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Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the Professional Homegirl Podcast. Before

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Speaker 1: we begin today's episode, we want to remind you that

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Speaker 1: the views and opinions expressed on this podcast are those

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Speaker 1: of the host and guests and are intended for educational

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Speaker 1: and entertaining purposes. In this safe space, no question is

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Speaker 1: off limits because you never know how someone's storyline can

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Speaker 1: be your lifeline. The Professional Homegirl Podcast is here to

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Speaker 1: celebrate the diverse voices, stories and experiences of women of color,

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Speaker 1: providing a platform for authentic and empowering conversations. There will

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Speaker 1: be some key king, some tears, but most importantly a

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Speaker 1: reminder that tough times don't last, but professional Homegirls do

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Speaker 1: enjoy the show.

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Speaker 2: Happy New Year, Professional Homegirls. I hope all is cute now.

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Speaker 2: A lot of y'all been hitting me up asking me

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Speaker 2: about my holiday season, especially New Year's if I had

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Speaker 2: any New Year's resolutions, So thank you, and I will

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Speaker 2: be honest with y'all. I never thought that I would

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Speaker 2: bring in the New Year the way that I did.

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Speaker 2: Definitely didn't see it on my bingo car, not one bit.

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Speaker 2: So many of you know that I never met my

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Speaker 2: father before, and you know in the past we definitely

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Speaker 2: tried to connect several times via phone, but the timing

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Speaker 2: was definitely not right. And I think that we in

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Speaker 2: order for us to get to the space that we're

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Speaker 2: in now, I think that we both had to just

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Speaker 2: let go of a lot of things and meet each

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Speaker 2: other where we're at. And one of those things that

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Speaker 2: we had to let go of, especially for me, was

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Speaker 2: just expectations. And you know, we reconnected again on Christmas,

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Speaker 2: and I have to say this time feels different. It

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Speaker 2: really does, so regardless of what the outcome may be,

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Speaker 2: I am looking forward to building a relationship with him.

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Speaker 2: And plus I'm starting to see where I get my

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Speaker 2: personality from, because this nigga is mad for y'all, no filter,

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Speaker 2: no whatsoever. But like, we definitely be keen on the

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Speaker 2: phone and be cracking up, and I'd been like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I got fucks with this nigga. But on top of that,

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Speaker 2: you know his sister, which is my aunt, she came

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Speaker 2: to my house and we already had a good relationship

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Speaker 2: so far, but we never spent a lot of time

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Speaker 2: with each other. So she came over and she spent

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Speaker 2: a few days with me child, and you know, she

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Speaker 2: bought her the New Year's with me, and like I said,

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Speaker 2: definitely wasn't on my bigo car. But I feel so

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Speaker 2: close to that side of the family now just by

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Speaker 2: spending time with her and also just by you know,

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Speaker 2: speaking to my father every day since Christmas. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've really been enjoying this time, just really to get

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Speaker 2: to know that side of the family. So AnyWho, so

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Speaker 2: send me an email at Hello at thepog podcast dot

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Speaker 2: com and let me know how y'all's New Year's went.

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Speaker 2: I would love to hear about it. Now, we are

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Speaker 2: kicking off twenty twenty five with some amazing stories. And

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Speaker 2: I don't know if y'all notice this, but we are

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Speaker 2: almost at the end of season two. You know we're

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Speaker 2: going to go out with a bang.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Now, today's guest shares their journey as a parent navigating

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Speaker 2: their child's transition, opening up about the challenges, triumphs, and

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Speaker 2: profound lessons learned along the way. Beyond their personal story,

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Speaker 2: we explore their groundbreaking role in politics, discussing LGBTQYA plus representation,

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Speaker 2: the state of the political landscape, and the ongoing fight

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Speaker 2: for equality for all y'all. This conversation was just a

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Speaker 2: pure testament to resilience, advocacy, and the beauty of living

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Speaker 2: in your truth regardless of how old you are. So

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Speaker 2: get ready because my child is transgender. Stars now all right,

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Speaker 2: First of all, Happy New Year. You're my first guest

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five. So how was your New Year?

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Speaker 4: Oh? It was beautiful that some weird stuff came home.

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Speaker 2: What weird?

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Speaker 4: Well, wasn't we It was actually a lot of fun.

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Speaker 4: Some really big supporters of mine asked me to earlier

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Speaker 4: this year, asked for last year, asked me to come

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Speaker 4: to what is known as the New Year's Eve furry Ball,

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Speaker 4: and I was kind of like, I mean, you know what,

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Speaker 4: I loved trying new things and it was actually a

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Speaker 4: lot of fun and everyone was really cool and I

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Speaker 4: couldn't stay for the whole thing because I wanted to

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Speaker 4: spend like bring in the New Year with my children.

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Speaker 4: So I was like, thank you providing me, and I

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Speaker 4: dressed up as a mouse. I had mouse of years

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Speaker 4: and a tail, and so it was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: I feel like my New Year's was very unexpected as well.

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Speaker 2: I shared this with my listeners. So I never met

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Speaker 2: my father before and since Christmas, my father and I

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Speaker 2: have been talking every single day. And in the midst

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Speaker 2: of that, I always had a great relationship with his sister,

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Speaker 2: who's my aunt, but she bought in a new year

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Speaker 2: with me. She came to my house and spent the

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Speaker 2: night with me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah awesome. Ah, I love that. Yeah, that's a great

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Speaker 4: way to bring in the new year.

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Speaker 2: Right, gotta be feeling all warm and shit inside. Well,

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Speaker 2: like I told you off the air, it is such

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Speaker 2: an honor to have you on a show because I

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Speaker 2: feel like I've been trying to get a hold of

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Speaker 2: you for like what six to eight months, and now

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Speaker 2: we're finally here. I was like, what is this?

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Speaker 4: You know, I was like, oh my goodness. I was

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Speaker 4: campaigning for my re election when you first sent me

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Speaker 4: the email. So I was like, my head was like, WHOA.

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Speaker 2: I can imagine. I can imagine. So I feel like

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Speaker 2: there are so many different ways we can dive into

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Speaker 2: your story, but I feel like it's important to start

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Speaker 2: with you. So, how it does it feel to hold

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Speaker 2: the title of being the first non binary elected official

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Speaker 2: in Delaware?

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Speaker 4: You know it, I'm just me, you know, and having

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Speaker 4: that title is, you know, the first non binary person

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Speaker 4: to be in the State of Delaware here, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It just I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I know, the representation is super important to see, but

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Speaker 4: for me, you know, I'm just going in and doing

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Speaker 4: my thing. I mean, granted, a lot of times I

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Speaker 4: think people don't necessarily understand what the non binary like

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Speaker 4: aspects can be, and there is this this belief that

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Speaker 4: I'm supposed to look a certain way. You know, most times,

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Speaker 4: I think the standard idea of what non binary might

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Speaker 4: mean is what we used to call adrogyny or adrogynist.

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Speaker 4: And I'm not that I'm very fem presenting. I'm very

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Speaker 4: you know. Yeah, so like you know, I'm like, but

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Speaker 4: it doesn't necessarily negate how I identify. And I'm you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm hoping that as I continue in this space, I

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Speaker 4: can show that being non binary can look a variety

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Speaker 4: of weights and it does not dismiss who we are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you always see yourself in the office or

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Speaker 2: did this just unfold over time?

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Speaker 4: New So I am not into politics, I will say, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I just didn't. I'm once say I didn't care. I

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Speaker 4: just didn't quite necessarily see what differences were being made for,

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Speaker 4: especially communities like mine. But then my advocacy in the

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Speaker 4: LGBTQ community for trans rights kind of started putting me

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Speaker 4: in spaces with political advocates and elect officials, and I guess,

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Speaker 4: in a weird way, it did unfold over time. I

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Speaker 4: had a lot of people who are like, you're already

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Speaker 4: making change to policy. You're already doing this, right, why

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Speaker 4: aren't you in office to make you know, bigger change?

