1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

3
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

4
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,840
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

5
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,720
Speaker 2: And Welcome to the Thursday edition of Bloomberg Sound On.

6
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,799
Speaker 2: It's Little Friday. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. Glad you

7
00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,479
Speaker 2: joined us this day after the big Fed decision, the

8
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,480
Speaker 2: hawkish skip that seems to be getting a yawn today

9
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 2: on Wall Street chair J Powell.

10
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 3: In May, the twelve month change in the consumer Price

11
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,479
Speaker 3: Index came in at four percent, and the change in

12
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,599
Speaker 3: the core core CPI was five point three percent. Inflation

13
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 3: has moderated somewhat since the middle of last year. Nonetheless,

14
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,640
Speaker 3: inflation pressures continue to run high, and the process of

15
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 3: getting inflation back down to two percent as a long

16
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:50,040
Speaker 3: way to go.

17
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 2: The long way to go, says J. Powell, and joining

18
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,320
Speaker 2: us to get things rolling today his take on this

19
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,200
Speaker 2: because he was in the room for that conversation posing

20
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,040
Speaker 2: questions to the chairs. Michael mc key, of course, Bloomberg

21
00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,479
Speaker 2: Economics Editor. It's great to see Michael. We've survived another

22
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 2: here we got our hawkish skip, which reminds me of

23
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 2: the pinkish hue on Seinfeld. God how Washington comes up

24
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 2: with this stuff. But a day later here Wall Street

25
00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,759
Speaker 2: still whistling passed the graveyard, just like it did essentially

26
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 2: through the debt ceiling fiasco. They just don't seem to

27
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,080
Speaker 2: believe what j. Powell is telling them.

28
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,480
Speaker 4: Well, they bought part of the argument, and that is

29
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 4: that they're not going to cut rates this year, okay,

30
00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,920
Speaker 4: and so that's sort of a victory for the Fed,

31
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 4: and then it keeps financial conditions a little tighter than

32
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 4: they otherwise might have been. But it seems what happened

33
00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,480
Speaker 4: is markets are forward looking and they're discounting six months

34
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 4: in advance. Well, in six months, the Fed says it's

35
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 4: going to be cutting rates, so they're looking past the

36
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 4: possibility of these additional rate hikes to twenty twenty four,

37
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 4: when rates will theoretically be going down. And so the

38
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,560
Speaker 4: initial knee jerk reaction, once people thought about it, has

39
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 4: sort of been wiped away.

40
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because this is a market that has

41
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,040
Speaker 2: been betting on rate cuts, to your point, but also

42
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 2: Wall Street seems to think there's a recession coming maybe not.

43
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,920
Speaker 2: I can't figure this out because every major economist seems

44
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:12,760
Speaker 2: to have a recession in the cards at some point

45
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 2: in the second half of this year the first half

46
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,680
Speaker 2: of next year. But we're setting new highs while we're

47
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:17,920
Speaker 2: at it.

48
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's been a line going around saying that economists

49
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,959
Speaker 4: have seen a recession coming for eighteen months, sometime in

50
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,840
Speaker 4: the next three months, and so sometime in the next

51
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 4: three months is still where we are.

52
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,840
Speaker 2: So what do you tell our listeners who hear this

53
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 2: stuff they read it on the terminal that you know,

54
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 2: these big firms are coming out very smart people smarter

55
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,000
Speaker 2: than we are, with forecasts that just aren't coming true.

56
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:43,640
Speaker 2: Michael McKee, you've seen this happen before.

57
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,240
Speaker 4: Well, they're using models, and the models are based on

58
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,400
Speaker 4: past experience, and there's not a lot of experience from

59
00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 4: this pandemic. Not just the pandemic and what it did

60
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,399
Speaker 4: to supply chains and things like that, but the extraordinary

61
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,400
Speaker 4: stimulus we had. What that means, how fast people spend

62
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 4: it down, et cetera. So there are a lot of

63
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,840
Speaker 4: moving parts and it's very hard to forecast what's going

64
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 4: to happen. If you step back and take a sort

65
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 4: of big picture. Look, what you're seeing is an economy

66
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,160
Speaker 4: that is slowing but not falling off a cliff. It's

67
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:19,160
Speaker 4: not diving. It's not heading into recession yet if it

68
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,520
Speaker 4: is going to at all, but it is definitely slower

69
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 4: than it was. A job creation, while still high, is slower.

70
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,800
Speaker 4: Wages are still growing, but they're growing at a slower pace.

71
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,040
Speaker 4: We saw a nice retail sales.

72
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,239
Speaker 2: Report today that was the latest click.

73
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 4: Well, you know, the retail sales. The good news within

74
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,120
Speaker 4: it is that every category pretty much except gasoline, rose,

75
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,360
Speaker 4: but they didn't rise by as much as they have

76
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 4: been rising. So people are still spending, they're just not

77
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 4: spending as much, and so the economy continues to putter along.

78
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,200
Speaker 2: An unexpected increase. Though it's just another data point confounding

79
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,280
Speaker 2: the economists who seem to think that we're in some

80
00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,280
Speaker 2: kind of trouble later. But my goodness, if retail sales

81
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 2: of consumer spending stays strong like that, the job market

82
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 2: hangs in there. Maybe j Powell has orchestrated the soft landing.

83
00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,080
Speaker 4: Well, you know, if I were Jay Powell, I would

84
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 4: say that right now, because you don't know what's going

85
00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 4: to happen six months from now. At the moment, after

86
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 4: five hundred basis points of tightening, you know, the economy

87
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,520
Speaker 4: is in what you would call a soft landing. Now

88
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 4: the question is the backup of rating increases that have

89
00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,280
Speaker 4: yet to hit the economy. Are they going to hit

90
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 4: it hard? Are we're going to continue to go down?

91
00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 4: And will they actually need to raise rates another fifty

92
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 4: basis points or are they just giving themselves some wiggle

93
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,839
Speaker 4: room all to be determined, which I know people on

94
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 4: Wall Street hate because they want to be exactly They

95
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,680
Speaker 4: want the Fed to say, this is what we're doing

96
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 4: and this is when we're doing it. But we just

97
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 4: don't know at this point.

98
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,440
Speaker 2: We'll learn a lot more in the next I guess

99
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,200
Speaker 2: two months that next CPI report will be even more

100
00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,719
Speaker 2: important than the last. I suppose great to see you, Michael.

101
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 5: Think.

102
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure to have Michael McKee with us in Washington,

103
00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,919
Speaker 2: d C. Down this week for the Fed meeting. Bloomberg

104
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,680
Speaker 2: Economics Editor, I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. As we promised,

105
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 2: the Senator from Louisiana is with us to jump in

106
00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,839
Speaker 2: on this conversation and tackle a couple of other issues.

107
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,559
Speaker 2: Senator Bill Cassidy. We welcome you back to Bloomberg Radio.

108
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 2: It's great to have you, sir, and I want of

109
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 2: your thoughts on this. I know that you're you're a doctor,

110
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 2: not an economist. I feel like I'm on Star Trek now.

111
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,599
Speaker 2: But but you, of course have a very good sense

112
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,600
Speaker 2: of the cross currents in our economy. Now, is this

113
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:24,960
Speaker 2: the soft landing?

114
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:26,480
Speaker 6: Oh?

115
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 7: I think, man, if you can predict that, go to

116
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 7: the track and pick the next door.

117
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,920
Speaker 2: But we're in it now, Senator. Does it feel like that,

118
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,039
Speaker 2: actually that we might avoid the worst that many people

119
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 2: were fearing on Wall Street?

120
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,839
Speaker 7: I actually know we have not yet finished seeing the

121
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,279
Speaker 7: fallout of the depression that has been facing us. I

122
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 7: just ask a very knowledgeable friend about the the problems

123
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,360
Speaker 7: with property and casualty insurance in which major insurers are

124
00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 7: pulling out of the state of California, out of the

125
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,640
Speaker 7: state Louisiana and other and I can keep going. And

126
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,359
Speaker 7: my friend says that the cost to repair anything is

127
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 7: going up thirty percent, so therefore they have to increase

128
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,159
Speaker 7: premiums by thirty percent, but also have to buy thirty

129
00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 7: percent more reinsurance. But since reinsurers are required to hold

130
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 7: most of their money in bonds, and the bonds they

131
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,000
Speaker 7: hold are yielding less than the rate of inflation, then

132
00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,600
Speaker 7: they're having to absorb this and they're getting caught both ways. Now,

133
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,640
Speaker 7: if you cannot, if you're paying far more for your

134
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 7: property and casually insurance or can't get it, what does

135
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,400
Speaker 7: that do to your ability to sell your house, to

136
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,200
Speaker 7: buy a new house, to refinancial mortgage. I don't yet

137
00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,840
Speaker 7: think we've seen the permutations of what this inflation has

138
00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 7: done to our economy, and I think until we call

139
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 7: it a soft landing, we have to have a sense

140
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 7: of how that entirely plays out well.

141
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 2: And that speaks to the work that's left to be

142
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,520
Speaker 2: done here. I mean, the FED message yesterday is that

143
00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,560
Speaker 2: there's a lot more wood to chop here. We're not

144
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 2: done yet, and as Michael McKee just said, they could

145
00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 2: be just buying themselves from time some time, maybe we

146
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 2: do see the lagging effect start to kick in now.

147
00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 2: But do you worry about the FED continuing to hike?

148
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,760
Speaker 2: Without having an answer to that question.

149
00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 7: I do this, but the but the administration continues to

150
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:25,240
Speaker 7: attempt to pump more money into the economy. For example,

151
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:31,559
Speaker 7: the student loan pause adds about five billion dollars a month,

152
00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 7: five billion a month to kind of the excess capital

153
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 7: in our buying power. Now, of course, the debt cealing

154
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 7: deal theoretically has ended that, but the administration is going

155
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,800
Speaker 7: to begin the end September first, and there's press reports

156
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,520
Speaker 7: that they may give a six month to twelve month

157
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 7: grace period for people to adapt to it. Now, okay,

158
00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 7: twelve month grace period starting in September. Now we're talking

159
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,720
Speaker 7: about roughly fourteen or fifteen times five billion. That's that

160
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 7: much more money that they're pumping into the economy. The

161
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,200
Speaker 7: Fed is just chasing all the money that's being pumped in.

