1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to Stuff to blow 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: your mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: have you ever played dead? Have you ever played possum? 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: As they say, Julie, Julie, snap at it? Not now, 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: you're not dead? Oh okay, all right, no, yes, all 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 1: the time? Yeah, yeah, just for fun. Okay, we'll take 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: me through the average day of playing dad around the uh, 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 1: the Julie household. Well, you know, you're just you're sitting there, 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: you're talking to your spouse, and all of a sudden 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: you just get the blank look. You slump over in 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: your chair and you try to scare them. And you 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: need to know that. One of the films that made 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: the biggest impressions on me in my youth was Harold 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: and Maud, in which the main character Harold played by 16 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: Bud Court. Yes, he likes to stage the suicide tableaus. 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: So my brother and I growing up, would would sort 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: of do this around the household. Well that's I think 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: that's a that's a good activity for kids. Nice, nice, morbid, 20 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: A way to stend a rainy day. Afternoon. Well, yeah, 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: especially if you're trying, if you're doing the whole like 22 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: corpse being dragged away in a doorway so that all 23 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: you can see is that legs, and you can kind 24 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: of do this on your own. By the way, there's 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: some tricks here. It's it's great fun for mom and dad. Well, 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't see Harold in Montill I was older, 27 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: but I do remember watching a lot of Sherlock Holmes 28 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: mysteries when I was really young, and they're you know, 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: they're wonderful. Jeremy Brett was the Sherlock Holmes. I mean, 30 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: Benedict cumber Box is great, but but Jeremy Brett was wonderful. 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: So every episode, of course, would have some sort of 32 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: murder of varying grizzliness. For the most part, one or 33 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: two wouldn't have a murder. But but I never really 34 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: got into acting amount, but perhaps I should have. Well, 35 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's there is a great value in playing 36 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: parts them. And I wanted to point out that this 37 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 1: episode actually comes out the forty second anniversary of Harold 38 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: and Maud, So talking about fanatosis today, this death mimicry 39 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: that ties in pretty nicely with that yeah, So it 40 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: begs the question, as humans, are there times when we 41 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: should play dead, when we should just you know, lay 42 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: there on the floor in a crumpled heap or in 43 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: a nice, you know, stiff uh riga mortis type of 44 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: position and just hope that whatever is after us will say, oh, 45 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: well they're dead, better move on. Yeah. Sometimes actually, but 46 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: sometimes not so much. Now, there are a couple of 47 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: prime examples, uh situations that most of us don't encounter, 48 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: where there's a there the myth is out there that 49 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: you should play dead and that's the way you'll survive. 50 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: The first of which we're going to discuss is the shark. Now, 51 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: the shark is of course terrifying, whether you're dealing with 52 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: a you know, a fairly unrealistic idea that a great 53 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: white it's gonna get to at the beach, or you're 54 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: dealing with a more realistic idea that some sort of 55 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: smaller shark is gonna come after your your toes in 56 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: the surf. Regardless, it's something to be fearful of. We 57 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: don't want to be eaten. And so there's this idea 58 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: out there, Hey, if you see a shark coming after you, 59 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: just go limp in the water, play dead, and then 60 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: they'll pass on. True or not true? Not true? Yes? 61 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: And the reason here is, of course, ask yourself, why 62 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: would the shark pass you by? Why would the sharks say, oh, well, 63 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: they're dead. I don't want to eat something that's dead. 64 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: Have you met these guys? Have you met these sharks? 65 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: If you watch Shark Week, you know that they're not 66 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: going to turn their backs on on a potential meal 67 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: just because it stopped moving. Yeah. Well, and Louis c. 68 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: K has this great bit about how humans don't realize 69 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: like what an upgrade in our existence it is to 70 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: be out of the food chain, and he goes into 71 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: the shark's perspective and says, hey, we don't have a 72 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: lot of energy to spend here. We already have to 73 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: swim around all the time. We need to go for 74 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: the easy stuff. And that's why a lot of times 75 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: they'll uh separate an infant from its mother in the 76 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: water because that's an easy target. Not much energy expended 77 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: to go after that. So if you're in the water 78 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: and let's say shark is circling you, this is bad news, right. 79 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: This is not the time to just sort of pretend 80 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: like you're dead. This is the time to be like, wow, 81 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: big energy, I'm a big problem. You are not gonna 82 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: want to spend like of your energy reserve on me today, buddy. Yeah, 83 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: And think of the shark as a Hollywood producer. People 84 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: are always saying, oh, why don't they go after some 85 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: sort of an original idea that really takes us somewhere 86 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: we haven't been before. Why don't they go for these 87 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: remakes and this and the remake of a remake and 88 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: another adaptation of this proven concept. That's because it's a 89 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: proven concept, it's a it's an easy catch, and the 90 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: economics of it are driving the decision. Same with the shark. Yeah, 91 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: I can eat that that that person that's playing dead 92 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: there with with little or no added effort, or I 93 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: can get into some sort of struggle with this thing. Well. 94 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: And the thing about the shark text is that most 95 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: of them are hit and runs. And when I say 96 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: hit and running, men more like hit and take a 97 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: chunk out of you. And then they realize, oh, this 98 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: is not a seal, or this is not something that 99 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: I would