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Speaker 4: And I was kind of like, I don't think I

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Speaker 4: will be a good and I'm it just kind of

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Speaker 4: everything fell into my lap in a weird way of serendipity.

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Speaker 4: You know. I challenged myself a lot. You know, I've

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Speaker 4: always been someone who challenges themselves, and I was kind

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Speaker 4: of like, okay, I'm I only run if I finished

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Speaker 4: my two year master's program in less than two years.

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Speaker 4: And then I finished it in fourteen months, and I

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Speaker 4: was like, darn it, why did I challenge myself? I'm

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Speaker 4: so good right? But that actually wasn't even what finally

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Speaker 4: was the straw that made me decide, yes, I'm doing this.

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Speaker 4: It was a conversation with my predecessor during my RD meeting.

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Speaker 4: And for those who don't know what r D is,

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Speaker 4: it's your residential district or representative district. I don't know

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Speaker 4: if they're called other things in other states, but here

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Speaker 4: at are called representative districts. And it was a discussion

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Speaker 4: about gun control, particularly surrounding permit to purchase, and I

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Speaker 4: just was like listening to the reasonings why he didn't

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Speaker 4: want to vote for it, and all I could think

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Speaker 4: of was, We've had so many mass shootings for our children.

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Speaker 4: I'm a mom, but on top of that, I am

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Speaker 4: the I'm the child of a veteran, I am I

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Speaker 4: know many police officers I know, and I'm part of

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Speaker 4: the LGBTQ community and I have a mental health background.

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Speaker 4: We don't find ways to keep guns out of the

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Speaker 4: hands of those who could use them to hurt themselves.

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Speaker 4: We're going to continue to see this rise in suicide rates,

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Speaker 4: which is what we've been seeing. And I was kind

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Speaker 4: of just like trying to have this conversation with him

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Speaker 4: as his constituent at the time, like, you know, if

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Speaker 4: we're talking about mass shootings, because it kept bringing up

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Speaker 4: mass shootings, and like, these are people who legally own

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Speaker 4: guns using them against children who have no ability to

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Speaker 4: fight back, and we need to do something about that.

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Speaker 4: And he's like, I don't believe that I need proof.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, so funny. I just did a

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Speaker 4: research paper before I graduated from my master's program. I

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Speaker 4: have all these peer review articles.

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Speaker 2: You know, what proof do you need? It's in the news,

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Speaker 2: is everywhere?

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Speaker 4: Is it real? Though? Right? And you know it was

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Speaker 4: after that discussion I and we got out of the

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Speaker 4: committee meeting. I just sat back and was like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I can't trust someone to represent me if they can't

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Speaker 4: represent how to keep my community safe and alive. Right,

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Speaker 4: So then I was like, I guess I'm running. I

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Speaker 4: don't know what I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: And if I'm not mistaken, I feel like America is

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Speaker 2: the only country that has a large number of mass shootings. Right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that is crazy.

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Speaker 4: It's it's it's insane and it is a problem. And

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Speaker 4: I wasn't you know honest, I'd never run for anything

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Speaker 4: in my life, Like I never even tried to run

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Speaker 4: for like class president him. Never, you know, I run

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Speaker 4: for so little. I actually don't even job. I see

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Speaker 4: me the girl anytimes, see anyone jogging like you just

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Speaker 4: look unhappy.

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Speaker 2: And look at you. You've run it for a whole office.

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Speaker 4: I was like, dang, I went straight from I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to do pilates today too. I'm going to run

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Speaker 4: for right, right right. And I mean, I just did

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Speaker 4: what I do best. I went to my talks to

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Speaker 4: people and I door knocked, and I always shared a

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Speaker 4: story with you, who are you know, getting to that

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Speaker 4: voting age, who are like, should I vote? And I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 4: if you want to see at least local change. From

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Speaker 4: the federal level, it can be tricky, but local is

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Speaker 4: where a lot of the change actually does happen. And

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Speaker 4: I always share had I not done this and had

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Speaker 4: people not believed in my message, I wouldn't have won,

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Speaker 4: because I literally won against him by twenty four votes.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah wow, And.

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Speaker 4: He was a sixteen year incumbent.

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Speaker 2: But that just lets you know that people are ready

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Speaker 2: for change.

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Speaker 4: They were, they were, and you know I was. I

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Speaker 4: represented something that a lot of times, you know, if

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Speaker 4: you're not from Delaware, my district, District thirteen is Ellesmere,

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Speaker 4: and anyone if you talk to anyone from Delaware who's

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Speaker 4: driven through Delaware through Elsmere and say, hey, what is

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Speaker 4: your perception of Ellesmere? The perception is cops speed trap,

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Speaker 4: white races, And that is not even close. Yes, we

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Speaker 4: are a speed trap, do not speak through it and police.

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Speaker 4: My district is also twenty seven percent Hispanic. There's a

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Speaker 4: lot of LGBTQ people in my district. It's so diverse.

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Speaker 4: My district is so diverse, and people don't see that,

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Speaker 4: and I think I represented that diversity. You know, I'm disabled,

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Speaker 4: so I'm actually also the first visibly disabled elected official.

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Speaker 2: Oh I did not.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I'm an ambulatory wheel chair user. Sometimes I have

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Speaker 4: a walker. It depends, it depends on the day. But

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Speaker 4: seeing someone like that, so sometimes I was door knocking

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Speaker 4: in my wheelchair.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow.

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Speaker 4: And you know I'm again I'm a mother and I

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Speaker 4: have children who are autistic and so being able to

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Speaker 4: connect with people there. And I also have the VA

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Speaker 4: Hospital in my district, so being the child of a

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Speaker 4: veteran really yeah. So it was a lot of reasons,

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Speaker 4: and I'm so grateful my district trusted in me, and

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Speaker 4: I do, strangely enough, love the work I do. I

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Speaker 4: still don't like politics, but I do love policy, and

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Speaker 4: that's how I usually explain it the people. I hate

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Speaker 4: the drama and the dramatics of politics, but I love

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Speaker 4: good policy that I know is going to impact people

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Speaker 4: that I care.

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Speaker 2: Like, I hate the politics and the politics.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there's a growing acceptance of lgbt QIA

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Speaker 2: plus leaders in politics or do you feel or do

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Speaker 2: you still feel there's a huge resistance there.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna be honest, I think there's still resistance. I

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Speaker 4: think when we are trying very hard to at least

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Speaker 4: get legislation that will protect our community as a whole,

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Speaker 4: we will see a little bit more pushback, a little

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Speaker 4: bit more doubt and questions. And that's a problem because

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Speaker 4: at this point, it's not like we don't know that

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Speaker 4: LGBTQIA people exist like right and have for a while, and.

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Speaker 2: I mean we're in twenty twenty five, Like, come on.

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Speaker 4: Now, I mean when I someone coming in non binary,

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Speaker 4: my pronouns have been made fun of in my job,

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Speaker 4: you know, and I oftentimes just don't use them pronouns

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Speaker 4: at work. I just don't because I am willing to

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Speaker 4: hide that piece of myself or just keep it, you know,

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Speaker 4: to myself, in order to get good bills paths.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, what's so funny that you mentioned that,

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Speaker 2: because when I when you fill out the form to

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Speaker 2: be a guest on the show, and one of the

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Speaker 2: questions in the form everyone it says, what should I

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Speaker 2: know about you? And you said that your pronouns is

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Speaker 2: she and them. And then when I was reading your story,

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Speaker 2: I read that you was not binary, and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I said, I've never met anybody who goes by it's

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Speaker 2: not binary, that she and them. So that's that's funny

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Speaker 2: that you said that, that you feel like you have

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Speaker 2: to hide that part of you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, for a while I tried, you know, I was like,

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Speaker 4: say them, say them, but you know, no one's going

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Speaker 4: to use it. And look, I'll be honest, even I

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Speaker 4: slip up on my own pronoun you know that's real.

