1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 4 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. My name is Noel, 5 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: and our compatriot Matt is on vacation. I think we 6 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: could say he's on vacation. Yeah, that's where I just 7 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: knew he wasn't here. Yeah, he uh, he and his 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: family have I don't know how much he wants me 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: to say about this, but they're they're on a nice 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: holiday vacation. That's lovely. He deserves it. If anyone deserves 11 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: a vacation, it's it's our boy, Matt. Agreed. Agreed. And 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: in the meantime they call me Ben. We are joined 13 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: you are you. You are here, and that makes this 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Know. How How 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: familiar were you growing up with Native American mythology or 17 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: oral tradition, just Native American tradition in general, or specifically folklore, folklore, 18 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: or the legends of gods and monsters. You know, I 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: think I probably grew up with more of a grasp 20 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: of like Greek mythology, uh than than Native American mythology 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: for sure. I remember, you know, reading stories about like Hiawatha, 22 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: for example, that was a real, real historical figure, right, 23 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: the founder of the Iroquois Confederacy or a co founder rather. 24 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: It's it's interesting because often depending on where you are 25 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: in the world or where you are in the US, 26 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 1: you will not learn an extensive amount of info about 27 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: Native American folkloric or spiritual or mythological traditions. But the 28 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: truth of the matter is that thousands of years before 29 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: the first Europeans ever reached the continents that would become 30 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: known as North and South America, of civilizations rose and fell, 31 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: creating rich traditions of architecture, agriculture, and of course cultural beliefs. 32 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: While each of these spiritual or historical traditions was unique, 33 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: their stories shared many of the same traits that other 34 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: cultures shared. You know, the lands were filled with gods 35 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: or monsters and spirits, both good and evil. Animals often 36 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: represented some certain moral compass or you know, perspective on life, 37 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: and there were legendary heroes. There were sacred days that 38 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: were of course origin stories of the people creating the 39 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: traditions and their enemies and more. And there were also 40 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: stories of other tribes or communities or civilizations. Like one 41 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: thing that's strange is it doesn't happen all the time. 42 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: But in many ancient cultures, the word that the people 43 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: used to describe themselves translates directly to just the people 44 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: or the real people, but the true people and everyone 45 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: else is somehow, yes, exactly other. And in a lot 46 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: of cases, these stories that concern other tribes or communities 47 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: might be stories explaining the animosity between a neighboring tribe 48 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: or how they got a weird name, like the fish 49 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: eater people or something. Or there might be stories that 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: feature a single member of a distant tribe a stranger 51 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: coming to town. But in some other cases, more cases 52 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: than you might think, there were stories of intelligent beings 53 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: that interacted with us. That we're not God's but we're 54 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: not quite human. And today's episode is about one of 55 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: these groups. The how best to say this? The allegedly 56 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: legendary c tak ka I like that good alliteration, man, 57 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: thanks no, thanks, no so taka. So the story of 58 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: the Cia they have several other names, comes from allegedly 59 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: the oral history of the Northern Paiute people. There are 60 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: Umic tribe that traditionally uh that happened to live in 61 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: what we would now call western California, western Nevada, and 62 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: southeast Oregon. Yeah, that's right. They lived in um lands 63 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: centered on a lake or in wetlands uh. And they 64 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: existed and roved in bands who would team up and 65 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: and have these communal hunts, and members would move freely 66 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: between these bands of hunters and they would share this 67 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: super rich and fascinating oral tradition. And in this tradition, 68 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: according to the story, the Paoot told tales of a 69 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: nearby ancient antagonistic tribe known as the Sea, the Sai 70 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: Duca or the Sai E. And according to these legends, 71 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 1: the Staka were a tribe of cannibalistic giants. It's weird 72 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: because the name Sea doesn't mean anything. It doesn't signify 73 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: anything about gigantism uh, nor does it signify anything about 74 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: consuming human flesh. Instead, the Freeze literally means tool eaters 75 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: to u l e in the language of the Paiute, 76 