WEBVTT - #437 Packers Unscripted: After further review 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:21.000 Hi, everybody, Welcome to Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.439 I am Mike Spofford, sitting next to my trusted colleague 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.640 West Hodcoits were coming to you here from our studios 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.240 at lambeau Field West. The Packers are too. And Oh, 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:35.159 as we sit here on Tuesday, two days after sixteen 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.640 victory over the Minnesota Vikings, some things yet to review 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.720 from that game, and as we promised on yesterday's show, 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.839 we have to get to some of these controversies. But 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.360 I want to start out with a couple of things 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.720 from Matt Lafleur's Monday afternoon press conference in which he 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.920 reviewed some of the key moments from the game, and 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.640 one of those being something we didn't really touch on, 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.320 and yesterday's show, which was that at first down that 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.880 sealed the game, the play action bootleg to the left 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.320 pass from Aaron Rodgers to Davante Adams. Now, these are 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:13.200 two obviously all pro Pro Bowl caliber players executing a 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.600 play in crunch time. But it's almost as though we 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.520 took for granted the how easy they made it look 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:24.520 on what was what Matt Lafleur explained, was an incredibly 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.959 difficult play to execute. Because of the pressure from Anthony Barr. 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.199 I believe it was who was right in uh, Aaron 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.560 Rodgers face, he's rolling to his leap. I just, uh, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.319 you know, it was only a seven yard completion, but 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.560 it might have been from an execution standpoint, the most 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.000 impressive play of the game. And you take a chance, Mike, 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.000 and when you're in a four minute offense, you take 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.680 a chance every time you throw the football. I mean, 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.040 you want to be able to keep the clock running 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.520 no matter what's happening. And in that particular instance, I 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:56.400 just thought it was such a well done play in 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.640 that it was a high percentage throw, but yet what 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.120 he had to do to be able to get out 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.920 there and find his receiver, because I mean, how many 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.320 times do we see it? Actually, you could even go 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.320 back to the week before against Chicago where the Packers 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.560 I believe, tried to throw it to MVS ended up 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:15.880 falling down and completion clock stops. So for Rogers to 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.600 come back in, you know, have the kind of sequencing 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.200 that they did get the thirteen yard game from Aaron Jones. 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:24.320 You get them thinking more and more. You had the 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:26.919 four yard carry. Okay, now they're looking at the run 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.040 now they're cued into the run. They want to stop 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.639 the run. Well, then you pull the you know, the 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.760 rug from underneath them and and find Davante Adams. I 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.239 wrote about it in the game notes too. I mean, 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.160 Adams was so consistent in this game. Three of the 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:43.679 five third downs converted were courtesy of him. But then 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.720 to make that catch it was second and six. It 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.960 was only seven yards, but those are the type of 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:51.880 plays you have to make if you're going to close 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.720 out opponents, especially within the division. The Packers accomplished that, 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:57.720 and I give Matt Lafleur a lot of credit for 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.919 that call there too, because Eviosuly the conservative, the easy 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:03.960 thing to do is to just run the ball, just 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.600 try to get that next first down, make the Vikings 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.520 use their time outs all that, not risk the incomplete pass. 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.239 And he said, hey, I've got confidence in my guys 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.799 out there. I'm gonna be aggressive when I have confidence 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.760 in them. And yet he had confidence despite the fact 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.280 that until that final drive, the Packers had had only 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:25.600 four first downs in the second half, and when they 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.520 called for a pass play in a similar second down 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.440 situation late in the game in Chicago, it wasn't complete. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.960 It stopped the clock. The Bears did have an extra 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.440 time out then when the Packers had to pump the 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.040 ball back to them when they couldn't close it out 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.920 on offense. So his confidence was there. He went, He 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.240 had the courage of his convictions that the play action 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.640 there was the right call and it got the Packers 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.440 of victory. Yeah, and it's also trusting your quarterback in 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.840 that instance too, to make sure that you get the 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:55.800 playoff and you have it play out the way you 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.600 wanted to, because that is that's a difficult front. It's 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.840 not like you're doing play action at inst a unit 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.920 that can't get home with, you know, a four man rush. 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:05.720 The Vikings very well can do that, and they have 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.880 a bunch of guys that played discipline and fundamentally sound football. 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.640 That's how they've consistently been among the NFL's best every year. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.599 But Rogers made the correct play on it in Davante Adams, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.960 to his credit, knew exactly where the sticks were to 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:20.640 be able to get the first down and keep that 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.320 drive moving. It's really interesting because how often do you 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:24.839 see it's not even just the NFL. You go to 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.159 college football, all these different levels teams that struggle to 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.040 execute the four minute offense, and you know, they end 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:33.560 up giving the opposition a chance to get the ball 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:35.440 back because the reality is, if you do have your 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.560 time alt's left, you know, you know, you can take 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.279 eight seconds off the clock if it doesn't go right. 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.360 So from that perspective, I just thought that it was 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.320 a perfect embodiment of what the Packers were good at 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.839 in that game, and that Aaron Jones was their workhorse, 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.560 bell cow back hundred sixteen rushing yards, Davante Adams at 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.719 the hundred and six receiving yards, and the twenty five 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.440 yard defensive pass reference penalty that he drew. That was 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:02.800 the go to, the one to punch for Aaron Rodgers 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.760 in that day. In that combination is what helped him 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.080 seal the victory. Yeah. Well, the other thing that I 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:11.360 thought was a really interesting nugget from La Fleur's press conferences. 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.800 He talked about the decision that he made after the 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.680 forty five yard touchdown pasted its Stefon Diggs for the Vikings. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.120 It's twenty one to sixteen, but Diggs gets flagged for 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.760 unsportsmanlike conduct for removing his helmet on the field after 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.600 the touchdown. Catch, so it's a fifteen yard penalty personal 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.919 file packers have the choice of either applying that penalty 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.599 on the p A T or on the ensuing kickoff. Now, 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:38.880 nine times out of ten, you're going to take that 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.400 on the kickoff, make them kick off from the twenty 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.520 yard line, and you hope to get better field position 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.480 and your next possession. But Matt Lafleur saw that after 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.560 the touchdown, the Vikings were leaving their offensive personnel on 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.160 the field, and he's like, oh, they want to go 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.320 for two to get to one to eighteen, get within 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.400 three points. In my opinion, maybe a little early to 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.920 be playing, you know, those points scenario games, but it 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:03.680 was a low scoring game. It had turned into a 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.640 little bit of a defensive battle by that point, so 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.120 I can understand the strategy. But because he saw that 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.520 the Vikings were going to go for two, he elected 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.919 to enforce the penalty on the p A T. Which essentially, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.480 then if the Vikings still wanted to go for two, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.520 they'd have to run that play from the seventeen yard 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:23.960 line to get into the end zone. Instead, they just 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.080 took the fifteen yards from the fifteen back to the thirty, 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.200 made it a forty eight yard single extra point try 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.800 with the kick, which then the Packers blocked. But regardless, 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.039 even if the Packers don't block that, the decision to 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.239 take the penalty where he did it prevented the Vikings 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.480 from getting within a field goal even if they make 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.920 the extra Yeah. I thought it was an exceptional call 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:47.640 by Matt Lafleur in that instance. And the other thing 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.120 is too He's not going to say this, but I 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:50.960 will say it. I mean, Dan Bailey had missed from 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.120 forty seven yards earlier in that con Absolutely, yeah, you're 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:58.159 putting back a kicker that, while historically accurate, only made 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:00.520 of his kicks last year and already had missed one 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.839 in the ball game. So everything screamed that was the 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.080 right call. I also got to give credit to Mike 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.760 Zimmer too for potentially trying to get a little savvy 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.680 there and maybe going, you know, allowing his his offense 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.120 to try to get the two point conversion because they 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.200 just had the forty five yard touchdown. That could really 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.720 be a backbreaker for the Packers if you come go 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.720 back and you give up the forty five yard explosive 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.720 and then you give up the two yard two point conversion. Instead, 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.080 the momentum shifts back to Green Bay. I talked about 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.320 it on yesterday's show with my conversation with Tony Brown. 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:34.360 I mean, that was an opportunity for my Minnesota really 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.600 to just grab everything and just kind of get everything 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:39.360 moving in their way, you know, get the wind in 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.920 their sales. And then as it turned out, and the 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.120 packers kind of reduced the gusts a little bit and 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.120 we're able to you know, mount the final stop that 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.840 they needed to win that ball game. Well, certainly stefon 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.680 Dig's emotions leading up to that moment and his his 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.240 frustrations in essence leading up to that moment, because it 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.200 turned out that was the only past he caught on 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:01.920 the day, was the already five yard or for the touchdown. 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:03.760 It got the best of him there, and it did 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.000 cost the Vikings because that was that was a big penalty. 