162
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,280
Speaker 7: The Biden inflation is it's almost like they have a

163
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,560
Speaker 7: policy to increase to increase the inflation rate.

164
00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,280
Speaker 2: There's so much I want to ask you about here,

165
00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 2: and I have to start with because you just pointed

166
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 2: to it, student loan, student debt. You're up at the

167
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,960
Speaker 2: College Transparency Act, remembering that Joe Biden, of course wanted

168
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,600
Speaker 2: to forgive student debt. And I'll bring people back just

169
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,080
Speaker 2: a few months when this was announced.

170
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 8: Here's the authority Congress granted the Department of Education. We

171
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 8: will forgive ten thousand dollars in outstanding federal student loans.

172
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 8: In addition, students who come from low income families which

173
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,000
Speaker 8: allowed them to qualify to receive a PEL grant will

174
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,320
Speaker 8: have their debt reduced twenty thousand dollars.

175
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,720
Speaker 2: So this has been up and down here, tied up

176
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,800
Speaker 2: in courts and will likely be will come out in

177
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 2: a Supreme Court decision. Your College Transparency Act takes a

178
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,440
Speaker 2: very different approach, Senator, How does it work?

179
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, so, first we have to say that the president's

180
00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,760
Speaker 7: so called forgiveness merely transfers the debt to other taxpayers,

181
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,080
Speaker 7: those who never took a loan, those who paid their

182
00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,199
Speaker 7: loan back, those who struggled to pay the loan back,

183
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,400
Speaker 7: but did it anyway, This transfer of responsibility to them,

184
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 7: but it doesn't fix the underlying problem. A Committee for

185
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 7: a Responsible Federal Budget says, in five years, we'll be

186
00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,160
Speaker 7: back exactly where we were because the Biden plan does

187
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 7: not fix the underlying problem. It just kind of attempts

188
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,920
Speaker 7: to raise the board. What our plan does, which is bipartisan.

189
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 7: Elizabeth Warren is my ghost sponsor. Is it says, okay,

190
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,320
Speaker 7: whatever you look like, you look in the mirror, whatever

191
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,680
Speaker 7: you look like you're a black male, you're a white,

192
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,480
Speaker 7: you're a Hispanic female, you name it. You look in

193
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,920
Speaker 7: the mirror. I'm going to go to a university. I

194
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,560
Speaker 7: can go online. If I enroll in this curriculum at

195
00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:02,840
Speaker 7: this university, what's my likely of graduating? And how much

196
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,600
Speaker 7: money am I going at the borrows starting off? Wherever

197
00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,160
Speaker 7: I start off financially? And what am I going to

198
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,200
Speaker 7: earn when I get out? Now, by the way, some

199
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 7: universities do a fantastic job of making sure that kids

200
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 7: from all backgrounds graduate in the curriculum in which they

201
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 7: originally enroll. Some do not. We should let the person know,

202
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 7: she and her family know what that anticipatory record is, and,

203
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,200
Speaker 7: by the way, how much they're going to earn and

204
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,560
Speaker 7: how much they owe. So we're trying to correct the

205
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,640
Speaker 7: underlying problem, which is a symmetry of information which leaves

206
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,960
Speaker 7: the prospective student at a tremendous disadvantage.

207
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 2: How does a Republican senator from Louisiana end up in

208
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 2: the same room as Elizabeth Warren?

209
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,240
Speaker 7: This, if you think about it, is about transparency and

210
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 7: about addressing of market failure. John Cornyn from Texas is

211
00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:58,840
Speaker 7: one of our co sponsors. I have to get who

212
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,559
Speaker 7: our Democrats are. But if you think about that policy,

213
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 7: there is nothing partisan about it. It's what each of

214
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,240
Speaker 7: us would want one of our children to know before

215
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,320
Speaker 7: our child makes a decision as to what university to attend.

216
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,360
Speaker 7: And I think that there is a misnomer that everything

217
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 7: out there has to be seen through a partisan lens.

218
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 7: I only mentioned Elizabeth to say that it enjoys.

219
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,920
Speaker 2: Broad That says a lot, Yeah.

220
00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 7: Very conservative liberal support to say this is not a

221
00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 7: partisan issue. It is something that we have to address

222
00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,599
Speaker 7: if we're going to fix the underlying Prouser.

223
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 2: Sure it would also indicate that you could get this

224
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,000
Speaker 2: thing past the senator. What are you hearing from the

225
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 2: leadership on it?

226
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, So I think it can pass. We've introduced it

227
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,120
Speaker 7: as part of a set of bills recently. But I

228
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,840
Speaker 7: think this is something that could be plucked up and

229
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,240
Speaker 7: put down by the way John Cornyn speaking of John,

230
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:55,120
Speaker 7: Chuck Grassley, Tommy Tuberville each have pieces of legislation which,

231
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,559
Speaker 7: for example Grassley's if a university is going to give

232
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,480
Speaker 7: you what an effect and offers of what they're going

233
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,880
Speaker 7: to do in terms of financial aid, there has to

234
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,440
Speaker 7: be a standard format so that you can compare one

235
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 7: with the other and have accurate data. Some universities present

236
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,720
Speaker 7: student loans which you can apply for as part of

237
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 7: their financial aid package, and others will say you can

238
00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,960
Speaker 7: apply for it in addition to the assistance we're going

239
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,600
Speaker 7: to give you. Now, the latter is far more honest,

240
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 7: but we should be able to compare them equally. Tuberville,

241
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,760
Speaker 7: I think it was Steve Danes from Montana has a

242
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,360
Speaker 7: bill which require the lender to give you a standard format,

243
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,439
Speaker 7: much as you go and get a mortgage, and it's

244
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,320
Speaker 7: all laid out in a standard passion with the lender.

245
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,760
Speaker 7: So these are all things attempting to address the underlying problem,

246
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,200
Speaker 7: which is that there's an asymmetry of information and they're

247
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,960
Speaker 7: all praying upon the perspective student in order to get

248
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,840
Speaker 7: their money, but also to put them in debt.

249
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,960
Speaker 2: You mentioned Tommy Tumberville. That's the Republican senator from Alabama.

250
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,680
Speaker 2: Of course, our listeners are familiar with his name, and

251
00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,679
Speaker 2: he's placed a hold on all general and flag officer

252
00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 2: nominations over this paid leave for abortion policy, the travel

253
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,000
Speaker 2: or paid leave for abortion policy. Are you getting worried now?

254
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,800
Speaker 2: We're at the point of I believe two hundred and

255
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,920
Speaker 2: fifty of these nominations are being held up by a

256
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,920
Speaker 2: single senator. Is that the right thing to do?

257
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,400
Speaker 7: Well? I can't speak to him, except but of course

258
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,000
Speaker 7: he would point out, and I'm just channelling Tommy Tubberville.

259
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,679
Speaker 7: If the Pentagon thinks it's a big issue, they should

260
00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 7: come to him and find a compromise. But if the

261
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,400
Speaker 7: Pentagon doesn't come to him, then maybe they don't think

262
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,079
Speaker 7: it's a big issue. And so I'm just channeling Tommy

263
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,120
Speaker 7: Tubberville there, but I think that's how he would reply.

264
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,560
Speaker 2: I have only a minute left. Are you concerned about

265
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 2: the cuts that are being proposed by some Republican House members.

266
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 2: We keep hearing they don't have a chance of passing

267
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,920
Speaker 2: the Senate, that we could be in the headed for

268
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:49,960
Speaker 2: a government shutdown.

269
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,959
Speaker 7: I'm not even premier with that issue. No, the debt

270
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 7: ceiling issue sets are kind of top line numbers. I

271
00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 7: had pretty s broad bipartisan support in the House, assuming

272
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,480
Speaker 7: some may be proposing, But the top line numbers have

273
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:03,280
Speaker 7: now been agreed to.

274
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,880
Speaker 2: So those top line numbers you support staying right where

275
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 2: they are, well from the deal.

276
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 7: I want them to be higher I think the world's

277
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 7: more dangerous and they just cut the fence. But that said,

278
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 7: you know, to go even further below. Yeah, it is

279
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,920
Speaker 7: clearly not going to pass. It's politically not palatable.

280
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,920
Speaker 2: Great conversation, Senator, don't be a stranger, where we always

281
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 2: appreciate your insights. The Republican from the great state of Louisiana,

282
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 2: Bill Cassidy with us here on Bloomberg Sound on the

283
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 2: fastest show in politics. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. We

284
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 2: assemble the panel. Next, This is Bloomberg. You're listening to

285
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays

286
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 2: at one Eastern.

287
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,920
Speaker 9: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

288
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:46,240
Speaker 5: The Bloomberg Business App.

289
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,240
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

290
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

291
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 2: Another day of economic data showing a resilient consumer. Retail

292
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,120
Speaker 2: else sales up unexpectedly as I read on the terminal

293
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 2: purchases up three tenths, beating all but one estimate on

294
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:13,960
Speaker 2: Wall Street markets looking at new highs today. Yet President

295
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 2: Biden not today, but recently carbon out new lows on

296
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,360
Speaker 2: his approval ratings. There's so many cross currents here. None

297
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,200
Speaker 2: of it makes sense, even as Jay Powell sends the

298
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 2: message that he's not done Hiken new highs here as

299
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 2: we assemble the panel, as we remember our conversation earlier

300
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 2: this hour with Senator Bill Cassidy weighing in on where

301
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 2: we are here. He's concerned. He used the word depression,

302
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,840
Speaker 2: by the way, that was looming. And Genie Shanzano is

303
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,480
Speaker 2: with us Bloomberg Politics contributor Democratic Analysts joined today by

304
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 2: Lester Munson principle like Government Affairs Firm BGR Group. It's

305
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 2: great to have both of you with us here. Genie.

