WEBVTT - Fire

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<v Speaker 1>The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

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<v Speaker 1>those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or their employees.

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<v Speaker 1>This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be

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<v Speaker 1>suitable for everyone.

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<v Speaker 3>Discretion is advised. Radical is released every Tuesday and brought

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<v Speaker 4>Enjoy the episode.

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<v Speaker 5>Campsite Media.

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<v Speaker 3>Atlanta, Georgia, was one commercial crossroads of the Confederacy then

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<v Speaker 3>decades after the Civil War. In the middle of the

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<v Speaker 3>twentieth century, it became something dramatically different, the seat of

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<v Speaker 3>the country's black political leadership that was at the height

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<v Speaker 3>of the Civil rights movement. The city's business elite called

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<v Speaker 3>Atlanta the City too Busy to Hate. There are other

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<v Speaker 3>nicknames too, the Black Mecca, the city in a forest,

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<v Speaker 3>the atl My name is Mosey's Secret and for me,

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<v Speaker 3>Atlanta is my hometown.

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<v Speaker 4>It's where I grew up.

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<v Speaker 3>Within the city, there's a neighborhood called the West End

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<v Speaker 3>that was once a rich white enclave with bungalows, Victorian homes,

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<v Speaker 3>and a leafy tree canopy. In the fifties and sixties,

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<v Speaker 3>after desegregation, white people took flight to the suburbs like

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<v Speaker 3>in so many other American cities, and black people moved

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<v Speaker 3>in institutional neglect, urban decay, and the crack epidemic followed.

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<v Speaker 3>That was the West End in the eighties when I.

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<v Speaker 4>Was growing up in Atlanta, pretty rough.

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<v Speaker 3>But it was also around that time that black people,

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<v Speaker 3>African American Muslims in particular, began to create a thriving

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<v Speaker 3>religious community in the West End. It turned the neighborhood

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<v Speaker 3>into something radically different from the rest of Atlanta, unique

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<v Speaker 3>even in the country. It was self led and to

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<v Speaker 3>a large extent, self policed, but it was not removed

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<v Speaker 3>from the city in the country's problems. There was tension

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<v Speaker 3>and there were clashes. Then on the nine of March sixteenth,

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<v Speaker 3>two thousand, it all came to a deadly explosive head.

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<v Speaker 3>That confrontation is what this story is about. It happened

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<v Speaker 3>around West End Park, the namesake park in the neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 3>Across a small street south of the park, there's a

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<v Speaker 3>one story wooden building. It looks like a house, but

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<v Speaker 3>people in the community have used it as their mosques

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<v Speaker 3>since the late seventies. I like to use the Arabic

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<v Speaker 3>word for mosque, masjed. On March sixteenth, two thousand, around

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<v Speaker 3>eight pm the Adan, the Muslim call to prayer was

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<v Speaker 3>broadcast throughout the West end those bungalows and Victorians African

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<v Speaker 3>American Muslims lived in them. Now the neighborhood was like

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<v Speaker 3>a little Muslim village, and at the call to prayer

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<v Speaker 3>that night, like always, men wearing thebes and coofies walked

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<v Speaker 3>from their homes to the masjed. They took off their

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<v Speaker 3>shoes and got ready for prayer in the front room,

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<v Speaker 3>shouldered to shoulder, toe to toe. That's a Muslims prey

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<v Speaker 3>or makes a lot lined up facing the city of

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<v Speaker 3>Mecca as they recite Versus from the Koran. A seventeen

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<v Speaker 3>year old kid, just a few years younger than me

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<v Speaker 3>at the time, joined the prayer. And after Salat that night,

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<v Speaker 3>when most of the men walked home, abduced samat Jahad

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<v Speaker 3>stuck around for a math lesson.

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<v Speaker 6>Were going over fractions and I think also were dealing

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<v Speaker 6>with a little trigger number tree or algebra, something like that,

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<v Speaker 6>and I was having problems real bad.

