1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Warning. The following episode contains stories of extreme violence. Have 2 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: you ever walked the streets of a city or town 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: the day after a parade or some other large event 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: took place. You may see a cleanup crew or an 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: overflowing trash can, maybe some stray balloons, no matter how 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: joyous the occasion may have been. The next day, those 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: areas tend to look a little apocalyptic, but you know 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: they'll be as good as new in no time. Now, 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: imagine this scenario, but instead of remnants of confetti and decorations, 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: the streets are littered with corpses and blood is heavily 11 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: drenched in the soil. Last week, you heard me talk 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: a little bit about what happened when the people of 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: India found out their country was going to be divided. 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: But what about some of the events that took place 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: before that? Many communal fights and riots broke out, most 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: notably on August seventeenth, ninety six, a day known as 17 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: Direct Action Day. What started out as a pressure tactic 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: against the British ended up in absolute carnage. From I 19 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, I'm Nehasis and this is partition a podcast 20 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: that will take a closer look into this often forgotten 21 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: part of history. The idea behind Direct Action Day, an 22 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: event that took place exactly a year before the boundary 23 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: line was announced, came from Mohammad Ali Jinna, the future 24 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: founder of Pakistan. Jinna wanted to ensure the British knew 25 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: that the Muslim League wanted a separate country and the 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: transfer of power took place. He called for all Muslims 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 1: to close their shops and take part in demonstrations. However, 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: it was never quite clear what those demonstrations should be, 29 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: and in the end, massive looting and destruction transpired. Author 30 00:01:55,040 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: Nasidha Jari paints the grewsome picture in Midnight's Furies m 31 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: hm m h. None the Law first noticed something was 32 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: wrong when the cows sleeping in the middle of the 33 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: road struggled to their feet to avoid an early morning 34 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: street car. The normally packed tram that clanged past was 35 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: completely empty. Nobody was heading to work instead. A half 36 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: dozen trucks followed, filled with angry bearded men carrying brick 37 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: bats and bottles. For a moment, None the Law watched, 38 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: frozen in place as the thugs piled out and ransacked 39 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: a nearby furniture store owned by a Hindu like himself. 40 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: They tossed mattresses and chairs into the street and set 41 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: them on fire. Then a hill of stones came pelting 42 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: up the road towards him. Law turned and left. The 43 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: violence seemed to have subsided by the evening, but when 44 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: the clock struck midnight, a different story unfolded. Gangs of 45 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: killers materialized, wielding machetes, torches, and even revolvers and shotguns 46 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: with ruthless efficiency, they hunted down members of the opposite community. 47 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: Where a lane of Muslim shanties crossed through a Hindu area, 48 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: or a few threadbare hovels inhabited by Hindu families sat 49 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: amid a sea of Muslim homes, the shrieking mobs woke 50 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: the inhabitants, slaughtered them and set their cramped, flimsy huts alight. 51 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: The scale of the slaughter only became apparent in the daylight. 52 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: Hundreds of corpses littered the streets on Saturday morning, seventeen August, 53 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: and photographs they looked like mannikins, near naked and beginning 54 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: to bloat, Their limbs tangled like rope. It was a 55 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: kill or be killed situation. It wasn't just the Gunda's 56 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: or low level criminals who are wreaking havoc, but regular 57 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: citizens as well. One horrified Britain recounted how his butcher 58 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: had sliced up his order before calmly striding across the 59 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: street and using the same knife to slip the throat 60 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: of a Hindu passersby. These days of bloodshed have another 61 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: name as well, the Great Calcutta Killings. Negotiation after negotiation 62 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: took place, different iterations of plans took place, and when 63 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: it looked like progress was at the end of a 64 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: long and winding road, it quickly dissolved as soon as 65 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: it appeared. Jenna felt as though he was being ignored 66 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: and that no one was listening to the wants and 67 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: needs of the people who wanted a Muslim majority dominion 68 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: Neary wanted to ensure that India wouldn't disintegrate. To shed 69 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: more perspective on these riots and other aspects of partition, 70 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: I spoke to David Gilmartin, a professor from North Carolina 71 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: State University, to understand direct Action Day. There's a really 72 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: important act to this and to Jenna's calling for protests 73 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: on that day. I mean, I think it's very important 74 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: to stress that Jenna did not call for open violence 75 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: on this, but there are questions about the relative responsibility 76 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: of different groups for the violence that broke out, and 77 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: one could certainly say, you know, Jenna is not completely 78 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: free from a case that there were certain things that 79 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: he did which may have contributed to the violence. But again, 80 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: what I want to stress is the backdrop to this 81 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: had to do with the failure of the last major effort, 82 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: through negotiations by the British and by the Indian National 83 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: Congress and by the Muslim League, to produce a plan 84 00:05:53,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: for India's independence which would keep India united as a 85 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: single country and avoid a partition between two separate countries. 