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Speaker 1: I'm really cold.

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Speaker 2: I'm walking on the impressive grounds of Howard University in Washington,

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Speaker 2: d C. This is a historic place, but today it's

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Speaker 2: raining and freezing, and now I've just entered a waiting

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Speaker 2: room at the university. I'm with Latino USA producer Renaldo Leo.

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Speaker 3: You know, just in this moment of history, Like, what

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Speaker 3: does it mean to you to be talking about democracy today?

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Speaker 2: The thing is is that we have to be talking

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Speaker 2: about democracy because the world's greatest democracy, so called, is

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Speaker 2: that threat. I'm getting ready to take the stage for

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Speaker 2: a panel where we're going to be talking about journalism

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Speaker 2: blind spots in the mainstream media. This is all part

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Speaker 2: of the inaugural Democracy Summit, hosted by Howard University's Journalism program.

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Speaker 2: This confer in this moment in history. Well, it's a

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Speaker 2: very big deal. The panel I'm on is just one

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Speaker 2: of several that take place that day. It was all

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Speaker 2: organized by the New York Times journalist Nicole Hannah Jones.

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Speaker 2: She founded and now runs the Journalism and Democracy Center

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Speaker 2: here at Howard University.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so I just.

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Speaker 5: Want to walk you through a few things before you go.

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Speaker 6: On, Jesson.

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Speaker 2: It took me a minute, but I finally was able

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Speaker 2: to get warm and dry backstage, and now I've got

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Speaker 2: to go on stage and see the audience, which I

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Speaker 2: can hear from the other side of.

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Speaker 1: The curtain to excess.

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Speaker 2: But before I go on, I happened to spot Nicole,

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Speaker 2: who's been running around the entire day. I mean, this

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Speaker 2: is her conference after all, her center, of course, and

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Speaker 2: I see that she's taking a moment to check her phone.

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Speaker 2: She is wearing a beautiful green dress, she has her

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Speaker 2: signature red hair. I go up to her and congratulate

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Speaker 2: her on the center and on this conference.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me how you're feeling, Nicole?

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Speaker 6: Just kind of how like this moment, you know.

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Speaker 7: Relatively speaking for this moment at Howard, I feel amazing.

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Speaker 7: A year ago I had a vision of what I

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Speaker 7: wanted to create, and when I got to Howard that

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Speaker 7: I wanted to bring together rooms and journalists that look

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Speaker 7: like America to talk about democracy in America and what

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Speaker 7: we need to do here. So to have brought it

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Speaker 7: to Fruition, Yeah, it's it's been powerful today.

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Speaker 6: How does it feel to have a home?

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Speaker 4: Oh God? And that's exactly what Howard feels like, you.

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Speaker 7: Know, when everything happened last year with the University of

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Speaker 7: North Carolina.

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Speaker 4: It was destiny. You know, everything happened so that I

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Speaker 4: could come. I really needed to be, And in every way,

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Speaker 4: Howard feels like home.

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Speaker 7: So I'm just I'm grateful all these other people get

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Speaker 7: to experience a taste of what it's like here. As

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Speaker 7: you know, I feel content, I feel in my purpose,

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Speaker 7: and I am doing the work that I'm.

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Speaker 6: Supposed to do where supposed to do it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just an emotional place.

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Speaker 6: It's an emotional day.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And the fact that you, Nicole, are you know,

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Speaker 1: saying yes. Democracy and journalism.

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Speaker 2: Hand in hand, which to our colleagues sometimes feels like

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Speaker 2: such a threat.

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Speaker 7: That's right, you know, I mean, you know, right, as

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Speaker 7: journalists of color, we could never pretend that our experiences

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Speaker 7: don't shape our journalism. We could never pretend that democracy

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Speaker 7: is a given, because it's never been for any of us.

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Speaker 7: So to me, what we're trying to do is help

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Speaker 7: our profession understand.

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Speaker 6: That I have to go back on face.

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Speaker 2: Okay, from UDUA Media and pr X, it's let you

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Speaker 2: know us say, I'm Maria Rhosa Today a conversation with

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Speaker 2: author professor and New York Times journalist Nicole Anna Jones.

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Speaker 2: Nicole Hannah Jones rose to instant recognition when she published

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Speaker 2: The sixteen nineteen Project in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: The Times of sixteen nineteen Project is a cultural history

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Speaker 3: of how the legacy of slavery continues to shape and

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Speaker 3: define life in America.

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Speaker 6: It marks the four hundredth anniversary of the arrival of

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Speaker 6: the first enslaved Africans in the colony of Virginia.

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Speaker 8: The project aims to reframe the country's history, understanding sixteen

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Speaker 8: nineteen is our true founding and placing the consequence.

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Speaker 2: Following the release of the sixteen nineteen Project, the far

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Speaker 2: right propaganda machine went on the attack against Nicole and

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Speaker 2: her work. This included former President Donald Trump, who called

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Speaker 2: the project quote unquote poison.

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Speaker 5: This project rewrites American history to teach our children that

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Speaker 5: we were founded on the principle.

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Speaker 3: Of a pres not freedom.

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Speaker 2: The work won Nicole a Pulitzer Prize in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: but the backlash continued since the project's release. State and

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Speaker 2: local governments have banned schools from teaching the sixteen nineteen

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Speaker 2: Project and have often conflated Nichole's work with critical race theory. Today,

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Speaker 2: Nicole Hannah Jones joins me for a conversation about how

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Speaker 2: she's pushed ahead despite controversy and how she's come to

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Speaker 2: terms with always trying to fit in in predominantly white

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Speaker 2: spaces as a black journalist. Later, we take a trip

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Speaker 2: to Nichole's hometown of Waterloo, Iowa, to see how she's

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Speaker 2: giving back to the community with a special Passion project.

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Speaker 2: Nicole Hannah Jones, Welcome to Latino USA.

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Speaker 1: It's so great to have you on the show.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. I'm glad to finally be here.

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Speaker 2: And i just want to say thank you for everything

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Speaker 2: that you're doing, in particular because you included me in

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Speaker 2: a pretty extraordinary moment, which was your Democracy Summit in

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Speaker 2: November of twenty twenty two, and there you actually said

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Speaker 2: that you were really happy to be at Howard because

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Speaker 2: you felt like finally you were at home. And I'm

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Speaker 2: wondering if you can just tell us a little bit

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Speaker 2: about that sense of Howard being your home for this work.

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Speaker 4: Yes, thank you, so one.

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Speaker 7: Always always happy to speak with you, and you know,

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Speaker 7: I'm such an admirer of your work and the space

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Speaker 7: that you make for Latino journalists but also just journalists

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Speaker 7: of color and telling the stories of people of color.

