WEBVTT - Bill Coore - Part 2 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:04.760 Welcome back to the Friday Podcast in part two of 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:07.760 the Bill Coore interview. If you missed Part one, check 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.479 it out on our website, iTunes or Stitcher. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.760 Thank you to all the listeners who submitted questions. 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:15.760 While I couldn't get through all of them, I tried 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:18.480 to touch on them a vast majority throughout the conversation. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.480 If you're new to the podcast, be sure to subscribe 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.960 to our channel on iTunes and Stitcher. Now here's part 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.240 two of our conversation with Bill Coore. 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.120 I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.519 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:33.839 And when I find my ball. 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.960 In a Frida Egg Friday egg, the dreaded Friday Friday, 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.440 Friday Frida Friday Bride egg. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.199 Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course game. 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:13.319 And uh so to switch gears another side of yours 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.640 when and this is a question from one of our listeners, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.920 cars on the course or for of course he wanted. 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:27.480 To asked when he originally finished Warren a Notre Dame. 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:29.240 Of course there was no. 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.760 Part of the scorecards, and what was the thinking behind that? 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.640 Well, any that that truly is like you know it 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:47.000 just that came about out of sort of a humorous 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:51.000 comment that I made. We were just finishing the course, 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.520 and of that there Brian Godfrey, who at the time 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.840 and for quite a number of years after the course opened, 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:04.360 was the golfer afterview, and Brian need to comment that 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:09.560 the then golf coach another day questioned how the second 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:14.880 home could be a part four and the tenth hole 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:17.600 could be a part five when the second home was 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.120 longer than the tenth in terms of actual yard. Each 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.480 other score right down if you'd played there, you know, 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.639 the second hold flat. He goes out there and it 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.480 was built to be a long for big opening in front. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.600 Tenth home goes kind of cascaded down that hills, got 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:37.840 the creek that winds in front of it. There much 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:44.320 more spear green. So anyway, but Brian was saying, this 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.920 is you know, they said, this has come up more 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:48.760 than just from the golf coach and we're getting ready 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.040 to open, we're going to apprentice score cards and we're 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:55.160 good all this stuff. He said, what do you say 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.079 to that? And I went through and why the second 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.760 home and then I saw a flu bumpily just said, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:06.560 I said well, brun and does it really matter. I mean, 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.880 it basically is, you're going to play the whole regardless 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:12.520 of what the par is, and you're gonna put down 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.400 a number after you played it, you know, So what 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.880 difference is it? I said, for that matter, you just 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.480 put no par on the scorecard and no one will 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:30.320 ever know Ryan he laughed. And the next thing I know, 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.800 they decide, well, let's try this. We'll put it in 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.360 no par on the scorecard. We'll needless to say. You 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.080 can imagine uproar that creating, so that all came out 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.920 of it. Just I wasn't really being serious about don't 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:50.600 put any par on the score card. But I've seen scorecards, 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.120 you know, and no parum So that's what. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:04:00.320 My whole things. Power doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, it's just 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.400 a Marde guy. So it's a stake a life for fast. 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.000 Well, it's like when we did all that work at 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.880 Planners Number two a few years ago, when Mike Davis 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:13.400 at USGA. You know, Mike summed it up perfectly because 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.880 there was this discussion going on about changing you know, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:22.159 prior to the twenty fourteen opens there, the fourth hole 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.520 had been a part five and the fifth hole was 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.800 a part four, probably the hardest part four in the world. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:35.120 And Mike davis idea was, let's make the fourth home 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.880 a really long four because the entrance to the green 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.880 is such so much more receptive from real all four, 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.080 and the green on number five is so severe. Let's 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:51.039 build a new t for five way back and play 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.880 five as a part five. Well, of course this went 0:04:55.920 --> 0:05:00.000 against things that had happened there in previous US Opens. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.960 It was quite an internal controversy, but Mike sended up perfectly, 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.960 he said, he said, I promise you, he said, all 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.760 the players in the Chims you'd look at this at nine. Yes, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.039 these two holes together, four or five. It didn't matters five, four, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.120 four or five in their county. If they walk off 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.279 here with nine on their scorecard for the two holes, 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:25.120 they're happy. They're going on. He said, So, however you 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.640 want to think of it, it's note and he was 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:29.800 absolutely right. 