306
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 2: We've talked about this before and from a lot of

307
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 2: different perspectives since Joe Biden took the White House. But

308
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,280
Speaker 2: the polling figures that he's looking at here, the data

309
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,160
Speaker 2: going into this re election cycle are poor. I think

310
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 2: we can agree upper thirties, low forties, depending on the day.

311
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 2: When you've got arguably an economy that's so strong that

312
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 2: Jay Powell can't break it, how do these two come

313
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,280
Speaker 2: together here when we see consumers continuing to confound economists

314
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 2: with their spending habits.

315
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's right. I mean, he's had a little good

316
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 10: news in the last week or so. It's not much

317
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,800
Speaker 10: so I know I'm stretching a bit, but he's up

318
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,840
Speaker 10: around the lower forties, you know, in Kinnipiac and you

319
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 10: gov on approval for economy. But before that, as you

320
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,480
Speaker 10: look back through like mid May, he is in the

321
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 10: mid thirties, and you know, obviously always underwater with approvals disapprovals,

322
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 10: rather really really strong on his his handling of the economy.

323
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 10: And the starting part of that is the economy has

324
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,960
Speaker 10: proved to be, as you just talked about, very resilient,

325
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 10: and so you know, one thing that he has tried

326
00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 10: to do is let the FED handle it and not

327
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 10: get involved as much as possible. But I think the

328
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 10: fact is it's going to be something that he's going

329
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 10: to have to address on the campaign trail or just

330
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,680
Speaker 10: at the very least try to avoid because these numbers

331
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 10: have been stubborn on his approval rating for the economy.

332
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 10: They have not moved despite by saying they've moved a

333
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,800
Speaker 10: little that's about three points. They haven't moved that much

334
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,280
Speaker 10: in two plus years.

335
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,480
Speaker 2: As stubborn as the numbers on inflation, you could say

336
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 2: and maybe that's the real connection here, that's what Senator

337
00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 2: Cassidy was reaching to. But Lester, if Donald Trump were

338
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,720
Speaker 2: in office today, he'd be tweeting about new highs for

339
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,000
Speaker 2: the s and P five hundred Microsoft seeing new highs today.

340
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,080
Speaker 2: These aren't just institutional buyers. We've got the whole fauxmo

341
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,119
Speaker 2: in effect right now on Wall Street, with you know,

342
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 2: retail investors piling money into the market because they obviously

343
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 2: think calls of a recession are not ringing true. We're

344
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 2: ringing the register according to retail sales data today. The

345
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 2: job market, as we recently learned, is hanging strong, and

346
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 2: that's despite the impact of inflation. So, Lester, isn't that

347
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 2: a good story to tell for a Democratic president?

348
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,920
Speaker 6: It is a good story, and I think the White

349
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,880
Speaker 6: House is trying to tell that story and claiming credit

350
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,119
Speaker 6: for the for the good parts of this economy. But

351
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,399
Speaker 6: it's just it's not breaking through in the way this

352
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 6: kind of thing used to. And I wouldn't discount the

353
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 6: possibility Joe that you know, we're just in a different

354
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,479
Speaker 6: era where presidential approval rating in the low forties is

355
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 6: not that bad. I do think Joe Biden's got kind

356
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,400
Speaker 6: of some structural issues, mostly related to his age, and

357
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 6: if there's a downturn in the economy in the near future,

358
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,199
Speaker 6: particularly early next year, that's very bad for him. But

359
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,880
Speaker 6: you know, it's possible that this is this is actually

360
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,400
Speaker 6: a decent position to be in given our politics right now.

361
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 2: That's so, is that the new normal, Genie.

362
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, he's gonna hope. So, Lester, you must go and

363
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 10: and you know, spread that news, that good news to

364
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 10: the White House. They'd be very happy to hear that.

365
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,719
Speaker 10: And you know, it may be the case that this

366
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 10: is where we are in modern America, as people are

367
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 10: so polarized. I think the problem for Joe Biden is

368
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,400
Speaker 10: that this is not just amongst Republicans. I think it's

369
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,640
Speaker 10: also amongst Democrats as well. He simply doesn't get their respect.

370
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 10: The numbers in the economy suggest he should. For very

371
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 10: low unemployment and the rest of the good news. Part

372
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 10: of that may be because they did flub it when

373
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,920
Speaker 10: it came to inflation. They kept saying it was transitory

374
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 10: when it clearly wasn't. So they did make some mistakes there,

375
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 10: but they've tried hard to clean those up. They'll still

376
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 10: try to do that and He'll continue to try to

377
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 10: trumpet the good news as it comes out if it does.

378
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,960
Speaker 10: But the reality is is he did flub it early

379
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 10: on with inflation, and they've had a hard time recovering

380
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 10: from that.

381
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 2: We're still hearing about transitory on a daily basis here.

382
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 2: I'm sure J. Powell has nightmares about it at night.

383
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 2: Leicester that that was sort of the original sin here.

384
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 2: Everything we talk about involving the economy, including the bank failures,

385
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,680
Speaker 2: are traced back to that word. Is that partly why

386
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 2: they don't believe the more markets that is, never mind

387
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 2: politicians here in Washington, like Bill Cassidy, they don't believe

388
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,920
Speaker 2: what J. Powell is telling them about the future trajectory

389
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 2: for inflation.

390
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 6: Well, I think I'm no economist. I look at the

391
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 6: market for my own interests.

392
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 7: Uh.

393
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 5: It does.

394
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 6: There does seem to be this view that you know,

395
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 6: we're actually on a pretty good path and the and

396
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 6: the US uh, you know, private sector is a good

397
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 6: investment in the long term, you know, Thank goodness.

398
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 5: Uh.

399
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 6: I see the inflation numbers coming down. It's it's slow,

400
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 6: but they are coming down. If I were if I

401
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 6: were Biden and the White House, I'd be worried about

402
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 6: this this. You know, everyone's been talking about the recession

403
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 6: that's imminent for a year and a half. That happens

404
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 6: next year. That's a real problem for the White House

405
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 6: because the people are going to be making up their

406
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 6: minds about this race for real next summer and early

407
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 6: next fall. And so if in a way they should be,

408
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 6: they they should hope for pain now so you don't

409
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 6: have next year.

410
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 2: Well, that'll certainly, boy, that'll be something to talk about.

411
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 2: Yesterday spoke with the chief economists the Bank of America

412
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 2: on Balance of Power and they have moved their forecast

413
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 2: for a recession from the second half of this year

414
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 2: to the first half of next year. And just think

415
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 2: how that would color the conversation and change the whole

416
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 2: debate on the campaign trail based on what we're talking

417
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,880
Speaker 2: about now, I have to ask you both about this

418
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,439
Speaker 2: plan on student debt relief. We discussed it with Senator

419
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: Bill Cassidy. It's actually a package of several bills, the

420
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 2: Lowering Education Costs and Debt Act, including something called the

421
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 2: College Transparency Act. And I think they're assuming, Genie, that

422
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court is not going to allow Joe Biden

423
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: to follow through with student debt forgiveness the way he

424
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 2: wanted to. Is this the next best thing? From your viewers?

425
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 2: It even better?

426
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 10: I think it's an important step, and I do applaud

427
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 10: you know, Senator Cassidy, Senator Warren and the others who

428
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 10: are making the case that has to be made, which

429
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 10: is that we need to deal with the underlying problem here,

430
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 10: the roots of the problem of the costs, not just

431
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 10: try to massage around the top. And that's what many

432
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 10: people feel that the Biden administration did with their forgiveness.

433
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,959
Speaker 10: And we will get a decision out of the Supreme

434
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 10: Court on that very soon. And you know, the reality is,

435
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 10: though students, and I see them every day, one point

436
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 10: seventy five trillion dollars in debt, five billion in interest

437
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 10: before the COVID nineteen pandemic each month is being paid.

438
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 10: I mean, this is a daunting daunting These are daunting numbers.

439
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 10: And the problem is, of course, they don't vote in

440
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 10: numbers like people of my age range and older, for

441
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 10: whom some of that would never be accepted. And so

442
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 10: that's been the problem and it's good to see Congress

443
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 10: addressing it. I think this is a good first step.

444
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 10: But there's so much more that needs to be done

445
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 10: in Congress on this.

446
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 2: What's your sense here, Lester, We're talking about forty five

447
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 2: million Americans holding federal student debt. The Supreme Court is

448
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 2: soon going to tell us what's going on here. I

449
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: don't know if you have an expectation on how that

450
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: pans out. But if the President's plan is struck down,

451
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 2: is Congress capable of passing something as an alternative.

452
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 6: Well, I don't. What I don't like about the Biden

453
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 6: proposal is that it was it's without Congress. This was

454
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 6: the President trying, by the stroke of a pen, to

455
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 6: assume he had the power to forgive all of these loans.

456
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 6: I think that's what bothered a lot of people, not

457
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 6: that we're trying to help some students who may have

458
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 6: gotten themselves into a corner financially, but that this was

459
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 6: this was being done outside the normal process. And maybe

460
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 6: this is because I'm such a hill rat from before,

461
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 6: from my earlier part of my career. But much better

462
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 6: idea to go through Congress, where both parties get to say,

463
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 6: where you have some natural compromise, where everyone's interests can

464
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 6: kind of be on the table and you can and

465
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 6: you can sort things out and get to a fair place.

466
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 6: The problem with the Biden administration proposal, I think the

467
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 6: reason it wasn't popular It seemed like it was just

468
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 6: one a very one sided approach. This this what Senator

469
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 6: Cassidy and the other centators are doing, much better way.

470
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: To do it well. As the Senator pointed out to

471
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 2: the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, if you follow

472
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: their research here finds it even if the President's loan

473
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: forgiveness plan is upheld by the Supreme Court, outstanding debt

474
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 2: will return to its current levels in only five years. Genie,

475
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 2: how depressing would that be for those students you look

476
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 2: at every day.