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Speaker 7: So and I just also really enjoy your workout videos

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Speaker 7: on Instagram.

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Speaker 4: I would say it's inspiring.

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Speaker 7: It does not inspire me to pursue the same thing,

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Speaker 7: but I do enjoy watching them in such a badass

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Speaker 7: So yeah, you know, I'm a person who in general

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Speaker 7: does not believe in regrets. I think they're pretty useless, right,

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Speaker 7: whatever has happened in the past, you can't do much

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Speaker 7: about it, so why spend a lot of time focusing

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Speaker 7: on it. But one of my very few regrets in

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Speaker 7: life is that I did not attend in historically black college,

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Speaker 7: and particularly that I didn't attend Howard. So I, like

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Speaker 7: many people like us, made my way through white institutions

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Speaker 7: starting in the second grade, when I was bussed to

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Speaker 7: white schools, to my undergraduate institution, to graduate school, to

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Speaker 7: every newspaper I've ever worked at. And we feel sometimes

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Speaker 7: that we have to do that to prove ourselves right,

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Speaker 7: to show that we can excel in these white spaces,

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Speaker 7: But it comes at such a personal emotional cost. So

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Speaker 7: being at Howard, to be at a place literally built

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Speaker 7: around the belief in black excellence, built to provide education

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Speaker 7: and opportunity for people who had been enslaved and their descendants,

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Speaker 7: and to walk on a campus where I don't have

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Speaker 7: to prove basic worth, basic intellect, basic value, but can

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Speaker 7: just teach my students in the tradition of my community

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Speaker 7: to do the journalism that I think are our nation needs.

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Speaker 7: So when I walk on campus, it's just such a

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Speaker 7: different feeling. And imagine you feel that with the media

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Speaker 7: company that you've built. Right, It's like I walk on

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Speaker 7: campus and I'm not reminded that I'm the only one.

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Speaker 7: I'm not having to search and find that other black

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Speaker 7: person so I could do the head nod with that

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Speaker 7: other person. I don't go into a classroom and i'm

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Speaker 7: you know, maybe two students who look like me go

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Speaker 7: into buildings that are named after slave owners, right, I

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Speaker 7: don't have to do any of those things, So it

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Speaker 7: does feel like home.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask you for a second about what

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Speaker 2: you just said, which is you and I both have

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Speaker 2: been working in predominantly white institutions, right, both of us

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Speaker 2: in college and at work and going to the Ivy League,

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Speaker 2: for you working at the New York Times, for me

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Speaker 2: working at PBS and PRCNN. I mean this did give

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Speaker 2: us validation obviously in the mainstream news media. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I just want to take a moment to talk about

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Speaker 2: this thing, right, How you and I both have spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of our careers actually having to get our

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Speaker 2: stories approved by white men and really having to think

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Speaker 2: about all the time that we spent trying to get

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Speaker 2: them to approve these brilliant ideas. Right, And I guess,

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Speaker 2: just looking back, Nicole, how does it make you feel

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Speaker 2: that we thought that we really had to prove ourselves

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Speaker 2: over and over again.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this.

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Speaker 7: I remember being in high school and when I was

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Speaker 7: trying to decide where I might go to college, really

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Speaker 7: understanding that I was going to have to get my

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Speaker 7: credential from an elite white institution to try to mitigate racism.

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Speaker 7: Like I'm like seventeen, eighteen years old, and I'm thinking,

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Speaker 7: you know, if I have notre Dame on my resume,

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Speaker 7: people will assume a certain amount of intelligence.

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Speaker 9: Right.

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Speaker 4: There will be some things I'll still.

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Speaker 7: Have to prove myself, but there will be things I

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Speaker 7: won't have to work so hard to prove. And that's

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Speaker 7: what I made that decision on. And then until this year.

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Speaker 7: I hadn't been back to Notre Dame since the year

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Speaker 7: after I graduated because it was a terrible experience for me.

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Speaker 4: It was a traumatizing experience for me.

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Speaker 7: I don't have any of the affection or affinity for

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Speaker 7: my alma mater that so many people have for theirs.

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Speaker 4: But I felt I had to make that choice.

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Speaker 7: And I think we get that message pretty early in

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Speaker 7: working class communities of color that when people in our

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Speaker 7: community see a spark in us or they believe, oh this, this.

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Speaker 4: Child has potential.

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Speaker 7: It seems like one of the first messages we get is, Okay,

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Speaker 7: we have to we have to get this child out

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Speaker 7: of this community.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 7: I remember people saying, get your education and get out

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Speaker 7: of here. You have to get your educations, you can

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Speaker 7: get out of here, And that sends a message that

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Speaker 7: there's something wrong with our communities and that if you

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Speaker 7: want to be successful, you have to leave your communities

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Speaker 7: or spaces that look like your community. And I certainly

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Speaker 7: internalize that, and to some degree it is kind of true, right, like,

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Speaker 7: you do have to prove yourself in these white institutions.

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Speaker 7: But then we don't think enough about the sacrifices that

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Speaker 7: are made in order to do that, and I think

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Speaker 7: both of us, at a certain point in our lives realized, actually, no, no,

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Speaker 7: we don't. We've proven everything we're ever going to prove,

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Speaker 7: and so I think both of us are trying to

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Speaker 7: build spaces where we can imbue young journalists of color

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Speaker 7: and just young people of color period with a different sensibility.

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Speaker 2: Nicole at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill,

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Speaker 2: it is in fact your alma mater. That's also where

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Speaker 2: you ended up working as a journalism professor, and then

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Speaker 2: you applied to get the night chair. This is one

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Speaker 2: of the most prestigious journalism chairs in the country. It

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Speaker 2: comes with tenure if you do get it. But then

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Speaker 2: there was some controversy. You went through this very public

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Speaker 2: tenure battle that came as a result of your work

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Speaker 2: on your sixteen nineteen project, and ultimately you ended up

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Speaker 2: scrapping all of that and moving to Howard University. So

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Speaker 2: can you tell me exactly how that happened?

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Speaker 7: Sure, So I applied, I went through the tenure review process,

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Speaker 7: full tenure review process. I was unanimously approved for tenure

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Speaker 7: at the university level amongst faculty, but the Board of

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Speaker 7: trustees for the university is they are political appointees and

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Speaker 7: most of them had been appointed by Republican governors, and

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Speaker 7: they opposed the sixteen nineteen project, and a very wealthy

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Speaker 7: donor interfered in my tenure process, and ultimately that's why

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Speaker 7: I was not granted the job with tenure. Now, the

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Speaker 7: craziest part about it is because I had become such

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Speaker 7: a divisive figure and had been in the media so much,

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Speaker 7: I wasn't even going to challenge it.

