1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Alex Murdog. Yes, it's not over. 2 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: His lawyers are vowing to appeal, giving press conferences. But 3 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: he may have more trouble ahead of him because now 4 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: we learn that the body of Stephen Smith, the young teen, 5 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: found dead in the middle of the road. It was 6 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: kind of like assumed it was a hit and run. 7 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: Not so fast, Murdog. He is set to be exhumed. 8 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: And we also finally learned the answer whose hair was 9 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: in Maggie Murdog's hand at the time of the murder. 10 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being 11 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation in series m one eleven. 12 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: But just for old time's sake, let's start with this. 13 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: Murdoch tell me one forty seven Mozelle Roads. I need 14 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: to believe me. My wife and Tom Scott bad. Okay, 15 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: you said forty one forty seven Mobile road in Alton, Sir. 16 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: He said forty one forty seven Mozelle Road in Alton. Yeah, sir, 17 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: forty one Mozelle Road. Okay. Yeah, Thursday on the line 18 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: with me, Okay, Okay, Collis, I have an Alex Murdock 19 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: on the line. Caller from forty one forty seven Moza Road. 20 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: He's advising that his wife and child was shot. Okay 21 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: again forty one forty seven Mozelle Road. I've been up 22 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: to it now it's bad, Okay are they breathing? No, 23 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: ma'am and your son, my wife and my thorn. No 24 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: man there owned ground out at my kennel. I will 25 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: never be able to listen to that nine one one 26 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: call the same way again. After seeing Murdog on the 27 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: stand day after day after day, his direct examination went 28 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: great than ever, Like the wicked Witch of the West. 29 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: It all thought it to melt when he got on 30 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: cross examination. Sitting right behind me in the courtroom. Sometimes, guy, 31 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 1: actually feel you breathing. Eric Bland. Eric Bland with me, 32 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: high profile lawyer throughout the Southeast and beyond and coincidentally 33 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: representing the family of Gloria Saderfield, another dead body related 34 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: to the Murdogs. You know, Eric, I kind of had 35 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: a hard time picking which nine one one call to 36 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: play first, because when it comes to the Murdocks, there 37 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: are so many to pick from. You've got the nine 38 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: one calls and the body cam the night that Maggie 39 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: and Paul god Rest their souls were found dead at 40 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: his third home, the Hunting Lodge, as it is called. 41 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: You've got him getting himself shot in the head as 42 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: an attempt to make it look like he wasn't the killer, 43 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: that the killer is still out there wandering around. Then 44 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: you've got the Gloria Satterfield nine on one call, You've 45 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: got the Stephen Smith nine on one call. It just goes, 46 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: oh yeah, in the Mallory Beach nine one one call. 47 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: I don't know if there are anymore, but there maybe. 48 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: But when I listened to him, Eric, you are right there. 49 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: And guys, let me tell you. Eric Bland has tried 50 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: a lot of cases and he is with bland Richter 51 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: dot com. Eric, thank you for making time for us 52 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: in the midst of all of your trials that you've 53 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: got went on. But after seeing him snodding on a 54 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: stand and giving evil eyes to people that he didn't 55 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: agree with, it's I can't really listen to the nine 56 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: one one call the same way as I did before, 57 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: after seeing him lie through his teeth, you can't. And 58 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: you forgot another nine one one call, which is the 59 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: one with Paul and Morgan as depicted in Netflix, when 60 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: he drove off the road drinking in twenty seventeen, and 61 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: let me just add that runoff road nine on one. Yeah, yeah, 62 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: Morgan called nine one one, and then Maggie and Alex 63 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: showed up and got mad at her for calling nine 64 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: one one with a flipped over truck, and they took 65 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: guns and alcohol away from the truck. So you know, 66 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: they should start charging him for these nine one one calls. 67 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: Because okay, just could you just slow down a second 68 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: right there? Hold on, because I want to analyze something 69 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: you said. I've got some of us to go through 70 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: all this evidence, but I just want to touch on that. 71 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: Alexas terrest joining me crime online dot com to get 72 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: a reporter. Alexis, you have a young boy that you 73 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: were raising. I'm proud to say I was there. I 74 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: was there, Alexis. Can you believe it or not? Alexis, 75 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: He's at the point, as are my twins. I have 76 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: to ask him every day. Are any of your friends vaping? 77 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: Who's vaping? Who's doing e? Siggs? Is? Anybody's smoking? Is 78 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: anybody smoking pot? Is anybody's drinking? Who? And guess what 79 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: they are? And they have been since the seventh grade, 80 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: not the twins praise the lord, but many of their 81 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: friends from really nice, loving families. Now my point is, 82 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: alexis you've got this young boy who is adorable, thank you, 83 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: and what would you do? Because here you hear Eric 84 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: Blandon he's right. The Murdoch show up and instead of 85 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: going what in the hey, you're grounded, give me those 86 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: car keys, they start clearing out guns and alcohol from 87 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: the car and are angry at the girlfriend for calling 88 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: nine one one. It is the exact emma of this family. 