477
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 10: Oh, it's very depressing, and for their families as well,

478
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 10: and for people who have younger children who are looking

479
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 10: to send them to college in the near future or

480
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 10: long term. The number that cost just keeps rising. And

481
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 10: there are other ideas out there, you know. One of

482
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 10: the ideas that is talked about is if Congress would

483
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 10: act to limit the interest on education debts, so put

484
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 10: it to three percent, to be reduced to one percent

485
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 10: when you complete your program, that would incentivize in the

486
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 10: right direction. I do agree with Lester this is these

487
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 10: things are best done via Congress and not the executive branch.

488
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 10: But for that to happen, Congress needs to be acting

489
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 10: and so that's been a problem of late. And so

490
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 10: that is where the rub is and that is in

491
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 10: part why did Biden administration went.

492
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 2: Forward Smart Talk with our panel Genie Shanzano, Bloomberg Politics

493
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 2: contributor and Lester Munson's self professed hill Rats from BGR

494
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: with us here on Bloomberg Sound On. We're going to

495
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: hit the campaign trail next. You know, we've added another

496
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: on the Republican side, and he's in really good shape.

497
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

498
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

499
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

500
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

501
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: If the object of a presidential campaign is differentiating yourself

502
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 2: from the competition, if that is the goal, then the

503
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: mayor of Miami may be onto something here. Mayor Francis

504
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: Suarez filing his paperwork as you may have heard on

505
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: Bloomberg and announcing his run for the Republican nomination with

506
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: a shiny new ad showing off his physical prowess.

507
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 5: I have always been a runner. It's the best place

508
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 5: to charge my body and clear my mind.

509
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: You've seen running all over Miami right here, T shirt shorts.

510
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 5: This is where my parents began their American dreams.

511
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: Got a good sweat going six pack abs a lot

512
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 2: different than the two front runners on both sides of

513
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 2: the aisle. On each side, of course, Donald Trump Joe Biden,

514
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 2: where age is one of the primary factors for a

515
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: lot of voters, and so we're compelled by this, I believe.

516
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: By the way, if you're playing along on your home game,

517
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 2: this brings the field to thirteen. Let's ask Mark nikuent.

518
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 2: I always love talking to Mark about the latest on

519
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: the campaign trail as he covers it here Bloomberg National

520
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: Political Reporter. Is it thirteen candidates for the nomination?

521
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 5: Now?

522
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 11: Mark, It depends how you'd count as a major candidate.

523
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 11: There's probably more than thirteen who have filed by Okay,

524
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 11: of you know folks who would.

525
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: Have people we've heard of right who would have a chance.

526
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 11: To make a debate stage in August, which is going

527
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 11: to be sort of the test of you know, who

528
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 11: can raise money, who can like register in the polls

529
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 11: and be able to you know, participate in that debate.

530
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: Need enough cash, need one percent. What's this campaign all about?

531
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: Is a forty five year old mayor h with milel

532
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 2: good looks running around the city of Miami looking like,

533
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 2: you know, a Marvel superhero. Is he actually a competitor

534
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: or setting himself up for four years from now?

535
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 11: I think at a minimum, he's probably doing the ladder.

536
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 11: You know, there's a there's a governor's race coming up

537
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 11: in Florida in twenty four. Potentially he might be a

538
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,239
Speaker 11: candidate for that. This could help, you know, expose him

539
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 11: to the country and and maybe set himself up for

540
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 11: a run in twenty twenty eight. But the mayor is

541
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 11: is clearly trying to position himself as you know, a

542
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 11: Republican who can appeal to the young voters, urban voters,

543
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 11: and Hispanic voters, which you know he would argue is

544
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 11: a growing demographic of Republicans.

545
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 2: Can you get on a debate stage before the contest

546
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: is over?

547
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 11: I think it's going to be hard. I mean, we're

548
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 11: getting close to the end of the period where you

549
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 11: can realistically get in the race if you're not a

550
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 11: known quantity, and he certainly is not getting the race

551
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 11: and still raise the amount of money. You need forty

552
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 11: thousand unique donors from twenty states, and you have to

553
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 11: register at least one percent of national polls to get

554
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 11: on debate stage. And it's going to be pretty hard

555
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 11: if you're coming from a spot where you're not well

556
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 11: known outside your home state.

557
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: You're going to be in Milwaukee in August, right, I'm

558
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: sure you are.

559
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 11: Yeah, we hope to be there covering the debate. It's

560
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 11: going to be sort of the first big moment for

561
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 11: the Republican presidential race.

562
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 2: Hope we'll see you there too, Mark Niquette. Great conversation,

563
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: Mark Bloomberg, national political reporter, as we reassemble the panel

564
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: for their take here on this ever expanding field. Jeanie Shanzeno,

565
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: Democratic canalyst in Bloomberg Politics contributor, joined today by Lester Munson,

566
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: Republican strategist principle at BGR Group. What do you think, Lester?

567
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: Is there room for another?

568
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 5: Maybe not?

569
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 6: I think you can only have like ten candidates on

570
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 6: the stage.

571
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: Didn't they going to have to do the kids table again?

572
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 5: Yeah?

573
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: This was tough last time.

574
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, maybe he'll make it to the kids table. I

575
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 6: don't know a lot about the mayor. I did not

576
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 6: see his video. I do know he voted for Democrats

577
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 6: as recently as twenty eighteen. I'm not sure that's the

578
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 6: best path to getting to be the Republican nominee for president,

579
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 6: But who knows?

580
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: Did I make too much about the abs Genie? He

581
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: just seems like he's in really good shape.

582
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 10: Boy. He is a very literal interpretation of running. It

583
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 10: sounds like and it looks like like a Nike commercial.

584
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 10: I am going to go out and run right after

585
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 10: this because I'm feeling very lazy.

586
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: I started doing sus that's right.

587
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 10: And you know, it is fascinating because as we know,

588
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 10: he is a mayor really in name only. He has

589
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 10: very little executive power there. The real power there is

590
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 10: the mayor of Miami Dade. But he has made quite

591
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 10: a name for himself. He's a year he's just forty

592
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 10: five years old. As you mentioned, his father was mayor,

593
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 10: and he is, as he keeps saying, the only Hispanic,

594
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 10: the only Latino in the race. So he is, you know,

595
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 10: out there. But I think you know to your point,

596
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 10: and when you were talking to Mark, it's striking. Is

597
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 10: any of this really about twenty four or we all

598
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 10: really just talking about VP cabinet for twenty four and

599
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 10: the twenty eight race, because of course, you know, nobody

600
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 10: is taking on Donald Trump directly, and he is thirty

601
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 10: points ahead, raised seven million dollars since he was federally indicted.

602
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 10: And I just give a shout out to Mike Pence

603
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 10: for his radio interview. I seldom do this. He's not

604
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 10: my favorite, but I thought his response to Travis and

605
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 10: Sexton was very good on Trump. We need to hear

606
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 10: more of that, and not just from Chris CHRISTI.

607
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: So, yeah, six point six million is that the number

608
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: Genie Donald Trump raised since the indictment. The IRA has

609
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: made him richer, lester, Has it made him stronger?

610
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 6: Maybe temporarily. I do think in the long run, these

611
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 6: legal troubles for the former president hurt him. Once it

612
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 6: comes time for folks to actually vote, they're not going

613
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 6: to do that for seven months. He's going to be

614
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 6: carrying around a lot of criminal charges, maybe over one

615
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 6: hundred at that point by January of next year, and

616
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 6: there's a big chunk of Republican voters who have not

617
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 6: made up their mind yet. I don't think this kind

618
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 6: of stuff helps with them at all.

619
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, boy. Joe Biden meanwhile, is staying pretty quiet here

620
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: as we go into the summer. Jeanie, what's the play

621
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: for the Biden campaign? I mean, is there one? Is

622
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: he going to be doing town halls and rallies or

623
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: just let Republicans beat each other up until it gets

624
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: cooler outside.

625
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 10: He is going to keep doing his job. He is

626
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 10: going to keep his head down as far as possible.

627
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 10: He is going to let them beat each other up.

628
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 10: He's gonna hope more people enter this race because the

629
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 10: more the merrier, And and to Lester's point, they really

630
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 10: still do believe that if Trump can capture this thing,

631
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 10: and it's easier if there's more people in the race

632
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 10: room to capture it, that that's better off for Joe Biden.

633
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 10: Could we also just add that Suarez takes we understand

634
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 10: takes his pay in bitcoin.

635
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. He was gonna make Miami the crypto capital.

636
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: He's the reason why ft X got on the Miami

637
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: Heats stadium with the naming rights there. I mean, actually,

638
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: that would be some pretty decent opo against him, wouldn't it.

639
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 10: It is really really fascinating, And we also have to say.

640
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 10: On the downside, he is being investigated by the SEC

641
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 10: and by the FBID in Miami Herald Reports. So there's

642
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 10: some ugliness, but hey, who is not that's in this

643
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 10: gop race at this point?

644
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: Well fair now now now doesn't have a Genie Shanzano

645
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: and Lester Munson. We'll be back with some final thoughts

646
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: and to see if we can spell potato. It was

647
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: on this date. Dan Quayle will do that next on Bloomberg.

648
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

649
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: program live weekdays at one Eastern.

650
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 9: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in alf Bloomberg dot Com, and.

651
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 5: The Bloomberg Business App.

652
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

653
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

654
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: To think it was more than thirty years ago? I

655
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: was I. I had to figured it was a typo

656
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: thirty one years ago. The nation got another lesson, as

657
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: if they needed another, and spelling the word potato. And

658
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: there's a lesson that comes from the incident, of course,

659
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 2: that dan Quayle could never possibly live down from this

660
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 2: day in nineteen ninety two, he is there in a classroom,

661
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: the vice president doing a little spelling bee, if you will,

662
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: with the students, and he says, tato, that's the word.

