1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in history class from house 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm Molly Fry and I'm Tracey Vie Wilson. And normally, 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: when a person revolutionizes not one, but two industries, you'd 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: think they would become a household name. And that's not 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 1: really the case with today's topic. Uh, this isn't exactly 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: a globe trotting tale. Uh. He's spent most of his 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: life in just a couple of cities. Uh, the person 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: that we're primarily talking about, but elements of his life 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: story are certainly known the world over and in his 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: his home, Mary is that he's quite well known. And 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,319 Speaker 1: so this is about a man, it's about gambling, it's 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: about burlesque as well as other forms of entertainment. But 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: you don't need to worry is kids safe unless you 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: do not want them exposed to the concept of betting 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: on animals, which has its own ball of problems. But 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: what it's about, sort of above everything else, is entrepreneur 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: a real spirit. And uh, we're gonna be talking about 19 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: the entrepreneurial spirit of one man in particular, whose name 20 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: was Joseph Ull. So start at the beginning. Joseph Uley 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: was born in Terrassa, Spain, on February nine, and his 22 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: father worked in the family business, which was textiles, although 23 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: it apparently did not particularly suit the elder ule. His 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: name was Francois, but when Joseph was born, his father, 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,759 Speaker 1: who was twenty five at the time, had already moved 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: to Paris to work with his cousin and his textile mills, 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: so he didn't want to run this small family business, 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: but he was okay with staying in textiles, and Francois 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: I feel like we should point out had not abandoned 30 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: his family to go to Paris. He moved there intending 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: to set up a stable situation so that he could 32 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: then send for um his wife, Marie Taures and their 33 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: new baby. Two years after Joseph was born, Marie Tarez 34 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: and her toddler child made the move to Paris, and 35 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: Francois and his wife expanded their family with two more children, 36 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: Alexandra and Jean, and growing up, Joseph worked for his 37 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: father in Paris, but eventually France Swab became concerned that 38 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: his son, who had been born in Spain and was Catalan, 39 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: had never learned to speak Spanish, so when Joseph was seventeen, 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: he was shipped off to Billboo, Spain as a sort 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: of immersion plan, although that they speak a very different 42 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: language in Bilbao than uh, you know the Catalan would 43 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: normally speak. Uh, So that was a little bit weird, 44 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: but it ended up being important for him. It's here 45 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: attending cock fights that Joseph witnessed a number of betting 46 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: disputes among the spectators and it's likely that this kind 47 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: of planted the seed in his young mind that would 48 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: germinate later. Yeah, and he participated in the betting from 49 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: a very early age, like he was into gambling. And 50 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: I just feel like we should say, as a sidebar personally, 51 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: I will give my own opinion on this. Cock fighting 52 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: is horrible and terrible and I don't think of it 53 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: as a sport. And it is sort of troubling to 54 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: me that people bet on animals fighting, but just have 55 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: to included as part of the historical record. But after 56 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: he returned to Paris or they became a fan of 57 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: horse races and the betting that went on there, uh, 58 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: and horse racing was really becoming extremely popular in Paris, 59 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: particularly in the eighteen sixties and on, and he attended 60 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: races all over the city because tracks were basically popping 61 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: up everywhere, and he would witness these wagers that were 62 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: struck between you know, men of means, like just personal 63 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: wagers between two men um But he really became super 64 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: interested in the concept of these sort of like smaller 65 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: potatoes bet makers, like this concept of the betting pool. 66 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: And in this instance, this is where multiple gamblers with 67 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: smaller amounts of cash to wager, they couldn't make the 68 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: big bets that wealthier men could, would basically purchase random 69 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: tickets and those tickets would be assigned to specific horses, 70 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: and the holder of the ticket associated with the winning 71 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: horse would take the pool, so it was kind of 72 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: a randomized betting pool. In eighteen sixty five, he opened 73 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: a business to take advantage of the popularity of this 74 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: pool system, and he also had a mobile office, which 75 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: was a gambling wagon that he would park in the 76 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: shawn to the marsh with other mobile offices all ready 77 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,239 Speaker 1: to take bets. Uh. It's sort of