89 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: Every single time someone in their family does something wrong, 90 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: they cover it up, they hide, and then they try 91 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: to bully the other people into thinking that they are 92 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: not the ones that are responsible. They did it over 93 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: and over and over again, and in fact, people the victims, 94 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: the other victims their family were saying was so strange, 95 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: like my child was killed in what I thought was 96 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: a christ and on the street, and Alec Murdle immediately says, 97 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: you know, why don't you talk to me and I'll 98 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: defend you. I'll be your lawyers, thinking why on earth 99 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: would I need a lawyer? But it was him plotting 100 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: ahead to steal from them. He has a crime mentality 101 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: from the first second that his own family, anyone in 102 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 1: his family come at the crime. I mean, Eric Bland. 103 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: Back to Eric Bland, Guys, you should have seen this 104 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: guy at the courthouse. We were all camped out in front. Jackie. 105 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: I wish you had been there with me, because we 106 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: were all out there be you know, hundreds of journalists 107 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: and court watchers, league legals. Bland would come from somewhere. 108 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's kind of like he just descended 109 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: into the area. It was always dressed perfectly to the 110 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: nines and he would way through the crowd like it's 111 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: the new Johnny Cochrane. Everybody wants to talk to him. 112 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: Everybody wants to find out about the sadder Field case. 113 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: So Eric Bland back to that nine one one call 114 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: we just heard. Now that I've seen him on the stand, 115 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: caught in his lies, before there was you know, there 116 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: was doubt, is it real? What really happened? But now 117 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: that I've seen him and his lies, now that I 118 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: know he's lying, to listen to the nine one one call, 119 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: it just makes me even more angry at what he 120 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: did and us cover up. Yeah, he played law enforcement, 121 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: he played his family, he played his friends right there 122 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: on that nine one one call. Nance you heard him 123 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: say that he had already touched the bodies, but when 124 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: he testified at the trial, he said, I didn't touch 125 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: them until after I made the nine one one call 126 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: because the nineteen seconds just didn't work out. It. It 127 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: just goes too quickly for him, and so for him, 128 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: it's constantly changing the story. As to his children, you know, 129 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: they overindulged these children. They didn't put correct guard rails 130 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: and barriers, They didn't properly discipline these children when they 131 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: acted out. They had a free flow of alcohol at 132 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: the family. All these things lead to exactly what happened 133 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: on the night of June seventh. I mean, you don't 134 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: have to be fleeing to figure out that this is 135 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: this is the type of family they are. It's not 136 00:08:38,559 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: normal time stories with Nancy Grace. What is Mardoch's life now? 137 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember doctor Bethany Marshall joining me, 138 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: high profile psychoanalyst joining us out of la actually Beverly 139 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. But doctor Bethany, 140 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: I want you to hear this this next report, because 141 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: one night my coworker Illie, and I went walking well, 142 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: after all the programs had ended. It was dark, and 143 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: we went walking because we had been sitting in the 144 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: courtroom all day long. And we walked past the jail, 145 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: the local county jail where he was, you know, awaiting 146 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 1: the verdict, awaiting the rest of the trial. And it 147 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: was the razor wire, just big circles of it all 148 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: around the top, were like glistening in the night. And 149 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: we walked down and we're looking, and of course they 150 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: all the personnel came to see what was happening, because 151 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: I of course took a video of it, and we're 152 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: I think, trying to shoot us off. I've been thrown 153 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: out of so many places in pursuit of justice. But 154 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: that said, I thought a long time about Alex Murdog 155 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: and the life he had. I mean, I can't really 156 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: explain it. You know, when you go to the beach 157 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: and the air feels so good and you can breathe 158 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: it so easily. In Collaton County, I guess it's coming 159 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: in off the ocean from somewhere. But the air is 160 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: sweet smelling, and unless it's raining or really cold, it's 161 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: very mild. There's thousands and thousands of acres of Farmland 162 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: and Woodland. The people there were I mean, overwhelmingly friendly 163 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: and nice, whether they minute or not. The court personnel 164 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: just could not have been nicer, And I keep thinking 165 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: he gave all that up for this. Take a listen 166 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: to our friends at crime Online. Alex Murdai has been 167 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: the first days of the rest of his lifetime sentence 168 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: and a single cell at Kirkland Correctional Institution in Columbia, 169 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: South Carolina. During his first forty five days of incarceration 170 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: at Kirkland, Murdah will go through an evaluation process. At 171 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: the end of the forty five days, he will be 172 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: assigned permanently to a maximum security prison. During his time 173 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: at Kirkland, he's being kept away from the general population 174 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: and is only leaving his cell cell when he is 175 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: taken for another assessment exam. Now. Prior to this trial, conviction, 176 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 1: and sentencing, Murdaugh had been able to develop a certain 177 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: lifestyle behind bars at the county level. In his jailhouse 178 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: phone calls to family, he often remarked about inmates wanting 179 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: to trade their canteen for his shoes. Well, what he 180 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: was able to get used to before does not exist 181 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: for him now at Kirkland Correctional Institution. What's happening at 182 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: Kirkland CI. Take a listen to Dave mack Alec. Murdah's 183 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: single cell unit is made of concrete with a steel bed, 184 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: toilet and sink. He is under twenty four hour surveillance. 