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<v Speaker 3>The streets in the neighborhood are small, it's quiet, especially

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<v Speaker 3>at night. The match was normally a great place for

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<v Speaker 3>up just samat to focus on algebra.

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<v Speaker 6>You didn't hear nobody's saying anything. You didn't hear nobody

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<v Speaker 6>speaking anything. It was just completely silence, and then all

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<v Speaker 6>of a sudden gunfire. So naturally me, I don't know

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<v Speaker 6>what's going on. I'm sitting down doing math and they

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<v Speaker 6>I just know the teacher jumped on top of me,

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<v Speaker 6>and you know, say get down because it sounded so close.

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<v Speaker 4>I'd samot and the tutor lay still on the floor.

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<v Speaker 6>All I knew was it was scary, you know, it

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<v Speaker 6>was scary to hear. I didn't know what was going on.

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<v Speaker 6>I was just saying, oh God, I thought somebody Honestly,

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<v Speaker 6>when they already shooting, I thought somebody was doing the

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<v Speaker 6>drive by on the Master, trying to shoot up on

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<v Speaker 6>the Master while I was in so I thought he

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<v Speaker 6>jumped on me. I was just a god, don't let

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<v Speaker 6>me get shot in the head or get shot by

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<v Speaker 6>my stray bullet. I thought somebody was doing the drive

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<v Speaker 6>by that's why he jumped.

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<v Speaker 7>On top of him.

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<v Speaker 3>They weren't hit and it wasn't a drive by, but

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<v Speaker 3>with shots still ripping through the air, someone dragged u

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<v Speaker 3>Duce some mat into a closet and told them, no

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<v Speaker 3>matter what, stay put.

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<v Speaker 6>And then after that the gunshots continued and continued and

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<v Speaker 6>continue to continue. It was like almost like an overkill,

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<v Speaker 6>like it was a war zone out there. Who would

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<v Speaker 6>shoot that many tonight? No one, I mean, no one

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<v Speaker 6>would do that.

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<v Speaker 3>When the gunfire finally stopped, Abduce crept out of the

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<v Speaker 3>closet through a window. He saw the street was flooded

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<v Speaker 3>with cops, and then a few moments later he heard

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<v Speaker 3>his father calling for him. They lived right next to

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<v Speaker 3>the mass jed, so he hurried home. So you spent

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<v Speaker 3>the rest of the night looking out the window.

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<v Speaker 6>Huh well yeah, basically, yeah, yeah, looking out the window.

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<v Speaker 6>And then my dad put me to sleep. He said, hey,

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<v Speaker 6>you got to go to school in the morning.

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<v Speaker 3>The responding officers found the aftermath of a shootout. There

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<v Speaker 3>were dozens of shellcasings strewn about and two black men

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<v Speaker 3>lying on the ground. They were bleeding, one in the

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<v Speaker 3>street and another in the grass next to the mass Jed.

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<v Speaker 3>The men were uniform deputies from the Fulton County Sheriff's Office,

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<v Speaker 3>the county that includes most of Atlanta. Someone had shot

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<v Speaker 3>the cops. The sheriff's deputies were there to arrest a

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<v Speaker 3>man named Jamil Abdullah Elamine on some relatively small charges.

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<v Speaker 3>He lived right across the street from the mass jed.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, he was the imam it's leader and the

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<v Speaker 3>de fact the leader of the whole neighborhood. When investigators

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<v Speaker 3>arrived at the crime scene, a Maam Jamil, as he

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<v Speaker 3>was known in the neighborhood was nowhere to be found.

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<v Speaker 4>It wasn't a leap for the.

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<v Speaker 3>Investigators to suspect he shot the deputies. And that's the

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<v Speaker 3>story that's still in the public record about what happened

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<v Speaker 3>that night in March sixteenth, two thousand. I was away

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<v Speaker 3>at college when it happened. Then I began working as

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<v Speaker 3>a journalist. I've been doing that for more than twenty

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<v Speaker 3>years now, and by some strange twist of fate, this

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<v Speaker 3>story about a Maam Jamil in the shootout, it found me.

