1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you production if 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 2: I heard you, and it is time for another edition 4 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 2: of Female First, which means we are once again joined 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: by the terrific, the talented Eves. 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 3: Welcome Eves. 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: Hi always so happy to have you on, and as usual, 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 2: you have been up to all kinds of things. 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 3: What have you been doing? Eaves? 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 4: So I guess we were talking a little bit before 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 4: the show started about I got my Wilderness First Responder 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 4: certification recently, and I got to spend a little time 13 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 4: in western North Carolina, which I like to go to 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 4: in general anyway, a beautiful place. So I got to 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 4: spend time there and do something that's not at all 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 4: related to what everybody listening knows before, which is writing 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 4: and history and podcasting. But if y'all have been listening 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,919 Speaker 4: long enough, then y'all know that I do love outdoor stuff, 19 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 4: and I care a lot about how we relate to 20 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 4: each other in the outdoors. I care a lot about 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 4: black people being in the outdoors and have become more 22 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 4: and more interested in outdoor leadership in recent years, and 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 4: also in the ways that I can contribute to community 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 4: care as the world changes in so many different ways. 25 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 4: But it's like one of those things where it's like 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 4: I can, so I will, Like I know that I am. 27 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 4: I am willing to learn the skills of caring for 28 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 4: people in the wilderness if any emergency situation should happen. 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 4: So it's kind of like, Okay, well, if I'm willing to, 30 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 4: there are plenty of other people who aren't willing to, 31 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 4: then I will. And I know those skills are transferable 32 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 4: outside of wilderness context too, So yeah, a lot of 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 4: reasoning behind it, but yeah, that was that was definitely 34 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 4: a recent highlight for me. 35 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: And we love that about you use always that kind 36 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 2: of drive to learn. It's so important and it's one 37 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: of the reasons that I think media like this is 38 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: important is that curiosity and sharing that curiosity and this 39 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: relates to the person you are talking about today. But 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: before we get into that, I want to ask you, 41 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: have you ever ridden a horse? 42 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 4: Uh? Yes, but it's been like a really, really really 43 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 4: long time so when I was a child. I don't 44 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 4: remember where are when exactly, but I know that I have. 45 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 4: It's like also one of those things where it's like, oh, 46 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 4: they're horse riding, Like there are horse riding places where 47 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 4: you can do to go horse riding, if I'm if there, 48 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 4: if I'm on an excursion, if I'm somewhere, there are 49 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 4: excursions related to horse riding basically, and I usually I 50 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 4: always think about doing them, and I don't do them, 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 4: but I would like to some more. 52 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: What about y'all. 53 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: I rode a horse. 54 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: When I was nine, and it was at a fair, 55 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: and I swear I got chicken pox from it, but 56 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: I probably just got chicken pox from the fair. And 57 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: then there's a place near where I grew up where 58 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: you could ride horses and go on like trails and stuff, 59 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: and I did that. I remember it being more painful 60 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: than I thought it would be, actually. 61 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 3: And then some people in my family had. 62 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: Horses and I was incredibly jealous, but I never got 63 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: to ride write any of them. 64 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 5: So I'm just thinking, I know I'm not gonna do it. 65 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: There's this famous story used where I was blamed for 66 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: killing a horse. 67 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 3: I did in the back of my head. 68 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: That's one of the first things I learned about. Oh, 69 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: I was very fascinated. 70 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 5: But all that to say, I have not ridden horses. 71 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:53,839 Speaker 5: They scare the hell out of me. I'm like, they're 72 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 5: modern day dinosaurs to me, but they are like really 73 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 5: pretty to look at from Afar and I did work 74 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 5: with When I worked with children, it would do volunteer 75 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 5: and making because they were therapy horses and they were wonderful. 76 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 5: So we would come through and clean and have like 77 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 5: lessons and like people like it's one of the best 78 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 5: things to have young kids who get to try new things. 