normally eat, and normally they would retreat. But 100 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: there there are those times when a shark would attack you, 101 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: and that behavior is very obvious, as I said, the 102 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: circling behavior. So put up a big fight, do not 103 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 1: play possum. Yeah. Now, another area where we encounter this 104 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: this notion that you should play dead is with bear encounters, 105 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: and the bear is kind of the shark of the land, 106 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: and that it is a creature that definitely outweighs us, 107 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: outpowers us, and it can and does eat us from 108 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: time to time. And you were you were talking to 109 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: the other day, you were in the woods, and what 110 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: were you thinking about. I was thinking, I don't want 111 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: First of all, I'm glad that my daughter isn't with 112 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: me right now while I'm taking this walk through the 113 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: North Georgia Mountains and this trail, because you know, she 114 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,559 Speaker 1: would be the easy pray right and instinctually a bear 115 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: or some other animal would know that. But then I 116 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: started to think, oh, I can't remember. Do you know 117 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,679 Speaker 1: if a bear comes after me, do I act crazy 118 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: and ridiculous and do I blow in a whistle that 119 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: I don't have, or do I completely retreat and get quiet, 120 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: punch in the nose, hunch in the nose, because you 121 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: know I could do that. Um. But it turns out 122 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: it depends on the type of bear. Yeah, and uh yeah. 123 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: There are a lot of factors here. One of the 124 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: big ones, of course, is does the bear have a 125 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: natural fear of humans or has the bear been eating 126 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: out of garbage cans that are that that park rangers 127 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: have brought out. When I visited the Yosemite National Park 128 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: um a couple of years back, then they went into 129 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: the history of the park and there was a time 130 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: when they would they would everyone would gather around and 131 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: they would have dumps like garbage cans full of scraps 132 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: from the from the from the from the kitchens, and 133 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: they would beat on the cans and the bears would 134 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: come out and they'd feed them. And they had a 135 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: sign that said, do not fear, do not feed the 136 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: bears by hand, by hand, by hand. But you know, 137 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: I love that they put the by hand. Yeah, but 138 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: but if that happens, so you know, you hear this 139 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: time and time again. You feed the bears, and the 140 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: bears don't have a fear of humans, and then you 141 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: just have closer proximity to this creature that may eat you. 142 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: Pick anyway, and generally bears really don't want anything to 143 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: do with you. But the Yellowstone National Park saw human 144 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: bear conflict spike in two thousand and eight and two 145 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: thousand and ten, and followed in two thousand eleven by 146 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: its first fatal bear attack in twenty five years. So 147 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: you see this violence linked to a bunch of factors 148 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: habitat loss, human intrusion, food shortages, and climate change. That's 149 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: a couple of examples. But generally, as we say, they 150 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: don't want anything to do with you. But I always 151 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: go back to Cheryl Strait, who wrote the book Wild. 152 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: I don't know if you are familiar with this account 153 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: of her. I think three month track through this Pacific 154 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: Crest trail, which was crazy terrain, and she actually carried 155 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: a very loud whistle for the purpose of bears because 156 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: you know, she knew that that was a real possibility 157 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: depending on the time of year she was in certain areas, 158 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: about whether or not they would go after the food 159 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: that she had or even herself. Yeah, the food is 160 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: that is one of the big things, of course. So 161 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: do you have food on you that's attracting the attention 162 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: of the bear, And if you then encounter a bear 163 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: while say carrying around a whole basket of sandwiches, you 164 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: probably want to drop that basket of sandwich. Is better 165 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: to let the bear have the sandwiches than than fight 166 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: it away from you. Yeah. Now, if you encounter a 167 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: brown bear, and this is according to Mother Nature Network, 168 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: stand tall, stay calm, and slowly reach for your bear spray. 169 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: You're going to have bear spray, right, I needed by 170 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: some they say don't worry if the bear stands up, 171 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: that usually just means that it's curious. And you would 172 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: want to back away slowly if you could, with your 173 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: spray at the ready, and if the bear follows you 174 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: stop and stand your grunt. And now all of this 175 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: sounds sort of terrifying to me. Just get in that 176 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: one little and it's easy to say these things, but 177 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to imagine myself in the woods and a 178 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: bear either standing up or following me, and I think 179 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: there would be a very good chance that I would 180 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: just completely lose it, destroying, just make a break for 181 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: it and run or be unable to run well. And 182 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: I did read. I think it was the Yellowstone attack. Um, 183 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: I might have the park wrong, but there were three 184 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: people that were under bear attack and one of them 185 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: was killed and the one that was killed was the 186 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: one that went crazy and started screaming. One actually was 187 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: gored a bit, but she played possum and she was fine. 188 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: But that's basically what they're saying here. With a brown bear, 189 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: if it charges you, you you know, fall down and you 190 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: lace your fingers over the back of your neck, right 191 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: because you want to protect that. Usually what they go 192 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: for guard your stomach by lying flat on the ground 193 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: or assuming a fetal position with nice tech on ger 194 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: chin and don't move play possum. Because the thing is is, uh, 195 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: they want to They're not really interested if you're looking 196 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: like you're dead, and they don't want to play with 197 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: you necessarily. But the thing is you have to play 198 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: dead for at least twenty minutes because they will hang 199 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: around and make sure that you're just as boring as 200 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: you look. I know, twenty minutes, yeah, I mean just 201 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: twenty minutes with a bear. It's hanging out, just gonna 202 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: see if you stir and uh and then eat you 203 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: perhaps if if you do, yes, yeah, and I mean 204 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: anything I want to say. This really is the best tactic. 