1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Col Zone Media. In November of twenty twelve, Barack Obama 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: was re elected as President of the United States. He 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: beat Republican challenger Mit Romney by a pretty good margin, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: pully in fifty one point oh six percent of the 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: popular vote to Romney's forty seven point two. But if 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: you add those numbers together, he'll only get ninety eight 7 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: point two six, a number that doesn't include more than 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: two million votes. Where did those votes go? American electoral 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: politics are dominated by the two party system. It's always 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: been that way. Before it was Republicans and Democrats and 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: red states and blue states, we had Democrats and Whigs, 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: and before that we had Federalists and Democratic Republicans. It's 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: always been nearly impossible for a third party or independent 14 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: candidate to break through on the national stage, but they've 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 1: always tried. There are long standing third parties ones you've 16 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: probably seen, or a ballot Green Party, the Libertarian Party, 17 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: and there are third parties that have come and gone, 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: like Ross Perrot's Reform Party. In every election cycle. There 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: are tiny little groups you've never heard of putting up 20 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: a candidate. They know they can't win, but they have 21 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: a message they want to get out there, and technically 22 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: almost anyone can run for president with or without a party, 23 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: as long as you are a natural born citizen over 24 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: thirty five. All you have to do is raise some 25 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 1: money and fill out some paperwork. Records from the Federal 26 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: Election Commission show that in twenty twelve, two hundred and 27 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: eighty people build out that paperwork announcing their intention to 28 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: run for president of the United States. One of those 29 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: candidates was an aspiring filmmaker with no political experience and 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts about who really did know. Nine 31 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: to eleven, I'm Molly Conger. This it's weirdly advised. I 32 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: landed on this story in a roundabout kind of way. 33 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: I guess they always do. If you listen to the 34 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: last two episodes, I do have a confession to make. 35 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: I left something out of that story. It just didn't 36 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: fit neatly into the episodes, and it would have been 37 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: a confusing digression. Those episodes were about Devon Arthur's, the 38 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: co founder of Adam Woffin who murdered two members of 39 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: the group in twenty seventeen, and in those episodes, I 40 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: told you that the earliest mentions of Adam Waffen online 41 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: were in posts on a forum called Iron March, and 42 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: that's still true as far as I know. I didn't 43 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: lie to you, but you might have assumed, based on 44 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: what I said in those episodes that the group's co founders, 45 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: Devin Arthurs and Brandon Russell must have met on Iron 46 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: March two. That's a reasonable assumption. And like I said, 47 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: I left some things out of the story because that's 48 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: not where the pair first met. They met on a 49 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: platform called tiny chat. Launched in two thousand and nine, 50 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: tiny chat was a video chat room. As many as 51 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: twelve users at a time could appear on video, and 52 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: more users could watch and participate in a text chat 53 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: down below. When they were interviewed by police on the 54 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: night of the murders in twenty seventeen, both Brandon Russell 55 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: and Devon Arthur's specifically mentioned that they'd originally met on 56 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: tiny Chat. I dug up old four chan posts from 57 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen that show some screenshots of one particular tiny 58 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: chat room. In what looks like a college dorm room, 59 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: a user calling himself Odin is staring into his webcam. 60 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: It's Brandon Russell, a year before he announced the formation 61 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: of his neo Nazi terrorist organization, and years before he 62 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: went to federal prison. The first and then second times, 63 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: he was nineteen years old sitting in his dorm room 64 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: in Florida in an online chat room called Third Position. 65 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: I don't have any particular interest in writing a third 66 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: part of that story. This isn't actually a continuation of 67 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: those two episodes. This isn't about Brandon Russell or Adam Waffen. 68 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: If you didn't listen to those episodes and you don't 69 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about, don't worry about it. But 70 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: I was stuck on this idea of that third position 71 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: tiny chat. How did a fourteen year old Devon Arthur 72 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: send up in a video chat room run by grown 73 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: men talking about the political ideology of third positionism. I'm 74 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: not going to answer those questions today. We're not really 75 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: going to talk about that chat room at all. I'm 76 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: just telling you how I ended up reading an unproduced 77 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: screenplay about a brave and handsome patriot who uncovers the 78 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: truth about nine to eleven. I promise these things are related. 