WEBVTT - All In Your Head

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<v Speaker 1>Yah. Welcome to the Hidden Gin, a production of I

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<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkey. Before

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<v Speaker 1>we begin this week, a gentle word of warning. There

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<v Speaker 1>are references to sexual assault in this episode, so please

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<v Speaker 1>proceed with care. Decades ago, I knew a family that

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<v Speaker 1>lived in my mother's town that had three young daughters.

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<v Speaker 1>The lady of the house was a close friend of

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<v Speaker 1>my mother's, and so, in other words, she was kind

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<v Speaker 1>of an auntie to us, and every so often Auntie

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<v Speaker 1>would drop bif for a visit, bringing boxes of homemade

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<v Speaker 1>sweets or a platter of rice or some little treat

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<v Speaker 1>to share over a cup of hot gi and oftentimes

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<v Speaker 1>whatever her daughters would come with her. The eldest was

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<v Speaker 1>maybe around twenty and the youngest was an early teen.

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<v Speaker 1>For years, though I never met the third daughter, the

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<v Speaker 1>middle one. Once in a while Auntie would mention her name,

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<v Speaker 1>she would ask my mother for prayers, say something in

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<v Speaker 1>passing about her doing better or worse. One day, after

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<v Speaker 1>she left, my mother sat shaking her head, looking deeply

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<v Speaker 1>sad about whatever Auntie had shared with her, and I asked,

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<v Speaker 1>what's wrong. My mother took a deep sigh and responded

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<v Speaker 1>she thinks her daughter has a gin. That's when I

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<v Speaker 1>finally learned that the third daughter, the one I never saw,

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<v Speaker 1>had an entire host of what her parents understood to

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<v Speaker 1>be symptoms of either the evil Eye or gin possession,

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<v Speaker 1>or a combination of the two. But my mother explained

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<v Speaker 1>to me it was just as possible that the daughter

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<v Speaker 1>had mental health or medical issues if she did, though,

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<v Speaker 1>Auntie wasn't prepared to accept it and seek professional advice. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>she saw it help elsewhere, soliciting prayers and charms from

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<v Speaker 1>spiritual healers, hoping something would drive away the demons that

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<v Speaker 1>caused a young girl to lash out, that kept her

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<v Speaker 1>tongue tied and frustrated, that kept her afflicted, suffering, and

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<v Speaker 1>isolated from the rest of the world. But nothing worked.

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<v Speaker 1>My mother tried to counsel her to take the girl

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<v Speaker 1>to see a doctor, or a psychologist, or even a psychiatrist,

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<v Speaker 1>but the advice didn't land. Auntie was convinced that someone

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<v Speaker 1>had put a curse on her daughter, a curse for

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<v Speaker 1>a gin to torment her. At some point, maybe a

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<v Speaker 1>few years after I first got to know Aunty, I

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<v Speaker 1>finally met that third daughter. She was sweet and kind,

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<v Speaker 1>shy and mostly quiet, But though when she did speak,

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<v Speaker 1>her words were halting and repetitive. I didn't get a

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<v Speaker 1>sense that she was haunted or tormented by anything. But

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<v Speaker 1>one thing was painfully clear to me and to anyone

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<v Speaker 1>else who might be familiar with the condition. The young

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<v Speaker 1>woman was tistic. So what happens when developmental or mental

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<v Speaker 1>health issues, physical disabilities, disease, chronic illness, emotional disregulation, or

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<v Speaker 1>any one of hundreds of physiological and psychological conditions that

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<v Speaker 1>human beings experience is understood through the lens of the supernatural.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you know whether you're suffering from a treatable

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<v Speaker 1>condition or you've been struck by a gin? Is the

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<v Speaker 1>affliction in the psyche or in the soul? While the

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<v Speaker 1>lines have been blurred throughout history, and today we'll explore

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<v Speaker 1>what it looks like over the centuries when medicine, psychology,

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<v Speaker 1>and the supernatural cross paths. I'm Robbia Audrey, and I'll

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<v Speaker 1>be your guide into the ancient world of the hidden gin.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome stars are the celestial doubles of human beings. Jin

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<v Speaker 1>milliars are their underground doubles, and the leaves of the

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<v Speaker 1>trees of paradise are their doubles in paradise. When human

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<v Speaker 1>beings are sick, the jin double is sick with the

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<v Speaker 1>same sickness. His star pales, and the leaf of the

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<v Speaker 1>tree of Paradise yellows and curls. At the hour of death,

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<v Speaker 1>the jin dies first, the star falls from the sky

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<v Speaker 1>as a shooting star, and the leaf detaches from the

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<v Speaker 1>Tree of Paradise. That is from a collection of cosmology

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<v Speaker 1>collected in Marrakesh, Morocco that documented, among other things, the

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<v Speaker 1>belief that the human condition exists in several planes at once,

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<v Speaker 1>and whatever it goes through, whatever it experiences, is experienced

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<v Speaker 1>by corresponding entities linked intimately to each of us. For

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<v Speaker 1>every person a leaf on the tree of Paradise, a

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<v Speaker 1>star in the heavens, and a gin in the underworld.

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<v Speaker 1>The gin will live, get sick, and die with us.

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<v Speaker 1>But what about the gin who actually make us sick?

