WEBVTT - I Don't Have Thumbs 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:06.160 Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio, the George 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:10.200 Washington Broadcast Center, Jack Armstrong, Joe Getty. 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:17.280 Armstrong and Getty and now he Armstrong and Getty. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:27.000 The world's longest snake has been found thirty two feet long. 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:29.200 That's a long snake. 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:34.440 That is a very very long snake. Lfs for sure. 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:42.880 So great stuff happening on the sorting out progressive policies 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.040 front and one in particular leapt out. It's not made 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.920 any well, not made many national headlines anyway, and I 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.760 became aware of it when our good friend Tim Sandefer 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:55.640 alerted us to it. 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:56.600 Tim the lawyer. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.760 Sanderfer, vice president for Legal Affairs at the Goldwater Institute, 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.720 has written more books than I've read, only a slight exaggeration, 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.119 including Freedom's Furious How Isabel Patterson, Rose Wilder Lane nine 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.440 Rand founded Liberty in Age of Darkness, which is a 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:10.280 fascinating rate. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.560 Anyway, Tim, welcome, How are you, sir? 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.800 I'm great, Thanks for having me Bet, of course. 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:16.839 Yeah. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:22.039 So you guys won a big victory in Arizona, and 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.319 maybe I just missed it, but I think it's a 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.520 little uncomfortable for the mainstream media to report why don't 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:28.280 you tell us about it? 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:28.800 Yeah. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.400 So, you know, in Arizona, like many states, we had 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:37.679 a serious problem with an explosion in homelessness in recent years, 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.400 thanks in part to a crazy ruling by the Ninth 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.319 Circuit Court of Appeals that tied the hands of police 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.280 officers and local governments when it came to clearing out 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.120 encampments on the sidewalks and things. Well, the Supreme Court 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.600 overruled that, so that case has gone. But nevertheless, a 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:57.240 lot of city progressive city leaders really just thought that 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.720 the best thing to do was not to enforce laws 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:03.240 against camping on the sidewalk or on public property or 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.040 in public parks and things. And the result here in 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.440 Phoenix was the largest homeless encampment in the country. They 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.880 called it the Zone, a thousand people living in tents 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.200 in downtown Phoenix during the one hundred and twenty degree 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:17.919 summers during the COVID pandemic. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.480 Well, doubt of the great I didn't realize. I didn't 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.640 realize that was the biggest homeless camp in America. Did 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.120 you witness it with your own eyes? 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:24.520 Oh? 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.480 Yes, and it's pretty. It's really something to see. I mean, 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.840 it's fortunately it is largely cleared away now, but at 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.679 the time, I mean, we're talking about entire blocks where 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.760 people were just living in tents and doing drugs in 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.480 public and defecating and urinating in the streets and things, 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.760 and with the city refusing to do anything about it, 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.920 because that's what progressives consider to be compassionate right, is 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.840 to just let people just wallow in their filth when 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:48.560 they need help. 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:50.200 So what we did. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.000 At the gold Winter Institute is we wrote a ballot 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.800 initiative and we said, look, if local governments are not 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.720 going to enforce the law and protect taxpayers the way 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.720 that they're supposed to x payers have to protect themselves 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.119 by installing bars on their windows or getting security cameras 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.360 or whatever, then they should at least get their tax 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.360 money back. And so voters overwhelmingly approved that at this 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.560 most recent election. And then it's called Prop three one 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.960 two here in Arizona that says, if the city refuses 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.480 to enforce these laws and creates a public nuisance like this, 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.920 they lose the tax money that was supposed to go 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.280 to your police protection that you're not getting and you 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.480 get that to deduct that from your tax. 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:29.960 Wow, we're going to. 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.840 Push this vallid initiative idea in other states. Now we're 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.400 starting with four states in the coming year and try 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.720 and get some responsibility out of these city officials. 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:39.839 Yeah. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.840 That sound you hear is millions of Californians turning their 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:45.880 radios up louder and saying. 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.320 Wait a minute, this is possible. 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.960 Wow, that is that is so awesome and and logically 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.240 makes so much sense. How do you draw the line 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.760 on when they've not lived up to the responsibility and 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:00.560 it's below the bar where it's just you know, this 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.400 is typical live in a big city. 