185 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: He's being kept away from the general population because prison 186 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: officials are concerned he might be a target for other 187 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: inmates considering how prominent his legal family has been. Because 188 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: of this, his time has spent all alone in his 189 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: cell unless he's being taken for tests or assessment. He's 190 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: in the most secure area of the maximum security unit 191 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: that is used for the most dangerous or most at 192 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: risk in me. We asked a prison consultant from Wall 193 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: Street Prison Consultants, Larry Levine, who joined our friends at 194 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: New's Nation. Take a listen to what he says. They 195 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: locked the prison down at different points twenty four hours 196 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: a day, so if they really want to, they can 197 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: grab him from his cell, take him out of the 198 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: housing unit, and take him over to Cycher Medical or something. 199 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: So I don't think that he's in there all day long, 200 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: but he'll have maybe an hour a day of free 201 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: time that he can get out of him to sell. 202 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: The only difference is the guy's not in GP, he's 203 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: not in general population, he's in protective custody. So I 204 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: guess his new best friend is whatever cop happens to 205 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: be on shift who's watching him. To doctor Bethany Marshall 206 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com, doctor Bethany, I don't 207 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: know in LA and Beverly Hills if they ever watch 208 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: Andy Mayberry, but we grew up on it. Think about 209 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: OTIS and the Mayberry County Jail, and it's not just Mayberry. 210 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: It's not just Carlton County. It's not just a lot 211 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: of county where Brian Coberger is being held, or the 212 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: county jail where cult mom Laurie Valo is being held. 213 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: All county jails that are in small jurisdictions are very 214 00:13:55,040 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: My experience has been very let's just say warm, compared 215 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: to a CI correctional institute. First, when you're in holding 216 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: waiting for trial, you stay at the county jail. Your friends, 217 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: your family can come visit. You may even know people there, 218 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: you may even know the wardens. You're all from the 219 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: same county, Especially if it's a small jurisdiction where Coburger 220 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: is who's charged with murdering four Idaho University students. They 221 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: wake them up with soft music in the morning. I'm 222 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: not kidding. They have pizza night on Friday night. He 223 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: can meet to have mass whenever he wants. He has 224 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: his own cable TV in his cell. Yes. Now, when 225 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: you go to a CI correctional institute, you're not in 226 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: Kansas anymore. It's much more bleak. But what I want 227 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: to ask you, doctor Bethany, and then I'm going to 228 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: go back to Eric and Crispin doctor doctor Kendel. Crown's 229 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: not you yet, but Crisp and jump in whenever you 230 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: want the dichotomy of that beautiful life he had. They're 231 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: in Colleton County, I mean Mozelle, the hunting lodge, sitting 232 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: on nearly two thousand square acres. It's beautiful, that's right. 233 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: Then he's got the beach house in Islington and then 234 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: the other residents. Has got a thriving law practice. I 235 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: mean Bland can tell you a law practice takes generations 236 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: to build, at least a law practice like that one. 237 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: He gave it all up for this to sit at 238 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: Kirkland Diagnostic that's right, Nancy. I've given so much thought 239 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: to this. What is his like going to be like 240 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: in prison as opposed to the life he had. What 241 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: are the psychological stressors for him going to be And 242 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: as you said, his life as an attorney, it was limitless. 243 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: He had absolutely no boundaries. He conned everyone around him. 244 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: He was an addict. And I don't know if you 245 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: caught in the Netflix special that Paul's friends said that 246 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: at the watermelon parade, he would pull all the high 247 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: school kids into his office and offer them alcohol. He 248 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: had handles, they said, I'd never heard that term before, 249 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: handles of alcohol like hard liquor in his office, and 250 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: he would supply that to all the kids. And now 251 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: he said, Paul, are you saying Paul or Alex? Pauliti? Okay? 252 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: Alex would get Paul's friends to come into his office 253 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: and then he would mix drinks for them. He had 254 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: handles of liquor in his office. And that is just 255 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: but one example of the limitless life. Alex Murdoch lived 256 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: where he thought he could do whatever he wanted to 257 00:16:53,960 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: do without consequences, even addicting miners in his community. So 258 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: think about the sensory overload he's going to face. He's 259 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: had a housekeeper taking care