and he seems to have very little patience with Monica's

701
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: very real human response at being alone in the house

702
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: with this incredibly uncanny at first object that's meant to

703
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: make a human child in ways that unnerve her. He

704
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 2: really just kind of wants everybody to cooperate and get

705
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: along so he can get a promotion. It seems like I.

706
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 9: Love the detail of David referring to Monica as mommy,

707
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, Henry.

708
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:38,919
Speaker 5: Yeah.

709
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 10: And it doesn't happen until after the imprinting, right, yeah.

710
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and at which point it becomes clear that this

711
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: robot was apparently designed to imprint only on one person,

712
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: which in a family, like the fact that it was

713
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: designed for that specifically is just really telling about how

714
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: short sighted and off base the design is, just in

715
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: terms of how it's supposed to integrate. I don't want

716
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: to be too harsh on Martin, who does terrible things

717
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 2: and terrible things result, but he is, after all a child,

718
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 2: and a child who has been through a tremendous trauma

719
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 2: and has been replaced in his absence, and has very also,

720
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 2: very clearly been conditioned, probably by Henry, maybe by society.

721
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 2: There's a lot that we learn about this world. I

722
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: think through the way Martin speaks of David, you know,

723
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: his understanding of what mecca are, and how he sees

724
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: David as just another toy that's been brought home for him,

725
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: that has maybe has already Obsoleste and is interesting the

726
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: way the Teddy Bear is to him. So like, obviously

727
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: he gets all of our nerves up because he's abusing

728
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 2: and damaging this character that we immediately feel for on Screw,

729
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 2: but he is also just being a little boy, like

730
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: testing the boundaries and trying to come to terms with

731
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: a form of sibling rivalry, like a form of jealousy

732
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: that comes heavily complicated with the fact that the thing

733
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 2: in his house that looks like a child is also

734
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: a toaster as far as he's concerned, to be very

735
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: battlestargal actic go about.

736
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 5: It, well, let's take this. I wanted to take a

737
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 5: step back then, because you know, maybe this will get

738
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 5: us into a little bit of the second act of

739
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 5: the film, introduction of Jude Law and just with the

740
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 5: world outside of this bubble in which you know, Monica

741
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 5: and David and Henry and Martin Nurse are operating in

742
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 5: in the first third of the film. Ya, what do

743
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 5: you make of the world of the film as as

744
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 5: it's revealed through that second act?

745
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 2: Can I before we transition, and maybe as part of

746
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: that transition, just call something out that I think is

747
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 2: really significant. When Martin comes home. He is wearing an

748
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 2: oxygen mask, he's an wheelchair, he's completely unresponsive. When we

749
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 2: next see him, he's wearing artificial robotic prosthetic supports for

750
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: his limbs. When we see him again after that, the

751
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: supports are gone, but he's watching other children play with

752
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: obvious like bitter jealousy because it and it becomes it's

753
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 2: very clear that he's not allowed to participate in anything

754
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 2: that that physically active. The movie never comments on any

755
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: of this, None of it is spelled out. We're just

756
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: left to into it, the passage of time and the

757
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: development of his body after this disease, and as you

758
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: ask about the world and what we learn about it

759
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 2: in the second act, I feel like so much of

760
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: this film operates on that level. There are so many

761
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: things that we're just left to into it for ourselves

762
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 2: to see on screen without anybody explaining to us and

763
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: spelling things out for us. And I think the world

764
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 2: building here is just remarkable, and how much of it

765
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 2: is communicated in that kind of way, just through the

766
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: progression of things happening on screen over time or via

767
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 2: progressions from place to place. I really think that a

768
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: lot of thought went into this that is part of

769
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: the storytelling in a really subtle way that I just

770
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 2: love to see on screen.

771
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 9: The fact that we don't see anyone but elites until

772
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 9: you get to the Flesh Fair, and even that's really

773
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 9: the only time we see people who obviously don't have

774
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 9: a lot of money, isn't that segment? I mean, I

775
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 9: guess that may not be true of Rudge City. We

776
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 9: don't see enough. It's a CD details, but like you know,

777
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 9: blue collar, working class people are only seen in that

778
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 9: one section, and they are angry and left out. I

779
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 9: mean it felt, you know, a gaple aps between the

780
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 9: first time I saw this and then later I was like,

781
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 9: oh wow, this is this is like tea party people

782
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 9: you know, before that even happened. And the fact that

783
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 9: the song that Ministry performs, the industrial band UH performs

784
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 9: it is called what about Us, which is also a

785
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 9: line of dialogue from the film. And these are people

786
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 9: that either forgotten people, and the film keeps them in

787
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 9: the margins. I think somewhat somewhat pointedly too, because this

788
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 9: is a world that has been you know, wrecked for all,

789
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 9: but people who can't afford to live in the kind

790
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 9: of bubble we see early on yeah, and it's it.