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:35.720 And one two Riviera fourteen fifteen at sand Hill, I mean, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.560 they're all yeah. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.760 And you know if you look back, people say, well 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.760 they work that way for the you know, the previous 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:53.239 opens they're number two. Well, they when Ross completely redid 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:57.240 the course for the thirty six PGA Championship. They were 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:02.520 both par fives. So you know, it's against it all 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.159 relative according to time and place. 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:11.159 So outside of this old town of timers that you've gotten. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:15.520 To do restorations of what site or what of course 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.000 that you've restored has been in that course that like, 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.919 the longer you spend, the greater appreciation you have for it. 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:33.160 M hmm. I don't think there is work, Mandy, you know. 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:38.719 I mean, it's not only have we been extremely fortunate 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:46.040 with regard to sites to work with for new courses, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.839 We've we've been very fortunate to work in some really 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:57.240 neat old courses. And I'm not going to sit here 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.599 and start to give you a rundown out of those 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.680 courses I think of it sounds horribly so serving. But 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:10.920 we've worked as a truly truly special golf courses in 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:15.600 this country. And it's much like earlier conversation when you 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:20.040 go to one of them, Wow, this is unbelievable, it's fantastic, 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:24.120 and you and then you go to another one you oh, wow, 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.760 that's equally of it. And so what you try to do, 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:28.720 or at least I think what we try to do, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.360 is appreciate each one for what it is and try 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.200 to understand each one for what it is and what 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:36.160 it was meant to be. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.080 So is that how you approached the restoration work? Is 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:47.080 is you know, not just putting everything back, but discovering 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:47.960 the attention. 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:53.160 Of Absolutely you're trying to take yourself out of the picture, 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.200 and you're trying to do the work in such a 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.240 way that if the person who are people who did 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:04.280 it in the beginning came back, you know, they might 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.560 just not in approval. I mean when we worked at 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.880 number two, of course in Pinners, there was a huge change, 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:17.560 huge change both visually, you know, the course played and 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.320 the whole band I could do Toobe Carb all of 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:27.280 us who were working out there with this kid, we 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.200 just hope that mister Ross, if he came back, you know, 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.920 not that he's gonna plaud, but at least he would 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.760 be in approval that this is this is as close 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.960 as we know how to get to what our sense 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:46.760 is he must have intended, and you know the same 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.880 thing in other places then we worked. You don't go 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.000 there to leave your signature. You go there to try 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.959 to recapture something that was as. 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.360 The restoration. I'm excited to see more and more. 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:08.000 Come is because there's so many places that if you 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.200 could get back to that original field, you know, from 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.280 where it's gone, it would it make golf a lot 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:16.439 better a lot of places. 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.600 Yeah, well, it can be extremely difficult, it can be 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:24.000 extremely political. It's you know, yeah, I mean just since 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.520 we're talking about Pioneers, but you think about wouldn't he 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:31.880 Benda first went there, Don Pageant, who's the president of Pioneers, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.040 and Bob Dedman, the owner. They just said, we would 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.280 like you to restore this golf course. And I remember 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.440 the first question when you had to restore to what 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.319 this thing is changing its characters so much through all 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:49.040 these decades. Well, restored to what which partners number two 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.040 do you don't want to go back to? And in 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.840 the case of Pioneers, if it was possible to do 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:02.439 to restore to the most perceived to be pioneers number two, 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:08.000 and it's very vast, there are some places you simply 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:12.840 could not do that anymore. And not not just because 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.640 maybe they've been now there are thousands of one thousands 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.320 of trees, but sometimes there are houses there. They're different, 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:24.400 there's a different infrastructure, there's different things that have changed. 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.760 You know that it's just simply not possible to put 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:29.120 it back. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.680 We talked to earlier a little bit about the pro 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.200 game and how gets very you know, hit it straight, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:41.240 hit it close and narrow. And this year they'll have 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.240 the Buyer and Nelson, the trinity for us. 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.679 What do you I mean, what are you expecting from 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.720 from the tournament? I mean it's going to be a 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.720 lot different than the typical tour. 