1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Photos have surfaced of Father Robert Prevost, now Pope Leo 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: the fourteenth, kneeling during a celebration of a write of Pachamama. 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 2: Was this worship or inculturation? 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: And the Pope offers an olive branch to devotees of 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: the Latin Mass. The Prayerful Posse gets into all of it. Next, 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: welcome to an important prayerful Posse. Be sure to subscribe 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: to the show. It's a great way to support our work, 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: totally free, and you can visit at Raymondroyo dot com 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: if you'd like to contribute. 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: And now let's convene the Prayerful Posse. 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: I'm joined by canon lawyer Priest of the Archdiocese of 12 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: New York, Father Gerald Murray, an editor in chief of 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: the Catholic Thing dot org, Robert Royal Gents. Before he 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: was Pope Leo the fourteenth, he was Father Bob Pravost, 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: and photographs have surfaced from a nineteen ninety five Augustinian 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: symposium in Sal Paulo, Brazil, and it shows then Father 17 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: Pravost kneeling during what the symposium's own published records described 18 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: as a celebration of the right of pacha Mamma. Now 19 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: a defender has come forward in the form of a 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: former bishop who argues that Provost Pope Leo didn't worship 21 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: Pacha Mama. 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: He merely offered some offerings to her. 23 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: Now, Father, what is this supposed to mean and is 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: it a distinction without a difference. 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot of things that we have to 26 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: take into consideration here. I don't believe that Father Prevost 27 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 3: believed that there was a goddess called Pacha Mama. I 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 3: certainly don't believe that. I don't believe that. Therefore, when 29 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 3: he knelt down on the ground as part of this ritual, 30 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 3: that he was worshiping an idol. In order to worship 31 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: an id you have to believe in the idol and 32 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: you have to make an explicit act of worship. I 33 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 3: think he was doing something imitating what other people were 34 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: doing with this sense of this kind of vague nature 35 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 3: sure respect, you know, kind of solidarity with the with 36 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 3: the earth, which I you know, it can easily be 37 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: mistaken for an idolatrous act. Therefore it should never be done. 38 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: So I hope that someday he will address this, because, yeah, 39 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: it's rash to say that that the Pope is an 40 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 3: idolator because he doesn't believe in idols. It's obvious. That's clear. 41 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 3: He doesn't believe in idols, but he did something that 42 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 3: idolators do and that therefore I think it was a mistake. 43 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 3: But I don't believe he's an idolator. 44 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there was that comment he made Father. We'd 45 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: covered this earlier in the year, where he talked about 46 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: the dangers of like nature worship. 47 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: That's right. The Pope has rejected kind of this new 48 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 3: world new age, rather thought theory that there's a you know, 49 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: the spirit of God is embodied in nature, and therefore 50 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 3: we have to respect nature and treat it as holy. No, 51 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 3: nature is a created good of the One True God, 52 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: and He's put it at the disposition of man for 53 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: the sustenance of life. There has benefits, So therefore correct 54 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 3: use of the natural world is incumbent. But it's not 55 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: correct to say that the world has some kind of 56 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: divine spirit in it. That's not true, Bob. 57 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: We all remember that incident in twenty nineteen when the 58 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: pagan figures of Pacha Mama were taken from Saint Peter's 59 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: thrown into the Tiber, or rather from a local church 60 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: in Rome. There were photos of Pope Francis and a 61 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: few cardinals in the Vatican gardens with the Pacha mamma 62 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: statue there. Francis called them pachr mamma statues. There was 63 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: a firestorm over this at the time. The reaction with 64 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: these revelations are a bit more muted. 65 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that that was much more 66 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 4: outrageous to have those paschamama figurines. And there was a 67 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 4: plant actually that is associated with paschamama placed on the 68 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 4: high altar at Saint Peter's kind of an eager face, 69 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 4: you know, we're going to do this. My worry about 70 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 4: all this is I agree with Father entirely. I can't 71 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 4: for the life believe that the Pope, even thirty years ago, 72 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 4: however long this was, was any doubt about pachamama being 73 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 4: anything other than a kind of a symbol. But you know, 74 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 4: there's always been this problem, especially in missionary territories, where 75 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 4: you try to find a way into the local culture, 76 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 4: and certain symbols work and certain symbols do not. You know, 77 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 4: sometimes water, you know, is helpful toward baptism or something. 78 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 4: The trouble with this Pacha Mama thing is that in 79 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 4: wanting to I think, move toward these indigenous peoples, there 80 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 4: wasn't sufficient care about what exactly does this mean? Now, 81 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 4: if it means you know that this is a symbol 82 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 4: of creation, well you can, you could almost see that. 83 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 4: But we know, I mean, anthropologists go and study this stuff. 