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<v Speaker 1>According to a book titled The Gin and Human Sickness,

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<v Speaker 1>an entire host of conditions can and are attributed to Gin,

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<v Speaker 1>including depression, anxiety, epilepsy, personality disorders, psychiatric breaks with reality. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the movements of the Gin in and upon the human

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<v Speaker 1>body can't really be tracked. Because the dinner created as

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<v Speaker 1>smokeless fire and energy that cannot be contained, they're able

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<v Speaker 1>to move with our bloodstream itself. They say. There are

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<v Speaker 1>two ways in which gin physically afflict human beings. They

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<v Speaker 1>can either strike a person or possess a person. Striking

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<v Speaker 1>a person could mean sudden paralysis or blindness, or any

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<v Speaker 1>other physical condition that just appears out of nowhere, or

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<v Speaker 1>even a more literal strike, like suddenly you lost all

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<v Speaker 1>your hearing in one ear. Maybe it was because the

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<v Speaker 1>gin slapped you on that side of the head. But

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<v Speaker 1>you must be asking yourself why would any gin be

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<v Speaker 1>bothered enough to strike a person. More often than not,

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<v Speaker 1>it's because the gin was offended or disrespected, knowingly or unknowingly.

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<v Speaker 1>Urinating the wrong spot, let's say, in a shadowy corner

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<v Speaker 1>a gin called home could incurage. Wrath or wearing the

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<v Speaker 1>wrong color and the wrong place the wrong time might

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<v Speaker 1>anger a gin, and you might really peeve one off

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<v Speaker 1>if you disrespect it by rejecting the existence of gin altogether. Sometimes, though,

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<v Speaker 1>the affliction is actually a way to connect a gin

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<v Speaker 1>to a person, a means of establishing first contact, you

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<v Speaker 1>could say, and shaking that contact isn't always easy, but

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<v Speaker 1>for thousands of years there have been healers and magicians

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<v Speaker 1>to help take care of such bothersome attachments. It seems

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<v Speaker 1>that the idea that illness stems from and therefore requires

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<v Speaker 1>spiritual or supernatural interventions, is as old as history itself.

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<v Speaker 1>Unto the side of the water, or have drawn nigh,

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<v Speaker 1>casting a woeful fever upon his body. A bane of

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<v Speaker 1>evil had settled on his body, and evil disease on

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<v Speaker 1>his body. They have cast an evil plague had settled

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<v Speaker 1>on his body, Evil venom on his body. They have

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<v Speaker 1>cast an evil curse had settled on his body. Evil

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<v Speaker 1>and sin on his body. They have cast venom and

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<v Speaker 1>wickedness have settled upon him. This priestly Assyrian chant, as

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<v Speaker 1>thousands of years old, a litany of the many ways

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<v Speaker 1>evil spirits attacked some poor soul. And the doctors of

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<v Speaker 1>ancient times were in fact the healers and the magicians,

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<v Speaker 1>and the priests, sometimes indistinguishable between any of them. They

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<v Speaker 1>were the ones who were called upon to help heal

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<v Speaker 1>the sick. With little space between medicine, religion, and magic,

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<v Speaker 1>these healer magicians were regarded by society as honored warriors

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<v Speaker 1>waging war against un seen forces on the battlefield of

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<v Speaker 1>the human body. They wielded an array of tools. Each

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<v Speaker 1>instrument specialized to deal with whatever demon was causing the sickness,

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<v Speaker 1>and also used chance, spells and rituals to drive away

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<v Speaker 1>the forces of illness. But how did they know which

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<v Speaker 1>demon it was and what tools to use, Well, it's

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<v Speaker 1>pretty simple. It all depended on which part of the

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<v Speaker 1>body was ailing. The symptoms of whatever ailment a person

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<v Speaker 1>was struck with themselves gave rise to the diagnosis. For example,

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<v Speaker 1>a painful throat pointed to Utuku, the demon jin, who

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<v Speaker 1>well lived to attack human throats fevers. You're dealing with

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<v Speaker 1>a suku skin disease. The demon Rabisu was the culprit.

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<v Speaker 1>The ancient Greeks likewise, believed both that evil spirits could

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<v Speaker 1>cause every matter of sickness, but also that there were

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<v Speaker 1>gods you could turn to for healing, so it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of balanced it out. And sometimes times the evil spirits

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<v Speaker 1>themselves began to be worshiped as gods as a way

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<v Speaker 1>to appease them through rituals of praise and even blood sacrifice.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, there's the demigod al Maharik. He was a fierce,

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<v Speaker 1>angry and ancient pre Islamic god that was worshiped in

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<v Speaker 1>parts of the Middle East. His name means the one

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<v Speaker 1>who burns, and he lords over a crimson throne read

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<v Speaker 1>as flames. Al Moharak was known to be a god

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<v Speaker 1>of the underworld, and much like his Babylonian counterpart, the

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<v Speaker 1>god Nergill, he was a deity of disease, but al

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<v Speaker 1>Moharak didn't just attack one person. His wrath was more efficient.

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<v Speaker 1>You could say Al Moharak sent plagues to sickened entire regions,

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<v Speaker 1>and later his legend morphed into him being the Jin

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<v Speaker 1>of plagues and pestilence. According to Ottoman mystics, the Jin

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<v Speaker 1>afflicted humans with the plague and other epidemics by piercing

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<v Speaker 1>them with the tip of a disease ridden spear or arrow.

