WEBVTT - The Sacred Indigenous Story of the Coca Leaf

0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.680
<v Speaker 1>It's that time to put on your jersey and wave

0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320
<v Speaker 1>your flag. Whoever you root for.

0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Why do I watch the work up?

0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:10.680
<v Speaker 3>That's like asking me why do I breath?

0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:12.880
<v Speaker 1>And it's beautiful.

0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.680
<v Speaker 2>The guys are young and cure and fat. It's not

0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.040
<v Speaker 2>just a game, it's your culture.

0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.200
<v Speaker 4>Imagin with my guy.

0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:21.960
<v Speaker 2>It's a connecting force.

0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:27.040
<v Speaker 1>From Futuro Studios. I'm Fernande Chavari and this is American Football,

0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:29.920
<v Speaker 1>a show about soccer culture in the US and it's

0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:34.360
<v Speaker 1>underdog roots. Listen to American Football on the iHeartRadio app,

0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:46.440
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Goku Kurama, I'm with my memma. Why an indigenous artist

0:00:56.720 --> 0:01:00.160
<v Speaker 2>of the morin Wuna people of the Colombian Amazon. We're

0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.200
<v Speaker 2>in his downtown Bogota apartment. It's his home, his art studio,

0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:09.480
<v Speaker 2>and his maloca, his community gathering place with Mambia. Said

0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:16.240
<v Speaker 2>this as he plays a percussion instrument to prepare. He

0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.880
<v Speaker 2>tells me he's going to mambiad to take mambae before

0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.400
<v Speaker 2>initiating our conversation about the coca leaf, the key ingredient

0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:31.160
<v Speaker 2>in mambay. The coca plant sprout small, bright green leaves

0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:37.200
<v Speaker 2>with delicate white flowers and bright ruby red berries. And

0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.480
<v Speaker 2>before we go any further, just to be clear, this

0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:45.399
<v Speaker 2>story is about that plant, not cacao or chocolate, and

0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:49.680
<v Speaker 2>not cocaine. While the coca leaf is used to make cocaine,

0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.360
<v Speaker 2>the plant itself is nothing like that highly addictive narcotic

0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.400
<v Speaker 2>that can cause major health harms. Instead, the coca leaf

0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.320
<v Speaker 2>is a mild natural stimulant that only contains one percent

0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:06.320
<v Speaker 2>or less of the cocaine alkaloid, a plant with pharmaceutical potential,

0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:12.480
<v Speaker 2>and the World Health Organization the WHO recently recognized that

0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.280
<v Speaker 2>the coca leaf does not pose a major public health risk,

0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.760
<v Speaker 2>So consuming it is not like taking a drug. It's

0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.000
<v Speaker 2>more like having a cup of strong coffee, suppressing pain

0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.760
<v Speaker 2>and fatigue. It's traditionally used to overcome sodoce or altitude sickness.

0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.840
<v Speaker 2>A Colombian drug policy researcher explained it to me like this,

0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Taking mambe or coca leaf is like riding a bike,

0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:44.760
<v Speaker 2>and doing cocaine is like being on an airplane. So

0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.920
<v Speaker 2>cocaine is a problem, the coca leaf itself is not.

0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.720
<v Speaker 2>This is precisely why I want to tell you the

0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.760
<v Speaker 2>lesser known story of the coca leaf, a plant that

0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.640
<v Speaker 2>indigenous people in South America have been called debating for

0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:08.280
<v Speaker 2>eight millennia. I was born here in Colombia and live

0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.080
<v Speaker 2>here now after spending most of my life in the US.

0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.320
<v Speaker 2>But I didn't know much about indigenous coca leaf traditions

0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.520
<v Speaker 2>like mambae until I moved back, and as I reported

0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.160
<v Speaker 2>this story on the coca leaf, I learned that there's

0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:25.920
<v Speaker 2>a whole international movement to destigmatize and decriminalize the plant.

0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Mambae is a green powder made with crushed and toasted

0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.000
<v Speaker 2>coca leaf mixed with the ash of the Jedumo tree,

0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:39.480
<v Speaker 2>an alkaline that activates the coca leaf's effects. For indigenous

0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:43.080
<v Speaker 2>groups from the Colombian Amazon, like I, Mima's mamby is

0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:48.400
<v Speaker 2>traditionally taken ritually to meditate, reflect and have important discussions.