like a food 78 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: truck park, but with gambling instead of sesame fries. Yeah, 79 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: like not the delicious food, but all of these little 80 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: mobile gambling trucks would show up and they would all 81 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, be available to take bets for these betting pools, 82 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: and pool gambling was extremely popular, as you can imagine, uh, 83 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: but it was a little bit problematic. Um gambling on 84 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: games of chance was actually illegal in Paris at this time, 85 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: and Ull was concerned that he could be shut down 86 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: for his enterprise because he sold random ticket assignments. So 87 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: it was basically a huge game of chance. And this 88 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: whole dilemma led to a complete shift in the way 89 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: sports betting was handled. So before we get into how 90 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: he kind of revolutionized betting, let's take a quick ad 91 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 1: from a sponsor. Okay, So back to Joseph Ude and 92 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: his gambling methodology. So to combat this problem of this 93 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: previous method of betting being purely chance based, they came 94 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: up with a betting system that put the gambler's knowledge 95 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: to work, and this became known as the peri mutuel system. 96 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: So his new approach to betting required the gambler to 97 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: select the horse they believe would win, and for regular betters, 98 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: this made gambling into something of a science because they 99 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: would benefit from learning about the racing horses, both in 100 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: general and in the specific sense of tracking a particular animals. 101 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: Animals performance sounds sort of self explanatory today. Yeah, I mean, 102 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: they're it's so common now to just hear even like 103 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: friends or like co workers discussing like a person's batting 104 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: average and how that's going to affect the team in 105 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: their likelihood, or when they pick fantasy football, like they 106 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: everybody has all the stats, and that's really This was 107 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: the birth of that idea and that approach to betting 108 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: on sports with Joseph Hule. And so this new business venture, 109 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: being brand new, you would think would have been a 110 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: gamble in and of itself, but it was not in 111 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: the least. It paid off immediately and uh he I mean, 112 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: he just immediately had people ready to place bets. And 113 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: I think it's also part of the sort of that 114 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: human spirit where you like to put your knowledge to 115 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: work a little bit. So it was very appealing on 116 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: a different level than just gambling. And he even started 117 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: publishing the Bulletin de Course, which was in effect the 118 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: first racing form where it would include the stats on 119 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: horses and any information about them, and he even started 120 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: offering betting for races that were taking place not just 121 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: in France but also in Great Britain, so he was 122 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: kind of expanding the betting options for people. The first 123 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: year of this off course UH betting business was the 124 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: same year that Paris hosted Napoleon the third pet Project, 125 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: the Paris Exhibition, and this meant the in addition to 126 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: his regular Parisian customers, he was getting some international travelers 127 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: in the mix as well, which contributed to his success 128 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: and the rapid growth of his business. And the way 129 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: he was making money off of all of this was 130 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: that he was taking a commission for taking and managing 131 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: all of these bets, and he was getting five to 132 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: ten percent of the money. So if it was a 133 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: really big pool, he would only take five percent. If 134 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: it was smaller, he would take ten. Uh. But there 135 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: was so much cash flowing through his office and there 136 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: were so many races, especially once he had expanded the 137 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: race offerings into other countries into being able to bet 138 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: on races in other countries, that he amassed a small 139 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: fortune rather quickly. In the late eighteen sixties, French authorities 140 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: really cracked down on gambling and this could have just 141 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: put him out of business, but his switch away from 142 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: pool betting had proved to be a really wise move. Yeah, 143 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: Perry Mutuel kind of saved him in the end. The 144 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: Court of Casassion, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, which is 145 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: the highest court in France, had was examining this idea 146 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: of you know, how, uh, gambling and betting should be 147 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: handled in what was going to be legal and what wasn't, 148 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: And they didn't indeed decide that pool gambling was illegal 149 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: in a ruling that was made on June six of 150 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine. But Pari Mutual was determined to be 151 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: safe from this judgment as it was not considered a 152 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: game of chance because it relied on people's intellect and knowledge. 