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<v Speaker 1>Treatises written in the fifteenth and sixteenth century also share

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<v Speaker 1>that sometimes these plagues are spread by the direct command

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<v Speaker 1>of Satan himself, who directs his legions of Gin to

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<v Speaker 1>go rampaging against hapless humans. But according to the same treatises,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a way to protect yourself if the plague

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<v Speaker 1>is a war on man said by Satan, man can

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<v Speaker 1>fight back by invoking a powerful name of God against

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<v Speaker 1>the disease. A famous Turkish historian scholar by the name

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<v Speaker 1>of Tasco Prosiati prescribed the following for protection against the

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<v Speaker 1>plague carrying gin. Repeat Albaki, a name of God that

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<v Speaker 1>means the everlasting a hundred and thirty six times a day,

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<v Speaker 1>and no such jin could touch you. Tesco Prosati wrote

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<v Speaker 1>about a story in which a group of students living

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<v Speaker 1>in Kaskar, a city on the Silk Road bordering Afghanistan,

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<v Speaker 1>saw frightening shadows on a wall. The shadows were of

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<v Speaker 1>figures carrying arrows, but was more frightening was that there

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<v Speaker 1>was nothing in the room to actually cast the shadows,

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<v Speaker 1>which could only mean one thing. The figures were gin

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<v Speaker 1>and the tips of the arrows they carried were poisoned

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<v Speaker 1>with plague. The students were told to write down the

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<v Speaker 1>powerful names of God on pieces of paper as a

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<v Speaker 1>talisman to protect themselves. According to the story, those who

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<v Speaker 1>followed instructions were saved and those who didn't perished. Hundreds

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<v Speaker 1>of similar prayerful invocations are prescribed throughout Islamic Plague treatises

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<v Speaker 1>from that time, and likewise Christian and Jewish writings reflect

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<v Speaker 1>the same ideas and even language. Take for example, Psalm nine,

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<v Speaker 1>a prayer that reads, you who live in the shelter

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<v Speaker 1>of the Most High, who abide in the shadow of

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<v Speaker 1>the Almighty, will say to the Lord, my refuge and

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<v Speaker 1>my fortress, my God, and whom I trust. For he

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<v Speaker 1>will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and

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<v Speaker 1>from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his opinions,

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<v Speaker 1>and under his wings you will find refuge. His faithfulness

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<v Speaker 1>is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the

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<v Speaker 1>terror of night, or the arrow that flies by day,

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<v Speaker 1>or the pestilence that stalks and darkness, or the destruction

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<v Speaker 1>that wastes at noonday. While Muslims, Christians, and Jews have

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<v Speaker 1>always had much in common to discuss and interfect gatherings,

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<v Speaker 1>having a shared belief in dark, evil forces that shoot

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<v Speaker 1>arrows of disease probably comes as a surprise to many

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<v Speaker 1>of us on the subject of physical ailments. If there's

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<v Speaker 1>every convenient time to blame a gin, it's when the

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<v Speaker 1>issue is well a deeply personal one. In two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and eighteen, a medical journal published a piece by a

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<v Speaker 1>doctor from the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the

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<v Speaker 1>Health Medical Center in Dubai entitled quote Infertility Caused by Gin.

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<v Speaker 1>This same doctor, Dr Amira Bajirova, had previously written an

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<v Speaker 1>article for the Archives of Sexual Reproductive and Health titled

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<v Speaker 1>quote infertility caused by decreased oxygen utilization and GIN. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I was as surprised as you define such pieces in

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<v Speaker 1>recent medical journals, But such is the power of spiritual belief.

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<v Speaker 1>Now that thesis of these pieces is that evil gin

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<v Speaker 1>take no greater pleasure than they do in wrecking marriages

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<v Speaker 1>through all kinds of means, like causing and medie between

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<v Speaker 1>spouses over finances, disputes over family issues, lessening their attraction

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<v Speaker 1>for each other, or just making them irritable and hateful

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<v Speaker 1>to each other. But if none of that works, they

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<v Speaker 1>can take more direct action to like causing sexual disorders, miscarriages, impotence,

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<v Speaker 1>premature ejaculation, early menopause, and yes, infertility. Sometimes the gin

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<v Speaker 1>might do it on their own, but more often than

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<v Speaker 1>not they cause these problems because someone, a rival or enemy,

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<v Speaker 1>has summoned them with black magic to destroy the happy

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<v Speaker 1>life of a couple that they want to harm. The

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<v Speaker 1>articles come complete with very official looking charts and lists

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<v Speaker 1>dozens of sexual and reproductive disorders that might be inflicted

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<v Speaker 1>by the gin or could be actual symptoms of being

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<v Speaker 1>possessed by one. And there are a number of very

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<v Speaker 1>interesting cases presented in these pieces, like the one in

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<v Speaker 1>which a patient suffering from polycystic ovaries failed to follow

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<v Speaker 1>the doctor's instructions and then disappeared for a couple of years.

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<v Speaker 1>She then returned to the doctor after a frightening experience.