79 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: This story is about the man who wrote that awful screenplay, 80 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: a man named Merlin Miller. In twenty twelve, he was 81 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: put forward as a presidential candidate by the American Third 82 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: Position Party, the same group that was video chatting with 83 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: teenage Nazis in twenty fourteen. One surviving promotional video for 84 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: the chat room actually repurposes Miller's twenty twelve campaign announcement 85 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: video to advertise an upcoming chat featuring the party's chairman, 86 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: an attorney named William Johnson. There are a lot of 87 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: characters here who we will definitely see again in future episodes, 88 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: so I won't dwell on them for too long now. 89 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: But let's get a little backstory. The American Third Position 90 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: Party was an actual political party registered with the Federal 91 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: Election Commission, and it still exists today kind of. The 92 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: group rebranded as the American Freedom Party and they still 93 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: have a website, although they terminated their federal electoral committee 94 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. As we so often see with extremist groups, 95 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: there is this constant cycle of collapsing, rebranding, and splintering, 96 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: and that's how American Third Position was born. In two 97 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 1: thousand and nine, a Nazi skinhead group in California found 98 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: themselves in turmoil. Some Nazi skinheads, calling themselves Freedom fourteen, 99 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: tried to organize a political party called the Golden State Party, 100 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: but it all fell apart when the Orange County Register 101 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: published a story revealing that the party spokesman had been 102 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: using a pseudonym I hide the fact that he had 103 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: some violent felony convictions in his past. It's not totally 104 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: clear to me why the Nazis skinheads found that to 105 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: be a problem. That's kind of their whole thing, but 106 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: I guess it just won't do for your political party spokesman. 107 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: Either way, the Golden State Party was dead in the water, 108 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: and some of those skinheads weren't ready to give up 109 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: on the idea of having a political party, so they 110 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: got together to choose a new leader and a new name, 111 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: and they settled on the American Third Position Party, and 112 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: the group would be chaired by a corporate lawyer in 113 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: Los Angeles named William Johnson. Johnson has been on my 114 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: list of Weird Little Guys from the beginning. I never 115 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: actually managed to pull from my list of episode ideas 116 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: because I always get distracted by some stray thought from 117 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: the prior week's research. But I have to imagine we'll 118 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: get to him eventually. He's a lawyer and he's in 119 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: the movement, but he's not really a movement lawyer. That's 120 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: not the focus of his practice. He pitches in occasionally. Sure, 121 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: his name shows up as the attorney of record on 122 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: a trademark application for the Council of Conservative Citizens. And 123 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: there's a Nazi in Pennsylvania who seems fond of seeing 124 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: Johnson when he emails county employees to make public records requests, 125 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: as though he thinks Johnson is his personal attorney. But 126 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: he's not licensed to practice in Pennsylvania. But usually when 127 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm talking about a guy who is both an attorney 128 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: and a career white nationalist, he's not really keeping those 129 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: parts of his life separate. So I think he's a 130 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: little unique in that respect. As an attorney, Johnson primarily 131 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: represents Japanese companies doing business in the United States. He 132 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: has a terribly common name, making it a little hard 133 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: to look him up on pacer. But it doesn't look 134 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: like he's taken very many cases to court, at least 135 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: not in federal court. But in corporate law, there's a 136 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: lot of law to be practiced outside the courtroom. He 137 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: does have an active case in the Court of International 138 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: Trade right now, but I couldn't possibly pretend to be 139 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: interested in the court's opinion about whether his client's imported 140 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: goods were properly classified under the tariff schedule. Apparently, the 141 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: difference between raw dried seaweed and seaweed that has been 142 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: prepared for human consumption by drying it is not just 143 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: in the eye of the beholder, it is a six 144 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: percent jump in teriff right. Just how dry this seaweed 145 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: really is isn't interesting, But his choice of co counsel 146 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: is The seaweed importer is almost certainly Johnson's client. This 147 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: is the kind of client he represents. But the documents 148 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: are actually being filed with the court by a movement 149 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: lawyer who recently represented members of Patriot Front. Small World, 150 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: I guess. But we'll get to Glenn Allen's role in 151 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: this story next week, not the seaweed part, the Nazi part. 152 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: The website for Johnson's La based law firm is almost 153 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: entirely in Japanese, a language he appears to conduct most 154 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: of his business in proficiently. He majored in Japanese at 155 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: Brigham Young University and spent some time in Japan as 156 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: a Mormon missionary. I don't speak any Japanese, so I 157 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: can't really be the judge of such things, But in 158 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: some of the videos on his website, at least to 159 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: my ear, he has the sort of stilted cadence of 160 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: a speaker who isn't terribly confident in his skills. I am, however, 161 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: much better equipped to pass judgment on his other career 162 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: that of a professional racist. He's been splitting his time 163 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: between the two for more than forty years. He was 164 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: admitted to the bar in nineteen eighty one, and soon 165 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: after that he starts writing under the pseudonym James O. Pace. 166 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty five, as James O. Pace, he published 167 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: a book called Amendment to the Constitution, Averting the Decline 168 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: and Fall of America. The book lays out his argument 169 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: for an amendment to the Constitution, this so called Pace Amendment, 170 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: and it would repeal the fourteenth and fifteenth Amendments to 171 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: the US Constitution. He also proposes restricting U S citizenship 172 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: to whites of European descent only. The second section of 173 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: the proposed amendment reads, quote, no person shall be a 174 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: citizen of the United States unless he is a non 175 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: Hispanic white of the European race in whom there is 176 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: no ascertainable trace of Negro blood, nor more than one 177 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: eighth Mongolian, Asian, Asia Minor, Middle Eastern, Semitic, Near Eastern 178 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: a maa An, Indian, Malay, or other non European or 179 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: non white blood. You might be asking why did it 180 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: take an entire book to explain how that would work? 181 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 2: Well? 182 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: For one thing, he had to devote quite a few 183 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: pages to explaining exactly how the government would go about 184 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: determining who was white. Are Armenians white? Are Iranians our Jews? 185 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: The answer is no. Obviously, the book is every bit 186 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: as bad as you're imagining, and it did not need 187 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: to be two hundred pages long. And after its publication 188 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: he spent the latter half of the nineteen eighties running 189 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: a group called the League of Pace Amendment Advocates, and 190 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: he claimed that he was the group's spokesman, and he 191 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: pretended that he'd met the author and just supported his ideas. 192 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: When The La Times connected the dots that William Daniel 193 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: Johnson was definitely James O. Pace, he denied it, telling 194 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: the paper that James Pace was a pseudonym, but it wasn't. 195 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: His Pace is a lawyer just like him, but Pace 196 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: works outside of the country. He wouldn't say what Pace's 197 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: real name was or what country he was allegedly living in. 198 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: It's giving. My girlfriend goes to a different school, you 199 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't know her. He gave up on the League of 200 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: Pay Advocates after someone bombed the group's office in nineteen 201 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: eighty nine. It was only a small bomb and it 202 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: went off in the middle of the night when no 203 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: one was there. No one was injured, and as far 204 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: as I can tell, it was never solved. Like I said, 205 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: William Daniel Johnson is absolutely a weird little guy in 206 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: his own right, so I won't linger here. But he 207 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: was a well established figure in organized racism by the 208 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: time those skinheads approached him to chair their rebranded political 209 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: party in two thousand and nine. In fact, he was 210 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: fresh off a very public loss in a two thousand 211 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: and eight campaign for judge in the Superior Court of 212 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. The embarrassing defeat only raised his profile in 213 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: the white nationalist community, though, and it came at a 214 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: time of renewed interest in the movement in the idea 215 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: of entering mainstream politics. His newly formed political party was 216 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: led by respectable professionals, obscuring its origin in skinhead street 217 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: fighting gangs. Johnson was an attorney with a jd from 218 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: Columbia University. Tom Sunik, a Croatian born political scientist, had 219 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: taught at several universities, and Kevin MacDonald was a professor 220 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: of psychology at California State University. This was the era 221 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: of the sutent Thai racist the Dapper Nazi. Richard Spencer 222 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: had just started his alternative right dot com website. Matthew 223 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: Heinbach was still a college student at Tawson University and 224 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: he was leading a chapter of the White Supreme Group 225 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: Youth for Western Civilization. Both men would go on to 226 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: figure prominently in the twenty seventeen era alt right and 227 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: the street violence that accompanied it, and in the early 228 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: twenty tens, both of these men were frequent collaborators with 229 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: members of the American Third Position Party. The party may 230 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: have been a rebranding of a California skinhead group, but 231 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: it couldn't have existed without the neo Nazi networking that 232 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: was happening at Ron Paul campaign events. The Ron Paul 233 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: Revolution never really took off, but his campaign provided fertile 234 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: recruiting grounds for white nationalists in two thousand and seven, 235 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: William Johnson was hosting pricey fundraising dinners for Paul's campaign. 236 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: When he ran for judge in two thousand and eight. 237 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: His campaign manager was also the Paul campaign's California statewide coordinator. 238 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: Virginia Abernethy, a Vanderbilt professor and member of the Council 239 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: of Conservative City who would go on to be a 240 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: member of the party's board, was one of several high 241 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: profile racists whose donations to the Paul campaign made headlines 242 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: when he declined to refuse money from white nationalists. And 243 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: it was through Ron Paul campaign events that Merlin Miller 244 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: first met members of the American Third Position Party. Don't 245 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: just take my word for it, though. 246 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 3: Most of the founders, of course of the American Third Position, 247 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 3: which have evolved into the American Freedom Party now grew 248 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 3: out of the Ron Paul movement. But I think one 249 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 3: of the major shortcomings of the Ron Paul platform was 250 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 3: he really did not build very strongly on immigration. And 251 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: it's probably the most destructive thing going on today to America, 252 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 3: and as you suggested, it's altering the national character of 253 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: our country. 254 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: That's a conversation between Merlin Miller and American Third Position 255 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: Party director Jamie Kelso back in twenty thirteen, he's saying 256 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: something a lot of white nationalists, We're saying back then, 257 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: they love Ron Paul, they love Ron Paul's platform, but 258 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: he's just not going far enough in its first few years. 259 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: And I guess now that I'm saying out loud every 260 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: year since then as well, the party had trouble fielding candidates. 