WEBVTT - 9021One on One: Chuck Rosin 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.000 Hi, check, Hello everybody. 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:04.960 Hi Jen hie. 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:10.039 Yeah, well you can ask me just about anything you 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.480 want relative to the music and the show. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:13.760 Uh, certainly. 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:18.520 Uh, I'm happy to be thank you for inviting you today, 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.480 and and uh and talk about something that really is unfair, 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.200 and it's unfair to the people we care about the most, 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:26.200 which is our fans. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.440 Well you I want to hear it. Yeah, tell tell 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:29.520 me everything I want to hear. 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.640 All right, Well, let me start with with one element 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:35.520 about the show. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.080 And and I think you guys. 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:41.519 Certainly Tory and and and Jenny can corroborate this. Amy 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:46.000 is that the first five seasons that I was there, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.159 I did basically five different television shows. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.200 Wow. The first show was called The Walsh Family Show. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:58.800 Yeah. Second show was called High School Hijinks as we 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.880 just threw ball in the era, did twenty nine episodes. 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.279 The third show was called Senior Year Yeah. The fourth 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:12.479 show was College Yeah. And the fifth show was Goodbye Brenda, 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:13.880 Hello Tiffany. 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:14.959 Wow. 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.160 There were five completely different television shows with the same 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:27.600 characters but with different vibes, yeah, goals, different budgets. And 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.440 that's where we should start. On season one and two, 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.679 we had the lowest license fee in network television being 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.039 working for the Fox Broadcasting Company, which really at that 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.520 point was a broadcasting service, not in network. Yeah, as 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:52.080 I used to tease Peter Chernan a lot, anytime we 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.960 asked you to pay for something, you became a broadcast service, 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.280 and anytime something controversial you were a network. You know, 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.600 you know. But we did not have enough money, and 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.360 you guys can remember, you know, some of the scenes 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.560 that we had. We had a lot of montages, and 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.600 we had long scenes. 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:14.040 With very few setups. 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.640 Unlike the movies that you've been in your TV that 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.360 had much more production value. We didn't have that. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:23.399 So I had no idea. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.239 We thought you guys just liked writing those putting those 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.440 in that it was a choice. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.600 Your father would roll his eyes every time I would 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.920 say to him, Aaron form follows function, Man, if we 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:37.880 don't have any money, we got to do it this way, 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.480 and he would Yes, Amy. 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.760 Here's my question just so people can understand. So, like, 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.679 especially since we were talking about Aaron, so compared to Dynasty, 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.840 Love Boat, Fantasy Island was nine two one zero, like 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:59.919 like Peanuts, compared to those shows. 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.639 Half well from a budget. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.840 Listen, we you know, for of all, I want to 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.799 acknowledge to your fans that listen to your podcast week 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.560 and week, this one's a little different than most of 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:17.120 them because the business it becomes dominant, and especially when 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:21.320 you're talking about music, but his music is not free. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.040 But yes, I mean, you know they used to call 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.119 and I'm sure you mentioned on this show before ABC 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.720 stood for Aaron's broadcasting company in the years that I 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.120 started in the business in nineteen seventy seven, Yeah, and 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:37.760 moved it through to two thousand and seven. That was 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:42.160 my run of television. But you know, the. 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.559 Network business was a very flush. 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:49.560 Business, and Aaron, you know, was a very cost oriented producer. 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.760 He didn't like to waste. 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.920 Money, but at the same time, when he wanted to 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.840 spend it, there was really no holding him back on that. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:00.520 Wow. 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:06.480 Yeah, yeah, someone, now. 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:08.520 This is super interesting. Okay, keep going. So you're you're 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.000 talking about so, you know. 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:16.000 Seas So the idea being that how would we have 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.480 a production that would appeal to our core audience, which 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.560 was teenagers, which was kind of a brand new thing. 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.599 I mean, Fox was experimenting with a lot of different things, 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:29.680 and if you look back to what Fox had its 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:30.400 first season. 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:35.719 It wasn't teenage kind of stuff. It was really some 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:36.800 high end talent. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.760 George C. Scott, the famous actor. It was sitcom. James 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.800 Brooks was there doing Tracy Omen which led to The Simpsons. 