79 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 5: And being around horses with the crew that I had 80 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 5: was not something they did often, so we really were 81 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 5: excited to be able to work with them. So a 82 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 5: lot of people who care and have horses, but I 83 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 5: am actually petrified of horses because to me, they're like 84 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 5: giant animals that could just run me down and it 85 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 5: could exactly, So I'm like, no, thank you, I'm gonna 86 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 5: respect you from way far over here. 87 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: That's smart. 88 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 3: They sure a lot of horror movies. 89 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 5: They are like, would I feel like it's something that 90 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 5: maybe later down the road if the apocalypse type of 91 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 5: things happened, I need to learn to ride one, just 92 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 5: in cases. But I'm like, at the same time, like, 93 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 5: but is it worth the cost? Maybe I'll just you know, 94 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 5: lay down and give up after that, Like. 95 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 4: You know what that is so funny you said that, Samantha, 96 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 4: because I literally was talking to my husband about this 97 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 4: when we were driving somewhere and I when I passed 98 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 4: things and I'm in a romantic mood, like when I'm 99 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 4: when I'm like romance seeing the world, you know what 100 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 4: I mean, when just everything looks imagining, Yeah, everything looks wonderful. 101 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 4: I'm like, I want a horse, And I was thinking 102 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 4: about like how useful that skill would be in apocalypse 103 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 4: because I am I am in the process of like 104 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 4: trying to acquire apocalypse skills, which is another reason this 105 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 4: wilderness first responder thing comes in handy and why learning 106 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 4: to drive stick chef. I'm gotten a lot better at 107 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 4: it now. 108 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: I feel like I needed it. 109 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 4: Yes, And so horse horses are definitely on the list 110 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 4: because if you look at all the apocalypse stuff, it's like, Okay, 111 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 4: no fuel needed. Horses are around, They're strong, they're plentiful, 112 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 4: and you know, have been helping humans out for a 113 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 4: really long time. But yes, is it worth it? Is 114 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 4: the question, like, there's so many other things for us 115 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 4: to learn in the world, is that one of them? 116 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 5: And it's a skill I'm always impressed and seeing like 117 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 5: rodeo shows are people who actually just love horses and 118 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 5: really care and put a lot of work into training 119 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 5: themselves and horses. I feel like that's such a skill. 120 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 5: But yeah, I feel like that's something that I have bypassed, 121 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 5: Like it feels like a thing that again with all 122 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 5: the pain, I'm like, I have too many knee problems, 123 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 5: too many back problems to me like this this is 124 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 5: not for me. But I also do am glad that 125 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 5: you are taking all these classes, Eaves, because I now 126 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 5: I'm gonna put you on my team and like this 127 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 5: is how we survived. 128 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: Yes, she's a part of the cry the ranks. 129 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: First, So who are we talking about today, Eves. 130 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 4: We're talking about Sylvia ride out Bishop And I think 131 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 4: I was trying to remember when I came across her 132 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 4: because she's been on my list for a really long 133 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 4: time and I just wanted to read the book that's 134 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 4: that exist about her before I brought her, and I 135 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 4: was trying to figure out the right time and what 136 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 4: felt right. Sometimes I'm weird about who I bring ons, 137 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 4: Like I have people on the list forever and I'm 138 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 4: just like waiting for a time that feels right and 139 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 4: now just felt right, But I think it was when 140 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 4: I was like going to a national park in West Virginia. 141 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 4: I was at New River Gorge. I think this was 142 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 4: around that time, and so I was thinking about black 143 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 4: history in West Virginia, and I think that might have 144 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 4: been when I came across Sylvia write out Bishop. But 145 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 4: either way, I'm excited to talk about her today. She 146 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 4: was the first black woman who was licensed to train 147 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 4: racehorses in the United States. And her history. She's from 148 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 4: West Virginia. So should I get started again to our story. 149 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it. 150 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: Cool. 151 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 4: So her parents were Bertha and James Howard ride Out. 152 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 4: They got married in May of nineteen fifteen in Charlestown, 153 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 4: West Virginia. She was seventeen and he was and their 154 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 4: first child, Flora Laine, was born in February of nineteen sixteen. 