WEBVTT - How Willpower Works 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.520 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from How Stuff Works 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:11.640 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.720 Clarkin sitting across from me putting on his Love Your Mama. 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:20.960 Umlit ball, what what Philip Flavors? That is almond? Actually 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.959 is yummy. Let's look at that plug right out of 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.439 the gate. This is Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Hello. Those 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.920 are nice lips you got there, man. Wow, they're now 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:34.839 moistified like moist bologney. Yep. Well, the two of us 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:36.800 get together as we are right now, and you have 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.559 yourself Stuff you should know the podcast. Nope, this is 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.560 the podcast. It ain't going nowhere. It ain't gonna change. 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.440 Don't worry, folks. Yeah, same as it ever was. If 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:47.800 you love the TV show, we thank you. If you 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.199 don't like it, hang out with us here online. Yeah uh, 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.640 not to be confused with our online presence, our website, 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.520 our new website, the home of Chuck Josh Stuff you 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.440 should Know dot com. This is pretty cool. I don't 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.639 mind saying words about this because we got a new 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.080 website and it's like, it's awesome. It's got video and 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.240 and blogs and photos and it's like all sorts of 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.399 cool stuff. It's us. It's our house on the on 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.959 the web. It's really cool. I mean stuff. You should 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.679 know dot com it's our website, mind blowing, five years 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:19.880 in the making. Yeah. So uh. And then not to 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.880 be confused with our Twitter handle, s y sk podcast. 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.400 Not to be confused with our Facebook page, Facebook, dot 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.280 com slash stuff. You should know, boy your front load 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:33.200 this one. Yeah, alright, all that's out of the way, right. Um, So, Chuck, 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.360 you're doing good, You're feeling well. I'm not feeling great, 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.800 but you know, yeah, you're ready to be done. No, 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.200 I'm ready to talk about willpower though, because it is 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.600 a topic that I struggle with, as do most people. 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:47.280 I think, like you struggle with the topic, or you 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.840 struggle with willpower. I think everybody struggles with willpower. Oh yeah, well, 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.800 as a matter of fact, um, I think you're absolutely right. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.360 There is a very famous guy named Plato, famous Greek 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:02.880 philosopher Plato. Plato, Plato, yes not Plato, right, um, And 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:10.320 Plato decided well suggested that the entire human experience, that 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:17.680 the sum of human existence could be basically nailed down 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.440 with just this. You have a higher self and a 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:27.760 lower self and your purpose for living is to overcome 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.360 the usually more powerful urges of the lower self in 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:36.680 order to fulfill the goals of the higher self. I 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.079 am down without it makes uttering complete sense. I don't 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.040 know about the reason for living, but the struggle man 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.720 struggle or at least okay, Yeah, like that's if you're born. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.679 You're going to face that, but you're going to face 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.120 it in varying degrees because, as we found, willpower, which 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.880 is what you use to get over your lower urges 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.440 and pursue your higher goals. Um, it comes in differing 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.960 amounts for differing people, different people. Yeah, and it. And 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.800 Robert Lamb wrote the original article from house Stuff Works 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.480 from Stuff to Blow your Mind, and he points out 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:15.000 that we're at odds with our own, uh nature, as 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.800 we have evolved here on the planet because you know, 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.040 we craved sugary sweet things because sugar gave us lots 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.799 of energy back in the day, and back in the 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.560 day they didn't have little debby cakes within hands reach 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.359 at all times. So we're sort of at odds with ourselves. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.200 And he points out sexually as well, um, we evolved 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.000 to spread the seed and procreate as much as possible 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.920 to ensure the survival of the species. And um, nowadays 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.000 you can't really do that stuff, or if you do, 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:50.120 you're a flander or a jerk or your spreading disease 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.600 and your public health nuisance. Yeah. So, um, we're at 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.280 odds with ourselves, with our very existence. Yeah, and not 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.480 only internally, but you make the point, um as a 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.080 side as well. I mean, society and evolution tussle. So 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.640 you can make the case that society represents our higher 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:09.080 self and you know, are what we are, basic instincts 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:13.400 that we've evolved to are are lower selves. So that's 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.760 what's going on. And it's will power, will power that 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:21.320 will get us over the bumps that come along in 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.520 life inevitably. Yeah. And if I think most people relate 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.320 will power to things like eating or going to the gym, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:32.920 or indulging in uh uh sexual proclivities and things like that, 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.479 But I think it's broader than that. In general. I 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.440 think it's the will to, like Plato said, to strive too, 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:44.599 I guess, do the right thing. Yeah, by yourself, by others, 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.760 by society at large. Right. And I guess also, um, 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.800 how often you come up against that? How often you 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.120 have to exercise willpower because you you just hit it 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.640 on the head. Will Power is the act of making 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.040 a decision. You're deciding to do something or not to 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.680 do something. Um, how often you do that it does 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.080 depend on how you define the world around you, Like, 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.720 are these things you know? Are you surrounded by temptations 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.280 that you have to ward off all the time and 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.800 you're paying attention to it and they're always closing in? Uh? 