0:03:52.400 --> 0:04:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Mambe sweetens the word. Ima tells me, I'm so he

0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:08.160
<v Speaker 2>is taking up his jar of mumbe. It's a green powder.

0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:10.960
<v Speaker 2>It looks a lot like macha. He's taken the spoon

0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.400
<v Speaker 2>and put the powder in his mouth, and he is

0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:18.120
<v Speaker 2>now doing the work to create the ball in the

0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:26.599
<v Speaker 2>side of his cheek. Respect outsiders, non indigenous folks have

0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.120
<v Speaker 2>to approach coca leaf traditions with a lot of respect,

0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.920
<v Speaker 2>he says, just as indigenous people already do. I think

0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.159
<v Speaker 2>it invites you to reflect, to think about your life,

0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:45.240
<v Speaker 2>he says, com.

0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:46.880
<v Speaker 5>To com.

0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:52.280
<v Speaker 2>About how you are, about how others are, about what

0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:53.880
<v Speaker 2>you need. He adds.

0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:01.560
<v Speaker 5>Sing up.

0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.560
<v Speaker 2>This is why Mema says that he wants to spread

0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.080
<v Speaker 2>the word that indigenous traditions like mambe are not inherently

0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:14.560
<v Speaker 2>badra cosa man. And that's vital because for over half

0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:20.320
<v Speaker 2>a century, outsiders international institutions have maligned the coca leaf tradition,

0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:26.680
<v Speaker 2>threatening its very existence. Today's story will unpack and untangle

0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the two, the ancestral coca leaf from the narcotic drug.

0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:40.800
<v Speaker 4>From futuro media. It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria Inosa today.

0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:52.080
<v Speaker 4>The coca leaf, It's history and its present. You may

0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.120
<v Speaker 4>only associate the coca leaf with cocaine and with the

0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:00.279
<v Speaker 4>decades long war on drugs declared by President Nixon way

0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:01.880
<v Speaker 4>back in nineteen seventy one.

0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:06.120
<v Speaker 6>It is necessary to wage a new all out offensive.

0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.920
<v Speaker 4>President Trump recently has been stoking the flames of that war.

0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.080
<v Speaker 6>President Trump has authorized yet another military strike against a

0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.560
<v Speaker 6>boat allegedly carrying drugs.

0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:22.480
<v Speaker 4>And now Colombian far right president elect Avelardo de Laespriella

0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:24.800
<v Speaker 4>plans to support that war.

0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:32.240
<v Speaker 7>The par La Mahedricinta Trinta Militariacca tola Formahabulencia.

0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.279
<v Speaker 4>De Laespriea, who Trump endorsed and who won by a

0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:42.000
<v Speaker 4>razor thin victory, has promised to eradicate coca crops in

0:06:42.120 --> 0:06:49.120
<v Speaker 4>Colombia with aerial fumigation, drones and artificial intelligence. But the

0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:54.920
<v Speaker 4>coca leaf in its natural form is not cocaine. In fact,

0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.120
<v Speaker 4>there are diverse coca leaf traditions all across South America,

0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.960
<v Speaker 4>and research suggests that the coca leaf may in fact

0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:07.479
<v Speaker 4>have therapeutic benefits, and over the last few years, an

0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:12.520
<v Speaker 4>international movement has been building to decriminalize the leaf and

0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.560
<v Speaker 4>to destigmatize it. Producer Desas on the Valley is going

0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.600
<v Speaker 4>to take the mic back for the rest of the story.

0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Growing up in the Colombian diaspora in the US, I

0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.720
<v Speaker 2>heard my fair share of cocaine related stereotypes and bad jokes.

0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.640
<v Speaker 2>A middle school social studies teacher in Florida used bullets

0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.400
<v Speaker 2>and cocaine as an emmonic device to teach Columbia's capital.

0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:44.560
<v Speaker 4>B is for bullets, and for Bogoka, C is for

0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:46.520
<v Speaker 4>cocaine and for Colombia.

0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:51.040
<v Speaker 2>It felt like she was basically saying, remember this place

0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.560
<v Speaker 2>and its people for this bad stuff. And look, I know.