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<v Speaker 1>She was standing in front of a mirror one night

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<v Speaker 1>applying lipstick when suddenly a bright red patch appeared in

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<v Speaker 1>her clothing below her pelvis. She was bleeding heavily, and

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.400
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't clear whether it was menstrual blood or not.

0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Whatever it was, it shocked her into returning for medical treatment.

0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 1>The case summary in the article concludes, and a quote

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.480
<v Speaker 1>mirror attracts the gin. The gin is circulating in the body,

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 1>settles in the womb and opens the uterine vessels, causing

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:15.920
<v Speaker 1>abnormal bleeding. The doctor also had a theory behind male

0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 1>impotence and other sexual dysfunction. This happens apparently when a

0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.240
<v Speaker 1>female gin. Well, the doctor conceded that maybe a male

0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.240
<v Speaker 1>gin too was sexually attracted to a human male and

0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 1>messed with his system so he could neither find satisfaction

0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 1>or give satisfaction to another human partner. Talk about being

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.680
<v Speaker 1>possessive anyhow. If that caught your ear, don't worry. We'll

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.480
<v Speaker 1>be getting into the phenomena of human gen relationships in

0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:47.240
<v Speaker 1>a later episode. But spoiler alert, the relationships aren't always voluntary.

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Getting back to the connection between evil forces and sexual

0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.520
<v Speaker 1>and reproductive issues, we have to keep this in mind.

0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.320
<v Speaker 1>One effective way to lessen the stigma of these conditions

0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 1>and lesson the personal blame some might ascribe themselves, maybe

0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 1>to find an external cause when it's black magic, the

0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.320
<v Speaker 1>evil eye, or a wicked gin. It affords a bit

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.080
<v Speaker 1>of protection to those who might otherwise be mistreated by

0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.960
<v Speaker 1>their partners or families or society for failing to fulfill

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.960
<v Speaker 1>their obligation to go forth and multiply. It's ironic, actually,

0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>that such proscriptions might just be a compassionate way of

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.560
<v Speaker 1>letting people off the hook, including medical and health professionals.

0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.400
<v Speaker 1>All faults and deficiencies get attributed to the gin, freeing

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.880
<v Speaker 1>people of accountability, blame and shame. At the same time, though,

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.480
<v Speaker 1>it also keeps alive a thriving source of income for

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.360
<v Speaker 1>the people and institutions who claim to be able to

0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.040
<v Speaker 1>heal the things that science cannot, and it opens the

0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.840
<v Speaker 1>doors for criminals and predators who prey on the vulnerable.

0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.760
<v Speaker 1>A two thousand twelve article in the Pakistani newspaper Dawn

0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 1>reported the arrest of a faith healer promising to free

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 1>a young girl of gin, but instead the girl's mother

0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.560
<v Speaker 1>caught the man in the act of raping her daughter.

0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Thankfully he was arrested, but catching such culprits isn't always

0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.960
<v Speaker 1>so cut and dry in South Asia, and maybe it

0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.000
<v Speaker 1>happens in other parts of the world, but at least

0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.040
<v Speaker 1>I can personally vouch for this region. While there are

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.399
<v Speaker 1>doctors and clinics, of course, that can treat infertility, what

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.840
<v Speaker 1>happens when a wife unable to produce any children gets

0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:32.000
<v Speaker 1>repeatedly checked out and the medical professionals say she's just fine. Well,

0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.840
<v Speaker 1>thanks to misologyny and the patriarchy getting the way of

0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 1>good judgment. Oftentimes no one thinks to check the husband's

0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.679
<v Speaker 1>reproductive health, because well, that would be unthinkable. So the

0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:47.359
<v Speaker 1>only remaining explanation then is supernatural, a curse that woman

0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.719
<v Speaker 1>is suffering from, or maybe a gin. And so there

0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.160
<v Speaker 1>have been countless stories of women, once humiliated for being

0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.640
<v Speaker 1>barren and unable to conceive, miraculously becoming pregnant after being

0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.320
<v Speaker 1>left alone for treatment with some fraudulent holy man who

0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.879
<v Speaker 1>claimed that he could drive out the gin preventing conception.

0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:10.399
<v Speaker 1>Imagine then the situation these women face finally pregnant to

0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.000
<v Speaker 1>the great joy of their families, but not through some

0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:17.320
<v Speaker 1>mysterious spiritual healing. Instead, because they're the victims of sexual

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.520
<v Speaker 1>assault by these fake religious healers, these women are left

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.960
<v Speaker 1>to hold this terrible secret, a secret they undoubtedly share

0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.359
<v Speaker 1>with dozens of other victims, the secret that more often

0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 1>than not, you don't have to fear the supernatural, because

0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:45.360
<v Speaker 1>the worst monsters are usually human. A two thou five

0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.600
<v Speaker 1>article in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine

0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 1>presented the case of a twenty five year old Iraqi

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.000
<v Speaker 1>woman living in the UK with no history of any

0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:57.080
<v Speaker 1>psychological or psychiatric disorders, who began to slowly but surely

0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.760
<v Speaker 1>withdraw from life. Over time, you stopped being in the

0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.960
<v Speaker 1>company of other people, stopped communicating and eventually even stopped eating.