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Speaker 4: I just didn't want to have this public fight.

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Speaker 7: But the Conservatives who stopped me from getting tenure were

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Speaker 7: not satisfied with that. I got a five year contract instead,

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Speaker 7: and they didn't think I should have that either, so

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Speaker 7: they wrote a story about how I shouldn't my tenure

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Speaker 7: was taken and I shouldn't have gotten hired at all,

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Speaker 7: and then it just blew up into a huge national

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Speaker 7: scandal because it was clear that I had been and

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Speaker 7: discriminated against both I think racially and for my viewpoint.

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Speaker 7: And so in the middle of that, I decided, you know,

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Speaker 7: I wasn't going to go. So the fight was over

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Speaker 7: them voting on my tenure, which they ultimately did, and

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Speaker 7: they ultimately approved my tenure. But at that point I

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Speaker 7: had decided I was done begging white institutions to let

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Speaker 7: me in, to treat us fairly, that I was going

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Speaker 7: to go to historically black college, and I was going

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Speaker 7: to use that moment to make a statement about the

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Speaker 7: worth of people of color that institutions act like. We

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Speaker 7: should feel lucky to be there, right, we should be

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Speaker 7: blessed that they let us in and don't acknowledge everything

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Speaker 7: that we bring.

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Speaker 4: It was just one of those.

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Speaker 7: Moments where as a person of color, you excel because

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Speaker 7: you have to write, we have to be twice as good.

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Speaker 4: We know that that's what we do.

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Speaker 7: And you can do everything that these folks tell you

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Speaker 7: you have to do, and then at the end they'll

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Speaker 7: just change the rules on you. So I just decided

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Speaker 7: I wasn't playing their game anymore. And I was proud

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Speaker 7: to come to Howard. I was proud to bring twenty

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Speaker 7: plus million dollars with me at Howard and to found

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Speaker 7: this center there for the benefit of historically black colleges

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Speaker 7: in general, and I hope democracy.

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Speaker 2: So again, Nicole, it's when we're together, it's fleeting, and

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Speaker 2: we don't often have the time to you know, sit

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Speaker 2: down and actually, like I don't know, have a the

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Speaker 2: Gila or a cup of coffee and talk about these things.

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Speaker 1: And that's why or but from afar.

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Speaker 2: We admire each other, we support each other, we think

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Speaker 2: about each other, we applaud each other's work. But nothing

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Speaker 2: that I have done has compared to what the kind

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Speaker 2: of backlash that you have received because of your work.

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Speaker 2: So states have banned your work, people go after you

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Speaker 2: right now. Twitter is such a complicated place, but the

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Speaker 2: social media kind of attacks that aren't NonStop. And you

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Speaker 2: are a black woman who is also a mom, So

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Speaker 2: how do you manage this?

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Speaker 7: Thank you so much for asking that question. And I

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Speaker 7: know you know because of the racist attacks that you

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Speaker 7: often experience that the work does take a toll. I mean,

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Speaker 7: you know, we are badasses and a lot can roll

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Speaker 7: off the year back, but we're also human beings. And

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Speaker 7: you know you can only be called a N words

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Speaker 7: so many times and shrug it off like it does

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Speaker 7: bother you when you get threats, when people try to

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Speaker 7: discredit the work that you do. But if you would

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Speaker 7: have asked me this a year ago or two years ago,

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Speaker 7: I was struggling.

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Speaker 4: I won't lie.

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Speaker 7: I didn't intend to be in the public eye and

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Speaker 7: the way that I have been. I'm a print journalist

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Speaker 7: for a reason. I didn't expect to become a symbol

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Speaker 7: either that people loved or completely hated. And we were

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Speaker 7: in the pandemic, so I was just home alone, obsessing

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Speaker 7: over every single thing that was being written or said

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Speaker 7: about me, which is why I was on Twitter. Probably

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Speaker 7: are you in wait, wait more than I should have been,

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Speaker 7: But right now I really am in a state of

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Speaker 7: the closest I can say is zen I understand that

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Speaker 7: one you don't attack something like this, that you're not

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Speaker 7: afraid of that if this project, if this work wasn't

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Speaker 7: having impact, they wouldn't be trying to ban it, they

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Speaker 7: wouldn't be trying to destroy it. And so in some ways,

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Speaker 7: that's the greatest honor I can imagine, is when all

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Speaker 7: of these powerful, mostly white men feel the need to

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Speaker 7: try to attack the work and to attack me. So

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Speaker 7: I just I'm not on social media and that much.

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Speaker 7: And Lord knows that that's actually very healthy. It's very

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Speaker 7: healthy not to be on social and even if I am,

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Speaker 7: I'm rarely engaging anymore.

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Speaker 4: I'm focusing on the work that I'm doing.

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Speaker 7: I spend time with my friends and family and go

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Speaker 7: to the spot when I can, and really just trying

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Speaker 7: to focus on what is important. I come from a

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Speaker 7: blue collar town, from a family that had nothing, and

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Speaker 7: all you have is your respect, So respect becomes so important.

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Speaker 7: So when people would be like, oh, just let it

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Speaker 7: roll off your back, I don't actually know how to

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Speaker 7: do that right because to me, not answering disrespect when

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Speaker 7: I know how hard we worked on this, when I

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Speaker 7: know that's so hard for me. Except what I've come

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Speaker 7: to now understand is these are people who if they

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Speaker 7: say something, no one pays attention to it until I respond,

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Speaker 7: and that I was allowing people to drag me into

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Speaker 7: arguments that benefited them and did nothing for me.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, I continue my conversation with

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Speaker 2: the Cole Hannah Jones and later Latino USA producer Renaldo

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Speaker 2: Leanos Junior takes us to Waterloo, Iowa, where we visit

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Speaker 2: Nicole's passion project for sixteen nineteen Freedom School. Stay with

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Speaker 2: us nothing about yes, Hey, We're back, And before the break,

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Speaker 2: we were speaking with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Nicole Hannah

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Speaker 2: Jones and we were talking about feeling at home at

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Speaker 2: Howard University after her very public battle with the University

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Speaker 2: of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Let's dive back into

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Speaker 2: my conversation with Nicole and later producer Renaldo Leanos Junior

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Speaker 2: is going to take us to Waterloo, Iowa, where Nicole

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Speaker 2: grew up, and we get to visit Nichole's sixteen nineteen

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Speaker 2: Freedom School. Nicole, while you were busy dealing with the

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Speaker 2: tenure battle, you were also a working journalist for the

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Speaker 2: New York Times.

