1 00:00:15,236 --> 00:00:27,436 Speaker 1: Pushkin. The first time I voted in the presidential election 2 00:00:27,596 --> 00:00:31,796 Speaker 1: was November seventh, two. I can still remember that night, 3 00:00:32,076 --> 00:00:34,836 Speaker 1: watching the results in my dorm room at Florida and 4 00:00:34,956 --> 00:00:38,716 Speaker 1: M University. We rooted against George W. Bush, like we 5 00:00:38,836 --> 00:00:42,476 Speaker 1: rooted against our football rivals, on the edge of our seats, 6 00:00:42,916 --> 00:00:47,796 Speaker 1: shouting at the same TV. Like many black people in Florida, 7 00:00:47,876 --> 00:00:51,516 Speaker 1: we were angry that Bush's brother, Florida Governor Jed Bush, 8 00:00:51,916 --> 00:00:56,356 Speaker 1: had recently terminated the state's affirmative action programs, and like 9 00:00:56,476 --> 00:00:59,956 Speaker 1: many Black Americans, we had heard about the disgraceful Willie 10 00:00:59,956 --> 00:01:03,756 Speaker 1: Horton ad his father ran decades earlier on his way 11 00:01:03,796 --> 00:01:07,036 Speaker 1: to the White House. Bush supports the death penalty for 12 00:01:07,196 --> 00:01:10,876 Speaker 1: first degree murderers. Newconka not only opposed to the death penalty, 13 00:01:11,036 --> 00:01:14,316 Speaker 1: he allowed first degree murderers to have weekend passes from prison. 14 00:01:15,076 --> 00:01:17,716 Speaker 1: One was Willie Horton, who murdered a boy and a robbery, 15 00:01:17,756 --> 00:01:22,036 Speaker 1: stabbing him nineteen times. We viewed our ballots as lifeboats 16 00:01:22,476 --> 00:01:26,796 Speaker 1: cast to save America from four more years of the Bushes. 17 00:01:29,516 --> 00:01:33,156 Speaker 1: As the hours passed, we realized that Florida would determine 18 00:01:33,196 --> 00:01:37,916 Speaker 1: the election's outcome and the nation's future. Shortly after our 19 00:01:37,956 --> 00:01:42,716 Speaker 1: local polls closed, several news networks declared our gore the 20 00:01:42,756 --> 00:01:46,596 Speaker 1: next president of the United States. When ours did, we 21 00:01:46,716 --> 00:01:49,876 Speaker 1: turned off the TV, relieved and went back to our 22 00:01:49,916 --> 00:02:00,716 Speaker 1: dorm rooms. The relief was welcome and short lived. I'm 23 00:02:00,756 --> 00:02:07,196 Speaker 1: ibramex Kendy, and this is be anti racist. The next morning, 24 00:02:07,276 --> 00:02:10,396 Speaker 1: I was shocked to learn that George W. Bush was 25 00:02:10,516 --> 00:02:13,156 Speaker 1: narrowly winning the Florida race that had been called the 26 00:02:13,276 --> 00:02:17,396 Speaker 1: night before. The election was now declared too close to call. 27 00:02:19,116 --> 00:02:22,036 Speaker 1: As votes were recounted. In the weeks that followed, I 28 00:02:22,156 --> 00:02:25,716 Speaker 1: heard story after story of voter suppression from classmates in 29 00:02:25,756 --> 00:02:30,276 Speaker 1: their families back home. Stories of black citizens who registered 30 00:02:30,356 --> 00:02:35,076 Speaker 1: but never received registration cards. Stories of polling locations being 31 00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:39,516 Speaker 1: changed without warning. Stories of people who were unlawfully denied 32 00:02:39,516 --> 00:02:43,156 Speaker 1: a ballot for showing up without a registration card they 33 00:02:43,156 --> 00:02:46,276 Speaker 1: had never received in the first place. Stories of people 34 00:02:46,356 --> 00:02:49,756 Speaker 1: waiting in line for hours and being ordered to leave 35 00:02:49,796 --> 00:02:54,036 Speaker 1: the lines when the polls closed. Stories of hanging chads 36 00:02:54,596 --> 00:03:00,636 Speaker 1: or uncounted votes and miscounted ballots. Gaston County, an hour 37 00:03:00,716 --> 00:03:04,116 Speaker 1: down the road from FAMU, had both the highest percentage 38 00:03:04,116 --> 00:03:07,716 Speaker 1: of black voters in the highest rate of rejected votes. 39 00:03:08,316 --> 00:03:11,436 Speaker 1: Black voters were ten times more likely than white voters 40 00:03:11,596 --> 00:03:14,756 Speaker 1: to have their ballots rejected. The New York Times would 41 00:03:14,836 --> 00:03:18,756 Speaker 1: later conclude that this ballot disparity could not be explained 42 00:03:18,756 --> 00:03:23,156 Speaker 1: by income, educational levels, or by hanging chads. There was 43 00:03:23,196 --> 00:03:30,356 Speaker 1: only one explanation for the disparity, racism. On December twelfth, 44 00:03:30,796 --> 00:03:33,956 Speaker 1: more than a month after election day, the US Supreme 45 00:03:33,996 --> 00:03:39,116 Speaker 1: Court stopped Florida's recount. Almost two hundred thousand ballots were 46 00:03:39,156 --> 00:03:42,916 Speaker 1: invalidated by Florida's election officials. With the help of his 47 00:03:43,076 --> 00:03:46,636 Speaker 1: legal team, George Bush went on to win Florida and 48 00:03:46,796 --> 00:03:49,636 Speaker 1: the White House by a mere five hundred and thirty 49 00:03:49,636 --> 00:03:53,796 Speaker 1: seven votes. My first dance as an American voter was 50 00:03:53,876 --> 00:03:58,716 Speaker 1: met with a stampede of racist voter suppression. Two decades later, 51 00:03:58,836 --> 00:04:03,556 Speaker 1: that stampede has swept a nation. Republicans figure that suppressing 52 00:04:03,596 --> 00:04:07,156 Speaker 1: the votes of their political opponents can counteract their failure 53 00:04:07,316 --> 00:04:11,116 Speaker 1: to attract the majority of voters. Their cries of voter 54 00:04:11,276 --> 00:04:15,356 Speaker 1: fraud echo the great lie many former slaveholders use to 55 00:04:15,476 --> 00:04:18,836 Speaker 1: destroy the voting power of black and working class white 56 00:04:18,836 --> 00:04:22,756 Speaker 1: people in the late nineteenth century and allow Republicans to 57 00:04:22,796 --> 00:04:26,916 Speaker 1: claim that new restrictions are needed to protect the integrity 58 00:04:26,956 --> 00:04:31,836 Speaker 1: of the democratic process. An election provided my anti racist 59 00:04:31,876 --> 00:04:35,236 Speaker 1: wake up call, and now two decades later, a new 60 00:04:35,276 --> 00:04:38,676 Speaker 1: generation is waking up to just how fraud and how 61 00:04:38,716 --> 00:04:43,716 Speaker 1: corrupt and how racist these Republican elected officials pushing these 62 00:04:43,756 --> 00:04:52,076 Speaker 1: new voter restrictions truly are welcome. To Be Anti Racist 63 00:04:52,516 --> 00:04:57,156 Speaker 1: an action podcast where we discuss how to diagnose, dismantle, 64 00:04:57,236 --> 00:05:01,636 Speaker 1: and abolish racism, how to save humanity from the divisiveness 65 00:05:01,716 --> 00:05:06,756 Speaker 1: of racist ideas and the destructiveness of racist power and policy, 66 00:05:07,116 --> 00:05:10,436 Speaker 1: How to free humanity through the unity of anti racist 67 00:05:10,516 --> 00:05:14,916 Speaker 1: ideas and the constructiveness of anti racist power and policy. 68 00:05:15,596 --> 00:05:18,836 Speaker 1: On Be Anti Racist, we discuss how to make the 69 00:05:18,916 --> 00:05:23,076 Speaker 1: impossible possible, and how to bring into being what modern 70 00:05:23,196 --> 00:05:29,716 Speaker 1: humans have never known, a just and equitable world. You ready, 71 00:05:30,636 --> 00:05:47,876 Speaker 1: let's roll. Give us the ballot and we will no 72 00:05:48,036 --> 00:05:52,156 Speaker 1: longer have to worry the federal government about our basic rights. 73 00:05:52,876 --> 00:05:56,876 Speaker 1: Give us the ballot and we will no longer plead 74 00:05:57,036 --> 00:06:01,556 Speaker 1: to the federal government for passage of an anti lynching law. 75 00:06:02,236 --> 00:06:06,316 Speaker 1: We will buy the power of our vote right the 76 00:06:06,476 --> 00:06:09,556 Speaker 1: law on the statue of Books of the South, and 77 00:06:09,756 --> 00:06:13,436 Speaker 1: bringing in to the dastardly acts of the hooded perpetrators 78 00:06:13,436 --> 00:06:18,396 Speaker 1: of violence. Give us the ballot, and we will transform 79 00:06:18,556 --> 00:06:22,916 Speaker 1: the salient misdeeds of blood feesht de mobs and to 80 00:06:23,116 --> 00:06:28,556 Speaker 1: the calculated good deeds of orderless citizens. Doctor Martin Luther 81 00:06:28,676 --> 00:06:32,996 Speaker 1: King Jr. Gave that speech in nineteen fifty seven. It 82 00:06:33,036 --> 00:06:35,676 Speaker 1: would be a long, hard journey for him, for so 83 00:06:35,716 --> 00:06:38,956 Speaker 1: many anti racist activists to the Voting Rights Act of 84 00:06:39,036 --> 00:06:42,596 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, And as I witnessed in the election 85 00:06:42,636 --> 00:06:47,156 Speaker 1: of two thousand and many are witnessing today that journey 86 00:06:47,636 --> 00:06:52,196 Speaker 1: is ongoing. These battles over the vote are a side show. 87 00:06:52,676 --> 00:06:57,396 Speaker 1: There are few, if any, storylines more central to American history. 