0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Cocaine is a substance that has caused a lot of

0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.320
<v Speaker 2>violence and harm. It's been in the US since the

0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:04.120
<v Speaker 2>late eighteen hundreds, when it was used legally, both medicinally

0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.920
<v Speaker 2>and recreationally, until it was outlawed for recreational use in

0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.240
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fourteen. Even today, Columbia is the world's number one

0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.200
<v Speaker 2>exporter of cocaine, so it makes sense that the country

0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.280
<v Speaker 2>has had this bad rep The War on Drugs conflated

0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.480
<v Speaker 2>the coca leaf with the highly processed narcotic white powder,

0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:29.320
<v Speaker 2>intensifying the stigma. But when I moved back to Bogota,

0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:33.200
<v Speaker 2>I started to notice the coca leaf everywhere out in

0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:41.200
<v Speaker 2>the open street vendors, sea is on at concerts and

0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:47.480
<v Speaker 2>cultural events. Some non indigenous artists and academics in the

0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:51.080
<v Speaker 2>city have taken up the ritual of mumbao what Amemma

0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:56.280
<v Speaker 2>showed me earlier, taking mambay socially while having important discussions

0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.920
<v Speaker 2>or while doing something creative, and the more I observe

0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.080
<v Speaker 2>to the scene, the more I began to understand that

0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.800
<v Speaker 2>there was so much more going on. Folks I spoke

0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:10.640
<v Speaker 2>to while reporting this story told me as much. We

0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.080
<v Speaker 2>experienced coca as a world that is full of visions

0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.920
<v Speaker 2>and multiple cultures and ways of life. It's not just

0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:18.760
<v Speaker 2>a plant. It's a marvel.

0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.480
<v Speaker 8>But it's a secret too well kept. And I think

0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.000
<v Speaker 8>that's what's got to change.

0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:30.679
<v Speaker 2>What's with the exhibit. Natalia Chaparro is a Colombian rbilist

0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:32.199
<v Speaker 2>and a small business owner.

0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:34.880
<v Speaker 8>There's some of my products there on exhibition.

0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.920
<v Speaker 2>I meet her outside an exhibition about the coca leaf

0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:42.840
<v Speaker 2>at un LOSS, the University of the Andes, one of

0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Colombia's top research universities.

0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:46.720
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, so I.

0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.719
<v Speaker 2>Spot her in a bright patterned jumpsuit just as she's

0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:54.199
<v Speaker 2>packing up after an artisan market. All the vendors, including Natalia,

0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.640
<v Speaker 2>are selling coca leaf products. Nice and were you making

0:09:57.720 --> 0:09:58.440
<v Speaker 2>lattes here?

0:09:58.640 --> 0:09:58.880
<v Speaker 8>Yes?

0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.640
<v Speaker 1>For her, I'm so annoyed.

0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.240
<v Speaker 2>Natalia's products are an example of how everyday Colombians are

0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:07.520
<v Speaker 2>engaging with the coca leaf.

0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.480
<v Speaker 9>I may have a little bit of Mumbai latlefs, let

0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:12.560
<v Speaker 9>me see.

0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.720
<v Speaker 2>And Thankfully I haven't messed out completely on one of

0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.160
<v Speaker 2>her specialties, the Mumbe latte.

0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.280
<v Speaker 8>So just try it and let me know what you think.

0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:25.160
<v Speaker 2>It's a blend of mambe with cinnamon, cardamom, clove, and

0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:25.720
<v Speaker 2>oat milk.

0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.559
<v Speaker 9>Since we're in Colombia, I invite people, if you can

0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:34.959
<v Speaker 9>choose between machia and mumbe, choose mumbe because it connects you.

0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.400
<v Speaker 8>With your territory. When you relate to your territory.

0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:43.360
<v Speaker 9>You're more proud of the place that you're coming from.

0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.199
<v Speaker 2>Natalia tells me consuming mambe connects you to your land,

0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.160
<v Speaker 2>to your home, and that's thanks to the coca leaf.

0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:50.199
<v Speaker 8>Mumbe.

0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.400
<v Speaker 9>When you put a little bit in your mouth, you're

0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.520
<v Speaker 9>gonna feel your tongue a little bit numb.

0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.720
<v Speaker 2>That's because coca leaf has anal jessic effects.

0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.800
<v Speaker 8>It's telling us to be quiet, to listen.

0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.959
<v Speaker 2>Studies also suggest that the coca leaf may have antioxidant

0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.880
<v Speaker 2>and anti inflammatory properties that can help lower blood pressure.

0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.360
<v Speaker 9>If you feel certain pain in your muscles or if

0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.079
<v Speaker 9>you have mazed on premps.