84 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 4: We know that Pacha Mama was a figure that was 85 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 4: worshiped as a goddess. Right, there was sacrifice and even 86 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 4: human sacrifice to Pacha Mama. So you know, this is 87 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 4: part of a long history read the last fifty or 88 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 4: sixty years in the Church of being soft toward other religions, 89 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 4: a kind of universalism or syncretism. And there's a deep 90 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 4: theological problem here. We can't just push everything aside and 91 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 4: say we want to be in solidarity with native peoples 92 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 4: or with the earth, and we kind of lose the focus. Look, 93 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 4: the Middle Eastern religions that the Jews already were protesting 94 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 4: against were sort of similar to this, that they worship 95 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 4: different elements of the creation, sex power, you know, the 96 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 4: sun and the moon, whatever it might be. 97 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, on March nineteenth, I want to move on to this. 98 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: That is the tenth anniversary of Pope Francis Is now 99 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: infamous amorris Letitia letter. Pope Leo called the document quote 100 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: a luminous message of hope, and he summoned all the 101 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: presidents of the world's bishop's conferences to Rome in October 102 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: for a meeting built explicitly around that document. Now, the 103 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: section of a Morris on communion for divorced and remarried Catholics, Okay, 104 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: that we spent so much time discussing was specifically cited. 105 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: Father Pope Leo was about to do with Francis never 106 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: quite did openly owning this. Most controversial interpretation of that 107 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: document is that what's about to happen here? 108 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: Or is that playing too far? 109 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: Maybe you know, it might be what's happening. I certainly 110 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 3: disagree with the Pope Leo's characterization that it's a luminous 111 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: documently offering hope. It is a destructive document that undermined 112 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 3: the teaching of the Church concerning the conditions necessary for 113 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: worthy reception of communion and then also attacks the unicity 114 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 3: of marriage. It's treating people in adulterous second unions as 115 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 3: somehow being in a marital relationship of some sort that 116 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: entitles them to receive communion to be treated like people 117 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 3: who are in real marriages. And now the church's teaching 118 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 3: on marriage is directly from the lips of Christ. It 119 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 3: is a divinely revealed truth, and it is a hard 120 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 3: truth that we would say because in fallen human nature, 121 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: of course, divorce is a reality. We see it all 122 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 3: around us. And the approach to that the Church has 123 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: always taken to say is the truth will set you free. 124 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 3: We are not going to pretend that a second marriage 125 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: is a real marriage. And that's what I'm sad to say. 126 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 3: That's what a Marsletitsia does. So I'm hoping that this 127 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: meeting in October that there'll be many bishops who get 128 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: up and say, whatever else the document says about family 129 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 3: life and marital harmony, we've got to abolish this footnote 130 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 3: that allows people who are in an adult or a 131 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: second union to be given holy communion. That has to go. 132 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: It's an offense against Catholic teaching. 133 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: Bob before Dubia cardinals who questioned Pope Francis's statement here 134 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: that footnote, they asked for doctrinal clarification, which never came. Now, 135 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: Pobleo's convening this global meeting to advance. Apparently the document further, 136 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: where does this leave the faithful and where does it 137 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: leave priests in the Church's father was mentioning on the 138 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: indissolubility of marriage. 139 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I think it puts them between a 140 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 4: rock and a hard place, because how what are you 141 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 4: going to do if it appears, even if it just 142 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 4: appears that Rome is saying that these second unions are okay, 143 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 4: and you're a priestudent who believes that we need to 144 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 4: follow Christ, his father was saying. And now someone walks 145 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 4: into your rectory and says, well, wait a minute, I 146 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 4: can get communion because Holy fathers say, you know, it 147 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 4: says I can do this. I think a lot is 148 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 4: going to hinge on what happens at that meeting. Now 149 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 4: it's being billed as it's going to be a sonodyl 150 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 4: discussion about Amoris Letitia, and so let's see who is 151 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 4: listened to. You know, a lot there are. They are 152 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 4: going to be contradictory voices. I believe there and it'll 153 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 4: be interesting to see if they're allowed to speak or 154 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 4: if they're going to be kind of quietly courage not 155 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 4: to raise their voices. And then Ultimately, of course, the 156 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 4: Holy Father is the one who's going to decide about 157 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 4: what went on there, and so there's going to be 158 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 4: a process that goes on here if we really do 159 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 4: get a synodal conversation with everybody. I know a lot 160 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 4: of priests, and I've even heard that the entire dioceses 161 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 4: of priests have stood up at meetings with their bishops 162 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 4: and talked about how upset they are about this, about 163 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 4: the blessing of homosexual couples. This is going to be 164 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 4: a key indicator of what the papacy of Pope Lio 165 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 4: is going to be like, and also a key indicator 166 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 4: of whether the Church going forward at this point in 167 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 4: the twenty first century is going to be faithful to 168 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 4: Christ or whether it's going to a cave to the 169 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 4: culture Father. 170 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: I want to talk for a moment. 171 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: This is kind of auxiliary to the discussion we're having 172 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: about the indissolubility of marriage. The African Bishop's Conference Study 173 00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: Group CCM, they just released a remarkable final document this 174 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: week firmly rejecting polygamy as incompatible with sacramental marriage as 175 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: rooted in Genesis and Christ's own words in the Sonadyl 176 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: process that's often drifted. Father, what does this clarity from 177 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: the African bishop's conference mean to the larger church. 