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.440 Was twenty one Jump Street toward the beginning and twenty 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:47.239 one Jump Street. 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:48.480 Could you bring that up? 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.279 Because I was going to bring that one up because 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.960 twenty one Jump Street had a lot of pop music, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.200 and that so much pop music that they actually put 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:02.479 the credits of what songs they were using on during 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:03.279 the end credits. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.159 Oh yeah, that's sort of familiar to me. 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.360 Wait, can I ask that question? Like back back then, 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:11.520 what were budgets like, what was an appropriate budget for 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.240 a million dollar the shohow? 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:19.360 Yeah for whom? No, The budget that we proposed to make. 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:24.760 For the show was a was just over a million 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:31.320 dollars and that was rejected by uh Duke he By, 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.320 by the you know, the person who really would talk 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.160 about the mudget and that so our original license fee 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:45.599 from Fox was about seven hundred thousand dollars and and. 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:47.640 It was Ali mcbeil on then. 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:53.160 Later break Break My Heart. There were two great pilots 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.280 one year for Fox. One was written and produced by 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.080 David Kelly called Ally mcbeil and the other was written 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.839 produced by me called Soulmates and Alan McBeal one and Salmates. 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.159 He ever, did not get its ten year run. But anyway, 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:07.600 that's water under the bridge. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.280 Wait, since we're going there. This is very interesting. So 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:15.119 if the network pays essentially like Spelling Productions, seven hundred 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.680 thousand dollars to make this show, do you have to 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.400 make it for five hundred thousand to have profit? 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.560 Oh? Well, the other amount that the Spelling company put 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.720 in I even think it was lower. I think it 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.400 was like Court, closer to five hundred thousand dollars. But 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.320 they were smart enough company and had a big enough 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.240 foreign sales that they added that money into it, and 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.799 that was about one hundred and fifty more. But we 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.719 were one hundred to one hundred and fifty to two 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:47.960 hundred thousand dollars less than any other television series. The 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.000 other thing that you have to remember from seasons one 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.640 and two, which I know Tory and Jenny most likely remember, 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.880 is that our crew was not a union crew. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:58.279 It was a non union crew. 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:04.120 And that was a real gamble both on Fox Broadcasting 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:09.440 Company and Spelling being a willing participant in that to 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:14.960 go and try to effectively make a low budget television 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:20.160 and an effect break the Alliance for Television Studio Engineers 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:21.920 Flatsy the below the line. 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.240 That was the plan, and that is. 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.520 Really the only reason that I'm talking to you both 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.280 today so many years later. 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:35.600 Because Aaron could not and Duke, they were the Spelling production. 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:40.200 They had great relationships with unions, they did not put 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:42.360 their name on. They could not put their name on 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.640 the show. So instead they found a company to work 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:51.240 with propaganda of course, the CIA Company, and they worked 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.880 together and I and since Aaron couldn't put his name on, 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:59.600 he had to find someone who would here, and fortunately 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:00.320 he high me. 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.520 Why he hired me, by the way, is because of 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.760 I did a lot of movies for television. That's how 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.240 I really got by it. There were a new series 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.840 saying Elsewhere in Northern Exposure before I came to nine 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.080 o two and oh. But pretty much I wrote movies 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.120 for television. I wrote movies about women, I wrote movies 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:24.200 about kids. And you know, Tory, your dad. He's a 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:28.200 complex human being, but boy did he could he scrutinize 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.200 a problem and figure out where he would have to land. 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.199 You look, you know everybody. You go back to season 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:37.320 one and the older fans who remember that there was 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.520 Ferris Bueller's Day Off and French Prince of bel Air 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.920 and Parker Lewis Can't lose on the Fox Broadcasting Company, 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.360 which is a show that they loved as opposed to us. 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.440 They had to get used to and and uh and 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.760 there were others as were whole high from Disney, and 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.400 Aaron looked at that lineup and went, hey, I cannot compete. 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:01.600 They all want me to be MTV. I am not MTV. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.480 I don't know how to be MTV. I know how 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.760 to be good television. And he had that in his 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.880 background with a show from the sixties called Mod Squad, 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.520 which was one of the few things I watched when 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:16.120 I was a teenager. It was Mod Squad, the Smothers 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.960 Brothers in Mission Impossible. Those were my show. 