WEBVTT - Omega Advisors Leon Cooperman: Masters in Business (Audio) 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:07.560 This is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholds on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.920 This week on the podcast, we have a very special guest. 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:14.000 And I know you folks are tired of hearing me 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.520 say that, but we do. We have a very special guest, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.840 Leon Cooperman. He is the founder and chief investment officer 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.240 of Omega Advisors. They are a hedge fund that runs 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:30.320 about nine point three billion dollars. His track record is 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:34.440 actually quite fantastic. He's outperformed the S and P five 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.239 hundred on an annualized basis of about four hundred and 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:44.280 fifty basis points. His tax advantage fund has outperformed the 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:48.879 Broad Index a thousand basis points. Uh. He is a 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:53.360 legend on Wall Street. He began his career at Goldman Sachs, 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.920 where he ran eventually ran the research department. I I 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.200 rated just number one. There are a few people who 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:06.039 are more fascinating and more knowledgeable about what it's like 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:11.000 to run money, to do research, to execute a portfolio 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:18.520 then Lee Cooperman. Very accessible, very humble, a tremendous, tremendous 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.360 um philanthropist, has committed to giving away a lot of 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.720 his money. I can't begin to tell you enough of 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.200 of how enjoyable our conversation was and what a pleasure 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.840 it was to sit down with him for for nearly 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.720 two hours. He he was scheduled to leave at one thirty, 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.280 and he waved me off. He just you know, kept 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:43.399 going and understood that this was really a deep dive 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:45.360 and didn't want to cut it short because he had 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.040 to be somewhere else. So, with no further ado from me, 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:56.680 here is my conversation with Leon Cooperman. This is Masters 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:01.120 in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. My very 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:05.120 special guest today, Lee Cooperman. You may or may not 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.120 have heard of him. Lee was born in the bronx 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.680 of immigrant parents. Your your whole curriculum vitae is gonna 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:13.400 take me ten minutes to read, so I'm just gonna 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.200 do the short version. Columbia Business School, nineteen sixty nine. 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.000 You've got an m b A straight to Goldman Sachs, 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:24.320 where you spent twenty two years in the Investment Research department, 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.880 eventually becoming co chairman of the Investment Policy Committee and 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.200 chairman of the Stock Selection Committee. You were voted onto 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:37.200 Institutional Investors All America Research team for Portfolio Strategy. You 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:42.760 ranked first in portfolio strategy from nineteen seventy seven to five. 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:49.240 You eventually set up Goldman Sachs is Asset Management division 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:54.519 and then leave to launch Omega Advisors, where your flagship 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:59.799 overseas fund has averaged fourteen point six percent from two 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:04.880 to and that's about fift better than the benchmark SMP 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:09.360 five hundred. Lee Cooperman, welcome to Bloomberg NICs to be 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.320 with you. And for those of you folks who may 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.960 not be familiar with either Guldman Sachs or Omega Advisors, 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:20.720 you're probably listening to the wrong radio station. So let's 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.840 jump right into your a little bit of your background. 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.120 What did you do before you found your way to 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.799 Wall Street. Well, I'm kind of like in a Ratio 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:34.280 Alger story, and I say this with great humility. I've 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:37.320 been very lucky in life. Basically, I was born in 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.360 the South Bronx, first generation of my family to get 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.360 a born in America, first generation my family get a 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.200 college degree. I went to public school in the Bronx 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.000 PS seventy five. I went to high school in the 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.360 Bronx and Morris High School. I went to college in 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.920 the Bronx Uh, West Bronx. My both of my grade 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.800 school and my high school was in the East Bronx. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.520 I went west, follow the device of horst Reeley and 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.200 I went to the West young Man, go West, young Man. 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.880 I went to a Hunter College, part of the City 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:08.440 University of New York. UM, graduated in nineteen sixty four. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.840 Went to work for Xerox Corporation up in Rochester. Well, 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:14.600 let me stop you right there. From Hunter to Xerox. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.200 What did you do on at Xerox? Well, it was 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:18.960 very interesting. I don't know how much time we have. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.120 I tend to be I have all day. You're the 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.599 one with Well, basically, um, it's very interesting. You know. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:31.400 Part of my success in life I attribute to luck. Uh, 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.800 certain part of education hard work. By the way, that's 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:38.000 a theme that every person who's done an interview with 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.520 me has more or less said, Well, you know, I 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:42.719 worked hard, but I also got really lucky. Well, I 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:44.960 would say that you're not realistic if you don't think 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.760 luck plays a part in the one success. And I 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.200 like to think I'm above all. I'm realistic and self 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:55.840 effacing and have humility. Uh. But basically it's a little 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.039 bit of a story to get to answer your question 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.680 back in the sixty and still maybe the case of 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.840 day that if you finished your major and minor in 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.600 three years, you could count in your first year of 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.599 dental or medical school towards your fourth year of college 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.560 you get a separate degree. I actually did something similar 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.000 with law school. I applied part of law school towards 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.000 my undergraduate So you know, basically, in the summer of 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.400 nineteen sixty three, I toiled very hard in the University 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.480 of Pennsylvania laboratories. I took a course in physical chemistry 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.240 to finish you off my major. My major was chemistry, 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.360 my mind was math and physics. And I enrolled in 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.480 the University of Pennsylvania Dental School. And after eight days 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.120 I wondered if I was making the right decision. And 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.680 so you know, part of your life, not only his luck, 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.039 is intuition and making the right decision. That that was 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:49.840 a good instinct. I cannot picture you as all you know, 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.080 instead of my hand in their mouths and I have 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.320 my hand in their pockets, I guess you could say 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.440 that basically I went. It was a very traumatic period 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:58.880 of my life. I went to the dean of the 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:01.719 dental school and I said, I would like to return 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.400 to my undergraduate school, finish you off my fourth year, 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.080 unencumbered by any decision, and then in the fullness of time, 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.320 making decision to either return to dental school or whatever. 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.320 And he put me on a real guilt trip, uh, 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.279 in the sense that he said, you deprived the hundred 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.200 first applicant of a dental school education. How can you 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:24.040 decide after eight days? And so I returned to undergraduate school. 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.560 The only person that really understood the import of my 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.680 decision and difficulty was a dean of Hunter College at 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.480 the time. His name was Glen T. Nigrin. I just 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.760 noticed an obituary of several years ago where he passed away, 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:37.880 and he said, boy, this must have been a tough decision. 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.480 Of course, you could matriculate back into a Hunter. And 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.240 I went back to Hunter, at which point I had 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:47.040 all elective is my major minor was completed. So I 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.440 took ten courses in economics, got ten a's, and I 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.160 had the unusual situation of graduating as a major in chemistry, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:58.000 monor math and physics, but honors in economics. And I 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.240 was interviewing in the ninth seen hundred and I guess 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.120 sixty three yearly sixty four for a job. Xerox Corporation 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.000 came to the campus and I was lucky enough to 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.360 get an invite back to Rochester to meet with other 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.800 people for a second, you know, interview, and I went 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:17.960 up getting the best job warfer if anyone that cite 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.840 the university. They offered me, I think was seventy five 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:23.360 hundred or seven thousand dollars a year, which I accepted, 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.800 and I started working there in August of nineteen four, 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.240 and they really, an effect, did not make a full 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.239 disclosure to me about the job. It's what they didn't 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.280 tell me when I started, when they offered me the job. 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.040 Is a month later they were going to a twenty 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.160 four hour work week, meaning one week I'd have to 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.000 work eight in the morning to four in the afternoon, 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.000 the next week four in the afternoon to midnight, three 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:50.360 three shifts a day um. And so I was enrolled 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.400 in the University of Rochester Graduate School of Business at night, 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.520 working towards an m b A. But the weeks that 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.480 I was in the four in the afternoon to midnight shift, 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.360 I'd have to find somebody else to shift off with 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.200 work sixteen hours go to school, work sixteen hours, go 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.800 to school. And I had had a lovely life a 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:07.920 wife at that time, and he was still a lovely wife. 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.360 She's married fifty one years. And she said, look, I'm 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:12.960 happy to work if you want to go to school 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:15.400 full time. And I took leave of absence and I 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.320 went to Columbia University Graduate School of Business in New 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.800 York on a trimester basis sixty months, got my m 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.560 b A interviewed, and I was lucky enough to get 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.600 a job off of Goldman Sachs and who entered Wall Street. 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.120 Uh via my MBA from Columbia to Goldman Sax. I'm 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.040 Barry Ritults. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.840 Radio and my very special guest today, Lee Cooperman. He 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.520 is the founder of Omega Advisors. Prior to that, he 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.319 spent twenty three years in in the investment research department 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.160 at Goldman Sacks. Let's let's talk a little bit about 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:52.200 um Goldman Sacks. You went right out of Columbia where 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.760 you got your m b A into not the sexier 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.400 investment banking half that I think Goldman at the time 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.120 was better owned for, but into research. What was your 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:08.280 thought process. What attracted you to that? I basically had 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:13.960 a strong interest in investing through investment research would be 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:19.400 a good foundation for pursuing career in investing, and Columbia 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.800 was known as a deep value school. That was the 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.240 training you had. The professor had the greatest influence to 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.000 me was Professor Roger Murray, who was an adjunct professor 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.280 of business at Columbia. His day job was being the 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.640 chief investment officer of College Retirement Equities Fund, and he 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.000 taught at Columbia. He also was an author of one 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.720 of the follow up editions of security analysis, the original 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:47.280 publication four by Graham and Dodd, and he honed my interest. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.760 He was a fabulous professor, a real practitioner of his profession, 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:57.040 and one that was a great inspiration. But you know, um, 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.480 it was a great experience. I never I like. I 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.480 like to say I like the higher PhDs in my business. Uh, 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.000 but my PhDs are poor, hungry and driven. Uh. Isn't that? 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.679 Isn't that something that Mario Gabelli used to say all 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.080 the time. He says it all the time. We're great friends. 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:13.400 You know. One of the great things that came out 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.360 of Columbia Business school, was married when I met, and 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.240 we remained close friends for fifty years. You know, it 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.120 was the Columbia experience that got me the entry card 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.600 into Wall Street. I wouldn't say it's right, but the 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:26.920 odds or I could not have gotten into Wall Street 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:32.319 directly from Hunter College into an investment position at Goldman, 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.640 But part of this, like I said earlier, horatial outer story. 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.080 You know, I um, when I went to Columbia Business School, 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.880 I had a six month old child, I had National 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:47.200 Defense Education Act student loan to repay, had no money 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:49.120 in the bank, and had to get onto making a living. 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:51.920 So I got my degree on January thirty one of 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.960 nineteen sixty seven, and the very next day, February one 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.840 to sixty seven, I started my close to year career 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.680 at Goldman Sex. So you were in the research department. 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:03.280 Let me let me go over some of the stats 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.240 from that, because they're really so impressive. You voted on 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.840 to the All American Research team. You were the number 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:14.960 one portfolio strategist according to Investor Institutional Investor from nineteen 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.280 seventy seven to ninety five. That that's a heck of 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.760 a good run. And then after all those years in 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.120 the research department you helped build Goman Sacks Asset Manager. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.080 I actually started it, but i'd say first in the 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.600 research department. Uh, not not being self serving. I had 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.960 two roles, and I started at as an analyst in 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.199 the retail business, and then the mid seventies I became 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:41.040 co directive Research. In nineteen seventies six, I was named 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.320 partner in charge of Research. I essentially had two roles 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.440 in Goldman Research. One I would call an orchestra leader, 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.839 I ran the research department, and the other, call a solo, 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.760 was to my role as chairman of the Investment Policy Committee, 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.880 helping set investment policy and marketing that investment policy at 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:01.040 investing clients. And uh, please used to say again, not 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.640 big self serving, because it was a real team effort. 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.760 But when I took over the research department at Goldman, 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.079 we were basically unranked. And when I left, it's a 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.960 polite way to say dead last, No, not that last, 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.000 but we were We were not ranked in the top 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.559 we were not reviewed as a research firm. And when 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.840 I left the research department in nine to start Goldman 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:25.080 Sacks Asset Management, Goldman Sacks Research was number one institutional 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.920 investor America team number one in Charlie Yellis's Greenwich Research 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.640 survey and number one in financial world, which doesn't exist anymore. 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.240 The first to still exists in terms of measuring people's effecting. 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.520 This now to show you how a little influence I say, 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.559 this is not this is that video They had a 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.439 little influence I had at Goldman and I said this 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.400 had a big smile. I was well regarded. Uh. For 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:47.600 a decade, I was telling Goldman Sacks, you're making a 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.280 mistake by not being in the asset managing business. I was. 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.880 I was shocked when I was reading your background and 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.960 I'm like, wait, Goldman Sacks didn't have an asset management 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:01.720 division before. Something it made it's hard to imagine teen 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.760 ninety one. Actually, and for deckcarese telling the firm you're 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.120 making a mistake by not being an asset management and 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.080 for decade they said, Lee, you don't get it that 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.320 we are of the belief that brokers should do brokerage, 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.880 money manage and do money management. Don't compete with your customer, 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.400 Goldman Sachs typical customer at that time was an institutional investor. 