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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Land Tawny, the co chair

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Speaker 2: of American Hunters and Anglers, to discuss the recent battle

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Speaker 2: over public lands and what we should be looking forward

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Speaker 2: to and expecting in the coming weeks and months when

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Speaker 2: it comes to public lands and future threats. All right,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to

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Speaker 2: you by First Light and their Camo for Conservation Initiative.

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Speaker 2: And today we're talking public lands, and we are talking

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Speaker 2: about a recent controversy that's been brewing the last few

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Speaker 2: months that hopefully you're aware of. Hopefully you've seen this

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Speaker 2: either here on my social media or on the wire

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Speaker 2: Dunt podcast or the Mediator podcast or Kales podcasts, or

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Speaker 2: across many other platforms that have been talking about what's happening.

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Speaker 2: But in short, we have been experiencing a series of

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Speaker 2: different proposals to sell off public lands and these proposals

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Speaker 2: were a part of the One Big Beautiful Bill that's

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Speaker 2: been debated in the House and Senate and recently signed

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Speaker 2: into law by President Trump. And these proposals were talking

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Speaker 2: about doing everything from selling off hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 2: acres of our federal public lands up to maybe as

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Speaker 2: much as three million acres of public lands. And as

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Speaker 2: again I hope you are aware, there was this massive

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Speaker 2: opposition to that, this massive pushback from hunters and anglers

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Speaker 2: and outdoor folks of all types, and ultimately we were

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Speaker 2: able to get the sale provision pulled out. There are

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Speaker 2: many other things still included in this bill that passed

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Speaker 2: that do impact public lands, but the sale part was

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Speaker 2: taking out. And so today what I want to do

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Speaker 2: is talk about what just happened, what we can learn

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Speaker 2: from it, what we can take from it and apply

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Speaker 2: to future advocacy and push back when the next thing happens,

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Speaker 2: when the next threat to our public lands or wildlife

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Speaker 2: or waters appears, and then finally take a deep dive

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Speaker 2: into what those next threats might be, what's coming down

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Speaker 2: the pipeline, what was still included in this bill the

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Speaker 2: past that impacts hunters and anglers and outdoor people and wildlife,

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Speaker 2: and what are some of these other things being proposed

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Speaker 2: right now or that might be coming that could impact

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Speaker 2: our access to public lands, our abilities to hunt or

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Speaker 2: fish or do anything out on these places. So that's

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Speaker 2: the topic today. Our guest is someone who has a

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Speaker 2: tremendous amount of experience in this world in advocating for

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Speaker 2: these things and rallying grassroots support to do something like

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Speaker 2: we just did stop this public land sale. And that

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Speaker 2: person that guest is Land. Tawny Land was the former

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Speaker 2: president and CEO of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. He worked

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Speaker 2: previously to that for the National Wildlife Federation and the

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Speaker 2: Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, and he now is the co

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Speaker 2: chair of a new organization called American Hunters and Anglers,

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Speaker 2: And he and his organization were deeply involved in the

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Speaker 2: grassroots pushback against this public land sale as well. And

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Speaker 2: he's been deeply engaged in many of these previous battles

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Speaker 2: for more than a quarter century. He's been working on

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Speaker 2: this stuff, so he has a deep well of knowledge

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Speaker 2: about what's happening, what's happened in the past, and what's

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Speaker 2: likely to come down the pipe in the coming weeks, months,

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Speaker 2: and years. So that's why Land is the guy to

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Speaker 2: talk to you here today. We're going to cover all

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Speaker 2: those things, what's happened, what's happening now, what could come

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Speaker 2: in the future, and then what we can do as

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Speaker 2: individuals to make sure that we stop the next one

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Speaker 2: and the next one after that, and making sure that

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Speaker 2: we have quality places to hunt and fish or backpacking

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Speaker 2: camp or simply have wild open space or wild animals

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Speaker 2: still out there or wildfish in the rivers. All of

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Speaker 2: that is in the game plan today. It's a great chap.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited for you to tune in. I'm excited for

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Speaker 2: you to be inspired and educated by Land and to

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Speaker 2: get out there and continue fighting the good fight yourself.

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Speaker 2: So that's what we're doing today. Very quick update. This

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Speaker 2: hat that I'm wearing if you're watching on video, is

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Speaker 2: a brand new hat for Wired Hunt. It's over on

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Speaker 2: the meat Eater store. If you're interested in repping this

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Speaker 2: pretty cool camo vintage whitetail hat yourself, you can check

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Speaker 2: it out at the meat eater dot com. Navigate to

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Speaker 2: the shop. You'll find it there, as well as a

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Speaker 2: whole bunch of new hats and other logo were so

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Speaker 2: check that out if you're interested in Otherwise, let's get

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Speaker 2: to my chap with land Tonic. All right, joining me

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Speaker 2: back on the show is mister land Tawny. Welcome back,

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Speaker 2: land Mark.

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Speaker 3: Great to see you.

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Speaker 2: You as well. I'm glad that we have occasion to

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Speaker 2: spend some time together. I wish he was under better circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Our topic today is not necessarily a fun one, but

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Speaker 2: glad to see your face again.

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Speaker 3: Land Well, thank you. Sometime we're going to have to

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Speaker 3: get out in the woods and waters and do this

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Speaker 3: in a proper way.

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Speaker 2: I agree with that one hundred percent agree with that.

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Speaker 2: I feel like last time, did you float the Smith

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Speaker 2: this spring? Was that right? I think we were talking

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Speaker 2: earlier this year and you were just about to or

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Speaker 2: just had.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no wet the foot of the Smith first week

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Speaker 3: of May.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So maybe one of these days when you

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Speaker 2: pull that permit next time, invite me along and then

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Speaker 2: we can do this.

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Speaker 3: Well, see there there could be a trade somewhere. You know,

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Speaker 3: that's such a special place that you need to experience,

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Speaker 3: especially if it stays the way it is hopefully right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So let's let's just get into it,

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Speaker 2: because there's a lot to talk about. We probably don't

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Speaker 2: have enough time to talk about everything. Anyone who has

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Speaker 2: a pulse that has been you know, a hunter or angler,

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Speaker 2: or really anyone who pays attention to the outdoors in

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Speaker 2: any kind of way, probably over the last two months

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Speaker 2: has seen what's been going on with our public lands.

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Speaker 2: They've heard about this public lands sale that was going

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Speaker 2: to be included in the One Big Beautiful Bill. We've

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Speaker 2: talked about it quite a bit across the media to

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Speaker 2: properties both here and Cal's podcast and Mediator proper. But

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Speaker 2: what I haven't got to do on this show yet

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Speaker 2: is really do like a like a what's the right word,

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Speaker 2: like a debriefing of what just happened, what we can

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Speaker 2: learn from it, and what's coming next. And so that

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Speaker 2: is the the job I'm signing you up for. Are

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Speaker 2: you Are you game to take on that role and

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Speaker 2: to kind of go down that road with me.

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Speaker 3: Let's do this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so you have been around the block, you

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Speaker 2: have seen this before, you've been deep engage in this

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Speaker 2: set of issues. We saw something pretty similar to this

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Speaker 2: back in twenty seventeen during the whole Chavitz deal. And

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Speaker 2: I'm curious, you've just seen over the last two months

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Speaker 2: this multiple different iterations of attempts to sell off public

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Speaker 2: lands simultaneous to this rising of awareness within the outdoor

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Speaker 2: and hunting a fishing community around what's happening in opposition

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Speaker 2: to it what we just saw. How is it different

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Speaker 2: in any kind of way from what we've seen in

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Speaker 2: the past.

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Speaker 3: Great question, and thank you. I think that, you know,

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Speaker 3: the first piece that I would say is different is

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Speaker 3: back when Schaefis was trying to sell over three million

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Speaker 3: acres of public land that had nothing to do with

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Speaker 3: like tax breaks for billionaires. Like this is a totally

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Speaker 3: different mechanism, I would say. And so the iteration you

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Speaker 3: saw in the House and then in you know, the

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Speaker 3: two versions or three versions however many you want to

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Speaker 3: count from Senator Lee in the Senate, those were all

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Speaker 3: to payoff tax breaks for billionaires. And so I think

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Speaker 3: that's like a different scenario as far as what happened

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Speaker 3: with Congressman Schafitz. I would also say that what's different

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Speaker 3: this time is it's all being talked about as an

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Speaker 3: affordable housing right. That's kind of like the issue dejure

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Speaker 3: to talk about how to sell our public lands is

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Speaker 3: to talk about affordable housing. And so that's a new

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Speaker 3: tactic I think that Senator Mike Lee in particular has

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Speaker 3: grabbed onto and one that we're gonna hear more often.

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Speaker 3: And I think the third thing that I guess I

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Speaker 3: would say was different. I felt like back in twenty

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Speaker 3: seventeen it was really the sportsman's community, hunters and anglers

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Speaker 3: that led the pushback, and that was definitely seeing this

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Speaker 3: last go around. In fact, I think the breadth and

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Speaker 3: depth of that was even bigger. I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: that from brands to influencers, to individuals to organizations, that

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Speaker 3: pushback this time was way heavier than it was in

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen. But I think in addition to that, the

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Speaker 3: rest of the outdoor community, so the mountain bikers and

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Speaker 3: the kayakers and the hike and the paddlers, like they

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Speaker 3: showed up in droves this time too. Like I think

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Speaker 3: the Outdoor Alliance in particular with Adam Kramer over there,

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Speaker 3: Nicole Brown, I mean, they just crushed it as far

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Speaker 3: as getting people to get engaged, and so that you know,

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Speaker 3: to me, I think it's like probably three big differences

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Speaker 3: is again kind of the difference of where it was

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Speaker 3: like proposed and this reconciliation bill. I think that the

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Speaker 3: overall idea of affordable housing, and then the third is

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Speaker 3: just the automatic pushback which is had created so different

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Speaker 3: but very similar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's one of those things where the whole

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Speaker 2: time this was going on, I kept thinking that twenty

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Speaker 2: seven to twenty sixteen, seventeen eighteen, it was all a

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Speaker 2: dress rehearsal, or it was all like a training ground

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Speaker 2: for this moment, because I felt like that primed the

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Speaker 2: pump for our communities and we were able to stop that.