86 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: After all my research, I kept coming back to the 87 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: same conclusion. The whims and personal agendas of men constantly 88 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: got in the way when creating a well thought out solution. 89 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: I asked David what he thought about this. It's one 90 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: of these questions that one can argue about. But I 91 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: know this is a wishy washy answer, but I come 92 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: back to it kind of yes and no, because there's 93 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: no doubt that individual politicians had their own agendas, and 94 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: in the riots in Calcutta, that's really clear. So I mean, 95 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: a lot of the argument about that particular riot that 96 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: followed Direct Action Day has to do with the role 97 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: that was played by HS suro Worthy. So who was 98 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: Hussaint Sahed sugar Worthy, the Chief Minister of Bengal under 99 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: the Muslim League. And again there's a lot of controversy 100 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: about this. You know, whether he restrained the police from 101 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: moving in earlier to try to control the violence. Some 102 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: people say yes, but that's contested. Some people say no, 103 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: that he didn't. But one thing is very clear, quite 104 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: apart from conflict with Hindus, Sarti was a Muslim leader 105 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: in Bengal whose political base was in cal cut and 106 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: the partition of Bengal while it was a negative thing 107 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: one could say for many Bengali Muslims and Hindus alike, 108 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: but for Sarroarty the partition of Bengal would have been 109 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: political suicide. And in fact, in a certain sense it 110 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: was because he had no significant political base in East Bengal, 111 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: the part that ultimately went to bucket Stan. I tried 112 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: very hard not to roll my eyes as David was 113 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: telling me this, and I did not succeed in this task. 114 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: I literally had to interject when he was speaking to 115 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: Note that my iy roll was not directed towards him, 116 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: but the incredibly frustrating information I was hearing. So he 117 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: continued as a prominent politician, but actually largely by shifting 118 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: his focus to the national level, to the Pakistani level. 119 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: So there isn't any doubt he had his own agenda 120 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: in this. But the other part of your question is 121 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: can one explain what happened by this? Well? Maybe, but 122 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: had there not been a leader like Sir Worthy, it's 123 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: not clear that exactly the same thing wouldn't have happened, 124 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: because there were very significant underlying questions that go beyond 125 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: his particular agenda. I then asked where was everyone? Jenna 126 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: and a Route were not physically in Calcutta, But what 127 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: about the police? Why did this unrest go on for 128 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: as long as it did. The question about the role 129 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: of the police and the army is in part tied 130 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: to the kinds of things you're implying in your question 131 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: that a lot of these political leaders had their own 132 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: goals but were in a certain way not ready to 133 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: sacrifice those or sacrificed their own standing to to take 134 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: an active role in trying to stop the violence. I 135 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: am not naive. I understand the demand to be a 136 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: politician and the complexities of having a difficult job, but 137 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: behaviors like the ones David mentioned truly have me scratching 138 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: my head. Is the death of our people worth political gain? 139 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: Jenna certainly did not call for violence, but there is 140 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: a certain sense in which, of course, even though the 141 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: evidence I've seen suggests that the Muslims in Calcutta probably 142 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: suffered higher casualties than Hindus did, but largely because the 143 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: Muslim population was generally poor and less able to defend itself. 144 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: But you know, the riot itself, no doubt, did make 145 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: clear on a national stage that the question of coercing 146 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: Muslims into any kind of arrangement that didn't take account 147 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: of the Muslim demand for Pakistan was going to be 148 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: a very difficult proposition, and that message actually got across, 149 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: I mean, to both Congress and to the British. So 150 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: I mean, in that sense one could say this did 151 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: to a certain degree served part of Jenna's purposes. Now 152 00:10:54,720 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: for the British, the British governor was very wary of 153 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: trying to bring the British in and to cut out 154 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: the elected Chief Minister of the province at this particular time, 155 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: which would have brought the British in for huge criticism, 156 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: and a lot of the British actions throughout this whole 157 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: period leading up to partition one can explain by efforts 158 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: of the British to avoid getting blamed for, you know, 159 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: having been the cause of what happened, though of course 160 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: they have been blamed, but nevertheless, you know, the idea 161 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: was that they wanted to create the position, the image 162 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: that this is something that different Indian groups need to 163 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: work out. They're the ones who are responsible for partition. 