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Speaker 4: You know, I had no opportunities really to come out,

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Speaker 4: and that term didn't exist when I was younger, and so,

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Speaker 4: you know, I always knew I wasn't sis hetero, like

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Speaker 4: I knew I wasn't SIS, and I certainly know I

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Speaker 4: wasn't heterosexual. I just didn't have words yet for that.

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Speaker 4: And strangely enough, my fourteen year old is non binary

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Speaker 4: and strictly goes by dayam pronouns. And they helped me

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Speaker 4: really like, okay, I think this is this is okay. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so there's spaces where I'm perfectly fine using bay them pronouns,

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Speaker 4: but I also recogniz eyes there are going to be

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Speaker 4: spaces where it's not going to be safe or it's

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Speaker 4: not going to be feasible for me, and I, you know,

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Speaker 4: you just kind of it sucks, but hopefully one day

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Speaker 4: it's not going to be a problem.

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Speaker 2: Now, before we get into your journey of you know,

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Speaker 2: embracing your true self, what were your thoughts on the

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Speaker 2: recent presidential election. I, you know, I have eggs.

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Speaker 4: So I have my good friends, my very close friends

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Speaker 4: who have known me. I have one friend who's known

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Speaker 4: me over forty almost almost forty years. I have always

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Speaker 4: had this weird gift, if we want to call it that.

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Speaker 4: At the point now, I'm like, I think it's a curse.

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Speaker 4: Ever since I was a little kid, I could always

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Speaker 4: determine a presidential election.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 4: So my dad loved kind of betting on things, and

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Speaker 4: he would be like, Okay, we're here, now, what do

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Speaker 4: you think? And I have yet to be wrong, And

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Speaker 4: at this point I really wish I could. I knew

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Speaker 4: the first time when he won the first time in

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Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, I knew the moment he came down the

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Speaker 4: escalator to announce his run for president that he was

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Speaker 4: going to become a president. I knew it by that.

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Speaker 2: What was it like? What gave it away?

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Speaker 4: I want to say, I've always had this intuition of

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Speaker 4: human nature, which why I'm a therapist, as you know,

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Speaker 4: as a state rep. But I just understand human nature.

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Speaker 4: And when people feel very disenfranchised, when people are angry

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Speaker 4: and scared and bitter and hungry, they yeah, they will.

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Speaker 4: They will find the next the group that they can

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Speaker 4: oppress the most. I don't like feeling this way. I

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Speaker 4: don't like knowing I could be next. So I would

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Speaker 4: rather put someone else under the bus.

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Speaker 2: M hm.

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Speaker 4: You know when you know, I always believe this, and

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Speaker 4: that's where people were, and that's where people still are,

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Speaker 4: you know, between having a black man as a president,

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Speaker 4: there was still this idea. And I just finished listening

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Speaker 4: to this amazing book by George M. Johnson called Flamboyant.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing. It's about the Harlan Renaissance, but in the

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Speaker 4: queer community. So he touches on.

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Speaker 2: I heard that book. Is it like a boil on

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Speaker 2: the cover? Were like, So.

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Speaker 4: That's his first book. All boys aren't blue. Yeah, And

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Speaker 4: he has one called Flamboyance, which like talks about Langston

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Speaker 4: Hughs and like all the queer people during the Harlan Renaissance.

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Speaker 4: And you know, he talks about how black people are

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Speaker 4: often pitted. We are already oppressed by white supremacy, and

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Speaker 4: then we ultimately pit ourselves against each other because we

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Speaker 4: have been taught that there can only be one Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and that's still a form of white supremacy, because that's

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Speaker 4: how we've been taught to believe. And I think after

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Speaker 4: seeing a black black man in office, you know, we

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Speaker 4: saw people like gross no and and my daughter and

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Speaker 4: I got to meet the Obama's there just.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely I heard Michelle first lady Michelle Obama says he

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Speaker 2: had daughter, that she's so beautiful.

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Speaker 4: I was, I was like, yeah, she's like I was

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Speaker 4: like da. But then, you know, and then we had

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Speaker 4: four years of Trump, and I think people are like

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Speaker 4: some people finally were like, we can't do this again.

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Speaker 4: But we all still we still kind of stuck with

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Speaker 4: the status quo. He I always not poo pooing on Biden.

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Speaker 4: I always believe that as human beings, we tend to

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Speaker 4: go with what we're comfortable with because it's too scary

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Speaker 4: to try something different. That's just nature, that's just how

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Speaker 4: we've always been. Some of us are willing to step

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Speaker 4: outside of that box, but most of us are like,

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Speaker 4: but what happens if I make a mistake? What happens

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Speaker 4: if I'm wrong? And what ifs? Is what causes us

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Speaker 4: to stick to the status quo. And I think a

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Speaker 4: lot of times in politics they rely on that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and so I was not surprised by this election because

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Speaker 4: I already knew it was going to happen this way.

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Speaker 4: I think I had a sign too, you know. The

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Speaker 4: day the day Biden announced that he wasn't running again,

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Speaker 4: I was at the zoo with a client because I'm

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Speaker 4: a mobile outpatient therapist, so I get to take my

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Speaker 4: clients to places for therapeu to breathings. We went to

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Speaker 4: the zoo and what you see. There's a bald eagle

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Speaker 4: at the zoo and he was in the nest box

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Speaker 4: being picked on by a tiny raven. I think it

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Speaker 4: was a raven. This raven would bounce up peck inside

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Speaker 4: the box. The eagle would make that weird eagle sound,

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Speaker 4: and then the raven would tackle I kid you not,

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Speaker 4: this happened. And then my foam came. I looked down

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Speaker 4: and it was my friend from a National Guard showing

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Speaker 4: me the letter of resignation or like that he wasn't

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Speaker 4: running again. I was like, is this a signe wow?

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Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, so I'm not surprised, but truly

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Speaker 4: am not. I just I'm scared for the people who

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Speaker 4: truly believe that things are going to get better. I'm

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Speaker 4: scared for the people who are about to lose things

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Speaker 4: they didn't expect to lose. And I don't want it

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Speaker 4: to be a pointing finger situation. I don't want us

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Speaker 4: to be like, ha ha, we told you so, because

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Speaker 4: they're struggling now too, and if one person struggling, then

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Speaker 4: we're all struggling at this point. Yeah, and no one

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Speaker 4: gets to laugh about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you think she's gonna run again?

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't think.

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Speaker 4: I don't think. That was exhausting. And the way they

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Speaker 4: was such a consolation price, you know, it was such

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Speaker 4: a consolation price. It was kind of like, hey, here

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Speaker 4: you go, and you know, I get tired for black women. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that have to be the consolation prize.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw a picture of a drinking wine and

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Speaker 2: I said, yeah, she's not running again.

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Speaker 4: I mean you I could tell just by the way

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Speaker 4: she walked off stage after. I was like, that's how

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Speaker 4: my mom would walk away from me after She's definitely

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Speaker 4: told me I'm grounded for a very long time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like you have forced her hand, like I'm done.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I think she's just gonna enjoy her time

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Speaker 4: with her her family, and she deserves it. I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: put this on anyone. This was not easy. I have

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Speaker 4: to run every two years. It is hard, especially call

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Speaker 4: into multiple intersections.

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Speaker 2: Well, earlier, you mentioned how you always knew that you

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Speaker 2: wasn't heterosexual, So can you shure I've been about your

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Speaker 2: journey of discover discovering, and embracing your career identity.

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Speaker 4: So I think I was like fourteen when I told

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Speaker 4: my mom that I was I liked women too. I

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Speaker 4: just knew I certainly probably didn't like men nearly as

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Speaker 4: much as I he heard women. But I don't mind men.