88 00:06:58,436 --> 00:07:02,156 Speaker 1: That's why I'm grateful for journalists like Ari Berman. He is, 89 00:07:02,196 --> 00:07:06,316 Speaker 1: without question, one of the leading journalists documenting voter suppression 90 00:07:06,476 --> 00:07:09,956 Speaker 1: in the United States today. He is the author Give 91 00:07:10,076 --> 00:07:13,916 Speaker 1: Us the Ballot, The Modern Struggle for Voting Rights in America, 92 00:07:13,996 --> 00:07:17,396 Speaker 1: which chronicles the history of voter suppression after the Voting 93 00:07:17,476 --> 00:07:20,876 Speaker 1: Rights Act of nineteen sixty five. He covers voting rights 94 00:07:20,876 --> 00:07:24,156 Speaker 1: at Mother Jones and is the perfect person to anchor 95 00:07:24,196 --> 00:07:27,236 Speaker 1: a conversation on voter suppression and the type of anti 96 00:07:27,316 --> 00:07:33,636 Speaker 1: racist policies. We need to build a multiracial democracy. Ari. 97 00:07:33,836 --> 00:07:36,276 Speaker 1: I'm so glad we're able to sit down and have 98 00:07:36,436 --> 00:07:41,316 Speaker 1: this conversation. It feels like the nation is in a 99 00:07:41,396 --> 00:07:46,716 Speaker 1: place that you have been pointing towards and speaking about, 100 00:07:47,076 --> 00:07:50,956 Speaker 1: really certainly since your book Give Us the Ballot came 101 00:07:50,996 --> 00:07:54,436 Speaker 1: out six years ago, but even before then, and it 102 00:07:54,556 --> 00:07:58,916 Speaker 1: seems as if on some level, the American people are 103 00:07:59,076 --> 00:08:03,116 Speaker 1: waking up to what you've been writing about for quite 104 00:08:03,116 --> 00:08:05,916 Speaker 1: some time. I think you're right. One of the reasons 105 00:08:06,076 --> 00:08:10,316 Speaker 1: they're waking up, though, is because of the sad fact 106 00:08:10,356 --> 00:08:12,756 Speaker 1: that voter suppression is not a thing of the past, 107 00:08:13,316 --> 00:08:15,036 Speaker 1: and it's in a lot of ways the same thing 108 00:08:15,036 --> 00:08:17,996 Speaker 1: with your work. Right, people are waking up to the 109 00:08:18,036 --> 00:08:21,476 Speaker 1: reality of racism and white supremacy because these things are 110 00:08:21,516 --> 00:08:24,516 Speaker 1: all too evident these days, and in many ways, your 111 00:08:24,556 --> 00:08:26,956 Speaker 1: writing was ahead of its time, and I think the 112 00:08:27,036 --> 00:08:29,116 Speaker 1: same thing happened with a lot of the stuff I 113 00:08:29,156 --> 00:08:32,916 Speaker 1: wrote about. When I started covering voter suppression a decade ago, 114 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:36,516 Speaker 1: people didn't even realize that voter suppression was still a thing. 115 00:08:37,116 --> 00:08:39,476 Speaker 1: And when I wrote my book about the history of 116 00:08:39,516 --> 00:08:41,716 Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act in twenty fifteen, a lot of 117 00:08:41,716 --> 00:08:44,596 Speaker 1: people weren't even aware that the Voting Rights Act had 118 00:08:44,636 --> 00:08:48,516 Speaker 1: been weakened, or that there were new voter suppression efforts 119 00:08:48,516 --> 00:08:50,956 Speaker 1: in the wake of the efforts to weaken the Voting 120 00:08:51,036 --> 00:08:52,876 Speaker 1: Rights Act. So I think there's a lot more awareness 121 00:08:52,996 --> 00:08:56,436 Speaker 1: in general about the fact that voting rights are under threat. 122 00:08:56,676 --> 00:08:59,516 Speaker 1: But part of the reason there's more awareness is because 123 00:08:59,956 --> 00:09:03,676 Speaker 1: voting rights are under threat, and that's the disturbing and 124 00:09:03,756 --> 00:09:07,836 Speaker 1: less hopeful part of the story. Yeah, definitely, So certainly 125 00:09:08,116 --> 00:09:10,436 Speaker 1: there's a growing number of people who are becoming aware. 126 00:09:10,996 --> 00:09:14,876 Speaker 1: But I'm just curious, since your awareness came long before 127 00:09:14,956 --> 00:09:18,556 Speaker 1: the awareness of so many people, what sparked your personal awareness. 128 00:09:18,996 --> 00:09:22,316 Speaker 1: I became aware of the issue of voting rights in 129 00:09:22,356 --> 00:09:24,836 Speaker 1: the attack on voting rights about a decade ago, And 130 00:09:24,956 --> 00:09:28,636 Speaker 1: this was after the twenty ten election and a bunch 131 00:09:28,716 --> 00:09:32,756 Speaker 1: of states flipped over from blue to red, places like 132 00:09:32,996 --> 00:09:38,196 Speaker 1: Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and North Carolina. And the first thing 133 00:09:38,396 --> 00:09:43,676 Speaker 1: all of these newly Republican controlled states did was passed 134 00:09:43,756 --> 00:09:46,396 Speaker 1: new laws to make it harder to vote. This was 135 00:09:46,756 --> 00:09:49,556 Speaker 1: back in twenty eleven, and it wasn't getting a lot 136 00:09:49,556 --> 00:09:51,876 Speaker 1: of coverage. This is when we saw the first real 137 00:09:51,956 --> 00:09:55,116 Speaker 1: voter id laws, efforts to cut back on early voting, 138 00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:58,236 Speaker 1: efforts to close polling places, purge the voter rolls, things 139 00:09:58,276 --> 00:10:00,316 Speaker 1: like that, and it clearly seemed to me to be 140 00:10:00,356 --> 00:10:04,076 Speaker 1: an attempt to try to nullify the election of the 141 00:10:04,116 --> 00:10:07,476 Speaker 1: first black president and to try to create an electorate 142 00:10:07,516 --> 00:10:11,276 Speaker 1: that would be older, wider, more servative, as opposed to younger, 143 00:10:11,436 --> 00:10:15,276 Speaker 1: more diverse, more progressive. And then when the Supreme Court 144 00:10:15,316 --> 00:10:17,916 Speaker 1: heard a challenge to the Voting Rights Act, this was 145 00:10:18,116 --> 00:10:20,756 Speaker 1: after the twenty twelve election, and they released the decision 146 00:10:21,116 --> 00:10:23,916 Speaker 1: in June of twenty thirteen gutting the Voting Rights Act, 147 00:10:24,276 --> 00:10:26,196 Speaker 1: I became a lot more interested in the history of 148 00:10:26,196 --> 00:10:29,036 Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act, what it had done, and also 149 00:10:29,116 --> 00:10:32,116 Speaker 1: why it was being challenged. That really is what led 150 00:10:32,156 --> 00:10:34,836 Speaker 1: me deeper into the research for my book, Give Us 151 00:10:34,876 --> 00:10:37,796 Speaker 1: the Ballot. And then it just became a much bigger 152 00:10:37,836 --> 00:10:41,916 Speaker 1: issue once the Supreme Court had weakened the law. Your 153 00:10:41,956 --> 00:10:46,356 Speaker 1: book and others have since documented that almost as quickly 154 00:10:46,396 --> 00:10:49,756 Speaker 1: as it was passed, that attack on the Voting Rights 155 00:10:49,756 --> 00:10:55,116 Speaker 1: Act began, and it's been policies and practices and ways 156 00:10:55,156 --> 00:10:57,356 Speaker 1: to undermine it and ways to make it harder for 157 00:10:57,396 --> 00:11:00,716 Speaker 1: people to vote ever since. But why do you think 158 00:11:01,476 --> 00:11:05,276 Speaker 1: so many people had not seen and even so many 159 00:11:05,316 --> 00:11:11,276 Speaker 1: scholars had not documented the attacks Act. I think a 160 00:11:11,276 --> 00:11:13,836 Speaker 1: lot of people for many years took the Voting Rights 161 00:11:13,836 --> 00:11:16,276 Speaker 1: Act for granted. I know I took it for granted 162 00:11:16,316 --> 00:11:19,596 Speaker 1: before I started reporting on it. I thought there was 163 00:11:19,636 --> 00:11:23,476 Speaker 1: a general consensus in favor of protecting the right to vote. 164 00:11:23,476 --> 00:11:25,396 Speaker 1: And it was only when I saw these new restrictions 165 00:11:25,396 --> 00:11:28,036 Speaker 1: on voting rights, and when I saw the effort to 166 00:11:28,116 --> 00:11:30,316 Speaker 1: challenge the Voting Rights Act, that I became a lot 167 00:11:30,356 --> 00:11:34,116 Speaker 1: more aware of the history behind it and realized that basically, 168 00:11:34,596 --> 00:11:37,156 Speaker 1: not only was there a titanic struggle to pass the 169 00:11:37,236 --> 00:11:40,836 Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act, but there was a huge struggle just 170 00:11:40,916 --> 00:11:44,236 Speaker 1: to maintain and expand it over the next fifty years 171 00:11:44,796 --> 00:11:48,836 Speaker 1: after Selma, after Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act 172 00:11:48,876 --> 00:11:51,556 Speaker 1: on August six, nineteen sixty five, I think the general 173 00:11:51,596 --> 00:11:54,516 Speaker 1: perception was, Okay, well, we solve that problem, let's