of his every need. He 260 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: has a wife who didn't work, who arranged everything socially 261 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: for him. He conned everyone he meant met. There were 262 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: no limits and boundaries, and now he's not going to 263 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: be able to con a prison guard. He's not going 264 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: to have that beautiful gourmet food. He's not going to 265 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: have luxury linens on his bed. So I think there's 266 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: going to be a certain trauma involved in this as 267 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: his whole being, his whole Psyche reorients itself to a 268 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: different kind of life. You know, Nancy, how we live 269 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: our lives becomes so normalized, it gets baked into our DNA. 270 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: In fact, there's a term called hedonic adaptation, and that 271 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: means that as our lives get better and better, we 272 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: have increased hedonism, which means a desire for pleasure. We 273 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: adapt to the pleasure in our lives and the pleasure 274 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: becomes normal. Well, what happens when every pleasure in life 275 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: is ripped away and it's replaced with the steel cot 276 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: and people who don't believe you anymore. He's going to 277 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: have to really adapt to a whole different environment. This 278 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: is going to take years. He's going to be in 279 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: an adaptation process for the rest of his life. Guys, 280 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: hold on, Eric Bland, I'm coming right back to you. 281 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: But Sydney, thank you, Sydney. You know how I love 282 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: jail menus is Sydney in here there she is? Thank you. Okay, 283 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,479 Speaker 1: let's know this, guys. Breakfast, apple drink, hard boiled eggs, 284 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: pancake with grits with margarine, biscuits, coffee and milk. That 285 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: doesn't sound too bad with me to me. Lunch chili 286 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: with beings, steamed rye, salad, bar, cornbread, iced tea, apple drink. Again, 287 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: I would love somebody to give me that dinner. Bray's 288 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: turkey with noodles, lima beans, biscuits, cake, murdog is having 289 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: cake and pancakes and salad, bar, iced tea and milk. Okay, 290 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: that doesn't sound that bad to me, Eric Bland. No, 291 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: but I'm just so you know, the jail that he 292 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: was in for the last year and a half, the 293 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: Alvin s Glen the County prison, is a very dangerous prison. 294 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: Dangerous jail, Nancy, There's been a lot of talk about 295 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: Colinton County jail. No, I'm talking about the one he 296 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: was in. So he's used to some very harsh conditions. 297 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: A lot of people have died in the last year 298 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: and a half. It's understaffed, there's gangs in there, and 299 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: now it may come under federal supervision. So he hold 300 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: on just a moment. Wait, Wait, what's the name of 301 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: the facility? Alvin s Glen. That's what he was in 302 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: up until the trial. Now he was in Colinton County, 303 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: which is a better jail, during the trial. But now 304 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: he's in Kirkland and getting assessed. And this assessment is 305 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: so important for him, but also the state. Remember the 306 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: state does not want to have him injured in prison 307 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: within the first ninety eight No, that's gonna really bad 308 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: for them. Correct. And when you say diagnostic, guys, this 309 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: is what that means. You're in the county jail typically 310 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: while you wait for trial. Then after you're convicted, you 311 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: go to a diagnostic center, which sounds nice, right. One 312 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: of them I saw is called the reception center, like 313 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: you're going to have cookies and punch when you get there. No, 314 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: it's basically where you go while they figure out what 315 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: penitentiary you're going to serve the rest of your life 316 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: in So that's the diagnosis. It means where they're going 317 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: to send you Go ahead, Eric, Yeah. They have to 318 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: figure out nance how many people in that prison that 319 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: he's going through were convicted in the fourteenth Judicial Circuit, 320 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: how many people were convicted by his father that are 321 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: serving out life sentences. They also have to worry about 322 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: his own psychological safety. You know, is he as suicide risk? 323 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: Own psychological safety. Look, look, we already saw fail at 324 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: his claimed attempt at suicide. That is going to happen, Okay, 325 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: his life, right, he loves he loves himself too much 326 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: to kill himself. That was Bland. I agree with you 327 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: and Bethany go ahead, Bland. Yeah, that was an attempt 328 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: to divert law enforcement away from UM thinking that he 329 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: was the suspect for the murders on June seventh, and 330 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: that there was you know, cartel people or somebody out there. 331 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: But this sixty day assessment is so vitally important because 332 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: they have to determine where to put him so that 333 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: he is safe and also other prisoners are safe, because 334 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: it could create a serious situation if people want to 335 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: get retribution against him UM and the state doesn't want 336 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: that kind of liability. Obviously they don't want to not 337 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: a right. I got it, I got it, I got 338 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: I've got to get to Stephen Smith. But Robert Crispin 339 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: joining me, private investigator, former Federal Task Force officer usd 340 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,120 Speaker 1: oj d EA in Miami, never lack a business there. 