791
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 2: Made clear via some of the dialogue and behavior at

792
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: the Flesh Fair that these are also people who've had

793
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: their livelihoods threatened by the arrival of robots, by jobs

794
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 2: just being taken away from them and them not having

795
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 2: as many options as they used to. Even in a

796
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: depopulated world, even in a world that seems to need people,

797
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 2: it is communicated that it doesn't need them. Although I

798
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: think it's a really interesting touch that, you know, the

799
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: the depiction of blue collar people in films these days

800
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: can be very fraught and politicized. I think it's interesting

801
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 2: here that we're kind of invited to see them as monsters,

802
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 2: and then we're immediately we have a shift where we're

803
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: invited to note that they have more empathy than a

804
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: lot of the people on screen who are manipulating them

805
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 2: and profiting off of them. They have an immediate empathetic

806
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: reaction to a child that goes beyond philosophy. They have

807
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 2: an immediate protective feeling towards him, and there's just that

808
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,760
Speaker 2: feeling there of you know, they may be rough and rowdy,

809
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 2: but like they've still got a lot more empathy and

810
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 2: human feeling than some people in this world.

811
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 5: See.

812
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 10: I think that was maybe one moment that kind of

813
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 10: felt a little at odds to me with what we've

814
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 10: seen what the movie has shown us so far as

815
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 10: far as humans relationship to Mecca, where they you know,

816
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 10: rise to the defense of David as a whole. You know,

817
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 10: there are no dissenters among them, and to go back

818
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 10: kind of to the just the death of the world

819
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,240
Speaker 10: building here. One of the things I really enjoy about

820
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 10: the second act is just the variety of Mecca that

821
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 10: we see, and like how it illustrates the multiple generations

822
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 10: and iterations of this tech that humanity has made and

823
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 10: lived with for years decades at this point, I don't

824
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 10: know if we get like an exact timeline, but like,

825
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 10: this is a antagonistic relationship that is like fomented over

826
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 10: years and years, and you can see it in this

827
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 10: these roving bands of outdated Mecca looking for you know,

828
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 10: spare parts and so and the idea of a flesh

829
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 10: fare to begin with, and it just it strikes me

830
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 10: as a little too much of a stretch to believe

831
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 10: in the context of what we've been shown that the

832
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 10: newest version of this tech that humans have seen improve

833
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 10: and displace them over and over and over again, that

834
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 10: no one would be alarmed or feared that simply because

835
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 10: it takes the form of a child. Like obviously Brendan

836
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 10: Gleeson's character is supposed to be a monster, but someone

837
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 10: in that audience presumably shares his feelings, you know. But

838
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 10: I think, like the reason I had that feeling is

839
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 10: reflective of the depth of world building in this movie.

840
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 10: And just to like take a quick step backward to

841
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 10: the introduction of Jude Law, I love that like five

842
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 10: minutes we get with with Jigglow Joe, just his introduction,

843
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 10: and like there's a whole movie in there with him

844
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,240
Speaker 10: being framed for murder and canreco call the tone showing

845
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 10: up very very briefly, there's like a whole like Blade

846
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 10: Runner movie in there or something, and it's just so

847
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 10: it tells us so much about this particular corner of

848
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 10: the Mecca universe and how humans interact with it here

849
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 10: that is very different from what we've been experiencing for

850
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 10: the first act of this movie. And I think in

851
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 10: that moment it just feels like the world opens up

852
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 10: in this really exciting way that continues through the flesh

853
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 10: Fair sequence.

854
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: As to the flush fair response to David, I just

855
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 2: think they don't believe that he's a robot. You know,

856
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 2: somebody in the audience screams like bots don't plead for

857
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: their lives. I think they authentically refuse to believe that

858
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: Brendan Gleeson has found a humanoid robot, and in spite

859
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: of his appeal to their intellect, their baseline feeling is

860
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: I'm seeing a child being threatened with death, and that's

861
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 2: why they stand up for him.