164 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: We are kind of above the fray. This is the 165 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: standard kind of British argument they used to justify that 166 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: they didn't in fact maintain order above the fray. The 167 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: British who made the decision to colonize us and desecrated 168 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: India and its economy basically said, this is above our paygrade. Certainly, 169 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: there's plenty one can say about the role of British 170 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: in this whole operation, which is not to say the 171 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: British weren't in a somewhat difficult situation. But on the 172 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: other hand, you know, they were in charge, you know, 173 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: I mean who else was there too? I mean This 174 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: is like this example that I was just gimming about 175 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: what happened on direct Action Day and what followed, and 176 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: you know, the the politicians, people like Sara Worthy, were 177 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: under huge pressures and they did have their own agendas. 178 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: But yet at the same time, you know, even if 179 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: they were committed to a trying to control violence, they 180 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: didn't have the means to do it that the British did. 181 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: Accountability this is a characteristic that seems to be lacking 182 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: throughout many of the issues that arose before and after 183 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: a partition. No one wants to claim responsibility. It's like 184 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: when you see something amiss when you're walking and you 185 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: don't know if help is on the way. Most people 186 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: assume the problem is being taken care of and go 187 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: about their day. David said it himself. The lack of 188 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: confronting the violence from all sides was due to the 189 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: fact that there was confusion of who exactly was in 190 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: charge at the time. There wasn't this idea of see something, 191 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: say something. Direct Action day to me comes off as 192 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: a fur the greater good argument that the destruction was 193 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: a small price to pay in order to ensure that 194 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: the politicians got the chance to get what they want. 195 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: On February, the Prime Minister of Britain at the time, 196 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: Clement at Lee, made a statement that the British would 197 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: leave India by June of but as we all know, 198 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: that is not what happened. Like many characteristics of partition, 199 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,239 Speaker 1: we cannot pinpoint in exact reason why the date became August, 200 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: almost an entire year earlier than expected. Was an ongoing 201 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: unrest in patience, greed, and honestly probably is a combination 202 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: of all these things and more. Here is another excerpt 203 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: from Midnight's Furies. Mystery and misinformation still cloud the most 204 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: pivotal decision in the partition process, to rush forward the 205 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: date of the British departure by ten months. Mount Batten 206 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: is typically blamed for the acceleration of the handover so 207 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: the British would not be held responsible for the blood 208 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: bath to come. Mountbatten did himself no favors by boasting 209 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: in later years that he had plucked the date out 210 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: of thin air at a press conference, choosing the anniversary 211 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: of the Japanese surrender, simply because it's sprang to mind. 212 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: If that were true, hundreds of thousands of dead and 213 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: millions of displaced Pakistani's and Indians would indeed have been 214 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: victims of one man's whimsical addicted You all may remember 215 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: from last week that Lord Mountbatten was a royal representative 216 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: whose job it was to oversee the separation of India. 217 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: What a gentleman. On July, the British Parliament passed the 218 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: Indian Independence Bill. The bill was made up of several 219 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: committees to deal with different aspects of partition for the British. 220 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: Some included assets and liabilities, economic relations, and armed forces. 221 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: Care to guess how many committees were created to help 222 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: the people of India and Pakistan. If you guessed zero, 223 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: you would be correct. Politicians took a very lazy, fair approach, 224 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: after all, what could go wrong? You've heard me say 225 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: that June three was the date independence was announced, but 226 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: how many people actually found out on this day? Remember 227 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: this was the nineties. People were not getting news alerts 228 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: and push notifications on their smartphones. While this information was 229 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: on the radio and in the papers. The vast majority 230 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: of residents lived in quiet, rural areas where this vital 231 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: intel did not reach them. For weeks, the British hardly 232 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: went door to door giving denizens an f y I. 233 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: So how exactly was India going to be separated in 234 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: a new country formed? Mount Batton and his team brought 235 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: in a man named Cyril Radcliffe, a lawyer. Radcliffe was 236 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: literally chosen because he had absolutely no knowledge of what 237 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: was happening in India. According to the British, this would 238 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: allow him to do the job without a bias. To 239 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: add insult to injury, Radcliffe had never been to India before. 