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 1>Doctors diagnosed with severe depression and subjected her to electroshock therapy,

0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 1>which did nothing for the patient but further confirmed her

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.440
<v Speaker 1>family suspicion that they were dealing with something else here.

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.040
<v Speaker 1>They secretly believe that their daughter was under the influence

0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.960
<v Speaker 1>or possessed by a jin. Without telling the medical professionals involved,

0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 1>They ferried the young woman off to see a faith healer,

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.359
<v Speaker 1>who assured them that he could cure her with prayer

0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.320
<v Speaker 1>and ritual. After all, faith is often the last resort

0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.600
<v Speaker 1>of the desperate. The healer put his patient through a

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 1>few sessions of spiritual therapy, and miraculously, her appetite returned,

0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 1>as did her previous emotional health. She reported that she

0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.240
<v Speaker 1>wasn't sure what had happened to her, that she was

0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.240
<v Speaker 1>fully aware of her condition, but she just couldn't bring

0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.040
<v Speaker 1>herself to do anything to come out of it, even

0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.880
<v Speaker 1>though of her own admission, she wasn't particularly feeling sad

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.439
<v Speaker 1>or depressed about anything at all. According to the article,

0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.800
<v Speaker 1>even five years later, she was still doing fine without

0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.919
<v Speaker 1>any medications or any other treatment since the spiritual healing.

0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.920
<v Speaker 1>But of course, not all such stories have happy endings.

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.240
<v Speaker 1>For some, the spiritual healing itself becomes a private hell.

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.960
<v Speaker 1>People have long both feared madness and been in awe

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.680
<v Speaker 1>of it. The ancient Greeks thought some madness to be sacred,

0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.440
<v Speaker 1>opening divine portals and the power of prophecy. And then

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.959
<v Speaker 1>there's a dark side of madness, the one that's not

0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:47.000
<v Speaker 1>caused by gods or saints, but by demons, or sometimes

0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:50.960
<v Speaker 1>by something in between, like Lyssa, known to the Greeks

0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:55.160
<v Speaker 1>as both the goddess and demon of rage and frenzy.

0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.040
<v Speaker 1>In the Greek tragedy The Madness of Heracles, Heracles, the

0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:03.000
<v Speaker 1>son of Zeus, stands before his father's altar, ready to

0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:09.000
<v Speaker 1>purify himself, when suddenly Lissa strikes him with madness. Heracles

0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.520
<v Speaker 1>spun around, his eyes, rolling in his head, mouth foaming,

0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:17.560
<v Speaker 1>and mounted an imaginary chariot. He bellowed maniacal laughter as

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 1>he drew his bow and took aim at his own children.

0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.199
<v Speaker 1>He didn't know they were his children, though in his

0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.320
<v Speaker 1>madness he believed they were the children of an enemy.

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Heracules terrified children tried to save themselves. One child hid

0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.600
<v Speaker 1>behind his mother, another behind a temple pillar, and the

0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 1>third one under an altar, but it didn't deter Heracles.

0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:43.760
<v Speaker 1>He killed all three of his children and his own

0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.960
<v Speaker 1>wife before finally being struck by a rock that put

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:51.119
<v Speaker 1>him in a deep slumber. Greek mythology is full of

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:56.800
<v Speaker 1>madness caused by demons or curses, leading to murder, suicide, infanticide,

0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:01.879
<v Speaker 1>and other unthinkable acts such evil You see can madness be?

0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:06.159
<v Speaker 1>And the line between madness and evil forces is just

0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.920
<v Speaker 1>as straight. In the Arabian tradition, both predating and after

0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.720
<v Speaker 1>the seventh century, when Islam emerged as a religion in

0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:17.080
<v Speaker 1>the region, a mad person is called much new and

0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.680
<v Speaker 1>madness itself is called janine. Both of these words have

0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:24.560
<v Speaker 1>the same three letter origin as jin, those letters in

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:30.400
<v Speaker 1>the English alphabet being j and and much noon januin jin.

0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.479
<v Speaker 1>They're not only related. Much noon literally means possessed by

0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.680
<v Speaker 1>a jin, whether or not that person is actually possessed.

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.400
<v Speaker 1>So how do the jin drive a person mad? Well,

0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.280
<v Speaker 1>they have a few tricks up their sleeves. First is

0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the insiduous was swassa, the whisperings, am I good enough?

0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Am I pretty enough? Is my husband cheating on me?

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Are my friends talking about me? Did my brother steal

0:22:56.359 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 1>from me? Is that woman following me? Are my children safe?

0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Will my parents die? Those doubts and negative thoughts that

0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.040
<v Speaker 1>you can't get rid of, that continuous, persistent stream of

0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:13.800
<v Speaker 1>anxious questions and insecurities that circulates in your mind constantly.