178 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 3: Well, this means that the Holy Spirit is very active 179 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: in the African hierarchy and in the people that they're 180 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 3: working with too. In this committee that was looking at 181 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 3: this question of polygamy, polygamy is an offense against the 182 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 3: divine order in established for man and woman, one man 183 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 3: one woman, that's marriage, not one man five women. So 184 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 3: the African bishops who live in many societies in Africa 185 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: practice polygamy. It's certainly practiced in the Moslim faith and 186 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 3: its pagans in different parts of Africa the same thing 187 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: they rejected, and it's quite clear that this is in 188 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 3: complete harmony with Catholic teaching. The sad part, of course, 189 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 3: in all of this is that why are people outside 190 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 3: of Africa, people in Europe and elsewhere intrigued and pushing 191 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: this notion that we have to accommodate polygamous marriages somehow 192 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 3: In the church's pastoral ministry, no, we don't accommodate anything 193 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: that contradicts the truth. And the Africans have said that, 194 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 3: I think spectacular fidelity, which is a model for the 195 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 3: rest of us. 196 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: Well, this is sort of what Bob was talking about 197 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the program Visa Vipatromama. When you 198 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: try to enculturate, there is a limit to enculturation to 199 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: something that's alien to the Christian faith and the doctrine 200 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: of the faith. 201 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: And that's what I think we're kind of running up 202 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: into here, Bob. 203 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: The International Association of Exorcists met with Pope Leo recently 204 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: and presented him with a report warning of a surge 205 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,599 Speaker 1: in occultism satanism in dioceses all over the world, and 206 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: they brought an image of Saint Michael. They presented it 207 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: to the Pope with their guidelines for the ministry of exorcism, 208 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: and they're requesting a trained exorcist. 209 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: In every diocese. 210 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: Bob, is the Church taking spiritual warfare seriously enough? And 211 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: does it concern you that these designated exorcists are asking 212 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: for reinforcements in the field. 213 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I think it's high time. I don't 214 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 4: think that the Church has ever neglected this. I mean 215 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 4: even in the time of Pope Francis. He talked about 216 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 4: the devil quite a bit, and the way that the 217 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 4: devil prowls in different ways to tempt us and to 218 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 4: draw us away from God. When I saw this, I 219 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 4: was very, very encouraged. It seems to me that just 220 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 4: the fact of his meeting with him already raised the 221 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 4: visibility of this issue of spiritual warfare that is constantly 222 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 4: going on and as part of our tradition. If I 223 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 4: have one criticism, it's that they only want one exorisis perdiosis, 224 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 4: because we know what happens when God disappears from the world. 225 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 4: The devil prowls around like crazy constant. I mean, he's 226 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 4: like a prowler in the neighborhood, you know, checking out 227 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 4: door handles and see where it's unlocked and where he 228 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 4: can enter. So, look, we know that there's been a 229 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 4: rise in if not outright possession, people get obsessed. There 230 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 4: are these different levels that as exorcists have developed to 231 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 4: explain what is going on when someone is being influenced 232 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 4: by an evil spirit. But it's the increase in this 233 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 4: is enormous, and I think that the ministry of delivering 234 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 4: people from these various ways that they're being attacked is 235 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 4: going to be an important part of the church in 236 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 4: the future. If not, we're going to be allowing the 237 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 4: devil to have his run. 238 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, father, we just had on a royal grande and 239 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: people can go check this out. We had Father Dan 240 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: reehill On recently, who's the exorcist in the Diocese of Nashville, 241 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: and he told me that his case load, he can't 242 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: call all of the people that are requesting his services, 243 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: and many of those. 244 00:13:58,600 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: Are non Catholic people. 245 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: You know, they've been through their local pastor and the 246 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: local church and they have no relief, so they've turned 247 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: to him. But he doesn't have the time to go 248 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: visit with everybody on the list. And the exorcisms, he says, 249 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: are taking longer and longer because he claims because of 250 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: the suppression of the sacraments and the practice of the sacraments, 251 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: and it makes those exorcisms in the right harder. What 252 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: do you believe the Vatican should be saying in this moment. 253 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: I mean, the Vatican has not responded to this request yet. 254 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: What do you see on the local level in New 255 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: York and as you travel around the country in the world. 256 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 3: No, I agree with Bob. I think you know, we 257 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: do need more than one exorcist in particularly in big 258 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: diocees and we need, you know, a public awareness of 259 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 3: how to contact the exorcist and you know what his 260 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 3: job is. In each diets. It's supposed to be a 261 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: priest who is an outstanding fidelity deep spirituality, should be 262 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 3: a mature man, someone who's had pastoral experience and certainly 263 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: you know, to reinforce the importance of this work. It's 264 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 3: a small number of people who are actually possessed, but 265 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 3: on the other hand, they need assistance and they should 266 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 3: be helped. And then others who are influenced as Bob's 267 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 3: aid obsession and different levels of involvement with evil and 268 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: diabolical influence. You know, those people need tending to also. 269 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 3: So yeah, reinforcements are always welcome in any spiritual warfare. 270 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: I want to tell you about ave Maria Mutual Funds. 271 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: Ave Maria isn't just about investing, It's about living your values. 272 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: As someone who cares deeply about faith and family, and 273 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: as an ave Maria investor myself, for years, I've always 274 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: believed where we put our money matters. 