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.240 And so I said, well, look look around your Mary 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:27.640 Lynchest Management, uh CSFPST Management, the Kid I Be Buddies 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.040 division is called Webster att Management. Everybody was getting into 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.400 the business set. One firm who was Goldman's art trading rival, 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.760 that was Solomon Brothers. And then one morning Solomon comes 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.679 out and says, we're pleased to announce that Bob Solomon Jr. 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.240 Will be leaving the research department to start Salmon Brothers 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:47.160 asset Management. And Bob Rubin and Steve Friedman, who were 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:48.760 then co heads of the firm, came to me and said, 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.560 you know, we made a mistake. You were right. You 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.400 were right when you leave research and do for us 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.320 to invest in management what you did for us in research. 0:13:56.960 --> 0:13:59.640 And so after about a year or so doing this, 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:01.600 because aim very clear that you know, I had to 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.880 be on the road constantly to innovate new products to generally, 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.120 you know, capture new assets. And I really wanted to 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.720 visit companies and find outstanding managements make out standing investments. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.840 And I have great respect for Goldman. I owe a 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.480 lot to my success at Goldmen. I started with nothing. 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.280 I left Goldman very wealthy. Man. I told him I 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.880 really wanted to retire ephemistically, I worked hard and now 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:25.680 that I worked at Goldman, I worked very hard at Goldman, 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.320 and I wanted to basically start a hedge fund. And 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.720 I believe in no blessed Oblieg and I told him, 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.280 you know, we were still a private partnership UM at 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.480 the time. And uh, I said, you know, if you 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.080 think my having a hedge funds of violation might noncompete, 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:39.720 you know, I wouldn't do it. And they said, no, 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.600 we we can't possibly say that because you know, we 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.360 don't want to have a hedge fund. And so I 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.000 started Omega, and uh it became something I didn't plan. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.120 To be honest with you, Uh, this is not a 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.720 TV but I'm I'm you have a big smile on 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.160 your face. But I basically also a larger than average guy. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.680 And I said, you know, I'm gonna have a small business. Uh, 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.840 and succeed at the only thing that's alluded me all 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.560 my life. Let's get to a normal size is and 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:06.520 lose some weight. And I have a gym in the 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.600 office and work out and you know, manage a few 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.280 hundred million dollars and down to a normal size. Take 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.080 it easy a way, well, no work, but basically get 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.880 to a normal size, have a more balanced life. And uh, 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.400 what happened is you to my first year, we're up 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.640 about twenty three or twice with the market, and in 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.640 ninety three had about a year I was up like 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:31.440 sevent because we correctly called a big decline interest rates globally, 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.880 and the firm really starts to grow quite dramatically in size. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.720 Uh so, Um, we've gone from the start up with 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.840 a few hundred million to nine and a half billion. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.200 But it's been a great run. And uh, I love 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.520 what I do, and I do a lot of talks 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.960 to meetings with youngsters. They try to give them career guidance. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.040 I tell him, you know, follow the advice of Henry Ford. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:53.840 The best way to make money is not to think 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.160 about making money. Another theme is Warren Buffers is going 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.320 to work with somebody you respected admire, tap dance to 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.560 work and everything will take care of itself. And what 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:03.440 I say basically is do what you love, love what 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:04.640 you do. If you do what you love me you 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:06.720 love what you do. With a little bit of luck, 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.760 you're a bound to be successful. And that's kind of 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.560 where I'm at. I mean, I love what I do. 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.160 I'm Barry rid Hults. You're listening to Masters in Business 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.200 on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is Lee Cooperman. 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:21.360 He is the founder of Omega Advisors and basically spent 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.960 the first twenty five or so years of his career 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:29.720 at Goldman Sachs as the UH director of the Investment Department, 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.440 and he created and helped build the asset Management Department. 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.280 Let's talk a little bit about philanthropy. League you Um, 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.640 you said earlier, you're the son of immigrants from the 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.840 South Bronx. Um, did you ever imagine when you were 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.920 going to school and in the Bronx you would grow 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:52.680 up to become a philanthropist? Never? Never, never, never? What 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:57.000 what is that like? Coming and from from self described 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.240 very humble roots. There's there's a question. We have a 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.760 mutual friend, Doug Cass and Doug said to ask you 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:09.800 about the plumbers wrench that you sometimes carry around. Uh. 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.160 Doug's very kind towards me, very complimentary, and I appreciate Doug, 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.600 and Doug's a bright fellow. Look, if you step back 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.040 and think about it, there's only four things you could 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:23.640 do with money. You could consume it on personal expenditures 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.199 and thankf I've been in a business that generates a 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.000 lot of income, and if you if I don't collect art, 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.119 I can't consume my wealth. And I've never seen the 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.080 value proposition art and I really obviously missed a huge 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.040 opportunity well the past a couple of decades. Yeah, okay, 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.320 but so you could consume your well the second as 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.560 you can give it to your children. Okay, And I'll 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.560 take these one of the time after I mentioned all four. 