0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.080
<v Speaker 2>A twenty twenty study from the University of the Andes

0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.840
<v Speaker 2>even shows that coca leaf extracts have major pharmaceutical potential

0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.640
<v Speaker 2>for treating two types of cancers, but according to one

0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.720
<v Speaker 2>of the authors of the study, tight regulations around the

0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.079
<v Speaker 2>coca leaf have made even researching the plant quite difficult.

0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.240
<v Speaker 2>After living abroad for years, Natalia started to visit Columbia more.

0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.800
<v Speaker 2>On one trip to the north in twenty eighteen.

0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:41.360
<v Speaker 8>Amids my guide.

0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:46.640
<v Speaker 9>He's a Kogi, an indigenous person, and he was the

0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:48.360
<v Speaker 9>first person who showed me coca.

0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.800
<v Speaker 2>From that instance, she felt connected to the plant, and

0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.679
<v Speaker 2>it only deepened when she moved back to Colombia and

0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:57.360
<v Speaker 2>got into herbalism.

0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:02.600
<v Speaker 8>And in Delaway is up but more appreciation.

0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Rooting her practice in the plant's indigenous origins. Natalia hopes

0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.400
<v Speaker 2>mainstream perspectives on the coca leaf will change.

0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:13.200
<v Speaker 8>At some point.

0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.880
<v Speaker 9>It will be ideal that people were really proud of coca,

0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:23.400
<v Speaker 9>like they're proud of sansa arepas cafe exactly.

0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.920
<v Speaker 2>And this isn't just a pipe dream. Governments and advocates

0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:31.080
<v Speaker 2>have taken real steps to destigmatize the leaf, bringing it

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:32.599
<v Speaker 2>back to its origins.

0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.240
<v Speaker 4>Coming up on Latino usay, what happens when the coca

0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:47.400
<v Speaker 4>leaf is reevaluated on one of the world's largest international stages.

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.520
<v Speaker 10>There was an opportunity for them to say, we are

0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 10>moving away from these conclusions that we took many decades ago.

0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.360
<v Speaker 4>And I look back on the roots of the misunderstood

0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:04.400
<v Speaker 4>coca leaf, from Sike tradition to illicit substance. Stay with us,

0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:18.200
<v Speaker 4>not Antonio Bardia, Mario Capistran.

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:35.680
<v Speaker 7>Yoss, the True Crime Extra Terrestress, Fantasma, Legenda's Legendarias, Toto Leando,

0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.640
<v Speaker 7>Legendarius Studies Panula, and on the Kiracucas podcasts.

0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.760
<v Speaker 4>Hey We're Back, Producer Tasha Sandoval has been telling us

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.679
<v Speaker 4>about the origins and uses of the coca leaf in Colombia.

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:56.920
<v Speaker 4>Let's get back to the story.

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.640
<v Speaker 2>To understand how the coca leaf became so mis understood,

0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.320
<v Speaker 2>we have to go back to its origins when it

0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:08.600
<v Speaker 2>was anything but bad. There are unique coca traditions in

0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:13.079
<v Speaker 2>different regions, from northern Argentina all the way to Costa Rica.

0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Mambe comes from the Colombian Amazon. Imema, the indigenous artist

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.440
<v Speaker 2>I spoke to at the top of the episode, is

0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:28.800
<v Speaker 2>from there. In the highlands, indigenous folks commonly chew dry

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 2>coca leaves hakujiko as it's known in Bolivia. In the

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Sierra Noual Santa Marta. In northern Colombia, there's the Popoto

0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 2>tradition where coca leaves are mixed in the mouth with

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 2>saliva and another alkaline powdered seashells. Indigenous groups have venerated

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.920
<v Speaker 2>the coca leaf not only as nutritious and therapeutic, but

0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 2>also as essential and sacred, and it's been passed down

0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:04.200
<v Speaker 2>from generation to generation. Then back in his boat at

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.760
<v Speaker 2>that apartment with his mouth full of mambe Amemma tells

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 2>me he remembers learning about its importance even as a child.

0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 2>We would go to the garden to learn about it

0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 2>for the wisdom to be transmitted, he says. But then

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>there's the coca leaf. On the international stage, the coca

0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 2>leaf is included in one of the strictest international narcotic

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:43.280
<v Speaker 2>drug schedules or United Nations Lingo for categories. It all

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 2>began with the UNS nineteen sixty one Convention, which put

0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the coca leaf in Schedule one. Each substance in the

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.200
<v Speaker 2>convention is categorized into schedules one to four.