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.880 There's going to be some homeless people around. Where's the cutoff. 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.880 No, that's a very good question, because we do you 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.000 can't just make them enforce every single law in every 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:14.720 single circumstance, regardless of you know, equity or individual instances 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.240 of you know, understandables, conduct or whatever. Anyway, the way 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.320 we did that was we said that if it reaches 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.920 the level of a public nuisance, which is a concept 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:27.000 that exists in state law in every state, and if 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.760 then the city's are liable. And we have said if 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.880 the city has a case by case determination not to 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.080 enforce a law in a particular circumstance, they can do 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.640 that as long as they give a written explanation of 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.280 why they chose not to enforce the law in this 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.040 particular case, then they're allowed to do that. They just 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.080 have to explain why. But what's really happening in these 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.080 cities is just these blanket across the board ideas of well, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.320 we're just never going to enforce the anti camping laws downtown, 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.200 and that's the thing that we're trying to push back on. 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:02.240 The real victims of those kinds of policies are both 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.240 the homeless people themselves who need help, even sometimes against 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.600 their will, and the taxpayers, the hardworking taxpayers of these 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.200 communities who pay their money hoping for police protection and then. 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.240 Go get it right. A couple of points. 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.680 Number one, I'm glad you summed it up the way 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.279 you did at the end, because so often these things 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.560 are seen first from the point of view of the 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:30.719 quote unquote homeless as opposed to everybody else who has 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.520 a specific and undeniable interest in having law and order 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.200 and civilization maintained in their towns. 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:43.560 And it should be said that a huge. 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:47.359 Percentage of these people are simply drug addicts, and the 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.640 idea that you can cloak a bunch of drug addicts 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.080 living in filth and breaking the law in the righteous 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.760 garment of the poor, unfortunate who had medical bills they 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:03.880 couldn't pay. Therefore, society has no power interest in enforcing 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:04.160 the law. 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.880 That's just wrong. And think about what's been portrayed for 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:07.400 a long time. 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.880 Think about what these non enforcement policies do. Like here 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:16.200 in Phoenix, the zone included this one business, a sandwich shop, 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.479 that were owned by this couple named the Falacis. And 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:25.200 the Falangis were forced to become homelessness counselors, right because 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.720 what happens is these people will wander into the business, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.360 scare away, the customers, threaten the employees, and so forth 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:33.919 and so on, and the Falangis are then forced to 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.719 take care of these people or to protect their customers, 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.200 or to you know, call the police or do or 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.039 intervene in some way. They're not trained to help people 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.839 who are either psychotic, which is often the case, or 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.240 who are on drugs and a dangerous threat to others. 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.440 And yet so by refusing to enforce the law, the 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.919 city was basically conscripting the Falacis into protecting themselves and 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.800 protecting their employees and protecting the general public and cleaning 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:58.480 up and doing all these things that's their. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:06:59.800 Tax dollars are supposed to go for. 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.640 I mentioned the Selachis, by the way, because we just 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.279 this past weekend at the Goldwater Institute held our big 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.520 annual dinner, and we presented them with an award to 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.120 say thank you for standing up for your rights and 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.800 championing this ballot initiative Prop three point twelve that now 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.040 says if the city refuses to enforce these laws, then 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.480 it loses the tax money and people get to get 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:21.160 their money back. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.000 Well, I'm glad this is going this direction. 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.040 But like one thing, that's impossible to measure, because I 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.320 have a friend who owns a business in this situation. 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.800 He doesn't have homeless in particular in front of his place, 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.480 but he's downtown where there's lots of homeless people, and 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:37.600 there's no way to measure how many people have decided 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.560 I don't go downtown anymore because of all the homeless. 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:42.920 Yeah, that's right, And a lot of these communities are 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.120 being destroyed by progressive policies that say, well, until you 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.640 construct enough shelters to house the entire homeless, population, we're 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.600 refusing to do anything to mitigate the problem, and which 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.520 is crazy policy making. It reminds me of a lesson 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:00.560 I learned from a friend. One to you said, you 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:05.040 know you are judged by your second best policy option, 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.600 because if everybody had their first best policy option, you 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.800 would have utopia. You just wave your magic wand and 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.640 you'd have perfect society. Well, you have to accept that 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.640 a perfect society is never going to happen, and then 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:19.320 ask yourself what is second best and the second best option? 