663
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: The student comes up to the chalkboard to get the

664
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: crayon and write it there the chalk, I should say, President,

665
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 2: just wait for the I want to do that one

666
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 2: more time. Something at the end. There he spelled it perfectly.

667
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: Of course, you're.

668
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

669
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: He put an E on it, which, of course was

670
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: something that made dan Quill the point of ridicule for

671
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 2: many many years. That was in nineteen ninety two, on

672
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: the fifteenth of June. And of course there is a

673
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: lesson learned beyond the spelling of potato. With final thoughts

674
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: from our panel here, uh Lester Munson. You know he

675
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: was reading off a Q card that had it spelled wrong.

676
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 2: What's the lesson for all these folks on the campaign

677
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 2: trail to avoid a scenario like that one?

678
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, what a wonderful tradition that we

679
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 6: have of making fun of our vice presidents and kind

680
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 6: of laughing at them. This is arguably the second most

681
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 6: important job in the government, right and we can't help

682
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 6: but laugh at them, you know, even today, you know,

683
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 6: people are taking shots at the vice president. I don't

684
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 6: think it's it's very fair, but it's it seems to

685
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 6: come with the job. I would say, make sure you

686
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 6: hire good staff.

687
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 2: You know, gosh, good staff is part of this staff

688
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: work here, Genie. But isn't it funny we only have well,

689
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 2: we've got less than a minute left that that was

690
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: the biggest controversy of the time. As we look back

691
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 2: on this week that the president was indicted with federal charges.

692
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 10: That's right, what a quaint time potato potato. It wouldn't

693
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 10: even make headlines today. And it was the elementary school

694
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 10: that spelled it wrong on the que card. By the way,

695
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 10: somebody else.

696
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're right. And boy did he regret that moment.

697
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: He must have been waking up in the middle of

698
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: the night with panic attacks reliving the whole thing. Genie

699
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: Shanzano Lester months and we thank you as ever our

700
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: great panel. Here. Our two of sound On starts right now.

701
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

702
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on.

703
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 9: Bloomberg Radio, the tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

704
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 5: The Bloomberg Business app.

705
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

706
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

707
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: And welcome to our two if Bloomberg sound on live

708
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: from Washington. I'm Joel Matthew, joined now by Kaylie Lines,

709
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 2: who of course joins us every day at this time.

710
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: And Kaylee, we've got an eye on Ukraine today with

711
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: a lot of conflicting headlines about what's going on in

712
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: this counteroffensive that we waited months to see actually happen,

713
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 2: and we're hearing from the top brass the Pentagon today

714
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: says don't believe everything you read.

715
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 12: Yes, well, we're also hearing from the Defense Secretary of

716
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 12: Lloyd Austin that this is going to be a marathon,

717
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 12: not a sprint, which just kind of speaks to underscore

718
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 12: already what has been the length of this conflict and

719
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 12: how much further it realistically could go.

720
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: They got together in Brussels this morning meeting with other

721
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: defense ministers. If we can use the term, here's the

722
00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:59,959
Speaker 2: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General, Mark Millie.

723
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 13: They're in the early stages and it's far too early

724
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 13: to make any definitive assessments, but I can tell you

725
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 13: that each day Ukrainians demonstrate the courage and tenacity needed

726
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 13: to methodically regain their territory.

727
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: So you see this headline on the terminal Kiev cites

728
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 2: severe fighting as forces advanced Ukrainian forces reporting partial success

729
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 2: in a counter offensive backed by a fresh infusion of arms,

730
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 2: a day after Vladimir Putin acknowledge that Russian troops lack

731
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 2: sufficient advanced weapons. Then you turn to the Guardian Ukraine

732
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: taking significant casualties, making slow progress towards Russian defense according

733
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: to Western officials. Lloyd Austin was asked about these reports that,

734
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: for instance, they are losing a lot of tanks, that

735
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: they're having trouble making any movement here, that it's quickly

736
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: turning into a war of attrition. Here's Secretary Lloyd Austin.

737
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 14: There will continue to be battle damage. I think the

738
00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 14: Russians have shown us that same five vehicles about times

739
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 14: from ten different angles. But quite frankly, the Ukrainians have

740
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 14: still have a lot of combat capability, combat power.

741
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: Of course we can send more. There was another draw

742
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: down announced today as well in Brussels. More weapons heading

743
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: over Kayley, But they don't believe a lot of what

744
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: they're hearing as he just figured or just just said

745
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: they figured that Russia is reusing the same photographs of

746
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: blown up tanks over and over.

747
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 12: Right, it's so hard to know whether or not the

748
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 12: information you're receiving is actually accurate or is mis or disinformation, right,

749
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 12: because we know the propaganda esque aspect that we have

750
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 12: to consider with this as well. But even as you

751
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 12: know there is a lack of clarity as to what

752
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 12: exactly is going on on the ground, that doesn't mean

753
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 12: that the support call from the US and allies is waiting.

754
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 12: Austin also was saying today that you need to dig

755
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 12: deep encouraging allies to continue the support in both the

756
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 12: short term and the long term.

757
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 2: Well, we get to talk about it with doctor Kelly Grico.

758
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: I'm glad to say she's back with us. Last time

759
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: we spoke was when we were kind of on the

760
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 2: press of the F sixteens, and now we've made our

761
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 2: way through that they're actually training pilots. And by the way,

762
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 2: Lloyd Austin did talk about that earlier today. Doctor Grico's

763
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: senior fellow at the Stimpson Center. And I wonder your

764
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: thoughts on what we're hearing here, doctor, and what you

765
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: believe is actually happening on the ground. Is Ukraine moving

766
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,959
Speaker 2: forward with this offensive or is it on its heels?

767
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 15: Well, first, thank you for having me. To be honest,

768
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 15: I would say this is going probably exactly how I

769
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 15: would expect. You know, I think it's important to keep

770
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 15: in mind exactly what Ukraine's trying to do here, and

771
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 15: that is attacking against a defender that is well entrenched,

772
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 15: has laid out minefields and obstacles to make it very

773
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 15: difficult for Ukraine's offensive to progress. And despite that, Ukraine

774
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 15: has managed to liberate nine villages towns in the border

775
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 15: area of the front lines. And so this is you know,

776
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 15: I didn't I think I would not have expected this

777
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 15: to go very quickly. This is you know, the word

778
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 15: that I think it was merely in your tape use

779
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 15: was methodical. And that's exactly what we're seeing as a slow,

780
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 15: methodical rolling back.

781
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 12: Well, if it's slow and methodical, that would indicate that

782
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 12: this is still something that's going to drag on for

783
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 12: quite some time. Is there any technology that the US

784
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 12: or other allies could give Ukraine at this point to

785
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 12: accelerate things?

786
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 15: Yes, I think this is going to take quite a

787
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 15: bit of time.

788
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: You know.

789
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 15: I think in the West we like technology and we

790
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 15: like to find technological solutions to these kinds of problems.

791
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 15: But there really isn't any kind of technological silver bullet

792
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 15: or wonder weapon that would actually help, frankly, with this problem.

793
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 15: This is about combining different kinds of arms and systems

794
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 15: together to generate in a fact, because in ground warfare

795
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 15: in particular, defense is very very strong. You know, up

796
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 15: until now largely Ukraine's been on the defensive and taken

797
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 15: advantage of that, and the Russians have had months to

798
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 15: prepare for what they know is a coming attack from

799
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 15: the Ukrainians and have learned from the Ukrainians about the

800
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 15: strength of defense and how to prepare that. And so

801
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 15: this is really about executing more in some respects about

802
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 15: skill and having sufficient quantity of weapons. But unfortunately there's

803
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 15: not a wonder weapon.

804
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: Well, they thought the S sixteen might be a bit

805
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 2: of a wonder weapon at least with what we were hearing.

806
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: We spoke with Uri Sak, the spokesperson for the Defense

807
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: minister in Ukraine. This is you know, this was the

808
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: golden ticket and now that this is starting to actually progress.

809
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: They don't. They're not flying F sixteen's at the moment.

810
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,959
Speaker 2: We are training their pilots to prepare for this moment.

811
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: Lloyd Austin was asked about it today in Brussels. Here's

812
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: what he said.

813
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 14: We were brief today on kind of the outline of

814
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 14: the plan and the steps, you know, for the way ahead.

815
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 14: And I have to tell you that they in thirty

816
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 14: days that we've been after this, they have leaned into

817
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 14: this in a major way. As you know, the United

818
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 14: States will have to provide approval for the training and

819
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 14: also some other aspects of this.

820
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,240
Speaker 2: Interesting little disclaimer at the end there, doctor, you didn't

821
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 2: think that the F sixteen's were necessarily the best idea.

822
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 2: Do you see the US approving a go forward here

823
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: to actually operationalize them, and do you think at this

824
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: point it'll make a difference.

825
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 15: No, I mean, I still maintain that I don't think

826
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 15: the F sixteen will prove as decisive in changing the

827
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 15: tide of combat as many people expect. Russia has really

828
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 15: dense and sophisticated air defense systems, and the F sixteen

829
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 15: is not a stealth aircraft, so it would be very

830
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 15: vulnerable against those kinds of air defenses, and it's going

831
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 15: to be complicated to operate the system inside the country

832
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 15: in terms of maintenance and things like that. It will

833
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 15: just take time to put that in place. And the

834
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 15: Ukrainians have shown themselves capable of learning how to do

835
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 15: these kinds of things, but it does take time. And

836
00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 15: I would just go back to once again that this

837
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 15: is fundamentally a ground war and it's an artillery game,

838
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 15: and we see that right now in the offensive this

839
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 15: is all about artillery.

840
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 12: Well, so when we talk about that, the f sex

841
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 12: teens and also what certain tangs have in common is

842
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 12: that it took the US a long time to come

843
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 12: around to the idea that Okay, yes, we actually are

844
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 12: going to give in and give Ukraine these things. Has

845
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 12: the administration wasted too much time on the debate about

846
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 12: whether or not to provide a weapon before ultimately doing so,

847
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,919
Speaker 12: and has that set Ukraine back in this fight?