205 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: But of course, if if that does not work, then 206 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, a big slam to the nose, to the 207 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: eyes if they were, if you could even manage, that 208 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: would be the last resort. Yeah, I mean, at that point, 209 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: if it's you might as well go down with the fight. Right, 210 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,719 Speaker 1: You're gonna eat me, but I'm gonna make your nose 211 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: a little sore for a few minutes. All right, So 212 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: what else you got? What are the bears? All right? 213 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: Black bears? Same principle. You know, you see a black bear, 214 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: do not run away, but do stand tall. And in 215 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: this case though, you're gonna want to create a big commotion. 216 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: So if you have sticks, if you have a whistle. 217 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: And again, this is why Cheryl straight Um when she 218 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: was on the Pacific Cross Trail had her whistle, is 219 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: because she wanted to just scare anything away and really 220 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: let other animals know that she was around so she 221 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: didn't accidentally come upon them and frighten them. Yeah. Like, 222 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: that's always the thing I'm concerned about when I'm I'm 223 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: walking around in the mountain here in Georgia. It's it's 224 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: not that a bear will hunt me down, but I'll 225 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: just suddenly round a corner and there'll be a bear 226 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: and then we just kind of look at each other 227 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: and the bear will be like you know, just shrug 228 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: and say, well, I guess we got to do this, 229 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: and then I get eaten. So yeah, I mean, if 230 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: if it is a black bear, then you know you're 231 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: gonna want to try to make as much commission as possible. 232 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: And then the other thing is if it does attack you, 233 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: the best thing to do is to actually try to 234 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: fend off the black bear. Again according to Mother Nature Network, 235 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: not according to Julie Douglas. If this happens and it fails, 236 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: you miserably. Um. So, you know, the idea again is 237 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: that with the black bear, that it's going to respond 238 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: more to you actually fighting back. And perhaps it's more 239 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: of the idea of, hey, this thing, this person is 240 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: kind of a pain in the butt. Maybe I won't 241 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: tangle with it all right. Of course, another big area 242 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: of humans playing possum humans pretending to be dead, of course, 243 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: is when humans are dealing with other humans. You see 244 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: this more for the most part, you see it as 245 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: a trope that shows up in TV shows, movies, etcetera. 246 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: Somebody's in a generally in a war situation, and they're 247 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: on the battlefield and they play dead and then they're 248 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: passed over by the enemy troops. I mean, I ad 249 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: meant say it's a troupe, but it also obviously it happens. 250 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: It has happened, Uh, you know many many times in 251 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: real battles as well, due to varying number of causes. 252 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: You know, you could be intentionally saying, all right, there's 253 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: no way i'm gonna find them out of this, I'm 254 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: gonna hunker down. You might be partially incapacitated due to 255 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: an injury, but you end up to varying degrees pretending 256 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: to be out of the battle when you really are not. Yeah. 257 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about the mall shooting in Nairobi 258 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: and one of the people who survived actually employed the 259 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: possum method, which was, you know, she covered herself and 260 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: and I believe blood and and uh actually kind of 261 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: snuck in underneath someone else and pretended to be dead. Oh, 262 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: it's horrific to think about. But this is I mean, 263 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: certainly this is not the first instance, as you have 264 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: pointed out that this has happened in human history. Yeah, 265 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: of course, one of my favorite examples of this as 266 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: it shows up in fiction in a way that doesn't 267 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: actually horrify us in a in a non entertaining manners 268 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: of course, silence of the Lambs. Do you remember the 269 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: the possum I'm thinking when it would a certain Dr 270 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: Hannibal lecter um mald An individual. Yes, and then he 271 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: took their skin off. Ye. And in the film especially 272 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: fantastically um utilized and you just really had you on 273 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: edge the whole time. There's an elevator involved. Well, I 274 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: mean there's the element of deception, right, And that's the thing, 275 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: it's the deception. And that is why it's interesting to 276 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: note that in UH, in actual warfare and under various 277 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:58,359 Speaker 1: UH national, international UM laws of war, playing dead, especially 278 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: if you're playing dead with the intention and to then 279 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: kill somebody, is against international laws, against Geneva convention. I 280 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: have a bit here just to put it in the 281 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: perspective from the JAG book on the Law of Land War, 282 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: and it is from section that deals with treachery and assassination. 283 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: UH again to put it in context. That's the area 284 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: where they discussed playing Possum says it is the essence 285 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: of treachery that the offender assumes a false character by 286 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: which he deceives his enemy and thereby is able to 287 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: affect a hostile act which had he come under his 288 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: true colors, he could not have done. It is treachery 289 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: for a soldier to throw up his hands in surrender 290 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: and then take up his rifle and shoot his captor. 