0:15:55.440 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 10>Depending on their propensity to lead to joe dependence, but

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.640
<v Speaker 10>also their usefulness for medical and scientific purposes.

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.320
<v Speaker 2>That's Marie Nuge, head of Research and Communications at the

0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 2>International Drug Policy Consortium. The IDPC Schedule one that is

0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 2>for the most dangerous substances, so that includes heroin, that

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 2>includes cocaine, and it includes the coca leaf. So because

0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 2>the convention puts cocaine and coca leaf in the same schedule,

0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.080
<v Speaker 2>it's regulated in the same way.

0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.120
<v Speaker 10>In the nineteen fifties, there were basic key reports that

0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.960
<v Speaker 10>the plant was deeply harmful for health, that it was

0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 10>highly addictive.

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.360
<v Speaker 2>These reports were used as the base of the nineteen

0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 2>sixty one convention and Marisa's they're deeply tainted by colonialism

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and racism. For example, one of those reports states.

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:56.400
<v Speaker 6>In general, coca leaf chewers present emotional dullness or apathy

0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.640
<v Speaker 6>in difference, lack of will power and low capacity for attention.

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.640
<v Speaker 6>They are mistrustful, shy, unsociable, and undecided.

0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 2>In the decades since the nineteen sixties, there have been

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.879
<v Speaker 2>a few attempts at change. In the late two thousands,

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.600
<v Speaker 2>then Bolivian President Evo Morales, an indigenous coca grower himself,

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:29.320
<v Speaker 2>challenged the un putting a coca leaf in his mouth

0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:34.200
<v Speaker 2>he said, this is what coca chewing is. Coca is

0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Bolivia's national plant, protected as cultural heritage. Coca leaf chewing

0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 2>is ubiquitous there. But even that powerful scene of President

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Morales on the UN floor did not change the coca

0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 2>leaf's UN designation. So Bolivia withdrew from the convention altogether,

0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.080
<v Speaker 2>then rejoined a couple of years later, but with a

0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:57.920
<v Speaker 2>protection for traditional coca leaf chewing within the country. Since then,

0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.200
<v Speaker 2>there's been one more attempt. Here's Marie again.

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 10>At the end of twenty twenty three, Bolivia requested the

0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.960
<v Speaker 10>Wealth House Organization to conduct a critical review of the

0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.639
<v Speaker 10>coke leaf, and then later down the line, Columbia supported

0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:12.600
<v Speaker 10>the process.

0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:17.199
<v Speaker 2>The WHO spent two years researching the coca leaf in

0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.040
<v Speaker 2>an effort to determine whether or not the UN designated

0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.879
<v Speaker 2>the coca leaf correctly back in nineteen sixty one to

0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:29.199
<v Speaker 2>recommend whether the regulations around coca leaf should change. In

0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 2>December of last year, the WHO announced the results of

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.400
<v Speaker 2>this critical review. It recommended no.

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:42.040
<v Speaker 11>Change in the scheduling of the coke leaf, essentially closing

0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 11>the door on legal trade and greater scientific research for now.

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 11>And that is a complete missed opportunity to repair the

0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:56.120
<v Speaker 11>historical errors of the best. The critical review report suggests

0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:00.480
<v Speaker 11>that coca leaf can be easily converted into cocaine, increasing

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 11>the risk of more drug production, but Marie and other

0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.919
<v Speaker 11>experts take issue with this concept of ease.

0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:12.600
<v Speaker 10>It is almost impossible to extract the alkaloids from the cokati.

0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:17.520
<v Speaker 10>You would need hundreds of thousands of coca tea bags

0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:19.639
<v Speaker 10>to extract a quilo of cocaine.

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:24.679
<v Speaker 2>It would be logistically and economically inefficient, another expert told me.

0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Marie says descheduling the leaf would have enabled an international

0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 2>market for the coca leaf to develop, and this is

0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.679
<v Speaker 2>where international regulatory decisions meet everyday reality for people on

0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the ground. Right now, many coca farmers make their living

0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:52.240
<v Speaker 2>by cultivating coca for the cocaine trade. While some experts disagree,

0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Marie argues that if trading the coca leaf internationally had

0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 2>been legalized, those same farmers could have continued to cultivate

0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:04.040
<v Speaker 2>the cocaine for coca leaf, chewing, coca tea, mambe, or

0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:08.240
<v Speaker 2>other natural coca products instead, in turn providing.