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<v Speaker 3>A Maam Jamil was convicted of the shooting after a tense,

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<v Speaker 3>high profile trial. Some of the evidence against him was shaky,

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<v Speaker 3>and a prosecutor was accused of misconduct. Ma'am Jamil insisted

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<v Speaker 3>he was innocent, and his family and supporters they're still

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<v Speaker 3>making that case. In the last year or so, I've

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<v Speaker 3>learned that the story in the public record it's not complete.

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<v Speaker 3>There's much more to a man Jamil, and more to

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<v Speaker 3>what happened that night, more than law enforcement has cared

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<v Speaker 3>to acknowledge, and more than Muslims in Atlanta had cared

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<v Speaker 3>to acknowledge. Somehow, when I started asking questions, the timing

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<v Speaker 3>was right for a new narrative to emerge. A Mam

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<v Speaker 3>Jmil was not an ordinary man, or even in ordinary

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<v Speaker 3>a man. He was legendary, the stuff of myth, the

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<v Speaker 3>kind of person people tell stories about. Some of those

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<v Speaker 3>stories people need them to find the courage to face

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<v Speaker 3>their own lives. Some of those stories people fear, fear

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<v Speaker 3>their danger in their violence. But all the stories, regardless

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<v Speaker 3>of their basis, in fact, tend to grow. Over the

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<v Speaker 3>course of his life, a man Jamil became more and

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<v Speaker 3>more of a hero, even as he became more and

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<v Speaker 3>more of a villain. And even the tallest of those

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<v Speaker 3>tales had a way of becoming real as people lived

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<v Speaker 3>with them, acted on them. Sorting through this tangle I've

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<v Speaker 3>just described bringing this story to you, it required me

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<v Speaker 3>to come to grips with how I let stories take

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<v Speaker 3>shape in my own mind and just how I'm willing

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<v Speaker 3>to pass them on. This is one I'm going to

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<v Speaker 3>tell you and the way I'm going to tell it.

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<v Speaker 4>That's what I want to pass on.

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<v Speaker 3>From Campsite Media, Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart podcasts. This is Radical,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Mostly Secret. Episode one Fire and ma'am Emil Elmine's

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<v Speaker 3>story begins in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where he was born

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<v Speaker 3>into a black family in nineteen forty three. He was

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<v Speaker 3>the third and final child of a man off fighting

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<v Speaker 3>in the Second World War and a woman who worked

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<v Speaker 3>two jobs as a teacher at the local orphanage and

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<v Speaker 3>as a maid. The parents named their youngest Hubert Gerald Brown.

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<v Speaker 3>As a kid, he was drawn to the young bloods

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<v Speaker 3>on the corner, the bad mother focus who made a

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<v Speaker 3>profession of hanging out all day, playing the dozens, the

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<v Speaker 3>ones who excelled at sports like he did. These were

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<v Speaker 3>the guys who stood firmous against the establishment. Brown thought

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<v Speaker 3>against Jim Crow they didn't give a shit about white values.

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<v Speaker 3>The kid could talk trash with the best of them,

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<v Speaker 3>and they took the calling him Rap a moniker. That

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<v Speaker 3>stuck as he rose to public life. Most of the

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<v Speaker 3>folks I spoke with who knew AmAm Demil before he

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<v Speaker 3>became Muslim, they called him rap h Rap Brown.

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<v Speaker 4>So that's what I'll do too.

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<v Speaker 3>Rap bristled at Jim Crow's efforts to control his movements,

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<v Speaker 3>to limit the idea of what he could be, and

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<v Speaker 3>he bucked the system in the brashest way possible at

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<v Speaker 3>every opportunity. In his first book, a memoir called Die

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<v Speaker 3>Nigger Died not my favorite book title, Rap wrote that

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<v Speaker 3>he once went to a boy scout circus. It was segregated,

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<v Speaker 3>but nobody was going to warn Rap Brown that he

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<v Speaker 3>couldn't go see what the white boys were up to.