move 174 00:11:54,556 --> 00:11:57,036 Speaker 1: on to the next one. And so there were voting 175 00:11:57,116 --> 00:12:01,676 Speaker 1: rights lawyers, there were voting rights historians, there were experts, 176 00:12:01,796 --> 00:12:04,356 Speaker 1: but it wasn't really thought of as a central civil 177 00:12:04,436 --> 00:12:08,156 Speaker 1: rights struggle. And I think It really took the Shelby 178 00:12:08,196 --> 00:12:10,796 Speaker 1: County Versus Holder decision in twenty thirteen and then the 179 00:12:10,876 --> 00:12:14,876 Speaker 1: aftermath of that decision to realize for many people that 180 00:12:14,916 --> 00:12:17,836 Speaker 1: the fight for voting rights wasn't over, and then in 181 00:12:17,876 --> 00:12:22,636 Speaker 1: many ways it remained a very big and titanic civil 182 00:12:22,716 --> 00:12:26,276 Speaker 1: rights struggle. You know, in my work a document how 183 00:12:26,916 --> 00:12:33,076 Speaker 1: political or economic or even cultural self interest leads to 184 00:12:33,516 --> 00:12:39,356 Speaker 1: racist policies like voter suppression. But then typically a justification 185 00:12:39,476 --> 00:12:43,516 Speaker 1: has to be born to rationalize and normalize and makes 186 00:12:43,556 --> 00:12:47,116 Speaker 1: sense of those policies. And in your work you've documented 187 00:12:47,636 --> 00:12:53,676 Speaker 1: how the principal justification has been this idea of voter fraud. Yeah, 188 00:12:53,716 --> 00:12:57,196 Speaker 1: invoking voter fraud to justify voter suppression has been around 189 00:12:57,316 --> 00:12:59,676 Speaker 1: for a very long time and has a really ugly 190 00:12:59,756 --> 00:13:02,356 Speaker 1: history in this country. I mean, that's what in many 191 00:13:02,396 --> 00:13:06,276 Speaker 1: ways was invoked at the end of Reconstruction by white 192 00:13:06,276 --> 00:13:09,796 Speaker 1: segregationists to justify literacy tests and poll te and things 193 00:13:09,836 --> 00:13:12,356 Speaker 1: like that. Yes, they were explicit about the fact that 194 00:13:12,356 --> 00:13:15,196 Speaker 1: they wanted to uphold white supremacy, but one of the 195 00:13:15,196 --> 00:13:18,236 Speaker 1: reasons why they said they wanted to uphold white supremacy 196 00:13:18,876 --> 00:13:21,836 Speaker 1: is that they believed that Blacks and others had sullied 197 00:13:21,916 --> 00:13:25,396 Speaker 1: the ballot box through fraud, and so they were restoring 198 00:13:25,436 --> 00:13:28,716 Speaker 1: the integrity of the election. You heard that argument be 199 00:13:28,836 --> 00:13:31,556 Speaker 1: made against the Voting Rights Act in nineteen sixty five. 200 00:13:31,596 --> 00:13:33,796 Speaker 1: If you go back and listen to what George Wallace 201 00:13:33,836 --> 00:13:36,796 Speaker 1: and other governors were saying about the Voting Rights Act. 202 00:13:36,836 --> 00:13:38,156 Speaker 1: They were saying that it was going to lead to 203 00:13:38,156 --> 00:13:42,916 Speaker 1: widespread fraud, bringing in uneducated African Americans to the ballot box, 204 00:13:42,956 --> 00:13:46,876 Speaker 1: illiterates who couldn't be trusted with the ballot. That was 205 00:13:46,956 --> 00:13:49,476 Speaker 1: an ideological argument, but it was also one that really 206 00:13:49,516 --> 00:13:52,956 Speaker 1: had no basis in fact. And so when they wanted 207 00:13:53,116 --> 00:13:56,556 Speaker 1: to once again try to suppress the vote, they had 208 00:13:56,596 --> 00:13:59,516 Speaker 1: to have a justification for doing so, and so voter 209 00:13:59,636 --> 00:14:03,836 Speaker 1: fraud became their justification, and they tried really hard to 210 00:14:03,876 --> 00:14:06,036 Speaker 1: find evidence for it. They've never been able to find 211 00:14:06,036 --> 00:14:07,916 Speaker 1: any major evidence for it. But I think it's been 212 00:14:07,916 --> 00:14:10,396 Speaker 1: one of those things where if you just say something 213 00:14:10,556 --> 00:14:13,316 Speaker 1: enough times, people start to believe it. Yeah, And I 214 00:14:13,356 --> 00:14:16,916 Speaker 1: think that's what happened with this. Approximately how many people 215 00:14:17,036 --> 00:14:22,276 Speaker 1: overall voted last year and how many documented cases of 216 00:14:22,356 --> 00:14:27,076 Speaker 1: voter fraud were there in the twenty twenty election. So 217 00:14:27,236 --> 00:14:31,316 Speaker 1: about one hundred and sixty one million people voted in 218 00:14:31,356 --> 00:14:33,796 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election. It was the highest turnout in 219 00:14:33,836 --> 00:14:36,996 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty years. And as far as I know, 220 00:14:37,156 --> 00:14:41,116 Speaker 1: I have only seen two documented cases of voter fraud 221 00:14:41,156 --> 00:14:45,316 Speaker 1: in the entire election. It was two people say two 222 00:14:45,356 --> 00:14:50,116 Speaker 1: million or two two cases? Did I say two million? No? 223 00:14:50,236 --> 00:14:52,196 Speaker 1: I just want to make sure, because you know, we've 224 00:14:52,236 --> 00:14:56,356 Speaker 1: been hearing about all this widespread voter fraud, and so 225 00:14:56,476 --> 00:15:00,236 Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty million people voted and you're saying 226 00:15:00,276 --> 00:15:03,996 Speaker 1: there was you've only heard of two documented cases. I've 227 00:15:04,036 --> 00:15:08,196 Speaker 1: heard of two documented cases in Pennsylvania where people wrote 228 00:15:08,236 --> 00:15:11,356 Speaker 1: in dead relatives voting for Donald Trump. Those are the 229 00:15:11,396 --> 00:15:14,516 Speaker 1: only two documented cases I've seen. I'm sure there is 230 00:15:14,556 --> 00:15:19,556 Speaker 1: more under investigation. But when it came time for the 231 00:15:19,596 --> 00:15:22,916 Speaker 1: Trump campaign to file at sixty lawsuits trying to overturn 232 00:15:23,236 --> 00:15:25,116 Speaker 1: the integrity of the election, which is when they would 233 00:15:25,156 --> 00:15:28,356 Speaker 1: put all their evidence on the table, they presented zero 234 00:15:28,436 --> 00:15:32,356 Speaker 1: cases over and over and over of actual frauds. So 235 00:15:32,396 --> 00:15:36,796 Speaker 1: there was a tremendous amount of allegations of fraud, but 236 00:15:36,996 --> 00:15:42,956 Speaker 1: just an infinitesimal number of actual documented instances and that's 237 00:15:42,956 --> 00:15:47,116 Speaker 1: what I find so interesting. The rhetoric is so overblown 238 00:15:47,476 --> 00:15:50,036 Speaker 1: when you compare it to the actual numbers in reality 239 00:15:50,036 --> 00:15:53,076 Speaker 1: of how rare voter fraud is in this country, and 240 00:15:53,596 --> 00:15:59,876 Speaker 1: that voter fraud is now justifying, from my understanding, hundreds 241 00:15:59,876 --> 00:16:05,236 Speaker 1: of bills in what forty seven states? Yeah, three hundred 242 00:16:05,236 --> 00:16:08,196 Speaker 1: and sixty one new restrictions on voting have been introduced 243 00:16:08,236 --> 00:16:11,556 Speaker 1: in forty seven in states in the first three months 244 00:16:11,596 --> 00:16:14,116 Speaker 1: of this year. I'm sure that number will be much 245 00:16:14,196 --> 00:16:17,516 Speaker 1: higher by the time people are listening to this. But 246 00:16:18,036 --> 00:16:21,516 Speaker 1: it's just incredible the extent to which the Republicans and 247 00:16:21,556 --> 00:16:26,716 Speaker 1: Trump in particular, manufactured this crisis and then pointed to 248 00:16:26,796 --> 00:16:30,596 Speaker 1: the crisis they manufactured as a reason to introduce these 249 00:16:30,636 --> 00:16:33,996 Speaker 1: sweeping restrictions on the ballot. I mean, it was incredibly 250 00:16:34,036 --> 00:16:38,636 Speaker 1: cynical from the very beginning. First, you try to undermine 251 00:16:38,676 --> 00:16:40,876 Speaker 1: people's faith in the electoral process so they don't vote 252 00:16:40,916 --> 00:16:43,676 Speaker 1: in the first place. Then when they vote, you try 253 00:16:43,676 --> 00:16:45,676 Speaker 1: to throw out their votes. And then when you can't 254 00:16:45,676 --> 00:16:47,836 Speaker 1: throw out their votes, you then make it so that 255 00:16:47,996 --> 00:16:50,156 Speaker 1: they have a harder time voting in the next election. 