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:57.200 Of course for the most part. 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.719 But you know, do you think do you think the 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.840 feedback from players can be positive? 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:08.000 I think it will be extremely mixed. I think it's 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.960 going to be all the way across the spectacum. I 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.520 think there will be some players who will very quickly 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:19.440 appreciate it and like it. I think there will be 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.640 some who very quickly will very much not like it. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:31.200 And it's just different, and it's different. It's different for Texas, 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:36.120 it's different for the tour. It's a different presentation. And 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:43.160 anything anytime something is different, there's you know, it's certainly 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:48.880 open to a vast array of interpretation. Is whether that 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:54.920 difference is good or not not good. So all we 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.120 can say is we've done our best to present it 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:02.120 in a way that we think would be interesting, you know, 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.720 for those players, the world's best players, as well as 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.280 the members and the people who play there. We try 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.240 to create a golf course. It gives a lot of 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.280 options for them to make their own decisions of what's 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:19.440 going to happen. There's trendy forrest me. I think the 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:23.400 very longest players on tour can go there. It's not 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.200 like we've said you can't hit your driver as far 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:31.040 as you will, you know, by the same token, I 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.719 think we believe that given the firm conditions that we 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:38.920 hope will appear to the term with the turf, that 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.040 not that there are any short players on a tour anymore, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.600 but it could be a situation very likely that the 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.760 longest player in the field could go there and think 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.040 I can go in here, and the shortest player in 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:59.199 the field could go I can win here and everything cleaned. 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:05.880 So it's going to allow a lot of choices to 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.120 be made by players as to how they want to play, 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.480 how far down the fairways, and the fairways are wide 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:17.440 by the tour standards are extremely wide, and they can 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.760 choose to play it. I really wish. I don't think 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.160 you will hear sometimes you hear comments like well, it's 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.160 whoever puts bass that week, you know where it's a 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.280 hunter's golf course. I don't think you'll hear that. I 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.920 think it's uh, it's going to be more a matter 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:40.720 of that there are times there that to be successful 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:46.520 you may have to play a different approach to the 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:51.240 greens than they might normally play. It's not it's not 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.520 a point A to B. The c god really interesting. 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.839 So many people aren't based around statistics now, I'm sure, 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.960 and the Strokes game method is like, oh, if you're 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.760 in Pharaoh this far away, you know you've gained this 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:12.320 man if I think playing very good architectural, of course, 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.679 is anywhere any good architecture. 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.079 You can be in the middles fairly and be one 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:18.360 of the. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.680 Worst places, and that to me is going to be 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:23.120 the really riveting things. 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.080 That the right play might be. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.280 To hit it way right with an iron off the 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:32.040 tee versus hitting a driver up to forty yards, and 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.360 that from forty yards you. 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.280 Might have the worst spot. Evolve them. 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:41.720 Yeah, it will be very interesting to see Andy and 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.120 Casey Cook the superintendent there, who's got the terf the 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.600 old one thats Oyser, which is the closest thing to 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.000 the ziser in terms of the cancil, I mean closest 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.520 thing to fescue in terms of playing characteristics, how the 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.240 ball chases once it's on the ground, and your ability 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.600 to put from both the greens. This this is always 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.000 is the closest thing to fisk you I have seen 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.560 and Casey's got it really keen. And if it's if 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.520 the weather is good, wind blows a little, hopefully not 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.120 too much because it's totally exposed, but wind blows a 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.960 little and and it's dry, and again that's a very 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:25.400 big hit because May in Dallas, Texas is historically I 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.960 think the web just a horrible amount of for weather. 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:30.320 So we'll see, guys. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.560 But it's like I think there was a couple of 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.280 years ago and they taped like the whole course of flood. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.560 So they've heard it at four and a three. 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.520 Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's it's a tough time the 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:48.360 year there so but it's the weather's cooperative and uh, 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.440 I think it will be. It'll be very interesting to see, 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.360 but it's it's you're gonna get a lot of mixed reviews. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.040 We by no means say everybody's gonna go to, oh, 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.040 this is fabulous, you love this. You know it's it's 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:09.560 gonna take some time. I mean it's it's the fifth hole. 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:13.760 There to a little short part for it goes slightly uphill. 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.440 There's a big bunker out there on the right short 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.720 of the green, probably twenty five yards so short of 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.920 the green, and then the green is tiny, tiny, little 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:31.080 little so the old steep green sitting there, no bunkers 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.840 around it, but it's just persed way up, crowned off 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:38.880 severely like a pineherds green, shortcut grass in front of it, 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:43.680 right of it, behind it, left of it. And you know, 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:45.880 I'm sure people would go, look, it was gonna be 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.600 a piece of cake for these guys because they could 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.000 drive the screen. It may be three hundred and five 0:16:51.120 --> 0:17:00.600 yards maybe, And but the keyt that hole is big 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:07.600 bunker is hopefully positioned just properly to the point that 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.840 all the players on tour I think can hit over 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:17.120 the thing is hitting over it is not the primary 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.520 objective for those guys. It's hitting over it, but not 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.719 going over the green. So to get a ball for 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.080 them to just weigh over one over there over the 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.200 bunker easy. Now they're going to go over the green. 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.480 And if you go over the green, I don't care 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.720 who you are, Houdini is going to have a hard 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.720 time getting up and down and maybe getting up and down. 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:44.280 And you know in three from back over the green, 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:48.119 it's just all mode, fairways tight. But now you're trying 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.400 to get the ball up on this tiny little hubcap 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.560 thing up there, and if you're not careful, you'll have 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.600 a John Day experience are up there and back up 0:17:55.640 --> 0:18:00.760 there and back and exactly. And so the key process 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:05.400 would be how do I get over the bunker barrely 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.760 just barely over. So I hit that ground, it's just over. 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.720 It carries me up onto the green, not over. And 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.560 so that's the type stuff. And we'll see that kind 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:22.399 of different presentation, not just that, but presentations throughout the 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.920 course that those are the kind of decisions they'll have 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.399 to make. And I think I think some will embrace that, 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.439 and some perhaps want me though I was. I was 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:39.920 there actually just passed Tuesday through Golf Rider outing, one 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.840 of the Texas golf writers was told me about he 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:48.600 had spoken to Jordan Smith not long ago and said, Jordan, 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.120 you know, Jordan Blaze out there is basicallycomes home course 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.720 and his teacher, Cameron Korbick his teachers out there, so 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.360 you might want to battle Jordan's you know, he knows 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.760 of course better than anybody. But fast thing Jordan was 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.920 was talking to him and saying, you know, the course 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.040 just gives you a lot offs. You just have to 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.320 make a lot of decisions. A lot of times those 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:18.760 decisions go really well, and sometimes they don't. And according 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.880 to the golf writer, Speed told him, he said, I've 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.280 played at you. I've shot six under bar on this course. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.240 He said, I've also shot six over you know, So 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.119 to us, see, that's interesting golf when one of the 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:36.920 world's best players says, I have to think about where 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.200 I'm you know, maybe I'm a hen driver on all them. 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:44.120 Maybe I'm a hen driver on some, maybe not. It's 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.480 a process of them learning how they want to go 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.840 about the negotiating of course. And then of course, if 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:53.040 you have different wind. 0:19:52.760 --> 0:20:00.680 Conditions, hold different right, right, So that's in the game, 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.000 don't I don't know, but. 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:07.159 It'll it'll be. 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:11.000 It's I'm saying, it's dark my super Bowl. It's gonna 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:16.919 be the most excited about twenty eighteen. Let's get to 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.960 this that a bunch of listener questions and we'll get 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.440 a couple of you on and take up too much 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:27.199 of your time. Jason Wade wants to know what do 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:31.320 you wish to average golfer understood better about architecture. 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:42.959 Probably how the ground influences play and how the the 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:48.639 the detail work that goes into the creation of the 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.159 golf courses is there to help you in many ways 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:55.639 as opposed now it's you know, the perception is there 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.120 architects go way out course and they create all these 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.720 hazards to try to to challenge you. Well, that's true 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.840 an extent, because without challenge God is interesting. Much like 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.359 you said earlier, boy playing tennis straight down the middle 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:16.080 of the court. But really interesting courses allow you to succeed. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.919 They give you a challenge and they present a situation, 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:24.280 but they allow you to succeed. And oftentimes it's the 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.160 way the tilt of the ground is, or the way 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:32.800 the green sits against a certain slope, or his angles. 