153 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: This doesn't mean that his enterprise just failed right along, though. 154 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: Outside of the gambling world, there were other events unfolding 155 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: that made Paris of related tumultuous place to live. Uh. Yeah. 156 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: So during the winter of eighteen seventy eighteen seventy one, Prussians, 157 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: which were leading several independent German states that France had 158 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: been at odds with, surrounded Paris and they eventually defeated 159 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: France uh in the Franco Prussian War. Right on the 160 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: heels of that defeat. As Napoleon the Thirds government was 161 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: crumbling in a peace treaty with Germany was being negotiated, 162 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: the people of Paris rose up against the French government, 163 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: and the events of their resistance, known as the Paris Commune, 164 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: lasted from March eighteenth to May eighteen seventy one, and 165 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: those could easily be topics in and of themselves for 166 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: full podcast, but I just wanted to give you a 167 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: quick kind of here's what was going on and why. 168 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: Joseph Huley had in fact gotten out of Paris for 169 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: a while. He fled to London before the Prussian invasion 170 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: even happened. But once the political turmoil of UH the 171 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: winter of eighteen seventy in the first half of eighteen 172 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: seventy one had died down, he returned to Paris UH 173 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: and he picked his business right back up where he 174 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: had left off, and it was immediately successful again. So 175 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: after he came back to France, wholly modernized his bookmaking 176 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: business by printing out tickets mechanically, and this proved to 177 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: be another boost to sales. But at this point his 178 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: growth became a detriment his five billion francs a year 179 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: business and auto printed tickets were now viewed was illegal 180 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: gambling by the French government, Yes, since he was automatically 181 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: generating some of the tickets. I think my understanding is 182 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: that it then kind of got a little fuzzier in 183 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: terms of no, no, this isn't always a scientific process, 184 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: like people aren't always relying on their research. And lay 185 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: actually tried to negotiate a deal with the authorities where 186 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: the government would take control of parimutuel betting, but this 187 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: kind of fell on deaf ears. They were not willing 188 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: or ready to create a whole new sort of government 189 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: office to handle that, and he ended up going to 190 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: trial uh in eighteen seventy five for his illegal business. 191 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: And this trial did not go well. Par mutuel gambling 192 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: joined betting pools as an illegal enterprise and Ula was 193 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: sentenced to jail time of eighteen days. His whole betting 194 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: business was shut down. So after uh Ulla had you know, 195 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: gone to jail and served his time, which apparently was 196 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: very upsetting for him, as you can imagine, he really 197 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: felt like that was a mark of failure to some degree. 198 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: Uh He went back to his life, but he he 199 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: really wasn't beaten down by that incident. Uh He did 200 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: continue to have a hand in the racing and gambling 201 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: world even after his imprisonment in the legal areas of it, 202 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: but he primarily moved on to other money making enterprises. 203 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: Uh He apparently when he had been in London that 204 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: brief time during the political Timilton Paris, he had been 205 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: introduced to the theater and the idea of entertainment in 206 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: that arena, and so he turned his betting office that 207 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: he had had into a cafe in a theater, and 208 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: this actually kicked off a series of ventures in entertainment 209 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: that he uh established, one of which was called Lenuvo Cirque, 210 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: which actually featured circus shows during the winter, like in 211 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: cooler months, it was an indoor circus, and then in 212 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: warmer months it transitioned and became a pool and swimming center, 213 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: so it's kind of a multi use facility. But his 214 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: most famous entertainment and of her was the creation of 215 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: a venue that's still entertaining crowds today. So to set 216 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: the scene, in eighteen eighty nine, Paris was deep in 217 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: the Bellepoch, during which France was full of optimism. There 218 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: was so much growth in the areas of art and 219 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: science and at this point, the middle class began to 220 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: enjoy sort of the leisure activities that had once been 221 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: reserved exclusively for the wealthy, and as a consequence, the 222 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: entertainment industry really boomed. Cabarets became an ever more popular 223 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: form of entertainment, and they were popping up all over 224 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: the city. La chat Noir and Le Folle Bergere and 225 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: we're just two of the establishments that were attracting