261 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: It's a tricky thing to do, even mainstream politics. Running 262 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: for office is hard. Convincing someone else to run for 263 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: office is also very hard. It takes a lot of time, effort, 264 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: and money. You have to put yourself out there. It's 265 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: exhausting and potentially humiliating. And the kind of guy who's 266 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: enthusiastic about running for office as an open white nationalist, 267 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: well that kind of guy tends to be an absolute 268 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: fucking weirdo who alienates everyone with an earshot. When party 269 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: member Ryan Murdaw announced his candidacy for state representative in 270 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: New Hampshire, people were disgusted. One letter to the editor 271 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: from a Grafton resident called his candidacy a festering boil. 272 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: Party member Harry Bertram made several spectacularly unsuccessful runs for 273 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: office in West Virginia, including the twenty eleven special election 274 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: for governor. I didn't do a whole lot of digging 275 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: on Harry Bertram, but I did read the entirety of 276 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: his twenty three year posting history on Stormfront, and I 277 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: have to say he doesn't strike me as a strong communicator, 278 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: and he appears to be at least a little bit 279 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: involved with the clan. But more importantly, his message just 280 00:18:53,760 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: didn't resonate with West Virginians. Was coarse and overt that 281 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: fearmongered about white replacement, but he didn't have much else 282 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: to offer outside of those racist conspiracy theories. One local 283 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: news article from the time quoted a West Virginia voter 284 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: who said illegal immigration just wasn't a top issue for her. 285 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: In twenty ten, West Virginia was ninety four percent white. 286 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: The state is to this day dead last when it 287 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: comes to the percentage of residents who are foreign born 288 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: and the percentage of residents who speak a language other 289 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: than English at home, about one and a half percent 290 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: and two and a half percent, respectively. So even if 291 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: those voters don't like immigrants in theory, there's a decent 292 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: chance they've never even seen one. It was a single 293 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: issue candidate, and that just wasn't the issue people cared 294 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: most about. The party needed someone who looked normal, someone 295 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: who could put on a suit and put together a 296 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: s sentence and pretend to address a real issue, preferably 297 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: someone who wasn't publicly associated with another active hate group, 298 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,479 Speaker 1: someone with a clean record and a good education. I mean, 299 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter who they pick, they're not going to win. 300 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: But it isn't necessarily about winning, is it. 301 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 2: It's harder for our enemies to characterize us as complete 302 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 2: outsiders and fringe coops if we're on the ballot in 303 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: a state election or a federal election. 304 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: That was Party director Jamie Kelso chatting with Richard Spencer 305 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: back in twenty thirteen. And here's one of America's leading 306 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: pseudo intellectual racist, Jared Taylor, in a promotional video begging 307 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: people to run for office. As a member of the party. 308 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 4: Running for office is one of the best ways to 309 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 4: publicize our ideas and to reach who may have never 310 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 4: heard a sensible, dissenting view about race. 311 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: It's not about winning elections. It's about trojanhorsing white nationalist 312 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: rhetoric into the conversation at every level, from county school 313 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: board to President of the United States. After running Harry 314 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: bertram A couple times for state and local office in 315 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: West Virginia, American Third Position wanted to break into national politics, 316 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: and in the twenty twelve presidential election, they decided that 317 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller was the man for the job. By his 318 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: own telling, Merlin Miller wasn't very interested in politics for 319 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: most of his life. He grew up in a working 320 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 1: class family in Iowa and became the first member of 321 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: his family to graduate from college. He graduated from West 322 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: Point in the class of nineteen seventy four, and he 323 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: had some pretty famous classmates. Astronaut Michael Clifford, former Chairman 324 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Martin Dempsey, former Deputy 325 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: Assistant Secretary General of NATO, Matthew Cleimo, former NSA director 326 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: Keith Alexander, and four star General Walter Sharp, and of course, 327 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: former CIA Director David Petreus. I had to look up 328 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: the graduating class of nineteen seventy four to get most 329 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: of those names, but not that one. In almost every 330 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: speech and interview, I could find spanning a decade. Merlin 331 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: Miller mentions that he went to school with David Petraeus. 332 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: I guess he thinks it makes him sound important. He 333 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: knows a very important guy whose name has been on 334 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: the news a lot, so that must mean something. And 335 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: particularly back during the twenty twelve Camps in Pain cycle, 336 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: David Petraeus was on the news quite a bit, so 337 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: saying the name gives him some proximity to power, some 338 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: proximity to legitimacy. Sometimes it feels like he wants the 339 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: listener to assume that the pair have maintained some kind 340 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: of relationship since graduation. But I don't think he ever 341 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: outright says that. In one interview, he says that in 342 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine he sent Betrayus Quote, a treatise 343 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: that connected military, political, and media intrigues challenging many of 344 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: the orthodoxies. Based on the context of the conversation and 345 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: the fact that the interview