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Speaker 4: I just wish they wouldn't speak and I or breathing

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Speaker 4: my general vicinity. They have what I like, I just

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Speaker 4: don't like the other parts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the chemical make up amend Man. Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, but you just have just that and not

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Speaker 4: the other things. Yeah, yeah, I just I've always and

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Speaker 4: I've never been one for like monogamy. Like I never

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Speaker 4: understood that either. Oh no, even as a little little kid,

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Speaker 4: I would just I'd read like fairy tales. And I

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Speaker 4: know my mom and I've talked about this. When I

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Speaker 4: guess I was like eight, she read me Red Riding

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Speaker 4: Hood or something like that, and it didn't registered at

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Speaker 4: red Ridinghood. It was a little girl in my head.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I just thought she was some woman

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Speaker 4: trying to get to her grandma. And I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 4: there's this wolf man person and there's a huntsman dude

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Speaker 4: over here. I'm like, I know, instead of going to

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Speaker 4: grandma's house, let's just all go to whoever's house and

433
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 4: be together whoever. I never actually, it never made sense

434
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 4: to me, and I'm still that way now. Look, honestly,

435
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 4: if if two gorgeous K drama dudes just wanted to

436
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 4: come and just wow, I would be fine. I'd be like, look,

437
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 4: I don't even need to know your name. There needs

438
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 4: be no language barrier here be for me all the time.

439
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: But wait, you're married now right? Oh? Oh okay, okay,

440
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: because I've read that you was. I guess Trindley's father

441
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: is was your ex husband?

442
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 4: Yes?

443
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay, yeah.

444
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 4: Now we got divorced when my now ten year old

445
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 4: was two.

446
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: So oh wow.

447
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 4: I have been raising my babies on my own and

448
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 4: I we do very well. That is, speaking of ten

449
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 4: year old. That was my ten year old offering me candy. Hi,

450
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 4: he's my youngest.

451
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 2: But no. So what was your family's reaction when when

452
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: you told them that you were attracted to women as well?

453
00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 4: Conversion therapy?

454
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 3: Mm?

455
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 4: I was raised in the church. I had to see

456
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 4: a religious counselor it didn't work.

457
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it never works.

458
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 4: But all it taught me how to do was hate

459
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 4: who I was m and hide who I was. So

460
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 4: I learned I knew that if I it was weird

461
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 4: because at that moment, I knew I didn't want children either.

462
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 4: And my reasoning was, if this is how we're supposed

463
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 4: to raise children, I don't want to do it mm hmm.

464
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 4: And so I was sure I'd never be all. But

465
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 4: when I became a mom, I also then was like,

466
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 4: if that's how we were supposed to raise children. I

467
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 4: will not do the same m and I didn't. I

468
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 4: haven't obviously.

469
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you talk about conversion therapy, and I

470
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 2: was just thinking about other things that kids or young

471
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: adults may see they would make them hate themselves. So

472
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 2: what are your thoughts on how the media portrays young

473
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: transgender children.

474
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 4: As someone who has watched the media portray my daughter

475
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 4: as a monster, I oftentimes believe that this is where

476
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 4: we come in as the ones who are supportive and

477
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 4: the ones who do have that representation for that community,

478
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 4: to show them that you are not a monster and

479
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 4: you are not a mistake. One of the one of

480
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 4: the quotes you know that trend is known for us.

481
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 4: I am not a mistake. I'm a masterpiece. And that's

482
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 4: how I, you know, always say like you are a masterpiece.

483
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 4: You have been put together in such a beautiful way

484
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 4: that you inspire adults to be better. Right, So, and

485
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 4: I think in a weird way versus how trans people

486
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 4: were portrayed on TV in the imediate when I was

487
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 4: younger to what it's looking like now, it's definitely gotten better.

488
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sure, you know.

489
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 4: I often tell people I didn't know anything about trans people,

490
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 4: especially as Trinity, you know, was trying to tell me something.

491
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 4: All I had to go home was when we had

492
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: Jerry Springer is a manner as a woman, Like that

493
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 4: was all I had And that was like you think

494
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 4: back on that, that was absolutely offensive.

495
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: Well, Jerry, that was a wild show.

496
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 4: I mean I would total audience for for real, like

497
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna die, but I want to.

498
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: Do the Yeah, you know what's so funny. I had

499
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: a conversation with this woman, she's a trans woman, and

500
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: she was saying how that's when she finally saw herself

501
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 2: by watching the Jerry Springer show. Yes, as herful as

502
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: it was, she said, it kind of helped her find

503
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: her I didn'ty and she was able to articulate despite

504
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: all the chaos and stuff.

505
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I mean there's always way snatching somewhere. No,

506
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 4: but you know, it was it. I think we are

507
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 4: we are seeing a generation that recognizes it. We do

508
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 4: see it portrayed far better, especially in cartoons. We just

509
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 4: watching Squig Names too.

510
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: I've been watching it too. I'm almost almost.

511
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 4: There's a trans character.

512
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

513
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like we and I know some people are like,

514
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 4: why aren't I having assisman? But when you think about Koreata,

515
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 4: you're not going to really fine actors who are lgbt

516
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 4: Q and out like that.

517
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

518
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 4: And the actor who who who portrayed, who portrays this character,

519
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 4: he really did his research, he talked to trans people

520
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 4: and he's I think I think he did a fantastic job.

521
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 4: And so I think I think we're getting there. I think, however,

522
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 4: I do fear how policy and the way we talk

523
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 4: about trans kids, in particular these policies is what is

524
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: actually going to be the problem. Not the media.

525
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

526
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: Do you think that the media does enough to highlight

527
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: the challenges enjoys a parenting transgend the children.

528
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 4: No. I mean maybe back when we first went public

529
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 4: with our story, there was probably a little bit more

530
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 4: about us. But it has shifted because I think it

531
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 4: changed strictly because we thought it was fine. You know,

532
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 4: we're like, oh, we don't need to do this anymore.

533
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 4: Look how accepting and open people are now, and I

534
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 4: feel like we're going backwards. In fact, I had posted

535
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 4: on Facebook and like when Trinity transition, the first thing

536
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 4: I had to create was a something called a safeholder.

537
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,719
Speaker 4: Wasn't in this safe So back during that time in

538
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 4: order to protect you and your child from possible CPS

539
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 4: or removal for abuse, we created holders that had haper work, pictures,

540
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 4: any notes from doctors and therapists to have on hand. Mmmm.

541
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 4: And I said that, But for Hyperion, that's my fourteen

542
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 4: year old, I didn't. I haven't made one. I didn't

543
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 4: have to because I thought everything was fine. I'm like,

544
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 4: but I think I'm going to have to make one

545
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 4: for Hyperion now, Hyperion staring at me. Hyperion now, just

546
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 4: just in case, just in case. And I'm like, I'll

547
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: do a video.

548
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: And if I'm not mistake of Hyperion is now transgender

549
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: as well, right.

550
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 4: Yes, not binary, not very And so I was like,

551
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 4: if you want me to do a video explaining how

552
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 4: to create a safe bolder, I will, And so I

553
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 4: actually I will be doing that because because we are

554
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 4: at a place I think we're going to need them.

555
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 4: I think we're going to need them again. And that

556
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 4: breaks my heart because I feel like the work that

557
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 4: parents like me have done to create an accepting and loving,

558
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 4: an affirming world is completely being the part.

559
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you took all these stuffs forward just to

560
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: get pushed all the way back.

561
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I mean from a legislative standpoint. Even for me,

562
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 4: it's not safe. You know, the death threats get really

563
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 4: out of hand sometimes and you have to add, you know,

564
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 4: the fact I'm black on top of that. So it's

565
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 4: like it's transphobia, homophobia and racism. Oh and and ablesm Yeah,

566
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 4: because they do attack my disability to so I sometimes

567
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 4: I have to like step back because they do get

568
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 4: really scary, and then I pop, we've been docks like

569
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: it was. It was dangerous for a while, And how

570
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 4: is it now? Currently? It's relatively okay. But we also

571
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 4: haven't gone back into session yet and I haven't reintroduced

572
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 4: my bill for protections for gender firming care.