155 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 4: So James was drafted into the army in October in 156 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 4: nineteen seventeen, and he served as a food service cook 157 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 4: in France. But the war ended and by June of 158 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 4: nineteen nineteen, James had returned back home from France, and 159 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 4: Sylvia was born on October fifth, nineteen twenty in Charlestown, 160 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 4: West Virginia. She was her parents' fourth daughter, not the last. 161 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: They had a lot of kids. 162 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 4: At first she was named Cora, and later her name 163 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 4: was changed to Sylvia Augusta write Out. Now she had 164 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 4: sixteen siblings, not all of them though lived past their 165 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 4: toddler years, but their family they grew fruits and vegetables 166 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 4: in their backyard. 167 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: They also had hogs. 168 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 4: And chickens, and they lived in this community called Potato Hill, 169 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 4: which was on the west side of Charlestown. Now, Sylvia's 170 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 4: childhood is interesting, but like not unusual, because when she 171 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 4: was almost two years old, she went to live with 172 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 4: a couple not far away, Lavina and William Payne. They 173 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 4: had a lot of children, but you know, so this 174 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 4: other family helped take care of her. They didn't have 175 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 4: any children themselves, Lavina and William didn't, but still Sylvia 176 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 4: was apparently the only one out of all of her 177 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 4: siblings who was sent to live outside of the house. 178 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 4: And Sylvia said this, She said, my mother was sick 179 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 4: and I was the baby, and the pains were very 180 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:40,359 Speaker 4: good friends, so it seemed like it was a timing situation. 181 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: They were good friends. She would take care of her. 182 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 4: They had a lot of children, and like it wasn't 183 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 4: unusual for a family with a lot of children to 184 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 4: seek help from outside the family to help them care 185 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 4: for and raise a child. But yeah, so she said 186 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 4: that in this book called Sylvia, Ride Out, Bishop Had 187 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 4: Away with Horses, that's by Vicki Moons, So you can 188 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 4: find a lot of information about Sylvia, Ride Out Bishop, 189 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 4: and about horse racing in general in that book. And 190 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 4: I just wanted to call that out up front because like, 191 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 4: a lot of the information that we'll talk about today 192 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 4: from Sylvia is from that book, and it's a pretty 193 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 4: good resource for her story, but also like horse racing 194 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 4: in general, because as a whole it's its own world, 195 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 4: there's a lot to learn about it. There's a lot 196 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 4: of history in there, and there's a lot of Black 197 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 4: history specifically there too, so that's a good resource. But anyway, 198 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 4: Sylvia was baptized from April first, nineteen twenty three, and 199 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 4: at that time the Pains were listed as sponsors and 200 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 4: as godparents to Sylvia. The Pain family, the way it's 201 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 4: described in the book, really took good care of Sylvia. 202 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 4: She got new clothes a lot, and in the winter, 203 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 4: Sylvia would go back home with her parents and siblings, 204 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 4: while the Pains went to Florida with their employers. So 205 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 4: there were some back and forth. She would go back 206 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 4: to her house with the she would be with the Pains, 207 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 4: and then she would go back to her parents, and 208 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 4: then she would be with the Pain So she went 209 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 4: back and forth. And they didn't live far from each other, 210 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 4: but it was so like they were so close and 211 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 4: they took care of her for so long that Sylvia 212 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 4: even later inherited a home from the Pains. But we'll 213 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 4: talk more about that a little bit later. But yeah, 214 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 4: on Easter Sunday in nineteen twenty nine, kind of this 215 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 4: is part of her origin story with horses, a man 216 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 4: was going from house to house selling a two minute 217 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 4: ride on his pony named Targa, which she never forgot 218 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 4: that pony's name, apparently, and that ride would be ten cents, 219 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 4: and to take a photo that would be an extra quarter. 220 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 4: Please look at the photos in that book. There are 221 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 4: some photos, but there is such a cute photo of 222 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 4: her when she's young and on that horse. But it's 223 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 4: really nice to look at those photos and see how 224 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 4: clearly enthusiastic she was about it at the time. And 225 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 4: she did love that experience. She loved riding the horse, 226 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 4: and she talked about the way it smelled. And it's 227 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 4: funny because apparently the way people smell horses, they smell 228 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 4: them differently, so they have like the way they think 229 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 4: about the smell of horses people who ride them. 230 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: It's all different. 