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Speaker 1: You were promoting your book.

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Speaker 2: On top of all of that, you also, you know,

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Speaker 2: you managed to have time the vision to open an

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Speaker 2: after school program. It's the sixteen nineteen Freedom School in Waterloo, Iowa.

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Speaker 2: And the school has been open for a year.

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Speaker 7: Now.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me what's the story behind that?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 4: So I I come from this.

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Speaker 7: I always say, no name town in a flyover state,

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Speaker 7: in a place that most people don't even think about

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Speaker 7: when you think about black people. Nobody thinks about Iowa,

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Speaker 7: but we are everywhere. I really do believe in a

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Speaker 7: common good. I really do believe that our fates are intertwined.

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Speaker 7: And I think that comes from again, coming from a

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Speaker 7: people where when you are black in this country. Your

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Speaker 7: individual status, your individual accomplishments, none of that mattered. You

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Speaker 7: still couldn't go into the restaurant you wanted to go to.

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Speaker 7: You still couldn't get into universities in the South. Your

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Speaker 7: collective identity is what determined most opportunities in your life.

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Speaker 7: So we've had to be a collective people, and we've

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Speaker 7: had to realize that you can't just advocate for yourself

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Speaker 7: because if the rest of your community is held down,

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Speaker 7: you will be held down as well. So my best

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Speaker 7: friend from high school is a elementary school teacher in

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Speaker 7: Waterloo and the poorest, most segregated elementary school, and I

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Speaker 7: had adopted her class, buying books for the kids coming

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Speaker 7: and talking to the kids. And during the pandemic, I

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Speaker 7: was talking to her about how few of her kids

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Speaker 7: were logging in right when the school shut down and

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Speaker 7: we were all in virtual school. Well, these kids, many

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Speaker 7: of them, they don't have computers at home, or they

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Speaker 7: may have one device, and all the kids are sharing

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Speaker 7: the same device. Mom is working two jobs and there's

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Speaker 7: no one there to sit at the computer with them

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Speaker 7: all day and make sure they're doing the school work.

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Speaker 7: And I was like, these kids are already two to

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Speaker 7: three grade levels behind and reading before the pandemic. So

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Speaker 7: the pandemic was going to be devastating for them. And

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Speaker 7: I'd been trying to think of a way to give

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Speaker 7: back to my hometown anyway, because you know, there is

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Speaker 7: a bit of guilt about being so successful, but your

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Speaker 7: community is not. Your community is struggling. When I go home,

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Speaker 7: nobody lives like me, and so I decided. Then I

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Speaker 7: was talking to my best friend, and she's the co

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Speaker 7: director and lead teacher of the Freedom School, and I said,

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Speaker 7: we should start after school literacy program for these kids,

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Speaker 7: and it should be based around them learning their history,

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Speaker 7: because they don't get black history in school, and so

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Speaker 7: we provide everything for free. We have a professionally designed curriculum,

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Speaker 7: a beautiful library, a beautiful facility with murals.

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Speaker 4: I brought in a mirror list.

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Speaker 7: All of our teachers are certified teachers, and they just

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Speaker 7: get the love, the nurturing, and the affirmation as well

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Speaker 7: as the literacy instruction that they so desperately need. Of

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Speaker 7: all the things that I've done, I'm the most proud

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Speaker 7: of this. It's not built like a classroom. There's sofas,

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Speaker 7: there's big pillows, like, they can come, grab their book,

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Speaker 7: lay on the sofa, go into.

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Speaker 4: Our library and just feel loved.

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Speaker 7: And that the reason so many of our kids don't

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Speaker 7: like to read is because they can't. Right, none of

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Speaker 7: us want to sit all day trying to work on

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Speaker 7: something that we can't do. And once we started giving

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Speaker 7: them literacy instruction and they could actually read, they love reading.

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Speaker 7: Big shocker. Right, it's not shocking, it's we know how

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Speaker 7: to educate our kids, we just refuse to do it.

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Speaker 7: So yeah, it's it's truly the greatest thing I've ever done.

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Speaker 2: And just like Nicole said earlier, she didn't do this alone.

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Speaker 2: Her best friend, Sharita Stokes was by her side. Sharita

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Speaker 2: is the co director of the sixteen nineteen Freedom School, and.

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Speaker 6: Nicoles like, what do you think is the biggest need?

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Speaker 9: What can we do? I'm like reading, you know, reading

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Speaker 9: is the heat everything. So after a year and a half,

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Speaker 9: we finally came up with a solid idea.

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Speaker 2: The school is on the second floor of a large

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Speaker 2: red building and most of the teachers are retired black

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Speaker 2: where people who just want to give back. Fourth and

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Speaker 2: fifth graders come from schools all around the area and

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Speaker 2: now producer Cernando Leanels Junior is going to take us

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Speaker 2: to Waterloo, Iowa.

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Speaker 5: Hello, people, just line up here. The other bus comes

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Speaker 5: in about five ten minutes, so you can.

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Speaker 10: Follow those guys upstairs and see their little routine.

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Speaker 5: Thank you.

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Speaker 9: My name is Sherita Stokes. I am the co director

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Speaker 9: and the curriculum coordinator at the sixteen nineteen Freedom School.

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Speaker 9: I was born and raised in Waterloo, Iowa, and my

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Speaker 9: parents lived here. My dad owned one of the first

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Speaker 9: black construction companies in Iowa. My dad was born in Mississippi,

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Speaker 9: raised Mississippi. My grandmother actually picked cotton in Mississippi. I

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Speaker 9: actually have her cotton sack that she used as a

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Speaker 9: nine foot cotton sacks if you can think about how

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Speaker 9: big a cotton sack is. My grandfather, my mother's father,

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Speaker 9: always talked about growing up in Mississippi picking cotton and

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Speaker 9: the things that happened then. And I don't remember learning

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Speaker 9: a lot about black history. I remember learning about Martin

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Speaker 9: Luther King. I remember going to school in the eighties.

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Speaker 9: It was a big thing when they first started celebrating

440
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 9: Doctor King's Holiday, so it wasn't a mandatory holiday, so

441
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 9: some people still went to school but I do remember

442
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 9: like my church encouraging people not to go to school

443
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 9: that day because it was starting to be a national holiday.

444
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 9: It wasn't until high school, when I had mister Dow's

445
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 9: class that I actually got immersed into real black history.

446
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 9: I guess if you could call it that, where it

447
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 9: was more than just the top three names. We actually

448
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 9: studied from Africa up until recent and that kind of

449
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 9: spark the whole interest in learning more about history.