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<v Speaker 3>He walked over there and heard a white boy holler out, nigger,

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<v Speaker 3>you have been sentenced to death, and the boy started

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<v Speaker 3>shooting him with a B begun. The next year, Rap

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<v Speaker 3>brought his own bbgun to the circus. Rap grew up

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<v Speaker 3>to be a tall man, distinguished by his height six

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<v Speaker 3>foot five. He was thin, lanky, with dangling arms and

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<v Speaker 3>long fingers, but he moved smoothly through the world, almost

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<v Speaker 3>gliding as he walked his own kind of swat. He

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<v Speaker 3>was light skinned, a complexion that black folks used to

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<v Speaker 3>call red, similar to Malcolm X. He grew a short

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<v Speaker 3>afro and a mustache, wore a lot of dinnim, sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>a leather jacket. In the sixties, Rapp followed his brother

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<v Speaker 3>to Howard University in DC and got involved in organized activism.

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<v Speaker 3>He read thinkers like W. E. B. Du Bois and

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<v Speaker 3>Franz Feron and Frederick Douglass for the first time, and

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<v Speaker 3>eventually became a part of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee

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<v Speaker 3>that's the s NCC or SNICK. It was the most

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<v Speaker 3>prominent student group of the movement. While Rapp was a

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<v Speaker 3>part of SNICK, he grew close to a fellow fire

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<v Speaker 3>brand named Willie Rix or Mucassa Dada as he's known

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<v Speaker 3>these days. Mucassa eighty years old now hasn't lost much

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<v Speaker 3>of his fire.

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<v Speaker 7>Rap was always around and you would have encountered him personally.

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<v Speaker 4>You met him and hung out with him.

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<v Speaker 8>I met him with him smoked.

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<v Speaker 7>We used to smoke out herb and whatever and party

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<v Speaker 7>and whatever, and we fought together.

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<v Speaker 8>And Rap was a fighter and a warrior, and he

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<v Speaker 8>was in many, many battles.

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<v Speaker 3>Inside of Snick, the organization was working in the Black Belt,

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<v Speaker 3>a mostly rural swathe of counties across the South that

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<v Speaker 3>got its name from the black fertile soil there and

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<v Speaker 3>the Black people who live in the land since the

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<v Speaker 3>end of their enslavement. But despite their demographics, these mostly poor,

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<v Speaker 3>majority black counties were still controlled by white people. So

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<v Speaker 3>Snickson and organizers Mucasa was one of them, and so

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<v Speaker 3>was Rap.

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<v Speaker 7>The first thing organized have to do is find a

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<v Speaker 7>place to eat, find a place to sleep, and also

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<v Speaker 7>find local leadership.

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<v Speaker 8>If not there, you have to creating.

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<v Speaker 3>Lowndes County, Alabama, where both a RAP and Mucasa worked,

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<v Speaker 3>was the center of the struggle. Black folks there lived

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<v Speaker 3>in wood shacks out on the flat grassy plains, sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>near pine and oak forests.

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<v Speaker 4>The outnumbered white.

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<v Speaker 3>People four to one, but few, if any, of the

0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.480
<v Speaker 3>more than five thousand eligible black voters in Lowndes County

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.440
<v Speaker 3>were registered to vote. Landowners evicted black people who tried

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 3>to register, and night writers fired shots into the.

0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:23.160
<v Speaker 4>Homes of local leaders. While Snick was organizing.

0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.480
<v Speaker 3>In Lowndes County, a sheriff's deputy killed a volunteer working

0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:31.360
<v Speaker 3>closely with the organization. In the nineteen sixties, at least

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.920
<v Speaker 3>twenty civil rights activists were killed, a conservative estimate that

0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.800
<v Speaker 3>doesn't include the hundreds of people who were injured and threatened.