231 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 4: But I do like its smells are so often associated 232 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 4: with memories because one of those things. So it's interesting 233 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 4: that she talked about the smells. But yeah, she went 234 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 4: to the Eagle Avenue School, which was also called the 235 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 4: Charlestown District Colored School, and in December of nineteen thirty three, 236 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 4: a racetrack opened in Charlestown. It had twelve stables, forty 237 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 4: four bedding windows, and it had a heated grandstand. And 238 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 4: Sylvia began going to that racetrack. She was watching the trainer, 239 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 4: she was watching the horses, and just after she finished 240 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 4: the eighth grade, she began working at the racetrack. So 241 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 4: she starts attending Store College in Harper's Ferry when she 242 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 4: was a ninth grade student. 243 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,559 Speaker 1: Because there were no high schools for. 244 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 4: Black students, and she continued living with the pains, and 245 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 4: like I said, they took care of her, so they 246 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 4: bought her car so she could drive herself to school. 247 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 3: She was helped. 248 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 4: She was working in the school kitchen in the lunch 249 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 4: room as well though to help pay her tuition to 250 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 4: the school, and her classmates would sometimes ride with her 251 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 4: to the school and help her pay for gas. But 252 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 4: to earn extra money, Sylvia would walk the horses after 253 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 4: their morning workouts at the track, and during her time 254 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 4: that she worked there, she was learning more about caring 255 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 4: for horses, so she was basically learning on the job. 256 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 4: But after three years at store College she had to leave. 257 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 4: She had to work. She didn't graduate from there, and 258 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 4: Lavinia Payne was sick. But in October of nineteen forty 259 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:03,359 Speaker 4: three she purchased two lots of land from her grandfather, 260 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 4: Charles A. 261 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: Snowden. 262 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 4: The lots weren't that far from her childhood home in 263 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 4: Potato Hill, and a couple of years after that she 264 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 4: married John Bishop at St. Philip's Episcopal Church in Charlestown. 265 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 4: They got a dog, a Dalmatian named Tank and like you, Samantha, 266 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 4: not to call you out. He was afraid of the horses. Yeah, 267 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 4: he liked betting on them. But apparently, according to like 268 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 4: family members' family friends. He was pretty dang unscared of 269 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 4: the horses, but that didn't stop him from being involved 270 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 4: in the business and being married to Sylvia, who was 271 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 4: clearly very involved with horses. But yeah, so in nineteen 272 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 4: forty six, Sylvia sold the two lots that she brought 273 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 4: bought from her grand father, and John was like so, 274 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 4: although he supported Sylvia, he himself was more interested in 275 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 4: the entertainment industry. He would produce musical events, like he 276 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 4: produced one that was at what was previously John Brown's farm, 277 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 4: and he was interested in like the Chitlin circuit. But 278 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 4: in nineteen forty seven, Sylvia and John bought an inn 279 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 4: near Charlestown for four thousand dollars. They didn't pay all 280 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 4: of that upfront. I think it was like two thousand 281 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 4: dollars or so. They paid upfront and then they paid 282 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 4: the rest later. But John had a night club there. 283 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 4: He was involved there at night since Sylvia was doing 284 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 4: all this work during the day. And in July of 285 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 4: nineteen fifty one, Sylvia and John they drove to the 286 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 4: Cumberland Fair in Cumberland, Maryland. The fair had horse races, 287 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 4: and Sylvia's horse booth play won her race by six lengths. 288 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 4: Sylvia won six hundred and twenty five dollars and John 289 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 4: betting Man won fifty seven dollars and eighty cents. But yeah, 290 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 4: they used apparently John was a fan of Buick's. There 291 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 4: were a few Buicks in their story. Sylvia and John 292 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 4: used that money that they wanted to make a down 293 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 4: payment on a nineteen forty nine Buick and in bou 294 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 4: Plays four years of racing and thirty two races, that 295 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 4: was the only time that Boo Play won. 296 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: But not to. 297 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 4: Fret like, there were a lot of other wins in 298 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 4: Sylvia's history and all of the horses that she trained. 299 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 4: But yeah, the bishop's horses Quick News and Wise Bet 300 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 4: they won races in May of nineteen fifty three in 301 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 4: Ohio and they ended up earning the bishops after those 302 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 4: races more money in June on the Ohio circuit. So 303 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 4: there are there, I mean, so many races that Sylvia 304 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 4: did over the course of her career. It would be 305 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 4: like it would take forever to go through all of 306 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 4: them in this episode, So we're not going to do that. 307 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 4: You can go read about more of them if you're 308 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 4: interested in the intricacies of how much they won each time, 309 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 4: where all of the races were, how long the horse's 310 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 4: careers were, a little bit more about the horses, the 311 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 4: people who were the jockeys. All of that stuff is 312 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 4: in the book, but just know that Sylvia was She 313 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 4: was to trained horses for many races for many people 314 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 4: over the years. And at first Sylvia was training horses 315 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 4: under the radars. She didn't have a license, so her 316 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 4: name would not be listed in like the official programs. 