450
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 11: Gentleman and Rady, this is Ray and you.

451
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 4: School misan.

452
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 12: And Hi everyone.

453
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 11: Hi.

454
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 5: My name is Elena.

455
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 10: I am ten years old.

456
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 5: My name is Imbridge and I'm ten. My name is

457
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 5: Lena and I'm ten.

458
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 6: My name is Tana.

459
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 8: I'm eleven.

460
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 3: What do you want me to know about the sixteen

461
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: nineteen Freedom School?

462
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 10: That it helps kids for reading and you learn a

463
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 10: lot about black history.

464
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 3: House is different from regular school that you go to.

465
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 12: Because I'm really in school, we don't learn about black history.

466
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: How does that make you feel, the fact that you're

467
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: not really learning about this stuff in regular.

468
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 9: School, that we don't get to learn about more black

469
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 9: people than we do in normal school.

470
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 4: I get confused about, like why don't we learn it?

471
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 4: I feel like we should learn it.

472
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 9: I guess growing up in Iowa, I kind of thought

473
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 9: it was normal to not have a lot of black teachers.

474
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 9: Even when my own adult children went to school, I

475
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 9: don't recall them having any African American teachers in elementary

476
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 9: school at all at the school they went to. But

477
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 9: one of the purposes of this program and having African

478
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 9: American teachers is knowing that we still have some schools

479
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 9: that have zero African American teachers and some students never

480
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 9: get that experience. And one of the things you can

481
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 9: look at up research shows that black kids learn best

482
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 9: from teachers that look like them because they're more comfortable,

483
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 9: they believe them more.

484
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 6: Just different things.

485
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 9: But then did not ever have that opportunity would just

486
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 9: be a disservice to any child. It definitely breaks stereotypes

487
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 9: because if you've never had a black teacher, you the

488
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 9: only experiences you may have of black people or maybe

489
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 9: on TV, and it's probably not the costly show type

490
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 9: quality TV because I don't think there's any shows like

491
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 9: that anymore.

492
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 6: So it's not gonna be a wholesome.

493
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 9: So you're gonna automatically think of violence, or you're gonna

494
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 9: think bad and you're gonna think that, But just having

495
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 9: a black teacher present kind of bends that stereotype where

496
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 9: you could say, oh, okay, well they're teachers, they're teaching me,

497
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 9: they're nice, they're not bad people, and it just kind

498
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 9: of overall helps the community.

499
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 10: And my winter gear.

500
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 4: I'm ready to.

501
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 12: Ben I've been.

502
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 6: Can I ask you really quick? Can you kind of

503
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 6: describe what is happening right now?

504
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 11: This is part of our program where we want the

505
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 11: kids to read independently. We know that in order for

506
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 11: them to improve their reading, they have to practice reading,

507
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 11: so we have them practice. They're reading here for ten

508
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 11: minutes in hopes that they'll develop stronger fluency skills.

509
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 10: I bundle up quickly and my winter year I'm ready

510
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 10: to dive in.

511
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 11: My name is Louise Wilder, and I am a sixteen

512
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 11: nineteen teacher and I'm the lead teacher here. A lot

513
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 11: of the books that the kids are reading, we have

514
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 11: fiction and nonfiction books, and the majority of the books

515
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 11: are by African American authors and illustrators. So when the

516
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 11: kids are looking through the books, those that have pictures,

517
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 11: we want them to have a reflection of themselves and

518
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 11: see children doing things that they normally would do so

519
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 11: they'll feel more connected.

520
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 6: To the books.

521
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 11: So this program did an extensive search to look for

522
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 11: such books where the kids could feel comfortable and feel

523
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 11: relaxed and enjoy the message that they're giving them through

524
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 11: picture as well as text.

525
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 9: Her father was Her father was a roofer, a rufer.

526
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 8: And a carpenter, and her mother would later became an

527
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 8: elementary school teacher.

528
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 3: Can you walk me through how you first met Nicole?

529
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 9: We actually met in high school in ELP class Expanded

530
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 9: Learning Program.

531
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 6: You know, it's like.

532
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 9: Supposed to be the class for the smart kids. I

533
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 9: guess that's what it's supposed to be. But we were

534
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 9: the only two African American girls in the class, and

535
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 9: so as with most places, we didn't know anybody else

536
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 9: in the class. But we bonded just as a were

537
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 9: two black girls, and so we just kind of started talking,

538
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 9: We started hanging out. We ended up in the same

539
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 9: African American history class with mister Dow That even sparked

540
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 9: the bonding, and even more that year and that we

541
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 9: were at West High in the nineties, there were some

542
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 9: little racial incidents that went on, and then there was

543
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 9: just some clubs that Black kids weren't allowed to be

544
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 9: in kind of a unseid they're not allowed to be in.

545
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 9: She also wrote for the West High newspaper, but literally

546
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 9: had to write stories that West High assigned to her,

547
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 9: not necessarily stories that we want. And it was I

548
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 9: can't remember the incident, it was some incident that happened

549
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 9: where it was like the whole school was kind of

550
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 9: in an uproar. And so Nicole, myself and some other

551
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 9: classmates created a Cultural Enrichment Club, which was more so

552
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 9: a club where we could learn about our own history

553
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 9: and other cultures. We had a march to try to

554
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 9: get African American studies required as a class because we

555
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 9: felt like that was important. And now this was in

556
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 9: ninety two. Fast forward to twenty twenty two, it's still

557
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 9: not required. And then out flash back to the sixties

558
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 9: when East High also had a protest of the same

559
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 9: sort to get African Americans. So here we are generations

560
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 9: and generations of trying to do the same thing and

561
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 9: it still hasn't happened yet. Like, even though NICOLEA and

562
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 9: I were both in the ELP, she was probably literally

563
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 9: the smartest person I've ever met, Like just in a

564
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 9: whole different realm of smartness, I guess. And her writing

565
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 9: has always been immaculate, like she was always a really

566
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 9: good writer and always been an advocate for her community.

567
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 6: Even when she moved away.

568
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 9: Prior to us starting the Freedom School, she always would

569
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 9: every time she came to town, she would come visit

570
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 9: my classroom and let the kids meet her because she

571
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 9: was a writer for the New York Times. She talked

572
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 9: to them about being a writer and just literacy in general.

573
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 9: And she would always purchase books for my classroom for

574
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 9: the students, let them pick their own books sometimes and

575
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 9: she'd buy.

576
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 6: Them for them.

577
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 9: But she always wanted to do more because this is

578
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 9: her hometown, this is where she's from. She comes from

579
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 9: being bust to the other side of town and having

580
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 9: to integrate schools and be the only black person there.