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: and tool is a fibrous water plant. Will explain how 77 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: this comes into play later. But what's the what's the 78 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: gist of this legend? How do they show up in 79 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: this story? Well, I'll tell you Ben. The gist of 80 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: this legend is as follows. After being terrorized by these terrifying, 81 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: cannibalistic ten foot tall, red headed giants, the Piute had 82 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: enough and they went to war. And this battle was 83 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: incredibly long and incredibly bloody, but eventually, by pitching in 84 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: and throwing their lot in together, the Piute prevailed. The 85 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: Secon attempted to make a getaway very cleverly um from 86 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: the paved by living on rafts that seems a little 87 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: bit misinformed. That couldn't just they couldn't swim um, But 88 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: this was also related to a legend that had they 89 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: had crossed the ocean to the America's on these rafts 90 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: as well, but four ending up in the desert area 91 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: of western Nevada. Eventually, a coalition of tribes, possibly with 92 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: communities other than the Payope bands joining in, trapped the 93 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: remaining Sea Techka in a nearby cave, and when these 94 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: giants refused to come outside, the Payout piled brush before 95 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: the cave mouth and set it on fire. The entire 96 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: population of c Techka ended up dying inside. You will 97 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: hear people say that some of them made a run 98 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: for it and ran through the fire, only to be 99 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: speared or shot with arrows or murdered by the people 100 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: waiting outside. And this is pretty gruesome stuff, right, I mean, 101 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: according to the story, the tribes didn't just seal off 102 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: the cave and bury these folks alive. They also raised 103 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,799 Speaker 1: any traces of c tech cas settlements to the ground, 104 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: and they wanted to erase them from history. Right except 105 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: for this story, right, And ordinarily this story would just 106 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: stay that a story, startling, fascinating, ultimately unprovable. I mean, 107 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: ten ft cannibals, right, come on, I like it. I 108 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: like it as a story for sure. Yeah, But wouldn't 109 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: they have left some traces? Where's the proof? Here's the thing, 110 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: what if someone else found the cave? Will answer that 111 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: question after a word from our sponsor. Here's where it 112 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: gets crazy. So back in ven a few people did 113 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: think they discovered the actual resting place of the Sea 114 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: Ta ka Um. In western Nevada, on the outskirts of 115 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: the Humboldt Sink, is this small cave. It's hot and 116 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: it's dry, and it's isolated, but it wasn't always that way, right. 117 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: This was once part of an enormous lake called Lake Lahontan. 118 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: It's applies to see Era Lake that was around maybe 119 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: thirteen thousand years ago, and at the time it was 120 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: one of the largest lakes on this continent. But it 121 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: eventually dried up and it left a number of smaller lakes. 122 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: Among these was Humboldt Lake, and this cave was on 123 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: the shore or is on the shore of this lake. Today, 124 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: as you're listening to this episode, you can reach the 125 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: cave yourself. You just drive down a dirt road from 126 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: the small town of nearby love Lock, Nevada. This cave 127 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: takes its name from the town, and most people today 128 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: also call it love Lock Cave. It has a couple 129 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: of other names, but love Lock is it's go to moniker. 130 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: In nineteen eleven, there was a pair of guano miners 131 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: from the town of love Lock who were hunting guano deposits, 132 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: which was quite a profitable thing to sell at the time. 133 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: They discovered that the cave, as a result of being 134 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: sealed off to a great extent, had accumulated a huge 135 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: population of bats, which leads to overtime vast deposits of guano. 136 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: So they spent a year digging out this guano and 137 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: shipping it to a buyer in San Francisco. And at 138 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: first they were thinking, wow, we struck it rich. There's 139 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: this huge pile of guano. But as they started to 140 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: dig the stuff out, they found more and more ancient 141 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: artifacts that were mixed in the bat poop. And eventually, 142 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, most of the time when they were doing 143 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: when they were minding this stuff, they would just find 144 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: like a sharda pottery or a sandal or something, just 145 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: throw it outside the cave in a little pile of rubbish. 