573
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: Wow. Oh that's a lot.

574
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just learned a little bit. You know. I'm like,

575
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 4: as long as I can keep my kids safe, and

576
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 4: I'm pretty tough. I look adorable, but now I know

577
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 4: I'm really a Yeah.

578
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 2: Now, when did you first notice that your daughter Trinity

579
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 2: was expressing that she identified differently to her assigned gender by.

580
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: The time trend was three, Yeah, three years old.

581
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: I thought that was eye opening.

582
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't know what was gone. Trim was so

583
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 4: both Trent and Lucy and my order too, are seventeen

584
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 4: months apart. When Trinity started preschool, they she had a

585
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 4: speech delay, so they kind of they would do this

586
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 4: routine of they would ask her name, they would ask

587
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 4: how old she was, and then they would ask if

588
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 4: she was a boy or a girl, and she would

589
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 4: do the first two, but then she would say girl

590
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 4: for every like every single time. So they would send

591
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 4: me home like a letter, and you know things like

592
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 4: can you work on your you know, work with your

593
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 4: child to understand the differences, And I'm like, I'm trying,

594
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 4: and I'm at home. Toys were toys, clothes were closed

595
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 4: like it like whatever was a kid right right? And

596
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 4: like so I couldn't figure out actually what was going on.

597
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 4: Trim began withdrawing very quickly mm hmm and wasn't responding.

598
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 4: She was a thumbsucker for a while, so she would

599
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 4: just keep her thumb in her mouth. And she also

600
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 4: developed anxiety induced pika, so she was like eating her clothes,

601
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 4: destroying like anything she could put her that wasn't food.

602
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 4: And I just didn't understand what was happening to my

603
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 4: child at all. And so within I would say, maybe

604
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 4: two three months after they kept trying to work with

605
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 4: her she just stopped participating in life almost, and I'm thinking,

606
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 4: this is a three year old, what on earth could

607
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 4: be so terrible? And because she had an IEP, the

608
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 4: school psychologist would do the I guess. The teacher was

609
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 4: kind of like, can we look at the behavioral aspects

610
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 4: and emotional aspect of what's happening with this child? And

611
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 4: at three years old, the school psychologist had her at

612
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 4: the ninety eighth percentile for clinical depression. And I'm like,

613
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 4: she's free.

614
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: What do you ad guess about?

615
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 4: What is? Are you not eating enough? Plano is like

616
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 4: what's going on?

617
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: You know?

618
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 2: One thing when I was reading and doing researching your story,

619
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god, Like some people

620
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 2: may think this is so like minew but she was

621
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: having nightmares that her voice was gonna sound like very

622
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 2: white yes, And I was like, yo, that would have

623
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: freaked me out too.

624
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 4: I mean, I was kind of like I just didn't

625
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 4: know what was what was happening? And how did she

626
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 4: know about Barry White eight thirty? Well, grandma, grandmam. She

627
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 4: also knew Luther vandraw too, right, you better know those people, right, Because.

628
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: I'm like Arry White, I was like, oh my god.

629
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 4: Honestly, was like she just saw herself becoming. She was like,

630
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 4: I'm gonna beat like daddy, I'm gonna She was just

631
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 4: not happy, and I was like, I don't know what's

632
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 4: going on, you know. Thankfully I found Laura's playground on Aol.

633
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 4: I always tell people's aol dot com. At the time,

634
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 4: it was the only start. Yeah, I was like I

635
00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 4: had my Space so and and as you know I've shared,

636
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 4: there was only one therapist in the entire state of Delaware,

637
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 4: one MM and she never worked with children, and wow,

638
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 4: she on, you know, and we tried gender neutral clothing

639
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 4: and everything, but pronouns were still the same and so

640
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 4: was like her name, and we weren't seeing any progress.

641
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 4: And at three and a half, she were just she

642
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 4: would One night, I was like talking her in and

643
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 4: she's just like, maybe if I die in my sleep,

644
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 4: I'll wake up a girl. I don't think that's how

645
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 4: that works. And so of course I'm panicking, and you know,

646
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 4: I didn't. I just didn't know what to do. And

647
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 4: it ended up we had this emergency session while she

648
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 4: was at school at preschool, and I was like, I

649
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 4: don't know what else to do. Yeah, and the therapist.

650
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 4: That's when she the question, do you want a happy

651
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 4: little girl or a death little boy? Yeah? Well, I

652
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 4: mean obviously right, no, you know, and that's how we

653
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 4: got to where we are.

654
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: I can only imagine how you feel. But I wondered

655
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: how did the father feel when y'all discovered that at

656
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: the time when Trinity was in the process of transitioning,

657
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: she I think I read some word her she tried

658
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: to cash rate her privates with kitty scissors.

659
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 4: When she right before transition. Yeah, we were alarmed. We

660
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 4: were scared. Yeah, didn't we just you know, for us,

661
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 4: we didn't want our children to ever feel they didn't

662
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 4: have us, right, they didn't. We didn't love them, and

663
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 4: we didn't hear them. And that's why, you know, I

664
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 4: would say, we have to stop listening with our ears

665
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 4: and started listening with her heart, and so you know,

666
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 4: it was a I know some people have gotten mad

667
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 4: at me online when I say I was watching my

668
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 4: child die because some people have actually lost children, and

669
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 4: I recognize that, but I truly believe have we not

670
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 4: just listened and accepted, I wouldn't have her.

671
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially with the suicide rate that's really had months. Yeah,

672
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: transgender children. So yeah, yeah, so when you bothered the

673
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 2: little girl clothes, what was her response?

674
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 4: I actually have a picture I'll have to send to

675
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 4: the day she put that on and did not want

676
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 4: to take it off. She was so excited and we

677
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 4: were by that point we were like, okay, you want

678
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 4: to be Trinity, you know, and she was like yes,

679
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 4: And it was really the first time you had seen

680
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 4: her smile in almost a year. And Trinity was not

681
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 4: it was not hard. It was her middle name.

682
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: And I thought that was even like an ae have

683
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 2: because I'm like, one of the moments, what was the

684
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 2: what are the eyes of her middle name being Trinity? Yeah,

685
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 2: that's a real middle name name. Yeah, I thought that

686
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: was just like oh wow, like you know, God works

687
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 2: some mysterious ways.

688
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. It was already there. You know a

689
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 4: lot of people their middle names like and that's what

690
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 4: we were, like, people go by their middle names all

691
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 4: the time for some people, and so Trinity just made sense.

692
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 4: And she she's been Trinity since.

693
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's so funny you said that, because as

694
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 2: I'm getting to know my father, he always wanted my

695
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: middle name, Tierra to be my first name. So he

696
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: actually caused me by Tierra sometimes so you're Tiera now.

697
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 4: But no, yeah, she's she's she's a cool kid. She's grown.

698
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: She's not a kid anymore.

699
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: But she's really she's a grown woman.

700
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 3: Now.

701
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 4: I know she can stop right now.

702
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: Reason While researching your story, I saw that you face

703
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: a battle with medicaid to cover the puberty blockers needed

704
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: to stop turning these sexual development So can you walk

705
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 2: us through that battle?

706
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: Yeah? So actually around nine was you know, by this

707
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 4: point there was more information and so I kind of

708
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 4: was like, okay, guys, let's do this. We didn't have

709
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 4: an endochronologist to do it at first. The chief endocrinologists

710
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 4: at the time was not necessarily certain about trans kids okay,

711
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 4: and didn't want to actually work with us at first.