crowds 226 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: and making money. Yeah, he had really switched his sort 227 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: of focus as an entrepreneur over to entertainment at exactly 228 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: the right time. And as this entertainment industry grew, he 229 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: had become, you know, pretty experienced in opening and running 230 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: these sorts of venues. And he decided again in eighteen 231 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: eighty nine that he was going to partner with a 232 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: man named Charls Ziddler. And he was a showman who 233 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: would be able to run the day to day operations 234 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: of a dance hall and sort of bridge the gap 235 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: between the business side of it and the artists. And 236 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: if his name sounds familiar, by the way, Jim Broadbent's 237 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: character Harald Zidler in Boslerman's Mulin Rouge is based at 238 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: least partly on him, although there are some historians that 239 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: say that really Harold Zidler is a combo of Ulla 240 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: and Charles Zidler. The two of them bought this dilapidated 241 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: dance hall called the White Queen and it was a 242 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: mess with a crumbling for thode. They renovated the building. 243 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: They put a huge windmill on top and painted it 244 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: red and this of course became a Paris icon. Yeah, 245 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: it was an extremely ambitious plan for a really crappy 246 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: looking building. It would be like, We're gonna make a 247 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: fabulous palace out of this old shack. But it worked. Uh. 248 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: And although there were a lot of renovations kind of 249 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: constantly going on, and Ulan Ziddler really kind of shot 250 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: for the stars and all of their planning. Uh, they 251 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: weren't done with everything on time, but Lay was pretty 252 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: adamant that they stick to their schedule. So even though 253 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: there were still sort of transition renovations going on and 254 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: things were not complete, they opened the doors as scheduled 255 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: on October six of eighteen eighty nine, promptly at eight pm. 256 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: The Moulin Rouge drew crowds right out of the gate, 257 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: but Ulay and Zidler weren't content to simply coexist with 258 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: the other dance halls. They wanted to outdo them all, 259 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: so they started hiring the top acts away from other venues, 260 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: including Louise Webber, better known as La Gulu or the 261 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: Glutton because of her endless thirst for alcohol. Webber was 262 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: outrageous in every way, and during the Bellipop that was 263 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: a huge draw. And then they also bought the mammoth 264 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: wooden elephant from the n World's Fair and they moved 265 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: it into the garden which surrounded their dance hall, and 266 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: they built a stage inside the elephant that offered semi 267 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: private shows for men only, so it was a little 268 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: bit more adult in their So all of these famous 269 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: icons that we associate with Paris Uh and particularly the 270 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: Mulan Rouge, were really the ideas of Charles Didler and 271 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: Joseph Hule. The history of the Mulan Rouge is full 272 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: of stories and scandal and drama which could become podcasts 273 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: all on their own, But the important thing for the 274 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: scope of this episode is to note that Ull devoted 275 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: a great deal of time, money, and energy into making 276 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: it spectacular. In his eyes, he was making a theater 277 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: of the highest order, even if the acts were often 278 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: pretty raunchy. Uh. He likely never could have anticipated the 279 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: historical fame of the Mulan Rouge, but he was always 280 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: aiming as high as he could with it. Yeah, he 281 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: was sort of a man who um created success. So 282 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: not only had he revolutionized betting, but he really kind 283 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: of raised the bar in the entertainment industry and made 284 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: it about like always plussing it and you know, never 285 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: to be content. You could always be building more, you 286 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: could always be bringing in more audience, You could always 287 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: make the crowd. Morris Down did, So those sorts of 288 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: concepts really were kind of born with him, which I 289 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: think is fabulous. Uh. It is worth noting that while 290 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: Ulla had been focusing on entertainment from the eighteen seventies on, 291 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that he did still have a hand 292 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: in the legal aspects of betting, although to a much 293 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: lesser degree. But France did eventually implement a version of 294 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: Uley's peri mutuel betting system as sort of a government 295 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: run operation. And this was in eighteen eighty seven, and 296 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: Uley did get a piece of the action. Uh, the 297 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: government involved him and he worked with government agency that 298 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: was set up to run the system, so he kind 299 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: of advised and managed some aspects of it. And he 300 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: also patented a machine that could issue and keep track 301 