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.920
<v Speaker 3>SNICK is widely remembered for non violence. Of course, it

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.640
<v Speaker 3>did have the word non violent in its name, but

0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.720
<v Speaker 3>as I've learned more about the organization, that's really only

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.880
<v Speaker 3>part of the story. Mukasa puts it pretty simply.

0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.240
<v Speaker 7>We used none violent as a tactic, where doctor King

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.320
<v Speaker 7>used it as a will of life and what whatever.

0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.240
<v Speaker 7>And we said if we'd do it in front of

0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 7>let a white man hit us in front of a camera,

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.480
<v Speaker 7>but if they hit us in the camera and there,

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.880
<v Speaker 7>we're gonna fuck him up. If they file us around

0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:10.240
<v Speaker 7>the column, we're gonna fuck him up.

0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.840
<v Speaker 3>Mucassa isn't speaking for everyone. Other SNICK organizers may have

0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.680
<v Speaker 3>seen it differently, but Mucassa and rap they were prepared

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 3>to defend themselves with violence if necessary, and this was

0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.400
<v Speaker 3>in line with many of the locals they were working with,

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.160
<v Speaker 3>Black people living in the Black Belt in Lownes County

0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 3>kept shotguns next to their front doors or handguns next

0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.280
<v Speaker 3>to their beds, and some snack activists carried guns with them.

0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.680
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, we U should go out and fit in the backyards

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 7>and practice shooting and all that cast up all the time.

0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 3>But did you ever have to fire your weapon in

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 3>the confrontation?

0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 8>Absolutely about tamen.

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, we'd we'd ride down the street and white folks

0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 7>jump behind us and started shooting.

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.240
<v Speaker 8>We ain't out there and started shooting back.

0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.200
<v Speaker 3>Rap had carried a gun for years, got us first

0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.640
<v Speaker 3>one at fourteen after a run in with some white boys.

0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.440
<v Speaker 3>He stole it from a sporting goods store. Rap wrote

0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.280
<v Speaker 3>in his autobiography, give me a gun before you even

0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 3>give me somebody to work with. A gun won't fail you.

0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.520
<v Speaker 3>People will who costs us of it. Once, when Rap

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.000
<v Speaker 3>was organizing in the Alabama, some of the black folks

0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.120
<v Speaker 3>who had registered to vote were kicked off their land.

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.000
<v Speaker 3>So they set up a tense city and then white

0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 3>people attacked.

0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.240
<v Speaker 7>And the white wo come by attens and shooting an attense.

0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.560
<v Speaker 8>So Rap, you should have fire him back up.

0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.760
<v Speaker 7>Some white man got shot over there, wrapped their Hell yeah,

0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:35.680
<v Speaker 7>we shouted.

0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.000
<v Speaker 3>Rap gained a reputation within Snick and across the Black

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.760
<v Speaker 3>Belt for fearlessness and for his speeches that encouraged and

0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 3>inspired people to stand up for themselves. A year after

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.240
<v Speaker 3>Snick started working in Lowndes County in Earnest, the local

0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 3>leaders organized their own political party, the Lowndes County Freedom Organization.

0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.560
<v Speaker 3>They made a black panther their symbol, inspiring activists in

0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:04.399
<v Speaker 3>Californi who would later found the Black Panther Party. In

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:09.119
<v Speaker 3>nineteen sixty six, despite intimidation, sixteen hundred people in Lounges.

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.199
<v Speaker 4>County voted for the new party.

0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.520
<v Speaker 3>They wanted to take down the sheriff given the violence

0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.720
<v Speaker 3>against black people, and elect their own candidate, but no

0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.080
<v Speaker 3>one on the party ticket won. It was this same

0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.200
<v Speaker 3>year that Snick began peeling away more publicly from doctor

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.520
<v Speaker 3>Martin Luther King Junior in his rallying cry of freedom.