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.599 If you like that, then you're going to exercise your 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.080 willpower a lot. If you don't see the world as temptations, 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.039 you give into them all the time, you're not going 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.279 to If you look at the world as something that 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.240 you can handle, you're probably not gonna have to exercise 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.040 your willpower too much then either. But it's all they're all. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.760 Those are three different ways of of living and they 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.720 all are I guess described by willpower and how you 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.240 use it. Yeah, that's a good point. Um. Robert h 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.840 makes a point that has backed up somewhat by science, 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.320 actually completely by science. The and he he puts in 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.760 terms of a video game, which makes sense that if 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.040 you were a video game and you have a willpower meter, 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:02.960 that that willpower meter is replenished and depleted on a daily, 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.800 probably hourly basis. And the more you uh use your 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:09.400 willpower and say, you know what, I'm not going to 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.560 have that little debby cake, Your little willpower meter goes 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:16.280 down and it depletes itself, so you're not going to 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:20.240 have as much willpower maybe for the next decision. Right. 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:24.880 It's really interesting. Yeah, that's um pretty new. Our understanding 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.200 of willpower like that is very new. The first guy 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:28.880 to really kind of put it out like that was 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:34.360 Freud Um and he basically said, uh, you we have 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.839 this thing called willpower. We have an ego. Yeah, that's 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:42.800 that's what the Freudians associate with willpowers, the ego, and 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.919 your ego is this finite thing. It has a finite 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.760 energy reserve. It uses energy, and therefore it can be sapped. 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.400 And then Freud fell out of fashion, and um, everybody 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.520 just kind of stopped looking at willpower that way. And 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.880 uh it wasn't until in Florida State University psychologist named 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:06.680 Roy uh Baumeister the bomb he uh he figured out 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:12.360 through this test using chocolate and radishes. I believe that, um, you, 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:18.440 if you are staving off temptation using willpower, you actually 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.960 do terribly on like another test of willpower. Yeah, they 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:28.280 used persistence tests UM basically puzzles that you have to 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:29.800 just keep at it and keep at it's not something 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.120 you could complete immediately, And offered some people chocolate chip 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.320 cookies and other chocolate treats of their liking and offered 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:42.640 other people radishes instead, which is not a fair fight, right, 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.040 I mean, he really stacked the deck like maybe a radish, 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.560 a shaved radish in a salad or something. But if 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.360 all you're looking at is a plate of radish, then yeah, 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.240 I would take the cookie. So what he found out though, 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.960 was the people who ate the radishes had more trouble 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.360 completing the test. I guess because I guess the ideas 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.200 they're using up all their willpower to not eat the cookie, 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.280 so they don't have time for the test the persistence. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.160 And there was also a another kind of follow up 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.800 study a few years after that by um the the 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.800 University of Iowa professor with the greatest name of all 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:20.280 of the faculty there, Baba shiv Um and uh Dr 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:25.760 shiv Um, had a uh basically tested willpower by saying 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.840 this group is going to remember a two digit number, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.040 and this group is gonna remember a seven digit number 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.960 and then we're gonna test their willpower um by tempting 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.720 them with chocolate cake and uh. Dr Shiv found that 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.400 there was the people who were using their working memory 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.560 their cognitive capacity to remember the seven digit number had 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.040 a harder time resisting. So it basically proves that we 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.560 use our working memory to resist temptation. And I guess 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.319 it's something like reminding yourself, you know, at the at 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.640 the forefront of your mind, not to do something, you know, 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:03.840 until the temptation pasts. Who knows, Yeah, maybe I had 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.040 that cookie yesterday, so man, I can't eat it today. 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.920 Or we use our working memory to remind ourselves of 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.520 our long term goals in the face of a short 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.680 term reward. Well, that's one of the big keys I think. Yeah, 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.600 and uh, that's something Robert hits on, which is I 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.000 want that cookie now, and I know bikini seasons coming up, 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.760 and you've seen me in a bikini. Josh, it's not pretty. 