291 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: A soldier who pretends to be disabled or dead is 292 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: guilty of treachery if he then uses his rifle. And 293 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: the idea here too, is that if you get into 294 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: a situation where enemy combatants are faking their death and 295 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: then and then rising up and and and and attacking again, 296 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: then it degrades the morals of the of the of 297 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: the warfare scenario to the point where you just in 298 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,479 Speaker 1: of having possum squads going around just like shooting everybody 299 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: in the head, uh and instead of you know, dealing 300 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: with the with the potentially injured uh combatants. It's interesting 301 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: too that there are these laws of morality and killing. Yeah, 302 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, you look at it this way, and it 303 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: does seem like there is some sort of um attempt 304 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: to structure it to make it less awful, but at 305 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: the same time, it's still killing. And so it's just 306 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: the interesting dichotomy. Yeah, we could probably go a whole 307 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: episode just on this weird idea of the laws of 308 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: war and how and what if into what extended has 309 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: h been utilized sometimes? You know, because for instance, uh, 310 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: the absence not the complete absence, but the largely the 311 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: absence of chemical weapons during the Second World War very 312 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: interesting anomaly following the horrific use in the First World War. 313 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: And then of course we see these standardized rules of 314 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: of uniform combatants. We see we see these ideals breaking 315 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: down as we we enter into a stranger high tech 316 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: but also gerrilla existence of warfare in the modern age. Yeah. 317 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about when we talked to Dr 318 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: Alan Arkin over at Georgia Tech, and he was talking 319 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: about how do you teach machines morality If they're going 320 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: to be making these autonomous decisions about who would kill 321 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: and who not to kill. It's very dicey territory even 322 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: as a human. Can you imagine trying to instill this 323 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: in a machine. Yeah, I mean, because it would make 324 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: more sense to instill it in a machine if it 325 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: was fighting, say, you know, the Revolutionary War or some 326 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: sort of you know, very structured, old fashioned land war. 327 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: But it makes increasingly complex as we advanced, and we've 328 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: seen this with drones to drone strikes and anyway we 329 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: were way off path, he aren't we Yeah, because we're 330 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: in this episode, we're talking about playing dead. We're talking 331 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: about a little something that is often referred to under 332 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: two terms, and we're gonna discuss these terms a bit. 333 00:16:54,080 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: Tonic immobility and fanatosis. Yes, and they are confused quite 334 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: a bit in terms of how you define them and 335 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: when to use them. Uh tonic immobility. In my head, 336 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: I tried to fix this as more a reflex in animals. 337 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: So um one definition would be in natural state of 338 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: paralysis that animals enter in most cases when presented with 339 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: a threat. Yes, something's trying to eat me. Ha ha ha, 340 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: I can't move, whereas fanatosis would be more like, there's 341 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: a creature in my midst's gonna try and eat me. 342 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be real still, I'm gonna lock things down, 343 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: and then after he's not making any more noise, I'm 344 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: going to move off. Very deliberate, right and adaptive to 345 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: So I guess that's how you could tell the distinction 346 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: between the two. I did want to mention that fanatosis 347 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: in Greek mythology is the personification of death, and the 348 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: Greek poet Hesiod established that thanatosis is a son of 349 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: Nick's night in Arabos darkness and the twin of hypnos sleep, 350 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: hence the beautiful term. What is interesting you mentioned hypnos 351 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: because this scenario, this fanatosis tonic immobility, has been known 352 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,719 Speaker 1: by a number of different terms, including including death, seeing immobility, 353 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: reflex contact, defense, immobility, writing time, catatonia, playing possum, playing dead, 354 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: and animal hypnosis, which just now, I'm just thinking about 355 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: a possum with like a watch in front of it. 356 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: You're going back and forth. Do not let them. I 357 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: do not trust a possum to hypnotize me. That's no good. 358 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: So we see this in a huge variety of animals. 359 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: You see an insects, decapod, spiders, fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, 360 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: various mammals, um And that's why why the terminology can 361 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: get a bit confusing. We've discussed enough about just the 362 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: human scenario. What do we choose to do in our lives? 363 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: What do we deliberately do from our lives? And what 364 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: extent is it instinct kicking in when you start making 365 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: a judgment call on whether this animal is deciding to 366 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: do something or it's a reflex there can be a 367 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: certain amount of gray area, especially if you're talking about 368 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: simpler organisms. Yeah, and this is interesting. Artificial select and 369 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: experience have shown that there is a heritable variation for 370 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: a length of death feigning and beetles. So again that 371 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: tells us that that might be adaptive and those selected 372 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: for longer death feigning durations are at a selective advantage 373 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: to those at a short for shorter durations when a 374 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: predator is introduced, So again the idea that it's adaptive 375 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: among that species. Now you mentioned the beetles that it's 376 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: interesting that the theory is that a number of insects 377 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: to do this, they lock up, they go stiff, because 378 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the animals that they're the predators that 379 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: are dealing with, would be there to eat them whole 380 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: without any chewing. And if and if you're if you 381 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: straighten yourself out and you just go completely into a 382 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: star shape legs akimbo, then than that that swallower may 383 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: not be able to get you down. Huh. I was 384 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: just thinking about my cousin who's in the military, and 385 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: one of the things that he had to do is 386 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: he was dropped in the middle of nowhere and he 387 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: had to eat or a live rabbit, because that was 388 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: the only thing that he could not a live rabbit. 