WEBVTT - Thanatosis: Playing Dead to Survive 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.040 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:14.040 Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to Stuff to blow 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.000 your mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:19.720 have you ever played dead? Have you ever played possum? 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:25.160 As they say, Julie, Julie, snap at it? Not now, 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:29.560 you're not dead? Oh okay, all right, no, yes, all 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.959 the time? Yeah, yeah, just for fun. Okay, we'll take 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.800 me through the average day of playing dad around the uh, 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.319 the Julie household. Well, you know, you're just you're sitting there, 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.320 you're talking to your spouse, and all of a sudden 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:43.720 you just get the blank look. You slump over in 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.479 your chair and you try to scare them. And you 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.960 need to know that. One of the films that made 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.720 the biggest impressions on me in my youth was Harold 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:57.240 and Maud, in which the main character Harold played by 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:03.120 Bud Court. Yes, he likes to stage the suicide tableaus. 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.640 So my brother and I growing up, would would sort 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.000 of do this around the household. Well that's I think 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.959 that's a that's a good activity for kids. Nice, nice, morbid, 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.320 A way to stend a rainy day. Afternoon. Well, yeah, 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.360 especially if you're trying, if you're doing the whole like 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:21.080 corpse being dragged away in a doorway so that all 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.640 you can see is that legs, and you can kind 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:25.039 of do this on your own. By the way, there's 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.240 some tricks here. It's it's great fun for mom and dad. Well, 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:30.920 you know, I didn't see Harold in Montill I was older, 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.480 but I do remember watching a lot of Sherlock Holmes 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.360 mysteries when I was really young, and they're you know, 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.320 they're wonderful. Jeremy Brett was the Sherlock Holmes. I mean, 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.360 Benedict cumber Box is great, but but Jeremy Brett was wonderful. 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.679 So every episode, of course, would have some sort of 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.360 murder of varying grizzliness. For the most part, one or 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:50.920 two wouldn't have a murder. But but I never really 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.760 got into acting amount, but perhaps I should have. Well, 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.120 you know, there's there is a great value in playing 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.640 parts them. And I wanted to point out that this 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.919 episode actually comes out the forty second anniversary of Harold 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.640 and Maud, So talking about fanatosis today, this death mimicry 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.520 that ties in pretty nicely with that yeah, So it 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.640 begs the question, as humans, are there times when we 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:16.799 should play dead, when we should just you know, lay 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:18.520 there on the floor in a crumpled heap or in 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:21.880 a nice, you know, stiff uh riga mortis type of 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.040 position and just hope that whatever is after us will say, oh, 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.760 well they're dead, better move on. Yeah. Sometimes actually, but 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.280 sometimes not so much. Now, there are a couple of 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.680 prime examples, uh situations that most of us don't encounter, 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:40.799 where there's a there the myth is out there that 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:42.519 you should play dead and that's the way you'll survive. 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.000 The first of which we're going to discuss is the shark. Now, 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.960 the shark is of course terrifying, whether you're dealing with 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.200 a you know, a fairly unrealistic idea that a great 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:53.760 white it's gonna get to at the beach, or you're 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.080 dealing with a more realistic idea that some sort of 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.800 smaller shark is gonna come after your your toes in 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:03.040 the surf. Regardless, it's something to be fearful of. We 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.080 don't want to be eaten. And so there's this idea 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:06.800 out there, Hey, if you see a shark coming after you, 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.280 just go limp in the water, play dead, and then 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.720 they'll pass on. True or not true? Not true? Yes? 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.119 And the reason here is, of course, ask yourself, why 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.840 would the shark pass you by? Why would the sharks say, oh, well, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:22.960 they're dead. I don't want to eat something that's dead. 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.080 Have you met these guys? Have you met these sharks? 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.320 If you watch Shark Week, you know that they're not 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.600 going to turn their backs on on a potential meal 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.040 just because it stopped moving. Yeah. Well, and Louis c. 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.280 K has this great bit about how humans don't realize 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.120 like what an upgrade in our existence it is to 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.800 be out of the food chain, and he goes into 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.560 the shark's perspective and says, hey, we don't have a 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.360 lot of energy to spend here. We already have to 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.320 swim around all the time. We need to go for 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.840 the easy stuff. And that's why a lot of times 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:54.480 they'll uh separate an infant from its mother in the 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:59.240 water because that's an easy target. Not much energy expended 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.000 to go after that. So if you're in the water 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.800 and let's say shark is circling you, this is bad news, right. 