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Speaker 2: But I felt like this felt like the big one

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Speaker 2: that we were now so much better prepared. There were

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Speaker 2: so many people who learned about this stuff back in

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen and eighteen and became aware of it, and

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Speaker 2: now eight years later it was like, Oh, it's this

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Speaker 2: thing again. Now we know what's going on. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: like we were having to convince people that selling or

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Speaker 2: transferring our public linds were bad. We weren't having to

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Speaker 2: like establish stuff foundation as much. It was like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: this this thing is back in a more serious way

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Speaker 2: than ever, and everyone was able to activate. Did it

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Speaker 2: feel that way to you.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it totally felt like that way to me. I

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Speaker 3: think that, you know that this time it also felt

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Speaker 3: like that these are on one side or the other,

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Speaker 3: right like there like this last time, like I think

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Speaker 3: that it wasn't quite as much of a call to

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Speaker 3: action in our community in particular, but this time it

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Speaker 3: was like if you weren't saying anything about it, like

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Speaker 3: who the heck are you right, like at that point,

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Speaker 3: And so I think that was different. But yeah, the

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Speaker 3: training grounds and I think that you know, a lot

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Speaker 3: of the tactics that got used back when you know,

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Speaker 3: Schaefletz was around, when Instagram was just kind of first starting,

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Speaker 3: right and remember all the comments that were on his

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Speaker 3: page going back months on posts that he had done

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Speaker 3: had nothing to do, you know, with with you know,

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Speaker 3: the sale of public lands, but people were mad. And

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Speaker 3: so I think that people remembered those tactics. And I

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Speaker 3: think that, you know, besides the emails that were sent

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Speaker 3: insides of the phone calls that were made, there was

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Speaker 3: a ton of stuff that happened on social media. And

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, one other thing I think it

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Speaker 3: would be different this time is that individuals stepped up

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Speaker 3: and did their own videos, you know, and like, these

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Speaker 3: are people with big followings, These are people with you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, a couple of hundred followers, but they took

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Speaker 3: it upon themselves to use social media to voice their opposition.

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Speaker 3: I think collectively that noise. Man, it was overwhelming for

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Speaker 3: you know, elected leaders, and that's what we exactly wanted

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so here's another thing that stood up to me.

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Speaker 2: And I'm curious if you notice this or if it's

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Speaker 2: just like selective bias on you know, like when you

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Speaker 2: buy if you buy a Tacoma, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: you start noticing everybody else as Tacoma's right. So maybe

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Speaker 2: this is that effect. But it did feel like this.

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Speaker 2: Over the last couple of months, the idea of calling

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Speaker 2: your elected officials became more public, became more like, the

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Speaker 2: intimidation factor around it, I think disappeared for a lot

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Speaker 2: of people I heard. I had stories from more people

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Speaker 2: than I've ever heard of, average folks who have never

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Speaker 2: done this before, who all of a sudden were like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm finally doing it, and then everyone being like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's not so bad, it's easy, you should do it.

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Speaker 2: I've heard of more people making phone calls this time

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Speaker 2: around than ever before. And I'm wondering if A, if

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Speaker 2: you think that's true, and it b if that is true,

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Speaker 2: which I think it is. That's like a huge silver

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Speaker 2: lining coming out of all this, because I think we

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Speaker 2: maybe have like removed like a safety off the bear

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Speaker 2: spray for our community that all of a sudden they realize, Okay,

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Speaker 2: now we know how to use this thing and we

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Speaker 2: can use it again that in the past we haven't.

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Speaker 2: Does that resonate with you?

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Speaker 3: Just don't spread on yourself. No, I think it totally

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Speaker 3: does resonate with me. And I think that you know,

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Speaker 3: it's easy to send an email, and I think that

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Speaker 3: you know, the feedback that we're getting is that email

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Speaker 3: just doesn't really cut through the noise a phone call does, right,

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Speaker 3: And I think that it is scary, But when you

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Speaker 3: see other people doing it, and then like when you

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Speaker 3: have something that you care so much about, mark like

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Speaker 3: that you care so much about and it's halady to

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Speaker 3: be taken away from you, you're willing to take that

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Speaker 3: risk and get on the phone and make a phone

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Speaker 3: call because it matters so much to you, And then

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Speaker 3: you realize it's not as big of a deal and

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Speaker 3: you tell your friends and then they you know, I

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Speaker 3: think that that that momentum builds. But I would totally

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Speaker 3: agree that that the phone calls this time around. And

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, I credit folks like you that

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Speaker 3: made phone calls like on camera, right, like you know,

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Speaker 3: this is that easy, right, I'm gonna make a phone

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Speaker 3: call right here. And I think that when people see that,

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Speaker 3: they're like, Okay, maybe it doesn't so scary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it really isn't. I've yet to have anyone

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Speaker 2: argue with me or or quibble with my perspective. Uh.

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Speaker 2: Usually it's it's just a sad, lonely, overworked intern. Just

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Speaker 2: it's gonna take whatever you say down.

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Speaker 3: They're so yeah, they're keeping score right, like they're you know,

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Speaker 3: they're taking your name and where you're from them, and

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Speaker 3: it matters if you're from that state, Like it really matters.

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Speaker 3: Not that should stop us from calling let's say, people

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Speaker 3: like Mike Lee, but they're keeping a tally, right, and

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Speaker 3: so they're just and the more that they get then

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Speaker 3: they're going to go report that to the boss. And

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Speaker 3: so you may be getting you know that overwork intern.

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Speaker 3: As you say, one be polite to them, they may

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Speaker 3: be chief of staff at some point. You should also

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Speaker 3: just treat everybody with respect anyways, but that stuff does

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Speaker 3: trickle up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Are there any other I hate to say wins,

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Speaker 2: but like a silver lining to what we just experienced

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Speaker 2: and everything that's gone on. Are there any of the

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Speaker 2: things that came out of this? And I say all

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Speaker 2: this with the realization that we'll get to the fact

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Speaker 2: that it's not really done. There's there's much more going on.

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Speaker 2: But we did just kind of win a battle. We

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Speaker 2: won a small battle in a larger war. A bunch

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Speaker 2: of other stuff that's not great still happen, which we'll

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Speaker 2: talk about here in a second. But coming out of

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Speaker 2: the fact that one big, beautiful bill has passed, we

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Speaker 2: got a little portion of it taken out. Is there

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Speaker 2: any else? Is there anything else you take away from

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Speaker 2: this moment, from this several month experience, the way as

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Speaker 2: the community went through through this win, anything else you

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Speaker 2: would take out either as just a is a key

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Speaker 2: takeaway or a silver lining or something we can learn from.

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Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people say you learn you

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Speaker 3: know more from losses than you do from wins, and

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Speaker 3: I kind of think that's bullshit, especially right now, Like,

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Speaker 3: you know, we think about what just happened, and in

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Speaker 3: some ways it didn't surprise me. But also you never know, right,

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Speaker 3: you never know what the people are going to do.

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Speaker 3: There's so much that are coming at us on so

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Speaker 3: many fronts. Is this going to be the place? And

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Speaker 3: it happened to be where everybody came together. And what

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Speaker 3: everybody should take away from that is, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 3: Look low democracy works when we all demand something. When

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Speaker 3: you are a Republican, Democrat, independent, you might not even

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Speaker 3: have voted in the last election, but when you use

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Speaker 3: your voice collectively, like when we use our voices collectively,

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Speaker 3: like look what we can accomplish. And so, you know,

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Speaker 3: as you said, like this was like a battle. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I like to I've been using this analogy. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're celebrating folks that got it out of there, which

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Speaker 3: I think is totally awesome. But that's like celebrating the waiter,

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Speaker 3: you know, for plucking the hair out of the soup,

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Speaker 3: Like that's that hair should have never been in that

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Speaker 3: soup in the first place. And who are the damn cooks,

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Speaker 3: you know, and how do we keep it out of

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Speaker 3: there going forward? And so I think we should celebrate it.

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Speaker 3: We all came together. The squeaky wheel still gets to

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Speaker 3: grease in this country. I'm very surprised that this is

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Speaker 3: kind of the issue, you know, that was the one

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Speaker 3: that brought us all together, But it also takes solace

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Speaker 3: in it. And in some ways I'm not surprised because

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Speaker 3: I know that you know, these lands again, they don't

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Speaker 3: matter who you are, and they belong to all of us.

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Speaker 3: And what a legacy that we have. And I think

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Speaker 3: people are really you know, whether that's you know, the

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Speaker 3: education that's happened since twenty seventeen. Mark, I think you

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Speaker 3: made astute observation. You don't have to convince people this

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Speaker 3: is a bad idea. It was like a hell no,

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Speaker 3: besides a very very small fraction. So that was great,

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Speaker 3: and I think we should all take solace in that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, another thing that stood up to me

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Speaker 2: was that this was another terrific example of the influence

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Speaker 2: and impact we can have when we come together on

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Speaker 2: an issue across party lines, when we set aside whatever

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Speaker 2: team we like to say we're part of and instead

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Speaker 2: just focused on an issue and said, hey, maybe I'm

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Speaker 2: a Republican or maybe i'm a Democrat or maybe I'm

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Speaker 2: an independent, doesn't matter. This idea of selling off republic

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Speaker 2: lands is a bad idea. So I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: to a protest and stand next to the Maga hat

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Speaker 2: wearing or the rainbow T shirt wearing or the whatever

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Speaker 2: person right who cares, because we care about this thing

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Speaker 2: so much. And to your point that the wheel was

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Speaker 2: really squeaky when you stand up with all these different

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Speaker 2: types of people and you force people in power to listen,

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Speaker 2: when they can't just say, oh, those are just the

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Speaker 2: people that hate me anyways, when instead it's like the

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Speaker 2: people that hate you, the people that are kind of

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Speaker 2: on the fence about you, and the people who voted

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Speaker 2: for you, when they say, hey, this is a bad idea.

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Speaker 2: That influence has changed, and that is something that we

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Speaker 2: need to remember today with the current administration. It's something

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Speaker 2: we need to remember three years from now, with the

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Speaker 2: next administration and the next one and the next one,

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Speaker 2: no matter who is in power. There are a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks out there who maybe have a different team

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Speaker 2: on their T shirt title, but we share many common interests,

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Speaker 2: especially when it comes to public lands, waters, wildlife. We

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Speaker 2: can set aside whatever differences we have to come together

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Speaker 2: on these core shared things and actually see success because.