146 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: But they got to the point where they were they 147 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: were finding more artifacts than they were finding guano, and 148 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: it became less profitable. So in nineteen twelve they said, 149 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: you know what are we doing. This is we've gone 150 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: like a meter or so down into the ground and 151 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: there's more stuff from this unknown ancient civilization then there 152 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: is bat poop. And let's be honest, dude, we're here 153 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: for the poop. So let's get some professional help. And 154 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: they contacted the University of California. The university sent an 155 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: anthropologist named Llewellyn L. Loud. I thought you'd like that name. 156 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: I love the name Llewellen. Did you know that about me? 157 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: I know a lot and Loud and paired that that's 158 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: first of all ticks, all my alliteration boxes. You've got Luellen, 159 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: l Loud. Loud is an amazing last name. Lewellen is 160 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: a is a man's name, right. Wasn't that the name 161 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: of the dude in uh country for old Um? That's 162 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: Lewin Davis. I think his name was Luellen, the main 163 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: dude in uh No Country for old Man. I think 164 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: his name was Lewellen injured. I think you might be right. 165 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: It's been a while since I saw that. But that's 166 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: a great film, great film. So they said this guy, 167 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: this anthropologist, Dr Loud also a great nickname, to check 168 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: it out. And what does he end up finding? We 169 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,359 Speaker 1: found a lot of things, about ten thousand individual artifacts 170 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: um from that rubbish. He been different parts of the caves. 171 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: It was mostly along the walls where miners had kind 172 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: of ignored and not cut into um. And Loud's workload 173 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: was such that it took him like seventeen years before 174 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: he was finally able to publish an account of all 175 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: of these findings. Yeah, and you know, it may sound 176 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: like it took him forever, but this was a herculean task. 177 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: What we now know is that the earliest evidence of 178 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: human habitation in this cave goes back about four thousand years, 179 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: and that's according to the radio carbon dating of the 180 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: oldest artifacts. Today's anthropologists call these people, whomever they may 181 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: have been, the love Luck culture, and the time in 182 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: which they lived was referred to as the love Luck Period. 183 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: It lasted three thousand years, during which they left us 184 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: all these artifacts that you mentioned, Noel. We're talking about 185 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: baskets crafted with a pretty impressive degree of sophistication, these 186 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: ancient duck decoys made from fibers of that same plant, 187 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: tool and sage brush, sandals and so on. They think 188 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: the cave was experiencing it's heyday somewhere between fift b 189 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: c E until four forty, when a collapse cut off 190 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: the easiest access to most of the cave. And by 191 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: the time that collapse had occurred, this group we call 192 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: the love Lock culture had been supplanted by the Piute, 193 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: and the piutes name for these predecessors was Saidaku, literally 194 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: translated to tool matt house dwellers. I mean they lived 195 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: in those they lived in huts made of that. That stuff. 196 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: I love a good literal descriptive translation like that. A 197 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: lot of the a lot of the names that they 198 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: have for different bands or communities are descriptions of what 199 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: they eat, like the fish eaters, there's the um the 200 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: brine fly ears, which I don't know what that is. 201 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: They sound like they were living the roughest like it 202 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: does sound like brine flies. Yeah. So the PIU once 203 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: they take over this cave, they continue using it until 204 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty nine when Europeans and European descended people begin 205 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: populating the region and they are all killed off or 206 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: driven away the piot that is in eighteen thirty three 207 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: when an expedition led by a guy named Joseph Walker 208 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: explores the area. So there is a real cave, uh, 209 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: and the civilization or a civilization existed in the area 210 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: before the piou um. But how does the rest of 211 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: the story check out? Like the the whole you know, 212 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: redheaded cannibalistic giants sitch, that's the thing. Yeah, there are 213 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: a few issues. The first and the biggest issue is that, 214 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: according to more skeptical researchers like Brian dunning over at Skeptoid. 