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Now there's another 293 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: case that we're not hearing too much about, disgrace Jesuit 294 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: Mark or Rupnik. This week, nearly three dozen women who 295 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: were abused over decades by Rupnik say they've gone months 296 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: without receiving information about the canonical process, which was announced 297 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: by the Vatican in Pope Leo last November. According to 298 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: the victim's attorney, those women don't know the composition of 299 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: the tribunal, the calendar of proceedings, nothing father canonically, is 300 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: this acceptable or even legal? And what does it say 301 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: about the Vatican's transparency and credibility. 302 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 3: Well, this is an area where Pope Leo has a 303 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 3: particular expertise, being a canon lawyer himself, and he was 304 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 3: a professor of canon law recall when he was a 305 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 3: priest in Peru. What we need here is a modernization 306 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 3: of procedural norms concerning the conduct of trials and trials 307 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 3: held at the Vatican. In particular, they need to conform 308 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 3: to modern European and American standards of justice, which is 309 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 3: that who the judges are, that's known, what the complaint are, 310 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 3: that's a public document, what the evidence is that'll be 311 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 3: presented in court and also becomes part of a public record. 312 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 3: We also need to know the timetable and calendar for 313 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,719 Speaker 3: the proceedings, because, sad to say, we did have that 314 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 3: in November, but it's never been revealed. How many judges. 315 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 3: Who are they? Have they met? Where do they meet? 316 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: Are they meeting in person? Are they meeting online? Have 317 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 3: any witnesses been conducted? Has father Rupnik been summoned? Has 318 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 3: he given testimony? We know none of these things. This 319 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 3: is unimaginable in a modern European or American justice system. 320 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 3: I think the Vatican, sad to say, is way behind 321 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 3: the eight ball on this. They need to get this 322 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 3: get get this thing straight, because you can't got these 323 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 3: constant meetings which you tell victims of sexual abuse, we're 324 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 3: on your side. We're trying to do what we want 325 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 3: to do, But then we don't know anything that's going on. 326 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 3: In probably the most high profile case since the Macarack matter, 327 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 3: all we know is that Rupnik was not going to 328 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 3: be prosecuted until people protest, and then the Pope, you know, 329 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 3: gave an exception to it, to a statute of limitations expiration. 330 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 3: And then it took another more than a year to 331 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 3: even name it and say that we were going to 332 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 3: have a trial and name judges, and then we don't 333 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: even know who they are. Let scifice to say, anybody 334 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 3: who reads the newspaper knows more about what goes on 335 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 3: in the Norwegian court dealing with traffic violations than we 336 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 3: do what's going on in the most significant abuse case 337 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: by father Rupnik. 338 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: It's unbelievable, Bob, anything to add to that story before 339 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: we move on, Well. 340 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 4: I mean, I was just say the Vaticans has been 341 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 4: notorious for being slow on cases, you know, marriage tribunal 342 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 4: cases as well as others. But this case is so 343 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 4: egregious that almost your credibility hangs on this one particular case. 344 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 4: Because you've got all these women who've been willing to 345 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 4: come forward, here's a man who's even abused this sacrament 346 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 4: of confession and the confection of the yukari and what 347 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know how far you have to 348 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 4: go before you realize that there's an urgency and probably 349 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 4: a lot of people want to kick the can down 350 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 4: the road on this, and that is the problem. This 351 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 4: needs to be dealt with in expeditiously and just settled. Yeah. 352 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: See, I don't want to kick the can. I want 353 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: to kick all those rupe Nick mosaics out of all 354 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: the churches. They're hanging in their eye sores, and I 355 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: think a great insult to his many victims who have 356 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: to look at them when they go into houses of worship. 357 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: But the French Bishop's conference gathered this week in Lurds 358 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: and in a letter this is really interesting. In a 359 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: letter from Cardinal Pietro Paoline, the Vatican Secretary of State, 360 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: sent on behalf of Pope Leo, the Pope is urging 361 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: Francis bishops to quote find concrete ways to generously include 362 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: Catholics attending the traditional Mass in the wider life of 363 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: the Church. Here's the quote, May the Holy Spirit suggest 364 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: concrete solutions to you that will allow for the generous 365 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: inclusion of those sincerely attached to the vetus Ordo in 366 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: accordance with the guidelines established by the Second Vatican Council 367 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: regarding the liturgy. Father, is this a sign of a 368 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: drawdown in the war against the traditional Latin Mass? 369 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 3: I certainly hope so, Raymond, because the inclusion of people 370 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: who worship according to the old form of the Mass 371 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 3: that has been hampered greatly by papal action under Pope Francis. 