317 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 4: Her husband, for instance, would be recorded as the trainer 318 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 4: on the programs, even though he wasn't actually involved with 319 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 4: the day to day operations and training of the horse, 320 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 4: he was still listed as a trainer. And you know, 321 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 4: while he was listed, Sylvia was the one who was 322 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 4: like cleaning the stalls. She would be wrapping the horse's legs, 323 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 4: and she would be up early in the morning training 324 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 4: the horses. But Sylvia got pregnant and on January fifth, 325 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 4: nineteen fifty eight, she was lifting a saddle onto a 326 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 4: horse when her water broke and her daughter, Laverne Augusta 327 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 4: Bishop was born. Sylvia was about thirty seven years old 328 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 4: at the time, and she took like six months off 329 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 4: of racing, and she had help She had a nanny 330 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 4: named Sarah Eliza Jones, who lived with them until she 331 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 4: died in the late nineteen seventies. Although Laverne, I mean, 332 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 4: I don't know she had a lot of siblings. Sylvia 333 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 4: had a lot of siblings, and Laverne her daughter, though 334 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 4: there were her siblings who were also invested in horse 335 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 4: racing too, but Laverne didn't end up having the same 336 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 4: amount of enthusiasm and commitment to horse racing that her 337 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 4: mother did, but still she grew up around horses. But yeah, 338 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 4: in nineteen fifty nine, Sylvia did take the exam to 339 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 4: become a licensed racehorse trainer, and that's where her first 340 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 4: comes in. So people would have to have a state 341 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,959 Speaker 4: permit for three years and another racing job before they 342 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 4: could apply, and there was a written and a practical 343 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 4: part of the test. So the written part of the 344 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 4: test would be like you know, talking, you have to 345 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 4: answer questions about how to care for horses, and then 346 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 4: there was a practical where you actually have to work 347 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 4: with a horse. If someone didn't pass the test, they 348 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 4: would have to wait six months to a year to 349 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 4: retake it. 350 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: So it was a pretty big deal. But Sylvia did. 351 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 4: Pass her tests and she got her license, and so 352 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 4: she got her first the first black woman licensed to 353 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 4: train racehorses in the United States. So Sylvia did face 354 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 4: racial engender discrimination during her time working as a trainer, 355 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 4: Like in general, it wasn't seen the racetrack wasn't seen 356 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 4: as a place for women, Black women especially, so she 357 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 4: faced like people calling her negative epithets because she was black. 358 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 4: But you know, she she was also working in West Virginia, 359 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 4: so people at larger racetracks didn't always know about Sylvia. 360 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 4: But you know, the way that her family members described 361 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 4: her is like she didn't really she. 362 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: Didn't really talk much. She was she was grateful for 363 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: what she did. 364 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 4: She enjoyed her job, and she didn't really like have 365 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 4: a lot to say about those experiences that she dealt with. 366 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 4: But yeah, Sylvia and an attorney who was named Lee 367 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 4: Buschong eventually teamed up to breed racehorses with with Sylvia's 368 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 4: retired mayor, who was named Chalky. Chalky died in nineteen 369 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 4: sixty seven when she was giving birth to her fifth 370 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 4: fall and Sylvia had her own methods of like taking 371 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 4: care of her horses. She seems like she was really 372 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 4: in tune with her horses. So it's described as that 373 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 4: she would even maybe no more than her vets. She 374 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 4: would go to her vets, but she would just be 375 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 4: able to look at a horse and tell them what 376 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 4: was wrong with them without any sort of, you know, 377 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 4: extra investigation. It's like, oh, if you look here, then 378 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 4: you can see this is what's wrong with the horse. 379 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 4: So she fed her horses wheat germ oil that would 380 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 4: help with their making their coats shinier. She would feed 381 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 4: them flax mill which would apparently help them shed their 382 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 4: winter coats. She gave them peppermint candy as a treat. 