0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:34.440
<v Speaker 3>Now Snick's new rallying cry was black power. The next year,

0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.840
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen sixty seven, rap became Snick's chairman and was

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:44.760
<v Speaker 3>named an honorary officer of the Black Panther Party. Now

0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.480
<v Speaker 3>Rapp wasn't just traveling around the Black Belt. He was

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 3>chairman traveling around the nation at speeches and press conferences

0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 3>like this one, he shocked many Americans black and.

0:17:55.400 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 9>White violence is a plot of America's culture, is as

0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:04.280
<v Speaker 9>American as cherry pie. We will use that violin to

0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.119
<v Speaker 9>rid ourselves of oppression if necessary.

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.120
<v Speaker 3>And his speeches, rap boldly explained the mindset he thought

0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.800
<v Speaker 3>was necessary for real change in the country where racism

0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 3>was a part of the bedrock.

0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:17.919
<v Speaker 9>We did not make the laws in this country. We

0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.840
<v Speaker 9>are neither, Marley, not legally confined to those laws, those

0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 9>laws that keep them up keep us down.

0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:25.880
<v Speaker 8>You got to begin to understand that.

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.439
<v Speaker 3>It was a revolution and the object was not for

0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.160
<v Speaker 3>black people to simply replace white people at the top

0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:40.680
<v Speaker 3>of the heap. Rapid As comrades wanted to toss out

0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 3>the systems the country ran on capitalism and all they

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.600
<v Speaker 3>saw a grand conflict between black people and the government

0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.080
<v Speaker 3>controlled by white people, a government that used police and

0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.120
<v Speaker 3>law enforcement like a domestic military force to maintain control.

0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.320
<v Speaker 9>And wan end in the Swahili saying, it says losima

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.320
<v Speaker 9>to sinda be lost you eli shakak which means we

0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:03.800
<v Speaker 9>shall concer without a doubt.

0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 8>Black power.

0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 3>Mukasa was Wrap's right hand man.

0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.879
<v Speaker 7>I was assigned to travel rap wherever he would go.

0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.919
<v Speaker 7>And that we started traveling, and as we traveled throughout

0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.800
<v Speaker 7>different areas everywhere would go to cities would be on fire,

0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:32.920
<v Speaker 7>catching on fire. Right after we leave, he would go

0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.320
<v Speaker 7>out in the battlefields and go out there with them

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.880
<v Speaker 7>folks doing five arms and fighting and burning and whatever.

0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 7>And he would always ready to go do that. And

0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.760
<v Speaker 7>whenever he talked, he go with him. And when the

0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.800
<v Speaker 7>rebellions started wrapped beyond the front line.

0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.040
<v Speaker 3>In nineteen sixty seven, there were at least seventy five

0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.159
<v Speaker 3>uprisings or rebellions and cities across the country, from San

0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.200
<v Speaker 3>Francisco to Cincinnati to New York.

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.160
<v Speaker 4>People took to the streets.

0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.159
<v Speaker 7>Even Doctor King and his organization field rep Brown so

0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 7>much that even if he wasn't nowhere around, that was

0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.040
<v Speaker 7>gonna be somebody in the crowd let's say black power

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.520
<v Speaker 7>and throw a brick or throw a brick at the police.

0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.080
<v Speaker 7>And the police didn't discriminate, they didn't running there and

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:20.120
<v Speaker 7>stop beating them all.

0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.560
<v Speaker 3>As part of cointelpro the FBI's program aimed at preventing

0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.439
<v Speaker 3>the rise of a so called black messiah. The Bureau

0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.959
<v Speaker 3>used dirty tricks to disrupt SNICK and other black power groups.

0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 4>Agents began surveilling.

0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.240
<v Speaker 3>A Rap and apparently targeted him with trumped up or

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.359
<v Speaker 3>entirely fabricated criminal charges. The conflict seemed to reach a

0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.879
<v Speaker 3>climax when a car bomb exploded, killing two SNACK activists.