862
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 10: I guess I can see that.

863
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think if they really believed he was

864
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 2: a robot, their responses probably would be different as you describe.

865
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 10: But again, no one in the audience believed it.

866
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: I mean probably some did, and they just weren't the

867
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: loudest voices. That's just sort of that's how mobs were.

868
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 5: I to say, angry mobs, you know, they just they

869
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 5: It is a literal mob mentality. There's a ton of

870
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 5: stuff to talk about with this movie. Maybe we can

871
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 5: talk about it through the prism of the ending, because

872
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 5: the ending is something that was you know, maybe the

873
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 5: reason why this was as controversial as it was, or

874
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 5: just discussed as it was. Interpretations of that ending have

875
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 5: a very high range of uh, you know, I was

876
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 5: curious just just to hear what your interpretations of that

877
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 5: ending are on top of what you feel about it.

878
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 5: So let's let's get into that now.

879
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: Well, Keith loves it, I hate it. I kind of

880
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: want to hear first, like, where do you and Genevieve

881
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 2: stand specifically on the ending?

882
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 10: Well, like I said, I think I'm still processing it.

883
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 10: I definitely didn't hate it. I think everything up to

884
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 10: the Resurrection of Monica or Monica Light as it were,

885
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 10: is wow again, feels like another movie, a very interesting

886
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 10: movie that I would like to see more of, you know,

887
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 10: and like the Aliens are cool and I in the Aliens.

888
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 9: They're they're evolved artificial intelligence.

889
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 2: So completely forgotten about this, but apparently there's a huge

890
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 2: debate over that. That was one of the big arguments

891
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: about the ending, And unless you have evidence this, Fielberg

892
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 2: came out and specifically said one way or the other.

893
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 2: I think it's definitely something that people have felt very

894
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 2: very strongly about on both sides.

895
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 9: I don't know where I settled on a being definitively AI.

896
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 9: I just think maybe it works better that way because

897
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 9: I feel so much of it. They're very interested in

898
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 9: humanity in the sense of there To me, in a way,

899
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,439
Speaker 9: it feels like they're investigating their own origins and what's

900
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 9: valuable to them about David as he knew real humans.

901
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 9: I see these as the descendants of David, and I

902
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 9: think that's more interesting, you know, even if the ambiguity

903
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 9: is there, and that's fine for me, it's more interesting

904
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 9: as this being many generations down the line from David

905
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 9: kind of looking for their own sense of where they

906
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 9: come from and perhaps a sense of meaning in a

907
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 9: way that suggests that the AI could develop, you know,

908
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 9: the the idea of like humans longing for understanding on

909
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,959
Speaker 9: ais need to be loved or to emulate humanity has

910
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 9: been resolved in some way in the future. To me,

911
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 9: that's that's the way I see it anyway.

912
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, And then that's interesting because I was I was

913
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 10: unaware of this ambiguity when I watched it. But I

914
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 10: also like my perception of them as aliens came from

915
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 10: the exact scene in line that you quote of David

916
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 10: being the last to know humans, and I interpreted that

917
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 10: more in an anthropological sense, like, you know, like this

918
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 10: is a different race that is curious about humans not

919
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 10: necessarily like their own history. But I definitely see that argument,

920
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 10: and it makes it a lot more interesting for me.

921
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 9: I'll throw in a visual detail that kind of supports

922
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 9: it too. When we first see David, it's through like

923
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 9: he's like a blurry shadow, but the blurry shadow is

924
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 9: more or less the same shape as the creatures, whatever

925
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 9: we call them we see at the end.

926
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, I think there is an ambiguity

927
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 2: there that Spielberg doesn't spell out, and that you're allowed

928
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: to read either way. And I don't think on some

929
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 2: level that it matters, at least not in a way

930
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 2: to fight about. I think all interpretations are valid here.