712
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 4: And then he went to a conference in Boston with

713
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 4: who we call the father of of pediatric undercarming care,

714
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 4: and that's doctor Speck. And he went to this conference

715
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 4: and he was he said, he himself is like it

716
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 4: changed his entire worldview. So he found us again and

717
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 4: we had to first start with a bone density scam

718
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 4: to get a baseline of her bone density, and then

719
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 4: after that, every six months that child had to go

720
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 4: through blood withdrawals see where her testofswrong locals were. And

721
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 4: by the time she was thirteen, that's when she started

722
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 4: showing signs of puberty. And so then we were like, okay,

723
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 4: let's get these puberty blockers on board. And I was

724
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 4: on Medicaid because I had to quit my job to

725
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 4: homeschool her and my oldest son. A year after she transitioned,

726
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 4: the public school actually denied her access to school unless

727
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 4: she came as a boy. But by that point she

728
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 4: had been living as herself for over a year, and

729
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 4: I was like, well, that's not going to happen, and

730
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 4: so I put my job and we went to poverty

731
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 4: with that decision. But it was a decision I'd make

732
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 4: over and over again. And so I'm on medicaid and

733
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 4: she they denied her, and so I was like, oh okay.

734
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 4: And the intercrenologist he was just kind of like, of

735
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 4: all the people who would fight this, I fail, You're

736
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 4: to one who would fight this. And I was like, yes,

737
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 4: I am, and so I started fight. I appealed and appealed,

738
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 4: and I ended up with a a patient advocate through

739
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 4: Medicaid and just kept appealing. And then but I kept

740
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 4: we kept getting denied. At this point, we put her

741
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 4: on a medication called Sperona lactone, which is also used

742
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 4: to suppress test off, but it's not like strong enough

743
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 4: and she was getting really worried. And we were part

744
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 4: of a UU church at the time, and so one

745
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 4: day I we would do this thing where you could

746
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 4: go up before the congregation you could talk about like successes, triumphs,

747
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 4: or like concerns or things that are worrying you. And

748
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 4: so I it just so happened this particular day was

749
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 4: really packed, like there are a lot of people, and

750
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 4: I just went up and I get I guess you

751
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 4: could say this was my first foray into public speaking.

752
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 4: Was that a true And so I kind of was

753
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 4: just like I shared my fears and like I don't

754
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 4: want to have come so far in affirming her and

755
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 4: lose her because of eurocoy, you know, like I don't

756
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 4: want to do that. I don't want red tape to

757
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 4: be the reason I lose my child. And in the

758
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 4: audience that particular day was my former colleague, presentative Paul

759
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 4: Bombok because that was his district, and he approached me

760
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 4: during fellowship afterwards and was like, I'm a state representative

761
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 4: here in Delaware. I want to help you and your child,

762
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 4: and he gave me his card and from that point forward,

763
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 4: I had did another appeal which was denied, so I

764
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 4: emailed him everything I had and then that's when he

765
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,359
Speaker 4: connected me to Sarah McBride. So that's how I met

766
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 4: Sarah McBride. And then we just started like trying to

767
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 4: figure out what to do. And I ended up going

768
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 4: before the entire medical board for Medicaid and HIMRK and

769
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 4: I train wrote this letter about how happy she would

770
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 4: be to get puberty blockers, and I took it with me.

771
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 4: During all of this, we were also being followed by

772
00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 4: national geographics. Oh wow, Like so these two things were

773
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 4: happening at once.

774
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: I didn't even see that.

775
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, we she has a picture and they did an

776
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 4: issue on gender and she has a two page.

777
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: Oh wow, you gotta send me some pictures.

778
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 4: That's when she was recognized as the girl with the

779
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 4: rainbow hair.

780
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

781
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 4: So we are doing this and I am still fighting.

782
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 4: And I even took the UU church pastor, like the reverend.

783
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 4: He came with me and he's like, I'm gonna ware

784
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 4: my collar. So I either more like, do you really

785
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 4: want to say no with a reverend.

786
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: Here right right.

787
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 4: We pulled out all the stops, and unfortunately they sent

788
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 4: this letter the next day, certifive mail, saying they were

789
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 4: denying her completely. That's what it actually said, because they

790
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 4: don't cover this kind of stuff. And I wanted to

791
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 4: just like, I didn't know how to tell her, so

792
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 4: I didn't because I did something I never thought I

793
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 4: would do. I wrote what is now it has been

794
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 4: deemed the letter, and I still have a template of

795
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 4: this letter for anyone who has wanted to use it,

796
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 4: where I wrote stating that the state of Delaware's denial

797
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 4: and Medicaid and high Marked denial of my child's gender

798
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 4: firming care was in violation of the Affordable Care Act

799
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 4: section fifteen fifty seven, that if we did not get

800
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 4: dis corrected, I would sue a state of Delaware. Wow,

801
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 4: within two days she was approved, I bet they. And

802
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 4: the weird part was the chief medical officer for a

803
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 4: High Marked at the time was like, well, we just

804
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 4: wanted them to go to Chopped Children's Hospital Philadelphia because

805
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 4: they had had an well established gender pediatric gender for

806
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 4: me care clinic for years. And he's like, he said

807
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 4: that my our endochnologists didn't have enough experience. She was

808
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 4: his only patient at the time, and I was like,

809
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 4: it's Delaware. Yeah, one in Delaware is like one thousand

810
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 4: in Phillies, right right, Fine. I'm like, fine, I will

811
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 4: go to CHOP if you need them to confirm my

812
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 4: childish trans if that's what we need to do. And

813
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 4: we got the Chop And the funny part was they

814
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 4: had been following our story, our fight for those eight months,

815
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 4: and so when they met her, they were like, this

816
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 4: child is thirteen years old, transitioned at four. We're pretty sure.

817
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like she knows exactly who she is at this point.

818
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 4: And so we won, and she became Delaware's first transgender

819
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 4: minor to get Medicaid to cover gender firming care.

820
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

821
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 2: And then she also became the first miner to be

822
00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: able to get the gender market change yes, yeah, yeah.

823
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 4: So I helped them reshape their policy to cover other

824
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 4: trans and non binary people and then we did a

825
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 4: YouTube video that went viral, So then we really became viral,

826
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 4: and that's when she got a pr agent. We met

827
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 4: Cross at the time from Post where actually we practiced

828
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 4: the same Buddhism, so kind of her Auntie we we

829
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 4: met so many trans elders, and I really wanted her

830
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 4: to meet these black trans elders. It's so important for

831
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 4: me to have her meet them because we did not

832
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 4: see black trans femininity portrayed ever in great light, and

833
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 4: I wanted Trinity to be that light of a black

834
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 4: family is capable of loving their black trans child.

835
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

836
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: I was reading some articles about how you were just

837
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 2: talking about navigating conversations about trending these transition with your

838
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 2: extended family, and that didn't really go to will.

839
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 4: No, they stopped talking to me for three years.

840
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were saying you had unfit parenting. It was

841
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 2: a mental illness.

842
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 4: But luckily they're all very supportive now again. No, my

843
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 4: you know, my mom's the matriarch, and it was really

844
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 4: really difficult for her. It ended up being my late

845
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 4: stepfather who was like, this is your grandchild. So we

846
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 4: all got to figure it out, you know. And he

847
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 4: was everything. He was everything. He never slipped he I mean,

848
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 4: he came into our lives long after I was married,

849
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 4: so we were full of adults when he came into

850
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 4: our lives and married my mom. And he never wants

851
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 4: he never once doubted and you know, there are certain

852
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 4: parts of the story that a lot of people don't know.

853
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 4: But after we won, after I won that battle, one

854
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 4: of the concessions I had to make was to allow

855
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 4: a caseworker, a social worker, to do home visits for

856
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 4: a year. Why good question, Wow, it was. It was

857
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 4: a concession I was willing to make if it meant

858
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 4: no other family or trans person had to experience the

859
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 4: fight that we did.