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:48.479 The third is you can give it to the government 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.680 the form of taxation, or the fourth as you can 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.800 recycle it back into society. Okay. So on the first one, 0:17:55.520 --> 0:18:00.240 I'm not a consumer. I tend to basically work very hard, 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.800 work very long hours. I have a very purposeful wife, 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.440 married fifty one year. She has been an educator for 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.040 thirty five years, working with learning to say ablell neurologically 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:11.040 impaired children. And so she's not a consumer because she's 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.600 was working most of her adult life. Um, so I 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:16.159 can't consume it. You know, you could go out and 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.480 if you if you if you're not collector you don't 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.280 have enough money no matter you know what you make, 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.280 because you could buy a Picasso with the other day 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.960 for a hundred nine million or whatever. So I'm not 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.960 a consumer. Second, I believe in leaving my kids a 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:30.880 rational or sum of money. Do not want to take 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.320 away from them the incentive to self achieve. Okay. The 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.240 third is who wants to give it the government? If 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.120 you don't have to give it the government. Fourth, I've 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.320 made the determination. My family is going along with the 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.720 determination to take the vest bulk of my money and 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:47.639 return into society to try and create equal opportunity for 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:52.200 these splendid youngsters that don't have the opportunities today that 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:55.080 I enjoyed. You know. So let's let's start with the pledge. 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.320 You had a dinner with um a number of people, 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.360 and you saw in the pledge where you essentially committed 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:05.080 to giving away the majority. I think that the pledge 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:06.760 says you're a get away at least half, and I 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.760 intend to give away all my money. Was I given 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.520 my children their inheritance about three or four years ago 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.040 in advance in events. Here's the money. Trying not to 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.880 do it well. I have two kids. One's a fabulous 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.760 money manager. I'm very proud of his accomplishments. Also runs 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:24.119 run a hedge fund, and he's very very smart. And 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:25.919 then I have another son who was equally smart up 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:27.760 in a different field. He has a PhD degree and 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:33.320 environmental scientist work for conservation to national on environmental issues. Uh. 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:37.440 And so I gave them their inheritance and what's left over. Basically, 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.920 my game plan is to give away half during my 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.560 lifetime to organizations that have made a difference to my 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.480 family in our lifetime, and the other half on to 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.840 give to a foundation where my children, grandchildren, daughter in 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.920 laws could periodically get together and give away the money 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.600 to worthy organization. So let's talk about some of the organizations. Well, 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:57.679 let me first, you know say this that you know 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:00.639 the I said this to warm buffet. If you're speaking 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.560 to people of great wealth, asking for half is not 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:08.360 asking for enough. But nor is that request original hundred 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.760 Andrew Carnegie said, he who dies rich dies disgraced. In 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.359 ninety Winston Churchill said you make a living by what 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.040 you get, you make a life by what you give. 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.320 In sixty one, when President Kennedy was inaugurated, he said, 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:21.880 if I we call it, Craig, that's not what your 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:23.240 country can do for you. Ask what you can do 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:27.080 for your country or something alone and then I told Warren, 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.040 I said, I'm Jewish, and he said that Thomas your 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.720 measurement not by what he has, but what he gives. So, um, 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:37.159 you know, I buy into the idea of philanthropic activity. 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.800 And you know, the large bulk of my giving thus 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.640 far has been to organizations that have made a difference 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.000 to me in my lifetime. So you know, a Hunter College. 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.760 I got a first class education from the University of 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.639 New York for twenty four dollars a semester. I know, 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:53.679 did I get a first class education? But I got 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.120 a terrific wife. So we've given them a very large 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:00.480 amount of money, both for a scholarship and uh and 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:02.640 financial aid for when I went to school. I mentioned 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.960 twenty four hour semester. I think the kids today like 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.080 six thousand dollars semester. That's cheap compared to the private school. 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.800 It is, but these kids have trouble coming up with 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.680 that kind of money. So providing financial aid to help 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.440 giving them equal opportunity. Then, um, I have a deader 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:20.679 gratitude to Columbia of opening the door to my career 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:22.640 in Wall Street. And I've given them a doubt a chair. 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.159