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.359 It's often the small things. It's we all want to 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:40.960 notice the giant features, the big magnificent earthworks and that 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:44.600 sort of thing, But the detail is the things I 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.400 think we notice so much, and it is so important. 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:55.879 It's you know, a contour that's six eight inches high 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.800 in a green, in a spine that runs down the 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.760 green can dictate like all the way back to the team, 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.840 if the whole presents itself in a certain way, allowing 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.640 you to play to the right of the fairway, left 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.360 of the fairway, or whatever. If you can tell where 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.120 the pen is though it's on the right of end 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.280 of the spine, it's on the left, and or man, 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:18.280 I've got to play over here over there, And those 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.440 are the type things we find so interesting. 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:26.520 I think spines are so cool too, because good players 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:30.800 miss right and left, they don't miss numbers. 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:32.520 Yeah, that's true. 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.560 So a spine all of a sudden to the right 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.679 and left of the pen, that you could hit a 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:40.800 shot to fifteen feet and. 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.159 Had a really topple upun there are so many holes 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:49.760 around the world that you look at that the play 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:55.720 is dictated by a single feature. Generally, most are so 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.320 often at a green, fourth greene that the old course 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.639 has sat in a little knob, a little man that 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:09.960 sits up short the fourth green, that particularly for good players, 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:15.080 it's just simply hit a teacher and we'll have to 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.640 deal with that thing, you know, and it's just those 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.680 it's that type of thing, you know. And I think 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.760 the better the player is the more they're influenced by 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:28.800 small things rather than largely because it can be the 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:32.240 biggest bunker in the world. Most good players don't worry 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.880 about hit over, you know, or if there's enough room 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.919 to decide, they can avoid it. But it's it's just 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.920 smaller things. It's one of the one of the things 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:45.480 I've learned so much from Ben through all the years 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:48.159 is how little things do affect the best players in 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:51.800 the world. You know, a certain tilt of the ground 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:56.920 in combination with a certain wind angle can make things 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.800 easier or more complicated, more difficult for a good player. 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:04.960 So it's it's often the little things that is important 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:08.040 as the big and I think I think so often 0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:11.640 people look at golf courses and focus on the big 0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:14.280 picture and sometimes miss the detail. 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:19.359 Yeah, so's the little things that it's a It's like 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:21.760 what we talked about before about. 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:25.639 You know, the difference between that, you know, the what 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:26.760 people were trying to. 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:30.480 Men have died with, but they missed a little details 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:31.760 inside of it. 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:39.119 Exactly. Pete was a master at making small elements work 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:43.760 and influence play, and sometimes those will get lost I 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:45.520 think in the picture that was presumed. 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:53.040 So we'll go to Joe Estes with a little bit 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:59.240 of history. Is a w song has great grandson. He h, 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.359 you wanted to ask, you've. 0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:05.760 Built so many great courses, what are you still learning 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:09.080 at your most recent projects? 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:16.720 And that you didn't know for you know? So it's 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:20.800 first of all, do I'd have to say my partner, 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:25.560 Ben Crenshaw is such a huge fan to your great grandfather. 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.479 If you has been, you know what his favorite architects are. 0:25:30.960 --> 0:25:32.680 I mean, Perry Maxim is going to be up there 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:35.280 because Ben grew up on Perry Maxwell golf course too. 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:37.040 So he and I are both going to be an 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:39.960 agree with that. But he will almost immediately a day 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:44.320 of Ittilian and so and which is from my perspective, 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:51.720 completely understandable and probably from a perspective of building golf 0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:58.080 courses that can strategically and interestingly challenge the very best 0:25:58.160 --> 0:26:01.000 players in the world even today, hey of courses that 0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:03.880 were built many decades ago, I would have to think 0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:09.119 he would be at the absolute top. Is of course 0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:16.680 direct school. Oh, it's incredible, It's just it's just incredible. 0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:22.720 But I guess to your question, you know, it just 0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:25.920 seemed like there was a cliche or something once said 0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:29.320 that when you when you quit learning your dad or 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.960 something to that effect. I don't know, but yeah, I 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:35.919 think each one of our each one of our projects, 0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:40.480 I think we learned from what we've done, and and 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:44.760