383 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 4: She would put jello in their feets, which was apparently 384 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 4: helpful for their hooves, and she would also put guinness 385 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 4: in their feet from time to time because it would 386 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 4: encourage them to eat and maybe sweat more. But when 387 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 4: she was training her horses, she was working with them 388 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 4: as individuals, so based on what she would see, based 389 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 4: on what she would observe about their mood and how 390 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 4: they did in their sessions together, that's based that's what 391 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 4: she would base her treatment of them on and her 392 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 4: care for them on. But in nineteen sixty three, she 393 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 4: and John separated and they ended up divorcing in July 394 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 4: of nineteen sixty seven. She said that he went into 395 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 4: the music business and they didn't see eye to eye. 396 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 4: He stayed in the entertainment business, and he did keep 397 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 4: in touch with Laverne, although Sylvia had custody of Laverne. 398 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 4: But Sylvia continued to train horses for many owners. Now, 399 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 4: she did struggle financially. So throughout her story you'll see 400 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 4: like she owe people money. She had trouble paying for things. 401 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 4: She borrowed money to be able to pay for supplies 402 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 4: for her horses. When she would earn things like earn 403 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 4: money from the races, that's when she would go and 404 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 4: buy a pickup truck. And that pickup truck was like 405 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 4: to help her with work, so it would help her 406 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 4: haull things. So there were definitely financial struggles throughout her life. 407 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,959 Speaker 4: Like so, horse racing wasn't something that made her like 408 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 4: in really rich during her lifetime, but to make extra money. 409 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 4: In nineteen seventy four, Sylvia did pick up another job 410 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 4: and she was working at a double day publishing factory 411 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 4: in Barryville, Virginia. She still lived at her house in Charlestown, 412 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 4: but she wasn't training at the racetrack. During the time 413 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 4: she was working at that factory, she did end up 414 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 4: getting married to another man named Theodore Wells, although they 415 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 4: divorced in July of nineteen seventy six. So, yeah, she's 416 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 4: working at the factory trying to make extra money. But 417 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 4: she left her job in the factory in nineteen eighty six, 418 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 4: so the whole time she hadn't forgot about working at 419 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 4: the racetrack. She wanted to go back to racing, and 420 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 4: she did that. In eighty seven. She bought a horse 421 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 4: name half Quacked, and that horse won her first race, 422 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 4: but none of the races with Sylvia after that one, unfortunately, 423 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 4: and she still needed more money. So in the nineties 424 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 4: she was renting out rooms in Payning's Hotel, which was 425 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 4: a twenty one or twenty room house that she inherited 426 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 4: from Lavinea Pain and there was a tap room that 427 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 4: was on that bottom floor and the venue was pretty 428 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,239 Speaker 4: popular with the black folks in the community. But by 429 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight, she was like still struggling with bills. 430 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 4: She had medical bills, she had utility bills, credit card bills, 431 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 4: and she had like close to twenty thousand dollars worth 432 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 4: of unpaid income tax, so she ended up having to 433 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 4: borrow against her home. But she was still racing the horses. 434 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 4: She was still training racehorses, and between eighty seven and 435 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 4: two thousand and she raced three hundred and forty nine 436 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 4: times and she won forty four times, and the horses 437 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 4: that she trained won just over one hundred and sixty 438 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 4: six thousand dollars. But yeah, she was getting older and 439 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 4: in January of nineteen ninety nine she sold her home 440 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 4: for sixty five thousand dollars. She went to move into 441 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 4: the Charles Towers and her family promised to come check 442 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 4: in on her take care of her. But even though 443 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,239 Speaker 4: she sold her home, she still had to pay her 444 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 4: mortgage off and there was an income tax lean so 445 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 4: there wasn't a ton of money left over after that, 446 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 4: but she ended up retiring from racing. Then she was 447 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 4: honored though in her lifetime. In two thousand and three, 448 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 4: the West Virginia Legislature honored her as the first licensed 449 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 4: black female thoroughbred horse trainer in the US and West Virginia, 450 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 4: and she's had a plaque. 451 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: Dedicated to her. 452 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 4: I think it was last year that there was a 453 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 4: ceremony with the sign put up about her in West Virginia. 