256 00:16:50,196 --> 00:16:51,756 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a strategy, or this is a 257 00:16:51,796 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 1: plan here. This is a roadmap here. I think a 258 00:16:53,396 --> 00:16:56,476 Speaker 1: lot of people are not connecting one to the other 259 00:16:56,556 --> 00:16:59,396 Speaker 1: to the other, and so I see a clear narrative 260 00:16:59,636 --> 00:17:02,116 Speaker 1: from efforts to make it harder to vote before the 261 00:17:02,156 --> 00:17:05,076 Speaker 1: twenty twenty election. Efforts are trying to throw out votes, 262 00:17:05,556 --> 00:17:09,236 Speaker 1: the violent insurrection at the capitol to nullify votes, and 263 00:17:09,276 --> 00:17:11,756 Speaker 1: then the effort and all of these state legislatures around 264 00:17:11,796 --> 00:17:13,716 Speaker 1: the country to try to make it harder to vote 265 00:17:13,716 --> 00:17:18,236 Speaker 1: in future elections and basically to try to succeed legislatively 266 00:17:18,596 --> 00:17:22,076 Speaker 1: where Trump failed through the courts and through just outright intimidation. 267 00:17:22,396 --> 00:17:25,476 Speaker 1: And that's really what reminds me of the Jim Crow era, 268 00:17:26,036 --> 00:17:28,796 Speaker 1: because in the Jim Crow era, first they relied on 269 00:17:28,996 --> 00:17:31,516 Speaker 1: violence and fraud to keep Blacks away from the polls. 270 00:17:31,676 --> 00:17:34,116 Speaker 1: But then they realized that was too difficult, so they 271 00:17:34,156 --> 00:17:36,756 Speaker 1: actually had to enshrine all of these things into law. 272 00:17:37,036 --> 00:17:40,036 Speaker 1: And it was only when the literacy tests and the 273 00:17:40,116 --> 00:17:43,156 Speaker 1: poll taxes and the property requirements of the white primaries 274 00:17:43,156 --> 00:17:47,716 Speaker 1: were enshrined into law through so called legal means, that 275 00:17:47,756 --> 00:17:51,876 Speaker 1: then they really succeeded in disenfranchising black voters. And they 276 00:17:51,916 --> 00:17:56,316 Speaker 1: succeeded in disenfranchising them, not through illegal means, although they 277 00:17:56,316 --> 00:17:59,316 Speaker 1: obviously did through violence and fraud and intimidation, But it 278 00:17:59,356 --> 00:18:03,316 Speaker 1: was really through the legal process, through state legislatures, through 279 00:18:03,316 --> 00:18:06,796 Speaker 1: the courts that they succeeded in the ultimate disenfranchisement. And 280 00:18:06,836 --> 00:18:09,996 Speaker 1: I think that's what makes the story so chilling, and 281 00:18:10,076 --> 00:18:12,756 Speaker 1: I think that's what is so concerning about what's happening today. 282 00:18:12,756 --> 00:18:16,436 Speaker 1: Are they going to succeed through legal means where they 283 00:18:16,436 --> 00:18:24,596 Speaker 1: didn't succeed through illegal means. I'm Ari Berman, and you 284 00:18:24,636 --> 00:18:29,396 Speaker 1: are listening to be anti racist with Abram X Kendy. 285 00:18:34,716 --> 00:18:39,756 Speaker 1: Obviously there is a clear attack on the ability of 286 00:18:39,756 --> 00:18:44,116 Speaker 1: the American people, not just people who vote Democrat, even 287 00:18:44,156 --> 00:18:47,876 Speaker 1: people who vote Republican, people of all racial groups. It's 288 00:18:47,916 --> 00:18:50,796 Speaker 1: harder for people to vote now. Of course, black and 289 00:18:50,876 --> 00:18:54,516 Speaker 1: brown and Indigenous people due to these voter restrictions, it's 290 00:18:54,516 --> 00:18:58,276 Speaker 1: even harder for them to vote. But I'm curious, how 291 00:18:58,316 --> 00:19:03,596 Speaker 1: can we re establish and strengthen American democracy. Well, I 292 00:19:03,636 --> 00:19:06,636 Speaker 1: think there's two really important pieces of legislation that are 293 00:19:06,676 --> 00:19:10,276 Speaker 1: moving their way through Congress. The People Act, which would 294 00:19:10,316 --> 00:19:13,676 Speaker 1: put in place sweeping protections for voting rights so that 295 00:19:13,716 --> 00:19:18,356 Speaker 1: every state would have things like automatic registration, election day registration, 296 00:19:18,596 --> 00:19:21,116 Speaker 1: two weeks of early voting. There would be lots of 297 00:19:21,156 --> 00:19:23,836 Speaker 1: protections for voters no matter what state you live in. 298 00:19:23,876 --> 00:19:26,716 Speaker 1: And then there's a companion piece of legislation, the John 299 00:19:26,836 --> 00:19:31,356 Speaker 1: Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act, to restore the part of 300 00:19:31,396 --> 00:19:33,196 Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act of the Supreme Court gut it 301 00:19:33,236 --> 00:19:35,756 Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen. And I think that's critically important as well, 302 00:19:35,836 --> 00:19:39,676 Speaker 1: because there are certain states like Georgia that just discriminate 303 00:19:39,756 --> 00:19:42,716 Speaker 1: over and over again. So it's both a carrot and 304 00:19:42,756 --> 00:19:45,556 Speaker 1: sticks approach that for the people. Act would put in 305 00:19:45,556 --> 00:19:47,956 Speaker 1: place a lot of reforms, a lot of pro voter 306 00:19:48,036 --> 00:19:50,316 Speaker 1: policies that would help people, and the John Lewis Voting 307 00:19:50,396 --> 00:19:54,316 Speaker 1: Rights Act would block the worst policies from emerging from 308 00:19:54,316 --> 00:19:57,356 Speaker 1: the states that are repeat offenders, definitely, and especially with 309 00:19:57,436 --> 00:20:02,276 Speaker 1: the Lewis Act, some of the states or jurisdictions that 310 00:20:02,316 --> 00:20:05,356 Speaker 1: would apply would be those who have discriminated over the 311 00:20:05,396 --> 00:20:09,476 Speaker 1: course of time, and others would be new discriminators. I'm 312 00:20:09,516 --> 00:20:12,636 Speaker 1: reminded of a piece that you wrote following the twenty 313 00:20:12,956 --> 00:20:16,596 Speaker 1: sixteen election in which you specifically looked at Wisconsin and 314 00:20:16,716 --> 00:20:19,716 Speaker 1: voter suppression policies there and the role they may have 315 00:20:19,756 --> 00:20:24,756 Speaker 1: played in Trump's narrow victory. So I'm curious, what are 316 00:20:24,836 --> 00:20:28,476 Speaker 1: some of those potential new places that you think will 317 00:20:28,516 --> 00:20:31,596 Speaker 1: fall under that act. Well, what the law does is 318 00:20:31,756 --> 00:20:34,396 Speaker 1: it says that if a state has a certain number 319 00:20:34,716 --> 00:20:39,436 Speaker 1: of violations found by the courts over the last twenty years, 320 00:20:39,476 --> 00:20:42,556 Speaker 1: it can be covered under the new Voting Rights Act. 321 00:20:42,636 --> 00:20:45,316 Speaker 1: So if a state like Wisconsin which doesn't have the 322 00:20:45,356 --> 00:20:48,836 Speaker 1: same history of discrimination in voting that a Georgia or 323 00:20:48,836 --> 00:20:51,596 Speaker 1: Mississippi would, for example, but if it's found to have 324 00:20:51,796 --> 00:20:55,156 Speaker 1: discriminated a lot in the more recent past, then they 325 00:20:55,196 --> 00:20:58,716 Speaker 1: could once again be covered under the Voting Rights Act. 326 00:20:58,836 --> 00:21:00,916 Speaker 1: And the other thing that the bill does is it 327 00:21:00,916 --> 00:21:04,876 Speaker 1: says that certain changes have an impact in terms of 328 00:21:04,916 --> 00:21:07,396 Speaker 1: discriminating against voters of color. So, for example, if you 329 00:21:07,396 --> 00:21:11,156 Speaker 1: close a polling place in an area with lots of 330 00:21:11,396 --> 00:21:15,076 Speaker 1: minority voters, that would have to be covered under the 331 00:21:15,156 --> 00:21:18,196 Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act no matter what state it's in. They're 332 00:21:18,236 --> 00:21:21,116 Speaker 1: basically saying some states will have to approve all of 333 00:21:21,116 --> 00:21:25,676 Speaker 1: their voting changes because they are repeat offenders places like Georgia. 334 00:21:25,836 --> 00:21:28,916 Speaker 1: But certain changes, no matter what state you're in, have 335 00:21:29,076 --> 00:21:32,436 Speaker 1: the impact of discriminating against voters of color, and therefore 336 00:21:32,436 --> 00:21:34,396 Speaker 1: you're going to need to get approval for that even 337 00:21:34,436 --> 00:21:38,076 Speaker 1: if you're not one of those covered areas. So it 338 00:21:38,116 --> 00:21:42,116 Speaker 1: looks more holistically at how voting discrimination works. The places 339 00:21:42,156 --> 00:21:48,236 Speaker 1: that have always discriminated are doing discrimination still Texas, Georgia, Mississippi. 340 00:21:48,276 --> 00:21:51,436 Speaker 1: They're always going to be covered. But also this has spread. 