372 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 3: So it really it's The French bishop should then write 373 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 3: back and to tell Paplia, we appreciate the solicitude. Things 374 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 3: in France have been going very badly ever since traditionionis 375 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 3: custodas was issued. Please revoke that document that will allow 376 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 3: for people to go back into parish churches. I'm glad 377 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 3: that that Pope Leo realizes that there's a need for 378 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 3: inclusion of the people. But this is, you know, this 379 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 3: is like a man made disaster. Benedict had included everybody, 380 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 3: and this was one of the most peacefully accepted moves 381 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 3: of the pontificate of Pope Bende Addict. The surveys that 382 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 3: were conducted prior to the issue of traditional custodas revealed 383 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 3: that most hierarchies were happy. They had very few complaints, 384 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 3: some but few. So Yeah, the first step is get 385 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 3: rid of traditional as custodas and then secondly just establish 386 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 3: quite clearly the people who like to worship in the 387 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 3: mass that was celebrated for over a thousand years, that 388 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 3: they have no stigma attached to them, that they're equal 389 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 3: to anybody else, and they shouldn't be treated as unwelcomed 390 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 3: orphaned children you know, who are fed in the basement. No, 391 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 3: they need to be treated like everybody else. 392 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, not sent to the firehouse chapel one in a diocese. 393 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: And Bob, what do you make of the warm, almost 394 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: gentle language here used and does this require actions by 395 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: the French bishops. 396 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like this is something Rome could 397 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: do fairly quickly. 398 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 4: His father was stipulating, Yeah, well, I have to say, 399 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 4: I've been expecting something like this. It was going to happen, 400 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 4: because it's just the personality of Leo is. There's a 401 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 4: generosity of this. There's there's a real concern for the 402 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 4: for these people who are very fervent and in their belief, 403 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 4: they're they're they're Catholics who want to be deeply Catholic. 404 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 4: Now that said, and I don't want to minimize that 405 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 4: that generosity and that gentleness at all. There still remains 406 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 4: a theological question here, and I think that that is 407 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 4: going to have to be dealt with at a certain point. 408 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 4: That the genius of our genius Pope Pope Benedict was 409 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 4: that he reconnected the church and the liturgy prior to 410 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 4: Vatican Two with the liturgy after Vatican too, and so 411 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 4: the depth of those two things coming together, We've used 412 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 4: his phrase many times as mutual enrichment. That is ultimately 413 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 4: what it has to has to take place. Again, I 414 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 4: don't know at least at this point in his papacy. 415 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 4: I don't know that Leo is going to turn and 416 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 4: then repudiate this this very serious move on the part 417 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 4: of answer. It just doesn't seem to be part of 418 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 4: his personality. But certainly this move shows that he would 419 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,959 Speaker 4: like to move to take the church in that direction. 420 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 4: But I say again, there's a depth here that Benedict 421 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 4: reached out to that cannot be ignored. Ultimately, that we 422 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 4: can't just hive off. As several people have pointed out, 423 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 4: there's an awful lot of Catholicism that occurred before Vatican too, 424 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 4: so you have to make sure that that's present in 425 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 4: the church after Vatican. 426 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: I got to get to this once again. 427 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: Pope Leo is weighing in on the armed conflict in 428 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: Iran and presumably military action in general. 429 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 2: Speaking to ITA. 430 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: Airways staff this week, Pope Leo said, after the tragedies 431 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, aerial bombings quote should have been 432 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: banned forever. 433 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: Father. 434 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: Is this a blanket call to ban aerial bombings? I mean, 435 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: is this morally coherent and does it hold up when 436 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: held next to the Church's just war tradition. 437 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 3: Well, aerial bombing that's indiscriminate should be banned. You know, 438 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 3: in fact that that's something that's quite clear. We are 439 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 3: not supposed to bomb civilian targets. We're not supposed to 440 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 3: bomb innocent civilians. On the other hand, the aerial delivery 441 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 3: of weapons systems is a part of modern warfare, and 442 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 3: if you tried to ban it, what happened is only 443 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 3: countries that observed it, would they be laying themselves open 444 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 3: to outside interference. I mean, the sentiment here is that 445 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 3: the problem is the weapons. The real problem is the 446 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 3: people who own the weapons. The Iranian regime, the dictatorship, 447 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 3: which murdered more than thirty thousand of its own people 448 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 3: before the Americans and Israelis attacked them. They're the one. 449 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 3: They're the problem. They should renounce the use of aerial 450 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 3: and all types of bombardment because they're doing something very wrong. 451 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, I do recall that post Francis 452 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 3: once interview once said that the ally should have bombed 453 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 3: the railways going into Auschwitz. You know, so bombing can 454 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 3: be used for good purposes, and that's certainly you know, 455 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 3: the American military adheres to humanitarian and I say Christian 456 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 3: standards of warfare, which is that we do not target civilians. 457 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: Bob, you've written so much on just war theory, and 458 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: I mean your thoughts on this, this kind of blanket 459 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: ban that the Pope is suggested. 460 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 4: Look, I took this more as a kind of an 461 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 4: expression from the heart that he wished that these things 462 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 4: were banned. But his father rightly says that simply is 463 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 4: not possible in the modern world. You know, when the 464 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 4: bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I've quoted this before. 