1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to Casual Friday. 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry, I'm Tracey V. Wilson. This Casual Friday 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: is a little bit of a mix. It doesn't feel 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: entirely casual because on the one hand, we're talking about 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: architecture and historical changes to buildings, and on the other 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about our nation's very deep roots in the 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: institution of slavery, which is not so casual, and it's 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: an important topic. Um, so we'll cover the first part first. 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: This was just gonna be gardens, I really think so. 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: The way our show works is a lot of times 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: one of us will kind of clue the other end 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: about what we're working on, just like to make sure 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: we're not accidentally working on the same thing, and then 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: like time passes and uh and we get the outline. 16 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: And then sometimes there are updates in the process of 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: like when one of us finds something that's particularly funny 18 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: or infuriating or whatever. And I feel like this is 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: the first time in all of these years when you've 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: told me this like the topic at the start, and 21 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: by the end it's been basically a whole different episode 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: than where it started out. Yeah, I mean I wanted 23 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: to talk about the White House gardens because of this 24 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: announced change to the Rose Garden and how much that 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: was disconcerting people. Just like I said at the top 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: of the first episode, is a way to reassure everyone, 27 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: like changes part of this this space and like you 28 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: you can feel however you want to feel about whoever 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: is holding office at any given time when they make changes. 30 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: But honestly, it was designed from the beginning by George 31 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: Washington to be a place that would have change. Um, 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: I'm suddenly feeling very much the way that people feel 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: when Disney changes things in Disney Parks. And then there's 34 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: a big argument about how Walt always wanted everything to 35 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: be changing and whether or not we're dishonoring that. Um. 36 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: Very different though, because it is our nation's history, so um, 37 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: it was gonna be just that. And then what really 38 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: got me excited was when I discovered those pictures of 39 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: the White House being taken down to the studs in 40 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, and I was like, how did I 41 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: not know this? Yeah? Uh, not that it was just 42 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: like a renovation. They didn't just like strip, a room, 43 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: the whole thing was taken down to nothing. Yeah. I 44 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: have trouble conceiving of this because like I had a 45 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: home that had to be gutted down to the studs 46 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: after a water pipe broken, a whole ordeal happened, And 47 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: just being inside that space, which was a very modest, 48 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: little one bathroom, three bedroom branch house, just like just 49 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: being in that space gutted down to the studs was 50 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: weirdly mind bending. It's super weird, Like the White House 51 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: down to the studs. What does that even work? Yeah, 52 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: it's super duper weird. Um, it just occurred to me. 53 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:05,839 Speaker 1: I have never asked you if you have spent any 54 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: time in the White House. Uh, not since I was 55 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 1: a child. So listeners may remember some time back we 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: did an episode about the Declaration of Sentiments where we 57 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: did an interview there to talk about this lost document 58 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: at their invite, and so I got to spend some 59 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: time in the White House and like see the press 60 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: room and be in some of their conference rooms and 61 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: the one I had done tours before. But the one 62 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: takeaway I had from being in those spaces was how 63 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: much tinier they were than I ever thought they were 64 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: going to be um, which then makes this really really 65 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: interesting because some looking at at all completely gutted, it 66 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: just looks like a giant, cavernous, massive structure, and I'm like, oh, 67 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: but what's this partition that feels quite small in many ways, 68 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: which is just fascinating. Um. So that was how I 69 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: got really interested in the architet sexture and how it 70 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: had shifted, and especially once I discovered that the buttressing 71 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: plus the attic shift is really what caused almost I 72 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: mean like very serious discussions of like should we condemn 73 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: this building and move on? Um, which is pretty interesting 74 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: to me. But then, of course, as I said, UM, 75 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: when you start to look at at really what was 76 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: driving a lot of the the construction in terms of 77 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: labor force, you have to acknowledge that this was, as 78 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: Mischelle Obama said, like a house built by slaves. There 79 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: is another interesting aspect to this story that came up 80 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: in the discussion in an article that I was reading 81 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: about John Quincy Adams and that whole sort of tricky, 82 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: nuanced examination of his his connection to enslavement and having 83 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: enslaved people living in his house. And one of the 84 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: things that was interesting that I not thought about and 85 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: it does not in any way, let me be super 86 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: duper clear, excuse the practice of using enslaved labor. But 87 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: one thing that came up was UM the fact that 88 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: at this point the president had to pay out of 89 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: pocket for all staff. It was not like a federal 90 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: budget line. Uh. And even now anything personal or private 91 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: that happens in the White House, like if they have 92 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: a birthday party for a child that is not a 93 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: public event, that they pay that out of pocket, but 94 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: their staff allowance now where there wasn't before UM And 95 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: then in some ways there was just not a way 96 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: for this to work again because it was so systematic 97 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: in a way where there were not people that were 98 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: enslaved providing some of that labor. Just from a financial perspective, again, 99 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: that gets into some ugly messy territory. There is an 100 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: interesting part of this, which is that the Adams is 101 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: John and Abigail. We're always trying to hire staff, and 102 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: apparently they had a really hard time hiring staff that 103 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: could stay and we're good, which some people point to 104 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: as of course because most of the people that were 105 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: being used as domestic servants at this time, we're enslave 106 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: labor who were forced to stay in their positions, whereas 107 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: once you introduce people that are just legitimately hired in, 108 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: they don't have to if they don't want to, and 109 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: they will often take off. They don't have the same 110 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: level of required attendance. Uh So that was just an 111 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: interesting aspect of it. Anyway. The White House, yes, it 112 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: is iconic, but it is not sacred. Can we have 113 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: a Hamilton digression it's related to so, first of all, 114 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: before anybody sends angry emails, I love Hamilton's deeply um. 115 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: But one of the things that's like my pet peeves 116 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: about it is the whole saga related to the Residents 117 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: Act that we talked about in this episode and the 118 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: negotiation behind the scenes between Alexander Hamilton's Thomas Jefferson and 119 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: James Madison. Um. And there's a whole song about it 120 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: sung by Aaron Burr about how there's no one else 121 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: in the room when it happened. There were definitely other 122 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: people in the room where it happened. Thomas Jefferson planned 123 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: this dinner. It is almost impossible that during that dinner, 124 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: in these negotiations, that there were not enslaved people serving 125 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: the food. And basically either in the room or immediately nearby, 126 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: waiting to be needed. And like one of the criticisms 127 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: that has come around about Hamilton's since it was it 128 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: first came out was that it kind of glosses over 129 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: slavery in a lot of ways, Like there are some 130 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: specific mentions to slavery, but like this is one of 131 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: the ways, Like that dinner was happening, uh, you know, 132 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: at a place that had been I can't remember if 133 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: it was Jefferson's home or if it was a place 134 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: that he had arranged, but like Jefferson was a person 135 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: that coordinated the whole thing, there absolutely would have been 136 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: enslaved people involved with that whole situation. The Amber was 137 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: thinking about, Yeah, it's interesting, right, that brings up the 138 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: point of like if those people had opportunity to speak 139 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: out about the things they had seen and we're part 140 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: of in some cases, like what would our founding fathers 141 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: look like? And in fact, I think that is a 142 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: big part of what drove George Washington to um so 143 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: actively pursue on a judge because she later did, like 144 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: I said, gave statements later in her life about what 145 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: it had been like to to be in the president's 146 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: home of course he was not in what became the 147 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: White House, which there's a whole other thing I'm gonna 148 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: get you in a moment there um where she talks 149 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: about like all the carousing and gambling and like partying 150 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: that went on there, and I'm sure that is not 151 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: something that an but he wanted to be a matter 152 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: of public record, which may have been what drove him 153 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: to be so so insistent that she be tricked into 154 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: coming back. I know that didn't work out. That is 155 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: another thing that comes up a lot. I have noticed 156 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: in the way people frame discussions, even of slavery as 157 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: it relates to the Founding Fathers. They start by talking 158 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: about Thomas Jefferson because they frame it as the first 159 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: president to have enslaved people at the President's mansion, which 160 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: is technically correct if we're talking about that one house, 161 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: But the Washington's definitely had enslaved, right, they just never 162 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: moved into that space. So that, Um, that's one of 163 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: those things that I kept finding over and over and 164 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, m President's household still Washington, you guys, 165 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: you can't gloss pass that one. We mentioned in the 166 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: episode that there was an episode about own a judge 167 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: on the podcast Uncivil, now that I have actually searched 168 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: that there is indeed we were that we were we 169 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: were talking about the correct podcast. Um, that episode of 170 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: Uncivil is called the Fugitive and it's from November nine. Again, 171 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: I have not really listened to it to remember whether 172 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: that was when the show had an explicit tag, because 173 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: I think they dropped their explicit tag and made the 174 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: show language cleaner during its run, cleaner in terms of 175 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts labeling of episodes. I'm not making a value 176 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: judgment about how people right here, yeah yeah, um yeah. Anyway, 177 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: So for all of you that stuck it out through 178 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: all of this discussion, some of which is uncomfortable, thank 179 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: you for listening. And I hope that you know it 180 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: continues to feed our our knowledge of really like the 181 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: reality of our nation's history, because if we're not acknowledging 182 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: all of that stuff, we're really not moving forward in 183 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: any kind of meaningful way in my opinion. So anyway, 184 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: Happy Friday. I feel so guilty ending on such a 185 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: downer note as the weekend is coming in, but um, 186 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, knowledge is power, so I think of it 187 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: that way. Uh, do you have anything else to add 188 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: to I, don't and don't. All right, then I'm gonna 189 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: go roll into my weekend. Stuff you missed in History 190 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: Class is a production of I heart Radio. For more 191 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 192 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.