389 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: I should say that it was just one of the 390 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: few sources of protein that he could find out there 391 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: in the wild. And what he had to do is 392 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: he actually had to pet it and before he killed 393 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: it and split its throat, because otherwise, if it had 394 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: had any sort of fear, it would have frozen up, 395 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: and then he couldn't have It would have made the 396 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: meat youing very hard to do. So it just made 397 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: me think about that and the beetle and freezing up 398 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: and saying, hey, I'm not all that great to eat. Yeah, 399 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: how are you gonna get me down? I'm just all 400 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: stiff and awful. Yeah, too bad that rabbit couldn't have 401 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: exercise a little fanatosis. But of course, with most vertebrates, 402 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: um fanatosis is generally best explained under the hypothesis that 403 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: it has to do with losing the predator's interest saying, hey, 404 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: I'm just this dead, awful thing. You don't want to 405 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: eat me. I smell horrible. You want fresh meat, You 406 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: want to fresh kill. You don't want something that's been 407 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: just been here in a puddle of its own rotting 408 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: awfulness for you know, however, how long has passed well? 409 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: And I think the i iconic example here is the opossum, 410 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: in particular the Virginia opossum Didelphis Virginia. And this is 411 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: according to Natalie Angier, writing from New York Times. She 412 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: says that when faced with a predator, it falls to 413 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: its side with its mouth a gape, and excretes droppings 414 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: in a foul or odor and remains in a deathlike 415 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: state of curled catatonia for minutes to hours until it 416 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: finally revives, beginning with a twitch of the years. And 417 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: that's that's great, right for an opossum. Yeah, just completely. 418 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: This puts on the ruse of death pooping itself, emitting 419 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: foul odors. And it already looks pretty foul. I mean, 420 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: all fairness to the to the bossom, but it's a 421 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: it's a pretty foul looking creature to begin with. The 422 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: problem is when it mistakes a car, let's say, an 423 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: oncoming car for a predator and employs the fanatosis and 424 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: then becomes roadkill. Yeah, now that that's unfortunate, but of 425 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: course that's really on us, not really on them. Road 426 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: screw up the whole scenario for wildlife. Now, it is 427 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: worth noting with the with the possum, uh that even 428 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: though it appears to be in a canatonic state, it's 429 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: metabolic processes are as high as when the animal is 430 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: fully alert. So in this we see the possum as 431 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: another example this kind of gray area between the idea 432 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: of tonic about immobility is a completely non voluntary reflex 433 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: and then the idea of fanatosis as a conscious ruse. Uh. 434 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: It's still an open question, okay. And that's the interesting 435 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: thing about tonic immobility and sharks, because there is this 436 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: idea that it is involuntary and that they're taking basically 437 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: there um their vitals down to the studs. Yeah, the 438 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: shark thing is really interesting, especially when you're looking at 439 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: great white sharks, which we already talked about earlier. This 440 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: is a this is an apex predator. This is a 441 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: big deal. So why in the world what a creature 442 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: like this um roll over and play dead when attacked 443 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: by an orca? Well here's the Okay, we'll get to 444 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: the But there is this idea that t I is 445 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: a defense mechanism that just is reflexive because they see 446 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: it more sense sensitive levels of it in female Great whites, 447 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: and female Great whites might do this to avoid mating. UM. 448 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: The interesting thing about it is that you can induce 449 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: it by touching certain areas of the great whites body, 450 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: specifically the nose area. And it's thought that UM, it's 451 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: this animal's sense of motor interchange with the environment that 452 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: causes a limp response in the animal displays relaxation in 453 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: muscle tone and deep rhythmic respiration. Again, taking those vittals 454 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: down to the studs, and sharks can enter into t 455 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: I into less than a minute, and if left alone 456 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: in tonic immobility, they can remain in that state for 457 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: up to fifteen minutes before eventually righting themselves. So animal 458 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: trainers will sometimes use this and they'll place their hands 459 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: lightly on the side of animal snout or it's eyes. 460 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: That's because there's something called ampuli of loren Zini and 461 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 1: these are special jelly filled sensory organs and they're extremely 462 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: sensitive and this enables a short to detect even the 463 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: faintest of changes in the electrical fields. And so there's 464 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: this idea that the animal is saying something very weird. 