465 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 4: Winston Churchill said that henceforth security will be the sturdy 466 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 4: child of terror. In other words, no one else would 467 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 4: be willing to drop a bomb because they'd have a 468 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 4: bomb dropped on them. And unfortunately, in the fallen world 469 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 4: that we're in, that kind of mutual deterrence is part 470 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 4: and parcel of keeping the peace. Now, if you look 471 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 4: at Sayer the destruction, for example, the destruction in Gaza, 472 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 4: or even in Europe during World War Two, where as 473 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 4: the war goes on, you start building, you start bombing 474 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 4: more and more places. You compare it, for example, with 475 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 4: the smart bombs that have been dropped on Iran. There's 476 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 4: clateral damage there are people who have been killed there, 477 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 4: but we're talking about thousands. When Iran and Iraq went 478 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 4: to war back in the nineteen eighties without using airfare 479 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 4: at all, they kill a million people. So warfare is 480 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 4: a place where our humanity gets tested. I hope and 481 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 4: pray that the Pope was not making a just worse statement, 482 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 4: that it was just you know, it's like the Paul 483 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 4: the Sicks going to the UN and saying war never again. Well, 484 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 4: of course, no one wants to ever have war, but 485 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,719 Speaker 4: sometimes we need war to prevent even worse things than 486 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:56,640 Speaker 4: war from happening. 487 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: On a more positive note, I want to We usually 488 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: do this at the end of the show. I decided 489 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: to move it up because I want people to hear 490 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: it and see it. Pope Leo has now officially declared 491 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: Father Edward Flanagan, the founder of Boys Town, venerable, that title, 492 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: indicating that Flanagan lived a life of heroic virtues. Flanagan 493 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: was one of the great figures of the twentieth century 494 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: in Catholicism in America, and he began a ministry to 495 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: homeless men in Nebraska, which grew into Boystown, an iconic 496 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: orphanage in school. Father when you look at the totality 497 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: of that man, What is it about him and his 498 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: example that you think Pope Leo is choosing to elevate 499 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: in this moment. 500 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: What to remind us of Well. 501 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 3: You know, the cause, of course, is proposed by people 502 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 3: who are convinced that he's a holy man and a saint. 503 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 3: And now the evidence has convinced the Vatican, yes he 504 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 3: should be placed on that track. And his works married 505 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 3: him being called venerable. No, I've been to Boystown. I 506 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 3: visited his grave. It's a beautiful tomb in the church there. 507 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 3: Admirable what he did? You know, the movie was made 508 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 3: back in the thirties, had a great influence, you know, 509 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 3: so many pro Catholic movies centering on good priests and 510 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 3: with Spencer Tracy Anser Tracy exactly. And Father Flanning was 511 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 3: a very good priest. You know, he was the American 512 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 3: government highly esteemed. He died in Germany because he was 513 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 3: over there after the war trying to assist the Americans 514 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 3: to help German war orphans and the like. So, no, 515 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 3: this is similar to Fulton Sheen. We've had some very brilliant, 516 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 3: well known priests who were truly dedicated to promoting the 517 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 3: mission of Christ. Sheen was primarily evangelization and teaching, and 518 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 3: Father Flannigan was, you know, the work, the hard work 519 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 3: of charity, to take care of your neighbor in need. 520 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Bob, father took he took this win out 521 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: of my sales. We also learned this week about the 522 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: much delayed beaodification of Fulton Sheen, who will be I 523 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: guess beautified on September twenty fourth in Saint Louis. What 524 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: do you mean of the sudden hastening of this cause 525 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: after a long pause. It was basically a pin was 526 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: put in it for six years. As you know, there 527 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: were fights over getting Sheen's body out of Saint Patrick's 528 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: Cathedral in New York and to Peoria, where the cause 529 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: had been situated. 530 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 4: I wish I knew what to make of all his raiment. 531 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's unfortunate that there was this sort 532 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,959 Speaker 4: of internal fighting within the church over the body and 533 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 4: over you know, the look, the process is moving forward, 534 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 4: Thank god it is. Somebody just wrote me a friend 535 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 4: and said, well, why is it in Saint Louis? So 536 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 4: I consulted AI. I have to confess this and Ai 537 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 4: says that Saint Louis is close to Peoria and it 538 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 4: has facilities that are large enough because I think we 539 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 4: can say there is going to be a large crowd 540 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 4: turning up for this, and it's a tribute to what 541 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 4: just the sheer influence that that Fulton Sheen had not 542 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 4: only on Catholics, but on everybody in the United States. 543 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 4: He was the media figure. I can remember back in 544 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 4: the fifties and sixties that everybody, everybody you knew was 545 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 4: watching him when he was on TV, and he was 546 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 4: even drawing away from very popular entertainers at Yeah, a 547 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 4: major figure. And by the way, he's a much more 548 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 4: intellectual figure than people give him credit. 549 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 3: For fact exactly. 550 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: No, his writings are so rich. 551 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 4: I'm reading his christ beautifully written, They're deeply considered, and 552 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 4: there are lots of subjects that he wrote on. He 553 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 4: was an amazing man. And thank God now for American 554 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 4: for the church that is going to be properly on well. 555 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: And speaking of a great priest, I want to turn 556 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: toward the future of the priest stood. Cardinal Jean Claude Holleric, 557 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: the Relater General of the Synod, says the church quote 558 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: cannot continue to exist without women's ordination, never mind that 559 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: his statement flatly contradicts John Paul the Second, who in 560 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: Ortinatio Sacredoteles said this is not this is a closed question. 