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.400 I will never get that out of my memory, working 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:33.240 memory or other one that bikini. And but that's sort 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.559 of what we're at odds with is the short term 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:42.440 I think humans as a group tend to enjoy the 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.959 short short term pleasures and if you truly learn to 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.240 conquer that in in uh lieu of long term gain, 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:51.880 that's when you're like you're winning, is Charlie Sheen would say, 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.720 right exactly, Although Charlie Sheen is not exactly one who's 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.319 known to exercise the willpower. No, you know, that was 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.000 a really ad person to tap for that, But well 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.120 I think that's the opposite he was. He thought winning 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:09.120 was the short term game. Yeah, I guess yeah, yeah, 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.000 people like when you guys record this, but it's been 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.040 I think today might be the very day where you 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.920 could get away with it. So it was perfect by 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.440 the way. Um, so from all these tests, like when 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:28.440 Baumeister um put his study ego depletion colon is the 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.360 active self a limited resource, it just basically kicked off 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.360 the slew of follow up studies from Dr Shiv and others, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.480 and um. One of the things that they found was 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.520 that you can kind of watch people exercise willpower on 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.599 the old Wonder machine. Yeah yeah, um. Using m r 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.760 s they put people in and had them think about, 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.760 I guess a suite or a health food and decide 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.960 between them and cal Tech. Yeah, And they found that 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:03.120 the venture. Amedial prefrontal cortex lights up when you're making 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.360 that decision when you're considering it, which made sense. They 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.800 I think they kind of expected that, but they were 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:13.280 also surprised to find that the Dorso lateral prefrontal cortex um, 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.280 which is located a little further back, Um, that lit 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.040 up as well. And they think that that has lit 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.080 up for the people who made the good decision only 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.600 thank you. And they think that that's maybe part of 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.840 your that's part of the working memory where you're like, no, 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:32.560 I can't eat that, because that's tapping into that higher 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:38.719 self goal pursuit. That's the Dorso lateral prefrontal cortex. Right, 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:41.679 you did a nice job there, by the way, thanks, 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.520 uh so. The bomber also went on to say that, 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.800 um he could. He compares the willpower, your own willpower 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.440 to a muscle or something like a muscle, and you 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.720 can deplete it, Like he said, if you overwork your muscles, 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.720 you're just gonna deplete your muscles and be worn out 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.720 at the end of the day. Or you can exercise 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.240 that muscle in a in a healthy way and make 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.600 it stronger in the long term. Right, Um, do you 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.360 do this after reading this, a third realized that I 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.800 actually kind of exercised willpower all the time. What you 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.400 I think you especially do so like, for example, I 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.280 have a mail key that I used to go get 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.160 the mail, right and we keep it in our car, 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.200 and I had to go to the car and get 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:55.600 the mail key and then go get the mail. And 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.480 it was cold out yesterday, and then on the way 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.640 back I could have just take in the mail key 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.760 inside with me and taking it back to the car, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.360 and the next time I went to the car again 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.960 it was very cold. But instead I walked up a 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.600 flight of stairs, put the mail key into the car, 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.120 and then went back home. So you're you're you made 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.400 that decision and you struggled with it, even if in 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.439 a minor way. Yes, I did it specifically because there 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.760 was no reason whatsoever for me to do that rationally, 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:25.920 and as far as common sense went, there was no 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.520 there's no purpose to it. But by doing it, I 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.240 basically just exercised my willpower. It was something I didn't 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.400 really want to do, but it wasn't a big deal, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:40.240 but it was I could like doing that accumulates. Yeah, 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.520 I think I think you and I are really different 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.599 in that way. I see you as someone who actively 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.320 works that muscle a lot on a daily basis, and 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.439 I don't enough and not that I just have no willpower, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.439 but I don't give it, give decisions like that enough consideration. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.360 Does that make sense completely? I was like, yeah, I'll 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.360 just go upstairs and the key on the coffee table, 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:05.800 which a sane person she kind of has that that thought. 