860
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 2: What did she wanted to see? Or what did the

861
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: person wanted to see? He kept coming to do wellness

862
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 2: checks and then I would have to leave the room

863
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: and she would ask the risk questions and it was

864
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 2: ultimately like having a case open.

865
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 4: And it was. It was for a year, but we

866
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 4: ended up becoming friends. And she's like, your family is

867
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 4: so wonderful.

868
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 2: I'm bed now my family is wonderful.

869
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 4: But yeah, She's like, there's obviously no abuse here. But

870
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 4: and I recognized that, but it was it's something that

871
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 4: you know, I haven't started sharing until recently because it

872
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 4: was sometimes a little nerve wracking and traumatic, especially as

873
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 4: a low income you know parent, you know, is there

874
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 4: enough food in a fridge?

875
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: Like?

876
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 4: Or is my house clean enough? You know, it was

877
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 4: just a whole bunch of like it was a lot

878
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 4: of stress I didn't need because I loved my child.

879
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 4: But it was something that happened because I fought so

880
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 4: hard because I loved my child.

881
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, how did you navigate when it comes to your

882
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 2: mental health? Like I could just only imagine with that

883
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 2: journey alone, and then you know, having small kids and

884
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 2: you got this case like, oh want you to taking

885
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 2: care of yourself.

886
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 4: I mean I had a therapist anyway, But I don't know.

887
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 4: Anytime anyone asks me how I do half of what

888
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,760
Speaker 4: I do, I'm not really actually sure anymore. I just

889
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 4: I kind of just do it and then I don't

890
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 4: think about it. I mean, I was homeschooling at this point,

891
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 4: I was a stay at home mom.

892
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: I don't know.

893
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 4: I just kind of did what I had to do

894
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:33,760
Speaker 4: because I had to do it. And there's no time

895
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 4: to be sad about that. I was never I never

896
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 4: grieved the loss of you know, Trinity prior to Trinity

897
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 4: being Trinity. That never happened, and I simply was just,

898
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 4: you know, I was like okay. And I know, like

899
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 4: some of your your listeners might go like, oh, the

900
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 4: other child is trans It must have been influenced I

901
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 4: will point out my younger two children had no no

902
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,760
Speaker 4: idea Trinity was trans They had no idea.

903
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 2: When did they When did they find out?

904
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 4: So Hyperion found out when Hyperion came.

905
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 2: Out, Oh wow, at nine, so that at that point,

906
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

907
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 4: So Trinity is twenty one to Hyperion's fourteen. So yeah,

908
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 4: Trum was like, yeah, yeah, because there's an eleven year

909
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 4: age gap between Hyperion and my young Trinity and my youngest.

910
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 4: And he just learned that Trinity was translate last year.

911
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 4: Thank yeah, last year last year. Wow, Trinity's just been

912
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 4: their sister, right.

913
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: I mean for the most part, Trinity has been a

914
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 2: girl his entire life.

915
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:53,439
Speaker 4: So yeah, for thing, Yeah, he's for both of them.

916
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 4: The person right, probably no would have been Lucian. But

917
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 4: when I recently asked him, he's nineteen. It'll be twenty

918
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 4: this year. When I asked him he's he actually realized

919
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 4: he does not remember.

920
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's who she is. She's always been there.

921
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, because she was. He was just turning three when

922
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:20,280
Speaker 4: she had transitioned, so he has no recollection of Trinity

923
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 4: prior to Trinity.

924
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 2: Was he shot.

925
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 4: So he found out what my youngest, Yeah, he found

926
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 4: out on I think it was transgendered Day of this ability,

927
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 4: which is March thirty. First, he was like trady Tramp.

928
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 2: That was like, I know, he was like wait what,

929
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 2: I'm a complete mob blown, right, He's like.

930
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,880
Speaker 4: This whole time, like what she still your sister? And

931
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 4: he's like that, Yeah. Wow, they never knew. They never knew.

932
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 4: So there was no influence on anyone because there was

933
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 4: nothing to influence. But I don't even know if they

934
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 4: realized how famous she was.

935
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 2: Trinity is pretty lit.

936
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 4: But yeah, he's saying he didn't know. They didn't know.

937
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 4: You know. He was especially really teeny, you know, like

938
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 4: when all this went down, and like we got to

939
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 4: meet the former former governor, which was Governor Markel, and

940
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:31,959
Speaker 4: I think Fane my youngest he was maybe nine months old,

941
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 4: ten months old when we met him, and he wanted

942
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,880
Speaker 4: to like recognize Trinity. And that was a wild day too,

943
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 4: you know because I had to also leave for a

944
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 4: flight to Scotland that same day, so I was like,

945
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 4: can we like make this. I gotta get on a plane,

946
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 4: right right. So yeah, so yeah they didn't. They had

947
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 4: no clue.

948
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: Now we're almost finished. But another thing that I loved

949
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: about your story is about how y'all shared your story

950
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 2: in a book that tore our rope. But I also

951
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: saw that it was banned in several places. So how

952
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 2: do you feel about the idea of books, especially those

953
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 2: that share diverse verses being banned, diverse voices being banned

954
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 2: or restricted, and what message do you think it sends

955
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 2: to the next generation.

956
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 4: Banning books of lived experiences is a way for people

957
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 4: to try to make people disappear, and it won't happen.

958
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 4: There will always be people sharing their stories. Again, I'm

959
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 4: going to go back to plamboyants. There are some people

960
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 4: I learned about I had never heard of, and it's

961
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 4: because their stories were literally hidden as queer black people

962
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 4: in the Harlem Renaissance. And so when we banned stories,

963
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 4: we are telling generations that their story shouldn't exist. It

964
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 4: was an honor to have over book, Like we were like,

965
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 4: oh my goodness, I know y'all made it.

966
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:00,439
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know, but ban.

967
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 4: It harder because that means more royalty. So I was like, yes, translation,

968
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 4: but at the same time, I was kind of like,

969
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 4: you can't ban truth. And it was so funny seeing

970
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 4: Reddit stories, like Reddit posts on this particular thing because

971
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 4: some people there, I guess there was a review someone

972
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 4: gave and they were like, this is a very great

973
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 4: story of fiction. And then I guess a friend or

974
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 4: a fan was like, no, I've met these people. They

975
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 4: are real because there's also this confusion of their being.

976
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 4: She's black, she's trans, and she's on alt to them

977
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 4: spectrum and those intersections being very rare to see not

978
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 4: only written but written in such a positive way the

979
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 4: way we wrote it. You know, again, I've never had issues.

980
00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 4: I've never grieved. I've never been upset about the different

981
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 4: intersections that my children have. I don't have issues with

982
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 4: them being I have three of my four children on

983
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 4: the autism spectrum. Okay, you know right, and so that's

984
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 4: never ever been an issue for me. And so you know,

985
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 4: I just I love that I had a lot of

986
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 4: say with my book. I got to determine. I got

987
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 4: to tell them I wanted the illustrator to be a

988
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 4: trans person of color, and they were That was very

989
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 4: important to me. I got to like pick who the

990
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 4: voice for the audiobook was. I knew it wanted to

991
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 4: be a black woman because it wouldn't make any sense

992
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 4: for me as a black person to be voiced by

993
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 4: a white person.

994
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, that's crazy.

995
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 4: And you know it was just very important. And you

996
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 4: see a lot of themes even at that time, we

997
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 4: used them pronouns for hype prior to us really being

998
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 4: told from Hype to use them pronouns like specifically speaking.

999
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 4: And you know, thing is so he's a cute ptuty

1000
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 4: in the book, he's so a cute putuity. But you know, my,

1001
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 4: when I describe my family now, like if I the

1002
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 4: message I always want to say is like one, we

1003
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 4: do not get to have expectations on who our children

1004
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 4: will be and who they will love. That is that

1005
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 4: is not what we should be doing as parents. We

1006
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 4: are here to guide them. I don't raise my children.