581
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 9: Our families always kind of talked about that her dad

582
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 9: was from Mississippi, and he talked about his family moving

583
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 9: up here and different things like that. So I think

584
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 9: it was just the our parents telling us the history

585
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 9: of our families and us learning that and feeling like,

586
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 9: why doesn't everybody know this, and then also thinking, oh, well,

587
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 9: that's all they did was pickcotton and be slaves, and

588
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 9: then to find out that you had people who actually

589
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 9: made major contributions to America. And then the wonder is, well,

590
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 9: why isn't this taught? How come nobody's telling us this?

591
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 9: Why were we never taught this?

592
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 11: Like?

593
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 9: Why is it separated when it's all a part of

594
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 9: American history? The good, the bath, ugly, it doesn't matter.

595
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 9: And so bringing it back to this program, we've noticed

596
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 9: as we start teaching these things to the kids, the

597
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 9: kids really get into it.

598
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 6: They really get excited about it. They're really interested and learning.

599
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 9: But not only does it make them want to research

600
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 9: and learn their own history, just makes them more interested

601
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 9: in reading in general, because now they've discovered oh, within

602
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 9: these books, within these words, it's like all these things

603
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 9: that I never knew and I can learn and I

604
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 9: want to learn more.

605
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 6: So it's kind of a win win situation.

606
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 11: Okay, everybody needs to find a seat and give missus

607
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 11: Fraser your attention.

608
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 10: So, friends, today we're going to do something a little different.

609
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 10: We are going to watch a video, but we're going

610
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 10: to do it twice. Okay, the first time you're gonna

611
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 10: watch it, I want you to pay attention to the

612
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 10: facts that.

613
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 6: They are giving you.

614
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 10: The second time, you're going to have two sheets that

615
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 10: you're going to work on. The first one is even

616
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 10: diagram that we're going to compare the North to the South.

617
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 10: What's different on both sides? We've done been diagrams before.

618
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 10: What's the same in the middle. Then on the next one,

619
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 10: you're gonna look at the specific parts of their government

620
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 10: that they talk about in this film and to take notes.

621
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 5: Deal.

622
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 6: All right, So here we go.

623
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 5: Following the attack on Fort Sumter.

624
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 3: The North and the South both had already their armies

625
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 3: were about the North and.

626
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 5: The South had.

627
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 10: My name is Corey Fraser, and I've been teaching for

628
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 10: eighteen years. All right, so let's look at their militaries.

629
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 6: How are they different?

630
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 12: The Union had more than the South, but.

631
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 5: The South had more, uh more knowledge. That's right, there

632
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 5: you go.

633
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 10: So the North had more soldiers, but the South had

634
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 10: more knowledge. They also had more motivation, didn't they because

635
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 10: they had generations of soldiers. It's very important for our

636
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 10: kids to understand their history and where they come from,

637
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 10: because our black and brown students are made to feel

638
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 10: as if that their contributions are not important to this

639
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 10: country and it's important for them to see that you

640
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 10: guys are more than athletes, you're more than musicians, you're

641
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 10: more than just entertainment for people, we made really big

642
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 10: contributions to the society, and without us, a lot of

643
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 10: this would not be And so being always portrayed our

644
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 10: slaves or entertainment or something negative.

645
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 4: They need to see themselves on a positive light and see.

646
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 10: What contributions their ancestors made and what contributions they can

647
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 10: still make. What experience did he bring to the table?

648
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 5: Yes, the on the experience. Yes, so he was.

649
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 10: In the military, so therefore he had military experience. So

650
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 10: isn't that one thing he had that Abraham Lincoln deny it?

651
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 4: What's your.

652
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: Coming here a couple of weeks?

653
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 5: Yeah?

654
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 3: Do you like coming here? And what is your favorite

655
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 3: thing about coming to the sixteen eighteen Freedom School?

656
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 11: My favorite thing is, like you've had read poems about

657
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 11: different people's history.

658
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 5: You call like you could make friends here?

659
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: Have you made friends here?

660
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 6: Yeah?

661
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: What is one thing that you've learned here that you've

662
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 3: really enjoyed?

663
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 1: Harrimt Tubman?

664
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 3: Why did you like learning about her?

665
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 12: Because she's like she helped people with slavery and like

666
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 12: she made the underground railroad and she's say like seven hundred.

667
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 12: People don't quote me three oh seven hundred or three hundred.

668
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 9: I think I was being interviewed one day and someone

669
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 9: asked me about the backlash. Who would get because the

670
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 9: program had a base of African American materials. And my

671
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 9: question to them was the problem. What is the problem.

672
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 9: Is the problem teaching kids how to read? Or is

673
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 9: it teaching kids of color how to read? But I

674
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 9: would say overall ninety percent as in full support of

675
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 9: the program. I just want people to know that sixteen

676
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 9: nineteen Freedom School is here to stay.

677
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 6: Are kind of.

678
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,919
Speaker 9: Catchphrases liberation through literacy because we know that literacy will

679
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 9: open doors in any aspect, any realm of life.

680
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: When we come back, I'll pick up my conversation with

681
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: the Kolhanna Jones to talk about growing up in Waterloo,

682
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 2: Iowa and how that's influenced her work.

683
00:40:07,880 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: Stay with us, Yes, Hey, we're back.

684
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: Before the break, we visited Nicole Hannah Jones sixteen nineteen

685
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 2: Freedom School in Waterloo, Iowa, and there we heard from

686
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 2: teachers and their fourth and fifth grade students. Now let's

687
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: get back to my conversation with Nicole Hanna Jones. So, Nicole,

688
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 2: the after school program is in Waterloo. I think it's

689
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: really interesting what you have said, which is you're recognizing

690
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: your own privilege. Right you left Waterloo and you have

691
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 2: been incredibly successful, and I want to know about managing

692
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 2: the privilege that you have now, the success that you

693
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 2: have now, and when you put that and you think

694
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: about you as a little girl, can you take us

695
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: back to being that little girl in Waterloo and how

696
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 2: you understood your place in the United States. For me again,

697
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: as a Mexican kid growing up on the south side

698
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: of Chicao, it was like, well, I'm here, I'm having

699
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: a good time, but I'm pretty much invisible. What was

700
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: the overwhelming theme of your childhood growing up?

701
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, so my hometown is about fifteen percent black, as

702
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 7: it was when I was growing up. So it's blacker

703
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 7: than the nation and very black for one of the

704
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 7: whitest states in the country. So I grew up in

705
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 7: a black community in Waterloo with my black family.

706
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 4: My grandmother had twelve kids, God bless her.