was published on an anti 346 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: Semitic conspiracy theory website, you can probably guess that he 347 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: sent the general some weird essay about Jewish control of 348 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: the media based on his use of the word treatise, 349 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: though I'm pretty sure What he sent David Petraeus was 350 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: a copy of his unpublished one hundred page manuscript called 351 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: The American Dream. It's a document that he only ever 352 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: refers to as a treatise, and that's the only place 353 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: I can find him ever using that word. So I 354 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: think that's what it was and has got everything you 355 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: might expect. Communism is a Jewish conspiracy. Some parts of 356 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: the Holocaust probably kind of happened, but maybe it wasn't 357 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: actually that serious. The Federal Reserve and the IRS, or 358 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: illegal scams perpetrated on the American people nine to eleven 359 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: was a false flag orchestrated by Masad and the CIA. 360 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: Illegal immigration is replacing white Americans, and the Jews are 361 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: behind that too. We have to crush the New World Order, etc. 362 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: You know, honestly, I wonder if he was a big 363 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 1: Info warse listener in the mid auts because this sounds 364 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: like vintage Alex Jones. I guess there was this thriving 365 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: blogosphere back then with all the same talking points, so 366 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: he could have gotten it anywhere. Let's not give Alex 367 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: Jones too much credit. I don't think David Betraeus ever 368 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: wrote back after graduating from West Point nineteen seventy four, 369 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 1: Miller served six years in the Army. He spent a 370 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: few years working for Michel Entire Company, but in nineteen 371 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: eighty three he had the opportunity to pursue his true passion, 372 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: his childhood dream, filmmaking. He was accepted into an MFA 373 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: program at the University of Southern California, and he was 374 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: one of just twenty students admitted into that year's Peter 375 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: Stark Producing Program, a specialized graduate degree program within the 376 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,719 Speaker 1: film school that focused on film and television production. And 377 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: here too he had some very famous classmates. Stacey Cher 378 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: produced movies like Pulp Fiction, Django Unchained, and Aaron Brockovich. 379 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: Neil Morritz would go on to produce movies like I 380 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: Know What You Did Last Summer, Cruel Intentions, and all 381 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: of the Fast and Furious movies. Liz Glotzer is the 382 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: president of a production company that makes television dramas for CBS. 383 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: The program seems to produce a lot of producers and 384 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller really did try to break into the industry. 385 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: While he was at USC, he interned at Paramount and 386 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: after graduation he had some minor production roles in a 387 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: couple of schlocky, low budget movies in the late eighties 388 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: and early nineties, but he had a family to feed. 389 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: He and his wife had four daughters by that time, 390 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: and living in la is expensive. You can't support a 391 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 1: family of six working as a line producer on b movies. 392 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: The family relocated to Springfield, Missouri, and he took a 393 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: job at Ozark's Technical Community College. But he didn't give 394 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: up on his dreams. He started his own film production company, 395 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: Ozark Pictures, and he made a movie. He made a 396 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: real movie with a budget of close to a million dollars, 397 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: all secured through private investors. His first film, A Place 398 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: to Grow, premiered at a theater in Springfield, Missouri, in 399 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,120 Speaker 1: March of nineteen ninety five. One of the film's big stars, 400 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: Chris Christofferson's daughter Tracy, attended the premiere in Springfield, but 401 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: her co stars, Wilford Brimley and a country singer called 402 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: Boxcar Willie, didn't make it. The movie didn't get wide release. 403 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: It wasn't something people were seeing theaters all over the country, 404 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: and almost all of the press about the film was 405 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: in Missouri newspapers who were writing about it as a 406 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: local interest story because the film cast locals in most 407 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: of the smaller roles, and in some of those articles 408 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: all the way back in nineteen ninety five, you can 409 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: start to see the hints of what's coming. He told 410 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: a reporter that he left Hollywood for the Ozarks to 411 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: make movies that quote promote the ideals of Americana end 412 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: quote traditional family values for Midwestern audiences. You know. Twenty 413 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: years later, in an interview with a Holocaust denier, he 414 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: said pretty much the same thing. You just can't make 415 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 1: movies with good family values out there in Hollywood. 416 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 3: Having graduated high in the class, I thought I might 417 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 3: have some opportunities. But the only opportunities for people like 418 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 3: me from the Midwest with traditional values was working independent films. 419 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: But he's speaking a little more freely this time than 420 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: he did with that reporter from the newspaper in Springfield, Missouri, 421 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety five, because this time he's speaking 422 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: to Dave Gaeheri, a longtime friend of David Duke and 423 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,959 Speaker 1: the proprietor of a small publishing company that prints mostly 424 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory books, including several by Jim Fetzer, a man 425 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: who believes the lending the Holocaust the Boston Marathon bombing, 426 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 1: the Sandy Hook and Parkland school shootings, the Pulse nightclub shooting, 427 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: and the Unite the rightvehicular attack in Charlottesville. We're all hoaxes. 