341 00:21:51,916 --> 00:21:55,196 Speaker 1: This has spread to places like Wisconsin, or it's spread 342 00:21:55,196 --> 00:21:58,156 Speaker 1: to places like Ohio that don't have the same history 343 00:21:58,716 --> 00:22:01,516 Speaker 1: terms of Jim Crowe, things like that. But at the 344 00:22:01,556 --> 00:22:04,836 Speaker 1: same time, they're doing a lot of similar voter suppression 345 00:22:04,916 --> 00:22:08,516 Speaker 1: techniques in a lot of ways. Southern bread voter suppression 346 00:22:08,796 --> 00:22:12,156 Speaker 1: has spread to the North under Republican control. What do 347 00:22:12,196 --> 00:22:17,516 Speaker 1: you think is still needed to ensure that every single American, 348 00:22:17,796 --> 00:22:22,556 Speaker 1: no matter their background, has the ability to easily vote 349 00:22:22,636 --> 00:22:25,036 Speaker 1: in this country. Well, I think if those two pieces 350 00:22:25,036 --> 00:22:29,516 Speaker 1: of legislation passed, I'd be a lot happier. But I 351 00:22:29,516 --> 00:22:32,396 Speaker 1: still think that, you know, listen, they're still going to 352 00:22:32,436 --> 00:22:34,756 Speaker 1: find ways to try to get around it, just like 353 00:22:35,476 --> 00:22:37,796 Speaker 1: Southern states in the eighteen eighties and the eighteen nineties 354 00:22:37,836 --> 00:22:39,676 Speaker 1: found a way to get around the fifteenth Amendment. I 355 00:22:39,676 --> 00:22:43,556 Speaker 1: mean the legislation was there, but it wasn't enforced, and 356 00:22:43,596 --> 00:22:46,556 Speaker 1: it had some loopholes they were able to exploit. I 357 00:22:46,596 --> 00:22:49,796 Speaker 1: think what we really need is a fundamental guarantee of 358 00:22:49,996 --> 00:22:52,756 Speaker 1: voting rights in this country that says that you have 359 00:22:52,876 --> 00:22:56,396 Speaker 1: the right to vote except for X, Y Z. Very 360 00:22:56,436 --> 00:22:59,156 Speaker 1: good reason, because we have things that you can't do 361 00:22:59,196 --> 00:23:02,356 Speaker 1: in this country. We supposedly can't disenfranchise people based on 362 00:23:02,516 --> 00:23:05,996 Speaker 1: their race, or based on their age, or based on 363 00:23:06,076 --> 00:23:08,436 Speaker 1: their gender. Now and practice, those things happen, but we 364 00:23:08,476 --> 00:23:11,756 Speaker 1: don't have anything just broadly guarantees the right to vote. 365 00:23:11,836 --> 00:23:15,196 Speaker 1: And I think that's one reason why voting rights remain 366 00:23:15,316 --> 00:23:18,156 Speaker 1: such a contested issue in our country, because we've never 367 00:23:18,196 --> 00:23:21,276 Speaker 1: really put it into our constitution to protect it. If 368 00:23:21,276 --> 00:23:24,396 Speaker 1: you look at the debates over the fifteenth Amendment, there 369 00:23:24,516 --> 00:23:27,916 Speaker 1: was a more expansive version that was written that would 370 00:23:27,956 --> 00:23:31,556 Speaker 1: have banned voter suppression not just based on race, but 371 00:23:31,716 --> 00:23:35,356 Speaker 1: based on class and education as well. But the point 372 00:23:35,436 --> 00:23:37,676 Speaker 1: is that the fact that the fifteenth Amendment wasn't as 373 00:23:37,716 --> 00:23:41,356 Speaker 1: broad as it could have been left loopholes for voter suppression. 374 00:23:41,396 --> 00:23:43,756 Speaker 1: I think that's still the case today when these voting 375 00:23:43,796 --> 00:23:46,396 Speaker 1: cases go before the Supreme Court, their challenge under the 376 00:23:46,436 --> 00:23:48,916 Speaker 1: fourteenth amdent, their challenge over the fifteenth Amendment. But there's 377 00:23:48,956 --> 00:23:51,236 Speaker 1: no amendment that just says, you, guys, shouldn't make it 378 00:23:51,236 --> 00:23:52,876 Speaker 1: harder to vote unless you have a really good reason 379 00:23:52,916 --> 00:23:55,036 Speaker 1: to do so. I mean, you would have to have 380 00:23:55,356 --> 00:23:57,836 Speaker 1: a more eloquent drafting, ever, But that's basically what I'm saying. 381 00:23:57,836 --> 00:24:00,036 Speaker 1: What we need. Voting rights are such a fundamental right 382 00:24:00,076 --> 00:24:01,956 Speaker 1: that they really should not be abridge unless there's a 383 00:24:01,956 --> 00:24:03,436 Speaker 1: really good reason to do so. We don't have that 384 00:24:03,516 --> 00:24:06,636 Speaker 1: language in our constitution. I'm trying to think of an example. 385 00:24:07,236 --> 00:24:11,676 Speaker 1: I was born in the United States. Should I date myself, 386 00:24:11,676 --> 00:24:14,116 Speaker 1: I'll date myself in nineteen eighty two, That's what I was. 387 00:24:14,356 --> 00:24:18,276 Speaker 1: So that means, oh my gosh, which what's your birthday? 388 00:24:18,476 --> 00:24:21,676 Speaker 1: May first, nineteen eighty two. Oh man, you're an old man. 389 00:24:22,116 --> 00:24:26,236 Speaker 1: I was born in August thirteenth. So you know, both 390 00:24:26,236 --> 00:24:30,196 Speaker 1: of us we are guaranteed citizenship since we were born 391 00:24:30,636 --> 00:24:33,236 Speaker 1: in the United States. In other words, that can't be 392 00:24:33,316 --> 00:24:36,356 Speaker 1: taken away from us. To compare it to what you're saying, 393 00:24:36,356 --> 00:24:40,316 Speaker 1: you're stating that a citizen, one of their guarantees of 394 00:24:40,436 --> 00:24:44,396 Speaker 1: citizenship would be the right to vote and it couldnt 395 00:24:44,556 --> 00:24:48,316 Speaker 1: be taken away like this whole idea of even registration 396 00:24:48,876 --> 00:24:51,756 Speaker 1: you have to register to vote, that you could lose 397 00:24:51,796 --> 00:24:55,076 Speaker 1: your vote when you go to prison. You're saying that 398 00:24:55,076 --> 00:24:57,316 Speaker 1: that would not be possible. We would always have our 399 00:24:57,396 --> 00:24:59,676 Speaker 1: right to vote. And then you're also saying, correct me 400 00:24:59,716 --> 00:25:03,796 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, that it would clearly state that any 401 00:25:03,876 --> 00:25:09,076 Speaker 1: effort that precludes a person from voting makes it difficul 402 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:13,076 Speaker 1: quote for a person is unconstitutional. Yes, and I guess 403 00:25:13,116 --> 00:25:15,036 Speaker 1: I would say I would like the right to vote 404 00:25:15,196 --> 00:25:18,076 Speaker 1: to be looked at more like the First Amendment. We're 405 00:25:18,156 --> 00:25:20,916 Speaker 1: born with freedom of speech. It's not conferred upon us. 406 00:25:20,956 --> 00:25:23,556 Speaker 1: We don't get freedom of speech when we're eighteen. Right, 407 00:25:24,036 --> 00:25:27,476 Speaker 1: we have it based on a guarantee in our constitution. 408 00:25:27,716 --> 00:25:30,436 Speaker 1: But I have to affirmatively register to vote when I 409 00:25:30,476 --> 00:25:33,836 Speaker 1: turn eighteen, I have to possibly show other forms of 410 00:25:33,876 --> 00:25:37,716 Speaker 1: documentation depending on what state I live in. If I 411 00:25:37,756 --> 00:25:40,076 Speaker 1: commit a crime, I could be stripped of the right 412 00:25:40,076 --> 00:25:43,036 Speaker 1: to vote, potentially for life, depending on what state I 413 00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:44,916 Speaker 1: live in. If I have to move, I have to 414 00:25:44,996 --> 00:25:48,916 Speaker 1: reregister to vote. I have to affirmatively seek out what 415 00:25:48,996 --> 00:25:51,916 Speaker 1: my polling place is. All of those kind of things. 416 00:25:52,276 --> 00:25:54,276 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that people shouldn't have to do anything 417 00:25:54,316 --> 00:25:55,956 Speaker 1: to be able to qualify for a voting, but I 418 00:25:55,996 --> 00:25:57,956 Speaker 1: think it would be a big shift in terms of 419 00:25:58,676 --> 00:26:01,636 Speaker 1: voter participation if we said that voting is a right 420 00:26:01,716 --> 00:26:04,276 Speaker 1: that can't be taken away from you. In Australia, they 421 00:26:04,276 --> 00:26:08,436 Speaker 1: have mandatory voting, and the reason they have mandatory voting 422 00:26:08,756 --> 00:26:11,276 Speaker 1: is they don't view voting as a right or a privilege. 423 00:26:11,276 --> 00:26:14,156 Speaker 1: They viewed voting as a responsibility, that it's just something 424 00:26:14,156 --> 00:26:16,596 Speaker 1: that you do. I would like to think we don't 425 00:26:16,716 --> 00:26:18,836 Speaker 1: need that, we don't need to force people to do it. 426 00:26:19,076 --> 00:26:23,076 Speaker 1: But it's an interesting experiment in that if voting is compulsory, 427 00:26:23,396 --> 00:26:25,796 Speaker 1: there's no such thing as voter suppression. Yeah, the state 428 00:26:25,916 --> 00:26:28,196 Speaker 1: can't say you have to vote and then prevent you 429 00:26:28,236 --> 00:26:31,276 Speaker 1: from doing so. I think in America we think, oh, 430 00:26:31,316 --> 00:26:34,476 Speaker 1: we're doing everything better than everywhere else, but in fact, 431 00:26:34,996 --> 00:26:37,756 Speaker 1: our political system, in our voting system, is probably more 432 00:26:37,836 --> 00:26:47,756 Speaker 1: screwed up and backwards than virtually any other advanced industrial democracy. 