707
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm like, you had a sharecropper family, but you

708
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 7: weren't on the plantation anymore.

709
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 4: You came up north so.

710
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 7: I grew up both like in the embrace of a

711
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 7: black community, but in a very white state. So I

712
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 7: think I always I was an avid reader. I was

713
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 7: extremely nerdy. Both of my parents read a lot, I

714
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 7: read newspapers when I was young, all of those things.

715
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 7: I described it as desperately trying to find myself in

716
00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 7: the American story. I just, you know, journalists, people who

717
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 7: become journalists are natural skeptics, I think, and so I

718
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 7: knew I never saw us doing much in any of

719
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 7: the books we read, or when we wanted to see

720
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 7: black people in the newspaper, we had to go to

721
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 7: the crime lag because it's literally the only place where

722
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 7: black people were represented. And I just felt that that

723
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 7: wasn't right, that that wasn't reflective of the truth. But

724
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 7: no one was giving me the truth. So that's really

725
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 7: what has driven me. I think my entire career is

726
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 7: knowing that the reality of what I was experiencing, what

727
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 7: I believed to be true, wasn't matching what I was

728
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 7: seeing in the media or what we were being taught

729
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 7: in school, and wanting to get and reflect that that

730
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 7: greater truth. So I think my hometown shaped me a lot, and.

731
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 4: I'll say this.

732
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 7: Also, I grew up in a biracial household, so my

733
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 7: mom is white, my dad is black. And I saw

734
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 7: very clearly like being raised at that intersection where my

735
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 7: dad sat my sister's and I down when we were

736
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 7: very young and he was like, your mom might be white,

737
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 7: but this America, you are black. You will be treated

738
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 7: like you're black. You will go in the world as

739
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 7: black people. You are black.

740
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 4: You can't be white, right our society, Like, that's not

741
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 4: going to happen. You're black.

742
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 7: And so I saw that because I had these intimate

743
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 7: relationships with my white side of the family, which was

744
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 7: also a working class Both sides of my family were

745
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 7: working class, but the working class side of my wife

746
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 7: family had land right, they owned their homes. My grandmother

747
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 7: didn't work outside of the home. My grandfather was able

748
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 7: to take care of her off of his factory job

749
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 7: and the benefits of that. And I didn't know anybody

750
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 7: on my black side of family who had anything. They

751
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 7: didn't own their homes, they didn't have any property, worked

752
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 7: multiple jobs and couldn't get ahead.

753
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 4: So I knew even as a young person that it

754
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,479
Speaker 4: wasn't because white people were working harder that they had more.

755
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 4: Something in society was driving this because my family worked hard.

756
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 4: They worked in beef packing plans right my black side, right.

757
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 3: They.

758
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 4: Super physically challenging work like labor.

759
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 7: I remember, you know, my uncle's coming home at the

760
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 7: end of the day not being able to make a

761
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 7: fist because they'd been cutting carcasses all day. And my

762
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 7: uncle Eddie, my favorite uncle. He always had the best furniture.

763
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 7: It was rent to own because that's all he could afford,

764
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 7: but he had great pride in this house that he

765
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 7: didn't even own. So it was all these things that

766
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 7: I'm observing as a kid and seeing intimately both sides

767
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 7: of this family, who are both working class but live

768
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 7: very very different lives even though they all work hard.

769
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 7: So I think all of that really drove my quest

770
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 7: to understand and my belief that it was clearly what

771
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 7: I was seeing was structural, that it wasn't about black pathology,

772
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 7: it wasn't about people making the visual choices, it wasn't

773
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 7: about ambition. That there was something bigger at play, and

774
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 7: I've spent my life trying to excavate that.

775
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 2: So, Nicole, you and I are both very much influenced

776
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: by our upbringings by our experiences, and we're super clear

777
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 2: that our work reflects that. And sometimes because of that,

778
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: we're often seen as biased as activists really, and so

779
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you what are your thoughts on

780
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: the fact that journalists, especially journalists of color, are labeled

781
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: in this way.

782
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, So what I say is I actually believe journalism

783
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 7: is activism, not the same type of activism that is

784
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 7: Black Lives Matter or pro immigration groups or you know,

785
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 7: abortion rights groups, not that type of like activism. But

786
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 7: we become journalists because we want a whole power accountable,

787
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 7: because we believe that somebody has to speak on behalf

788
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 7: of the vulnerable.

789
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 4: That's activism.

790
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 7: You know, when the Washington Post has as its model

791
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 7: democracy dies in darkness, that's not a neutral position. That's

792
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 7: saying that we believe our role is journalists is to

793
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 7: strengthen and maintain democracy. When a journalist covers child protective

794
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 7: services and does an investigation and exposes failures of that system,

795
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 7: they're not doing it just because they're like, I just

796
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 7: think it might be interesting for people to know this.

797
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 7: They want that system to work for the children it's

798
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 7: supposed to serve, right, So I don't shy away I

799
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 7: say I'm an activist in the way that journalism is activism.

800
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 7: I'm not an activist in the way that people typically

801
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 7: think of activism. But to me, I got into journalism

802
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 7: because I want our society to be better. I want

803
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 7: to do my part to expose the way that our

804
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 7: society is failing citizens and non citizens, anyone who lives here,

805
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 7: and to try through that exposure, you know, is id

806
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 7: to be well said. The way to right wrongs is

807
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 7: to shine the light of truth upon them. So I

808
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 7: don't shy away from that label. A lot of people

809
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 7: say that either as an accusation, Right, you're an activist. Okay, well,

810
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 7: so let's Washington Post then, because why are they covering

811
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 7: Donald Trump like they do? Because they believe that our

812
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 7: president shouldn't do certain things right.

813
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 4: That's not healthy for our democracy.

814
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 2: There have been challenges in both of our communities, and

815
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 2: I think that one of the greatest challenges right now

816
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 2: is the fact that the Black Lives Matter movement and

817
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: the pro immigrant rights movement are kind of seen separately,

818
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 2: when in fact, the Black Lives Matter movement and the

819
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 2: pro immigrant rights movement are really so interconnected. And it's

820
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 2: an issue in the Latino community where there is a

821
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: lot of anti blackness historically, right, So I wanted to

822
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,959
Speaker 2: ask you, what do you think could happen if these

823
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,720
Speaker 2: two movements, the pro immigrant rights movement and the Black

824
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: Lives Matter movement, very actively and intentionally came together.

825
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 7: We have to be intersectional because we have to realize.

826
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 7: So one of the things that we hear all the

827
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 7: time is our country is going to have to get

828
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,720
Speaker 7: better because our demographics are shifting.