931
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: I think it is clear that they are mechanistic creatures

932
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 2: of some kind, and I think it's kind of six

933
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 2: and one half a dozen of the other, whether they're

934
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 2: specifically descended from Earth robots or they're robots that evolved

935
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 2: like on a parallel planet. I think that what's significant

936
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: is really their empathy for machine life, and I think

937
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 2: that that's just a really interesting touch that shapes the

938
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:04,439
Speaker 2: whole thing and exactly what the intent of that is

939
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 2: in terms of whether it comes more of a curiosity

940
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: about their roots or curiosity about another species that's gone,

941
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 2: I think is beside the point. The point is that

942
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 2: they have more of an intellectual curiosity and sympathy than

943
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 2: the actual living humans we've seen throughout the film for

944
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: the most part. You know, they're benevolent, and whether they're

945
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: benevolent aliens or benevolent robots or benevolent robot aliens, the

946
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 2: point is that they're just they're not humans. They're on

947
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: some level like better, you know, smarter, kinder, and certainly

948
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: more capable of sharing. The sequence where one of them

949
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: takes David's memories and is examining them, and each of

950
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: them just sort of steps up to touch the next

951
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 2: one in line and form a chain, and they all

952
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 2: share those memories again like storytelling without explaining, and it's

953
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 2: just a beautiful compact visual that kind of tells a

954
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: lot about these things community and their level of interest

955
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 2: in things, and their their ability to to just kind

956
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 2: of all live in the same space. I don't know,

957
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 2: I find it. I find it fascinating and just kind

958
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 2: of a further iteration of you know, Spielberg's obvious interest

959
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 2: in alien life. If you take Close Encounters as an example,

960
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: and any t.

961
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 5: I mean, I think there's an idea in both in

962
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 5: et and in close encounters of of you know, we

963
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 5: we we of course respect the intelligence of non human

964
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 5: beings to travel through space and and uh that sort

965
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 5: of uh business. But but there's an emotional intelligence that

966
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 5: Spielberg kind of locks onto as well, a different type

967
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 5: of an enhanced you know, empathy. I guess that they're that,

968
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 5: you know, they perhaps are better than the the are

969
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 5: the sort of messy lot of humanity. But in a way,

970
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 5: like that element of it, the setup of that, it's

971
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 5: just not it doesn't resonate with me as much as

972
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 5: just the ritual part of it. I just and and again,

973
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 5: in terms of you talking about a film sort of

974
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 5: changing over time, what I lock into changing for me

975
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 5: over time is like, you know, I really lock into

976
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 5: how the mirror, how the ending sort of mirrors in it,

977
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 5: you know. And maybe it's a distorted way that the

978
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 5: first third, the ritual of the rituals of parenthood, and

979
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 5: how that how those are imbued with meaning, because I

980
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 5: mean again, when you're when you're in the middle of it,

981
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 5: I mean, that's what parenting is. It's just it's just

982
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 5: it's it's it is about just routine and and and

983
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 5: if you and you find some sort of comfort and

984
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 5: meaning in those routines and little breaks in those routines,

985
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 5: and that's what it is. That's what that relationship is.

986
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 5: And to see so to see that kind of like

987
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 5: day in the life be both normal, like normal quote

988
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 5: unquote normal and also kind of idealized in a way

989
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 5: that that's slightly, slightly and almost sort of touchingly false.

990
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 5: That gets to me so much. And just also, you know,

991
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 5: getting to this point, you know, we're we're everything that

992
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 5: we've built here, humanity itself, the planet are all of

993
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 5: our you know, the structures, I mean, everything's gone. You know,

994
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 5: it's just like that. It just feels like this, it's

995
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,399
Speaker 5: such a lonely moment. It's such a bleak moment. Even

996
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 5: though even though I think you could also even though

997
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 5: I think I was read as kind of Spielberg, you know,

998
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 5: throwing kind of a hail Mary pass of sentimentality at

999
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 5: the end of a bleak movie, I don't feel like

1000
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 5: that's it at all. I feel like it's, like I said,

1001
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,800
Speaker 5: on the bitter side of Bittersweet.

1002
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 2: Well, Spielberg, it just like factually that isn't true. So, like,

1003
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,399
Speaker 2: I know that that's something that that people have said

1004
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: about it a lot. But you know, Spielberg's done interviews

1005
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 2: about this, and he said, like that whole ending is

1006
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 2: one hundred percent Kubrick. It's it's straight out of Kuberg's script.

1007
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 2: He says, a lot of the darkest stuff in this

1008
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: movie came from him himself, and a lot of the

1009
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 2: stuff people tagged as Spielbergian sentimentality, including the entire ending,

1010
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: is pure Stanley Kubrick. Now, I think all of it

1011
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: would have played differently directed by Stanley Kubrick. But you

1012
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: curtly certainly can't say, as so many critics did in

1013
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 2: print back at in the Day, that this is like

1014
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 2: a an artificial ending that he imposed after the real

1015
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: Kubrick version ended underwater at kind of at the end

1016
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 2: of time.