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: of the sales of tickets, and sometimes you'll actually hear 302 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: the word pari mutuel used to refer to machines that 303 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: generate tickets in betting establishments. In October nine, Carmen Kalo, 304 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: who was ULI's wife since eighteen sixty nine, and he 305 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: moved out of their home next to the Jardin de Paris, 306 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: which encircled the Mulan Rouge, and into an apartment and 307 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: he lived there the rest of his life, although he 308 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: traveled to coach Zur in the winter months each year. 309 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: And La died on April nineteenth of nineteen twenty two, 310 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: and his grave in Perlches who several other topics people 311 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: that have been topics of podcasts that we talked about 312 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: are also buried there, and his grave bears the inscription 313 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:31,719 Speaker 1: since which translates to his intelligence equals his heart. So 314 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: it's interesting to me because that's one of those people 315 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: that again I think most French citizens would know about him, 316 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: and perhaps Spanish as well, since he was originally from Spain, 317 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: but we never hear about him here certainly, and I 318 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: would bet many other countries never hear his name. Yeah. Well, 319 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: and having even heard a lot about the Mulan Rouge 320 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: and having studied French, which I'm sure no one can 321 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: tell from the way I ever pronounced French words on 322 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: this podcast, that's it's not a name that I was 323 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 1: familiar with at all before doing this episode. No, and 324 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: you'll sometimes see, uh, like people pop up questions on 325 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: the Internet about whether or not Harold Ziddler was based 326 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: on a real person or if you ever was a 327 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: real person, and sometimes those will mention like the answers 328 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: to those will be like, no, there was a man 329 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: named Charles Zidler that he's sort of based on, but 330 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: they don't always mention ule, even though he was really 331 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: sort of the mastermind behind a lot of it. So 332 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: I thought it was time he gets a little moment 333 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: in the sun. Uh. And like I said, I would 334 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: love to do a whole long podcast on La Rouge 335 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: history because that is a rich and deep pool. Uh. 336 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: So one day it's on the list, and in the 337 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: meantime I have listener mail. This is one of my 338 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,680 Speaker 1: favorite kinds of listener mail listener mail about clothes. Uh, 339 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: it's from our listener, Laurie, and she says, dear Tracy 340 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: and Holly. Uh. She thinks us for the podcast, and 341 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: she says, I currently live in Hong Kong, where I 342 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: teach English and French to small kids, and my brain 343 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: is semi melted by both my audience and the temperature. 344 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: I have an hour long commute up and down, and 345 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: your podcast keeps me alert and informed. So thank you. 346 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: We are happy to do that for you, Laurie, and 347 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: she says, I've been meaning to write for a long time, 348 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: but your episode on Rose Belt Tom made me realize 349 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: I had no excuse not to anymore. I trained as 350 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: a museum conservator, and a couple of years ago I 351 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: had the chance to work on a dress that I'm 352 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: sure you would be interested in. She is absolutely correct, 353 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: by the way. Uh. She goes on to safe from 354 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: what we know, it was originally an early eighteenth century 355 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: French court dress in blue silk, entirely embroidered with flowers. 356 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: The original shape has meant to minimize the waist and 357 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: emphasize the hips which had pennie, which are the basket 358 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 1: type undergarments that made the hips wide. Uh. The the 359 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: whole thing weighs an absolute ton even without all the 360 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: jewels and the gold thread of a coronation gown. Because 361 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: of the amount and quality of fabric used, this dress 362 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: would have been worth a huge amount of money at 363 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: the time and was certainly an investment for a lady 364 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: of the French court. Usually, though these kinds of dresses 365 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: would have been recycled, the fabric would very likely have 366 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: been reused for a new dress. Trims and ribbons would 367 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: have been added to stick to fashion as much as 368 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: possible without having to buy an entirely new outfit. As 369 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: an aside, We talked about that a little bit in 370 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: the Rose Breton episode that part of her job as 371 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: a milliner was to kind of refit outfits for the 372 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: next season so that they could get a little style refresh. 