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.600 When you say Aaron's name wasn't on the show, Aaron's 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:23.920 name wasn't on the show. 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.600 For the first five seasons. Not as an executive producer. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.920 I was the sole executive producer for two seasons. In 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.480 their season, he made a deal with Darren Starr to 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.160 get his name as an executive producer as well, but 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:41.480 it was front credits, not end credits. And I stayed 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.520 on the show for the two years of college. I 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.520 did one hundred and forty three hours of television in 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.600 five seasons. That's cramming six and a half years of 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.120 television into five seasons. Boy with the writers guild like 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.480 orders like that right now? Huh? 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.600 But we you know it was a very hard working. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:06.280 Show, and and I knew about two thirds of the way, 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.280 half of the way through season five that and I 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:12.880 would tell this to Karen. You know this show is 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.400 really trying to kill me. Karen, I got even you 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.559 can't do this anymore. This is the best thing that's 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.360 happened to us creatively and financially. But I can't do it. 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.720 I can feel that. And I and just too hard work, 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.480 too small a staff, too many episodes. I leave the 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:29.920 show in May, and at forty three years old, I 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.120 have a heart attack in the first week of July. 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.200 Tory and Jenny, do you feel that way? I mean, 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.120 I know you love this show, right, but do you 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.280 feel like it worked you really hard? 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.240 Oh? 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.760 Yes, yes we did. We're both nodding our heads. Yes, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.640 but we had nothing. It was gruel and we we 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:50.440 We've got to go home. At the end of the night, 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.920 you guys had to write. 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.920 Are you're talking about check? Like, Jen, do you remember 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.520 this about it being non union the first two seasons. 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.200 I remember the non union now he's bringing it up definitely, 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.520 because that was a big hubbub around when the show 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:05.560 decided to go union. 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.840 I can't remember my part. I remember the propaganda. I'm like, oh, 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:10.679 is that where that they came in? 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.480 Yes, And it was a very big thing. You guys. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.839 You guys were waiting in the wings when they were 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:23.040 having their meeting and to vote, and you know, they 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.160 were having the conversation among themselves and the only people 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.440 in the room who weren't union were myself and and 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.840 Paul Wagner, who had just come on as the line 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:42.080 producer at that point, and we uh and you know uh, 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:47.240 and Shannon had actually taken the microphone and urged everybody 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.600 to go on strike, that they deserved more money that 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.160 they did in these hours were too long. But blah blah, 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.880 blah blah. And I got on the night and said, well, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.520 you know, just realize that we are a terribly low 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.319 rated show. We've only had two three episodes airing by 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.439 that point, even though they were really good. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.400 Hello, but we were low aired, so what did it matter? 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:11.680 And I said, if you vote to strike, I can't 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:13.559 guarantee you that we'll be working tomorrow. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.199 And we won by one vote. Well, if one vote 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:19.360 did they come back to work. 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.520 You cut to season two and they decided to try 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.800 to go on strike again and go on it become 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:32.440 a union television show. And I remember Paul Wagner, my 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.120 dear friend and really my production partner and all of this, 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.319 saying to them, look, if you go union, that means 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.040 that we can hire anybody we want for any job. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:43.839 We're not struck to that. 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.600 And they passed it by one. It passed by one, 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.880 and the next year that came back. Your friend, You 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.120 guys friends, remember that he was such a nice guy. 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:59.320 And I know is Eric Lopez Eric Lopezeah the golfer 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:03.240 and Jason he was if you remember from seasons two 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.040 to three, he was the only one who was brought back, 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.400 and I think it was because he was Jason's golf partner. 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:13.760 Tell you the truth, Okay. 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:14.120 He hung out with you guys. 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.319 Yeah, I have another question for you, Chuck, so well, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.360 okay two actually too. So as shows go, and we're 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.840 talking season one ish before it blew up that summer, right, Sure, 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:30.840 were they Tory Jenny, the whole cast paid significantly lower 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.400 than say, twenty one Jump Street when they started, like, oh. 