1017
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 9: To me, it's it's quite bleak. I mean, I think

1018
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 9: goes beyond better and bittersweet. I think what you get

1019
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 9: is this, although the creatures do talk about being able

1020
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 9: to resurrect humans, it's not going very clearly, not going

1021
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 9: very well. It's not entirely successful. But I feel like

1022
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 9: what we're getting with this David interacting with his some

1023
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 9: version of his mother. I mean it's like a it's

1024
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 9: like a you know, in the darkness that's become that

1025
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 9: humanity has becomes like one last match has been found

1026
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 9: and it's lit, and then it just kind of blows out,

1027
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 9: and that's the end, not just of David's story, but

1028
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 9: of our own.

1029
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you where my objections with the

1030
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: ending lie, and then you can tell me if these

1031
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 2: are things that just read very differently for you. I

1032
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 2: love the staging of it. I love the idea of

1033
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 2: these these anthropological aliens or robots or alien robots showing

1034
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 2: up and exhuming the past and just kind of exploring

1035
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 2: what humanity used to be. I think there's just an

1036
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 2: elegaic quality to the whole thing that's very aesthetically pleasing

1037
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 2: and also poetic. I love the design of the aliens.

1038
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 2: I love the design of their ship. That moment where

1039
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: the ship kind of touches down in the frozen underwater

1040
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 2: excavation and then just comes apart into component pieces and

1041
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: drifts away. It's just a lovely little bit of lyrical storytelling.

1042
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 2: There's so much there that I like. And Ben Kingsley

1043
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 2: is the specialist robot sitting down with David and explaining like,

1044
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: we love you and we want to give you whatever

1045
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 2: you want. I think is very touching, But the shape

1046
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 2: of the fantasy just really inherently bothers me. And that's

1047
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 2: because while it parallels the beginning in terms of here's

1048
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 2: a little domestic scene where there are two people wrapped

1049
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 2: around each other and one of them has been programmed

1050
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 2: to love the other one just completely and totally without

1051
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 2: any outside interference. The thing that's been programmed in the

1052
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 2: final sequence is a person and used to be a person,

1053
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: and is now this thing whose life and autonomy has

1054
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 2: been taken away, who has been basically all the truth

1055
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 2: is being hidden from her because it might frighten her.

1056
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 2: Her husband and her child, and her past and future

1057
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 2: have been taken away. All context has been taken away.

1058
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 2: All she's allowed to do is exist for this child.

1059
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 2: And I see where that is meant to be, like

1060
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 2: a mirror reversal of the opening. But you aren't talking

1061
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 2: about something that's been invented to love. You're talking about

1062
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 2: something that used to be human and isn't anymore. And

1063
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 2: I find it again it's kind of a horror movie.

1064
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 2: And if I take it as a horror movie ending

1065
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: that's that's meant to be beyond bleak. I can almost

1066
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 2: accept it. But the way the movie treats it as

1067
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 2: this sentimental thing that David gets to experience, that's perfect.

1068
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,439
Speaker 2: I find it unnerving and just it leaves a really

1069
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:37,439
Speaker 2: bad taste in my mouth.

1070
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess I would say a nerve that

1071
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 5: you would use the word unnerving. I mean, I don't

1072
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 5: see how that's an accident. I guess, have we.

1073
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 2: Meant to see it as unnerving?

1074
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 13: Right?

1075
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: Sentimental and sweet?

1076
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 5: Right? Yes? No, I think I think you're reading it

1077
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 5: a sentimental and sweet but feeling unnerved by it. And

1078
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 5: I think that's the exact reaction thing.

1079
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 10: But I think she's unnerved by it on a storytelling

1080
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 10: level and finding it sentimental on a filmmaking level, which

1081
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 10: again kind of brings us back to the Spielberg of

1082
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 10: it all, because I agree with Tasha, like the like

1083
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 10: I did have kind of like a visceral distaste of

1084
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 10: the ending watching it and listening, like sitting through this

1085
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 10: conversation and talking it out, like, I definitely do feel

1086
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 10: better about it, just on a sort of narrative level,

1087
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 10: but I still can't shake that feeling that it wasn't

1088
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 10: sold to me that way by the film didn't present

1089
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 10: it to me that way on a visual tonal level.