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.559 I think that puts you in the same camp. Yeah, 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.719 but that doesn't ensure that I'm making good decisions for 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:12.880 my life, you know. You know, but I mean I 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.800 don't think you're making bad ones. But it's good to 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.520 self reflect, you know, Yeah, I do kind of It's 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.840 kind of fun. You know, it's like a game. Yeah, 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.160 I want to you know, It's it's like how Ramrod 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:25.960 Street can I stay in? You know? That's what I'm 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:30.640 building towards. Uh so um. Another thing Robert points out 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.760 from the science side of things is as far as 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.080 giving into the short term in favor of the long term, 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.640 is glucose plays a big part in that. And I 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.080 think they found that a quick um shot of sugar, 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.120 I don't think a whole lot can sometimes stave off 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.280 or build up that willpower. Reserve in the term. Yeah, 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.160 it's like, uh, you you were talking about how we 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.080 have like a UM willpower bar, and every time we 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.200 were this temptation is depleted a little more and more. 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.800 They found that a shot of glucose replenishes the willpower bar. 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.080 So is that in lieu of like, hey boy, I 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.760 really want that cupcake, but let me have the juice 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.880 box instead. That's the irony of it, is giving into 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:13.560 that cupcake may help you exercise your willpower with other 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.920 stuff later further on. Can't that weird? But yeah, I 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.560 mean if you had something healthier, that would be the 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.120 better choice. But the point is is like any kind 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.440 of shot of glucos has been shown to UM to 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.600 to re up your your willpower. And this was very 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.800 much poop pooed at first, this idea, UM, I think Baumeister, 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.080 This is really great article by John Tierney in New 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.760 York Times magazine. It's from UM the August before last. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.360 It's called do You Suffer from Decision Fatigue? Our buddy 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:46.600 Chad loves this proselytized this article. Remember, okay, this is 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.240 the one, so I strongly recommend everybody to read. It's 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.800 a good one. But um and and it it talks 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.240 about Baumeister like thinking that you know, glucose has something 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.080 to do with this um and it was poop pooed 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.760 at first, because everybody knows the brain uses the same 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.920 amount of energy pretty much all day long. So that 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.280 didn't make any sense. Like if you're if you're ego 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.720 depleted and you're you're suffering from some sort of willpower fatigue, 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:12.600 but your brain still using the same amount of energy, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.400 those two don't jibe. Again with the m r I. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.920 What they found was somebody suffering from ego depletion from 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.200 willpower fatigue who took a shot of glue coast or 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:29.320 whatever UM. Their brains lit up in areas that had 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.960 to do with exercising will power. So while your brain 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:33.960 was using the same amount of energy, it was using 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.000 them in different places when your willpower was fatigued. And 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.400 that gluecoast basically was like spinach to popeye for that 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.760 part of your brain that's charged with exercising willpower. Isn't 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.080 that Yeah? So what do you carry on a packet 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:52.920 sugar with you at all times? Come on sugar right now? Um? Also, uh, 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.880 the in that same article they talk about this uh, 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.920 this kind of landmark study of an Israeli parole board, 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.439 and um, they found that you if you were a 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.840 parole e and you came to them after it had 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:10.720 been a while since a break or lunch or breakfast, 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.280 your chances of being paroled dropped by like fifty or 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.160 sixty oh if the parole board had not had breakfast, 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.840 yes or no. If they if you came to them 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.600 like right after things got started, after breakfast or after lunch, 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.600 your chances of being paroled were like fifty to fifty 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:32.679 six greater than people who came to them for identical 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.320 crimes like a couple hours later. I'm sure that makes 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.600 the criminals of the world feel pretty great. Yeah, exactly. 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.080 So arbitrary. And they what they found is it's not laziness. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.600 It's not like physical fatigue where like you can tell 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.800 you're tired. What our brains do is they employ the 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.919 strategy where you you are, you become risk averse, like 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:55.000 you don't want to make a decision, so you say, 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:56.560 you know what, I'm just gonna put this off. You're 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:57.960 gonna go back to jail. I'm not going to grant 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.600 your parole because that's risky behavior. To let you back 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.240 out in the world, and I'm just I've made too 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.439 many decisions today. But you're not thinking this. You just 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.359 say parole to nine and you have no idea why. 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.119 It just makes sense to you at the time. But 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.840 if you had had some gluecoast that same instance, you 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.080 may you may be like, well, yeah, I think you're 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.000 you're ready to come back out in society. That reminds 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:24.080 me of the band Rush, Yes, that we talked about before. 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.639 I remember this from when I was a teenager. You 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.680 know the lyric um Man, what song is it? If 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.119 you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice? 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.880 Fretty will Oh, yeah, that's from that song, of course. 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:39.200 I think on the original album jacket it says if 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.679 you choose not to decide, you cannot have made a choice. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:43.960 Is the right? Yeah? My brother and I used to 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.399 laugh that. I think Neil Perd actually wrote a lot 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.320 of the lyrics back then that Getty Lee dislike, you know, 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.760 edged it out with events. But it's the complete opposite meanings. 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.919 So it's interesting that at some point Rush, I guess 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.760 that maybe a band argument or something. I'm glad Getty 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:00.920 Lee won. Yeah, you you have made a choice. No, 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.719 you cannot have made a choice. Just shut up, play drums. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.320 Your voice is weird. I remember hearing that the first time. 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.800 I was like, oh man, oh yeah, blew me away? 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.960 Yeah yeah, free will. I can't believe I didn't remember 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:13.520 the name, Like, I can't think of the name of 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.400 this song, but it's about free will? Was it red 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:22.440 bar Chetta? All right? Oh? I didn't really fully get 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:29.359 the the Stanford UH psychologist Walton and Dweck, and that 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.800 is Dweck. It sounds like saying direct wrong. Um. I 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.560 didn't fully get that that They they said that people 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:42.399 UH who have will found willpower fatigue tend to slack 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.920 off when they felt their resolve wavering, but then people 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:50.439 who felt their resolve was limitless pressed on. I like that. 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.159 Just I don't get the point there. It seems like 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.119 a no brainer. Yeah, I think I think it is. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:57.679 You may just be looking too deeply. It was like 0:19:57.680 --> 0:19:59.920 what I was talking about earlier at the beginning, where 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.760 like depending on how you see the world, like do 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.160 you see the world is like, like you have willpower, 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.000 so you can overcome any temptation, You're going to last longer. 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.719 On tests of will power than somebody who is like, um, 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.320 I'm feeling kind of weak today, you know, and then 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.960 you're just gonna give in. Okay, So it is pretty simple. Yeah, 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:19.880 all right, I thought it was a dummy. Not only 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.760 is it simple, I managed to make it more complex 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.320 and talk about it at length. Uh. They do know 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:31.200 that people, generally there is some genetic component involved, Like 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.520 if your parents are super self disciplined, then you were 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:36.840 more likely to turn out that way, right. I found 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:38.959 that to be true from friends of mine whose parents 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.560 were like super self discipline and their kids kind of 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:43.440 turned out that way too. Yeah, but I wonder, And 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.160 Robert makes a point in the article like is it 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:50.440 genetic or epigenetic? Yeah, I don't know, probably both. Yeah, 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.040 I would think my guests, we just chose not to decide. 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:57.399 We cannot have made a choice. Uh. And then the 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:01.720 old marshmallow experiment this uh stand for not the prison experiment, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.280 but the marshmallow experiment from the nineteen sixties, very famous 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:10.160 one where they placed these uh tortured these kids basically 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:12.879 by placing a marshmallow in front of them and saying, 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.879 if you hold off on eating that marshmallow in fifteen minutes, 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.280 you will have to, And of course not many of 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:21.840 the kids could hold out, but they found that the 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.760 ones who did hold out for the second marshmallow went 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.720 on in life to greater successes, at least if you 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.600 count s a T scores as a measure of success, 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.919 two points higher than the ones who chowed down on 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.440 the marshmallow, and the ones who ate the marshmallow later 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:43.080 on had struggles with relationships and stress and uh attention. Yeah, 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:45.199 so I wonder if that has even do with like 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:47.399 you know, O c D. I wonder as well, I 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.000 wonder how much um of our modern problems are really 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:55.040 just crises of willpower? Yeah, I wonder. Um there was 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:58.160 a follow up to that sixties experiment. There's been a bunch, 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:00.440 but there was one in at the University of Rochester 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:05.720 that was carried out last year that um found we 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.960 are more willing to exercise willpower if we think that 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:11.080 what we're holding out for is actually going to happen, 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:14.919 you know. Uh, And they did that by this is hilarious. 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:17.720 It's funny. He studies with kids are always they're so 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:21.399 cruel and funny. I mean, not the really truly cruel 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.720 ones that like any psychological study that has the kids 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.159 almost invariably has some cruel aspect to it, and this 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:32.160 one was no, uh, was no exception. Basically, uh, they said, 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:36.480 here's the control group, here's here's the experimental group, and 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.960 the control group, we want to give you some extra 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:42.200 art supplies. Let us go get them. And they came 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.080 back with some extra art supplies. The experimental group. They said, hey, 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:48.200 we're gonna get you some more art supplies. We'll be 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:49.960 right back. And they came back. They're like, we don't 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:53.080 have any more art supplies. We know you were really excited, 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:55.359