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Speaker 3: Of it totally. And I you know, I think the

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Speaker 3: sale of public lands is an easy one to come across.

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Speaker 3: And we start talking about the management, you know, of

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Speaker 3: public lands, and that maybe is a different one to

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Speaker 3: coalesce around, right, But I think you learn some trust,

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Speaker 3: maybe as you're saying, you know, and some you find

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Speaker 3: some shared common grounds so you can have conversations about

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Speaker 3: other issues. And I don't want to be too Pollyannis

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Speaker 3: and say that you know, now we're going to like

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Speaker 3: sing off the same sheet of music in our community forever.

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Speaker 3: That's not going to happen. But I think when you

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Speaker 3: do have those shared experiences and that shared I guess

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Speaker 3: just ultimate goal and it's a great way to come together.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean, you know, so goes public land,

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Speaker 3: so goes America. And so if we can come together here,

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Speaker 3: I think we can work on other issues.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so we'd beat back this iteration of Mike

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Speaker 2: Lee's public land sale. Our work's done, everything's good and

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Speaker 2: gold and moving forward.

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Speaker 3: Right, you know, that would be so awesome if we

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Speaker 3: could just right off into the sunset, get on the water,

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Speaker 3: go out get in the woods, you know, and just relax,

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Speaker 3: which you know, I think. Yeah, there's two things I

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Speaker 3: would say about that. One is that none of what

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Speaker 3: we have, this conversation that you and I are having

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Speaker 3: a day work, none of it happened by accident.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: There's been battles and I mean wins and losses for

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Speaker 3: you know, almost two hundred years of the modern day

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Speaker 3: kind of conservationist country and even longer than that. But like,

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Speaker 3: like let's just remember that, you know, like this is

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Speaker 3: an ongoing thing that will never be over, and then

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Speaker 3: kind of you know, take some solid that, right, like

403
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Speaker 3: we get to be part of what's next. But what's

404
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 3: next is like the onslide is still here, Like you know,

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Speaker 3: this is just like I think, using your words, like

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Speaker 3: this was a small victory in the overall war against

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Speaker 3: our public lands, in our public wildbite. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, so I want to talk through some of the

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Speaker 2: other things that were included in the bill that just passed,

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Speaker 2: But before that, I just want to see if you

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Speaker 2: have heard any more details on a rumor that I've

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Speaker 2: heard a little bit, which is that Lee might be

413
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Speaker 2: still trying to introduce something separately in the somewhat near

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Speaker 2: future with some revised version of a land sell. Do

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Speaker 2: you have any word on that, any details on that,

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Speaker 2: anything like that coming down the pipeine anything?

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Speaker 3: No. I mean I saw a story from Kirk Siegler

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Speaker 3: this morning out of National Public Radio that's, you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of mentioned that Mike Lee is going to you know,

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Speaker 3: be introducing something soon. He's talked about it, you know,

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Speaker 3: after he pulled it out. You know, I'm not done,

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Speaker 3: you know, like, you know, thanks for the feedback, but

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Speaker 3: I'm coming back for more, you know, And he's coming

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Speaker 3: back with it. You know what it will look like

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Speaker 3: and when I'm not sure, you know, if he does

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Speaker 3: bring it, bring it on, man, Like I just it

427
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 3: gives our community something to colss around. I get worried

428
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Speaker 3: at some level. It's a distraction though, from other things

429
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Speaker 3: that are going on, right, and so maybe that's there

430
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Speaker 3: playing chess and they're trying to distract us, and oh,

431
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Speaker 3: we got this, and so now if you use our energy,

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Speaker 3: we're not going to use it over here, right, And

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Speaker 3: I worry about that a little bit.

434
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 2: I wonder the exact same thing, because what was interesting

435
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 2: was during this whole big beautiful bill debate when it

436
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 2: went through the House version, and the House version of

437
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: the sale was being debated. It took all the oxygen

438
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 2: out of the room, right Like, everyone in the hunt

439
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 2: fish and environmental space had to talk about the sale

440
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 2: because that was the big one. Nothing else could be

441
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,639
Speaker 2: focused on. And then that park got pulled out. And

442
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden like, okay, let's look at

443
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 2: everything else that's in there. Oh, there's too at that time, like, oh,

444
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: Boundary Waters is still in there. Oh h the Arctic

445
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 2: National Wilife refuse drilling was still in there. Oh, like

446
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: I think at that point, the Ambler Road thing was

447
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 2: still in So everyone's start focusing all these other things

448
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 2: that had been kind of hidden beneath the land sale.

449
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: The Senate version comes around, all that stuff's in there,

450
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 2: and then they say, hey, the land sales back. And

451
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: then again it sucks all the oxygen out of the room.

452
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 2: Nobody can focus on anything else. Nothing will break through

453
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 2: because importantly we had we focused on that. But there's

454
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 2: no way you can get a bunch of communities like

455
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 2: ours to be able to say like, oh, hey, we're

456
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: worry about point A and point B and point C

457
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 2: and point D. That just doesn't doesn't work. So by

458
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 2: putting the land sale in there, it basically secures passage

459
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 2: for almost everything else because you just can't get enough

460
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 2: noise and attention around all these other issues. Yep, I've

461
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: wanted the same thing. It wasn't all a ploy to

462
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 2: get everything else through.

463
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 3: I mean, we could be conspirabs theorists and maybe think that.

464
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 3: I think this has been a ploy since the administration

465
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 3: of New Congress took over, and we're just going to

466
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 3: give you. I mean you talked about earlier. This is

467
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 3: like a shotgun approach, right, We're gonna shoot as many

468
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,040
Speaker 3: things at you and you got to dodge all the

469
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 3: bullets are push things back, and so that's eventually something

470
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 3: mix it through, right, And so I think this is

471
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 3: an overall strategy. But do I think that they did

472
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 3: it on purpose for it the Arctic, you know, in particular,

473
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 3: probably not. I think Mike Lee is so dogmatic about this.

474
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 3: That's why. I mean, this guy's asked handed to him

475
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 3: and he's talking about bringing it back right away. You know,

476
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 3: if I was his senate colleagues, I'm like, one, why

477
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: are you wasting our time? Because we know what's going

478
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 3: to happen with this, And then Two, why you get

479
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 3: putting us on the spot like this is a the

480
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 3: you know, distraction the other things that we want to do,

481
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: and the people have spoken and every single time you

482
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 3: bring this up, you're just gonna get slapped back. And

483
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 3: I you know, Mike Lee is a lot more long

484
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 3: term about this mark as you know. And I think

485
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 3: that he's never going to change his tunes. So I

486
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 3: don't think it was a play on his point. I

487
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 3: think the overall strategy right now has just hit us

488
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 3: with so much flood the zone, right, I think there's

489
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 3: a way to say it, and so that we don't

490
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: know what to do right.

491
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 2: So that said, within this bill, like setting everything else aside,

492
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 2: like I don't care about anything else? Who cares in

493
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: this instance? Just focusing on things specific to public lands, waters, wildlife?

494
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: Like are this lane that we're talking about here? What

495
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: else within the bill that just passed are you most

496
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 2: concerned about or think that we most need to flag

497
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 2: and be aware of, Like, oh, this thing happened, What

498
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: are the ramifications of this? Is there any you know,

499
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 2: recourse we have? What stands out to you is the

500
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: most concerning things that are still in there.

501
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I talked about one that isn't right.

502
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: I think they took out the Boundary Waters, you know,

503
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 3: that House version it got passed, and then there was

504
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 3: this manager's amendment, which gets super nerdy, but they were

505
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: basically saying this thing in there is a poison bill

506
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 3: because it's not going to pass the rules mostly than anything.

507
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 3: And so I think the Boundary Waters dots bullet there,

508
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: you know. And then I got back over to the

509
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 3: Senate and then that didn't get put in. I think

510
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 3: that was partly because the rule, but I also think

511
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 3: that you know, it's a special place and if you

512
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 3: if you can, Jill, you know, if you can, you know,

513
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 3: do a copper sulfide mine a quarter mile south of

514
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 3: the Boundary Waters, you could do that anywhere, right, I mean,

515
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 3: you know that landscape, how important it is. And so

516
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 3: like I was happy that that was taken out. Something

517
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 3: that did make it through that we've already kind of

518
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: talked about is the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, you know,

519
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 3: and what I hope people understand about the Artic National

520
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 3: while their refuge, and it was set aside when they

521
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 3: were doing more development, you know on the north slope,

522
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 3: Like this wasn't like this is, hey, let's just set

523
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 3: this thing aside for you know, shits and giggles. It

524
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: was done as a way to protect, you know, a

525
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 3: place while you were going to be defiling another place,

526
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 3: right and so this Arctic national wile, that refuge which

527
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 3: I've never been to, but you just were there. I

528
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 3: guess this's I take that in the boundary waters and

529
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 3: I bring them both up almost in the same venue.

530
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 3: Is that if you can go and destroy these places

531
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 3: or defile these places, you can do it anywhere. And

532
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 3: so they're like these things we put up on this pedestal,

533
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 3: and if you can go there, then you can go anywhere.

534
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 3: And I and so that one that made it through,

535
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 3: you know, and the idea there are forcing leases, you know,

536
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: four hundred thousand acres. I I just you know, the

537
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 3: last go around of Lises, it didn't go well, you know,

538
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: like not many people bought you know, like these leases,

539
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 3: and so we'll see what happens. Just go around with it.

540
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 3: I do that you're forcing leases is just ridiculous to me.

541
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 3: So that's a major one I think in my mind

542
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 3: for sure, not only if you have thoughts about that one.

543
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I echo everything that you just said. There,

544
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: it's a it's a place where you know, the vast

545
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: majority of the Arctic is open to drilling and leasing

546
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 2: in many parts on the on the western Arctic side,

547
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: there's this rare slice of coastal habitat left that's untouched.

548
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: That's part of this last great intact ecosystem, that's the

549
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: calving ground for the last caribou herd that's not precipitously declining.