1090
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 2: And the storytelling voiceover, the kind of treakly music, the

1091
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:48,439
Speaker 2: soft lit you know, soft focus cinematography, like they're all

1092
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 2: presenting a sentimentalized version of what we're getting, but we're

1093
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 2: effectively we're what we're getting is the lobotomization of a

1094
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 2: woman and the death of a child presented as a

1095
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 2: storybook ending, like a sad, ironic storybook ending, but a

1096
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 2: storybook ending.

1097
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 10: Which honestly does fit with the Pinocchio of it all.

1098
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 10: Like we when Pinocchio was a movie of the week

1099
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 10: back at that is all we kind of dug into

1100
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 10: like kind of what a horror story the original Pinocchio is,

1101
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 10: and how it's kind of like been storybook eyed over time.

1102
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 10: And we see the visualization of that story book fication

1103
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 10: in the blue ferry at Coney Island, which that paint

1104
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 10: really held up under the ice.

1105
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 2: She also was like covered in a like seaweed two

1106
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 2: thousand years ago, but like it's completely pristine now.

1107
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 9: I think if we want to pull back the camera

1108
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 9: a little bit, I mean is in some ways a

1109
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 9: film about the stories we create exactly meaning to life.

1110
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 9: If you pull back a little bit further, if I'm

1111
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 9: Not mistaken, is the narrator not also the voice of

1112
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 9: the creature voiced by Ben Kingsley. So in some ways

1113
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 9: these are the if that if I'm if I if

1114
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 9: I'm not mistaken, then you could it could be read

1115
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 9: as one of these alien slash ai whatever you know,

1116
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 9: telling us this story. This is the story that they've

1117
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 9: they've they've they've formed around what they know of David's

1118
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 9: David's life. I mean, it is, you know, it's kind

1119
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 9: of a maybe we thought we were looking at the frame,

1120
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 9: but there's actually a frame beyond that, and it is

1121
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 9: this you know, entity whatever we want to call it,

1122
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 9: telling the story all along, because he's also there at

1123
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 9: the beginning of the film and only at the beginning

1124
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 9: of the end.

1125
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: I mean, wow, if, like, if we're meant to take

1126
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 2: the whole thing as like a fairy story, that that

1127
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 2: aliens are telling themselves to put a happy gloss on

1128
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 2: this tragic and terrifying tale of souldest humans and soulless love,

1129
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 2: then like that's that's a pretty sophisticated, uh, you know,

1130
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,240
Speaker 2: dark joke for this entire movie. But I'm most just

1131
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 2: talking about what.

1132
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 9: Even if it is mine eccentric thing, I really do

1133
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 9: feel like it fits the tone of the movie.

1134
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 10: I'm really convinced, like you guys, are you guys being

1135
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 10: Keith and Scott mainly, but also Tasha and kind of

1136
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 10: around about way you are kind of bringing me around

1137
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 10: on this ending. And I will say that I think

1138
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 10: if it had done things in a totally different way

1139
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 10: and kind of committed to the bleakness and the unsettlingness

1140
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 10: of that ending on a tonal level as well as

1141
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 10: a narrative one, I think people would have disliked it

1142
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 10: even more. You know, it may have been an even

1143
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 10: more controversial ending. And the the Pinocchio thing is really

1144
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 10: kind of what is convincing me that it is purposeful.

1145
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 10: And you know, I think if any two filmmakers were

1146
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 10: going to kind of come up with that sort of tension,

1147
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 10: it would be these two.

1148
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 2: I think it's significant that we literally could talk through

1149
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 2: practically any sequence in the movie at this level of depth,

1150
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 2: just just questioning like what we're seeing and what we're

1151
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 2: feeling and how the story is being told there's there's

1152
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,919
Speaker 2: so much to this movie, and we've we've barely even

1153
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 2: scratched a surface.

1154
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 9: I think we haven't tried to unpack Joe or Teddy

1155
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 9: Teddy completely fascinating.

1156
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 2: Jimmy Cricket character. It took me a while to figure

1157
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 2: that out.

1158
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 10: But honestly, Jiggle of Joe also has like very Jimminy

1159
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 10: Cricket vibes, especially in the way that he moves through

1160
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,439
Speaker 10: the movie physically and.

1161
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 2: The way that he brings music into the movie. Yeah,

1162
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 2: he's uh, I've seen him described as the lamp Wick character,

1163
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 2: but you know he's not. He's not leading him away

1164
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 2: from morality. He's he's helping him in a lot of ways.