0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.359
<v Speaker 1>It may well be a jin whispering to you in

0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:21.280
<v Speaker 1>your very own voice. Maybe it's even your caree, that

0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:24.240
<v Speaker 1>constant companion jin that's born with you and for you,

0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:27.680
<v Speaker 1>and dies with you too. The Gin know that if

0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:29.800
<v Speaker 1>they're at it long enough, it can lead people, if

0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:34.680
<v Speaker 1>not to shear madness, then to depression, panic attacks, resentment

0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:39.240
<v Speaker 1>and anger, and even suicidal ideation. And if that doesn't work,

0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 1>they'll try to drive you mad with their music. It's

0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:44.720
<v Speaker 1>not really music, though, it's more of a sound, not

0:23:44.960 --> 0:23:48.840
<v Speaker 1>unlike a siren song, but a bit more creative. It

0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:52.360
<v Speaker 1>can sound like a constant buzzing of flies or bees,

0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.600
<v Speaker 1>or the incessant shirp of a bird. It could be

0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:59.359
<v Speaker 1>the sound of wind or a far off whale, or

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:03.160
<v Speaker 1>never ending murmurs, or maybe the faint beating of drums

0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:06.840
<v Speaker 1>for hours and days, both when you wake and sleep.

0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:10.480
<v Speaker 1>It could just be a sound repeated over and over,

0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:13.600
<v Speaker 1>like it was reported by an ancient poet who described

0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:23.600
<v Speaker 1>it as zizizema, zizimma, zizizimma. Before the advent of modern

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:27.440
<v Speaker 1>psychiatry and psychology, this was all understood to be symptoms

0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:31.400
<v Speaker 1>of external malevolent forces. But even in the modern era,

0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:33.600
<v Speaker 1>it can be hard for many to draw lines between

0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.600
<v Speaker 1>the natural and the supernatural, to know when to take

0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:38.960
<v Speaker 1>a loved one to a psychiatrist and when to take

0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 1>them to a spiritual healer, and in some places there

0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:47.000
<v Speaker 1>are almost no options but to choose the latter. In

0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:49.920
<v Speaker 1>the small town of boya Umer in the heart of Morocco,

0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:54.040
<v Speaker 1>there stands a mausoleum dedicated to a sixteenth century saint.

0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:58.399
<v Speaker 1>The town itself was named after this particular saint was

0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:01.320
<v Speaker 1>known to cure those suffering and what we today understand

0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:05.359
<v Speaker 1>to be psychiatric disorders, but before modern medicine was generally

0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:09.960
<v Speaker 1>considered madness caused by gin, and this mausoleum, a shrine

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.359
<v Speaker 1>for that saint, became a place of hope for the

0:25:12.440 --> 0:25:14.520
<v Speaker 1>loved ones of those who were thought to be touched

0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:19.280
<v Speaker 1>by madness, but a place of despair for the afflicted themselves.

0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Families came from near and far to leave their sick children, siblings,

0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:26.960
<v Speaker 1>elders at the shrine in the hopes that the healers

0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:30.320
<v Speaker 1>working there and the power of the shrine itself would

0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.960
<v Speaker 1>cure their loved ones. Whether the families were driven by

0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:37.600
<v Speaker 1>love or fear, guilt or faith, their patronage brought a

0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:40.760
<v Speaker 1>steady stream of revenue to the shrine, which charged a

0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:43.479
<v Speaker 1>monthly housing fee for their patients and made nearly a

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:47.960
<v Speaker 1>million dollars a year from their services. The healers there

0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:50.800
<v Speaker 1>claimed they could heal through their own power derived from

0:25:50.800 --> 0:25:54.159
<v Speaker 1>the deceased saint himself, that they had power over the

0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:57.760
<v Speaker 1>gin that were either afflicting to patients, or by employing

0:25:57.760 --> 0:26:00.880
<v Speaker 1>the gin that were already in their control to battle

0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:04.879
<v Speaker 1>the ones that were not in their control. People passing

0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:09.080
<v Speaker 1>by would hear howling and screams, sobs and cries for mercy,

0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:11.560
<v Speaker 1>all which was chalked up to the torment of the

0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:15.560
<v Speaker 1>gin who were being exercised from their victims, except that's

0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:18.960
<v Speaker 1>probably not what it was. Not too many years ago,

0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:22.720
<v Speaker 1>reports began emerging of the torture these patients, treated more

0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:27.640
<v Speaker 1>like animals. Faced Human rights activists raised allegations that patients

0:26:27.640 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 1>at the shrine were often shackled and beaten, even starved,

0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:35.359
<v Speaker 1>and that place must be shut down. So serious and

0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:38.760
<v Speaker 1>systematic was the situation that a report was even presented

0:26:39.080 --> 0:26:43.120
<v Speaker 1>to the u N Working Group on arbitrary detention. One

0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:46.000
<v Speaker 1>story detailed the horror faced by a young man from

0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Tangiers who had a drug addiction and had been left

0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:52.000
<v Speaker 1>at buyah Omer in two thousand and six by his brother.

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.680
<v Speaker 1>He was robbed and beaten, deprived of food and water,

0:26:56.400 --> 0:26:58.879
<v Speaker 1>but was finally saved by the same brother came to

0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:01.879
<v Speaker 1>see him a year lay here for a year, he

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:06.639
<v Speaker 1>said he lived in hell. As these tales emerged, medical

0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:09.960
<v Speaker 1>professionals and human rights groups demanded the government shut the

0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:12.919
<v Speaker 1>shrine down, putting the authorities between a rock and a

0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:16.680
<v Speaker 1>hard place. After all, the shrine was part and parcel

0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:20.240
<v Speaker 1>of their cultural heritage, as were the beliefs around gin

0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:25.280
<v Speaker 1>and spiritual healing. Others counter protested, insisting the shrine remained

0:27:25.320 --> 0:27:29.040
<v Speaker 1>open not only because of its historic importance, but also

0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 1>because they simply didn't know what to do with their

0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:34.399
<v Speaker 1>loved ones, where to take them, how to help heal them.