454 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 4: But yeah, she woke up sick on Christmas Day in 455 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 4: two thousand and four. She was put in an ambulance, went 456 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 4: to the hospital, and she died a couple of days 457 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 4: later on December twenty seventh, two thousand and four. And 458 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 4: that's the story of Sylvia write up. 459 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 3: Bishop. 460 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 2: I'm really glad you brought this one as always, and 461 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 2: I'm really interested to read this book because it sounds 462 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: like this whole world of horse racing is something I 463 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 2: just know nothing about, and I love it. Sounds like 464 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 2: she was so she cared about the horses so much, 465 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 2: and she had this just love that was there from 466 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: when she was a child, Like it was just something 467 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: she felt. And I always loved to see that when 468 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: people we do get to follow that that spark inside them. 469 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: It is unfortunate that she wasn't making that much money 470 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,239 Speaker 2: from it, but I'm glad that she got to do it. 471 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: She seemed to really love it. 472 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, she did, and like her, she had a child, 473 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 4: she had grandchildren too that had become invested in horse 474 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,479 Speaker 4: racing and horses, and also like her siblings, also were 475 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 4: in horse racings and working with horses too, so you know, 476 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 4: even beyond her legacy was also something her family was 477 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 4: involved in and still is. So it's not like when 478 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 4: she passed away, you know, every all of her legacy 479 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 4: ended with horse racing. It still continued, and you know, 480 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 4: she had stuff named after her and she was put 481 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 4: in halls of in the Hall of Fame in West Virginia. 482 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 4: So yeah, it's it's pretty inspiring still. 483 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 5: You know, I like that you have details about or 484 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 5: they gave details about the food in the diets of 485 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 5: those horses, like that is so specific that that was 486 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 5: very important to the narrative and the story that she 487 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 5: knew exactly how to care for them, like she was 488 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 5: doing things way in advance that people are talking about. 489 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, she knew what she was like, I 490 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 5: gotta do this for the hair, make our glow, make 491 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 5: it pretty. You gotta do this for the guinness. Another highlight, 492 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 5: the jello threw me off from this whole lot. 493 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 4: Well apparently it was you know, gelatine is supposed to 494 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 4: be good for it, so it had something you know, 495 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 4: it was kind of along those lines. I know that 496 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 4: it was like some stuff was had a little bit 497 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 4: more truth to. 498 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: It than other things did. 499 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 4: And there were a lot of things that people were 500 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 4: doing because it was competitive also, so I mean, you know, 501 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 4: I woul didn't really get too much into it. But 502 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 4: the races themselves, you know, they're very competitive. 503 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: People are betting on them. 504 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 4: There are thousands of people in the grand stand on 505 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 4: the day of the races. You know, even in these 506 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 4: smaller places, people travel for you know, from all these 507 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 4: different cities to come go. 508 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: To the races. 509 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 4: So there were big events and they were competitive, and 510 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 4: even though they only lasted so long, and it's like 511 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 4: horse race was a super short event, but. 512 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: You know it was it was. 513 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 4: They were dramatic and you know, there was a lot 514 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 4: riding on not to be too on the nose riding 515 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,959 Speaker 4: on these races. The stakes are high. So yeah, I 516 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 4: there was a lot that people did to win, as 517 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 4: people do in any competitive sport, like the drugs that 518 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 4: they gave the horses, the drugs that they gave themselves, 519 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 4: you know, the ways they had to lose weight. They 520 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 4: figured out to lose weight in ways that you know 521 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 4: were questionable, some against the rules, to be able to 522 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 4: give themselves the best shot of winning on the day 523 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 4: of But then there was a lot that was obviously 524 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 4: up to chance and look and timing as well, but yeah, 525 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 4: all of that was a part of it. And the 526 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 4: thing that I was thinking about this because I'm not 527 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 4: too well versed in horse racing either, Like it does 528 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 4: seem like one of those things when you're like you're 529 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 4: in it and you have a history of it in 530 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 4: your family, then you know it is uh, you know, 531 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 4: it's something that can be passed down along generations and 532 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,239 Speaker 4: that you know, you can kind of inherit. But I 533 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 4: was thinking about how how betting heavy all of this, 534 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 4: this whole industry and sport is. It's like people are 535 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 4: betting on it, but also like as a trainer, as 536 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 4: a jockey, and all of the people who are involved 537 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 4: in horse racing, it's all very like you it's it's 538 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 4: a betting game. 539 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a whole lifestyle. 