WEBVTT - Your Experiences With Aphantasia 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:05.960 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stop 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:14.440 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.680 My name is Robert lamp and I'm Joe mcformick. Before 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.720 we roll into this episode, just a few quick reminders. 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:20.680 First of all, Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.239 that's the mothership. That's where you need to go for 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.239 all of our podcast episodes, videos, blog post length out 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.800 there social media accounts such as Facebook and Twitter. We 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:29.760 are blow the Mind on both of those. You also 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.920 find us on Instagram and tumbler and always if you 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.519 want an easy way to help the podcast, the easiest 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:37.360 way to go about that is to just rate and 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.840 review us on whatever platform you used to listen to us, iTunes, 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.000 Stitch or whatever it is. Give us a rating and 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.360 review and that will help the show. All right, Joe, 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.200 what do we have today for the listening audience? Well, 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.120 today is going to be a follow up episode to 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:54.120 one we did pretty recently on the fascinating subject of 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.160 a fantasia, the blindness of the mind's Eye. So in 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.960 that last episode, if you haven't listened to it yet, 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:02.960 you should go back and check that one out first. 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.760 That's where we relay all the groundwork. We explained what 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.319 a fantasia is, how how it was discovered, and um 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.039 and what's the state of research today on this interesting condition. 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.560 But brief summary, Robert, what is a fantasia? Well, we're 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.200 essentially talking about blindness of the mind's I We're talking 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:24.440 about the inability to varying degrees to form mental imagery 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.360 in the mind. So this is affecting the way that 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.480 you remember things, the way that you daydream about the future, 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.600 the way you dream even Uh, it really plays into 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.960 your sensory experience of reality. Yeah. So in the last episode, 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.720 we tried to give you a visual picture to put 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.280 yourself in a scenario, tell a little story, and then 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.880 see how well can you picture all of the things 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.720 in this imaginary scenario. And it turns out that some 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.800 people can't picture these things at all. Because I think 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:51.920 we were rolling out something. You're standing on a beach, 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:58.160 pale deathly men and black coats and hats circuiting after you. No, wait, 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.200 that was a dark city. Uh that's a good one too, 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.720 but yeah, we would We laid out this whole mental 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.200 imagery experience just to sort of test everyone. Then we 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.120 talked about some other sort of questionnaires that have been 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.000 rolled out as well to sort of self evaluate your 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.720 own place on the spectrum here. Yeah, and that is 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.320 definitely one thing that came out in our discussion last time, 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:19.480 is that there really does seem to be a spectrum 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:23.359 of the vividness of mental imagery. Some people are what 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.119 we might call hyper fantasiacts or they have hyper fantasia. 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.200 They when they make a mental picture in their mind, 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.840 they don't just have a vague, kind of generic mental picture. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:38.280 They have a very detailed, incredibly clear mental picture. So 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.520 if they picture a beach, they might not just see 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.760 sand and water in the sky and maybe some seagulls, 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.160 but they'll see, uh, seven umbrellas, and these are the 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.480 colors on the umbrellas, and there are fourteen people on 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:52.680 their beach. And then at the other end we have 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.360 the main subject of that episode that the people with 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.079 a fantasia, meaning they can't picture a beach at all, 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.840 there's no way for them to see it unless they're 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.320 looking at it. Uh. And then of course there's this 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.440 whole middle spectrum. More people might have varying degrees of 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.639 mental imagery, like you can sort of see a generic 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.040 beach but not a lot of detail, or you can 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:16.079 see a lot of detail up and down the scale. Robert, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.040 I think we we both took the test and fell 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.520 somewhere in the middle and sort of typical levels of 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.480 mental imagery. Yeah, indeed, and and that's one of the 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.280 reasons that we're doing this episode. One of the reasons 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:29.359 we reached out to everybody because in talking about this, uh, 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:31.440 you know, we're coming from the standpoint of sort of 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:36.280 mid level mental visionaries, So we definitely wanted to get 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.440 the perspective from individuals that are, you know, on either 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.760 end of the spectrum. And it turns out lots of 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:46.400 you out there have really interesting experiences with a fantasia 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.240 or hyper fantasia, and lots of you got in touch 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.560 with us, So we thought we'd take this episode to 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.520 read some of the great responses that you sent back 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.520 on this subject. So, I mean, it makes sense to 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.080 write because what it was like two percent and we 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.640 don't do not have any firm numbers on this, but 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.200 the estimate is a little over two percent of the 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.800 population has h you know, notable degrees of a fantasia. Yeah, 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.240 this was that two thousand nine study we talked about 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.520 in the last episode. I believe it was by Fall. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.200 The psychologist Bill Fall found that two points something per 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.800 cent of the people in this survey seemed to have 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:25.200 extremely low or no mental imagery. Alright, so we're gonna 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.800 just jump into it now. We're gonna set up. We're 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.080 gonna set a time or for ourselves and say an hour. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.320 It's about it as long as we tend to like 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:35.159 to go with the with the podcast episodes, So we're 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:36.760 just gonna see how many of them we can get 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:38.960 out in an hour. If we don't get to yours, 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.359 I apologize, but I guarantee you we read all of 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.239 them and we greatly appreciate the feedback. Okay, This first 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.240 message is from our listener Koti so Kyoti says, Hey, 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.760 so I saw you guys on periscope last week. It 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.159 was my first time tuning in and what did you 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.360 guys happen to start discussing? But this condition I recently 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.680 learned about called a fantasia. Y'all were trying to ask 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.800 if people with a fantasia dreamed pictures. The answer is, well, 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.040 I don't know about others, but I certainly do. One 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.400 of the questions you asked in your podcast was about hallucinations. 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.520 That's where we ask, you know, is it possible to 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.039 hallucinate if you can't see things that aren't in front 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.040 of your eyes? And Koti says, I also suffer from 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.480 occasional hallucinations, which are very brief but very clear, maybe 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.279 like twice a month, not very often. I'm able to 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.200 easily tell the difference between them and reality because they 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:30.560 usually have nothing to do with what I'm trying to 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.520 do at the moment. I've been like this my whole life, 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.279 and I just thought I wasn't good at remembering things. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.080 I couldn't visualize things, but I would just know the information. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.920 I'm very good with remembering numbers, though, and very good 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.360 at recognizing patterns. I often wonder if it's because my 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.320 head isn't cluttered up with pictures all the time. I 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.719 wonder if there's anything, because, like when it comes to 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.680 getting around town, I'm I'm the opposite. Like I have 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.000 no idea what the name of that street that I 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.440 travel every day, but I have it in my head 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.599 and I didn't drive to it. No problem. You're picturing 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:03.919 the guy you saw who looked funny on the sidewalk 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.039 the last time yeah, I remember him the name of 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.280 the street, number of the street idea. Yeah, so, Kyote continues, 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.240 Which isn't to say I don't see pictures at all, 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.279 but they were ephemeral at best and very vague. So 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.560 it sounds like maybe if if Kyota isn't completely a 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.680 fantastic it might might be very low on the visualization 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:28.400 vividness spectrum. Uh so, Kyote continues. I've known that people 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.920 don't process information the way I do for a while, 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.839 but for the but the first time I really understood 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.200 was when my boyfriend was trying to teach me how 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.200 to meditate. I hadn't thought about meditation, and there's a 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.839 lot of mental imagery and meditation or their candy. Yeah yeah, continuing, 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.840 he asked me to visualize the color green and focus 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.680 on it, and I tried. I really did. I was 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.160 able to come up with a vague green in my head, 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.720 but it quickly slipped away. I had a lot more 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.120 luck with yoga because I was able to focus in 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.880 on the music or my instructors voice. I don't visualize 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.160 my body when I'm doing yoga, but I am aware 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.040 of where everything is when my eyes are closed. It's 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.080 not because This is a point that I specifically brought 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.240 up yoga. Yeah, continuing, it's not like a superpower or anything. 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.400 I just know. And there's actually a scientific word for this. 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.800 You might be aware of it. It's called appropriate reception. Yes, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:21.960 we have. There's an older episode of stuff to bling 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.200 your mind about this. Yeah, so appropriate exception is the 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.600 reason why, Hey, to try a quick experiment, as long 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:28.640 as you're not driving a car or something, close your 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.440 eyes and then put your hands together. You can do 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:33.400 it even though you can't see where your hands are. 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.840 And this is because your sense of appropriate reception. It's 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.480 this natural sense to be able to know where your 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.640 different body parts are and their movement and relationship to 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:43.880 one another, even without looking at them, right, I mean, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.320 it's it's how we move our bodies around in this world. Yeah, 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.040 you like, you don't always have to be looking at 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.880 your feet in order to step. Pretty useful. Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.239 But anyway, continuing with the mail, I'm also an artist 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.640 and a writer. This is interesting to me because some 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:00.840 of these people with a fantasy year reported that they 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.520 can't draw at all, not even close, or they had 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:09.800 difficulty trying to ride out imagine scenarios etcetera. Especially visual descriptions. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.840 But continuing with the letter art is hard because I 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.200 don't ever have a clear picture of what I want 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.360 to draw. I just keep doodling until I've created something 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.120 I like. Writing is easier, the words just come to me. 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.640 I feel like I can tap more into how something 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.920 makes you feel, rather than worrying about how something looks. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.480 The biggest downside is not being able to picture faces. 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.720 I can sometimes get an image or of a place 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.200 or a scene sometimes, but I've never been able to 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.600 picture faces. It makes me sad because I've just recently 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.679 married my boyfriend and people ask me about my husband, 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.400 I have to give them a general description or dig 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.320 out my pictures to show them. I mean, I know him, 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.920 he has a beard, dark skin, beautiful brown eyes, but 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.320 I can't see it in my head. I know my 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.760 family and friends, but I can't see them either. So 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.640 to end on a glum note, anyhow, thanks for doing 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.040 the podcast. It made me feel not so alone to 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.120 know there are other people like this. I think I'll 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.560 check out those forums you mentioned. We mentioned some a 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.240 Fantasia forums in the last episode. PS Okay, I do 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:16.040 have one bone to pick with you in both periscope 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.160 and the podcast. You are very careful to state that 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.520 these people quote claimed to have a fantasia. Almost any 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.520 time it was brought up and people about people having it, 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.640 the word claimed was also present. What gives is it? 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.920 Because there's no way to prove if someone has it, 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.640 or because of a lack of understanding? Am I looking 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.920 too far into this? Just wondering? I can't imagine anyone 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:40.080 pretending to have a fantasia? I mean, what's the point? 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.040 I hope you guys have a great day and thanks 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.800 for reading. Well, I can address the why we say claimed. 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.040 That's just talking about how you would deal with first 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.280 person experience in science, like there there's no way to 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:55.240 know what somebody else's first person experience really is, so 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.640 you just talk about what they claim to experience. That's 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:00.760 the only way you can deal that. It's not because 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.520 we're being skeptical and saying all these people are lying 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.600 about what they experience. It's just trying to reflect the 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.600 reality of the data we have to work with. We 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.320 can't be in their heads. We can only talk about 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.400 what they claim to experience. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, thanks for 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.280 that great email, Coach, that was really interesting to read. 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.400 So Robert, let's have another one. All right. This is 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:23.840 one from Facebook. This is a far shorter response, but 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.120 it has a nugget in here that I think it's 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.840 very tantalizing. Marine wrote in and said, I think I 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.160 have this. I can't visualize things either. Visualization is a 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.600 strategy that I am supposed to teach kids who have 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.880 trouble with comprehension, but I am not very good at this, 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.720 and now I think it is because I have a fantasia. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.319 Mind blown this Uh, this really fascinated me because it 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:50.400 it underlines this idea that okay, we have all we're 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.320 only talking about you know, two percent of individuals probably 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.000 that have a fantasia. So the vast majority of individuals 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:01.960 that are contributing to curriculums, to teaching strategies, they are 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.600 individuals that have more or less than average mental visualization 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.040 uh system in place. Yeah, so then what's happening when 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:12.720 you know, when you have individuals that are being taught 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.320 or individuals that are teachers who are having to engage 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.640 with the same curriculum and use the thing curriculum to teach. Yeah, 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:20.800 this this makes me think about all kinds of different 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.960 things about the way our society is structured based on 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:30.199 the mistaken assumption that most people have roughly equivalent powers 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.280 of mental imagery. Like. Another way this comes across is 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.560 in the justice system and the use of like the 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.640 use of eyewitness testimony in the justice system. I feel like, 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.640 hopefully people know that there's a spectrum of vividness of 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:46.720 mental imagery and visual recall, but I bet there are 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.920 a lot of cases where there is There are serious 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:52.240 problems in the justice system and the use of eye 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:56.400 witness testimony because people are just assuming that everyone out 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.640 there has just as good visual recall and mental imagery 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.240 as they do, and that's not necessarily the case. Yeah. 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.920 This on top of of course all the inherent memory 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.520 problems with eyewitness testimony, as well as the ability to 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.640 manipulate those memories if you're the one asking the questions. 