341 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: You've seen your share of homicide investigations and your share 342 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: of finding and rousing people out of the jail. You 343 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: can find him at Crispin's Investigations dot com. Crispin, just 344 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: give me a thumbnail about what life in the penitentiary, 345 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: not the College County jail is going to be like 346 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: for murdog Oh Nancy, this is about to get so 347 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: bad for him that the general public will probably never 348 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: really understand how bad it's about to give for him. 349 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 1: And I have been in so many prisons to interview people, 350 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: and going in, even as a Federal Asian, to go 351 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: to talk to somebody. It is the most eerie, uncomfortable 352 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: and unsettling experiences. I hate it. Wait until I get out, 353 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: I'll tell you. I remember one feeling when I came 354 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: out of the Fulton County jail, which in itself is 355 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: not that bad compared to other jails. I was never 356 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: so happy to see an ugly pothole parking lot in 357 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: my life because I was out of that jail. It's 358 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: just when they clang those doors shut. It's a feeling 359 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: that I will never forget Crispin, especially for somebody of 360 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: his magnitude in society. And once you forgot when you 361 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: were talking blah blah his magnitude in society, Well wait 362 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: until his menu changes, because all your chili and all 363 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: your apple sauces in everything. If you want to know 364 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: the reality of what really happens in jail, his chili 365 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: is coming with a side of cockroaches. Trust me. Somewhere 366 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: along the line, someone is going to go after him, 367 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: and that's reality. His grilled cheese sandwich is going to 368 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: have a bite out of it. Wow, I wonder what. 369 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: I wonder what Maggie and Paul are having for lunch? 370 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, nothing, they're dead. Sorry, don't care. And this 371 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: is going to be the best sentence for him, for 372 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: his life to deteriorate and crumble before his very eyes 373 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: on the way he's about to be treated. Unfortunately, he 374 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: didn't get the duck penalty, And I agree with Bland. 375 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: It was never an attempt to suicide. It was an 376 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: attempt to make it look like he was trying to 377 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: act like the real killer of Maggie and Paul were 378 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: still out there and finally coming after him. Time stories 379 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, I've gotten to get into Steven Smith, 380 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: but very quickly Maggie and Paul alexis terres Chuck Crime 381 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter. Much was made about the 382 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: hair in Maggie's hand. It was a few strands of hair. 383 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: Can you explain we have now learned from first responders 384 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: what that hair was, and that's why the defense didn't 385 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: make that big of a deal about out it go ahead. Well, 386 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: we all thought obviously that it was a clump of 387 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: Alex hair because he had a full head of hair 388 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: back then. We thought it was something she grabbed him 389 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: and fought off. It ends up, But according to the 390 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: forensics of it, when Maggie was shot and she shot 391 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: in the head, tufts of her hair blew off of 392 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: her head. She had a full, very long blonde hair 393 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: looked very thick from all the pictures, and tufts of 394 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: her hair actually flew and were in her hand, So 395 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: it was not a defensive thing where she ripped the 396 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: hair out of her husband's head as he was trying 397 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: to murder her. But it was just a result of 398 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: the way that he fired the gun at her head. 399 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: It blew her head a heart and if I blew 400 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: her hair off into her hand. Doctor Kendall Crowns joining 401 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: US Chief Medical Examiner at Tarrant County in Fort Worth 402 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: Lectures University, Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School, 403 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor 404 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, I really have you on today to talk 405 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: about eximations. But I noticed at trial the defense didn't 406 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: make a very big deal out of the hair in 407 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: Maggie's hand, and I was wondering why, and the state 408 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: never really even responded what they said about it in 409 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: closing statements something alike, they never tested the hair. Well, 410 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: of course, we all know the defense can also test 411 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: whatever they want to test as well. They didn't test 412 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: it either because we all knew it was Maggie's here, 413 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: or they did anyway. But the defense was right in 414 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: arguing they didn't test it because they were trying to 415 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: attack the state's investigation doctor Kendel Crown's have you ever 416 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: seen when someone is shot in the head that their 417 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: hair blows in different directions at the crime scene. Yes, 418 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 1: I have. So the wife was shot with a rifle, 419 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: and usually rifles they carry a lot of energy. When 420 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: the bullet hits the head, you have to think about 421 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: the head as the skull is kind of this hard 422 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: circular trap that cannot deal with much expansion, And when 423 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: the rifle bullet enters the skull, it puts all this 424 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: energy into the skull and then the skull rapidly expands 425 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,719 Speaker 1: and explodes. And when it explodes, it rips your scalp 426 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: apart and can send portions of your scalp and your 427 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: hair all over the place. So usually with high powered 428 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: rifles shotguns, we see a fair amount of scalp disruption 429 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: in the hair getting in different areas. You know, when 430 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: Alexis Treshchuk was talking about mag you have a picture 431 