465 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: Is going on in my electromagnetic field. Let's turn off 466 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: the lights. So the idea here is that tonic and 467 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: mobility may present itself in sharks as a way to 468 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: help with the mating well or avoid the mating, or 469 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: avoid a predator. Although as you say, it's odd because 470 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: they are apex. Yeah, well, why would they have that 471 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: in their in their DNA unless it's you know, hold 472 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: over from from the past. Right. And the really interesting 473 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: thing about this is that the orca, the killer whill, 474 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: is hip to this. Yeah, it's a highly intelligent animal. Yeah, 475 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: it says, oh really, so you guys do that every 476 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: once in a while, you know. The ideas that they 477 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: have observed this behavior in great white Yeah, they say, oh, 478 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,959 Speaker 1: there's a there's more or less a button on your 479 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: face and if I push it, you go limp. Don't 480 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: mind if I do. And uh, And there have been 481 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: uh we've seen this several times and the waters of 482 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: the fair Lone Islands, the female oracle was observed to 483 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: hold a white shark upside down for fifteen minutes, uh, 484 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: effectively causing it to suffocate. And there's actually a whole 485 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: documentary titled The Whale that eight Jaws that that dives 486 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: into this uh this, this topic of shark knic and 487 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: mobility in a deeper way. Yeah. The idea is that 488 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: it basically goes in really hard and slams into that shark, 489 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: into the great white and then stums it. And then 490 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: once they do that, then they can go and they 491 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: can hit that mark on their face and flip it 492 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: over and essentially suffocate it. And they've actually seen the 493 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: Oorcas do this in pods with sting rays as well, 494 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: and you can see video of this is very intentional 495 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: with the sting rays where they take them, they actually 496 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: go in upside down so that they can slip the 497 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: stingray and render it immobile. All Right, we're gonna take 498 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: a quick break and when we come back, more santatosis, 499 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: more tonic and mobility and ducks, and we're back. Is 500 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: that really the plot line for that book? Yeah, that's 501 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: right off of audible. Okay, so look for that plot 502 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: line in the next season to True Blood. Yeah, I 503 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: know exactly what I'm gonna look up right after the 504 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: podcast here, alright, let's talk about n got eight tracks. 505 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: We've got all sorts of great uh BG songs playing 506 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: in the background, and we have a bunch of researchers 507 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: with about fifty ducks and some foxes. Yeah, this is 508 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: study published under the title death Feeding by Ducks in 509 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: response to Predation by red foxes um as in not 510 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: as in the comedian, but is in actual red foxes. Uh. 511 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,719 Speaker 1: And this appeared in American Midland Naturalists. So yeah, they 512 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: took about fifth year so ducks and they let the 513 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: fox have at them. Now, if you're familiar with foxes 514 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: at all, you know that they keep to themselves. They're 515 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: they're they're they're rarely seeing. Really, they're they're sly creatures. 516 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: And if one gets into a chicken coop, what happens, Well, 517 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: they go after them. Well, and they kill all the chickens. 518 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: That's the thing that like the idea of the foxes. 519 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 1: The fox is not going to go in and say, oh, 520 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: I will have a chicken today and maybe i'll be 521 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: back for chicken tomorrow. No, the fox is gonna say, well, 522 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna take all these chickens and I can 523 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: hide some away for later. So that's pretty much what 524 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: happens when the when the foxes get at the ducks, Uh, 525 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: they just start they start going after him. And what 526 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: did the ducks do in retaliation? Well, they play possum. 527 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: And what's interesting about this, besides the fact that the 528 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: researchers just tossed these fifty ducks into the cages of 529 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: these red foxes, again, it's nineteen five at this point. Um, 530 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: what's interesting about this in that in sixty of those trials, 531 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: the foxes quit their attacks when the ducks look to 532 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: be immobile or dead. Yeah, and apparently it was the 533 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: especially with the inexperienced foxes. They were like, whoa, what happened? 534 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: This duck was alive and thriving, and then that came 535 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: after and then went dead. Am I still supposed to 536 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,719 Speaker 1: eat it? I don't know. The experienced foxes, those are 537 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: the ones who who were not fooled by this at all. 538 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: They're like, all right, go ahead, play dad, makes it 539 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: easier for me. Well, and that's the interesting thing about 540 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: that attack with the great white is that when you 541 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: look at the documentary for it, what they say is 542 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 1: that that great white was inexperience. It should not have 543 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,239 Speaker 1: been hanging around a pod of white orcas um. And 544 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: so that's why it's rare. You don't see that happening 545 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: very often, you know, Orca going after great white. But 546 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: experience of as always plays into whether or not, you know, 547 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: organism is going to survive. Now, the death faints and 548 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: these ducks lasted anyone from twenty seconds to fourteen minutes, 549 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: with the recovery delayed by tactile visual or sound cues 550 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: from the foxes. So as the fox still touching me? 551 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: Do I hear it? Do it? Can I maybe see 552 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: the fox? Um? And twenty nine of the fifty ducks 553 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: survived the initial capture and handling. Uh. You know, then 554 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, maybe mouth you're killed or store and stored 555 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: away later. But the idea here is that tonic and 556 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: mobility fantatosis in this in this case with the ducks, 557 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: allowed them at least the potential of escaping later. And uh, 558 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: and you know, ultimately that's that's what matters. So you're 559 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: about to be eaten by a fox? What are you 560 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: gonna What are you gonna do? What makes more sense? 