1007
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 4: I love and uplift my children. And it took a

1008
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 4: lot for me to get to this place as a

1009
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 4: parent as a mother, and my children are thriving because

1010
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 4: of it. And I'm queer, I'm non binary, and I

1011
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 4: have two trans kids, a gay son, and then my

1012
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 4: baby boy is a leo and that right there about

1013
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 4: him for sure.

1014
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you looking back, because I can just only

1015
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 2: imagine a lot of things that you've been through that

1016
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 2: you haven't shared publicly. Do you think everything that you

1017
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: have been through leading up to now help prepare you

1018
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 2: to raise Trinity?

1019
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1020
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 4: There are a lot of people who who got me

1021
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 4: there well too, in particular my grandfather and my great grandmother.

1022
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1023
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 4: They you know, they taught me the value of respecting

1024
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 4: people and seeing people. And I've always been someone who

1025
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 4: I don't want to judge you unless you give me

1026
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 4: a reason.

1027
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1028
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 4: I knew that I would not lift the hand in

1029
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 4: my children. I knew I wouldn't yell at my children,

1030
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 4: and I actually don't. We talk about it all the time.

1031
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 4: Actually we laugh about that. I just don't yell.

1032
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 2: Actually, you have a lot of patience.

1033
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't yet. I try very hard. I mean,

1034
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 4: if I'm calling for you, I'm yelling. But when it

1035
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 4: comes to my rage levels are very, very very low.

1036
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 4: It takes now to you hurt my children. I'm an

1037
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 4: entirely different human being. But I don't. I don't. I

1038
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 4: knew that my goal was to ensure that my children

1039
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 4: knew I had their back, but they could be secure

1040
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 4: without me. And you know, just I know we're going

1041
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 4: to go soon. But this is just a proof that

1042
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 4: I managed to do it, and I still don't know

1043
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,600
Speaker 4: what I've done. But my oldest son last year was

1044
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 4: for the year before he was at Westchester University for

1045
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 4: his first year of college for a far different major

1046
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 4: than he's doing that, and he was in an early

1047
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 4: childhood development class and they were talking about the three

1048
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 4: attachment styles for parenting. There's avoidant attachment, there's an anxious attachment,

1049
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 4: and then the one you want to try to achieve,

1050
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:55,360
Speaker 4: the secure attachment. And his professor was explaining each attachment

1051
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 4: style with case studies that are peer in peer review articles,

1052
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 4: and when she got to this cure attachment, he was

1053
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 4: looking at the case study and he thought it was familiar.

1054
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 4: And so then at the end, you know, she was

1055
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 4: asking if any of the students had questions, and he

1056
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 4: raised his hand and asked her if the case study

1057
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 4: used for secure attachment style was based off of a

1058
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 4: Delaware family. He was like, yes, we've been using it

1059
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 4: for several years now for secure attachment style. And he's like,

1060
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 4: just throwing it out, is the name of the mother

1061
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 4: represented in this? And she's like I believe so yes,

1062
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 4: And she's like why He's like, that's my mom. Wow.

1063
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 4: He told me this as I was bringing him home

1064
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 4: for the weekend, and I'm just like, why are you sure?

1065
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 4: And she like Afterwards they talked, and then the next

1066
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 4: day they were given a quit like a survey to

1067
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 4: see what attachment style they fit under with their family,

1068
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 4: and he was only want to get one hundred percent secure.

1069
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 4: And we just chuckle about this because I'm like, one,

1070
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 4: I didn't know it was a case study at this point,

1071
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:14,959
Speaker 4: but two, I never necessarily see myself as a great mom.

1072
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:20,080
Speaker 4: I think I do the best I can, but obviously

1073
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 4: I've done something right, and I do mama as tired

1074
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 4: as I am. Right, you know, I take what I

1075
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 4: know and then I learned from them and I get

1076
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 4: to turn that into policy. But I also get to

1077
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 4: be a therapist for at risk youth too, and I

1078
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 4: help them find their purpose. And that's kind of why

1079
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 4: I do everything.

1080
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 2: Out to Yeah, yeah, what are your hosts for transgender

1081
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 2: youth growing up in today's world.

1082
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 4: That they recognize they are far worthy and far loved

1083
01:05:56,920 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 4: than they even know. Yeah, and to cleaner room, cleaner

1084
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 4: rooms please please clean room trend no actually training rooms

1085
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:07,439
Speaker 4: very clean?

1086
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. Trinity expressed at just four years

1087
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 2: old that she was a girl. Now she's in her

1088
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 2: early twenties. So what message do you hope your story

1089
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 2: sends to young people, especially those who may be questioning

1090
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 2: their own identities.

1091
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 4: You know who you are? Yeah, there will always be

1092
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 4: someone there who will listen with their heart. And if

1093
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 4: you have a family, that can't be the ones I'm

1094
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 4: your mom now.

1095
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1096
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of babies.

1097
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, furry babies to y'all. Furry babies too.

1098
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, one's whimpering because he's like, I dropped my food

1099
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 4: outside my cree.

1100
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 2: And last, but not least, how can we shift the

1101
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: conversation to help others see transgender youth for who they are,

1102
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 2: beyond misconceptions.

1103
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 4: Talk to them and talk to the people who love them.

1104
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 4: Because when you hurt or say something hurtful about a

1105
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 4: trans youth, you are ultimately hurting your future. You were

1106
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 4: hurting someone in your life where you may find out

1107
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 4: it's trands that you've come to really care about. Yeah.

1108
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,439
Speaker 4: The video that went viral for us was called meet

1109
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 4: my Child. I want people to meet Trinity. I want

1110
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 4: people to meet me. I am a mom in the

1111
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 4: end of the day, regardless of her being trans. She's

1112
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 4: my child. Yeah, And when you say the things you say,

1113
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 4: you are hurting me too and those who love her.

1114
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I am so happy that we were

1115
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 2: able to make this happen. This was definitely worth the way.

1116
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: So I really appreciate you for coming on to the

1117
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 2: show and just starting the new A're off with love

1118
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 2: like I feel. Really, I'm really thankful for our conversation.

1119
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 4: Same and I hope you continue to build such a

1120
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 4: wonderful relationship with your dad and you know it is

1121
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 4: it changes the world when we do everything with love first.

1122
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, even though he a wow boy man.

1123
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, just spram with the water.

1124
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 2: He needs more than water, shall he need alcohol?

1125
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 4: Calm down?

1126
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 2: Count hell, he needs everything because that niggas Wow.

1127
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 4: I'm sure my kids feel the same about me most days,

1128
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 4: like my mom dressed up as a mouse. I'm going

1129
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:24,120
Speaker 4: to this.

1130
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 2: Thing right right well to the listeners. If you have

1131
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: any questions, please make sure to email me at hello

1132
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:32,320
Speaker 2: at the PSG podcast dot com. And if you are

1133
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 2: interested in supporting our guest book, please make sure to

1134
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 2: hit me up and I will send you the direct

1135
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 2: link so we can support them and get it unbanned.

1136
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 2: Can you unband a book. Is that possible. I know,

1137
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 2: it's a process, right.

1138
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 4: It would have to be the state, okay, okay, yeah,

1139
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 4: and unfortunately, book fans are quite a thing. You can

1140
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 4: put laws in that will keep book fans from happy.

1141
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 4: We are working on that here nowhere, so.

1142
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:59,679
Speaker 2: Okay, well just email me and I see y'all a link.

1143
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 2: Thank you to my guest, Thank you so much. It

1144
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 2: was such a pleasure. Thank you, thank you, thank you,

1145
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 2: thank you, and until next time, everyone Later heys. The

1146
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 2: Professional Homegirl podcast is a production of the Black Effect

1147
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 2: podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1148
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1149
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,640
Speaker 2: Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show, and you

1150
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 2: can connect with me on social media at the PHG

1151
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 2: podcast