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 11>The lifelihoods to thousands, hundreds of thousands of families.

0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.159
<v Speaker 2>The WHO report also emphasized that their conclusion does not

0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.680
<v Speaker 2>affect traditional use, since some Andean nations already have national

0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:25.240
<v Speaker 2>exemptions for this think Bolivia. But some experts say the

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.800
<v Speaker 2>coca leaf's international status keeps a country like Colombia from

0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:34.480
<v Speaker 2>creating clear national regulations, so the coca leaf is technically

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.880
<v Speaker 2>in a legal gray area. In Colombia, it is both

0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:43.760
<v Speaker 2>controlled globally and protected as a traditional cultural asset, and

0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.760
<v Speaker 2>the law has not caught up with reality. Like I

0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.560
<v Speaker 2>mentioned earlier, coca leaf use is pretty common, though it

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.520
<v Speaker 2>isn't officially regulated, and enforcement around it is largely inconsistent.

0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 2>For example, a recent case shows the compos x, legal,

0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 2>and social reality of the coca leaf. The Colombian State

0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Airlines Thattena kept an indigenous passenger from boarding a flight

0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:24.119
<v Speaker 2>in Putumajo in the Colombian Amazon because he was carrying mambe. Ultimately,

0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.040
<v Speaker 2>it is indigenous people like this Sathena passenger and like

0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Amema who have not been included in international decisions about

0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.600
<v Speaker 2>the coca leaf, from the nineteen sixty one UN Convention

0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.919
<v Speaker 2>to the latest WHO recommendation that once again failed to

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.840
<v Speaker 2>include a single indigenous person from the Andes and making

0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:48.280
<v Speaker 2>its final decision, but advocates, indigenous folks and those who

0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:52.120
<v Speaker 2>consider the coca leaf sacred are not giving up. They're

0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:55.080
<v Speaker 2>still fighting to change the narrative that many still have

0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:56.159
<v Speaker 2>about the plant.

0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:21.760
<v Speaker 4>We will be right back. Hey, we're back. Here's producer

0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:24.600
<v Speaker 4>Tasha Sandoval to wrap up our story about the present

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.000
<v Speaker 4>and the future of the coca leaf.

0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Iimma, the indigenous artist from earlier, told me he wishes

0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:34.520
<v Speaker 2>his people had been at the table for making big

0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.480
<v Speaker 2>decisions about the coca leaf, to share their ancestral knowledge.

0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:47.679
<v Speaker 5>San peguando los ueblos, some party. Detis justa not taking

0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:53.920
<v Speaker 5>a scenarios. No participant, no abli, no no mam bey,

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:59.600
<v Speaker 5>no no insane, no tras mean al gore real.

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.119
<v Speaker 2>If his people don't participate, don't speak, don't have the

0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:08.920
<v Speaker 2>chance to transmit something real dirac passive divise. Yeah, it's

0:23:08.920 --> 0:23:12.679
<v Speaker 2>going to be really tough, he tells me. Meanwhile, in

0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:16.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four, Immma was one of eight artists featured

0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 2>in Coco Worlds, an independent curatorial project and an exhibit

0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:24.600
<v Speaker 2>at the United Nations Headquarters. That's right, the same institution

0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.560
<v Speaker 2>that contributed to the stigmatization of the coca leaf around

0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:31.520
<v Speaker 2>the world. So, on one hand, the WHO was in

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:33.760
<v Speaker 2>the middle of a critical review of the coca leaf,

0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:37.000
<v Speaker 2>one that upheld the status quo to keep the coca

0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.199
<v Speaker 2>leaf in one of the UN's strictest drug control schedules.

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 2>But on the other hand, the UN headquarters hosted an

0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:47.560
<v Speaker 2>exhibit that four grounded artwork made with and about the

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:53.720
<v Speaker 2>coca leaf, stopping till pass. Back in his apartment after

0:23:53.800 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Elmambeo Amima shows me what he's working Onpalito.

0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:05.000
<v Speaker 5>Yes, yes, look ki plasmobo mask.

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:10.399
<v Speaker 2>He uses a mixture of sticks, seeds, and actual coca

0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:14.119
<v Speaker 2>leaves and blends it into his oil paint Several of

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:18.480
<v Speaker 2>his paintings large colorful canvases hang on the walls of

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:19.120
<v Speaker 2>his apartment.