433 00:26:55,076 --> 00:26:59,036 Speaker 1: With this past election, many of the people who voted, 434 00:26:59,036 --> 00:27:03,436 Speaker 1: of course, voted absentee, and so obviously there's been efforts 435 00:27:03,436 --> 00:27:07,836 Speaker 1: to roll back in Republican led states, the ability to 436 00:27:07,956 --> 00:27:12,516 Speaker 1: absentee vote ords it harder. Some people have proposed, well, 437 00:27:12,556 --> 00:27:14,876 Speaker 1: we should be able to vote in every way we 438 00:27:14,916 --> 00:27:19,116 Speaker 1: can bank, which then brings in the controversial. Should we 439 00:27:19,156 --> 00:27:21,756 Speaker 1: be able to vote online and would that then make 440 00:27:21,876 --> 00:27:25,076 Speaker 1: voting we're accessible for young people? What are the types 441 00:27:25,116 --> 00:27:28,876 Speaker 1: of policies and practices we can put in place to 442 00:27:29,116 --> 00:27:32,756 Speaker 1: ensure every single person is voting well. I would say 443 00:27:32,796 --> 00:27:35,756 Speaker 1: that we should automatically register people to vote in the 444 00:27:35,796 --> 00:27:37,876 Speaker 1: same way that when you or I turned eighteen, we 445 00:27:37,876 --> 00:27:40,436 Speaker 1: are automatically enrolled on the Selective Service if there was 446 00:27:40,556 --> 00:27:44,156 Speaker 1: ever another draft for war. I think the government knows 447 00:27:44,236 --> 00:27:46,636 Speaker 1: enough about us to be able to do that. I 448 00:27:46,676 --> 00:27:48,836 Speaker 1: think that people should have as many options to vote 449 00:27:48,876 --> 00:27:51,036 Speaker 1: as possible, meaning that we should be able to vote 450 00:27:51,036 --> 00:27:54,116 Speaker 1: by mail and have ballots automatically sent to us. I 451 00:27:54,156 --> 00:27:56,796 Speaker 1: think we should have early voting so that we don't 452 00:27:56,876 --> 00:27:59,436 Speaker 1: vote on a Tuesday in November because that's when farmers 453 00:27:59,516 --> 00:28:01,116 Speaker 1: used to bring their crops to the market in the 454 00:28:01,156 --> 00:28:03,716 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. I think it's a very integrated system, and 455 00:28:04,116 --> 00:28:05,956 Speaker 1: also obviously some people are still going to want to 456 00:28:05,996 --> 00:28:09,116 Speaker 1: vote the traditional way on election day. I think online 457 00:28:09,236 --> 00:28:12,196 Speaker 1: voting is really tricky in an era of hacking and disinformation. 458 00:28:12,356 --> 00:28:15,556 Speaker 1: Right now, it sounds good theoretically, but I think it 459 00:28:15,556 --> 00:28:18,876 Speaker 1: would pose a lot of security problems, just given how 460 00:28:18,956 --> 00:28:21,156 Speaker 1: insecure it seems like some of our systems are. But 461 00:28:21,196 --> 00:28:24,876 Speaker 1: I think in general, there's this expectation that voting should 462 00:28:24,876 --> 00:28:27,796 Speaker 1: be so much more inconvenient than other things we do. 463 00:28:28,076 --> 00:28:32,556 Speaker 1: I mean, people rarely wait two, three, four eleven hours 464 00:28:33,196 --> 00:28:35,636 Speaker 1: to get money out of a bank, but we're just 465 00:28:35,716 --> 00:28:37,796 Speaker 1: told that you have to do that to be able 466 00:28:37,836 --> 00:28:41,036 Speaker 1: to vote, or we can do all sorts of things 467 00:28:41,196 --> 00:28:44,156 Speaker 1: on our phones. But in Texas, for example, you can't 468 00:28:44,156 --> 00:28:47,676 Speaker 1: even register to vote online. And there's hundreds of thousands 469 00:28:47,716 --> 00:28:51,236 Speaker 1: of kids that turn eighteen in Texas every single year 470 00:28:51,676 --> 00:28:53,756 Speaker 1: and they can't even register to vote on their phones 471 00:28:53,836 --> 00:28:57,276 Speaker 1: or even their computers. I mean, that's totally anachronistic in 472 00:28:57,356 --> 00:28:59,676 Speaker 1: terms of talking about modern day technology. So I think 473 00:28:59,676 --> 00:29:01,156 Speaker 1: the rules can go a long way. And then I 474 00:29:01,156 --> 00:29:02,916 Speaker 1: think at the end of the day, people are going 475 00:29:02,956 --> 00:29:05,916 Speaker 1: to have to have something to vote. Four people then 476 00:29:05,996 --> 00:29:08,276 Speaker 1: have to be convinced that their vote matters, that their 477 00:29:08,356 --> 00:29:10,956 Speaker 1: vote will be able to change things, and things like 478 00:29:11,156 --> 00:29:15,636 Speaker 1: jerrymandering that reduces the choice that people have the fact 479 00:29:15,716 --> 00:29:19,916 Speaker 1: that the political system is so unrepresentative that voters of 480 00:29:19,956 --> 00:29:23,916 Speaker 1: color have much less representation all across the board than 481 00:29:23,916 --> 00:29:25,996 Speaker 1: their percentages in society. A lot of people still look 482 00:29:25,996 --> 00:29:27,436 Speaker 1: at the system and still see a bunch of old 483 00:29:27,436 --> 00:29:30,876 Speaker 1: white guys running things. And to some extent that's still 484 00:29:30,916 --> 00:29:33,516 Speaker 1: true if you look at the Supreme Court, or you 485 00:29:33,556 --> 00:29:35,316 Speaker 1: look at even who the president is, or you look 486 00:29:35,316 --> 00:29:37,356 Speaker 1: at who the leaders are in the Senator of the House. 487 00:29:37,756 --> 00:29:39,916 Speaker 1: By and larger political system is still run by old 488 00:29:39,916 --> 00:29:42,516 Speaker 1: white people, and I think that's something that turns a 489 00:29:42,516 --> 00:29:45,196 Speaker 1: lot of people off as well. And so, in other words, 490 00:29:45,236 --> 00:29:50,436 Speaker 1: it's not just about ensuring everyone has the right to vote, 491 00:29:50,476 --> 00:29:53,116 Speaker 1: that it could never be taken away from them, and 492 00:29:53,356 --> 00:29:57,796 Speaker 1: ensuring that it's easy for every single person to vote. 493 00:29:58,676 --> 00:30:01,316 Speaker 1: But the other side of it is candidates. And indeed, 494 00:30:01,796 --> 00:30:04,036 Speaker 1: last year I wrote a series of pieces in The 495 00:30:04,076 --> 00:30:07,916 Speaker 1: Atlantic on what I called the other swing voter. Yeah, 496 00:30:08,076 --> 00:30:10,756 Speaker 1: that was great. Of course, there's a traditional swing voter 497 00:30:11,276 --> 00:30:15,156 Speaker 1: that political pundits talk about, who are people who swing 498 00:30:15,196 --> 00:30:19,196 Speaker 1: from voting Republican to Democrat, And those people are disproportionately 499 00:30:19,276 --> 00:30:23,116 Speaker 1: white and disproportionately older. So I wrote about the other 500 00:30:23,156 --> 00:30:27,636 Speaker 1: swing voter, and these are people who typically swing from 501 00:30:27,756 --> 00:30:31,356 Speaker 1: voting to not voting, many of them swinging from voting 502 00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:35,156 Speaker 1: Democrat to not voting yea. And typically it's based on 503 00:30:35,196 --> 00:30:39,316 Speaker 1: the candidate. These other swing voters are more likely to 504 00:30:39,396 --> 00:30:44,156 Speaker 1: be younger and especially people of color. And so how 505 00:30:44,196 --> 00:30:49,956 Speaker 1: do we thereby create through policies ways in which we 506 00:30:50,036 --> 00:30:53,956 Speaker 1: can have more candidates who would be attracted and even 507 00:30:54,076 --> 00:30:57,676 Speaker 1: seek to swing the other swing voter, especially in this 508 00:30:57,716 --> 00:31:01,276 Speaker 1: political environment when the traditional swing voter that's white and 509 00:31:01,316 --> 00:31:05,516 Speaker 1: older seems to be dominating our political discourse. Well, the 510 00:31:05,556 --> 00:31:09,036 Speaker 1: fact is, if you vote your other radar of Candida, 511 00:31:09,436 --> 00:31:11,636 Speaker 1: but if you haven't voted, it's almost like you don't 512 00:31:11,636 --> 00:31:14,676 Speaker 1: exist to political campaigns. They don't try to spend any 513 00:31:14,716 --> 00:31:16,836 Speaker 1: time trying to get your vote, and then it kind 514 00:31:16,876 --> 00:31:20,636 Speaker 1: of becomes a self defeating cycle. And I think if 515 00:31:20,636 --> 00:31:23,036 Speaker 1: you look at people that aren't voting, they are buy 516 00:31:23,036 --> 00:31:25,756 Speaker 1: in large progressive in terms of what they care about, 517 00:31:26,196 --> 00:31:28,916 Speaker 1: but they're disenchanted with the political system. I think a 518 00:31:28,916 --> 00:31:30,716 Speaker 1: lot of them think that there's too much money in 519 00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:33,996 Speaker 1: the political system, that they candidates don't reflect them, that 520 00:31:34,036 --> 00:31:36,636 Speaker 1: the candidates are bought off. That doesn't really matter what 521 00:31:36,716 --> 00:31:38,196 Speaker 1: party you are, because there's going to be the same 522 00:31:38,236 --> 00:31:40,716 Speaker 1: outcomes at the end of the day. That's why things 523 00:31:40,796 --> 00:31:42,956 Speaker 1: like in the For the People Act they have public 524 00:31:43,036 --> 00:31:46,116 Speaker 1: financing of congressional campaigns because I think money is a 525 00:31:46,236 --> 00:31:49,716 Speaker 1: huge barrier to new people getting involved. I think it's 526 00:31:49,796 --> 00:31:52,516 Speaker 1: often the Aana Presses of the world, the Corey Bushes 527 00:31:52,556 --> 00:31:55,076 Speaker 1: of the world. They don't have money to run for office. 