540 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 5: Like this whole thing would like when think about the 541 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 5: Kentucky Derby and the long tradition says in't it And 542 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,719 Speaker 5: it is like even the traditions are going is passed 543 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 5: down from generations and generations, like how you're stressed that 544 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 5: has and it's also like the levels and different levels 545 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 5: of it and I don't know, I know, maybe it's 546 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 5: around maybe the Derby time where I hear a lot 547 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 5: of conspiracies and a lot of like controversies because of 548 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 5: things like the weight and the type of diet and 549 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 5: how a day they get said, Like, I think there's 550 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 5: different like murder stories behind and like grand theft type 551 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 5: of things. You're like, my gosh, this is a whole 552 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 5: culture in itself. 553 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 4: Yeah it is. Yeah, it's really fascinating. But like, as 554 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 4: someone who isn't a betting person, like in general, I'm like, 555 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 4: I can't imagine being involved in something that seems so 556 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 4: volatile and turbulent and up to chance, and then on 557 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 4: top of that, a large mammal is involved, so it's 558 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 4: like something you have to take care of that's like 559 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 4: not a standard, you know, you have to you have 560 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 4: to learn everything that goes along with the care of 561 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 4: force is on top of all of that, and that 562 00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 4: seems like a lot of work. So definitely I ignowl and 563 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 4: recognize that in Sylvia's story. 564 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: Yes, and the people who are doing it right caring 565 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 2: for the horses, yes, yes, that is another element to this. 566 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,479 Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, Annie, because 567 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: obviously there's a lot of you know, kinds of malpractices 568 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 2: and things that are done that you know, I couldn't 569 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: tell you how that's changed over time, but I imagine there 570 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: have been more safeguards put in place over the years, 571 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 2: like from when Sylvia's first started working to the point 572 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 2: where she died. When it comes to like how care 573 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 2: is managed, how people who are participating in the events, 574 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 2: like the kinds of rules they have to face, when 575 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 2: it comes to how they're like enhancements and you know, drugs. 576 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 4: And caring for themselves. So yeah, definitely a big part 577 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 4: of this too. Whenever any animal is involved in something 578 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 4: that humans feel strongly about and want to make money 579 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 4: off of, there are going to be problems. Yeah, yes, yes, Well, 580 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 4: thank you again Eves for bringing this story to as 581 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 4: we always love having you on. Where can the good 582 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 4: listeners find you? 583 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: Y'all can find me? 584 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 4: Y'all can just go to my website, which is Eves 585 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 4: Jeffcote dot com, y V E S J E F 586 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 4: F C O A T dot com and you can 587 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 4: pretty much get to everything else from there. You can 588 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 4: sign up for my newsletter. You can also find me 589 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 4: on Instagram at not apologizing and on many many other 590 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 4: episodes of Sminty talking about the accomplishments of women in history. 591 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: Yes, go check all that out if you haven't already, listeners, 592 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 2: and maybe next time we talk to you Eve's you'll 593 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: have some courseback writings. 594 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 4: Gush about that. Don't hold me to it, but you 595 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 4: never know, ya. I'm trying to do something different every day. 596 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 4: I always get inspired by some whiff of something, so. 597 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 2: Yes, well, can't wait to hear what it is next 598 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 2: time you're on the meantime. Listeners would like to contact us, 599 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 2: you can or email us Hello at stuff I've Never 600 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 2: Told You dot com. We're also on Blue Sky at 601 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 2: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff 602 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 2: I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube and we 603 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 2: have a book you can get wherever you get your books. 604 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 2: Thanks as always, Cheris Some producer Christina, executive producer may and. 605 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 3: Or Contrbutter Joey, thank you and thanks to you for listening. 606 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 3: Stuff Will Never Told You the subroduction of iHeartRadio. 607 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check 608 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 2: out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or where you listen 609 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.