240 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: Do you think he bothered to visit the communities that 241 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: would soon be split up? He didn't. Do you think 242 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: he asked the United Nations for guidance? He didn't. The 243 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: United Nations was deliberately left out of the conversation to 244 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: avoid any delays. Did he make sure that all of 245 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: the information and plans he had for the country were 246 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: updated and accurate. He didn't. No map specialists or geography 247 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: professionals were involved in the making of this decision. Radcliffe 248 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: created these new territories in five weeks. The fate of 249 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 1: millions of people was left up to a man who 250 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: threw together a plan in five weeks. He left right 251 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: after his task was complete, burning all of the documents 252 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: before he left, or more truthfully, fled. Radcliffe wrote the 253 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: following to his nephew, Nobody in India would love me 254 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: for the award about the Punjab and Bengal, and there 255 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: will be roughly eighty million people, with their grievance who 256 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: will begin looking for me. I do not want them 257 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: to find me. As Rackcliffe understood it, people were going 258 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: to suffer no matter what. How nice to know we 259 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: were nothing more than collateral damage. Rackcliffe ended up not 260 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: accepting his fee for the job, hardly an atonement for 261 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: his sin. Naturally, when we're turning back to Britain, he 262 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: received one of the highest honors from the Queen the 263 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: night of the Grand Cross. You may recall my grandfather 264 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: talking about how he celebrated on the street as a 265 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: teenager when independence was granted. However, the celebration and excitement 266 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: was short lived because even though the British have left, 267 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: the official boundary lines have yet to be made public. 268 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: No one knew what land now belonged to what country. Remember, 269 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: this announcement came out on auguste The borderline cuts through 270 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: Bengal in the east and Punjab in the west. And 271 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: because Radcliffe made his decision on religious grounds, Muslims found 272 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: themselves on the Hindu side, and Hindus found themselves on 273 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: the Muslim side. Suddenly, even without moving, people were on 274 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: the wrong side of the border, and just like that, 275 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: we were in a state of genocide. A passage from 276 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: Yasmine Khan's The Great Partition states a whole village might 277 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: be hacked to death with blunt farm instruments, or imprisoned 278 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: in a barn and burned alive, or shot against walls 279 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: by impromptu firing squads using machine guns. Children, the elderly, 280 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: and the sick were not spared, and ritual humiliation and 281 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: conversions from one faith to another occurred alongside systemic looting 282 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: and robbery, clearly carried out with the intention of ruining lives. 283 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: It seems that the aim was not only to kill, 284 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: but to break people over and over again. I think 285 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: about these horrific facts and stories. These are stories that 286 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: determined much of my life, but not once did this 287 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 1: information come to play in my pre college education. I 288 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: graduated high school in two thousand eight, fourteen years ago. 289 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: I was curious to find out if others had similar 290 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: experiences to me, or by some miracle, this history hasn't 291 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: been erased from textbooks. My alma mater, the University of 292 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: Texas at Austin, is home to one of the most 293 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: distinguished South Asian programs in the country. I interviewed two 294 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: different students from UT, both of whom took an entire 295 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: course devoted to partition top by professor in any chater 296 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: g Did either of them know about it before taking 297 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: this class? Here's what they had to say. I didn't 298 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: know basically anything about partition before the class. That's Christine. 299 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: I just found the way the professor just made the 300 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: past come alive and really like reinforced the idea, like 301 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: that the past isn't even past. Um That made me 302 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: want to take more classes. Christine observed that while some 303 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: students were in this class to fulfilling requirement, others were 304 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: there for a very different reason. So I was one 305 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: of a handful of nonsalth Asian students in the class. 306 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: So at the beginning she was like, why are you here, 307 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: like asking people, and a lot of people were there 308 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: because they had never taken history classes before. They weren't 309 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: even liberal arts majors. They were just wanting to explore 310 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: family history or learn more about their heritage. And I 311 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: was like I'm just taking a history class. I felt 312 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: sort of like I was really missing something I didn't know. 313 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: I guess what the big deal at the time was, 314 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: because yes, my understanding and this is from like high 315 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: school history classes of partition was just kind of a 316 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: natural process of the independence movement and like a byproduct 317 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: of getting rid of British colonial rule was that these 318 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: two states had to form like it was almost inevitable, 319 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: which was something that was completely broken down in UM 320 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: the class. And one thing I come away with UM 321 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: is that it was definitely not inevitable and it was 322 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: a huge product of the British Rutha is a South 323 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: Asian like myself. She also immigrated to the United States 324 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: as a baby, so I was especially keen to know 325 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: if our experiences mirrored my own. My family didn't talk 326 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: about partition much, so are at all like the sentiment was, 327 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: you know, Pakistan an idea at one point where the 328 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: same country and then they split and now there's you know, 329 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: animosities one against the other. For me, it was just 330 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: kind of like this accepted thing that had happened. There 331 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: was no debate about if it was the right or 332 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: wrong thing to do. There was no Um, there was. 333 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: There just wasn't much like critical thought put towards it. 334 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: And I think what I learned in class was this 335 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: is a shared experience that people part of our generation 336 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: think have and it's because that history is really painful. 