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.920 So yeah, we can add a plantation into that, into 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.240 that whole cauldron of problems as well. Man, I just 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:22.120 never read a single thing about eyewitness testimony that makes 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.880 me more trustworthy of Every single piece of science or 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.160 data I come across just undermines it more. Yeah, I mean, 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.160 it just seems like the label should be you know, used, 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.560 but used with caution and used with the understanding that 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.080 this is not this is not video camera HD footage. 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.200 This is this is a flawed memory that is susceptible 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.880 to manipulation, alteration, and uh, it might not be that 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.800 even reliable to begin with. Yeah, yet another case for 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.600 augmenting our bodies with video cameras where our eyes are, 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.160 so we can just press record on everything that's important. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.839 That's that's all I'm arguing for. Joe. Do you want 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.760 to do another one, Robert, Yeah, let me grab one here, 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.800 all right. This one is from Emily. She says a 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.160 longtime listener, first time caller, Smiley face. I just listened 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.679 to your podcast on a fantasia. It caught my ear 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.960 because a friend had recently posted about this phenomenon of Facebook. 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.640 She doesn't see mental images and was doing a survey 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.760 of her friends. I don't see mental images either. Until 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.040 I listened to your podcast. I didn't realize people actually 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.720 see things. I thought when people talk about picturing things 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.640 in their mind, it was just a figure of speech. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.800 I didn't realize there was actually a picture. Mind equals 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.960 blown Emily, this is uh, yeah, this is interest. The 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:34.640 the we I think we touched a little bit on 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.040 this in the original episode, like people hearing about this 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.920 and just not really understanding what what people were talking about. Yeah, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.240 this is something we've heard, so we heard it in 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.200 the original episode when we were doing research. And like, 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.320 for example, that essay by Blake Ross about what it's 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.000 like to discover a fantasia where he reports that he 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.600 didn't realize other people could see mental images. Uh. And 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.800 we heard this from a bunch of listeners. A lot 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.480 of you who got in touch with us said you 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.200 had the exact same experience. You just had no idea 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.760 this was even a thing other people could do. But 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.360 another way this parallels the Blake Ross I say is 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.440 that he also did the same thing where when he 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.079 found out about it, he went online and started surveying 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:12.800 all his friends and you know, trying to get in 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.400 touch with them, saying, wait a minute, you see something 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.840 that's not there, like you can see it, uh, and 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.520 and quizzing all the people he knew. And it turns 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.920 out he got in touch with some people he knew 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.960 who were also experiencing a fantasia. And it looks like 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.480 Emily's friend did as well. In Emily um, I have 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.200 a friend whose coworker has this, and I found this interesting. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.400 Apparently he describes his memory of people like when when 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.200 he thinks of someone, it's like pulling up a Wikipedia 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.600 page about that person, which is an interesting way to 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:47.280 describe it. There's a lot of That's one of the 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.080 things that's so tantalizing about this this topic is that 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:55.240 you you ultimately have the each side trying to relate 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.720 with their experience their memory experiences, like in each dealing 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.880 with a slightly different system. All right, now here's another one. 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.640 This coming comes to us from Olaf in Sweden. Says, Hi, 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:08.360 my name is Olaf and I'm a twenty nine year 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.840 old man from Sweden. When I was in my early twenties, 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.240 me and a friend played the would you rather game 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.360 and came to the question would you rather be blind 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.120 or deaf? I said blind in a second, and my 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.640 friend asked me why because he thought it was strange, 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.920 and I said, well, I store all of my information 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.760 vocally in my head, so my side is useless in 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.920 that way. Then I thought, if you're born deaf and 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.480 never heard a spoken word in your life in which 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.280 language do you think? My friend replied you don't you 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.000 picture it. That blew my mind because I had never 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.200 had pictures in my mind before. I had a constant 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:46.040 thought process in which I have an ongoing inner conversation 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.920 with myself where I sort out and store information. Like 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.400 if someone tells me, remember that time last summer when 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:57.440 we had watermelons for dinner, certainly remember that time, Robert. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.200 I first think about watermelons, what they are a fruit, 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.400 then the color green and how they taste. And after 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.840 that I can remind myself of conversations I remember bound 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.480 to the taste of watermelons. Then based on the lingo 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.760 of the conversation I now repeat in my head, I 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.040 can determine who I was speaking with at the time. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.360 Then I remember which time, uh they are talking about. 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.520 So if I have to recall something, I always ask 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.760 what were we talking about? Rather than was it sunny? 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:29.840 Thanks for the great podcast, and keep up the great work, 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.560 old Off, Thanks for that message. All Off that so 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.400 I don't recall ever having watermelons from for dinner, but 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.200 I can actually relate here because I sometimes do this. 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.400 I'm obviously I don't have a fantasia, but I often 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.080 try to place memories by trying to remember what we 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.800 were talking about at the time, and I'm sure that 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.280 comes off as rather weird to people who are more visual, 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.360 trying to remember what people were wearing or what, you know, 0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.440 what the weather was like that day, that those aren't 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.240 typically things I store as much. So maybe I'm lower 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.400 on the on the mental vividness scale. And of course 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.840 this is gonna get even getting into again the whole 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.919 complex nature of memory, where sometimes we have these clear 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.360 memories of what we were wearing, what we were doing, 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.520 especially when really important things happened, and those memories are 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.400 not all that reliable either. Sometimes the brain just kind 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.480 of goes ahead and just colors that scenario and you 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.440 tuck that mental image away in your mind, and it 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.639 might not even be all that accurate. Yeah, what happened 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.040 that night, Well, we were eating watermelons for dinner. Uh No. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.240 Another thing that Olaf says that's interesting is that he 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.600 talks about having this internal conversation with him with himself. 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.000 And this is another thing that we came across reading 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.960 for the previous episode, where if sometimes people report this 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.560 that instead of picturing the thing they're about to do, 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.760 they have a conversation mentally about what they're about to do. 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.879 So I don't picture walking to the kitchen going to 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:56.520 get a glass of water. I say, what am I 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.119 going to do? Now? I'm going to go to the 0:17:58.200 --> 0:17:59.960 kitchen and when I'm there, I'm going to get a 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.080 glass of water. Okay, let's do it. Okay. This next 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.760 email is from our listener Luisa called another a fantasiac person. 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.440 Luisa says, hello, guys, I really love the podcast, and 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.280 when I saw the topic for this week's one, I 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.240 knew it would be weird and exciting. I found out 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.440 that I was a fantasiac. I prefer a fantastic. Actually 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.960 I don't. I'm not sure what the proper word is. 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.720 I would assume based on the way the word is structured, 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.040 if you have a fantasia, you're an a fantasiac. But 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.000 I hope that doesn't come off as sounding like you're 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.119 a maniac a fantasiac. It does kind of sound like 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.240 like disturb People who would attack can say, like a 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.480 Blue Sunshine type of exploitation film, Well, that is a 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.199 great film, but please don't take it that way. But 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.360 maybe we can go with a fantastic. That's a nice 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:51.119 one like it anyway, she continues. When the studies started 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.479 to be reported by the media and science blogs, I 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.480 was one of the people who were like, wait, you 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.840 guys mean you literally see things? So yet again this 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.159 experience as a child, I got bored when I was 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.159 supposed to imagine things like counting sheep, and I just 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.639 thought it was something that grown ups found entertaining, but 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:11.359 I had no interest in like instrumental music and newspapers. 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.400 Years passed, and I guess I just never thought much 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.800 about it. When I found out I was different, I 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.040 felt immensely sad. It seems to be a very exciting 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.680 thing to be missing out. My grandfather passed away last year, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.680 and I need pictures to remember him by. Of course, 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:29.800 I know who he is and I can describe him 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:31.840 in detail, but I cannot, for the life of me, 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.199 picture him at all. It feels really unfair that I 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.040 cannot see him when people can do that easily, even 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.119 if they weren't as close to him as I was. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.399 It's weird that you guys can't imagine what it's like 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.160 to not be able to picture things. It's a lot 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.439 harder for me to try to imagine what it is 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.280 like to picture things. I guess it's hard either way. Yeah, 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.800 that's I mean, that's the crazy thing. That's like, we're 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.280 each on a different side of this stream. I mean 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.359 some people are kind of standing straddling in a little bit. 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.320 But yeah, I'm just trying to relate what the views 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.880 like from our side. Well, one listener on Facebook pointed out, Hey, 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.880 you know it's it's difficult to imagine things. What about 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.040 trying to imagine being actually blind instead of blinding the 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.040