848
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 15: Well, I think that's an interesting question because they've tried

849
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 15: to sort of thread this policy needle of supporting Ukraine

850
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 15: and trying to meet its needs on the battlefield, but

851
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 15: also avoiding escalation dangers with Russia. And one of the

852
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 15: things that I will say that I think many people

853
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 15: have missed is that the approach of the administration has

854
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 15: taken of this sort of incremental ramping up of AID

855
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 15: I think has actually been the way they've very effectively

856
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 15: managed the escalation risk. So what they've essentially done to

857
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 15: Putin is to say to him, every time, you know, okay,

858
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 15: we're going to now send Hi Mars or then we

859
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 15: say we're going to send patriots. Is he really going

860
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,479
Speaker 15: to escalate to say a tactical nuclear use over any

861
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 15: individual weapons system.

862
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 10: Probably not.

863
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 15: But if we had announced all of these things at

864
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 15: the same time, his decision calculus might have been different.

865
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 15: So yes, it has slowed down the process of getting

866
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 15: these systems to Ukraine, but it's done it in a

867
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 15: way that has also served us interests of supporting Ukraine

868
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 15: without getting US directly involved in a conflict with Russia.

869
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: Some pretty compelling remarks only because they are rare from

870
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: Vladimir Putin acknowledging some actual negative news on their side.

871
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: Here he says Russia has lost fifty four tanks since

872
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 2: Ukraine's drive began last week. That's the first time the

873
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: Kremlin has admitted to losses on such a scale. Here

874
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: and that may not acknowledge all of them. Doctor, do

875
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 2: you have a sense of the health right now of

876
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: the Russia military that's engaged in Ukraine.

877
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 15: Yeah, I feel like this is the really big question.

878
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 15: You know, I wonder a lot about Russian morale, for example,

879
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 15: and I'm sure the Ukrainians are wondering about it too,

880
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 15: because yeah, I mean, we're you would think, you know,

881
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 15: if we're going to see some kind of real breakthrough,

882
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 15: you know that the Ukrainians make in this counter offensive,

883
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 15: my guess is it'll be because a poor Russian morale

884
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 15: and that it collapses. And so I think that is

885
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 15: the real question. And we know that they've basically have

886
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 15: just been feeding troops into the battlefield with very little

887
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 15: training and undertaking you know, really dangerous and intense combat.

888
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 15: And so, you know, I think those comments by Putin

889
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 15: are very interesting because it's acknowledging a loss, and you

890
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 15: have to think he's preparing some ground for his public

891
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 15: to perhaps expect future losses.

892
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: Well.

893
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 12: As we talk about the Russian military in particular, there's

894
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 12: also the question of the Wagner Group and what seems

895
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 12: to be, you know, escalating tension between Vladimir Putin and Progozen.

896
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 12: How much does that matter in Russia's fight here?

897
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean this is a fascinating side story, right

898
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 15: you know how you know the Wagner head has not

899
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 15: gone out a window in Russia, I don't know. But

900
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 15: what's interesting about it is that this is probably one

901
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 15: of the best things that Ukraine could have happen, in

902
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 15: the sense that they're very involved in their own internal

903
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 15: political struggle between this Wagner head of Mercenary Group and

904
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 15: the Russian regular military and Defense Ministry, and the more

905
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 15: they're fighting with each other, the more they're distracted from

906
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 15: what should be their enemy, which is the Ukrainian military.

907
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 15: I think it's also interesting that Putin himself has sort

908
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 15: of tolerated to a large degree this infighting going on,

909
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 15: and I think it's because right now anyway, the Wagner

910
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 15: head is useful to him and laying blame on the

911
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 15: Russian military because it's setting up a set of ball guys,

912
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 15: you know, the grass them off and the head of

913
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 15: the defense force there. So how long that goes on,

914
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 15: we'll see, But right now anyway, I think Putin's sees

915
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 15: it as providing some cover.

916
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 2: For him spending some time with doctor Kelly Grico of

917
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 2: the Stimson Center with an ion some apparent progress with

918
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 2: the counter offensive in Ukraine. There was a question today

919
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,760
Speaker 2: about timeline in the news conference with General Mark Milly,

920
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 2: the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He was

921
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: there with the Defense Secretary. Once again, doctor, I don't

922
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 2: know if it's a good thing when the chairman of

923
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: the Joint chief starts quoting Napoleon. But that did happen.

924
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 13: Listen, there are several hundred thousand Russian troops dug in

925
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 13: and prepared positions all along the front line, and Ukraine

926
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 13: has begun their attack and they are making steady progress.

927
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 5: This is a very difficult fight.

928
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 13: It is a very violent fight, and it will likely

929
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 13: take a considered amount of time and at high cost.

930
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 13: But at the end of the day, as Napoleon once said,

931
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 13: the moral is to the physical as three is to one.

932
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 2: The moral is the physical as three is to one.

933
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 2: What do you think of that? Yes, you know, it's

934
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: kind of what you were saying, isn't it.

935
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 5: It is?

936
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 15: It's exactly right. He's you know, it's the morale issue.

937
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 15: And one thing that we see is the Ukrainians are

938
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 15: very determined and They've prepared their population for this fight.

939
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 15: They've released some propaganda videos that you know, we're getting

940
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 15: ready to fight. And at the end of the day,

941
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 15: they're liberating what they see fundamentally as their own territory

942
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 15: and their own people, and they're coning on that to

943
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 15: provide to be an enabler of their operations, compared to

944
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 15: the Russians that are, you know, more disillusioned, not as

945
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 15: well trained, and not as well treated by their own

946
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 15: superior officers. Finally, here, we only have about a minute

947
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 15: or so left, doctor, But when we think about the

948
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 15: endgame ultimately, is this about just reclaiming as much territory

949
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 15: as possible ending in kind of a stalemate. Is outright

950
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 15: victory even possible for either side at this stage in

951
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 15: the war? If by outright victory you mean liberating all

952
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 15: the territory, including Crimea, I think that's a really hard

953
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 15: ask on the part of the Ukrainians. But what I

954
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 15: think they can do is make significant gains. Perhaps on

955
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 15: the battlefield they'll be costly, but it's make enough game

956
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 15: that put them in a better position to negotiate with

957
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,479
Speaker 15: the Russians some type of compromise and to the war

958
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 15: that will you lead them both not entirely satisfied, but

959
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 15: will allow Ukraine, a country we expected maybe to fall

960
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 15: in four days, to actually reclaim quite a bit of territory.

961
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 2: Amazing stuff. Doctor, Thanks for the time. It's great to

962
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: talk to you again. Kelly Grico, senior fellow with the

963
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 2: Reimagining US Grand Strategy Program. Isn't that great at the

964
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 2: Stimpson Center?

965
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 12: Great title?

966
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: Quoting Napoleon in a news conference like that in Brussels.

967
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 2: I was fascinated by it. I mean, it's actually it's

968
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 2: just a great line. It is in war the moral

969
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: is to the physical as three is to one. That's

970
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: sort of written for Ukraine here. Of course, it's been

971
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 2: a real t challenge to get military nominations through the

972
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 2: House at this time of supporting Ukraine. We're going to

973
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 2: talk about that coming up. The Tuberville blockade, it's going around.

974
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 2: It's not the only blockade on Capitol Hill. A lot

975
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 2: of nominations are being blocked, hundreds of them. We'll talk

976
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 2: about it next on sound on This is Bloomberg.

977
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

978
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern.

979
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 5: On Bloomberg dot com.

980
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 1: The iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen

981
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

982
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: So we just spent the first almost half hour here

983
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 2: of this hour, maybe I should say the first half

984
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 2: of this hour. Kaylee Line's talking about the war in

985
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: Ukraine here, the drawdown today and the conversation we had

986
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 2: in Brussels with the Secretary of Defense, the Chair of

987
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: the Joint Chiefs. And it brings us to a matter

988
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 2: here in Washington that a lot of top brass is

989
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 2: not very happy about this block from Senator Tommy Tuberville

990
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: using Senate rules. This is the power of ones to

991
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: delay promotions for what I believe is now counting to

992
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty Defense Department leaders in protest of

993
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 2: the Pentagon's announcement here that it's going to pay for

994
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: service members to travel to obtain abortions. It's sort of

995
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 2: travel or pay leave. And so he's throwing up a

996
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: blockade on a lot of folks who are needed at

997
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 2: this time at the Pentagon. Karine Jean Pierre, the Press

998
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 2: secretary at the White House, was asked about it just yesterday.

999
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 16: First of all, it's shameful that he's doing this right.

1000
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 17: I mean, he needs to be.

1001
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 16: Asked a question is why is he putting our national

1002
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 16: security at risk? That is something for a senator to

1003
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 16: be able to answer to. We're trying to do the

1004
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 16: right thing by moving forward and protecting our military readiness

1005
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 16: and protecting our military families.

1006
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: So we wanted to have a conversation about this to

1007
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 2: find out where we're going here, because I don't think

1008
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 2: we have any sign of this stopping anytime.

1009
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 12: No, I mean, one of our very own colleagues here

1010
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 12: at Bloomberg, Tyler Kendall, saw Senator Tulberville in the hallway

1011
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 12: in the Senate today and asked him specifically about that

1012
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 12: comment from the White House what his response was to

1013
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 12: it being shameful. He essentially alluded to the fact that

1014
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 12: the Press Secretary doesn't know what she's talking about in

1015
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 12: regard to this bill, and that he's going to keep

1016
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 12: at it.

1017
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact.

1018
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 16: Here he is, first of all, it's shameful that he's

1019
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 16: doing this.