428 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: None of those things happened. After Fetzer lost a lawsuit 429 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: brought by the father of a little boy killed in 430 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: Sandy Hook, Harry had to stop selling a book called 431 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: Nobody Died at Sandy Hook. So in this conversation, that's 432 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: who he's talking to. So Miller can be a little 433 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: more explicit about what he means. 434 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 3: And I was disillusioned with the quality of films coming 435 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 3: out of Hollywood and lack of any true opportunities with 436 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 3: somebody that I thought should have been able to get 437 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 3: some opportunities things going. There were twenty of us that 438 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: graduated my year group in USC and five are Jewish, 439 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 3: and those five went on to make some incredible big 440 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 3: motion pictures, not necessarily good motion pictures, but some very 441 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 3: high profile motion pictures. And due to this very day, 442 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 3: with one other exception, I'm the only other graduate of 443 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 3: mar class that still considers himself a part of the industry. 444 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 3: And that's pretty typical of all of the year groups 445 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 3: at USA. And in the industry, so it's a very 446 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 3: controlled environment. 447 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: In this interview in twenty twelve, he says he's still 448 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: in the industry, which is weird because I can't imagine 449 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: what he thinks he means by that he only ever 450 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: made two movies. His second and final film, a western 451 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: called Jericho, was released in two thousand and one by 452 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: another production company he founded, called Black Night Productions. I 453 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: found this one streaming somewhere, and I did try to 454 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: watch it. I like to be thorough. I really did try. 455 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: I promise I put it on the TV one evening 456 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: during dinner, but I couldn't finish it. I mean, it 457 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: was just not good. It had some actual star surprisingly, 458 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: but there's just no getting over some hurdles. Mark Valley, 459 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: who hadn't yet landed roles on shows like Er, Fringe, 460 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: Boston Legal and CSI, was mostly just a soap opera 461 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: actor in the nineties, and ar Lee Ermi was in 462 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: damn near a hundred movies. You might not know his name, 463 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: but he's the Marine Corps drill sergeant in every movie 464 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: you've ever seen with an older man playing a Marine 465 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: Corps drill sergeant or some adjacent type of loud, vaguely 466 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: military coded authority figure. That's Arlee ERMI every time I 467 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: think he just said yes to everything, but even getting 468 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: real actors for his movie could not salvage it. My 469 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: poor husband, who is eternally supportive of my work and 470 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: has this seemingly infinite well of patients for my obsessions, 471 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: looked so painfully bored that I just I could. I 472 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: couldn't do it to him. I mean, he once sat 473 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: through a made for TV movie starring a lesser Baldwin brother, 474 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: based on the autobiography of a neo Nazi, and he 475 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: didn't even complain when I talked through the entire movie, 476 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: saying things like, well, that's not what really happened, and 477 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: that character is actually an amalgamation of three different real guys. 478 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: So I take it very seriously if he's visibly pained 479 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: by the terrors I've brought into our home. So I 480 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: didn't watch Jericho, but I guess you could. And just 481 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: like a place to grow, Jericho failed to get picked 482 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: up for wider distribution, but in his efforts to market 483 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: the film, Merlin Miller met a man who would change 484 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: his life. It wasn't long after nine to eleven when 485 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: Merlin Miller had a meeting with a film buyer for 486 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: Carmike Cinemas. The buyer passed on the film, but they 487 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: got to talking about other things. None of the source 488 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: material I could find explains exactly how they got on 489 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: the subject. I don't know which one of them brought 490 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: up the Jewish question first, but someone did you see 491 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: as a much younger man before, he was the one 492 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: deciding which independent films you could see at a Carmike theater. 493 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: Bob Scarborough served three years in the Navy, and in 494 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, according to his obituary, Scarborough was a 495 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: cryptologist serving aboard the USS Liberty. On June eighth, nineteen 496 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: sixty seven, little over halfway through the Sixth Day War, 497 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: the Liberty was patrolling international waters off the coast of Egypt. Officially, 498 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: the United States was not involved in the Sixth Day War. 499 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: That was a war between Israel and everybody else, but 500 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: the American military is everywhere. So the USS Liberty was 501 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: about thirty miles off the coast of the Sinai Peninsula 502 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: when two unidentified jets appeared overhead. The jets made half 503 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: a dozen strafing runs over the Liberty firing on the vessel, 504 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: and then torpedo boats arrived and they too fired on 505 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: the Liberty. Thirty four members aboard the US Naval vessel 506 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: were killed and one hundred and seventy one more were injured. 507 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: I'll get it out of the way right now. There's 508 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: no right way to talk about this. That part just now. 509 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: Those are the bare facts. Those are the facts that 510 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: everyone agrees on. But the incident in question is the 511 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: subject of decades of conspiracy theories, mostly ones repeated by 512 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: virulent anti Semites. You'll never catch me out here saying 513 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: the Holocaust deniers are making some valid points. That's not 514 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But while the official investigations conducted by 515 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: the US and Israeli governments are on the hard facts 516 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: right that the jets fired, the boats fired, the people died, 517 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: but the investigations don't agree on the nature of this situation. 