337 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: A lot of people's relatives experienced it firsthand and they 338 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: can speak to how it was more of an atrocity 339 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: than you know, the political gain. She recalls her first 340 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: time finding out about partition as a teenager. It was 341 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: actually kind of funny. Um, in my ninth grade World 342 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: Geography class, we talked about partition for I think like 343 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: a few lessons. It was like two were three lessons, 344 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: and um, the way it was talked about was so 345 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: surface level tangential. And now looking back on it after 346 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,719 Speaker 1: taking the classes that I have, it's almost offensive the 347 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: way that it was taught, Like, you know, they were 348 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: just they were just like, yeah, God, he was this 349 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: wonderful person who did so much great work to bring 350 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: peace to South Asia. And I just think about it now, 351 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: like as if that was a big joke. If you 352 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: remember from last week's episode, learning about Gandhi was also 353 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: the only aspect associated with partition I was taught as well. 354 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: Dr Gunita Singhbala, founder of the Oral History Project Partition Archive, 355 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: mentioned her education or lack there of, on this topic. 356 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: When we were children, the history that we were learning 357 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: in school, the official history was so disconnected from folk history, 358 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: and not just the history, even the news, like what 359 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: we would hear on National team me at the time, 360 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: there was only you know, one channel in India and 361 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: Pakistan as well at the time, the Indian channel was 362 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: called Dooders and um the news we would hear about 363 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: the job versus what we were seeing. There was such 364 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: a disconnect. And similarly in history, the folk history that 365 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: our grandparents and our communities carried and told through folklore 366 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: versus um you know what we lived in school, I 367 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: always knew that that gap needed rebridged and that would 368 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: solve a lot of the misunderstandings, a lot of the 369 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: problems we were having, a lot of the conflict that 370 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: resulted in real lives lost. So that thought was in 371 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: the back of my mind for a very long time. 372 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: Fast forward to high school. Um, I learned about, you know, 373 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: the independence movement in India and how India freedom uh 374 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: India and Pakistan and you know, the it was like 375 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: a one liner in our two books. Basically, Gandhi walked 376 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: to peaceful march the British left and it was like 377 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: a peaceful trance for a power and I was like, well, 378 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: that's just not what I heard growing up. Here's David 379 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: again with his experience as an educator. Mostly the students 380 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: know very little about partition. Some I've never heard of it. 381 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: Others sort of say, oh, yeah, there was something in 382 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: a school textbook about that, but you know, they can't 383 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: remember very much. But but of course other students know 384 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: much more about it, and particularly students who you know, 385 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: as you've been describing, have some family connections to partition, 386 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: and you know, their grandparents were involved in some way 387 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: or they've heard about it, and so they don't know 388 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: all of the details, but they do have real questions 389 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: tied to it, which puts them in a somewhat different 390 00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: perspective from the other students. So yeah, I mean, among 391 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: the students who hadn't sort of heard at all about 392 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: partition before, some get really quite interested, you know, and 393 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: people of course are always amazed to discover important things 394 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: in history that they ever heard of. You know. We 395 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,959 Speaker 1: talked about the people whose lives are affected by this 396 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: event in a general sense, but for the next two 397 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: episodes I will specifically talk about women and their treatment. 398 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: During Partition, I spoke to our survivor who wrote a 399 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: book as a way to cope with her trauma and 400 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: use the women in her life as inspiration for her characters. 401 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: How was the transformation of women possible through this kind 402 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: of carnage and trauma that women went through. My father 403 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: till my mother's dying day would say well, you know, 404 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: your mother saved our lives And I'd say how And 405 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: my mother she didn't want to live through the trauma 406 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: again until next week. I'm ness and this is Partition. 407 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: Partition was developed as a part of the Next Up 408 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: initiative created by Anna Hosnier, Joel Monique and Median. Partition 409 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: is produced by Anna Hosnier, Tricia Mukerjee and Becka Ramos. 410 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: It is edited by Rory Gagan, with original score composed 411 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: by Mark Hadley.