1020
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: No, we'll get that for you just a second. Actually,

1021
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 2: if you guys could pull that for us, We want

1022
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: to hear directly from Tubberville talking today with Bloomberg News

1023
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 2: in the meantime, here we bring in Megan Scully, who

1024
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 2: is our team leader, our Congress team leader. We go

1025
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 2: to the top on this program, Kaylee. Speaking of which,

1026
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 2: Wendy Benjaminson, Bloomberg Deputy Managing Editor. Great to see both

1027
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 2: of you, guys, and thank you for coming in to

1028
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: join us. Megan, I'll start with you as a long

1029
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: time observer, we'll say of actions on Capitol Hill. Is

1030
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 2: this a misuse of Senate rules? Or is this sort

1031
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 2: of the whole point for how the minority can actually

1032
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: have a say in what goes on in Washington.

1033
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 18: I think the answer to that depends on whether you

1034
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 18: agree with Senator Tuberville or not. But it is, as

1035
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 18: you said, the power of one. Usually nominations like this

1036
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 18: are particularly for the mid level officers and the low

1037
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 18: level generals within the military, are just passed by unanimous

1038
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 18: consent right before the Senate leaves for a recess. What

1039
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 18: is happening now is that the Senate is unable to

1040
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 18: go forward with them unless they embark on this very

1041
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 18: time consuming procedure that they would have to do for

1042
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 18: each one of those more than two hundred. As you said,

1043
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 18: we're now kind of getting into a bit of a

1044
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 18: crisis mode though, because there are several members of the

1045
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 18: Joint Chiefs of Staff, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs,

1046
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 18: who have to by statute, retire in the coming months.

1047
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,280
Speaker 2: So this is going to come to a head potentially

1048
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: Wendy over the Ultimate, the highest of top brass in

1049
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 2: the Pentagon. But it's also not the only blockade we're

1050
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: seeing like this. This has become a real tactic for

1051
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 2: Republicans in the Senate.

1052
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 19: Oh, Republicans and Democrats. It's like all the rage right

1053
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 19: now because you have Biden is getting it from two

1054
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 19: Democratics senators, one who's more toward the right wing of

1055
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 19: the Democratic Party and the other Bernie Sanders, who's at

1056
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 19: the far left. They are holding up Joe Manchin is

1057
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 19: holding up nominations for any EPA staff or appointees because

1058
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 19: he opposes Biden's energy policies. And Bernie Sanders is holding

1059
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 19: up any health related appointees until he gets what he

1060
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 19: wants on pharmaceutical prices. And then you have Tubberville, and

1061
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 19: you have JD.

1062
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 12: Vance. Jadie Vance, thank you very much, a Republican.

1063
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 19: A Republican, yes, who is holding up any all the

1064
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 19: Ojay appointees just because he's mad that Donald Trump was indicted.

1065
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,439
Speaker 12: Well, it's a question of, like is hostage taking now

1066
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 12: just how the US government works? That was surely the

1067
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 12: word that was thrown around with the debt ceiling. We

1068
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 12: won't raise the debt ceiling until you give us the

1069
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 12: budget we want, and now it's we're not going to

1070
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 12: confirm anyone until you do. Well is so how are these.

1071
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 19: Surprise of defunding the Justice Department right over the Trump

1072
00:54:59,080 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 19: and Diamond as well?

1073
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 2: Great point though it's bipartisan, Kayley sopecfully so, as Joe

1074
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 2: Biden once said, right, I guess at that point it's

1075
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,720
Speaker 2: a little different in fifty to fifty Senate, everyone's president.

1076
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 2: Guess what everyone still is kind of from the Senate.

1077
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 12: Well, and it becomes a question, Megan, of how these

1078
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 12: standoffs end if people aren't just going to get what

1079
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 12: they want.

1080
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 18: Yeah, and you mentioned hostage taking, right, So what Chuck

1081
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 18: Schumer is debating right now is whether he wants to

1082
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 18: negotiate with with these hostage takers. It's one of those

1083
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 18: things where if he if he gives Senator Tupperville what

1084
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 18: he wants, he's gonna have to give Senator Sanders what

1085
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 18: he wants, and he's gonna have to and on and

1086
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 18: on and on, and this just becomes more of a

1087
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 18: routine in the Senate. That being said, the Senate does

1088
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 18: not like to shed itself of any of its traditions.

1089
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 18: You see this with the filibuster rule, and it's you know,

1090
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 18: these time honored rituals within what is called the Upper Chamber.

1091
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 18: So I don't see it going anywhere that particular rule.

1092
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 18: What we might see is them taking some time to

1093
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 18: do the procedures on these high ranking nominees. And then

1094
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 18: you know, I don't know what happens with the two

1095
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 18: hundred and some odd generals that are that are also awaiting.

1096
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 2: Let's hear from the senator again. He spoke with Bloomberg

1097
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:15,959
Speaker 2: News today.

1098
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 20: Here's she needs to know something about the bill first,

1099
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 20: what's going on? Obviously I saw the little clip yesterday.

1100
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 20: She probably never heard of it, and she probably had

1101
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 20: in her book and she didn't make any sense of

1102
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 20: what she was talking about. But we're sticking with what

1103
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 20: we believe in. It's an illegal bill and they're trying

1104
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 20: to make an end run in the NDA and all that.

1105
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,399
Speaker 20: It's not gonna work. They got change of policy back

1106
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 20: illegal policy, get a standalone bill on the floor in

1107
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,839
Speaker 20: this vote on it. That's how we're going in this thing, Joe.

1108
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 12: It strikes me that he says we're sticking with what

1109
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 12: we believe it And I want to know who the

1110
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 12: wei is Wendy that he's referring to when he has

1111
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 12: Republican colleagues in the Senate who are now pushing back

1112
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 12: against his tactics here. I mean, is he talking about

1113
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 12: the people of Alabama?

1114
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 19: Who knows he could be talking about the anti abortion movement?

1115
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 19: He could be talking about. You know, we read the

1116
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 19: John Cornyn and Joni Earnst where both I believe anti

1117
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 19: abortion rights senators are trying to get him to drop

1118
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 19: this just so in the interest of frankly, national security

1119
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 19: to getting these generals and high officers in place. But

1120
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 19: also Joni Ernst has a bill that would prohibit the

1121
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 19: Pentagon from allowing service personnel to go and get abortions

1122
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 19: in other states if they need to. And she's said, look,

1123
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 19: let's just get a bill in the House, a vote

1124
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 19: in the House Armed Services Committee, since we know in

1125
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 19: a Democratic Senate this isn't actually going to become law

1126
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 19: and he's refused. So he's refusing another conservative, anti abortion

1127
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 19: Republican who is trying to get him to drop the hold.

1128
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 2: Yes, right, So does this end up in I mean,

1129
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: it's an opportunity I suppose for the leader. Let's make

1130
00:57:57,720 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 2: a deal everybody. I mean, we got to get the

1131
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 2: wheels turning somehow. So what could he get out of

1132
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 2: these guys that that that might make sense? And when

1133
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: I say guys, I mean to your point, senators on

1134
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 2: both sides of the eye, how do we unlock some

1135
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 2: of these nominations?

1136
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 19: Well, I mean, Megan, Meghan brought up an excellent point

1137
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 19: which was at one point, doesn't end once you start

1138
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 19: negotiating with hostage takers. If we're going to use their

1139
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 19: own analogy, then then where exactly does it doesn't end?

1140
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 19: This also costs Biden a politically significant moment because General C. Q.

1141
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 19: Brown not the nominee to be the Chairman of the

1142
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 19: Joint Chiefs is a historic nomination in that with him

1143
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 19: and Lloyd Austin as the top two Pentagon officials in

1144
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 19: the country, you would have two African Americans at the

1145
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 19: top of the US military for the first time.

1146
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely that may not be realized for a long time.

1147
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 19: It may not be realized if this continues, right, and

1148
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,919
Speaker 19: then what do you do? I mean, there are Republicans

1149
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 19: love to talk about national security and the threat of

1150
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 19: China and the threat of you and other than the

1151
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 19: Russia Ukraine War. And you know, if the Pentagon is

1152
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 19: hamstrung by not having its generals in place, that doesn't

1153
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 19: bode well.

1154
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think it raises a really interesting question as

1155
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 12: we had so much Republican pushback during the debt ceiling

1156
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 12: negotiations about the idea of defense spending and a three

1157
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 12: percent rise in that spending being too small, frankly, and

1158
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 12: yet it's almost like the concept of defense being treated

1159
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 12: differently in different political context.

1160
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1161
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 19: No, it is treated differently in different political contests. They

1162
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 19: want Remember, the federal government has regulated abortion outside of

1163
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 19: Supreme Court rulings before there was the High Amendment, which

1164
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 19: prohibits federal funding for abortion rights. And that's been the

1165
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 19: law of the land as long as Roe v. Wade

1166
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 19: was the law of the land. And so this really

1167
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 19: isn't it's the flip side of that. But this time

1168
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 19: Republicans don't like it.

1169
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 2: I always love spending time with Wendy Benjamins, So any

1170
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 2: things for the analysis, that's great, and Megan, great to

1171
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 2: have you with us as well. Here as part of

1172
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 2: our conversation today on Bloomberg Radio, I'm Joe Matthew alongside

1173
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: Kaylee Lines. We need to get some news and we're

1174
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 2: going to turn next to crypto. They did the surve

1175
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 2: agency this of terminal users kill I did on how

1176
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 2: things are going here in the US. We're laughing for a.

1177
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 12: Reason lit teaser.

1178
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,919
Speaker 2: I bet you can figure out how that way. Nathan

1179
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: Deane's going to join us from Bloomberg Intelligence.

1180
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

1181
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern.

1182
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 9: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

1183
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 5: The Bloomberg Business app.

1184
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

1185
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

1186
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 2: So, Kaylee, here's a question. Is the United States a

1187
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: hospitable place for cryptocurrencies? This is not a trick question,

1188
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: and no it's not a joke. It's actually the very

1189
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 2: question that Bloomberg Intelligence has been asking terminal users in

1190
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:02,240
Speaker 2: the first of three days here. We love the surveys

1191
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 2: at BI and it really lands right in the middle

1192
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: of what you specialize in, of course, among other things,

1193
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 2: that would be crypto in a city that can't figure

1194
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 2: out what to do with it.