528 00:31:55,356 --> 00:31:58,716 Speaker 1: They don't sometimes come with communities that are well resourced. 529 00:31:58,956 --> 00:32:02,276 Speaker 1: They are often taking on established candidates, they're insurgent candidates, 530 00:32:02,356 --> 00:32:05,756 Speaker 1: or the party machines aren't funding them. And it's very 531 00:32:05,796 --> 00:32:08,116 Speaker 1: hard if you're a young black man or a young 532 00:32:08,156 --> 00:32:10,356 Speaker 1: Black woman, or a young Tino man or young Latino 533 00:32:10,436 --> 00:32:12,996 Speaker 1: woman to be able to get those kind of resources 534 00:32:12,996 --> 00:32:14,916 Speaker 1: and to be able to get known and work your 535 00:32:14,956 --> 00:32:17,476 Speaker 1: way at the ranks to then become a city council 536 00:32:17,516 --> 00:32:21,636 Speaker 1: member or a county commissioner, or a mayor or a 537 00:32:21,676 --> 00:32:24,236 Speaker 1: congress person. I mean, we're seeing shifts in this, but 538 00:32:24,276 --> 00:32:27,276 Speaker 1: the shifts are happening slowly, so I think that's one 539 00:32:27,316 --> 00:32:29,996 Speaker 1: thing that needs to change. One of the things that 540 00:32:30,076 --> 00:32:32,276 Speaker 1: was fascinating to me about the civil rights movement in 541 00:32:32,316 --> 00:32:36,556 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties was people decided to go from protesting 542 00:32:36,996 --> 00:32:40,676 Speaker 1: to running for office. Right you had the John Lewis's, 543 00:32:40,996 --> 00:32:43,596 Speaker 1: the Andrew Youngs, they got involved in politics, and of 544 00:32:43,596 --> 00:32:46,956 Speaker 1: course that required compromise, right they weren't going to be 545 00:32:46,996 --> 00:32:49,196 Speaker 1: the same politicians like they were when they were in 546 00:32:49,276 --> 00:32:52,036 Speaker 1: SNICK or when they were in SELC or when they 547 00:32:52,036 --> 00:32:54,476 Speaker 1: were in corps. But I think in a lot of ways, 548 00:32:54,516 --> 00:32:57,036 Speaker 1: some of the ground was laid in terms of these protests, 549 00:32:57,316 --> 00:33:00,156 Speaker 1: in these movements in the past few years to get 550 00:33:00,156 --> 00:33:03,156 Speaker 1: the next generation of people to want to be in office. 551 00:33:03,196 --> 00:33:04,316 Speaker 1: And some of them aren't going to want to be 552 00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:06,876 Speaker 1: in office because they don't see the political system changing things. 553 00:33:07,036 --> 00:33:10,636 Speaker 1: But I think you're going to have the Coreys, the AOC's, 554 00:33:10,716 --> 00:33:13,076 Speaker 1: people like that who come out of an organizing background 555 00:33:13,076 --> 00:33:15,956 Speaker 1: and say we're going to take what we learned in 556 00:33:16,116 --> 00:33:18,156 Speaker 1: organizing and we're going to bring it to politics. And 557 00:33:18,196 --> 00:33:20,436 Speaker 1: I think that's the kind of thing that can start 558 00:33:20,476 --> 00:33:23,956 Speaker 1: to reach people that think about voting, that they are 559 00:33:23,956 --> 00:33:26,836 Speaker 1: turned off by the political system and might care about 560 00:33:26,876 --> 00:33:32,516 Speaker 1: things like a higher minimum wage or legalizing marijuana or 561 00:33:33,116 --> 00:33:35,876 Speaker 1: reforming the criminal justice system that often really aren't on 562 00:33:35,916 --> 00:33:38,676 Speaker 1: the table in the quote unquote mainstream conversations that we 563 00:33:38,716 --> 00:33:42,436 Speaker 1: have about politics. And of course there's a certain segment 564 00:33:42,476 --> 00:33:45,876 Speaker 1: of Americans who are like, you know, I just don't 565 00:33:45,876 --> 00:33:50,236 Speaker 1: do politics right especially now. It's so messy, it's so divisive, 566 00:33:50,516 --> 00:33:54,036 Speaker 1: people are so angry, and so that's just not me. 567 00:33:54,316 --> 00:33:58,436 Speaker 1: And oftentimes it seems as if some of those people 568 00:33:58,636 --> 00:34:01,676 Speaker 1: who are saying that would actually make great elected officials. 569 00:34:03,756 --> 00:34:07,636 Speaker 1: I think that what people see as they see, if 570 00:34:07,636 --> 00:34:10,716 Speaker 1: we don't get something instantly, then we can't get it 571 00:34:10,756 --> 00:34:15,076 Speaker 1: at all. And sometimes things take a long time. I mean, 572 00:34:15,356 --> 00:34:19,596 Speaker 1: just look at people's views of criminal justice now first 573 00:34:19,636 --> 00:34:23,316 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, completely night and day in terms of 574 00:34:23,356 --> 00:34:26,116 Speaker 1: how we talk about the issue, how Democrats talk about 575 00:34:26,116 --> 00:34:29,676 Speaker 1: the issue. So you can change politics by being in 576 00:34:29,676 --> 00:34:33,156 Speaker 1: the political process, but you can also change politics by 577 00:34:33,276 --> 00:34:36,956 Speaker 1: changing the scope of what is possible. That's one thing 578 00:34:36,996 --> 00:34:38,876 Speaker 1: that I think is really important. I think that's one 579 00:34:38,916 --> 00:34:41,276 Speaker 1: thing that a lot of the young activists and organizers 580 00:34:41,316 --> 00:34:44,076 Speaker 1: can do right now. Wow, and let's say you're not 581 00:34:44,116 --> 00:34:49,476 Speaker 1: necessarily an organizer or an activist, but you also recognize 582 00:34:50,076 --> 00:34:54,476 Speaker 1: that voter suppression policies are not just a racist attack 583 00:34:54,756 --> 00:34:59,276 Speaker 1: on democracy, but preventing us as a nation from getting 584 00:34:59,316 --> 00:35:02,636 Speaker 1: some of those policy proposals that are taken for granted 585 00:35:02,676 --> 00:35:06,716 Speaker 1: in other nations. What can they do to be part 586 00:35:06,716 --> 00:35:10,836 Speaker 1: of this struggle to really defend America democracy. I think 587 00:35:10,836 --> 00:35:13,476 Speaker 1: that you have to get involved in your own communities. 588 00:35:13,836 --> 00:35:16,876 Speaker 1: If you're in a place like Georgia or Texas and 589 00:35:16,956 --> 00:35:20,636 Speaker 1: there's fights going on right now, you can obviously call 590 00:35:20,716 --> 00:35:24,196 Speaker 1: your legislators. You can get involved in protests. You can 591 00:35:24,236 --> 00:35:28,756 Speaker 1: get involved in terms of working with different groups, whether 592 00:35:28,796 --> 00:35:31,596 Speaker 1: it's the NAACP Legal Defense Fund or the League of 593 00:35:31,596 --> 00:35:33,396 Speaker 1: Women Voters. There are lots of different groups that are 594 00:35:33,396 --> 00:35:35,396 Speaker 1: working on this issue. I also think that you can 595 00:35:35,436 --> 00:35:37,396 Speaker 1: just get involved in your own backyard. I mean, the 596 00:35:37,436 --> 00:35:39,676 Speaker 1: system is not perfect no matter where you live. There's 597 00:35:39,716 --> 00:35:42,396 Speaker 1: always things that can be improved, and there's always new 598 00:35:42,436 --> 00:35:44,596 Speaker 1: people that can get involved in the process. I think 599 00:35:44,596 --> 00:35:47,316 Speaker 1: one of the really cool things that happened in twenty 600 00:35:47,316 --> 00:35:49,836 Speaker 1: twenty was a lot of people volunteered to be poll workers. 