550
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: You can go on and on and on with like

551
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: the superlatives about this place. I mean, to your point like,

552
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: are there a few last places that we don't have

553
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: to do this too? And unfortunately it seems like some

554
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: folks don't think so. But yeah, after getting to experience

555
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 2: it myself and just really recognize what a rare resource

556
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: that is on its own as it is, it's heartbreaking

557
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 2: to think of that changing. But there's there's there's unfortunately

558
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: many examples of that, whether it's the Boundary Waters or

559
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: the southern part of the Brooks Range where the Ambler

560
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: Road is proposed, or I mean many other places I'm

561
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 2: sure we're gonna talk about. So that's uh, as you

562
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, it's it's been going on for decades and

563
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: decades and decades. And it was funny when I wrote

564
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: my book, you know, six years ago or seven years

565
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: ago or whatever, it was, what I realized was that

566
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: thing right there, which is that as long as we

567
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: have had this public land system, have had these debates,

568
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: we have had these fights, We have had these battles.

569
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 2: And from one perspective, that can be like really discouraging

570
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 2: when you recognize, like, oh, wow, this has been going

571
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: on forever, It's going to continue forever. As long as

572
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,239
Speaker 2: we have these places, people will see dollar signs and

573
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 2: want it. So that can be depressing, But on the

574
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 2: flip side, it can also be encouraging because every single

575
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 2: time there's been one of those threats, one of those battles,

576
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: one of those fights, there have been hunters and anglers

577
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: and outdoor recreators and conservationists of all stripes and types

578
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: who have stood up and spoke out and fought back.

579
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: And we've won a whole lot of those battles, not

580
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: all of them, but we've won a lot. And so

581
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: it's kind of like in our in our DNA a

582
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: little bit. It's what we do. We protect these places,

583
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: and there's precedent that we can win some of them,

584
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: So that is encouraging in some ways.

585
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 3: But one more, it's a lot. It's a lot, right, Like,

586
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 3: and I think again you can be overwhelmed by that,

587
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: like this fight's never going to be over, and that

588
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: we continue to like have to you know, push back

589
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: against these things. It seems like they come in cycles.

590
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: You know. I think you talked about, you know, the

591
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 3: Arctic has been a political football for the last twenty years.

592
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 3: You know, I think the sale of public lands seems

593
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 3: to come up every eight to ten years, you know,

594
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: and and so these things come back. But it's also,

595
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: like I will say what I said before, like it's

596
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: so rad that we're still doing stuff that like Theodore

597
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: Roosevelt was fighting for that, alder Leopold was fighting for that,

598
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 3: Rachel Carson was fighting for you know. I mean I

599
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: think that, like it's kind of cool to be a

600
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: part of that whole thing. You talk about that bill

601
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: and one more, you know, there's a lot of stuff

602
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 3: in there, but there's another piece in there that takes

603
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: you know, infrastructure money away from the National parks. And

604
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: so the National Park System got some money to work

605
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: on infrastructure. You know, I saw an article a couple

606
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: of days ago that in June they had the highest

607
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: visitation in Yellowstone and Glacier than they've had ever, you know,

608
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 3: which has been happening for the last decade. And so

609
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: you had you know, I think it was like three

610
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty to four hundred million dollars that they

611
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,479
Speaker 3: took out, you know, for for actual maintenance and like

612
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 3: infrastructure for our parks. And I'm like, you know, here's

613
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: this amazing renewable resource. You know that people are going

614
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: to go there because like, this is what they want,

615
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 3: this is where they want to recreate. You've seen all

616
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: this data. It contributes to this one point two trillion

617
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: dollars of economic output, which is the entire outdoor you

618
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: know economy. Why are you taking away from the very

619
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 3: things that care and feed. That doesn't sound it doesn't

620
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 3: sound very like fiscally responsible. I would say to to really,

621
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: you know, take away the resources from the very things there.

622
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 3: You know, if you care and feed, not only can

623
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: we maintain that one point two chillion, but we can

624
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 3: also grow that. So that is one that I'll call

625
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: out every single time just because like I think it's ridiculous.

626
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, On the I love the idea

627
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: of being fasically conservative and making sure we're not breaking

628
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: the bank for our kids, but it's hard to make

629
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: that argument to use that as your defense for, you know,

630
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: trying to sell off our public lands or trying to

631
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: pull back funding from our land management agencies or anything

632
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: like that. In one hand, but then on the other,

633
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: in this same bill, you reduce royalty rates on the

634
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: gas and oil companies that are extracting oil from our

635
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: public lands. So I don't think people realize this that

636
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: there's this whole thing that saying, hey, we're trying to

637
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: be more basically conservative, but this bill reduced the dollars

638
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: the oil and gas companies pay back to the government

639
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: for taking oil and gas out of our public lands.

640
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: So instead of like trying to make this stuff more profitable,

641
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: we just made it less profitable. I have a hard

642
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: time spurring that one.

643
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's uh. I mean, that's again like, don't don't

644
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 3: don't look at what we're saying, look at what we're doing, right,

645
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: I think we have to look at what they're doing.

646
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: And in that case, these companies have been paying that

647
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 3: for decades and that's the cost of doing business. Like,

648
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 3: it's not like oil and gas is doing horrible right now.

649
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: They're having record profits, and so to me, that was

650
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 3: just you know, a nod in the to folks so

651
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: they can make more money, which you know that's gonna

652
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 3: be a select few. So it didn't. I mean, the

653
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 3: big beautiful bill was ugly in many ways.

654
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: So here's another one, a big win that we had

655
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: back in I guess it was early twenty twenty, maybe

656
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: when it signed or late twenty nineteen. It's all blurred now,

657
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: but the Great American Outdoors Act was a great win

658
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: for us as the honey and fishing and outdoor community.

659
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: That was signed into law by the Trump administration, and

660
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: they have celebrated that and rightfully, so I'm really glad

661
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 2: they signed into law, and I'm glad that there were

662
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: Republican Senators who helped push that across the finishing line.

663
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: That's awesome. But now we're seeing some of those funds

664
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 2: pulled back. That authorized permanently authorized the Land and Water

665
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: Conservation Fund, but I've been seeing those funds are being pulled. Now,

666
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 2: can you can you fill me in and focus in

667
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: a little bit more on what's going on with the

668
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: land and Water Conservation Fund and some of those dollars.

669
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: Yep, sure, So I'd say things one, there was some

670
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 3: money that was in the actual Big Beautiful Bill. It

671
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: was two hundred million dollars if I'm correct, That was

672
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 3: for a portion of the Land of Water Conservation Fund

673
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 3: dollars it was going to originally get pulled out that

674
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 3: got put back in. So we missed, we dodged a

675
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 3: bullet on that. There airs a budget that's proposed by

676
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: the Presence. This is separate from the Big Beautiful Bill.

677
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 3: This will be a budget that will be implemented in

678
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six. But it takes four hundred million dollars

679
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: from Land of Water Conservation Fund away in that bill

680
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 3: and puts it back to the General Treasury, which I

681
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 3: want us to like rewind history just a little bit.

682
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: Is that when President Trump was president first go around,

683
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: he had a budget which totally completely zeroed out the

684
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: Land of Water Conservation Fund. So it took it from

685
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: you know, its potential at nine hundred million dollars all

686
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 3: the way to zero. Then a couple months later, Senator

687
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: Danes and Corey Gardner are running for reelection. You know,

688
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: Danes is from Montana, Corey Gardner from Colorado. Both Republicans

689
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: came to him and said, man, the Land of Water

690
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: Conservation Fund is so important to our constitutions. We need

691
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: to get something done that permently authorizes, you know, this

692
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 3: fund at nine hundred million dollars a year. The President's like,

693
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 3: I think his words were sweet, get me something on

694
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 3: my desk and I'll sign it. Well, that's when all

695
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: the work out put into describes as it was, awesome bill,

696
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: great American outdoors. Actly, I only did it have a

697
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 3: land of Water Conservation Fund in there, but like twelve

698
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: billion dollars for you know, maintenance on our national parks,

699
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: national force. Amazing sign into law. We all celebrate, which

700
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 3: we should, as you described, like I remember like making

701
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 3: a ton of phone calls. We had centered Danes on

702
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 3: a zoom call when I was back at back up

703
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 3: to under Nador. Is amazing. That's fast forward. Second administration.

704
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: The first time he gets to you know, put a

705
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 3: budget forward and here's this bill that he just signed

706
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 3: into law, and I wants to cut it by four

707
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 3: hundred million dollars, right and so almost in half. And

708
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: to me, man, that's just like that's straight political talk.

709
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 3: Is what we just saw, Like what happens in politics

710
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 3: is that you they say what you want to hear.

711
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 3: Actually something happens because it was politically salient. But then

712
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 3: the original intent of gutting that pro is now there.

713
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 3: And so the good news is is that's just a

714
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 3: proposal by the president. Right, So the president gets a

715
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 3: budget proposal together. Now only did he gout you know,

716
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 3: landwater controvational phone, but he gutted our you know, our

717
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 3: public land management agencies in a huge way as far

718
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 3: as how they're going to manage. But that goes to Congress.

719
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: Then Congress is like, thanks for that. Now we're going

720
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 3: to do our own thing. And we're seeing obviously the

721
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 3: president has a lot of influence over this Congress in particular,

722
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: but the Congress starts over and they basically do their

723
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: own thing with the idea of thinking about the president's

724
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 3: budget because ultimately he has to sign it. So we

725
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: have a lot of time with LWCF, I would say

726
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 3: to push back against this ill fated idea. And you know,

727
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: since it's been used in every single county in America,

728
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 3: you know, and every single elected official has some project

729
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 3: in their district that I feel, you know, okay, but

730
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 3: it's going to be one that the people are going

731
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 3: to have to step up on really quick.

732
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: Just in case someone doesn't know what the LWCF is,

733
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: can you give us the thirty second cliff notes.

734
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 3: Sir Water Conservation Fund, established in nineteen sixty four, takes

735
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 3: money from offshore oil development in the Gulf of Mexico

736
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 3: puts it back towards conservation access. And like I said,

737
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 3: every single county, if you've ever been to a swimming pool,

738
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 3: a golf course, or a soccer field and a small

739
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 3: community in particular, that's probably paid for by the Land

740
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 3: Water Conservation Fund. Any single time you've been on a

741
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: boat ramp or a river access site, that's usually paid

742
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 3: for by the Land Water Conservation Fund. And so not

743
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 3: only that was used for you know, big kind of

744
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 3: purchase conservation easements across this country, for wildlife corridors and

745
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 3: for sportsman's access. So it is like one of the

746
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 3: tools for access and conservation and just recreation in general

747
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 3: in this country. Yeah.