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: of their family. It's the one where she has on 432 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: the mink coat and they're all dressed in Texas to 433 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: go somewhere, and Alexis to talking about her thick head, 434 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: thick blonde hair, and I was just thinking about how 435 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: she lost her life. And then I listen to him 436 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: lying on that nine one one call. It actually makes 437 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: my chest just clinch up hearing him lie about them. Okay, guys, 438 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: he's got more problems headed his way. In the name 439 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: of Stephen Smith and Gloria Satterfield. It ain't over yet. 440 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut ten te. Oh my gosh, 441 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: We've been waiting on this forever. Sandy Smith wakes up 442 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: every morning thinking about her son Stephen and her years 443 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: long search for answers. And they said he was shot 444 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: in a hedge, and then it turned out it was 445 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: a hit and run, and then he was beat up 446 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: and showed. The story just kept changing. Stephen Smith's body 447 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: was found along Sandy Run Road in Hampton County in 448 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: July of twenty fifteen. The official cause of death at 449 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: the time was that Smith died of a hit and run. 450 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it, but he when they told 451 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: me hit and run, I said, that's impossible, because Stephen 452 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: Wolton have been walking in the road to start with. 453 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: He would have cut through the woods, he would not 454 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: have been in the highway. And listen to more from 455 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: our friends at WYF With no arrest made that search 456 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: for answers continues and the case is reopened. In June 457 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division announced 458 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: that they were reopening the investigation into Stephen Smith's death. 459 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: In a statement, then they set the decision to look 460 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,239 Speaker 1: into the death was based on information gathered during the 461 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: murder investigation into the deaths of Paul and Maggie Murdoch. 462 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: For Sandy Smith, it could be another step closer to 463 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: justice or more unanswered questions. It's like he's a nobody 464 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: because we're poor people. That was until the murders of 465 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul Murdoch in June of twenty twenty one. 466 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: That same month, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division reopened 467 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: Smith's case based on information they had gathered during that 468 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: initial murder investigation. What that information is, though, still has 469 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: yet to be revealed. SLED reports they have made progress 470 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: in the last year and a half, but to this day, 471 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: no suspects have been formally named in real to Smith's death. 472 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: No interviews with anyone from the Murdoch family are ever 473 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: noted in highway patrols documents. Alexis Terrestschuk has been following 474 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: the Stephen Smith investigation very closely. She's joining us from 475 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: crime online dot Com. Alexis terrest shuck. Please refresh everyone's 476 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: recollection regarding the death of this young man, Stephen Smith. So, 477 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: Stephen Smith was found in the middle of the road 478 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: with his clothes on, but like one shoe missing, and 479 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: but it was right next to the Murdoch property. So 480 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: someone from the Murdoch family found him. Alex called, they 481 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: called the police, they came. Everybody said, oh it was 482 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: you know, it was a hit and run. This is 483 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: a terrible thing. Before in the middle of the road, 484 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: killed in a hit and run accident. The mother, she 485 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: was called to the scene and Alec even says to her, 486 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: you know what, why don't why don't you try to 487 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: hire me as an attorney. I'll try to get chief 488 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: some money for this best For a couple of years later, 489 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: people start talking. Everybody says, wait a minute, wait a minute, 490 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: wait a minute, this wasn't a murder. This is not 491 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: I mean, this wasn't an accident. This was a murder. 492 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 1: People are saying. There are rumors that Paul but Buster 493 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: Murdo and Stephen were in a relationship and Stephen was 494 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,719 Speaker 1: openly day and his mom that he had told her 495 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: that he was in a relationship with somebody, but he 496 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: couldn't say who it was because it was a prominent 497 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: family and he didn't want anybody and that person didn't 498 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: want anybody to know. She has thought for all of 499 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: these years that he was murdered. Everybody in the town 500 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: thought that the murder has had something to do with 501 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: this murder, and she has finally, after this case is done, 502 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: after Alex has been convicted of killing his wife and 503 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: his son, she has raised enough money to have his 504 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: body exhumed and have an independent new autopsy done. And 505 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: this is not something actually that the state is paying for. 506 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: They're not doing it. They're not saying, well, our investigation 507 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: is going so well that we need to do this 508 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: for evidence. So it's very very very slowly moving along. 