601 00:35:50,396 --> 00:35:52,316 Speaker 1: And once you get involved in the process, it's a 602 00:35:52,356 --> 00:35:56,036 Speaker 1: lot easier to stay involved. Understanding that what happens to 603 00:35:56,076 --> 00:36:00,316 Speaker 1: our democracy affects so many other things, and that it's very, 604 00:36:00,396 --> 00:36:05,396 Speaker 1: very hard to make progress on any issue if so 605 00:36:05,436 --> 00:36:08,156 Speaker 1: many people are frozen out of participating. And so that's 606 00:36:08,156 --> 00:36:10,916 Speaker 1: why I think it's such an important issue, because I 607 00:36:10,956 --> 00:36:13,756 Speaker 1: really view it as central to all other rights, and 608 00:36:13,796 --> 00:36:17,356 Speaker 1: it's very hard to protect lots of different rights if 609 00:36:17,356 --> 00:36:20,996 Speaker 1: the right to vote itself is not protected and expanded. Definitely, 610 00:36:20,996 --> 00:36:24,236 Speaker 1: and Ari, I'm so glad we were able to have 611 00:36:24,396 --> 00:36:28,196 Speaker 1: this conversation. You know, people when they ask me who 612 00:36:28,196 --> 00:36:32,076 Speaker 1: should I be reading to understand voter suppression in this country, 613 00:36:32,116 --> 00:36:35,436 Speaker 1: of course I always suggest you and your work. You know, 614 00:36:35,476 --> 00:36:39,036 Speaker 1: I think you're the premier journalist in the country covering 615 00:36:39,116 --> 00:36:42,356 Speaker 1: voter suppression. So I'm thankful for your work. I'm thankful 616 00:36:42,396 --> 00:36:45,876 Speaker 1: for cal Anderson holding it down in academia, of course, 617 00:36:45,876 --> 00:36:48,836 Speaker 1: Stacy Abrahams holding it down in the realm of activism. 618 00:36:48,916 --> 00:36:52,396 Speaker 1: And I'm hopeful that people realize that path forward that 619 00:36:52,436 --> 00:36:57,596 Speaker 1: we've never truly achieved as a nation, a multiracial, multi ethnic, 620 00:36:57,876 --> 00:37:02,316 Speaker 1: multicultural democracy where we all feel free, where we all 621 00:37:02,396 --> 00:37:05,516 Speaker 1: have one voice, where that single voice is acquired and 622 00:37:05,556 --> 00:37:10,196 Speaker 1: we're all speaking to what's best for our communities. That's 623 00:37:10,276 --> 00:37:13,676 Speaker 1: really what we're trying to achieve. Thank you. So much. 624 00:37:13,756 --> 00:37:16,156 Speaker 1: I really appreciate the kind words, and I'm really thankful 625 00:37:16,276 --> 00:37:19,156 Speaker 1: for your work, and I think you opened the eyes 626 00:37:19,196 --> 00:37:21,276 Speaker 1: of a lot of people. You were talking about these 627 00:37:21,356 --> 00:37:24,716 Speaker 1: uncomfortable issues way before it was cool, before people were 628 00:37:24,716 --> 00:37:27,836 Speaker 1: posting black squares, before it was a trendy thing to do. 629 00:37:27,956 --> 00:37:29,956 Speaker 1: You were deep in this work. So I really appreciate 630 00:37:30,156 --> 00:37:31,956 Speaker 1: you having me on and hopefully we'll get to do 631 00:37:31,996 --> 00:37:35,596 Speaker 1: it again soon. Definitely. All right, take care, Thanks Abram, 632 00:37:35,716 --> 00:37:45,316 Speaker 1: great to talk to you. Shortly after I spoke with Ari, 633 00:37:45,796 --> 00:37:48,876 Speaker 1: a video of a private meeting of Heritage Action for 634 00:37:48,956 --> 00:37:53,356 Speaker 1: America's surfaced. After seeing the leak video, Ari and his 635 00:37:53,516 --> 00:37:58,676 Speaker 1: colleague Nick Sergey released a story that exposed the conservative 636 00:37:58,716 --> 00:38:03,316 Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation's rolled in shaping and even drafting voter suppression 637 00:38:03,356 --> 00:38:08,236 Speaker 1: bills across the country. The Heritage Foundation has actively promoted 638 00:38:08,316 --> 00:38:12,956 Speaker 1: voter suppression since its inception in nineteen seventy three. Co 639 00:38:13,156 --> 00:38:17,556 Speaker 1: founder Paul Wyrick admitted way back in nineteen eighty that 640 00:38:17,636 --> 00:38:20,396 Speaker 1: he didn't want everybody to vote. I don't want everybody 641 00:38:20,396 --> 00:38:23,076 Speaker 1: to vote as a matter of how fact on leverage 642 00:38:23,076 --> 00:38:26,316 Speaker 1: and the elections, quite candidate goes as the voting populace 643 00:38:26,396 --> 00:38:31,716 Speaker 1: goes down. Wyrick's founding dreams have come true. The Heritage 644 00:38:31,756 --> 00:38:35,836 Speaker 1: Foundation authored several provisions of the recent voter suppression law 645 00:38:35,876 --> 00:38:40,236 Speaker 1: in Georgia, including sections that inhibit mail in voting and 646 00:38:40,396 --> 00:38:46,156 Speaker 1: election administration and oversight. Heritage also drafted provisions for similar 647 00:38:46,196 --> 00:38:50,556 Speaker 1: bills in battleground states like Iowa. In Texas, Heritage is 648 00:38:50,676 --> 00:38:54,596 Speaker 1: leading the fight against HR one, a bill that would 649 00:38:54,596 --> 00:38:59,756 Speaker 1: protect voters by implementing nationwide anti racist measures like automatic 650 00:38:59,796 --> 00:39:03,276 Speaker 1: election day registration, two weeks of early voting, in the 651 00:39:03,356 --> 00:39:07,636 Speaker 1: expansion of mail in ballots. In the leak video, Heritage 652 00:39:07,636 --> 00:39:11,636 Speaker 1: Action for America leaders bragged about their role in recent 653 00:39:11,716 --> 00:39:14,756 Speaker 1: voter suppression laws. We did it quickly, and we did 654 00:39:14,756 --> 00:39:20,316 Speaker 1: it quietly. Honestly, nobody noticed. The executive director even admitted 655 00:39:20,516 --> 00:39:25,316 Speaker 1: Heritage uses misleading tactics to deliver their proposals to state lawmakers. 656 00:39:25,756 --> 00:39:29,036 Speaker 1: Or we have a sentinel on our behalf. Give them 657 00:39:29,036 --> 00:39:32,316 Speaker 1: the model legislation so it has that grassroots you know, 658 00:39:32,396 --> 00:39:37,036 Speaker 1: from the bottom up type of vibe. Voter suppression isn't 659 00:39:37,076 --> 00:39:40,116 Speaker 1: just a war on voters of color, It's a war 660 00:39:40,476 --> 00:39:44,756 Speaker 1: on voters. Through their reporting, arian Nick showed that the 661 00:39:44,876 --> 00:39:48,316 Speaker 1: movement to suppress votes reflect not the will of the 662 00:39:48,396 --> 00:39:51,476 Speaker 1: people fearful of voter fraud, but the will of the 663 00:39:51,596 --> 00:39:56,356 Speaker 1: wealthy and powerful, fearful of American voters. I want to 664 00:39:56,356 --> 00:39:59,836 Speaker 1: be clear about what just happened on the Senate floor. 665 00:40:00,876 --> 00:40:06,836 Speaker 1: Every single Senate Republican just voted against starting debate, starting 666 00:40:06,876 --> 00:40:12,196 Speaker 1: debate on legislation to tech to Americans voting rights. Republican 667 00:40:12,276 --> 00:40:15,436 Speaker 1: state legislatures across the country are engaged in the most 668 00:40:15,436 --> 00:40:21,396 Speaker 1: sweeping voters suppression in eighty years. Capitalizing on and catalyzed 669 00:40:21,436 --> 00:40:26,156 Speaker 1: by Donald Trump's big lie, these state governments are making 670 00:40:26,156 --> 00:40:30,756 Speaker 1: it harder for younger, poorer, urban, and non white Americans 671 00:40:31,036 --> 00:40:37,356 Speaker 1: to vote. The fight continues. If you're living in a 672 00:40:37,396 --> 00:40:41,116 Speaker 1: state trying to pass stricter voting laws, call your legislators, 673 00:40:41,476 --> 00:40:47,036 Speaker 1: demand their opposition. Volunteer and donate to organizations combating voter suppression, 674 00:40:47,556 --> 00:40:50,756 Speaker 1: like the League of Women Voters in Fair Fight in 675 00:40:50,836 --> 00:40:55,636 Speaker 1: Black Voters Matter. Now is the time to do more. 676 00:40:56,676 --> 00:41:00,156 Speaker 1: Now is the time to fight for a multiracial democracy. 677 00:41:00,836 --> 00:41:13,516 Speaker 1: Now is the time to be anti racist. Be Anti 678 00:41:13,636 --> 00:41:16,756 Speaker 1: Racist is a production of Pushkin Industries and iHeartMedia. It 679 00:41:16,836 --> 00:41:19,076 Speaker 1: is written and hosted by doctor Ebram x Hindy and 680 00:41:19,156 --> 00:41:22,996 Speaker 1: produced by Alexandra Garrattin with associate producer Brittany Brown. Our 681 00:41:23,036 --> 00:41:25,876 Speaker 1: engineer has been Talliday. Our editor is Julia Barton and 682 00:41:25,916 --> 00:41:29,636 Speaker 1: our show runners Sasha Matthias. Our executive producers Arelie tim 683 00:41:29,676 --> 00:41:32,516 Speaker 1: Willad and Mio Lobell Manny. Thanks to Tammy Winn and 684 00:41:32,556 --> 00:41:35,116 Speaker 1: doctor HEATHERN. Sandford at the Center for Anti Racist Research 685 00:41:35,156 --> 00:41:37,956 Speaker 1: at Boston University for all of their help at Pushing, 686 00:41:37,996 --> 00:41:41,316 Speaker 1: and thanks to Heathern Fame, Carlie Migliori, John Schnaris, and 687 00:41:41,396 --> 00:41:44,596 Speaker 1: Jacob Weisberg. You can find doctor Kendy on Twitter at 688 00:41:44,676 --> 00:41:47,196 Speaker 1: d r Ebram and on Instagram at ebrahm x K. 689 00:41:47,796 --> 00:41:50,716 Speaker 1: You can find Pushing on all social platforms at Pushkin Pods. 690 00:41:51,036 --> 00:41:52,436 Speaker 1: You can sign up for our news that are at 691 00:41:52,476 --> 00:41:55,756 Speaker 1: pushkin dot fm to find more Pushkin podcast listen on 692 00:41:55,796 --> 00:41:59,076 Speaker 1: a heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you'd like 693 00:41:59,156 --> 00:41:59,636 Speaker 1: to listen.