0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 5>The Bengal Pintando plas Mando pretorca iss com.

0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:38.600
<v Speaker 2>His work is deeply rooted in resistance through time and

0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:42.800
<v Speaker 2>through historical conflicts. He says the fact that his art

0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:46.359
<v Speaker 2>and its message reached the u N headquarters was a

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:50.760
<v Speaker 2>symbolic win. But given that the coca leafs UN designation

0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 2>remains unchanged, there's still a lot of room for destigmatization.

0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Amemma asked me hypothetically when coco was banned in the

0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:19.760
<v Speaker 2>first place. Quando and who banned it? Ages miss they did,

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:24.680
<v Speaker 2>he says, answering his own question. They as an outsiders

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:28.880
<v Speaker 2>like those at the u N. It's outsiders, those who

0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:32.240
<v Speaker 2>do not hold first hand wisdom about the leaf, who've

0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:37.680
<v Speaker 2>determined its fate. One of my Mamma's elders used to tell.

0:25:37.520 --> 0:25:44.160
<v Speaker 5>Him, what do you come bomb adams?

0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Look at how they make bombs and weapons, and that's

0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:54.480
<v Speaker 2>not prohibited.

0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:57.040
<v Speaker 5>Pro propio.

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Or no. But this, this which is ours, which comes

0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:07.520
<v Speaker 2>from the creator, isn't allowed.

0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:14.240
<v Speaker 5>Most I'm beingished.

0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Indigenous knowledge, wisdom and science needs to be accepted to immasas.

0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:26.480
<v Speaker 5>I can connects, I can connect tars colt connects or hynarious.

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:29.760
<v Speaker 2>We have to connect with nature. We have to open

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:30.400
<v Speaker 2>our minds.

0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:34.479
<v Speaker 5>I cachar for la manos couch presidents.

0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:38.760
<v Speaker 2>At the very least listen to us, he insists. Remember

0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:46.720
<v Speaker 2>we have to sweeten the word. He reminds us, I.

0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:49.720
<v Speaker 5>Can trust me, t I can sign and I.

0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Connect hilarious, and we have to share the coca leaves.

0:26:57.600 --> 0:26:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Indigenous origins.

0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:21.000
<v Speaker 3>He nah oh jonah dina to your name, Oh baula HeLa,

0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:37.760
<v Speaker 3>Oh right, Dijona, Oh Dinah, Jonah Vacuna, hang On Oh Right, Jona,

0:27:39.840 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 3>Dina Yona.

0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:54.480
<v Speaker 4>This episode was produced by Tasha San Novel. It was

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:59.080
<v Speaker 4>edited by Nicole Rothwell, Fernanda Chavari and Penny le Mirez,

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:03.640
<v Speaker 4>fact Chuckie by Roxana Aguire. It was mixed by Stefane

0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:08.480
<v Speaker 4>Lebo and Julia Caruso. Nancy Trujillo is our production manager.

0:28:08.960 --> 0:28:13.679
<v Speaker 4>The Latino USA team also includes Rinaldo Leans, Junior, Luis Luna,

0:28:14.040 --> 0:28:19.720
<v Speaker 4>Rorima Marquez, Urieta Martinelli and Adriana Rodriguez. Fernande Echavari is

0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:23.480
<v Speaker 4>our managing editor. Penile Ramirez and I are executive producers.

0:28:23.920 --> 0:28:27.359
<v Speaker 4>I'm your host Mariao Josan. Latino USA is part of

0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:31.440
<v Speaker 4>Ihart Michael Dura Podcast Network. Executive producers that I Heart

0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:34.520
<v Speaker 4>are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana. Join us again on

0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:36.879
<v Speaker 4>our next episode. In the meantime, I'll see you on

0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:39.720
<v Speaker 4>all of our social media and don't forget, dear listener,

0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:43.000
<v Speaker 4>to join futuro BLUs. You'll get to listen to everything

0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:45.840
<v Speaker 4>ad free, and by joining you'll be supporting the kind

0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:49.720
<v Speaker 4>of reporting that makes episodes like this one possible. So

0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:52.360
<v Speaker 4>gerrasias a stella proxima.

0:28:52.120 --> 0:29:00.120
<v Speaker 2>Choo Latino USA is made possible in part by the

0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of

0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 2>social change worldwide the Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:16.920
<v Speaker 2>and possibilities. More at hsfoundation dot org and the TAU

0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Foundation