829
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 4: Well.

830
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 7: One, that's why we're seeing so many efforts to subvert

831
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 7: multiracial democracies because we're becoming too multiracial. But two, if

832
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 7: we don't harness that collective power, it won't matter.

833
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 4: That our demographics are shifting.

834
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 7: Right, If we see our struggles as distinct, we lose

835
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 7: our collective power. Collectively, we actually have a great deal

836
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 7: of power. So I wish that we would do more

837
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 7: intersectional analysis, intersectional organizing, that we would realize who our

838
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:56,280
Speaker 7: common enemies are and who benefits from our separation. Because

839
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 7: we know who benefits and it is not us. And

840
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 7: I think that is why it's so important. When I

841
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 7: see how you move in the world, I see that

842
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 7: solidarity with black people in diaspora. I see you speaking

843
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 7: out against racism in Latino communities, and I have to

844
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:19,479
Speaker 7: do the same thing.

845
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:19,919
Speaker 4: Right.

846
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 7: There was a period where I'm not even going to

847
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 7: say the name of this group because they bring a

848
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 7: lot of trolls, but a nativist Black American group that

849
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 7: is seeking reparations, right, was vehemently and viscerally anti immigrants,

850
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 7: and I spoke out against that. That's when I became

851
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 7: a target, right, because we cannot we as people who

852
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 7: have lived at the margins our entire existence in the

853
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 7: United States, have to be embracing other people at the

854
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 7: margins and understand the way that borders are false notions

855
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 7: that so often the reason people want to come here

856
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 7: is because of empire. It's because of American policy that

857
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 7: is made life in their own country is untenable, and

858
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 7: we want to just ignore all of that. We're not

859
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 7: competing for the same job, We're all competing for the

860
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 7: same scraps, right, So I think we have to talk

861
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 7: more about that. We have to do more organizing, and

862
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 7: that is the work of the journalists, right. The work

863
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 7: of the journalists is to provide that narrative and that

864
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 7: understanding that is so often lacking.

865
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 2: Well, Nicole, I could stay in conversation with you. Yes,

866
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: with the coffee and the the Keila, We're going to

867
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 2: make that out. But I want to leave on a

868
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 2: hopeful note, and so.

869
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 4: You know you got the wrong one for that.

870
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try.

871
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 2: There has to be I mean, you know that over

872
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: the pandemic, I became a birdwatcher. Who would have thought right,

873
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: But that is something that brings me kind of joy.

874
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: I mean, my puppies bring me joy. My kids that

875
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 2: are you know, stable and in love bring me joy.

876
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: But can you just tell us one or two things

877
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 2: that actually bring you joy and help you do this work?

878
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: Because I do see you smiling, You look beautiful today,

879
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 2: your hair is gorgeous, You've got a fabulous pink sweater on.

880
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 2: So something a couple of things that bring you joy

881
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: and help you keep on doing this work.

882
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 7: Okay, I can definitely answer that, because I am a

883
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,240
Speaker 7: very joyous person.

884
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 4: The work is very difficult.

885
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 7: I'm often writing about really painful things, but I really

886
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 7: am incredibly blessed. I get to read books, talk to

887
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 7: interesting people, and tell our stories for a living.

888
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 4: I can't imagine a better job than that.

889
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 7: You know, I have a beautiful, sassy, twelve year old

890
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 7: who is my entire life. I have a great husband.

891
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 7: I have a great collection of collection. I shouldn't call

892
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 7: my friends a collection. I have such a great you know,

893
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 7: a group of friends. And really, I go out into

894
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 7: the world and I'm at this point of my career

895
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 7: where people tell me all the time what the work

896
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 7: means to them. And I never thought I would be

897
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 7: you know, again, I'm a newspaper reporter. I didn't even

898
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 7: think people would pay attention to my byline, and certainly

899
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 7: not that they would recognize me when I'm out in public.

900
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 7: And it just affirms, you know, my father was born

901
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 7: on a sharecropping farm in Mississippi, and I am able

902
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 7: to do this work on behalf of our people, and

903
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 7: it means something to the people I do it for.

904
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 7: So sometimes my students or other people will say, you know,

905
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 7: how do you how do you keep going with all

906
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 7: of the attacks and all of this, and work seems

907
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 7: so hard, And I'm like, there's not a single day

908
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 7: where I don't wake up ready to do the work

909
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 7: that I do, happy to do the work that I do,

910
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 7: an honor to do the work that I do. It's

911
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 7: not a burden. My life is easy compared to so

912
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 7: many other people. So yes, joy is easy. Hope that's

913
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 7: a little harder, but joy that's easy.

914
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 2: Well, thank you Nicole Hannah Jones for speaking with me

915
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 2: and let you know Usay, it's been such a pleasure,

916
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 2: and you've made me rethink a couple of things. So

917
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 2: we're gonna have to have this conversation another year and

918
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 2: see absolutely where we're at.

919
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: But I really appreciate the time.

920
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Renaldo Leanos Junior with help

921
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: from Raoul Pees. It was edited by Daisy Contreras and

922
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 2: mixed by Stephanie Lebou and Julia Caruso. The Latino USA

923
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 2: team includes Andrea Lopez Cruzado, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Victoria Estrada,

924
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 2: Alejandra Salasadre, Patricia Sulvaran, and Julia Rocha. Our editorial director

925
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 2: is Fernando Santos. Our associate engineers our Gabrielle Abias and

926
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 2: Jj Grubin. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our New

927
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 2: York Women's Foundation fellow is Elizabeth loentl Torres. Our theme

928
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 2: music was composed by Sana Ruinos. I'm your Host and

929
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 2: executive producer Marino Hossa join us again on our next episode,

930
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,359
Speaker 2: and remember look for us on your social media. I'll

931
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 2: see you there and no deel Vides, Yes shoo.

932
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 8: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Annie

933
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 8: Casey Foundation, creates a brighter future for the nation's children

934
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 8: by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and transforming communities.

935
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,919
Speaker 8: The Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines

936
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 8: of social change worldwide, and W. K. Kellogg Foundation, a

937
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 8: partner with communities where children come first.

938
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: And let's meet, so middle.

939
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 7: You're all the way up in Harlem, and you know

940
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 7: that's like going out of town when you're in Brooklyn.

941
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 4: But maybe we can meet in the middle somewhere we see.

942
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 2: The thing is is that I can't get to Brooklyn

943
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: because my passport hasn't been stamped.

944
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 7: My love, We'll meet somewhere Manhattan, right, but in the middle,

945
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 7: not not not where

946
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 4: You are, ye well, meantimes the meddles happen