0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.200
<v Speaker 3>There were conflicting theories about what happened, but it looked

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:48.919
<v Speaker 3>like the bomb was.

0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.240
<v Speaker 4>Meant to assassinate Rap. He went into hide it.

0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:59.280
<v Speaker 7>Police departments, the United States government and their agents they

0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.399
<v Speaker 7>hated reput all the way to death.

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.840
<v Speaker 3>In nineteen seventy one, after more than a year underground,

0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.720
<v Speaker 3>Rap was arrested in New York City. I won't get

0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.600
<v Speaker 3>into the particulars of that arrest now, just know that

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.679
<v Speaker 3>he got popped on an arm robbery charge. He and

0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:18.920
<v Speaker 3>some friends were sticking up a lounge to help further

0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.119
<v Speaker 3>their activities in the movement, a caper that ended in

0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:23.800
<v Speaker 3>a shootout with cops.

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:25.480
<v Speaker 4>Rap twenty eight.

0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 3>Years old, went to jail Rikers Island and eventually landed

0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.399
<v Speaker 3>at Attica Prison. Tough places to say the least, but

0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:34.680
<v Speaker 3>it's hard to imagine Rap living much longer if he

0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 3>hadn't stepped back from the front lines. Death was certainly

0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 3>something he prepared for and maybe even welcomed. In that autobiography,

0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.560
<v Speaker 3>it was published two years before rap was locked up,

0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:58.120
<v Speaker 3>he wrote, America, if it takes my death to organize

0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:01.359
<v Speaker 3>my people to revolt against you, and to organize your

0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.800
<v Speaker 3>jails to revolt against you, and to organize your troops

0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:08.080
<v Speaker 3>to revolt against you, and to organize your children to

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.679
<v Speaker 3>revolt against you, and to organize your God to revolt

0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.080
<v Speaker 3>against you, and to organize your poor to revolt against you,

0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:19.520
<v Speaker 3>and to organize your country to revolt against you, and

0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.080
<v Speaker 3>to organize mankind to rejoice in your destruction and ruin,

0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:30.520
<v Speaker 3>then here is my life. But within weeks, maybe months,

0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:34.640
<v Speaker 3>of his arrest, that seemed to change. He converted to Islam.

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.480
<v Speaker 3>A transformation was underway. Some would even say the creation

0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 3>of a new man, Jamil, Beautiful Abdullah, servant of God,

0:22:47.119 --> 0:23:10.119
<v Speaker 3>Alamin the Trustworthy. My own conversion to Islam happened in

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:16.400
<v Speaker 3>the fifth grade. We'd been Baptist and Pentecostal, and then

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.840
<v Speaker 3>my father found new faith and he wanted all of us,

0:23:20.160 --> 0:23:24.159
<v Speaker 3>my mom and two younger siblings to follow suit. My

0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.159
<v Speaker 3>parents put me out of public school and sent me

0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:29.560
<v Speaker 3>to a Muslim private school. I got so being out

0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.240
<v Speaker 3>of shape by the change that during my second week

0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:34.520
<v Speaker 3>at the new school, I got super sick and had

0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:38.359
<v Speaker 3>to stay home. When I felt better, my parents finally

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.320
<v Speaker 3>let me go back to public school and joined my

0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:45.280
<v Speaker 3>old friends. In time, I accepted Islam for a good while.

0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:46.879
<v Speaker 4>Anyway, I made.

0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:50.639
<v Speaker 3>My salots and facet for Ramadan, but I always occupied

0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.920
<v Speaker 3>this weird in between spot, not fitting in all the

0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:56.280
<v Speaker 3>way with the Muslim kids and feeling different from my

0:23:56.359 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 3>non Muslim friends. An insider, outsider in both way worlds,

0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:07.080
<v Speaker 3>an observer. When I went to college, I studied comparative religion,

0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 3>trying on other beliefs. I realize pretty young that what

0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 3>we believe, the way we structure our worlds, and the

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:17.080
<v Speaker 3>stories we tell ourselves, all of that can be totally

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:18.679
<v Speaker 3>changed with the flip.