215 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: There is no actual Piout story about this group. There are, 216 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: he notes, stories about lone giant that pop up, but 217 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: there's nothing actually about some group of people called the Teka. However, 218 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: there is one account from eighteen eighty three by an 219 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: author named Sarah Winnemuca Hopkins. She's the daughter of a 220 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: Piot chief named Winnemuca, and in her book Life among 221 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: the Piots, Wrongs and Claims, she tells the story. We 222 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: have an extensive excerpt of this, so I'll just paraphrase 223 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: it here. She tells the story of a among the 224 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: traditions of our people, as one of a small tribe 225 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: of barbarians who used to live along the Humboldt River. 226 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: This is many hundreds of years ago. She says, they 227 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: used to waylay my people and kill them and eat them, 228 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: and they would even eat their own dead. They would 229 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: come and dig up our dead after they were buried, 230 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: carry them off and eat them. And now and then 231 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: they would come and make war on my people. They 232 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: would fight, and as fast as they killed one another 233 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: on either side, the women from their tribe would carry 234 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: off the dead to consume them. So at lasts the 235 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: Piot make war on them. Uh. They were about twenty 236 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: hundred of the Sea Techa and the war lasted three years. 237 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: And then Hopkins goes on to say, we did kill 238 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: them in great numbers. We saw that they fled to 239 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: the bush. We set the bush on fire. Then they 240 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: tried to make boats to live on the lake or 241 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: rafts to live on the lake. And her people would 242 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: ring around the lake and would kill anyone who came 243 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: on land. And then finally they all managed to get 244 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: to land on the east side of the lake. They 245 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: went to a cave and then the they got cornered 246 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: and the Piots, according to Hopkins, again came to them 247 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: and said, look, will you be cool? Will you not 248 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: eat people like coyotes or beasts, scavengers? Please that super 249 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: swell And they said no, we're not going to give 250 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: it up. This is what we do. And then once 251 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: you get a taste for human ben we all know 252 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: that you can't go back. Yeah, always studdying Philadelphia talks 253 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: about it. That's with the Weddigo legends about. But apparently 254 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: they started to gather wood to fill up the mouth 255 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: of the cave, and then they came back to the 256 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: state techa and gave them one more chance. They said, 257 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: will you give up and be like men and not 258 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: eat people like beasts? Say it quickly, and we will 259 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: put out this fire. But they had either refused to 260 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: talk to them, or they had gone too deep in 261 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: the cavern to hear people talking at the entrance. So 262 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: no answer came, and the fire burned. And in ten 263 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: days some people went back to see if the fire 264 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: had gone out, and they said they must all be dead. 265 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: There was a horrible smell. This tribe was called people eaters. 266 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: And after that, where they what's the thing? The one 267 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: eyed three toad flying purple? Yeah, one eyed one that. Yeah. 268 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: They called them people eaters. And they say, according to Hopkins, 269 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 1: that the tribe they exterminated had reddish hair. And she 270 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: said that she has some of this hair. It's been 271 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: passed down from father to son. But she has it 272 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: an address, a dress that is ringed with red hair, 273 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: that was a morning dress. Uh. But no, the trail 274 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: goes dead there. We don't know. There's no picture of 275 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: the dress. We don't know if anyone's seen it. And 276 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: that's not the only issue with the story. No, it's 277 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: definitely not. And we will get to some more of 278 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: those holes after one more quick sponsor break so first. 279 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: As often happens with stories like this, there there are 280 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: no actual giant humanoid bones available for viewing today, which 281 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: I find to be a shame. According to one of 282 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: the minors, the best specimens were taken by a local 283 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: fraternal order of Masons. Yeah that's right, um, who boiled 284 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: them clean to use in an initiation rituals. Right right uh? 285 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: And and according to the reports of what Dr Loud 286 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: actually found, there were sixty mummies that were unearthed, but 287 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: they were of average height and some of the world's 288 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: oldest duct decoys. One of the big things they found 289 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: was a sandal that was over fifteen inches long, so 290 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: someone with really really big feet, right uh. They found 291 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: doughnut shaped stone with three six notches carved along the 292 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: outside fifty two carved inside. Some people think that's a calendar. Uh. 293 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: They also found human femur dating back to four four 294 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: fifty BC, human muscle dating to fourteen twenty BC, and 295 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: basketry dating back to twelve eighteen. They found a bunch 296 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: of stuff, and during the initial excavations there were these 297 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: reports of mummified remains being found of two red haired giants. 