518 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: For the bare facts here, I'm using sources like the 519 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: US Navy's Naval History and Heritage Command, and documents available 520 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: from the State Department's Office of the Historian, and declassified 521 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: documents available on the NSA's website. Not to say that 522 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: the US government is the arbiter of truth here, and 523 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: that those documents necessarily present the version of the truth 524 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: that is true. I'm just trying to convey that I 525 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: did go out of my way to make sure I 526 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: wasn't accidentally repeating something from a conspiracy theory website, because 527 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: it can be very hard to tell. The official explanation 528 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: from the Israeli government is that it was a mistake. 529 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: The pilots claimed that the ship wasn't flying a flag 530 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: and they thought the Liberty was an Egyptian vessel. Once 531 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: they realized the victims were screaming in English, they apologized 532 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: to the United States and paid a few million dollars 533 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: in compensation to the victims' families and a few million 534 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: more for the damage cost to the ship. But there 535 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: are a lot of unanswered questions here, and the problem 536 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: is that the only people you ever hear asking those 537 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: questions are absolutely bug fuck nuts, because this is a 538 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 1: favorite topic of obsession for Boomer anti Semites. It's a 539 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: real shame too, because there are some very uncomfortable holes 540 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: in the official narrative. But the way conspiracy theorists have 541 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: flooded the conversation on this makes it very hard to 542 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: trust most sources it is absolutely possible and I think necessary, 543 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: to ask questions about unjustified Israeli military aggression without being antisemitic. Unfortunately, 544 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: the average guy posting online about the US Liberty is 545 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: not interested in that distinction. So I'm not going to 546 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: talk any more about what may or may not have 547 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: really happened aboard the USS Liberty in June of nineteen 548 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: sixty seven, because for the purposes of this story, that 549 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: doesn't actually matter. The only thing that matters here is 550 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: that the event is a madness rune for a particular 551 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: flavor of conspiracy. Guy and Merlin Miller has said many 552 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: times that this conversation with Bob Scarborough about the USS 553 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: Liberty was his political awakening. It makes sense in a 554 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: way that he was infected by this single conversation. He'd 555 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: washed out of Hollywood and his independent film career was 556 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,319 Speaker 1: one disappointment after another. He couldn't get funding, he felt 557 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: like the MPAA was giving his movies unfair ratings, he 558 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: couldn't get theatrical release, and his classmates whose careers were flourishing, 559 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: Come to think of it, they all had pretty Jewish 560 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: sounding last names, didn't they. It wasn't about talent or merit, 561 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: or that he wasn't working hard enough, or that he 562 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: wasn't making movies people wanted to watch. Oh, it couldn't 563 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: be that. This is about Jewish control of the media. 564 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: That's what's going on here and now, with nine to 565 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: eleven fresh in his mind and conspiracy theories sprouting like 566 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: mushrooms after a rain, here's this life altering revelation from 567 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,919 Speaker 1: a man who says he lived through a false flag 568 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: attack carried out by the people that Merlin Miller is 569 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: already half convinced have it out for him. So he 570 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: started doing his own research and he got obsessed. Scarborough 571 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: soon introduced Merlin Miller to a friend of his, a 572 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 1: man named Richard S. Thompson. I couldn't actually find a 573 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: copy of a book Miller wrote in twenty sixteen, and 574 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: I think there may be more detail in there. But 575 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: my guess is Scarborough thought to connect him to Thompson, 576 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: not just so Miller would have someone else to talk 577 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: to about the USS Liberty, but because of their shared 578 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 1: interest in film. Richard Thompson had been heavily involved in 579 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: the production of a two thousand and two BBC documentary 580 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: about the USS Liberty, so maybe as Scarborough is telling Miller, 581 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not interested in purchasing the rights to Jericho, 582 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: but I have this other opportunity for you. Talk to 583 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: my buddy Dick Thompson. He likes financing films. Thompson and 584 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: Miller did go on to become very close friends, and 585 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 1: he was, according to Miller, very interested in making a 586 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: movie together. According to that rambling one hundred page treatise 587 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: he wrote in two thousand and nine, that one I'm 588 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 1: pretty sure he mailed to General David BETREEUS, Thompson agreed 589 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: to finance a movie that would be produced and directed 590 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: by Merlin Miller. Again, according to Miller, Thompson announced his 591 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: intention to fund the film on Friday, June eighth, two 592 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: thousand and seven. That was the fortieth anniversary of the 593 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 1: incident on the USS Liberty and a few dozen surviving 594 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: crewman we're meeting up in Washington, d C. Now, as 595 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,879 Speaker 1: far as I can tell, Richard S. Thompson was never 596 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: aboard the US S Liberty. He wasn't a crewman at 597 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: the time of the incident. He was definitely in the Navy. 598 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: I know that the announcement in the newspaper when he 599 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: married his wife in nineteen fifty four mentions it, and 600 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: so does his obituary. And his obituary does mention the Liberty, 601 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: but not in the context of his naval career. No, 602 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: it says he was a longtime supporter of the survivors 603 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: of the USS Liberty, so it's just something he had 604 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: had an interest in. A lot of the writing online, 605 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: written by people I think may not be fully grounded 606 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: in reality, assert without question that he worked in naval intelligence. 