561 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: What from an evolutionary standpoint like a which is the 562 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: higher percentage of rate of possible survival? De Yeah, obviously 563 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: you're probably gonna get some things in your neck unless 564 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: you use deception right. Yeah, So in this we see 565 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: highly adapted behavior makes a possible the duck to potentially 566 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: escape that foxy death. But the foxes have rolled with 567 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: the punches. They're smart to this, their hip to it. 568 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: So in many cases they're learning to kill some of 569 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: the ducks after capture. And they're also adapting appendage severing 570 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: behavior so that they can at least hobble their their 571 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: meals once they take them way. All right, So next 572 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: we should talk about the nursery web spider. And we 573 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: have talked about sexual cannibalism in spiders, particularly when they 574 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: are mating, because we find that sometimes when the female 575 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: is mating with a male, particularly with the orb spiders. Right, Uh, 576 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: not only will they say okay, hey we're mating, but 577 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: the female might just chomp off your head and say 578 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: I was hungry. By the way, so thanks for bringing 579 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: yourself over here. So, if you are a male spider 580 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: approaching potential mate, and this is from Map of Life 581 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: Convergent Evolution online, it says, uh, the mood of that 582 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: potential mate may swear from uh amatory to predatory, and 583 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: sexual cannibalism is a constant risk. If you are a 584 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: male spider, so what do you do, Well, it helps 585 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: bring a gift. It's true. Yes, the male nursery web 586 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: spiders will bring a silk wrapped gift to their potential mates. 587 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: And they're basically two kinds of gifts, well, aren't there always? 588 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: They're good gifts and they're bad gifts. And in the 589 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,959 Speaker 1: spider economy of things, that means there are edible gifts 590 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: and they are inedible gifts. A good edible gift we 591 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: might be, you know, insect parts, the head of a 592 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: tasty insect, a little gut action wrapped up in that, 593 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: in that the little cocoon. But then a bad gift 594 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: and inedible gift might be seeds which the spiders have 595 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: no interest in or at worst of all, this is 596 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: particularly hilarious, an empty exoskeleton of an insect that the 597 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: male spider himself consumed. That's that's It's like bringing an 598 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: empty box of Valentine's chocolates to your beloved and saying, 599 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: here you go, oh, by the way, I ate all 600 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: the chocolates in the box. So what happens when she 601 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: unwraps that and finds that her nice little protein source 602 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: is not there, that it was a ruse? Well, you 603 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: have to have something in your back pocket here. Yeah, 604 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: and you know, guys, we've all been there. This is 605 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, you know how it goes you. You present, 606 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, a potential girlfriend with a gift you didn't 607 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: have time to stop off at the store. Yeah, so 608 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: it's not a great gift. They don't like it. So 609 00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: what do you do? You fake your own death and 610 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: you try again tomorrow after you're out again with a 611 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: different gift, maybe even a better one. Because that's essentially 612 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: what the spider does if the Spider present. Because because 613 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: if you don't have a gift in the in the 614 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: nursery Web Spider world, you can still made, but your 615 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: chances of making a significantly less if you if you 616 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: don't have the gift, and then if you have the gift, 617 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: your chances are significantly higher. A prolonged mating is that 618 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: is a tasty, edible gift. So if things are going 619 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: south with your gift exchange of it doesn't look like 620 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: it's gonna work. You do you faint? You say oh 621 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm dad, You pull a hornburger, fake your own death 622 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: and maybe you'll get to do it tomorrow. Nice thirty 623 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: rock reference. So the thing is too, is that if 624 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: you fake it, if you're fainting there, you're still copulating. Okay, 625 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: you're just looking like you're copulating, slumping over, I suppose, um. 626 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: And so what this does is it increases the length 627 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,239 Speaker 1: of compulation. It might also save your life. So at 628 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: the end of the day, though, it is an adaptive 629 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: male mating strategy as well. Yeah, I mean you could 630 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: imagine a similar thing working with humans where the female 631 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: says we're done, and the male says, oh, I'm sorry, 632 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: I just died, or you know, just snoring. Dr Sarah 633 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: the Octave she wrote a great little article called Playing Possum, 634 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: and she talks about the hog no snake in this instance, 635 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: and she says that it rolls onto its back and 636 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: appears to be dead when threatened by predator. And this 637 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: is great. A foul smelling volatile fluid oozes from its body. 638 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,479 Speaker 1: I wish I could do this um. Predators like cats 639 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: would then lose interest because it smells dead and it 640 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: looks dead, right, And one of the reasons why it 641 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: would lose interest, why when you start poking around, is 642 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: that that rotten smell might be you know, as we've 643 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: talked about this in nature, big, hey, watch out, there 644 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: could be an infectious disease going on here. Usually that's 645 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: what we know sort of discussed that we feel is 646 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: an innate response against infection or disease. So that's why 647 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: it works so well in the Hog No Snake because 648 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: when we talk about vultures in that episode, we did 649 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: a whole episode on on buzzards and vultures a while back. 650 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: We really got into how souped up that organism has 651 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: to be to handle a lifestyle of eating dead animals 652 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: because they basically have to be disease proof to a 653 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:18,479 Speaker 1: certain extent. So obviously animals that have adapted their entire 654 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: existence to eating fresh kills are not going to go 655 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: that rope exactly. So if the cat can't throw up 656 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: on it and have a high pH you know, of 657 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: acidity in its stomach, then it's probably not going to 658 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: consume that snake, right, all right? So who else does it? Well? 659 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, young fire ant workers under attack from neighboring 660 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,439 Speaker 1: ant colonies. Uh. This this is really interesting because it's 661 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: not the whole colony playing dead, but just the the young, 662 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: the young ones, the young members of the of the colony. 