748
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 2: Huge, Okay. So, so we've talked about the big beautiful

749
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 2: bill the past. What's still in it, what's not still

750
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 2: in it. We've talked about some of this budget stuff

751
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 2: a little bit. What's what's the next big thing you

752
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 2: think you can back to, like flood the zone. There's

753
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff going on. There's many different proposals

754
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: and potential legislation and administrative actions that will influence public lands, waters, wildlife.

755
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: But what's the next big one that you want to

756
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: shine a light on that we should be aware of.

757
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 3: So I talked about like the three d's right, So

758
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 3: in the first D would be defund and we'll talk

759
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 3: a little bit more about that in a second. Then

760
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 3: you talk about dismantle, and then all towards the idea

761
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 3: of divest and divest is just the fancy word for

762
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 3: sell it, you know off. And so let's talk about

763
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 3: the defund We've already talked about that already. Like this budget,

764
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 3: just to put a finer point on it, is going

765
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: to be a major deal for a public lands management

766
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 3: agencies in twenty twenty six. They've already you know, taken

767
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 3: huge hits on staffing in particular, but they've been you know,

768
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 3: underfunded for a couple of decades leading up to this already. Right,

769
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 3: we haven't kept up with inflation, we haven't kept up

770
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 3: with like the you know, the amount of UH, I

771
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 3: would say, use these public LANs are getting, which continues

772
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 3: to go up I described earlier, and so that defund

773
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: and I think is huge. The next one, so we've

774
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: already talked about that. The next one I would talk

775
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 3: about is just just dismantling. And so Supreme Court just

776
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 3: ruled last week that it's okay for the Trump administration

777
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 3: to go around Congress and do reductions in force through

778
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: the agencies. And so all the firing basically that happened

779
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 3: through DOGE has now kind of been said to the

780
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 3: advice the Supreme Court that was okay, and it opens

781
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 3: up the door to do it again. And so, you know,

782
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 3: I've got friends within the agency. I have, you know,

783
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 3: retired folks that have folks that have just left calling me,

784
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 3: and they're so nervous about what this next one's going

785
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: to look like, especially you know, as we're facing fire season.

786
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 3: You know here in Montana it's not as bad yet

787
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 3: as as it probably could be, but it's starting and

788
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: and you know we've already gonna be working on a

789
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: really skeleton crew there. And so what happens I think

790
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: that's that's dismantling. And I say these two things. You

791
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 3: if you break it and somebody's got to fix it,

792
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: and how do you fix it. You privatize it, and

793
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 3: that's kind of like the game plan that we're seeing.

794
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 3: So then you get to that, you know, that last

795
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 3: word divest and so those two we got to be

796
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: paying attention. And so how do we push back against that? Well,

797
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 3: I think first go around, when the national parks were

798
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 3: in such trouble, in particular, because national parks are you know,

799
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 3: again like celebrated probably as the crown jewel, you know,

800
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,839
Speaker 3: of all of our public lands. When they were being

801
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 3: reduced in staff, people started pushing back, and that's an

802
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 3: administration said, well, we're going to hire back, you know,

803
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 3: some people temporarily, right. I think Doug Bergen came out

804
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 3: and said that, and if they have not done yet,

805
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 3: by the way, but that was because there was so

806
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 3: much pushback from the people. And I think to senators

807
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 3: in particular, you don't think the administrations THAT'SAI thely going

808
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 3: to listen, but when senators start calling them, they have

809
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 3: to listen to those senators for two reasons. One because

810
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 3: they're senators and they're one of the checks and balances

811
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 3: on the administration. But two, they have to be elected.

812
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 3: In order for the administration to get done what they

813
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: want to do, they have to have, you know, a

814
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 3: party and leadership. So push back against the defunding, pushed

815
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 3: back against this next riff or reduction in force. I

816
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 3: guess that is what it's called when it happens, because

817
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 3: I think that and even preemptively doing that right now

818
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: with your senators and you know, other elected leaders I

819
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 3: think will help push back against. But those are two

820
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 3: that I'm pretty nervous about.

821
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say. You know, there's kind of like

822
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: an in between between the dismantle and divest, which is

823
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: decry right where it's they defund they dismantle, and then

824
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: they call foul on our public land management, and they say, see,

825
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: the federal government should be should not be managing these lands.

826
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 2: The federal government shouldn't have these places, because look at

827
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: what a lousy job they're doing managing your force. Look

828
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 2: at what a lowsy job they're doing dealing with traffic

829
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 2: in the national parks. Look at what a lousy job

830
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 2: they're doing on a B or C. All the while

831
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 2: the Congress is the ones who are controlling the purse strings.

832
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: Who are making it nearly impossible for these agencies to

833
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 2: do their job. So it's it's wild, it's a it's

834
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: an incredibly effective strategy probably, and it's it's a shame

835
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: that they can get away with this, because yes, they

836
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: are basically creating these circumstances themselves that allow themselves to

837
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 2: tell the story that gives them rationale to say transfer it,

838
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: sell it, get rid of it, or let us just

839
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: like you know, extract as much resources as we could

840
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 2: off of it because you know, the A, B and

841
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: C isn't working. So it's it's, uh, I don't know this.

842
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: This sounds hyperbolic maybe, but it's kind of malevolent, like

843
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: it's it's it's a pretty uh I'm not I'm sure

844
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 2: there's plenty of people who aren't, you know, in on

845
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: some kind of like deep dark plan to get rid

846
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 2: of our public lands. But there's a few people probably

847
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: there like, hey, this is how we're going to do it.

848
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: There's think tanks that have been writing about how to

849
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: do this for years, for decades, and some of the

850
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: people have positions of power influence. Now, so's it's not

851
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 2: something you know, I don't care if you are a

852
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 2: Republican or a Democrat or somewhere in between. If you

853
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: use these places to go on your elcons or your

854
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 2: deer hunts or trout fishing trips or whatever, this is

855
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: stuff that matters that we got to step outside of

856
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 2: our teams and just say, hey, this isn't the place

857
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: to be messing around.

858
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 3: You're totally right, and I do. I think it is systematic, right,

859
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: And I think that if you think about Project twenty

860
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 3: five or I don't know if you've seen Homesteading two

861
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 3: point zero, but it's all this is all about divesting

862
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: public lands. These are people written by like, you know,

863
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 3: William Perry Penley, who was Director of Bureau Plant Management

864
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 3: in the last Trump administration. Like, these are things that

865
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 3: have been talked about for a long time and I've

866
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 3: said it, you know, Center Mike Lee is not going anywhere,

867
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 3: and this affordable housing is just the latest kind of

868
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 3: piece like that he's talking about. But what he really

869
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 3: is going to be talking about soon is going to

870
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: be this, oh they're broken, let's, you know, you know,

871
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 3: solve them and privatize them. So no, you're totally right.

872
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to start using that word to cry.

873
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: I like it well done.

874
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: So of the you know, as we've been talking about,

875
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,240
Speaker 2: there's been all of this noise, all these different things

876
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: kind of clouding the waters, and this public land sale

877
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: definitely did that in a big way. We've been talking

878
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 2: about the kind of the defund divast or the defund, dismantle,

879
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: divest and and that kind of trajectory of things. But

880
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: you know, outside of that, or maybe expanding on that,

881
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: what are some of like the other, if any any

882
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: other specific actions that you expect we need to be

883
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: you know, starting to get educated on or start moving on,

884
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: because this funding stuff is kind of it's kind of

885
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: high level, it's kind of I don't I don't know

886
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: how to quite put the words to it. But when

887
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 2: we hear about funding, there's all these different budgets, as

888
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: you mentioned, there's the budget from the President and the

889
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: Congress puts together their budget, and there's all these many,

890
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 2: many move in parts. It's less tangible, I guess than

891
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: what I'm getting at the firings seem somewhat tangible, but

892
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 2: again maybe a little bit outside of I can't quite

893
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 2: draw a circle around who talked to for every one

894
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: of these issues or how to address every one of

895
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 2: these issues. Are there any other more tangible specific threats

896
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: outside of that that we can keep tabs on? I mean,

897
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: you mentioned bounder waters earlier. That's probably one because that's

898
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 2: back on the table in a different kind of way.

899
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: But are there any other specifics you want to make

900
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 2: sure we cover here?

901
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a good question. I mean I think

902
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: you know, within the budget, it's sure it gets like

903
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 3: it's it gets pretty complicated pretty quickly, and it kind

904
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 3: of feels like I think you were searching for a word.

905
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 3: Maybe that's like like it's not tangible, right, Like it's

906
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 3: hard to like put your arms around it. That said,

907
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 3: you know, there's also you know, there's pushes within the

908
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 3: budget to let's say, take away kind of the bird

909
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 3: banding program in this country, right, bird banding, especially on

910
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 3: waterfowls one of the ways that we count waterfowl, one

911
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 3: of the ways we see what kind of hunter take

912
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 3: is on waterfowl. And so that program goes away, it's

913
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 3: going to be a lot harder to count ducks and

914
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 3: a lot harder to set seasons on ducks. And so

915
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 3: I think as this budget kind of rolls out, I

916
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 3: think they'll be individual things that we can all point

917
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 3: to that are much more specific and tangible versus just

918
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 3: like kind of these large numbers and what does that

919
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 3: mean to these agencies? Right So, I think point that's

920
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 3: something to look at when you talk about boundary waters.

921
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 3: You know, you got Congressman Stauber's bill in the House

922
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 3: that's like basically, let's open it up and let's just

923
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 3: get this copper mind, you know done. Then you have

924
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 3: Senator Tina Smith's bill that's like, no, hold on, like

925
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 3: this is a special place, let's not you know, you know,

926
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 3: put a comprom sulfied mind, put a mile south. And

927
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 3: so those two are competing, they're in different chambers, one

928
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 3: to say hell no to and the other one to

929
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 3: say hell yes too. So I think those are some things.