561 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: Women cannot be ordained. It's closed to debate. And Belgian 562 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: Bishop Johan Bonnie has announced that he intends to ordain 563 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: married men to the priesthood in his diocese by twenty 564 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: twenty eight. Father, regarding Holleric, is this insubordination or just pigheadedness, 565 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: You can call it many things. 566 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 3: What it certainly is is a complete disregard for Catholic 567 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 3: doctrine coming out of the mouth of someone who's a 568 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 3: guardian of that doctrine. I will say the cardinal should 569 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 3: repent of what he said. He should do a mea culpa. 570 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 3: This is a disgraceful comment. The Catholic Church has survived 571 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 3: twenty centuries, and the Lord said that the gates of 572 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 3: Hell will not prevail against her. And he's telling us 573 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 3: now that if we don't disregard Christ and ordain women. 574 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 3: Chris Christ did not designate any women to be priests, 575 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 3: and the Church, the Church has always understood that to 576 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 3: be the meaning of his actions and the job, Paul 577 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 3: the second Toart, this is not an open question. So 578 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 3: he's treating the female priesthood in the way you treat politically, 579 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 3: which is you satisfy constituencies by giving them what they 580 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 3: want when they get loud enough, And that's what he's saying. 581 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 3: It is a total disgrace. He is supposed to uphold 582 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 3: Catholic doctrine. Why this man still thinks that it's appropriate 583 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 3: for him to be a Catholic bishop and cardinal and 584 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 3: say these things in public. He needs to be rebuked. 585 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 3: This is a very bad thing. And as regards to Disha, 586 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 3: Bonnie's statement that he's going to ordain married men, that's disobedient. 587 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 3: He should not do that. Is he encouraging the priest 588 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 3: unto him to disobey him when they do things that 589 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 3: they don't you know, that they want to do. Of 590 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 3: course not if a pastor said, well, guess what, I'm 591 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 3: going to sell the rectory and move to another place, 592 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 3: and I'm going to keep all the money. I don't 593 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 3: care what you say, Bonnie would correctly say, you can't 594 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 3: do that. I'm going to discipline you. Well, I hope 595 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 3: the Pope will tell Bonnie don't ordain a married man, 596 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 3: because you're going to be excommunicated or suspended or removed 597 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 3: if it happens. 598 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, I mean we do have in the Latin 599 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: right in the ordinary you have married men who you 600 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: are or ordain priests, I mean, and certainly in the 601 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: Eastern churches that are in union with Rome you have 602 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: married ordained men. Your thoughts on this question of ordaining 603 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: married men just doing it willy nilly in your own diocese. 604 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 4: Well, again, I see this as kind of a cave 605 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 4: into the culture, and I don't know that that has 606 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 4: ever done any good to the church at this point. 607 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 4: If the church proclaims itself as something different from the culture, 608 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 4: that seems to be what attracts young people. I mean, 609 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 4: we've talked about this before that it's if you want 610 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 4: to look at traditional Latin mashed parishes or with whatever 611 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 4: it might be. And it's interesting, you know, just this 612 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 4: week the Holy Father talked about why the Church ordains 613 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 4: only men. He actually publicly made a statement about this 614 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 4: and why the Church is a hierarchical structure that was 615 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 4: created by God specifically to govern its operations in its 616 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 4: mission to evange the whole world. So here on the 617 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 4: one hand, you have a pope who's asserting what has 618 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 4: been traditionally the understanding in the church about the hierarchy 619 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 4: and the all male priesthood, and then on the other 620 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 4: you have people who just seem to be freelancing that 621 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 4: you know, they have these opinions. Hollaric by the way, 622 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 4: I also talked about having a different opinion about homosexuality, 623 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 4: and then I think he actually said that Pope Francis 624 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 4: agreed with him, and then Francis called him up and said, no, 625 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 4: wait a minute, and they both worked out of way 626 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 4: attract it said, there's chaos there. It's not surprising, by 627 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 4: the way that this is Northern Europe that this has 628 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 4: taken place in where there's been a secularization, and their 629 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 4: remedy is even to further secularize. They don't realize that 630 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 4: what they've already conceded to is the path to ultimate extinction. 631 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 4: There has to be a different spirit and it has 632 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 4: to be vigorously expounded to people and then followed vigorously 633 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 4: in an evangelical way. That's the only thing that's going 634 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 4: to save the church countries. 635 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: Back here in the United States, Father Archbishop Weisenberger of 636 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: Detroit announced that all priests, employees, and volunteers working with 637 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,360 Speaker 1: miners in the archdiocese will now be fingerprinted and connected 638 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: to state and federal criminal databases. This follows an unprecedented 639 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: review of abuse files going back to the nineteen twenties. 640 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: Is this the church catching up to secular institutions or 641 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: is it something more significant? 642 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 3: In your opinion following well, I think it's making use 643 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 3: of modern technology to try and gain all possible background 644 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 3: information on people. And I am in favor of it 645 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 3: as regards employees of the church, because you know people 646 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 3: are employed by the church, you have a responsibility to 647 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 3: make sure that you're not hiring people with criminal background records. Now, 648 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 3: hopefully you know that about your clergy because you've had 649 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 3: them train them in the same but sometimes you have 650 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 3: clergy come from elsewhere who want to work in your diocese. 