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:08.640 But that leads me to what I want to talk 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.360 about here as we get into some of these some 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.200 of these gray areas, controversial calls, whatever you want to 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.640 call them, And we'll start with what happened with Digs, 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.320 which is what I think um was part of his 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.160 frustration that had been building during the game the offensive 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:26.440 past interference upon replay review that took away his short 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:31.800 touchdown pass in the second quarter. Um first time, you know, 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:33.679 it only took a couple of weeks. You knew what 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.280 was going to happen. But the first time that the 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:40.880 new rule of past interference being subject to review ends 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:45.679 up taking away a touchdown because scoring plays are automatically reviewed, 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:47.640 so once somebody gets in the end zone, they look 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.320 at it. They're looking at everything, and they said in 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:56.400 in the review command center in New York that Dalvin 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:00.959 Cook was guilty of offensive past interference. Clear Darnelle Savage 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.079 out of the way as Stefon Diggs caught the little 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:07.040 pass on the crossing route. Vikings were not happy. I 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.440 wouldn't expect them to be happy. But when you look 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.280 at what happened on the film was I looked at 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.600 it pretty closely yesterday for the first time. I didn't 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.160 really see it all that closely on Sunday. But it's 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.440 a legitimate call. It sort of reminds me a little 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.280 bit about when you you know, like introduced an evasive 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.400 species to a climate. This wasn't the reason why the 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.120 NFL created this OPR review rule, but It's one of 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.880 the sort of the byproducts of it is now these 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.120 pick plays are going to be under greater scrutiny. It's 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.760 an inevitable consequence of changing a rule, changing such a 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.520 significant rule. Yeah, and I to be honest with you, 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.800 I kind of like it. And I understand there was 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:44.640 some pundits out there. I was watching some of the 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.839 shows that hated this. But the thing I like about 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.360 it is you could argue the pick play is the 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.760 most difficult thing to officiate in the National Football League. 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:57.280 I would agree with you. It is virtually impossible to 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.840 be able to keep your eyes, especially when offenses go 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.679 spread where you've got two receivers on each side and 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.360 they're doing their crossing patterns, and when an offense is 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.240 close to the goal line where where both sides of 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.040 the ball everything is compacted. There are so many bodies 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.400 and you know it's it's not you're not in the 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.960 middle of the field where it's already difficult to knowl Yeah. 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.000 So in in you know, these are become so commonplace 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.560 and in a bang, big environment, it's really been difficult 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.800 for officials to call those plays in real time. Tremont Williams, 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.120 I talked about this on yesterday show, but Tremont Williams 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.440 said afterwards, you know, historically that's been something that just 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.960 hasn't gotten called, and it's just been something where the 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.120 defenses kind of has to bear its teeth and just 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.760 move on because they know they're not going to get that. Well, 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.440 this was a shift a little bit, and to be 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.920 honest with you, I feel like this was There's been 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:45.760 a lot We're gonna talk about a lot of controversies 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:47.760 coming up here, but this is I think an actual 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.360 positive that's come out of this review is that now 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.360 it's allowing the eye in the sky to look at 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.920 these plays as opposed to these referees having to make 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.360 judgment calls in the instant a flick of a pass, 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.840 a moment in time, uh, quick bat of the eye 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.040 and you have to make a judgment call. I do 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.720 actually like potentially what this could do in terms of 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.440 making offenses reconsider, you know, running those type of plays, 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.120 and potentially the ramifications of it. Because the other thing 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.520 is too it backed up the Vikings ten yards and 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:19.600 they weren't able to get anywhere near that goal line 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.240 after that. Right, the call cost them four points because 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:24.040 they ended up kicking a field goal there at the 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.280 end towards the end of the first half, as opposed 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.000 to getting a touch on. I'm with you. I I 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:33.480 agree with everything you said, because they are extremely difficult 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.760 to officiate, and it's always it's felt for years to me, 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.640 whether I'm watching the Patriots and Tom Brady or even 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:42.480 some of the things the Packers have done over the 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.960 years with with Randall Cobb and and um James Jones 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.000 and guys like that, running those rub routes and pick 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.320 plays and stuff like that. It's just it's always felt 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.319 like it's so unfair to the defense, frankly. And yes, 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.360 there are rules. If it happens within one yard of 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:01.000 the line of scrimmage and whatnot, it's legal. But i mean, 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.720 come on, these these officials are having to, you know, 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:07.040 watch these world class athletes with the with these very 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:12.400 finite specific parameters on the rules. It's it's not easy. 