930
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: I think we'll find more things like that. Like I

931
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 3: know that they're starting to be talk about what we're

932
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 3: going to study areas in particular. There's some conversations going

933
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 3: on around road those lands right now as well, And

934
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 3: so I think there'll be specific areas. You know, you

935
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 3: talked about the Ambler Road, Like we're not done with

936
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 3: that one either, you know. We let's talk about like

937
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 3: the Eisenbeck National Wildlife Refuge, which is up in Alaska too,

938
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 3: which is amazing place that they want to put a

939
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 3: road right to the middle of that. And that's actually

940
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 3: the portion they want to put it through is wilderness,

941
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 3: and so you do it there, you can kind of

942
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: do it anywhere. There's another kind of one of those ideas,

943
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: and so I think we'll have specific places, you know,

944
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 3: there'll be some positive things in like that too. You know,

945
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 3: there's been a bill that's been floating around for a

946
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 3: long time here in Montana called the Blackfoot Clearwater Conservation

947
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 3: Act that's basically been working with loggers and with snowmobilers,

948
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 3: with hikers, with hunters to come up with what the

949
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 3: landscape looks like and some places you're going to have,

950
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 3: you know, more timber development, which wasn't been a part

951
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: of this build but that's been in other bills. But

952
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 3: that's why the timber companies still support it. But it'll

953
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 3: be like new wilderness here in Montana, which would be

954
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 3: absolutely awesome and hasn't happened in decades. And I think

955
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 3: now having Senator Tester gone, there's much more of an

956
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 3: opportunity probably for this to happen. Even though he was

957
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 3: a champion. I think that there was others in this

958
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 3: state that didn't want him to get a win, and

959
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 3: so they were not supportive of that bill. But I

960
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: think these answer to your question is more directly, I

961
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 3: think there's gonna be these individual opportunities to get involved

962
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 3: in individual landscapes, which you know, in those landscapes will

963
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: mean something to those people on the ground, but obviously

964
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 3: some of these bigger places to all of us across

965
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 3: the country.

966
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also I think, kind of piggybacking off of that,

967
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: what I'm starting to learn is that even if I

968
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: am never going to go to one of these places,

969
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 2: or if I've yet to go to one of these places,

970
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 2: or if they are far from home, they oftentimes still

971
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: have like trickle down effects on the places that I

972
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 2: do visit or places that are close to my home,

973
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: because they set a precedent. Like you said, like, hey,

974
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 2: if we can if this reconciliation package can force through

975
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: drilling in a wildlife refuge it was created originally specifically

976
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: for wildlife and to preserve this area. If that place

977
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: can get opened up despite public opposition, that opens up

978
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: the door for many more of these things to happen.

979
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: Through a similar process, or whether it be the boundary

980
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: waters issue or Ambler road or things going on in

981
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 2: the Everglades, whatever it is. I think something I'm starting

982
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: to see is that every one of these things is

983
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 2: like a home waters or home land kind of issue,

984
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 2: because it will eventually impact me or you or us

985
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: in one way or another. And so at least I'm

986
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 2: finding that more and more. I'm trying to be educated

987
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: and doing something for as many of these things as

988
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: I can. It's same with the hunting rights. I mean,

989
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 2: we've talked about this in the past too, like if

990
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: we lose the right to hunt mountain lions in Colorado,

991
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 2: all that very well could impact you in Montana, or

992
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: me and Idaho or wherever down the line. So it's

993
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: I think the tiny silos that we used to live in,

994
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: like I'm a Michigan or I'm an Idaho and or

995
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 2: I'm a white tail hunter or whatever. I think, by

996
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: necessity we might need to start increasing the sphere of

997
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: of what we focus on and what we try to

998
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: help out on. Like I'm going to chip in on

999
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 2: this one today, even though it might not directly impact

1000
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: me tomorrow, because the next day or the next day,

1001
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: it's going to be me, and I sure hope that

1002
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: someone in Florida, or someone in Alaska or someone in

1003
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: you know, Washington will also chip in on that issue too.

1004
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 2: Does that is that something that you've thought all about?

1005
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 3: I mean, it totally resonates with me, Mark, and I

1006
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 3: think that you know, we're all in this together, and

1007
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 3: we just showed what happens when we can all work together,

1008
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 3: what kind of collective power we have. And so I

1009
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: think that precedent setting is one that is super important

1010
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 3: that we need to pay attention to that you know,

1011
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 3: it can happen over there, it could happen in my backyard.

1012
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 3: I think another piece is that clean air and clean

1013
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 3: water belongs to us. And like you know, wh I

1014
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 3: think about clean water in particular, seventy percent of our

1015
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: clean water starts on our public lands, and so that

1016
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 3: clean water whether you and you probably live in Arizona,

1017
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 3: it's probably even more important to you than maybe up

1018
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: in uh, you know, in Minnesota. But they're all connected

1019
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 3: at some level, right, and this water belongs to us all.

1020
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 3: So I think there's that piece. And then I think,

1021
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 3: you know, for those that don't, you know, like like

1022
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 3: think about that piece, like there's that tillion dollar one

1023
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 3: point two trillion dollar economic you know driver that's in

1024
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 3: this country. That should be something that we as all

1025
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 3: Americans should care about, right, that we have something that

1026
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 3: you know, contributes significant amounts of the economy, especially in

1027
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 3: rural America, especially in rural America, I think we should

1028
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 3: maintain that. And then the last one I guess is

1029
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 3: like why we should care about this stuff, man, is

1030
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 3: that I don't know about you, but when I've faced

1031
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 3: adversity in the woods, like I've learned something from it

1032
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 3: every single time. And sometimes you know that means like

1033
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: pack up and get the heck out of there, because

1034
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 3: that's the only probably decision. There are times you face

1035
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 3: that adversity and then you know, helps you with other things.

1036
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 3: And so they have places where my kids can go

1037
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 3: face adversity and learn from that, you know, like my

1038
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 3: daughter in particular, as she goes off to school next year,

1039
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 3: Like these are why we should be paying attention to this,

1040
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 3: whether it is you know, in your backyard or not,

1041
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 3: is because these places can provide all those things that

1042
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 3: we just talked about and some and if we take

1043
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 3: them away, they're never going to function the same way again, right,

1044
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 3: They never will function the same way again, so they

1045
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 3: matter to us all.

1046
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, so we really need to focus on this

1047
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 2: budget and staffing and management of our public lands now.

1048
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 2: Moving forward, there's going to be some specific location focused

1049
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 2: attacks that we need to be focusing on. There's been

1050
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 2: a lot of these kind of rule or regulation rollbacks

1051
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: that impact our public lands and waters, things like the

1052
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 2: road this rule being rescinded, et cetera. Long story short,

1053
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 2: there's going to be more action needed.

1054
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: Right.

1055
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: Our work is not done. The land sale pushback that

1056
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 2: we all contributed to, that was just the beginning. You

1057
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 2: have been involved in a lot of different campaigns over

1058
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 2: the years, whether it be prior to BHA or your

1059
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 2: time a top back hunter Hunters and Anglers or now

1060
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: with AHA American Hunters and Anglers. You've seen what doesn't work,

1061
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: You've seen what does work as far as building grassroots

1062
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: opposition or support for these various things. Can you talk

1063
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,759
Speaker 2: to me about some of the major takeaways you've had

1064
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 2: as far as what we as individuals can do or

1065
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: as members of an organization to move the needle on

1066
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: some of these issues that are already coming down the line,

1067
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 2: and that inevitably will what are some of the big

1068
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 2: like you, what's what's your theory of change land? What

1069
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: are the individual actions and largerly collective actions that really

1070
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: can help us moving forward when we when we're gonna

1071
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 2: need to do something.

1072
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 3: Huge question and thank you for this. I mean I'd

1073
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 3: be a little flip it and stay. First of all,

1074
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 3: he's like, stop bitching and start a revolution, right Like,

1075
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 3: I think there's like a lot of this armchair quarterbacks

1076
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 3: that are sitting around and are like, oh, I don't

1077
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 3: like this and I don't like that, and they don't

1078
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 3: ever do anything about it, right Like, You've got to

1079
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 3: get off the couch and do something about it. And

1080
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 3: so I think action taking is always again, we're going

1081
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 3: to lose some of these fights, but if you are

1082
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 3: not taking action, you are definitely going to lose, and

1083
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 3: you're not going to learn anything from being engaged in

1084
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 3: that fight either. And so I think that is like

1085
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 3: the fundamental one that I've probably learned over my twenty

1086
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 3: five years. It's just takes some action, right Like, it

1087
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 3: doesn't really matter exactly what that action is, but take

1088
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 3: an individual action. Part of that I think is really

1089
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 3: in the community building piece is talking to your friend circle,

1090
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 3: you know, like we all have friends that go for

1091
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 3: many different walks of life, and there are friends for

1092
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 3: many different reasons, right Like they may be you know,

1093
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 3: we may sit around on the soccer sidelines with them

1094
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 3: because our kids are playing, or we may you know,

1095
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 3: you know, actually hunt together. I mean, crazy thing that

1096
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,479
Speaker 3: some of us still hunt together. Right But I think

1097
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 3: that like all the people that you know and that

1098
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 3: are in your sphere, the more that we're talking to

1099
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 3: them about these issues how much they matter to us,

1100
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 3: and then asking them questions on you know, like you know,

1101
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 3: what do these places mean to you? Like that overall,

1102
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 3: I think question is really important. And part of what

1103
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 3: you're doing there is you're telling your own story and

1104
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 3: so that theory of change, like continue to tell your

1105
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 3: own story online in particular, it's this great venue to

1106
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 3: kind of you know, go out to your favorite you know,

1107
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 3: phishing access site and talk about how this was put

1108
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 3: to there by the Land of Water Conservation Fund. Right Like,

1109
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,840
Speaker 3: I think there's ways for you to for everybody to

1110
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 3: tell that story and so that it becomes you know,

1111
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: Land of Water Conservation Fund. Nobody used to really know

1112
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 3: what it was. And I was glad that you had

1113
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 3: me explain it today because sometimes I you know, I'm

1114
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 3: talking to people and they know exactly what it is

1115
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 3: now because we've been educating for over a decade, but

1116
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 3: there's still people that don't know that. And so the

1117
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 3: more that we tell that story, I think the better.