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:36.360 I'm sorry, I don't know that. 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.560 If they were paid being paid, they were being paid 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.560 lower than had the show been on ABC. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.360 Okay, okay, yes, I can't. 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.319 Judge from the other, but I didn't know bringing since 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.280 you brought up Judge Street, and since I know the 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:55.320 focus on this is music that we that we knew 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:57.680 that if we that if we did some music and 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:01.800 we had the propaganda people, and let's understand something about propaganda. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.080 They were the hippus people in town. They were doing 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.720 all the music videos for for Madonna. They had the 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:14.120 great director David Fincher under contract, they had Michael Bay 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.240 under contract. They were just they were and they had 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.440 and they were doing twin Peaks the production right, right, 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:22.800 so come on. 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:24.800 They were They were really something else. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.560 And they had brought us some people to say, these 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.040 people know what the hip songs are and you can 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:41.840 license them and they'll be your your your company. 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.080 Before you start talking about this sixties episode that we 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.080 really want to talk about. Of the of you know, 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.480 how you describe like your your your time on the show, 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.280 how it was five different seasons. Do you have a 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:03.000 favorite of those? Of the different incarnations the Walsh family, 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.160 the high school years, senior year college, the Tiffany years, 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:11.360 Do you have a favorite? 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:11.880 Yeah? 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.720 Well, yeah, there was you know, uh, sure I do. 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.240 But I love that all my children. I love them all, 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.880 and I love things that you all did in them. 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.920 You know, it's it's you know, some episodes worked better 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.000 than others in this. But I again go back to this. 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.720 I was hired to do basically bring a movie of 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:38.520 the week sensibility exploring teen issues. Yeah and so, and 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.160 we were in for a big surprise when we turned 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.640 in when Darren Starr and I and our staff turned 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.760 in our first proposal for the first six episodes, and 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.760 they were all rejected, Wow, single one of them rejected 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.640 because they did not want a serialized television show. 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:02.040 They wanted individual episodees that each had a beginning, middle, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.240 and end, which at that point was because it was 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:10.600 better for syndication, right, you know, the soaps and and 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.040 I'm sure this came from, you know, the experience that 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.520 your dad had with Dynasty and the others just didn't 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.120 play as well when it wasn't first run. And by 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.640 the way, that was what nine o two and zero 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.000 didn't play as well when it wasn't first run. So 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.440 because of that, Barry Diller said, let's bring them back 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:28.080 in the summer. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.080 Let's do twenty eight episodes. Let's just do more and 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:35.160 more because the kids want to watch new material. They 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:40.000 didn't want to watch repeats, and so that was you. 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:44.200 Know, he still avoided my question there where he said 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.680 he can't pick, He can't pick, do you because I 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.080 would say, right now with the episodes were in, because 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.400 we're we just talked about divas. I mean this it 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.640 is thriving right now. Like I love season five, I 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.400 love it so yeah. So to me, this is like 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.200 season one was not my favorite, and it then it's 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.919 just gotten better and better. Do you did you feel 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.840 like it was because everyone was firing in all cylinders. 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.760 You guys just finally knew exactly what the show was like. 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:17.400 Can you pick. 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.480 My favorite season? The season three senior year by far? 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.720 Okay, this is a high school. 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:27.800 Series and that's how I perceive it, and I'm really 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.520 glad that you liked season stings. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.160 In season four, the fact is is that. 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:41.680 We were blown away by the divas, the the three 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:46.399 the three episode arc of it. It was and and 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.119 you know, I'm sitting here talking and because I consider 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.280 Jenny a friend, I can say, okay, here we do 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.959 we put Jenny now that he says, look what you 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.000 did to Kelly Taylor, especially after I left. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:01.480 They made her go through this. 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:01.719 He left me. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:03.080 They did, I did. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.080 They did not Charlie. Charlie didn't do that. 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.280 They did. But but the fact of the matter is 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.600 is that when we wrote, uh, you know, okay, Kelly 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.360 Taylor is going to go on and be the lead of. 