298 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: One they said was a female skeleton six and a 299 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: half feet tall, and the other was a male over 300 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: eight feet tall. However, not only is as you said, no, 301 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: not only is there no evidence we can find about 302 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: this today, physical evidence at least, but no one mentions 303 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 1: giants in those original tales or the original discoveries or 304 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: even Hopkins recollection, because again she she tells that story 305 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: that sounds pretty familiar to us, but she calls them 306 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: barbarians and cannibals, not giants. The first mention of giants 307 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: doesn't occur until a nineteen thirty one newspaper article, not 308 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: some ancient legend. And then there are some other authors 309 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: who say it's possible that because of them, because of 310 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: the amount of large mega fauno fossils that could be 311 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: around that area, they could have just found the bone 312 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: of a larger ancient animal and thought this is the 313 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: leg of a giant person. A femur bone does look 314 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: that different between like say, some sort of giant cat 315 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: and a human, right exactly exactly. But then we get 316 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: to the question of the hair, because the red hair 317 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: thing seems to be pretty consistent at a red herring 318 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: it's you know what it is, It exactly is, and 319 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: that's a great way to put it. So naturally, dark 320 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: hair over time has a tendency to fade to red 321 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: in certain conditions, and that's part of the reason why 322 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: you will see so many stories of red haired mummies 323 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: being found in ancient burial grounds around the world. It's 324 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: because the amount of time that they are interred can 325 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: affect the rate of decay or appearance of the color 326 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: of their hair. So they very well maybe red haired now, 327 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: but most of the red haired mummies you hear about 328 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: originally had very dark hair. So is it is it 329 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: about like getting bleached and discolored by exposure to the sun, 330 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: or are there other fact factors at play? Yeah, it 331 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: appears to be a chemical reaction as the hair d 332 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: nature's This means that exposure to certain temperatures or certain 333 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: chemicals present in soil can change the chemical composition of 334 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: the hair and change the way at which it would decay, 335 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: so it removes some of that pigment or it alters it. 336 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: So it's a it's a fascinating thing. But the key 337 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: element here is that these people don't start off with 338 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: red hair, which is relatively rare throughout our species. Right. 339 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 1: I guess you and I both have a little bit 340 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: of red hair, Matt probably as the most of us. 341 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: I only have a little bit. It's in my beard 342 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: and in the parts that used to be red or 343 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: now turning gray. So I guess they're becoming d natured 344 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: themselves different way. I don't know, in a different way, right, 345 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: So there you have it. Today, many of those original 346 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: artifacts found at the love Lock Cave can be viewed 347 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: at a small natural history museum located in winnen Muka, Nevada. 348 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: And then some of the other objects are at the Smithsonian, 349 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: like those ancient duck decoys, and the basketry and bones 350 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: are in the Nevada State Museum. One thing you will 351 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: not find in any museum, at least that we have 352 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: been able to uh as so far as we've been 353 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: able to ascertain, are any trace of giants humans or 354 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: a race of giant humans, a tribe, a species of community, 355 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: or band of giant humans. But we do have one 356 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: more thing. We had to save it for last. You see, 357 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: the myth of the c Tekka is not completely busted. 358 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: Miners and archaeologists did find something else in love Lock Cave, 359 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: human bones that have been split to allow for the 360 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: extraction of marrow, human bones that have been processed the 361 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: same way the bones of an animal would have been processed. 