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.320 Since we will always have a homelessness problem forever, the 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.480 second best option is how do we help these people? 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:26.840 Now? 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.520 What steps can we take realistically to help particular cases 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:32.840 and not just sit back and fold our arms and 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.360 say well, until we have socialist utopia, we refuse to 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.160 lift our fingers, which is the progressive approach to solving 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:39.040 the homeless problem. 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.440 Yeah, I continue to reject the term homeless because when 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.240 you're talking about the lazy and or the drug addicts, 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.160 the distinguishing characteristic of their lives is not the lack 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.600 of a fixed address. It's that they are junkies and bums. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.520 And then back to my previous point, very briefly, because 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.240 you're the fascinating guest that I'd drawn on for hours 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.200 at a time. Is and this is purely an argument 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.360 in terms of effectiveness. If your first principle or your 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.200 first question is do we maintain law and order and 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:15.800 civilization and the answer is yes, then you break up 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:17.880 the camps, you send people away. 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:18.800 But wait a minute. 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.200 You have this man who's psychotic, it's not his fault, 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.680 or these people who couldn't afford their medical bills. Well, 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.800 having dispatched with the lazy, the bums and the junkies, 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:29.920 now we can help those people. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.080 If we default first. 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.760 To compassion for the quote unquote homeless, we'll never get 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:40.280 to those people. You've got to be not cruel, but 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.800 effective to be kind. 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:43.720 Am I wrong? 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:45.120 No, you're absolutely right. 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.079 And I say this as a person who has had 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.600 homelessness in his family. I've had homeless relatives. I think 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.000 most many of your listeners have probably had homeless relatives 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.760 that they can testify that what you said is absolutely true. 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.959 A lot of people need help, even when they don't 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.559 want it and don't see it out. They need intervention 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.400 to protect themselves and to protect them and sometimes they 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:06.559 will look back afterwards. 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:07.200 And say thank you. 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.400 But I will tell you this, Joe, if your answer 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.960 to the question is of should we defend ordinary civilization 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:17.000 and enforced law and order, If your answer to that 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:21.520 question is yes, apparently you're some kind of extremist, reactionary 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:22.960 weirdo in today's world. 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:24.320 That's correct. 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:29.640 Yes, Well, you know, it's a multifaceted problem. All the 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:34.120 things we've mentioned, and then the homelessness industrial complex as 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.360 we call it, with the billions and billions of dollars 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.200 that are flying around. There's a lot of organizations getting 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.920 a lot of people making their living off of this, 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:48.000 and it not being solved gets them more money, not less. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:53.079 Yes, and those are primarily government bureaucracies. I mean, when 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.599 the make it sorry welfare state was created in the 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.920 nineteen thirties, the argument for it was, well, private chair 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.080 hasn't solved the problem of poverty. 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:03.960 So we need to have government. 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.240 Okay, Well, now we've been we had a century now 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:11.760 where government is taking primary responsibility for the for poverty 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:12.760 and the poor and so forth. 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.440 Has it solved the problem? No? I don't think so. 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:19.520 If the homelessness industrial complex as you call it, and 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.800 that's a great terms, absolutely right, if that complex would 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.320 devote its money to actually solving this problem on a 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.880 community basis, going in there and trying to take this 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.920 problem on as a private, charitable matter so that you 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.200 can weed out the deserving from the undeserving poor, they 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.440 would accomplish a lot more than just saying, well, what 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.320 we need is more government bureaucracy and more across the 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.520 board rules about no, we're never going to enforce the 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.400 law in the public park down in Tucson or Phoenix 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:45.880 or whatever. 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.000 You know, Tim, can we take. 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.280 A quick break and come back and do five more minutes? Yep, 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:52.079 I'm going to see if I can get some of 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:53.320 your greatest tits out of you. 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:56.160 Tim's in Arizona. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.679 We're in California, where half the homeless people in America live. 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.000 Because of our policies, we got more on the way. 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:02.520 Stay hear. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:06.320 Yeah? 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.880 Here here, Tim Sander, for vice president for Legal Affairs 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.920 at Goldwater Institute, is on the line. Tim, I was 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.800 going to prompt you with the followings, coming off of 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.319 our discussion of the billions of dollars spent on the 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:26.560 quote unquote homeless problem. Government expenditures go to someone or something. 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:31.360 Can you help us understand the relationship between the taxpayer's money, 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.760 a government bureaucracy, and a problem to be solved. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.959 Yes, well, when for one thing, remember that government gets 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.200 paid even if it gets the answer wrong. This is 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.840 the most important thing you can know about politics, actually, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.160 is that that's how it differs, how government differs from 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.640 private business. If private business screws things up, it doesn't 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.440 get money. It doesn't get paid. If I go to 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:55.800 you know, to Taco Bell, and I order a burrito 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.960 and they give me the wrong burrito, I don't pay 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.560 them until they get it right. If the gun does 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.120 something and it gets it wrong, it still gets paid 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.480 because that money comes from taxpayers against their will. And 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.040 in fact, they might even get paid more because they 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.600 can convince the some government committee. Oh well, the reason 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:14.880 why we failed is because we didn't have enough funding. 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.840 So the incentive is to keep the problem around, or 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.679 to redefine the problem more broadly. For example, instead of hunger, now, 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.360 instead we're supposed to be concerned about, oh, what is 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:30.199 the term that po food insecurity, which means you are 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:30.680 going to eat. 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:31.960 It's just you're not sure where. I mean. 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:33.880 I'm food insecure because I don't where I'm going to 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.520 order dinner tonight. So we redefine the problem because there's 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.640 an incentive to keep the problem around so that the 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.080 government can expand Also, there's the problem that if I'm 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.600 spending my own money for my own purposes, I'm going 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.079 to really make sure that I get the best bang 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.960 for my buck. But if I'm spending somebody else's money 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.199 for my purposes, I don't really care so much about that. 0:13:57.480 --> 0:13:59.480 I might spend a lot more than I otherwise would 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.640 because it's not my money. And if I'm spending somebody 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.960 else's money on somebody else's purposes, well, then I'm definitely 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.360 not going to care about whether I get the best 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.240 possible bang for my buck because it's not my money, 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.920 and I don't particularly care about whether I accomplish the purpose. 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:16.080 So you should. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.240 The idea that we can trust government to solve these 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:23.600 problems more than we can trust private industry is frankly crazy. 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.480 I'm not denying that private businesses do stupid and wrong things. 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.360 Of course they do. We know that they do all 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:29.760 the time. 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.280 The question is why would you trust government even more 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.960 when government even gets paid when it gets the question wrong, 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.880 when it gets the answer wrong. And when government has 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.280 no particular incentive to save money because they're not even 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.920 spending their own money, you should trust government less than 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.560 you trust big business. So if you distrust big business, 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.000 you should really distrust big government. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.840 If rered lobster has all you can eat shrimp and 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.640 it drives them out of business, they don't get more money, right, 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:55.240 something new right. 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.280 Whereas if government has all you know, gives away free 0:14:58.280 --> 0:14:59.960 food to everybody, then it turns around and says, well, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:00.680 we ran out of food. 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.880 We need more of your tax money. You need to 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:03.680 feed more people. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:07.240 Now you know this is a book length answer, you 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:13.360 have ninety seconds. How did what should be a presumption 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.880 of deep suspicion that the government's going to solve a 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.720 problem become an incredibly widespread assumption that, well, of course, 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.120 the government is here and will solve our problems. 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.280 Well, it was a long term, gradual process, primarily through 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.400 the New Deal and the Great Society. But remember that 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.320 the New Deal in Great Society, neither of those were 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:36.640 terribly popular. 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:37.920 Even at the time. 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.600 There was a backlash against the New Deal, and there 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.120 was a huge backlash against the Great Society. And it 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.720 was just during those few years really just between thirty 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:52.480 two and thirty five and between sixties three and sixty six. Really, 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.880 those were really the years when you got about half 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.120 of the federal government that we now have today. 