0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:37.080
<v Speaker 1>But the government conducted a review of the shrine operations

0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:40.280
<v Speaker 1>and in two thousand and fifteen shut it down, much

0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:43.960
<v Speaker 1>to the relief of activists and health professionals. It didn't

0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:47.440
<v Speaker 1>just shut down the shrine, though, The government allocated millions

0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:50.119
<v Speaker 1>of dollars for the patients that would be escaping the shrine,

0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:54.199
<v Speaker 1>recruited mental health professionals, and bought dozens of ambulances to

0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:58.880
<v Speaker 1>transport the ill and the story itself prompted both national

0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:04.320
<v Speaker 1>and international conversations about mental health, abuse of power, human rights, tradition,

0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:09.639
<v Speaker 1>and faith, but also about gin. After all, the government

0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:11.920
<v Speaker 1>could shut down the shrine, but they couldn't shut down

0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:15.920
<v Speaker 1>the healers who claimed powers derived from the saint, and

0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:19.680
<v Speaker 1>they couldn't shut down the Gin themselves, because as long

0:28:19.720 --> 0:28:22.320
<v Speaker 1>as they're a gin, there will always be people who

0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:33.560
<v Speaker 1>promise they can save you from them. They say, there's

0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:36.520
<v Speaker 1>sometimes a fine line between a gift and a curse,

0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:40.640
<v Speaker 1>and such is the case with madness too, because while

0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:42.640
<v Speaker 1>it has often been thought to be a result of

0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:45.960
<v Speaker 1>evil or dark forces, there's a place on the spectrum

0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:49.960
<v Speaker 1>that has long been considered a portal to enlightenment. In

0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 1>the Sufi tradition, you are lucky to be known as

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:57.000
<v Speaker 1>much hub, meaning an unruly friend of God, a person

0:28:57.080 --> 0:29:00.440
<v Speaker 1>touched with madness that connected them to the divine, opened

0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:02.960
<v Speaker 1>them up to secrets, gave them the ability to see

0:29:03.000 --> 0:29:05.760
<v Speaker 1>and understand, and no things the rest of us aren't

0:29:05.800 --> 0:29:09.200
<v Speaker 1>capable of. These people would be forgiven in an otherwise

0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:13.440
<v Speaker 1>orthodox society for exhibiting bizarre behavior and speech, like running

0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:18.560
<v Speaker 1>around naked, babbling in tongues, dancing and frenetic ecstasy, and

0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:22.800
<v Speaker 1>breaking all kinds of religious and social norms. And yes,

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:26.880
<v Speaker 1>the sacred madness was attributed to Gin good Gin, that is,

0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:30.200
<v Speaker 1>pious Jin, who possessed the bodies of pious men and

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:33.680
<v Speaker 1>women and opened up the reality of God to them,

0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:38.160
<v Speaker 1>connecting them through the madness to an unseen holy realm.

0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.840
<v Speaker 1>The awe that these unruly friends inspired in sufis may

0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:45.440
<v Speaker 1>seem odd, but then behold the Western regard for genius.

0:29:46.560 --> 0:29:50.840
<v Speaker 1>The German philosopher Arthur Scopenhauer once said genius lives only

0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:55.240
<v Speaker 1>one story above madness, and well before that, Aristotle told

0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:58.440
<v Speaker 1>us no great mind has ever existed without a touch

0:29:58.480 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 1>of madness. Indeed, many of the celebrated geniuses of Western art, literature, science,

0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:09.920
<v Speaker 1>and philosophy suffered from some psychiatric or psychological disorder. Many

0:30:10.000 --> 0:30:12.640
<v Speaker 1>many studies have been done correlating the two phenomena and

0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:16.360
<v Speaker 1>making a strong case for the relationship between madness and art.

0:30:17.760 --> 0:30:23.040
<v Speaker 1>One study found that of famous poets experienced psychopathology, and

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:26.240
<v Speaker 1>another study found quote a very high percentage of the

0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:29.600
<v Speaker 1>writers and artists, thirty eight percent had been treated for

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:33.000
<v Speaker 1>a mood disorder. Of those treated, three forts have been

0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:38.720
<v Speaker 1>given antidepressants, lithium, or have been hospitalized. There are researchers

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:41.760
<v Speaker 1>who dismissed the idea that madness and genius are correlated,

0:30:41.880 --> 0:30:45.520
<v Speaker 1>citing poorly designed studies and conflation and an entire host

0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:50.160
<v Speaker 1>of undermining factors. But then the famous Lord Byron once

0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:54.520
<v Speaker 1>said about himself, we of the craft are all crazy.

0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Some are affected by gayety, others by melancholy, but all

0:30:58.760 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 1>are more or less touched. Byron spoke from personal experience.

0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Both he and his contemporary Percy Shelley, were aflicted with

0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:11.920
<v Speaker 1>wide ranging mood swings, from deep sadness and apathy to

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:17.120
<v Speaker 1>fits of uncontrollable rage, common signs of manic depressive disorder.