607 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: At least one rather fantastical book repeatedly refers to him 608 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: as a CIA asset. But none of this seems to 609 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: be corroborated by any outside source that I could find. 610 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: So I don't know exactly what Thompson was doing in 611 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,839 Speaker 1: the Navy or how he came to know so much 612 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,919 Speaker 1: about the USS Liberty, but either way, he was very 613 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,759 Speaker 1: involved with this veterans group, and he was attending the 614 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 1: fortieth anniversary reunion in DC that weekend. On Sunday, he 615 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: left DC and began driving home to Florida. He made 616 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: it about halfway home. Again, I can't find any reporting 617 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: about the accident that was written by someone I know 618 00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: believes the Holocaust happened so it's hard to say exactly 619 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 1: what happened, but somewhere in Florence County, South Carolina, Thompson 620 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: had a fatal single car accident. Even the conspiracy theorists 621 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: have to begrudgingly admit that there's no sign of foul play. 622 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,400 Speaker 1: There's no actual reason to suspect this was anything but 623 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: an accident. He was a seventy six year old man 624 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: who had an exciting but probably exhausting weekend with his 625 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: old navy buddies, and then he got up at the 626 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: crack of dawn to make a thirteen hour drive home. 627 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: Halfway through the drive, he lost control of the vehicle 628 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: and crashed. But these people have questions. Did he fall 629 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: asleep or was it masad. Describing Thompson's death, Merilyn Miller wrote, 630 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 1: although foul play was not suspected, Dick had told me 631 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: if prior Israeli massad surveillance, and writing in the conspiracy 632 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: Theory rag American Free Press, Mark Glenn wrote that he 633 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: and many others were very suspicious about the death because 634 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,320 Speaker 1: they believe Thompson was about to go public with information 635 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: that had never before been published. But again, there's no 636 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: indication there was anything suspicious about the accident, and this 637 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,759 Speaker 1: same article by Mark Glenn includes this line as if 638 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: he had a premonition that his time was approaching. Thompson 639 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: recently made known to the Liberty Veterans Association that in 640 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: the event of his death, he did not want anyone 641 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: wasting money on flowers for his funeral, or rather that 642 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: such individuals should send money to the Liberty Veterans Association 643 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 1: so that the truth concerning the attacks in the US 644 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: s liberty could continue to emerge. So if he's telling 645 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: people what they should do if he dies and he's 646 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: seventy six years old, do you think he was secretly 647 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: assassinated by a foreign government staging a single car acttion 648 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 1: that had witnesses? Or do you think maybe his health 649 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,760 Speaker 1: was failing and he did know his time was coming. 650 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: Hard to say which is more likely. I'm not the 651 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: betting kind, but if I had to, I'd wager it 652 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 1: was a car accident, distracted driving, heart attack, asleep at 653 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: the wheel, something tragic and routine, but however ordinary his 654 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: death was. It left Merlin Miller without funding to produce 655 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: his screenplay, an action thriller romance called False Flag, The 656 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: story of a brave and handsome reporter who uncovers the truth. 657 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: But the US is liberty and nine to eleven, and 658 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: he has to take matters into his own hands to 659 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: stop these false flags from causing World War three. I'm 660 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: afraid we'll have to pick back up there next week. 661 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: I got lost along the way again. I didn't even 662 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: get to Merlin Miller's actual presidential campaign. To be honest, 663 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: I don't think his heart was really in it. In 664 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,799 Speaker 1: an interview shortly after he announced he was running, he 665 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: accidentally revealed to Richard Spencer that he didn't know what 666 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,399 Speaker 1: the third position in American third position party even meant. 667 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: And just weeks before election day, he wasn't out there 668 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: pounding the pavement talking to voters. He was taking meetings 669 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 1: in Tehran trying to get Iranian funding for his conspiracy 670 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 1: theory movie. I'm not sure if he brought a copy 671 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: of his screenplay to the twenty minute private meeting he 672 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: had with Mahmun Amadinishad, but I do know he gave 673 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,800 Speaker 1: the Iranian president a copy of his two thousand and 674 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: one Western Jericho on DVD. I wish Amadinashad was still 675 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: on Twitter. I would have loved to ask him if 676 00:45:49,719 --> 00:46:08,479 Speaker 1: he got past the first twenty minutes. Weird Little Guys 677 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: is a production at Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. It's researched, 678 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: written and recorded by me Molly Conger. Our executive producers 679 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,959 Speaker 1: are Sophie Lichtermann and Robert Evans. The show is edited 680 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: by the wildly talented Brory Gagan. The theme music was 681 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: composed by Brad Dickard. You can email me at Weird 682 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,280 Speaker 1: Little Guys podcast at gmail dot com. I will definitely 683 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: read it, but I probably won't answer. It's nothing personal. 684 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: You can exchange conspiracy theories about the show with other 685 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit. Just don't post 686 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: anything that's going to make you one of my Weird 687 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 1: Little Guys