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.080 This is not the time to just sort of pretend 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.160 like you're dead. This is the time to be like, wow, 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.960 big energy, I'm a big problem. You are not gonna 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.520 want to spend like of your energy reserve on me today, buddy. Yeah, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.440 And think of the shark as a Hollywood producer. People 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:23.920 are always saying, oh, why don't they go after some 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.479 sort of an original idea that really takes us somewhere 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.640 we haven't been before. Why don't they go for these 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.720 remakes and this and the remake of a remake and 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.560 another adaptation of this proven concept. That's because it's a 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.400 proven concept, it's a it's an easy catch, and the 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.760 economics of it are driving the decision. Same with the shark. Yeah, 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.960 I can eat that that that person that's playing dead 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:47.200 there with with little or no added effort, or I 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.320 can get into some sort of struggle with this thing. Well. 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:52.800 And the thing about the shark text is that most 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:54.520 of them are hit and runs. And when I say 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.440 hit and running, men more like hit and take a 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.080 chunk out of you. And then they realize, oh, this 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.200 is not a seal, or this is not something that 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.240 I would normally eat, and normally they would retreat. But 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.960 there there are those times when a shark would attack you, 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:11.080 and that behavior is very obvious, as I said, the 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.000 circling behavior. So put up a big fight, do not 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.799 play possum. Yeah. Now, another area where we encounter this 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.440 this notion that you should play dead is with bear encounters, 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:23.479 and the bear is kind of the shark of the land, 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.520 and that it is a creature that definitely outweighs us, 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.960 outpowers us, and it can and does eat us from 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.080 time to time. And you were you were talking to 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.520 the other day, you were in the woods, and what 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.039 were you thinking about. I was thinking, I don't want 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.080 First of all, I'm glad that my daughter isn't with 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.640 me right now while I'm taking this walk through the 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:46.400 North Georgia Mountains and this trail, because you know, she 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.559 would be the easy pray right and instinctually a bear 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.520 or some other animal would know that. But then I 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.200 started to think, oh, I can't remember. Do you know 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.679 if a bear comes after me, do I act crazy 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:58.800 and ridiculous and do I blow in a whistle that 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.360 I don't have, or do I completely retreat and get quiet, 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.599 punch in the nose, hunch in the nose, because you 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.280 know I could do that. Um. But it turns out 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.960 it depends on the type of bear. Yeah, and uh yeah. 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:13.320 There are a lot of factors here. One of the 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.960 big ones, of course, is does the bear have a 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.520 natural fear of humans or has the bear been eating 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.560 out of garbage cans that are that that park rangers 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.440 have brought out. When I visited the Yosemite National Park 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.600 um a couple of years back, then they went into 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:28.960 the history of the park and there was a time 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:31.599 when they would they would everyone would gather around and 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.000 they would have dumps like garbage cans full of scraps 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.000 from the from the from the from the kitchens, and 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.240 they would beat on the cans and the bears would 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.120 come out and they'd feed them. And they had a 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.560 sign that said, do not fear, do not feed the 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.480 bears by hand, by hand, by hand. But you know, 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.520 I love that they put the by hand. Yeah, but 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.279 but if that happens, so you know, you hear this 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.080 time and time again. You feed the bears, and the 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.279 bears don't have a fear of humans, and then you 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.279 just have closer proximity to this creature that may eat you. 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.560 Pick anyway, and generally bears really don't want anything to 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.240 do with you. But the Yellowstone National Park saw human 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.600 bear conflict spike in two thousand and eight and two 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.000 thousand and ten, and followed in two thousand eleven by 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:17.040 its first fatal bear attack in twenty five years. So 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.280 you see this violence linked to a bunch of factors 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:26.040 habitat loss, human intrusion, food shortages, and climate change. That's 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.680 a couple of examples. But generally, as we say, they 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.520 don't want anything to do with you. But I always 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.800 go back to Cheryl Strait, who wrote the book Wild. 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.480 I don't know if you are familiar with this account 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.920 of her. I think three month track through this Pacific 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.800 Crest trail, which was crazy terrain, and she actually carried 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.720 a very loud whistle for the purpose of bears because 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.080 you know, she knew that that was a real possibility 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.080 depending on the time of year she was in certain areas, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.320 about whether or not they would go after the food 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.920 that she had or even herself. Yeah, the food is 0:07:57.960 --> 0:07:59.520 that is one of the big things, of course. So 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.840 do you have food on you that's attracting the attention 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:03.880 of the bear, And if you then encounter a bear 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.560 while say carrying around a whole basket of sandwiches, you 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.000 probably want to drop that basket of sandwich. Is better 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.080 to let the bear have the sandwiches than than fight 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.800 it away from you. Yeah. Now, if you encounter a 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.600 brown bear, and this is according to Mother Nature Network, 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.800 stand tall, stay calm, and slowly reach for your bear spray. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:26.000 You're going to have bear spray, right, I needed by 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.200 some they say don't worry if the bear stands up, 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.240 that usually just means that it's curious. And you would 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.480 want to back away slowly if you could, with your 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.360 spray at the ready, and if the bear follows you 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.200 stop and stand your grunt. And now all of this 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.800 sounds sort of terrifying to me. Just get in that 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:44.920 one little and it's easy to say these things, but 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.000 I'm trying to imagine myself in the woods and a 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:51.000 bear either standing up or following me, and I think 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:52.560 there would be a very good chance that I would 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.559 just completely lose it, destroying, just make a break for 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.320 it and run or be unable to run well. And 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.080 I did read. I think it was the Yellowstone attack. Um, 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.040 I might have the park wrong, but there were three 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.160 people that were under bear attack and one of them 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.040 was killed and the one that was killed was the 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.960 one that went crazy and started screaming. One actually was 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:17.080 gored a bit, but she played possum and she was fine. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.800 But that's basically what they're saying here. With a brown bear, 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.120 if it charges you, you you know, fall down and you 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.480 lace your fingers over the back of your neck, right 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.160 because you want to protect that. Usually what they go 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.960 for guard your stomach by lying flat on the ground 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.960 or assuming a fetal position with nice tech on ger 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:37.320 chin and don't move play possum. Because the thing is is, uh, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.960 they want to They're not really interested if you're looking 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.120 like you're dead, and they don't want to play with 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:47.199 you necessarily. But the thing is you have to play 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.240 dead for at least twenty minutes because they will hang 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.440 around and make sure that you're just as boring as 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.240 you look. I know, twenty minutes, yeah, I mean just 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.240 twenty minutes with a bear. It's hanging out, just gonna 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.280 see if you stir and uh and then eat you 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.600 perhaps if if you do, yes, yeah, and I mean 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.360 anything I want to say. This really is the best tactic. 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.200 But of course, if if that does not work, then 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.360 you know, a big slam to the nose, to the 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.160 eyes if they were, if you could even manage, that 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.199 would be the last resort. Yeah, I mean, at that point, 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.520 if it's you might as well go down with the fight. Right, 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:25.719 You're gonna eat me, but I'm gonna make your nose 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.280 a little sore for a few minutes. All right, So 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:29.840 what else you got? What are the bears? All right? 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.400 Black bears? Same principle. You know, you see a black bear, 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.240 do not run away, but do stand tall. And in 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.079 this case though, you're gonna want to create a big commotion. 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.400 So if you have sticks, if you have a whistle. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.800 And again, this is why Cheryl straight Um when she 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.240 was on the Pacific Cross Trail had her whistle, is 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.520 because she wanted to just scare anything away and really 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.520 let other animals know that she was around so she 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.560 didn't accidentally come upon them and frighten them. Yeah. Like, 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.640 that's always the thing I'm concerned about when I'm I'm 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.360 walking around in the mountain here in Georgia. It's it's 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.920 not that a bear will hunt me down, but I'll 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:05.760 just suddenly round a corner and there'll be a bear 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:07.360 and then we just kind of look at each other 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.240 and the bear will be like you know, just shrug 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:10.560 and say, well, I guess we got to do this, 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:12.400 and then I get eaten. So yeah, I mean, if 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:14.400 if it is a black bear, then you know you're 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.560 gonna want to try to make as much commission as possible. 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.720 And then the other thing is if it does attack you, 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.240 the best thing to do is to actually try to 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.840 fend off the black bear. Again according to Mother Nature Network, 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.800 not according to Julie Douglas. If this happens and it fails, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.760 you miserably. Um. So, you know, the idea again is 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.800 that with the black bear, that it's going to respond 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.319 more to you actually fighting back. And perhaps it's more 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.040 of the idea of, hey, this thing, this person is 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.360 kind of a pain in the butt. Maybe I won't 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.280 tangle with it all right. Of course, another big area 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.040 of humans playing possum humans pretending to be dead, of course, 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.440 is when humans are dealing with other humans. You see 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.760 this more for the most part, you see it as 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.640 a trope that shows up in TV shows, movies, etcetera. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.840 Somebody's in a generally in a war situation, and they're 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.959 on the battlefield and they play dead and then they're 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.760 passed over by the enemy troops. I mean, I ad 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.160 meant say it's a troupe, but it also obviously it happens. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.840 It has happened, Uh, you know many many times in 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.280 real battles as well, due to varying number of causes. 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.160 You know, you could be intentionally saying, all right, there's 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:24.520 no way i'm gonna find them out of this, I'm 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.079 gonna hunker down. You might be partially incapacitated due to 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:32.160 an injury, but you end up to varying degrees pretending 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.840 to be out of the battle when you really are not. Yeah. 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.000 I was just thinking about the mall shooting in Nairobi 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:43.800 and one of the people who survived actually employed the 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:48.920 possum method, which was, you know, she covered herself and 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.240 and I believe blood and and uh actually kind of 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:56.000 snuck in underneath someone else and pretended to be dead. Oh, 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.400 it's horrific to think about. But this is I mean, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.600 certainly this is not the first instance, as you have 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.800 pointed out that this has happened in human history. Yeah, 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.480 of course, one of my favorite examples of this as 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.760 it shows up in fiction in a way that doesn't 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.080 actually horrify us in a in a non entertaining manners 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.240 of course, silence of the Lambs. Do you remember the 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:22.800 the possum I'm thinking when it would a certain Dr 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:29.600 Hannibal lecter um mald An individual. Yes, and then he 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.600 took their skin off. Ye. And in the film especially 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.760 fantastically um utilized and you just really had you on 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.160 edge the whole time. There's an elevator involved. Well, I 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.199 mean there's the element of deception, right, And that's the thing, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.840 it's the deception. And that is why it's interesting to 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:52.160 note that in UH, in actual warfare and under various 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:58.359 UH national, international UM laws of war, playing dead, especially 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.640 if you're playing dead with the intention and to then 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:05.240 kill somebody, is against international laws, against Geneva convention. I 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.680 have a bit here just to put it in the 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.880 perspective from the JAG book on the Law of Land War, 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.040 and it is from section that deals with treachery and assassination. 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.520 UH again to put it in context. That's the area 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.640 where they discussed playing Possum says it is the essence 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:24.240 of treachery that the offender assumes a false character by 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.080 which he deceives his enemy and thereby is able to 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.880 affect a hostile act which had he come under his 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.480 true colors, he could not have done. It is treachery 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.360 for a soldier to throw up his hands in surrender 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.200 and then take up his rifle and shoot his captor. 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.800 A soldier who pretends to be disabled or dead is 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.960 guilty of treachery if he then uses his rifle. And 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.640 the idea here too, is that if you get into 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:49.760 a situation where enemy combatants are faking their death and 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.320 then and then rising up and and and and attacking again, 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.280 then it degrades the morals of the of the of 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.920 the warfare scenario to the point where you just in 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.479 of having possum squads going around just like shooting everybody 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.520 in the head, uh and instead of you know, dealing 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:11.120 with the with the potentially injured uh combatants. It's interesting 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.600 too that there are these laws of morality and killing. Yeah, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.480 you know, you look at it this way, and it 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:22.040 does seem like there is some sort of um attempt 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.600 to structure it to make it less awful, but at 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.480 the same time, it's still killing. And so it's just 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.640 the interesting dichotomy. Yeah, we could probably go a whole 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.760 episode just on this weird idea of the laws of 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.600 war and how and what if into what extended has 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.640 h been utilized sometimes? You know, because for instance, uh, 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.360 the absence not the complete absence, but the largely the 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.360 absence of chemical weapons during the Second World War very 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.760 interesting anomaly following the horrific use in the First World War. 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.040 And then of course we see these standardized rules of 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.200 of uniform combatants. We see we see these ideals breaking 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:02.720 down as we we enter into a stranger high tech 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:07.840 but also gerrilla existence of warfare in the modern age. Yeah. 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.080 I was just thinking about when we talked to Dr 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.680 Alan Arkin over at Georgia Tech, and he was talking 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.560 about how do you teach machines morality If they're going 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.800 to be making these autonomous decisions about who would kill 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.840 and who not to kill. It's very dicey territory even 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:25.960 as a human. Can you imagine trying to instill this 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:27.800 in a machine. Yeah, I mean, because it would make 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:29.240 more sense to instill it in a machine if it 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.840 was fighting, say, you know, the Revolutionary War or some 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.520 sort of you know, very structured, old fashioned land war. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.360 But it makes increasingly complex as we advanced, and we've 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.520 seen this with drones to drone strikes and anyway we 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.760 were way off path, he aren't we Yeah, because we're 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.360 in this episode, we're talking about playing dead. We're talking 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:51.120 about a little something that is often referred to under 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.160 two terms, and we're gonna discuss these terms a bit. 0:16:54.080 --> 0:17:00.760 Tonic immobility and fanatosis. Yes, and they are confused quite 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.000 a bit in terms of how you define them and 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.720 when to use them. Uh tonic immobility. In my head, 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.280 I tried to fix this as more a reflex in animals. 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:14.639 So um one definition would be in natural state of 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.880 paralysis that animals enter in most cases when presented with 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.000 a threat. Yes, something's trying to eat me. Ha ha ha, 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.920 I can't move, whereas fanatosis would be more like, there's 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:27.840 a creature in my midst's gonna try and eat me. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.400 I'm gonna be real still, I'm gonna lock things down, 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.800 and then after he's not making any more noise, I'm 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:36.960 going to move off. Very deliberate, right and adaptive to 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.800 So I guess that's how you could tell the distinction 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.280 between the two. I did want to mention that fanatosis 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.879 in Greek mythology is the personification of death, and the 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.960 Greek poet Hesiod established that thanatosis is a son of 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.760 Nick's night in Arabos darkness and the twin of hypnos sleep, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.720 hence the beautiful term. What is interesting you mentioned hypnos 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:03.120 because this scenario, this fanatosis tonic immobility, has been known 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.719 by a number of different terms, including including death, seeing immobility, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.920 reflex contact, defense, immobility, writing time, catatonia, playing possum, playing dead, 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:16.399 and animal hypnosis, which just now, I'm just thinking about 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.520 a possum with like a watch in front of it. 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.520 You're going back and forth. Do not let them. I 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.960 do not trust a possum to hypnotize me. That's no good. 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.200 So we see this in a huge variety of animals. 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:31.320 You see an insects, decapod, spiders, fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:36.119 various mammals, um And that's why why the terminology can 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.399 get a bit confusing. We've discussed enough about just the 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.120 human scenario. What do we choose to do in our lives? 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.159 What do we deliberately do from our lives? And what 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.080 extent is it instinct kicking in when you start making 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.280 a judgment call on whether this animal is deciding to 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.080 do something or it's a reflex there can be a 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.600 certain amount of gray area, especially if you're talking about 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.040 simpler organisms. Yeah, and this is interesting. Artificial select and 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.960 experience have shown that there is a heritable variation for 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.080 a length of death feigning and beetles. So again that 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.040 tells us that that might be adaptive and those selected 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.200 for longer death feigning durations are at a selective advantage 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.240 to those at a short for shorter durations when a 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.400 predator is introduced, So again the idea that it's adaptive 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.360 among that species. Now you mentioned the beetles that it's 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:27.720 interesting that the theory is that a number of insects 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.439 to do this, they lock up, they go stiff, because 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.600 a lot of the animals that they're the predators that 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.320 are dealing with, would be there to eat them whole 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.359 without any chewing. And if and if you're if you 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.480 straighten yourself out and you just go completely into a 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:45.680 star shape legs akimbo, then than that that swallower may 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.560 not be able to get you down. Huh. I was 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.119 just thinking about my cousin who's in the military, and 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:52.359 one of the things that he had to do is 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.080 he was dropped in the middle of nowhere and he 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:58.000 had to eat or a live rabbit, because that was 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:01.000 the only thing that he could not a live rabbit. 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.760 I should say that it was just one of the 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:05.880 few sources of protein that he could find out there 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.520 in the wild. And what he had to do is 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.080 he actually had to pet it and before he killed 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.480 it and split its throat, because otherwise, if it had 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:17.840 had any sort of fear, it would have frozen up, 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:19.560 and then he couldn't have It would have made the 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:22.280 meat youing very hard to do. So it just made 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.320 me think about that and the beetle and freezing up 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:27.120 and saying, hey, I'm not all that great to eat. Yeah, 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:28.560 how are you gonna get me down? I'm just all 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.080 stiff and awful. Yeah, too bad that rabbit couldn't have 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.359