362 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: They may not have been giants whoever lived here in 363 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 1: this Lovelock culture, but these people did. It turns out, 364 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: practice cannibalism at the very least in times of famine, 365 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: and who knows, Noel, perhaps it was a situation where 366 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: at first they eight human flesh because they had to, 367 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: and then later they developed a taste for it. Either way, 368 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: at least according to one source, Sarah Hopkins, the piot 369 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: objected and drove them to extinction. It's definitely a fascinating legend. 370 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: I'm i'm I love the idea of giants, as I 371 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: know you do. Ben. It's something that um, I think 372 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: you're fond of in fiction, and this idea of some 373 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: sort of proto man that roamed the earth, that was 374 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: that some kind of you know, species of giant. I'm 375 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: also a big fan of Andre the Giant. Yeah, and 376 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: it's true that gigantists some does occur in uh in 377 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: the human species throughout throughout the world as a result 378 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: of genetic mutation. It's also true that some parts of 379 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: in some regions of the world, people on average will 380 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: tend to be much taller. I think the Netherlands or 381 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: somewhere in northern Europe that's the place where people on 382 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: average are the tallest. And the Philippines, I believe, is 383 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: where people are on average are the shortest. But again 384 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: those averages can be deceiving. There are also some fascinating 385 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: reports from early Spanish explorers in South America who swear 386 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: up and down that they've met first or second hand 387 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: actual giants, like people so large that an average person 388 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: of let's say, uh five ten to six ft tall 389 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: would have only come up to their waist. What's the 390 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: cutoff here though, because onder the giant was I want 391 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: to say seven something, and we had some stats talking 392 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: about the couple that was found. I'm supposedly then this 393 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: story where the female was only six and a half 394 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: feet tall and the male was like eight something, which 395 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: isn't super giant. That's a little taller than andre, but 396 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: it's not, you know, so tall that an average type 397 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: man would be like knee high to a bed bugs 398 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: by exactly. And also if they were giants, how how 399 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: did this war go on for three years, and how 400 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: where the SKA always on the run. It sounds like 401 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: maybe they were if if they if there is truth 402 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: to Again, the only primary source we have for this 403 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: is Sarah Winnemuca Hopkins. If if they existed, they were 404 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: probably just practicing objectionable cannibalism. So for now, as today's 405 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: episode ends, we can say with confidence only that the 406 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: tallest record the tallest person in recorded history is Robert Wadlow, 407 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: at eight ft eleven inches tall, and he was not 408 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: a fierce warrior. He suffered from a medical condition that 409 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,959 Speaker 1: made it incredibly painful for him to walk around, at 410 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: least for now. Because you know, there are people out 411 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: there who believe that various museums and secret institutions have 412 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: been suppressing knowledge of giants since time immemorial. And this 413 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: is not the first time we've investigated historical tales of 414 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: lost civilizations or giants. Perhaps we will find some proof 415 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: in another in another episode. I would ben, I would 416 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: love that tunal. In the meantime, thank you so much 417 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 1: for tuning in. As always, we hope you enjoyed this 418 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: exploration of the sea. Let us know what other um, 419 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: what other legends you've heard in your neck of the 420 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: global woods that later came to have some sort of 421 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: seed of truth. We are all Ears. You can find 422 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: us on Twitter and Facebook where we are conspiracies Stuff 423 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: on Instagram or Conspiracy Stuff show. UM. You can join 424 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: our pretty cool Facebook group discussion group UM called Here's 425 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: where it gets Crazy. All you have to do is 426 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: name one of our names. Pretty surely you can do that. 427 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: If you are familiar with the show. We say it 428 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: at the top of every episode. I'll tell you. I 429 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: don't know if we mentioned this on air, but sometimes 430 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: I think our our mods might get a little irritated 431 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: with me because sometimes if the answer is funny enough, 432 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: I'll just let someone in. Well that's that's I mean. 433 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: I applaud any amount of creativity when it comes to this, 434 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: And if there is something that you put down that 435 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: makes us unequivocally know that you're into the show, then 436 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna We're gonna let you in. It's not about us, 437 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: it's about you. 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