373 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: Laura goes on to say, you will see in the 374 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: pictures which she sent this that the shape looks a 375 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: bit loose and some parts of the outfit look a 376 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: bit discolored. This dress was eventually used during the Victorian 377 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: era as a costume dress, but by a rather larger 378 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: lady than its original owner, so the waist had to 379 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: be loosened considerably in the skirt lengthened. The Victorian bits 380 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: were nowhere near as good in quality as the original 381 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: garment and discolored, while the blue silk looks just as 382 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: striking as when it was made. Though I feel rather 383 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: annoyed at the additions which don't do anything for the 384 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: dress and which we can't remove as they are historical repairs, 385 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: which is conservative jargon for but it's there. It's part 386 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: of the objects history and if I take it away, 387 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: I will take away part of the object's history. Uh. 388 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: I am very glad that the stress wasn't taken apart 389 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: or thrown away when French court fashion is no longer needed. 390 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: So thank you fat Victorian lady. And then I will Uh. 391 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: I'm not reading her whole thing because it's a bit lengthy. 392 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: She also goes on with a ps that I love, 393 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: which is we just got our annual passes to Disneyland, 394 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: Hong Kong, and though they have no haunted mansion, they 395 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: have something called Mystic Manner, which is based on early 396 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: designs for a museum of the supernatural. It finally happened, 397 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: and Danny Alfman composed the music as a museum person, 398 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: former cast member and Dannie Altman fanatic. That sounds like 399 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: a dream come true. Uh yeah, I've heard many times about, 400 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: particularly in the Victorian era, existing historical garments really got 401 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: used in all kinds of ways. And part of it 402 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: was just a costume ball popularity surge, and part of 403 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,479 Speaker 1: it was that Victorian era kind of went through this 404 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: thing where they were fascinated with history and other cultures 405 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: and kind of trying to integrate them a little bit 406 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: into their, uh, day to day lives. And so that's 407 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: why you'll see a lot of uh, you know, like 408 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: fabrics from the Orient making their way into your the 409 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: Orient as it was called in the Victorian era, making 410 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: their way into Victorian clothes. One interesting thing about these 411 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: types of gowns that she's talking about from the Rococo 412 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: area era is that they had like a lacing in 413 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: the back. Even though they usually buttoned or hooked down 414 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: the front, they had a lacing in the back so 415 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: you could have a little bit of ease and give 416 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: so that if the wearer, because they were very expensive, 417 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, lost weight or gained weight, they could still 418 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: keep the dress for quite a while. But apparently in 419 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: this case it transcended the ability of the dress to expand, 420 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: and they had to add in these additional pieces. The 421 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: pictures are absolutely beautiful and as firmistic manner. I'm very jealous, 422 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: but that was an awesome letter Laurie and I love 423 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: looking at those pictures. She even sent us beautiful pictures 424 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: of like the hem of the dress so we could 425 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: see where the wear and tear was and it's quite spectacular, 426 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: So thank you. UH. If you would like to write 427 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: to us and talk to us about historical clothes or 428 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: Disneyland or Disneyland, Hong Kong, or really anything that we've 429 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 1: talked about, our relates to things we've talked about, you 430 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: should do that at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. 431 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: You can also connect with us at Facebook dot com 432 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: slash missed in History, on Twitter at misst in history 433 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: at misston history dot combler dot com, and on pinterest 434 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: dot com slash missed in History. You can also make 435 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: your your way to our still fairly young website, which 436 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: is missed in History dot com, or you can find 437 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: all of our episodes and show notes and UH. If 438 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: you would like to learn more about what we've talked 439 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: about today, you can go to our parent page, which 440 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: is how stuff Works dot com and UH do a 441 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: search for the term gambling and you will turn up 442 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: two articles which struck me as funny because they list 443 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: one right after the other. One is ten quick ways 444 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: to make money and it mentions gambling is potential way, 445 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: and the other is ten ways people rack up debt 446 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: and also speak so gambling, so it's a double edged sword. 447 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: If you would like to learn more about that, or 448 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: just about anything we've talked about today or on other podcasts, 449 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: you can research that at our website, which is how 450 00:23:53,520 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com, Moral, this, and thousands of other 451 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: topics because the housetop works dot com. MMM