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:16.160 And yeah, if if this review of past interference stuff 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.040 is going to UH is going to lead to some 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.120 offensive past interference calls being made and helping out defenses 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.880 in these tough spots, I have no problem with that. 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:27.920 The thing that was that's been interesting to me is 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.560 what I've heard from all of the pundits or whether 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.800 you're looking at the media in Minnesota, everything that's coming 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:35.679 out of there is like, well, this wasn't what the 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.280 rules intended to do to take touchdowns off the board. 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.640 But you have a look at it. It's a penalty, 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.520 So what the hell is? So what what? What's the 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.640 I don't see what the problem with it is when 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.200 you look at the film and it was clearly offensive 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.280 past interference by the letter of the law. And let's 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.440 be honest too, Mike, there's a science to this, right, 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.240 I mean, you look at offensive line play. You know, 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.760 Everson Griffin was making that kind of tongue in cheek 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.600 joke about how David box Terry holds a line. I 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.240 remember hearing, you know, certain defensive linemen say that about 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.839 Josh Sitton. But there is an art to it and 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.320 doing it well. There's gonna be pick plays that are 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.480 gonna be very much in the gray area this year 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.880 that they're gonna have to make tough calls on. This 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.760 wasn't one of them. Delvin Cook did not do it 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:18.640 the way you need to do it in order to 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.480 avoid the penalty. It was a penalty. Yea, so it 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.319 is what it is. But I certainly I think considering 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.719 that the place started with the head of fish, I 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.480 think that was who was it, John Hesse or whoever 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.760 it was, Yeah, John Hussey. I believe we ended up 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.360 coming out and say, well, why are we stopping the game? 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.600 Mike was on a little too long, stopping the game 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.480 because you guys just missed a penalty. Yeah, Well, a 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.600 couple others I want to talk about here. We can 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.920 talk about him in tandem. The Adam Theeland catch the 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.239 thirty yard or that got the Vikings out to midfield 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.760 in I believe it was the third quarter, and then 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.200 Kevin King's interception in the corner of the end zone 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.600 in the fourth quarter. Both of these were really interesting 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:03.679 calls to me because we've seen various adjustments and permutations 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.400 to the catch rule, the Calvin Johnson rule, whatever you 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.000 want to call it, over the last few years, and 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:15.000 quite frankly, I think the most recent adjustment to those 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.040 to that rule is what allowed both of these plays 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.520 to stand, because if you rewind the clock five or 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.680 six years, I think both of those are incomplete passes. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.840 What do you think? So it's funny They're completely different 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:30.960 in there on completely different sides of the ball in 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.400 terms of who is catching the past, but I think 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.640 they're eerily similar. And why I say that is the 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.760 new rule whatever you want to say it is, and 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:40.320 you could read it off to me right now and 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.160 I would not be able to honestly tell you what 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.360 the difference is in terms of nuance from the past rule. 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.840 But the one thing that I've taken away from the 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:53.359 last year and change in this new environment is basically 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:57.160 the alteration to this rule is you're gonna need clear 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.800 evidence to overturn whatever the original old judgment is of 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.760 the officials. That is what holds the most water. Now, 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:09.520 whatever that first initial reaction to it is is going 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.640 to be the call, and it's gonna stand. It's why 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.560 in Theeland's instance, I had no doubt from the beginning 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.280 that that play was going to stand. I'm not saying 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:18.880 it was a catch or not a catch, I don't know, 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:20.800 but I had no doubt that they were going to 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.440 rule that a catch, just based on what we've seen 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.880 over the past year. The King one is, as I 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.360 was explaining to you yesterday, I actually was a little 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.720 bit more on board with it being a catch slash 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.920 interception because he did it all in one one motion 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.200 where it was conceivable although the ball came out, it 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.480 was conceivable that he caught it and let the ball 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.240 go and then continue to celebration, which is exactly what 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.560 Calvin Johnson did when this whole thing started and his 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.960 was ruled incomplete in the end zone at Soldier Field, 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.760 and that's what opened this Pandora's box and it's led 