1165
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 10: And I think the Goldfish, actually, I think.

1166
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 2: The Jimmy Cricket role kind of gets split here. It's

1167
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 2: it's not a very exact parallel. Although I really do

1168
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 2: like the image of Rouge City as Playland in the

1169
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 2: Booker or Pleasure Island in the Disney movie. I think

1170
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 2: that there are like a handful of fun parallels in

1171
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 2: including just the fact that he dives underwater and runs

1172
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 2: across a big fake whale and just sort of sails

1173
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 2: by it. But even in the Pinocchio story, Pinocchio does

1174
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 2: get to be a real boy. You know, he strives

1175
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 2: and he suffers, and he gets the reward because it's

1176
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 2: a morality tale. And here, what does he get. He

1177
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 2: gets something that's not just fake, but that's horrifying in

1178
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 2: the parameters of what he's been created to want. And

1179
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 2: maybe the lesson here is just that our idea of

1180
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 2: love as humans, though the the way we see it

1181
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 2: maybe is inherently flawed in a way that's selfish. It

1182
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 2: kind of feels like that's what this movie is saying,

1183
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 2: is that we're so incapable as humans of experiencing love

1184
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 2: that isn't corporatized, that isn't for sale, that isn't limited

1185
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 2: to a world where again I just obsess over the lines.

1186
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 2: You know, there was no Martin, there was no Henry,

1187
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 2: there was nothing in his way, there was nothing for

1188
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 2: her to do, There was just him. Like, that's a

1189
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 2: horrifying vision of love.

1190
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 5: Well, we should have done a three part AI, thinking.

1191
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 10: Like, if any movie could sustain one of those one

1192
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 10: minute by minute podcasts.

1193
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 9: This, Yeah, hey, write in if you want us to

1194
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 9: do it, we'll do this. A second podcast just dedicated

1195
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 9: to this film.

1196
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 2: This movie is only two and a half hours long.

1197
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 2: It'll you know, we do one of these a day.

1198
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 2: It'll only take us most of the year.

1199
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 5: So well, we would love to hear your thoughts on

1200
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 5: this discussion, and particularly if you have some thoughts on

1201
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 5: the ending, can help us solve that. You can also

1202
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 5: write us about anything else in the world a film.

1203
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 5: Email us at comments at next pictureshow dot net if

1204
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 5: you want to share those responses with us and other listeners.

1205
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 5: You know we are doing feedback Fridays up on our Patreon,

1206
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 5: and you know that we would love to dig even

1207
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 5: more into AI. He could probably get full essays from

1208
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 5: all of us in response, but we'll be back in

1209
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 5: a minute with a preview of our next episode. That's

1210
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 5: it for this episode or the Next Picture Show, and

1211
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 5: our next episode we'll compare AI with another film about

1212
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:41,800
Speaker 5: a sophisticated android companion, coconatas after Yang. That film is

1213
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 5: currently playing in some limited theatrical venues and is streaming

1214
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 5: on Showtime. Look for that episode next Tuesday on your

1215
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 5: podcast your choice. For ad free versions of the podcast

1216
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 5: and extra content, including letters from other listeners, find us

1217
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 5: on Patreon at Patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

1218
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 5: We're eager to hear your feedback on Feedback Friday and

1219
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 5: have recently talked about the ambiguities of the power of

1220
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 5: the dog and give an advice on a glorious career

1221
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 5: in film criticism. We're also at Next Picture Show dot

1222
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 5: net and on Twitter at next Picture Pod. If you

1223
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 5: want to keep track of when new episodes drop until

1224
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 5: next week, get some sleep and go to that place

1225
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:21,639
Speaker 5: where dreams are born.

1226
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 2: What the hell does that mean?

1227
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 9: Hi?

1228
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 12: I'm John Ray, your friend and jeweler at Shame Company

1229
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 12: getting engaged, So friends, listen up. Shame Company engagement rings

1230
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:48,599
Speaker 12: are protected with our all inclusive, free lifetime warranty. We

1231
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 12: stand behind the same quality we've offered since nineteen twenty nine.

1232
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 5: Our rings are crafted to last.

1233
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 12: It's why our warranty is the only one that protects

1234
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 12: your center stone. We also cover repairs, resizings, cleanings, and

1235
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 12: so much more. That's money you keep for you and

1236
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 12: your family because a friend always has your back. Shame Company,

1237
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 12: your friend and jeweler