651 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 3: So I think that's important. Now I'm dubious about volunteers, 652 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 3: as they would call they had to specify what does 653 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 3: that mean? Does that mean if my if a mother 654 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 3: at a Catholic school brings their child to an after 655 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 3: school playgroup in the auditorium, they have to fingerprint her. 656 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 3: I hope that's not what it means, because that's intrusive, 657 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 3: and the sex abuse problem is not because of mothers 658 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 3: at Catholic schools, you know, so they're not the target 659 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 3: for investigation. So I hope this is specified if you 660 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 3: have a contractual relationship, that's a reasonable approach. You know, 661 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 3: I got fingerprint and I became a Navy chaplain, you know, 662 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 3: in the US government did that. I have no objection 663 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 3: to that, So I think it's good in one sense 664 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 3: in one area for employees. Regarding volunteers, that's something I 665 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 3: would have have to have strict conditions regarding who that's 666 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 3: going to be subject to and for what purposes. 667 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, father, I can remember years ago when you know, 668 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: my own family, when my children were in school and 669 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: my wife went to bring muffins into the class. She 670 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: needed to undergo the sexual abuse sensitivity courses before she 671 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: could go. I mean, they do subject mothers to this 672 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: kind of regime already, So I guess they're gonna be 673 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: fingerprinted and I scam next. But we'll see what happens 674 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: there before we go our ray of light. On August 675 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: twenty seventh of last year, a gunman barricaded the doors 676 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: of the chapel at Annunciation Catholic School in Minnesota and 677 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 1: open fire. Two children were killed, twenty one others were wounded, 678 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,760 Speaker 1: and in the chaos, a young student named Victor Greenowalt 679 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: threw himself on top of his fifth grade classmate, Weston 680 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: Halsney to shield him from the bullets. Victor was hit, 681 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: Western survived. This week, Victor Greenawalt received the Citizen Honor 682 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: Award from the Congressional Medal of Honor Society. After the shooting, 683 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: Weston told reporters, my friend Victor saved me though, because 684 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: he laid on top of me, but he got hit. 685 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: I was super scared for him, but I think now 686 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: he's okay. I hope you're okay, and I'm praying for you, 687 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, Bob and Father. With Holy Week and Easter coming, 688 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: Victor Greenawalt's instinctive act of self sacrifice or willing to 689 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: sacrifice himself, being prepared to lay down his life for 690 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: his friend does communicate a lot your thoughts. 691 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 4: Bomb Yeah, I mean, it's an amazing case that a kid, 692 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 4: you know, a fifth grade kid, would put himself on 693 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 4: the line for someone else, and you know they must 694 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,439 Speaker 4: have all been absolutely terrified. You know, I have to say, 695 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 4: I don't know if I like Congressional medals being passed 696 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 4: out to fifth graders, but maybe in this case I'll 697 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 4: make an exception. You know. It doesn't leave him anything 698 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 4: to aspire to until he gets when he gets to 699 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 4: sixth grade or seventh grader over well, whoever it is. 700 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 4: But I mean, let's honor this. This is true heroism. 701 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 4: And really, you know, without reflection, a lot a lot 702 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,399 Speaker 4: of modern martyrs actually have found their ways to death 703 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 4: because they've done something similar. 704 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,439 Speaker 1: That's exactly I was thinking of the young martyrs who 705 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: offered themselves, and this little boy, I think he deserves 706 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: the Congressional Medal. 707 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 2: Father. 708 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I know this is not the Congressional Medal 709 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 3: of Honor itself. It's the society, which has its own awards. 710 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 3: So he can still earn the Congressional Medal of Honor 711 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 3: if be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor if he 712 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,399 Speaker 3: does something in the military later in life. But let's 713 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 3: just say that when I see these kind of stories, 714 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 3: I'm reminded of you know, how Christ said, let the 715 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 3: children come to me, and then unless you become like 716 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 3: a little child, you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. 717 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 3: Children perceive the moral law, the justice of sacrifice on 718 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 3: behalf of your neighbor. They see it all. And this 719 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 3: is a kid who followed that teaching, so he was 720 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 3: well taught. God bless his parents. They raised a generous kid, 721 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,799 Speaker 3: the school teachers. And yeah, that's so heartening to hear 722 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 3: stories like this. God bless that boy. 723 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you see Bob, and he has he has 724 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: a room. Now he can go strive for the Congressional 725 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: Medal of Honor. This is kind of the bronze on 726 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 1: the way to the gold. But God bless Victor. Amazing 727 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: story and a beautiful example of. 728 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 2: Willingness to risk your own life. 729 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: To save another, beautiful and a fifth grader. He shames us. 730 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 2: All gentlemen, grateful to you as always. 731 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: If you want more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse, 732 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or the 733 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 1: podcast wherever you get yours on behalf of Robert Royal, 734 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray. Until the Posse rides again, Stay the course, 735 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: follow the light. 736 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 2: I'm Raimond Arroyo. We'll see you next time a Royal 737 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 2: Grande 738 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: Is produced in partnership with DP Studios and iHeart Podcasts, 739 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: and it's available on the iHeartRadio, Apple, wherever you get 740 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: your podcasts.