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:57.360 to essentially a decade's worth of machinations over the rule 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.360 and everything like that. I agree with you. I think 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.480 what Kevin did was all in one motion and it 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:06.680 was very, very similar to the original Calvin Johnson play 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.240 that was ruled incomplete. The one benefit that King had 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.200 is there was a lot of bodies around where the 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.640 Calvin Johnson won. It was just so much isolated on 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.200 him at that exact moment because well he was Kelvin 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.160 Johnson and basically beat everybody to the end zone. But 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.720 you know, the thing is, again, as I just sort 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.480 of illustrated alluded to when you had the Dez Bryant play, 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.600 it just always seemed to be during that era of 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.880 this call, it was always okay the officials are looking 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:33.800 at these plays and they are just trying to find 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.200 anything to overturn it as it now. It's looking at 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.560 it and being like, Okay, we need to see something 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.080 that makes us overturn it. I just think that that's 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.880 the it's just the perspective that's changed, and it's allowed 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.480 more of these plays to go there insummation. There are 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.400 plays last year I can think of that I had 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.640 more of an issue with standing than either one of 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.960 those two. I would agree with you. My my initiative 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.040 Washington last year I thought was agreed. I can't remember. Yeah, 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.480 My initial reaction on the feeling one is just that 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.439 because the whole time it seemed that that he was 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.320 juggling the ball, and then just before he hit the 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.680 ground it seemed that, yes, then he the ball was secure, 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:17.520 and then you saw the nose of the ball hit 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.119 the ground as he fell, and to me, like you 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.240 slow that down frame by frame, it's like, yeah, it 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:24.480 looks like he has it, But when you look at 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.119 how much he was juggling it along the way, and 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.439 then you're going to you're going to say that in 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.199 really what amounts to maybe fifteen hundreds of a second, 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.200 he had that before. The nose of the ball touched 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.800 clearly touched the ground. To me, like the you know, 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.000 the you know, the fifty guys in a bar rule, 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.240 so to speak. If I'm one of those fifty guys 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.439 in a bar, I'm saying the ground helped him catch it. 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.439 Even though the ball didn't move. It felt to me 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.080 like the ball helped him. The ground helped him catch 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.520 the ball. Obviously, the way the rule is written now, 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:59.560 as you said, they're they're looking for something clear and 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.960 is to change a catch if it's been ruled a 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.240 catch on the field. And in both of those instances 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.720 that we're talking about, they were ruled a catch and 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.040 an interception and they didn't see they didn't see anything 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.720 that was like, you know, oh my gosh, no, that 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.080 wasn't correct, So we're going to change it. Yeah, for 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.159 whatever you know they made of this whole thing of 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.360 New York reviewing these things, the weight of the call 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.040 still seems to be on the original official The one 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.480 thing I will say that if I have any issue 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.639 with the way that this has been ruled or officiated 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.280 over the past year, it's that it's kind of turning 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.919 into a game of craps to me, where it's like, Okay, 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:35.040 well we know that this is what it's going to be, 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.119 but every once in a while and someone's going to 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.560 roll a seven and it's and you're gonna end up 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.280 having a thing overturned or changed. But it doesn't. But 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.280 I don't think that particular instance has any bearing on 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.160 any other ones. So I guess I'm trying to say 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.000 is my biggest issue is it seems like they're taking 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:54.000 everything in isolated event as opposed to trying to have 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.480 some sort of common thread among all of them. If 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.560 I had any issue with it at this point. Well, 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.879 the other one that I want to talk about before 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:03.960 we go, it wasn't in the Packers game, but it 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.359 was in the Bears Broncos game. And actually it was 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.240 a couple of things on the Bears final drive, one 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.440 being the roughing the passer call on Bradley Chubb which 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.040 gave the Bears the initial fifteen yards of that drive 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.080 where they end up kicking the game winning field goal, 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.280 and then the leaving one second on the clock after 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.000 the catch on fourth down, the Bears get the first down, 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.399 but it looks like the clock has hit zero. The 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.119 officials put a second back on saying that a time 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:32.520 out was called in time and then the Broncos end 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.280 up losing, the Broncos being the Packers next opponent here 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.160 coming up at Lambeau Field. The Broncos end up losing 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:39.879 on the last second field goal to go to oh 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.360