663 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: So the thing is they can't really contribute much to 664 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: the defense of the colony because their mandibles and stingers 665 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: are not sufficiently hardened to penetrate the external skeletons of 666 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: the aggressors, so they're far more valuable. The argument is 667 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: in the clean up and rebuilding phase after the attack. 668 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: So when the when the enemy troops roll in, they 669 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: just lay dead and they're not getting up and using 670 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: it as a ruse to then attack. But they're The 671 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: idea is that they can't really contribute to the defense anyway. 672 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: Their best use is rebuilding afterwards, which is brilliant. Yeah. 673 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: But we have another example. Oh yes, and this one's 674 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: really cool because it's a particular fish, the sleeper chichwood, 675 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: also known as the Livington stoney um. It's named after 676 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: Dr David Livingston, the famous explorer. Dr Livingston I presenting, 677 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: uh you'll find uh find these guys freshwater Africa. Widespread 678 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: in Lake Malai, Upper Shire River and Lake Malombie. They 679 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: live in soft muddy bottoms and their solitary. They have 680 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: this really modeled kind of corpse light color and they 681 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: have they've they've been observed to do to pull this uh, 682 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: this ruse where they mimic a dead fish, you know, 683 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: on their side toward the bottom, and then when small 684 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: fish move in to get a bite to scavenge, then 685 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,959 Speaker 1: they wake up and eat themselves, some all scavenger fish. 686 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: So they're they're completely ignoring the Geneva Convention law. Right, Yeah, 687 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: these guys are definitely just throwing any kind of moral 688 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,439 Speaker 1: military law to the wind. But but it's interesting because 689 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: it stands out as a as a really interesting example 690 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: of an animal playing dead, uh for predatory purposes and 691 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: not defensive purposes. And you know, again, I will go 692 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: back to Louis c. K's bit about this whole thing 693 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: about humans being you know, the apex species and not 694 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,479 Speaker 1: and getting out of the food chain and not having 695 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: to worry about this stuff. And and he's saying, and 696 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: I believe the show is called Oh my God. He says, 697 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, we really take it for granted that sometimes 698 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: we get to die in bed with our loved ones 699 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: around us, while all the other species, for the most part, 700 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,439 Speaker 1: you know, they've got a pair of fangs in their 701 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: neck and they're there. You know, that's how they meet 702 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: their end. So you know, you you think about something 703 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: like playing possum or tonic and mobilit or fanatists. Yeah, 704 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: of course they would do that. But no, yes, of 705 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: course you would do that if you were in the 706 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: food chain. Yeah. I mean, I can imagine having this 707 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,439 Speaker 1: conversation with my cat, who is now an indoor cat 708 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: ever since she ran away a few years back and 709 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: she's too old to live out there on her own. 710 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: But we'll have this conversation where she says, I would 711 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: like to go outside now, and I say, you can't 712 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: go outside. If you go outside, you're going to die. 713 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: You're gonna get run over, one of the young feral 714 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: cats is gonna kill you. A dog is gonna get you. 715 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: And her answer would be, well, that's how it goes. 716 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: That's how you die. That's what dying is about. Eventually 717 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: something eats you or crushes you, uh in some way, 718 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: shape or form. This idea of dying quietly and peacefully 719 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 1: on your own terms, uh, in the house, that's more 720 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 1: of a human thing. Yeah, And she's like, if the 721 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: coyote gets me gets me, Yeah, that's part of the thrill. 722 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 1: So there you have it. Playing Bed for Survival an introduction, 723 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: we ran through some interesting examples, and I do want 724 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: to point out that I was inspired to pursue this 725 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: topic after meeting a possum with my son at Aware 726 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: Wildlife Center in the Atlanta area. If you want to 727 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: look them up, go to Aware one dot org. They're 728 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: a federally recognized tax exempt nonprofit organization of volunteers working 729 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: to preserve and restore wildlife and its habitat through education 730 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: and wildhigh life rehabilitation. So people find like an owl 731 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: that's been injured, they bring it in. They find other 732 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 1: wild animals that have that that have been injured or abandoned, 733 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: they bring them in and UH and then if possible, 734 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: they re release them and you and they depend on 735 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: donations from supporters. UH. Just to give you an example 736 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: of how where the money goes, Like ninety three dollars 737 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,399 Speaker 1: that'll rehabilitate a fox, hundred thirteen dollars will get a hawk, 738 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: forty dollars a possum. They're a little cheaper eighty six 739 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: dollars for an owl, twenty dollars for a rabbit, six 740 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: dollars for a songbird, fifty one dollars for a squirrel. 741 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: UH And the the average costs thou to real rehabilitate 742 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: an animal is seventy five dollars. So anyway, a where 743 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 1: one dot org and they're a really good organization in 744 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: the Atlanta area, So especially for our Atlanta area listeners. 745 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: If you care about wildlife and those possums wandering out 746 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: on the road, check them out. Indeed, and possum comes 747 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: a calling at your backdooring that you left some garbage out. 748 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: Don't answer that call. Do not answer to call it 749 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: the possum. Hey. And if you want to check out 750 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: more of our stuff, go to stuff to Blow your 751 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: Mind dot com. That's our mothership. That's where all the 752 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: podcast episodes are, all the blog posts, all the videos. 753 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,240 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Facebook, Tumbler, Twitter, Google Plus, 754 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,399 Speaker 1: on YouTube or mind stuff Show. And then what about 755 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: the good old email? Oh yeah, you can send it 756 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: to you below the mind at discovery dot com. For 757 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how 758 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com.