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.240 A Tennessee Williams play, I didn't know if you could 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:19.720 do that. 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.160 Jenny. I didn't come You didn't come to my mouth, Jenny, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.679 would you like to do Tennessee Waives? I didn't function 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.440 that way because we're gonna do it. Well, it'll work, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.920 we'll cut around. But the the great performances by you, 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.800 Shannon and Tracy Middendorf, I agree, I mean. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:35.960 They were they were some of the things. 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:39.800 And by the way, when I and people who know 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.280 that the podcast that I do with Pete we often 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:44.240 talk about that. 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:50.639 We were just astounded that h Shannon found her in 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:55.440 season four, found her Sea legs. Yes, and she. 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.800 Found it starting with the Time has Come Today and 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:05.240 then through Divas and then through the end she she reconnected. 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.359 With the character that she had. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.640 It was so ambivalent about, Yeah, you know, how can 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.520 you play the part Brenda when you know that there's 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:16.480 a bunch of people out there for whatever reason saying 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:18.119 I hate Brenda and you're Brenda? 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.280 Is that I hate Kelly? And Jenny played it. 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.200 No, not like, not like, not like. It wasn't organized 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.960 in the same way. That was a that was a thing, 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.960 and it was double and we had this argument. I 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:35.560 think Tory certainly remember this, Jenny, you might but A 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:41.200 Current Affair was on every night and at seven o'clock 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:43.560 we come on at eight other shows that come on 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.640 in eight hosted by Bill Riley, and Bill Riley went 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.199 after Shannon every week every week whatever he could he 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.840 would And it was the only time I ever called 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.840 the President and said, back off, what are you doing? 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:58.160 You have this guy? 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.480 And then and then the other one was great about 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.800 season one. You know season one that one of the 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:05.600 reasons Amy that you liked season four so much more 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.239 than number one one. I had to battle, I had 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.080 to have conversations with censors. I had We were talking 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.959 about high school kids, and that was what, you know, 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:17.320 the focus was, so what they would say, what they 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.679 would do was was it was really was you know, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:26.760 really part of the uh gestalt of it. But but I, 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:31.160 you know, I loved the senior year because I thought 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:36.399 that that really had the it was Season two was 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.640 the hardest season for me of the five because it 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.480 wasn't in real time. You know, it's you know, when 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.479 you're in high school, you know, you're most kids are 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.280 talking about when they get to you, what was my 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.239 SAT score? What college are going to? Where am I? This? 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.600 And this? And and that was uh and we started 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.639 that out and and I and I personally, just because 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:03.399 of my nature of writing movies for television, I particularly 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:07.919 liked episodes that were not serialized movies having an end. 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:11.760 So so interesting. I mean, I love the serial. I 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.280 could talk to you all day because this is so fascinating. 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:16.120 I love the serial aspect of the show. 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:21.240 Well, let you talk to iHeartRadio. Let's just talk about. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:24.720 But I Jenny and Ian and I had a fascinating 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:28.639 conversation in the last week or whatever about that episode 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:33.800 when he outs Mike Ryan and just how even though 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:38.560 it's dated a little bit, it still feels so current 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.720 and the issues and addressing abortion with with Andrea, and 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.680 it's just like, you guys were so ahead of your 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:49.040 time in leaning into these. 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.480 You know what's numbers number one in that And it's 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:53.520 really crazy because I didn't know, you know, I didn't 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.320 watch most I put these episodes on, I watched them 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.679 every night when they were on live, and then I 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.359 put them away, and so I didn't really watch a 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:03.119 lot of the episodes for a lot of years. 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.399 And then you know, started getting back to it. 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:10.480 But our second episode, which was a female centric episode, 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:13.639 and it was because that's what we had to do. 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:17.120 Then season one one for Brandon, one for Brenda, one 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.240 for Brandon, one for Brenda, one for Brandon, oops one 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:25.119 for Kelly, which was perfect mom, and that changed it 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:28.000 all up, believe me. And then and really the only 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:31.560 two she had that one. And then of course Dylan 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.440 got his breakthrough with Isn't It Romantic? The Ages episode, 0:22:35.840 --> 0:22:39.560