1118
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,800
Speaker 3: And then, you know, my theory of change, one of

1119
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 3: the things that I think really works is that we

1120
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 3: got to stop just trying to like be nice all

1121
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 3: the time and and and not hold people accountable. And

1122
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 3: I think accountability it can be thanks as well, but

1123
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 3: it definitely has to be spanks. And I think that

1124
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 3: ultimately that elected leaders in particular, they got to feel

1125
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 3: some heat. And when they feel some heat and that

1126
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 3: stove gets hot, then they back off and they try

1127
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 3: to figure out how to get out of that corner

1128
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 3: that we put him in. And Mike Lee, I think

1129
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 3: is a different cat. I think he's a totally different cat.

1130
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 3: Let's not let's put him in a different box. But

1131
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people that he's trying to

1132
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 3: convince to get on his team are still very much clay,

1133
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 3: and that we by pushing back against them, we're letting

1134
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 3: them know that we want them to do things in

1135
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 3: a certain way that they will listen to the people.

1136
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 3: And then when somebody does do something bad, we got

1137
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 3: to hold them accountable, and I think spank them publicly

1138
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 3: in particular. It's really the only kind of like backstop

1139
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 3: that we have. And that is like when I say

1140
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 3: theory of change, and I won't name names unless you

1141
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 3: want me to, but I've worked with a lot of

1142
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 3: different politicians that have only done the right thing once

1143
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 3: they've gotten spanked. Then once they do the right thing,

1144
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 3: then you celebrate them, you know, like they're the best

1145
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 3: champions in the world. But also don't say that's the

1146
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 3: last thing that we're ever going to say to you, right,

1147
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 3: Like it's this constant kind of training. I would say

1148
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 3: that you have to do with elected officials, and I

1149
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 3: think that negative piece it's hard to do sometimes and sometimes,

1150
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 3: you know, maybe even the world that we're living in,

1151
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 3: it feels like that's too much of the noise. So

1152
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 3: you have to do it in a tackful way. But

1153
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 3: I think holding our elected leaders, you know, accountable, is

1154
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 3: a great way to create change and long lasting change too.

1155
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 3: And then I think, you know, the last thing is

1156
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 3: like catching them when they're good. So again I'm talking

1157
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 3: about the spank kind of piece. But when they're doing

1158
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 3: something good, I think, really, you know, it's like when

1159
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 3: you're training a dog, they probably learn more from the

1160
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 3: treats that you give them than the shot caller that

1161
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 3: you give them, right, and and so when they do

1162
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 3: do something good, I think applauding them, but also letting

1163
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 3: them know that like this is not like with your dog.

1164
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 3: You don't you know, just get to get that one

1165
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 3: treat and then you're done being a good dog. You know,

1166
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 3: you got to behave that way so you can get

1167
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 3: those treets going forward. So that theory of change, I

1168
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 3: think I would say those things, and then I you know,

1169
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 3: besides that, the storytelling that has to happen from podcasts

1170
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 3: like this, from national leaders, I think just it continues

1171
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 3: to have to happen, and so that this power that

1172
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 3: we all just realize can be maintained and that we're

1173
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 3: ready for that next fight. And then I think we

1174
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 3: can think about things that are proactive as well. But

1175
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 3: right now we're in a pretty big defensive lope.

1176
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, So imagine a world land where we didn't have

1177
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 2: this pendulum swing. Imagine a world where it wasn't like, oh,

1178
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 2: all right, stuff's going all right, and then ah no,

1179
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: now we're crazy on defense, and then okay, now it's

1180
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: a little better in this front and then all announce

1181
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 2: on defense, or you know, as a hunter, my pendulum

1182
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: is like okay. Sometimes like oh shoot, everyone's trying to

1183
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: take hunting rights, everyone's trying to take away firearm rights,

1184
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 2: et cetera. And then then you get a new administration,

1185
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: it's like, oh geez, they're trying to take away public lands.

1186
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: Oh gis they're rolling back every protection on our wildlife

1187
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 2: or wild places, and there's this pendulum goes back and forth.

1188
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 2: It's like whiplash. How do we ever change that? Land's

1189
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 2: the what's the roadmap to someday getting to a point

1190
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 2: where it's like, all right, everyone is working to protect

1191
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 2: these things in one way or another. They've got different solutions,

1192
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 2: different ideas, but at least we're a little bit in

1193
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 2: closer alliance on folks on both sides of the aisle

1194
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 2: standing up for public lands, or folks on both sides

1195
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 2: of the aisle, you know, advocating for some some relatively

1196
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 2: long term sustainable solutions to keep our wildlife and wild

1197
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,479
Speaker 2: places around how do we get their land?

1198
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 3: In your view, we demand it, We demand it, the

1199
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 3: people demand it. And I think that you know, this

1200
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 3: last public lands fight is a great example, is that

1201
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 3: Center Mike Lee thought this all this pushback was like

1202
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 3: manufactured by the left. Like you know, he really was

1203
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,439
Speaker 3: out there. He was tweeting like making a question of money,

1204
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 3: yeah exactly, And I was like, I was like, you

1205
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 3: are not reading the room, man, Like it is across

1206
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 3: the entire spectrum. And so then we demanded it, and

1207
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 3: ultimately he had to listen. Now, there was phone calls

1208
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 3: being made to people about backing off of like you know,

1209
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 3: their soapboxes and like trying to be quieter about this stuff.

1210
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 3: And you know those people said, oh, you want me

1211
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 3: to be quieter, and then they leaned in even heavier, right,

1212
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 3: And so I think this we have to demand it

1213
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 3: and we have to like I think we have to

1214
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 3: like really try to have to find this like common

1215
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,439
Speaker 3: ground from the very beginning, right, like here's this public land,

1216
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 3: these public wildlife that are unique in this country that

1217
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 3: we all care about for the majority, right, like this

1218
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 3: is one thing that we can call less around, which

1219
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 3: we just showed. Can we start building like that base

1220
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 3: then that allows us so depends on doesn't do this,

1221
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 3: it just does little teeny ones right in between, because

1222
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 3: there's gonna be different ideas about management how much money

1223
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 3: we should be spending this part of the budget or another.

1224
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:11,959
Speaker 3: But as long as those things aren't way over here,

1225
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 3: that's on all three of the things you just talked about, right,

1226
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 3: And so you know when Senator Tester you know, and

1227
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 3: Senat Heinrich both in the Senate together, like where is

1228
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 3: like the push from Democrats to help help them, especially

1229
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 3: with gun right stuff right like and help help the

1230
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 3: other Democrats realize that that's like an issue that once

1231
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 3: goes way too far one way right, there can be

1232
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 3: a conversation potentially more in that middle or the same

1233
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 3: thing with like you know, hunter rights, like like how

1234
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 3: do we have these conversations more in here then the

1235
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 3: way over here and over here? Now it's we the

1236
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 3: people demand it, and like that's how we build you know,

1237
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 3: there's relationships that hopefully many of us as hunters, I've

1238
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 3: been trying to build them for twenty five years, but

1239
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 3: hopefully more felt that this last go around. But it's

1240
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 3: during this public lands fight when you're talking to other

1241
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 3: public lands users. What a great opportunity that was to

1242
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 3: like not talk about you know, like, man, you scare

1243
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 3: the Elko way with those mountain bikes, you know, when

1244
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 3: you're in a certain area at this certain time of year.

1245
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 3: It was like, No, we're talking about the fundamental thing

1246
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 3: that we all care about. We built relationships, and so

1247
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 3: if we continue to build relationships with people that don't

1248
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 3: necessarily recreate the same way that we do, or don't

1249
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 3: look the way that we do, or don't vote the

1250
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 3: same way we do, and then collectively do we demand it. Yeah,

1251
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 3: we can get in who we want.

1252
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you mentioned earlier about you know, demanding things,

1253
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 2: holding people accountable, not mincing We didn't say this, but

1254
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 2: I think something you were speaking too is like not

1255
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 2: mincing words. Sometimes. I've seen like a couple of different

1256
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 2: approaches to like advocacy organizations. There's there's one arm of

1257
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: our conservation world that is like we're gonna fly the

1258
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 2: red flag, we're gonna send the red alarm, we're gonna

1259
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 2: call a space a spade and call you out and

1260
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 2: X Y Z. And then there's another arm which is like, hey,

1261
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 2: we need to maintain communication channels with whoever's there, no

1262
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 2: matter what their policy is or no matter what administration

1263
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 2: they're in, because we're going to try to get some

1264
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: moderate things done and maintain communication. So because of that,

1265
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: we're going to be very conservative about, you know, how

1266
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 2: we say things, or conservative about calling folks out because

1267
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: we don't want to damage those communication channels or possible

1268
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 2: potential collaboration. And I personally can see the value in both.

1269
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 2: I would say that it seems like your new organization,

1270
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,919
Speaker 2: American Hunters and Anglers, as you just mentioned, takes more

1271
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 2: of the hey, we're going to call it out kind

1272
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 2: of approach. Can you can you just expand a little

1273
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: bit more on what your approaches with this organization in particular,

1274
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 2: So what are you guys doing, how are you going

1275
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: to do things? What makes your organization now different than

1276
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 2: BHA or things you've been a part of in the past,

1277
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 2: And and and then finally how can people learn more

1278
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 2: engage anything with what you guys are doing?

1279
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 3: Great? So I would like to start with that the analogy, right,

1280
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 3: like we're all going down this this river together, right,

1281
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 3: we have this destination in mind which is carried on

1282
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 3: this culturvation legacy that was gifted to us. Within that river,

1283
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 3: there's many different boats that have different rolls like on

1284
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 3: that river, right, and so you know, some are gonna

1285
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 3: be utilized for, like you say, to kind of like

1286
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 3: maintain relationships, have these conversations behind closed doors. Others are

1287
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 3: going to make some noise on the outside. And that's

1288
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 3: really what American Hunters and Anglers are trying to do.