0:31:18.240 --> 0:31:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Van Go suffered mental illness for many years of his life,

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 1>leading him to both slice off his ear and shoot

0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:30.240
<v Speaker 1>himself in the chest. Nicola, Tesla, Nietici, Isaac Newton, Edgar

0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Allan Poe, Virginia Wolf, Wolfgang Amadeus. The list of mad

0:31:35.160 --> 0:31:40.000
<v Speaker 1>geniuses goes on and on, and just like the Sufis

0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:43.160
<v Speaker 1>gave a pass to their unruly friends of God, so

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:47.000
<v Speaker 1>has the West not just tolerated, but celebrated its own

0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:51.560
<v Speaker 1>unruly creatives, understanding on some level that these two forces

0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:55.200
<v Speaker 1>go hand in hand. What, however, does any of this

0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:58.240
<v Speaker 1>have to do with gin Well, you'd be surprised to

0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:01.800
<v Speaker 1>know the etymology of the word genius, in case you

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:05.120
<v Speaker 1>didn't make the connection from how the word sounds. Some

0:32:05.160 --> 0:32:07.720
<v Speaker 1>scholars say and may have its roots in the Arabic

0:32:07.840 --> 0:32:13.480
<v Speaker 1>word ginia and the Arabic word jin, which makes perfect

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.720
<v Speaker 1>sense when you learn that the entire concept of genius

0:32:16.800 --> 0:32:20.640
<v Speaker 1>dates back to ancient Rome, because the Romans believed that

0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:24.800
<v Speaker 1>we are all born with genius. Actually, to be more precise,

0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:28.200
<v Speaker 1>they believe that we are all born with a genius,

0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 1>a genius that was originally thought to be a guiding spirit.

0:32:31.920 --> 0:32:34.920
<v Speaker 1>That each one of us was born with a supernatural

0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:39.240
<v Speaker 1>entity that's separate from us, but lives with us, inside

0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:43.640
<v Speaker 1>of us, inspiring us. I don't know sounds kind of

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:49.120
<v Speaker 1>like a Jin to me. Thanks for joining us this week.

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Next week we'll be back to take you another step

0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:56.000
<v Speaker 1>into the world of the Hidden Gin. Until then, remember

0:32:56.560 --> 0:33:05.800
<v Speaker 1>we are not alone. If you loved today's episode, I'm

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:08.560
<v Speaker 1>gonna ask you a big favor. Please stop my iTunes

0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:11.320
<v Speaker 1>and leave me a rating and a review, even if

0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:14.200
<v Speaker 1>it's just one short sentence. Not only is that how

0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:17.440
<v Speaker 1>other listeners discover the podcast, but it's also what keeps

0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:21.200
<v Speaker 1>the podcast going. And for every thousand reviews that I

0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:25.480
<v Speaker 1>get on iTunes, I'll release another Patreon episode absolutely free.

0:33:25.880 --> 0:33:29.080
<v Speaker 1>That's right, We're on Patreon, so if you're a Jin enthusiast,

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.960
<v Speaker 1>check out the Companion Patreon series at patreon dot com

0:33:33.040 --> 0:33:37.479
<v Speaker 1>slash Hidden Jin. Again, that's patreon dot com slash Hidden Gin,

0:33:37.560 --> 0:33:40.280
<v Speaker 1>and remember Jin is spelled d j I n N.

0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:43.800
<v Speaker 1>That's where you're gonna find an amazing series of interviews

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 1>between me, scholars, experts, artist, historians, and every day lay

0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:53.120
<v Speaker 1>people who have had extraordinary experiences with Jin and everybody

0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:55.520
<v Speaker 1>can check out the first episode absolutely free. It's me

0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:58.400
<v Speaker 1>and my husband sharing our Jin stories and it was

0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:01.360
<v Speaker 1>a lot of fun. And if you have any Gin stories,

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:04.320
<v Speaker 1>well I'd love to hear from you. Email me at

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:07.480
<v Speaker 1>the Hidden Gin at gmail dot com. Once again, it's

0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:10.719
<v Speaker 1>the Hidden Gin Gin with a D at gmail dot

0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:13.279
<v Speaker 1>com and you might just hear back from me, or

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.560
<v Speaker 1>you might hear your story on this show. And finally,

0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:20.040
<v Speaker 1>don't forget to follow us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter,

0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:23.719
<v Speaker 1>and Instagram with the handle the Hidden Gin. There you

0:34:23.719 --> 0:34:27.759
<v Speaker 1>can tweet, post, insta, dm me. I'd love to hear

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:29.960
<v Speaker 1>from all of you, and believe me, I read every

0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:36.319
<v Speaker 1>single message. The Hidden Gin is a production of I

0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:40.120
<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The

0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:43.800
<v Speaker 1>podcast is written and hosted by Robbia Chaudry and produced

0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:48.440
<v Speaker 1>by Miranda Hawkins and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey,

0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Music for the show was

0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:57.320
<v Speaker 1>provided by Smith Sony and Folkways Recordings. Our theme song

0:34:57.360 --> 0:35:01.000
<v Speaker 1>was created by Patrick Cortez. For more podcasts from I

0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:05.239
<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:35:05.680 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you get your podcasts. H