509 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: But thanks to this case, thanks to the generosity of 510 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: so many people, almost a thousand people donated to just 511 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: go fund made that they she has enough money to 512 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: have his body brought up and to determine how he 513 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,959 Speaker 1: was killed. And it's probably not going to be just 514 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: from a car coming in. Man and listen to Blayer 515 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: sayba wcsc somebody out there knows something. It's July eighth, 516 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. A driver on his way to work calls 517 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: nine to one one to report a body lying in 518 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: the middle of the street on Sandy Run Road. The 519 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: victim turns out to be nineteen year old Stephen Smith, 520 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: a shy teen, but a funny and outgoing one to 521 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: his inner circle. Smith was openly gay in the small rule, 522 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: South Carolina town he grew up in. The blunt force 523 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: trauma to his head appears as a possible gunshot wound 524 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: to the first responders on the scene, but the coroner's 525 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: office later rules his death a hit and run. He 526 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: also has injuries to his left arm and left hand, 527 00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: and there are some more details Before I go to 528 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: you Eric Bland and Robert Crispin regarding the hit and run. 529 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: Take a listen to more from Blair Sayball. Smith's carr 530 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: was found about three miles away on Bamberg Highway. It 531 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: won't start, but investigators find his wallet inside the gas cap, 532 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: also unscrewed. His family reports he would have never left 533 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: the car, calling him skittish, and his twin sister, Stephanie, 534 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: also tells authorities that her brother had become very secretive 535 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: about two weeks prior to the incident and last take 536 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: a listen to Blair Sayball. Documents show investigators fielding tips 537 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: about the Murdoch family in the days and months following 538 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: his death. The first tip comes in early August, suggesting 539 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: swirling rumors of a relationship between Smith and Buster Murdoch 540 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch's eldest and now only surviving son. An investigator 541 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: also feels a tip about another possible suspect, but that 542 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: tipster tells them he passed along the information at the 543 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: request of a well known family patriarch. Former solicitor Randy Murdoch. 544 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: Andrew says in the record she has the Murdoch name 545 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: is mentioned forty times. Where there's smoke, there's fire, there 546 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: has to be something to it. Eventually, the leads dried 547 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: up and the case went cold, joining me from the 548 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: jurisdiction as high profile lawyer Eric Bland, attorney for the 549 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 1: housekeeper Gloria Satterfield, who also died at the Murdoch property. 550 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: What is happening with Steven Smith's case? Since when did 551 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: a mother of little means have to go on go 552 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: fund me to raise money for an eximation of her son. Well, 553 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: let me let me just correct some misperceptions. Okay. One, 554 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: you just can't exoom a body. You have to get 555 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: a court order to do it. So I'm going to 556 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: assist with us. I think some other attorneys in making 557 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: that petition to Alex was not at the scene. It 558 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: was Randy Murdle, the brother, and Randy Murdoll called Sandy 559 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: Smith and and offered his services, and she was a 560 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: little perplexed as to why she would need his services. Three, 561 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: he was supposed to go to Key West that weekend 562 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: to go fishing, and he didn't tell his mother who 563 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: he was going with. But what he said is it 564 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: was a very prominent person. So something was discovered by 565 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: SLED when they began investigating Maggie and Paul. We don't 566 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: know whether it was phone evidence, either on Paul's phone 567 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: that may have postdated to death, or Alex's phone or 568 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: someone's phone. There may have been a statement or something. 569 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: And we certainly learned a lot about phones in this trial. 570 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: Nancy and SLED could issue warrants for people's phones because 571 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of post depth chatter. It's 572 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: clear that he wouldn't have left his wallet in his 573 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: car if he was going to get gas. His mother 574 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: also has talked publicly that he was aware that it 575 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: was risky where he lived, being a gay young man, 576 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: and so he would not have walked in the middle 577 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: of the road. He wouldn't have taken the route that 578 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: the police think that he took where he was ultimately dropped. 579 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: And it's obvious to everybody, Nancy, that he wasn't hit 580 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: by a car that had happened somewhere else. So I 581 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: think if we exhumed the body and then we start 582 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: doing some phone searching, I believe there's going to be 583 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: chattered on people's phones that posty his death. I mean, 584 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in an echo chamber. We're at 585 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: very close to a Murdoch property on a route that 586 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have taken, just like when Alex Murdog cat 587 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: himself shot in the head connected to reportedly someone in 588 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 1: the Murdoc family leading up to an event that weekend 589 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: away leading up to the Malory Beach case and the 590 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: potential force as in the Maggie and Paul murders. I 591 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: mean shot, we believe, possibly shot in the head, I mean, 592 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: and then a Murdog showing up like in Mallory Beach 593 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: and in Saderfield offering to take care of the case. 594 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I think and I make a call. It's 595 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 1: like an echo chamber. Yes, just like an offending pattern. Okay, 596 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: we see offending patterns with um sex, predators, with peace 597 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: with robbers, but this is an offending pattern that the 598 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: entire family was engaged in. It's like every human being 599 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,720 Speaker 1: in that town was a potential mark, a potential person 600 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: who could die and then they could file, you know, 601 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: some kind of a lawsuit, some kind of acclaim and 602 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: then take money from the trust account. It's like a 603 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: simple pattern that comes up again and again. Robert Crispin, 604 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 1: private investigator. You can find him at Crispin Investigations dot com. Robert, 605 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: what should have been done at the Stephen Smith scene? Well, 606 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, to kind of understand on all this, 607 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: you kind of got to go back to when he 608 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: was hit on that road those years ago. You know, 609 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 1: back then when nobody suspected anything with the Murdoch family. 