1195
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,880
Speaker 12: Yes, this is very true on the regulatory side, on

1196
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 12: the congressional side. When I talk to people on the

1197
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 12: industry side, they will tell you, no, the US is

1198
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 12: not a friendly place. Surprised to be, I mean almost

1199
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 12: without fail that is their answer, which is why you're

1200
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 12: seeing a shift toward other jurisdictions. There's still just a

1201
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 12: lack of clarity. It's proven really really difficult for everyone

1202
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 12: to get their heads around who should have the regulatory authority,

1203
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 12: what Congress ultimately thinks definition wise about what's the security

1204
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 12: and what's the commodity. And we're all still just in

1205
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 12: waiting mode. While Gary Gemsler continues to slap enforcement actions

1206
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:48,080
Speaker 12: on Yeah, but a lot.

1207
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 2: Of Germans says, just come in and register.

1208
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1209
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 2: He talked to David Weston about this just last week.

1210
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 21: I think the crypto industry, more broadly, if it's going

1211
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 21: to have any success going forward, asked to come into

1212
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 21: compliance with basic public policy about disclosure about avoiding conflicts

1213
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 21: about segregating properly segregating customer funds and guarding against fraud manipulation.

1214
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 2: Of course, the groan was heard across the cryptosphere. I'm

1215
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 2: not sure Nathan Dean was groaning, but he was hearing

1216
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,439
Speaker 2: from a lot of folks this week. Nathan, is great

1217
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 2: to see you. Welcome back. Of course, here on Bloomberg Radio,

1218
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 2: we love to compare notes with Nathan Dean and his

1219
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 2: colleagues at Bloomberg Intelligence. So this, I believe you likened

1220
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 2: that question. Is the US a hospitable place for cryptocurrencies too?

1221
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 2: Is water wet?

1222
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1223
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 17: You know, I had a lovely gentleman from Wall Street

1224
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 17: when we sent the survey out respond that way and say,

1225
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 17: you know, why are you even asking this? But you know,

1226
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 17: it's important to note that, you know, crypto firms are

1227
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 17: in this spot at the moment. Where do they want

1228
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 17: to be in the United States or anecdotally do they

1229
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 17: want to pick up their toys and go somewhere else?

1230
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 17: And that's what we were trying to figure out here,

1231
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 17: is is that you know, do you think the US

1232
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 17: is a place for crypto platforms to thrive? And if not,

1233
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 17: where do you want to go. And you know, just

1234
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 17: some of the high level of you views that we

1235
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 17: got from the survey, you know, nearly everybody feels that

1236
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 17: the US is not a hospitable place. The top two

1237
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 17: roadblocks where lack of regulatory clarity and then secondly was

1238
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 17: an aggressive enforcement apparatus, which are sort of tied together.

1239
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 17: So it's really interesting that you know, at least now

1240
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 17: we know that you know this idea of come in

1241
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,960
Speaker 17: and register. It is just it's not resonating with the

1242
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 17: crypto industry. And I promised, I vowed I would never

1243
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 17: use a Star Wars joke on radio again. But it's

1244
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 17: like Admiral Lackbar and Return of the Jedi when he

1245
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 17: screamed out it's a trap. Yeah, going to talk to

1246
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 17: the SEC chairman is a trap. You're either going to

1247
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 17: spend millions and millions of dollars and get nowhere or

1248
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 17: they may say, thank you very much here as an

1249
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 17: enforcement action.

1250
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 5: Right.

1251
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 12: Well, just to put some of the firm numbers around this,

1252
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 12: when we say it was an overwhelming majority ninety one

1253
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 12: percent of respondents that the US fails to provide a

1254
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 12: home for firms and platforms to thrive. Ninety six percent

1255
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 12: of orspondents thought there was a lack of regulatory clarity,

1256
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 12: and then in a question on enforcement risk, one hundred

1257
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 12: percent believed crypto firms in the US should be either

1258
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 12: very concerned or somewhat concerned. I mean it's hard to

1259
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 12: find consensus like that anywhere else.

1260
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 17: Yeah, exactly. I mean you have Coinbase, you have gray Scale,

1261
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 17: you have Gemini, you have Ripple. I mean not, it's

1262
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 17: pretty much if you're operating in crypto in the moment

1263
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 17: in the United States, the SEC may come after you

1264
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 17: because you know, the SEC takes the approach that this

1265
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 17: You know that ninety nine percent in the tokens out there,

1266
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 17: not bitcoin and but pretty much all the others, that

1267
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 17: they are securities, and then you have to follow nineteen

1268
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 17: thirty zero securities law. The cryptocurrency industry disagrees with that.

1269
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,919
Speaker 17: So until you get Congress or the courts to come

1270
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 17: in and actually say this is what the clarity is,

1271
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 17: you know, this is your you're going to have to

1272
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 17: be afraid that the SEC is going to come knock

1273
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 17: on your door at some set.

1274
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 12: Well, I'm glad you mentioned Congress because that's really what

1275
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 12: this comes down to, right, It is up to the

1276
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 12: lawmakers over there on Capitol Hill to delineate what authority

1277
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 12: the SEC has, what authority the CFTC has. And we've

1278
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 12: seen an attempt Dusty Johnson, french Hill, Patrick McHenry, you know,

1279
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 12: the House Ag and Financial Services Committee authored a joint

1280
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:10,439
Speaker 12: bill to try and you know, lay out what market

1281
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 12: structure should look like. Is there a sense that that's

1282
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:13,480
Speaker 12: really going to go anywhere?

1283
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 17: So our survey, seventy five percent of the respondent said

1284
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:19,560
Speaker 17: that they didn't think Congress was going to pass a

1285
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 17: comprehensive framework between the twenty twenty four or before the

1286
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 17: twenty twenty four elections. Should be said, though, that the

1287
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,960
Speaker 17: mckenry Thompson bill came out during the survey period. In

1288
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 17: my own opinion, that is a very comprehensive and complex

1289
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 17: bill that I don't think what pass as is but

1290
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 17: certainly needs to serve as a debate of what the

1291
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 17: future crypto look because they spend a lot of time

1292
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 17: on that, and you know, it delineates what is the

1293
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 17: SEC versus what is the CFTC authority? You know, what

1294
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 17: is a security? What is a commodity? Allows you to

1295
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 17: register as what is known as an alternative trading system

1296
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 17: or digital commodity exchange. There's a lot of definitions in there.

1297
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 17: It could it's a good starting point. But if they

1298
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 17: don't ever if the cryptocurrency industry doesn't ever get a

1299
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 17: democratic skeptic democrats to come on board and say, we

1300
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,479
Speaker 17: think this is all just you know that this can

1301
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 17: fit within the CFTC and the SEC. It's just it's

1302
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 17: not going to go anywhere, and this uncertainty is going

1303
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 17: to remain.

1304
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,520
Speaker 2: Tell us how these how you do the surveys here,

1305
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 2: because you're actually talking to terminal users specifically, right, how

1306
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 2: do you reach them? Is there anyone else involved?

1307
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 17: Well, you know, we certainly advertise our surveys. You know,

1308
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 17: we have abilities to reach out to terminal clients. And

1309
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 17: one of the things that the terminal clients love best

1310
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 17: about this is that it's you know, you get a

1311
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 17: flavor of what other terminal clients are thinking, because you know,

1312
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 17: if you're sitting in Manhattan, for example, you may not

1313
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 17: know what the folks who have terminals down in Miami

1314
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 17: are sitting. Or you know, you may be a byside analyst,

1315
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 17: you don't know what the sell side analyst is saying,

1316
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 17: and so forth.

1317
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 5: Like that.

1318
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 17: So you know, we share these results with anybody who

1319
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 17: takes the surveys, and you know, it's been pretty successful

1320
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 17: and trying to get a good flavor of what people

1321
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 17: are thinking.

1322
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 12: And I would, don't you do get kind of granular

1323
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 12: when it comes to specific litigation regarding the sec We

1324
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 12: all know Binance Coinbase has been slapped with it. There's

1325
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 12: ongoing lawsuit when it comes to Ripple and whether XRP

1326
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 12: was an unregistered security. And the survey participants thought Coinbase

1327
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 12: was actually probably most likely to win.

1328
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 17: Yeah, and that's a consensus with what the b IVEW

1329
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 17: I mean the b IVU is a coinbase has a

1330
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 17: decent shot. Now the caveat is that it may go

1331
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 17: all the way to report and we may be doing

1332
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 17: this in twenty twenty six. You know, the one surprising

1333
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 17: thing from that question is that forty percent of respondents

1334
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 17: thought that gray Scale was going to have ability to

1335
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 17: beat their suit. This this actually differs from our view,

1336
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 17: the b I house view, which is my callegue, Elliott

1337
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 17: Stein is giving them a seventy percent chance of winning.

1338
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 17: And so you know, if there's some negativity out there

1339
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 17: and they market about gray Scale, well you know, maybe

1340
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 17: they can be a little bit more optimistic if they're

1341
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 17: going to follow the b iView.

1342
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 2: Fascinating as always, how do folks find the survey here?

1343
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 17: So it's on the terminal, you know, just go to

1344
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 17: our dashboard B I L A W S BI LAWS

1345
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:56,919
Speaker 17: and it's right there.

1346
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:58,920
Speaker 2: And you've got two more days of this coming, right. Yeah,

1347
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 2: So we're gonna we'll keep filling you in on what

1348
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 2: we learned from the only member of the Bloomberg Intelligence

1349
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 2: crew who shows up with a Star Wars reference on

1350
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 2: this program, Kaylee, and we love him for it.

1351
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 5: It's a yes.

1352
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 2: That would be Bloomberg Intelligence Senior analyst Nathan de Many.

1353
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 2: Thanks Nathan for being with us with Katie Lines in Washington.

1354
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to

1355
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:28,640
Speaker 2: the Sound on podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you

1356
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 2: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get

1357
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 2: your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday

1358
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 2: from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg

1359
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 2: dot com.