0:15:58.480 --> 0:15:58.720 Wow. 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.000 So it was a slow process of corruption of the 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.760 public morals where government came along and said, well, you 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.080 don't have to worry so much about compassion in your 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.520 local community because the government will do it better. And 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:11.640 you know a lot of people said, oh good, then 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.800 I don't have to worry about it and stop taking 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.160 responsibility for themselves. And if you don't take responsibility, you 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.680 can't have freedom, because those two things always go together. 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.040 Tim Sander for Vice president for Legal Affairs at the 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.760 Goldwater Institute Goldwater Institute, Well worthy of your support. You 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:31.000 can find them online very easily. Indeed, Tim, always enlightening. 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.240 Thanks for the time, Thank you guys man. It's our pleasure. 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.280 Democrats win a couple of big elections where they've got 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.760 big time control of the Senate and the House and 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.160 the Presidency, and you get the New Deal and the 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.480 Great Society ram through, and like Tim said, there's half 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:45.360 your federal government. 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:46.760 Now. Then you add to. 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.240 That the principle that if there's a benefit nobody ever 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.840 dreamed of in their lives for a dollar that all 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.640 of a sudden they get. If you try to take 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:59.960 that dollar away, they'll burn their city down, right, because. 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.880 I was counting on that dollar. Once the stuff gets started, 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.199 it's impossible to end it. Interesting stuff. 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.200 If you miss an hour, get the podcast Armstrong and 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:08.240 Getty on demand. 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:12.760 Armstrong and Getty. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.359 Step away from woke, focus less on who is woke 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.720 and more on who is broke. 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.360 Social justice issues, and take a back seat when your 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.840 son is in the basement vaping and playing video games 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:28.920 and can't find a job. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:38.760 I feel like that last guy was really venting more 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:39.520 about his son. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.560 Everybody else had sort of a broader point, but. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:52.479 His was just so specific. John Stewart is a master 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:53.080 of humor. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.359 His pause was the perfect length to the millisecond to 0:17:58.440 --> 0:17:59.440 maximize the humor. 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.240 That he's really good at that. 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:03.160 Uh. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.640 That's pretty good line though, from that guy who's lifting 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:06.720 weights with what's his name? 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:07.320 Cuomo? 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:12.840 Chris Cuomo, your training partner, My training partner. Although he 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.679 took way more selfies than I was taking. 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:18.080 That was so funny. Uh, I've never seen anybody do 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.000 that before. After every rep. 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:21.439 He get his pump on it, and he get the 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.480 angle right and smile and take the pictures like who 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:25.240 he's sending these to? 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.119 Man? That is so foreign to me. 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.520 Was I gonna say, Oh, that's pretty good line. We 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.520 need to focus on more on who is broke and 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.200 not who is woke, which is a pretty good line. Uh, 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.480 before we get to some of the news of the day. 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.640 I keep seeing this headline. And the economy has been 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.080 roaring pretty good since Trump got elected for a variety 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:49.600 of reasons. Cryptocurrency keeps setting new records. Bitcoin broke another 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.720 record yesterday, eighty seven thousand dollars for one bitcoin. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:55.680 It was sixty eight thousand a week ago. 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:57.439 I mean, if I could have bought a handful of 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.960 bitcoin a week ago and changed my life, there is 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:02.679 nothing I understand less than this. 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.720 I will not I'm not going to try either. 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.160 It's like I'm putting it in that category like climate change, 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.320 of things I don't read about. I'll just let other 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.439 people handle those topics. I've never looked into climate change. 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:14.840 I'm not looking into bitcoin. 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:17.399 Yeah, I just wish i'd thrown a few bucks at 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:17.800 that myself. 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.680 Oh good lord, And is that gonna last or I mean, 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:26.040 is there. I know Trump's a big crypto honk. Is 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:27.960 that enough for it to go up? Of course stocks 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:29.400 can go up for all kinds of reasons. 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:34.640 Sure, the amount of speculation in cryptocurrency too, So man, 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.320 crypto just just from my observation from Afar is like 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.240 the all time if you can, if you can ride 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.800 the wave of emotion, you could really make a lot 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:45.560