610 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: You know, his death could kind of be explained. To 611 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: be honest with you, that head injury could be consistent 612 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: to a passing truck mirror and I don't know how 613 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: tall he was, but clearly I mean, I've I've seen 614 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: things where people have pedestrians on the road and get 615 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 1: hit by a rear view mirror and go fly and 616 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: they got a head injury. And then you compound something 617 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: like that with the shoes off. Sure, your shoes come 618 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: off when you get hit by a car, of course, 619 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: but what's different in this case is the car, the shoe. 620 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: The pattern looks like he was dumped there, and I 621 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: think that's probably now looking back, they'd probably say he 622 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: was dumped there, But as an investigator back in twenty fifteen, 623 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 1: they probably thought he was hit by a car. And 624 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: then you have a high profile person showing up and 625 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: being part of the scene. Nobody suspects anything. Yeah, why 626 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: did he suddenly show up? Doctor Kennel Crowns joining me, 627 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner, Tarrant County, that's Fort Worth. What do 628 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: you make of this scene where Stephen Smith was found dead? 629 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I find it hard to believe that he'd 630 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 1: leave his wad in his car to go get gas 631 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: and be walking in the middle of the road near 632 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: a Murdock property. I mean, what do you expect an 633 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 1: exhimation can show, let me narrow the question, Doctor Crowns, 634 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,439 Speaker 1: when exhimations can still show injuries on the body, specifically 635 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: injuries to the skeletal system. So if his head is 636 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: injured and it's hit by a sideview mirror from a passing, 637 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 1: that would have to be like a pickup truck or suv, 638 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,959 Speaker 1: because I'm sure it wasn't a semi truck. You would 639 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 1: see fractures of the skulls. Still, that would be con 640 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: system was being struck in the head by a hard object. 641 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,479 Speaker 1: I mean, the area that he was found doesn't sound 642 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: like it was a highway, so you're not dealing with 643 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: highway speed. It's odd that he's in the middle of 644 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: the road. It's odd that if he's hit, you know, 645 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: by a very fast moving car, that there wasn't more 646 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: a tearing of the clothes. It's odd that he's in 647 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: the middle of the road and not ran over by 648 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: another automobile. Youre ryan Is clothes were intact, Doctor Crowns, 649 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: His shoes were on, he had clearhead trauma injury. There 650 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: was no broken glass from a car, no car part, nothing, 651 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: And he has like blue plaint chips or something on him, 652 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: which doesn't fit for being hit by a side view mirror. 653 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: It's there's a lot of inconsistencies for being hit by 654 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:55,240 Speaker 1: a car, but an exhimation can still the skeletal system 655 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: will still be intact, and they can still look at 656 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: the fracture patterns on the skull was put in. There 657 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: wasn't the injury. Wasn't the injury at the back that 658 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,720 Speaker 1: they had, which means that there was maybe an element 659 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: of surprise if somebody murdered him, you know, Eric Bland. 660 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: Another good point made by doctor Bethany Marshall and doctor 661 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns. Of course, Eric, did you say a group 662 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: of lawyers are going to help in getting a court 663 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,360 Speaker 1: order for the exlimation now that there's enough money to 664 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: pay for it. Correct, We're gonna make them a motion, 665 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,240 Speaker 1: and we're also going to put public pressure on Sled 666 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: to actually stay where they are in the investigation. I 667 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: got to ask you something else before we run out 668 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: of time, Eric Bland, When is Gloria Satterfield going to 669 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 1: be exhumed? Don't know? You know, I've had why Well, 670 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: they've asked, They've asked us twice. We've agreed, I don't 671 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: always asked who twice? What Led has asked the family 672 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: through me, would we consent for an actimation, and we 673 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: said yes because obviously they would go to court and 674 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 1: get that. The difference is he did fault. She fell 675 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: down this stairs. Now, whether she was pushed or she tripped, 676 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: the injuries are going to be basically the same. They're 677 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 1: gonna be these closed and open head injuries with broken ribs. 678 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: So I'm not sure what it's going to show. The 679 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: two witnesses, Paul Maggie are dead, Alex isn't going to talk, 680 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: and the farm hand came up fifteen minutes later, so 681 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: Lester was post death discussions. I'm not sure what an 682 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: exlimation of glory is going to show. Now. I do 683 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: think an exlimation is Stephen is gonna be more telling. 684 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: So we'll have to wait and see where what Sled 685 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: decides to focus on it as justice un false. Goodbye 686 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: son