1289
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 3: Said another way, we're going to break some eggs, and

1290
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 3: so others can make some omeless right, And so I

1291
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 3: think that sometimes that you know, there's things that need

1292
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 3: to be said, calling it like we see it, and

1293
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 3: so that others can have those conversations behind those closed

1294
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 3: doors and be like, man, that created quite a bit

1295
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 3: of noise for you on the outside. Now, let's help

1296
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 3: you get out of that corner. And so American Hunters

1297
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 3: and Anglers we don't we're we're five on one C

1298
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 3: four which a little bit nerdy, but you know, BHA

1299
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 3: try to unlimited TIERCP majority of critter organizations or sports

1300
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 3: organized or five on one C threes. That's their designation

1301
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 3: as in the irs. Within that they can only lobby

1302
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 3: twenty percent of the time, which means they can only

1303
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 3: you know, report about what's going on and call you

1304
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 3: the action. That doesn't even mean about you know, individuals

1305
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 3: out in Washington, DC calling the people to action twenty

1306
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 3: percent of their time. So if you have a million bucks,

1307
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 3: that's two hundred thousand dollars. So they're limited there, and

1308
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 3: they also can't get involved in elections, and that's you know,

1309
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 3: that's like, that's a hard hard line for nonprofits and

1310
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 3: a C three status CE four unlimited lobbying, which again

1311
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 3: like I'm not going out to d C and punting

1312
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 3: the doors every single day. I'm not a registered lobbyist.

1313
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 3: But what we can do in American hundred anglers is

1314
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 3: we can report the news on what's going on and

1315
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 3: then call people to action every single day without worry

1316
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 3: about getting up against that cap. Second piece of that

1317
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 3: is so we can't get involved in elections and demand

1318
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,959
Speaker 3: from our elected leaders when they're most vulnerable. I would

1319
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 3: say to the most spongeable vulnerable might be the wrong

1320
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 3: way to say it. They're the most spongeable and trying

1321
01:04:57,560 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 3: to like get them in a place where they commit

1322
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 3: to one thing or another right and that's on the

1323
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 3: campaign trail. And so that's really what we're going to

1324
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,439
Speaker 3: be doing We do that you know, on media, so

1325
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 3: social media, we're super heavy on social media, but we're

1326
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 3: also doing that with traditional media. So that's like stuff

1327
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 3: in print I would say New York Times, Washington Post,

1328
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 3: National Public Radio, that kind of stuff traditional press releases.

1329
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 3: But like we are, we're not we're not gonna be

1330
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 3: a membership organization. We're not going to be a corporate

1331
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 3: partner organization. We're not going to be you know, necessarily

1332
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 3: of volunteers. All across the country. People want to volunteer.

1333
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 3: They can you know, cut videos for us and like

1334
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 3: we can help get those you know up online, or

1335
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 3: we can you know, help them and get engaged and

1336
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 3: volunteer their time by calling, sending an email, or going

1337
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 3: on social media and addressing people. So American Hunters and

1338
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 3: Anglers in short, we're here to like let people know

1339
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 3: what's going on. When there is some bad actors, we're

1340
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 3: gonna punish them and so that others can kind of

1341
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 3: have those conversations about how they figure out, you know,

1342
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 3: a policy it's a little bit different than what they

1343
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 3: put forward in the first place.

1344
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that analogy. That makes a lot

1345
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 2: of sense. There's a lot of different roles to play,

1346
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 2: and I can see the need for you know, the

1347
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 2: behind the doors, the in front of the doors, the

1348
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 2: eggs and the omelets and and everything in between. Whatever

1349
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 2: it takes to to get a couple of these battles

1350
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,439
Speaker 2: one and pointing things in the right direction, I think

1351
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 2: is his his good news as far as I'm concerned. So, Land,

1352
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 2: when you get up in the morning and you're trying

1353
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,960
Speaker 2: to rally the energy for the day or for the

1354
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 2: work week or whatever it is, what are you What

1355
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 2: are you thinking about? What keeps you coming back to

1356
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 2: this set of issues, what keeps coming, what keeps you

1357
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 2: coming back to this cause? And finally, what would you

1358
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 2: offer to folks as we send people off today as

1359
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 2: they consider kind of taking up the same cause and

1360
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 2: getting engaged themselves.

1361
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 3: So it probably depends on the day. This morning, I

1362
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 3: woke up remembering our day that we had yesterday. So

1363
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 3: we had this day yesterday down the Bitterroot, on the

1364
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 3: Bitterroot National Forests. We went down there to pick huckleberries.

1365
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 3: And the amount of people that were out on a

1366
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 3: Sunday picking huggle berries, and I'm talking like three year

1367
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 3: olds to like ninety year olds been built around these

1368
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 3: little tiny bushes picking up these little purple like berries.

1369
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 3: We call them purple gold, and they're out right now,

1370
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 3: and you know, the kids are eating them. They're hardly

1371
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 3: you know, putting any in the bucket to have later

1372
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 3: with ice cream or you know, I cooked some for

1373
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,120
Speaker 3: my kids this morning on pancakes. But like seeing that

1374
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 3: and seeing the like the people that were out there,

1375
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 3: and nobody's like that's a Democrat, that's a Republican or

1376
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 3: you know, like you know, like how much money do

1377
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 3: you have in your bank account? Like like everybody's on the

1378
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 3: same playing field, because you got to find the berries

1379
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:51,840
Speaker 3: and then you got to pick them, like there's no

1380
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 3: way o there to get them, right. So I think

1381
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 3: that I was reminded that this morning. And then yesterday

1382
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 3: we also found this like tributary to this creek that

1383
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 3: we were on that has like this natural like water

1384
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 3: slide on it, and and so it's like these slate

1385
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,479
Speaker 3: rocks that have been turned on their sides. The water

1386
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 3: goes over the top of them, and you gotta be

1387
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 3: a little bit careful, but you know, this time of year,

1388
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 3: the water's not so high, and so you can get

1389
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 3: on those and watching my kids watching this exchange student

1390
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 3: that we have from Spain right now, the pure joy

1391
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 3: that they have like going down this slide and like

1392
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 3: and so when I woke up this morning, I mean,

1393
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:26,719
Speaker 3: I I you know, I think it's Edward Abway's quote.

1394
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, be a part time advocate, you

1395
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 3: got to get out there and touch and feel it, right. Yeah,

1396
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 3: well I went out and touch and feel it yesterday.

1397
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 3: And oh my god, am I having fired up about

1398
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,639
Speaker 3: like just making sure that my kids, that your kids

1399
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 3: have something to fight for, right like all our jobs are.

1400
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 3: It's like I think it's you know, Doug d Doug

1401
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 3: Durran kind of it's our time kind of right like

1402
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 3: we're here right now, Like what are we going to

1403
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:51,680
Speaker 3: do about it? And so that's what fires me up.

1404
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,599
Speaker 3: And then I think for anybody you know that's listening

1405
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,679
Speaker 3: to this that is a little nervous about gaining engaged,

1406
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 3: I get it, Like I get it. Sometimes it's scary,

1407
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 3: but hopefully listening to this podcast and watching others take action,

1408
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 3: that's all it is is about taking action, whatever that is,

1409
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 3: you know. And I think that you can do that

1410
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,880
Speaker 3: again by picking up the phone, sending an email, doing

1411
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 3: your own social posts. There's a woman that created these

1412
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 3: bumper stickers that were super rad. I saw somebody that

1413
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 3: did a remake of this land is Your Land the

1414
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 3: other day. You know, I think there's like whatever talent

1415
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 3: that you bring, maybe you're like a CPA and you

1416
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 3: think I don't really you know, know what to do

1417
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,719
Speaker 3: about conservation. I guarantee you that every single volunteer conservation

1418
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 3: organization in this country is looking for a CPA to

1419
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 3: help them with the posts right now and make them

1420
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 3: straight on their books. And so there's different talents that

1421
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,640
Speaker 3: you can bring. It doesn't have to be, you know,

1422
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 3: just this forward facing, you know, hard hitting conservation stuff.

1423
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 3: So I would lead people with that is like take

1424
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 3: individual action and know that nothing is ever given to

1425
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 3: in this in this country, which is pretty awesome in

1426
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 3: a lot of ways. We have to go get it

1427
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 3: ourselves and we have to earn it. And I think

1428
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 3: that's the very position we're in right now, the best

1429
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 3: position we've always been in, and the only reason we're

1430
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 3: having this conversation having right now is because of those

1431
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:02,640
Speaker 3: people that became before us.

1432
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 2: So yeah, man, right on land, Well, I will speak

1433
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 2: for many, many, many folks out there who would tell

1434
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,639
Speaker 2: you thank you for everything you've done over the years

1435
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 2: in these many different iterations of our fights for public

1436
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 2: lands and waters and wildlife. You've been a staunch advocate

1437
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 2: for a long time, and I appreciate everything you've done

1438
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 2: in the past. I appreciate what you're working on right

1439
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 2: now and what I'm sure is yet to come. And

1440
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 2: let's have another one of these chats down the line

1441
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 2: on the Smith River and let's have some good news

1442
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 2: to talk about. How about that?

1443
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 3: I love it. I love it, and Mark, thank you

1444
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 3: for the accolades. But I would be remiss not to

1445
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 3: push that right back on you, and I think your

1446
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 3: voice and the way you're using it, thank you for

1447
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 3: continuing to be an advocate for all things wild in particular,

1448
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 3: but the wild, public lands, public waters, and public wild

1449
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 3: affe in this country because there's no other place like

1450
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,719
Speaker 3: on the planet. And you're using your venue, your I guess,

1451
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 3: your fully pulpit to use the Roosevelt Squares in such

1452
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 3: a great way. So thank you. Thank you as well.

1453
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 2: Last thing website you are where can folks go to

1454
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 2: learn more about AHA and what you got going on.

1455
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 3: So love this website. No landgrab dot com. Pretty easy

1456
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:16,799
Speaker 3: to remember. And then on the Insta it's just America

1457
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 3: Hunters Anglers No, and in there you can find us

1458
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 3: on the Instagram, so we'll update every single day on Instagram.

1459
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 3: Then you can sign up for our newsletter Slash just

1460
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 3: that kind of information on our website. Perfect No land

1461
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 3: grab dot com.

1462
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 2: Can't forget that one. All right, let's talk against.

1463
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 3: It, all right? Sounds good, Mark, Thank you, all right.

1464
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 2: Thank you all for joining me. I hope you learned

1465
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 2: something today. I hope you were inspired to continue taking action,

1466
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:47,120
Speaker 2: and I hope you will join me in the You know,

1467
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:49,759
Speaker 2: as land said, this this battle that will never quite

1468
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 2: end as we continue to stand up for our wild places,

1469
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 2: our wildlife, our rights and opportunities to hunt and fish,

1470
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 2: our public lands, waters, and so much more.

1471
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 3: So.

1472
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:06,920
Speaker 2: Until next time, thank you, and stay wired to hunt,