0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:18.960
<v Speaker 4>Of a switch.

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.200
<v Speaker 3>Part of why I pursued writing when I graduated college,

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:26.879
<v Speaker 3>and why I'm so drawn to complex stories like this,

0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 3>is because I sense the power stories.

0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:30.960
<v Speaker 4>Have over our lives.

0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.080
<v Speaker 3>What are myths but stories we believe in? With cosmic

0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:43.119
<v Speaker 3>stakes and Ma'am Jimille's conversion, his flip of that switch

0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:47.639
<v Speaker 3>was obviously pivotal in his life. But what kind of

0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 3>man did it make him? Rap, the man who was

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:55.040
<v Speaker 3>throwing fire bombs in the streets, who people believe escaped

0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:58.679
<v Speaker 3>an assassination attempt by the federal government. I can imagine

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.800
<v Speaker 3>him shooting sheriff's deputies coming into his neighborhood to arrest him.

0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:06.800
<v Speaker 3>But a Mam Jamil, all these years later, that was

0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:12.040
<v Speaker 3>much less clear. Converting to Islam. It was something I

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.280
<v Speaker 3>shared with a Ma'am Jamil, something my family shared with him,

0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:18.800
<v Speaker 3>and something that connected us to lots of other African Americans.

0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:23.960
<v Speaker 10>We believe anywhere from twenty to thirty percent of the

0:25:24.040 --> 0:25:29.160
<v Speaker 10>African slaves were either Muslim or exposed Islam in West Africa.

0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:33.600
<v Speaker 3>This is a man Pleman Elamine, maybe the most prominent

0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:37.360
<v Speaker 3>elder in Atlanta's African American Muslim community and the peer

0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:40.920
<v Speaker 3>of a Mam Jamil. A man Pleman believes that through

0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 3>our ancestors, Black people have a deep and innate connection

0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:49.640
<v Speaker 3>to Islam, like it's somewhere in our DNA. And when

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:52.679
<v Speaker 3>Rap became Muslim in jail, he was joining something ever tradition.

0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:56.320
<v Speaker 3>Because the history of African American Islam is linked to

0:25:56.400 --> 0:26:01.400
<v Speaker 3>incarceration and to the Nation of Islam, the black nationalist

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 3>organization found in the nineteen thirties. The Nation did a

0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:08.600
<v Speaker 3>lot of ministry in prisons. Its message that the white

0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.880
<v Speaker 3>man was a devil resonated with black people living under

0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:15.560
<v Speaker 3>the yoke of oppression. Malcolm extrajoined the Nation when he

0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:18.639
<v Speaker 3>was in prison, and after he got out, eventually became

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 3>its spokesperson. But like many others, he left the organization

0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:26.359
<v Speaker 3>for Sunni Islam, which is more closely based on the Qur'an.

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:31.239
<v Speaker 3>The vast majority of the world's Muslims are Sunni, and

0:26:31.280 --> 0:26:34.240
<v Speaker 3>as new sects of Sunni Islam developed in the United States,

0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:36.560
<v Speaker 3>they also recruited in prisons.

0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:40.240
<v Speaker 10>When people in prison, they have to have to think,

0:26:40.280 --> 0:26:43.080
<v Speaker 10>you know, really, that's Malcolm. He came to Islam by

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:46.320
<v Speaker 10>being in prison and just studying and reading and trying

0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:49.240
<v Speaker 10>to come with some solutions. So that's been a tradition

0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:55.200
<v Speaker 10>in our community and where gangs are really dominant in prisons,

0:26:55.080 --> 0:26:57.760
<v Speaker 10>and many folks see the salvation as being a Muslim,

0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:01.920
<v Speaker 10>so they get the protection of the brotherhood or even

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:09.040
<v Speaker 10>the sisterhood. And it's also a great productive way of spinning.

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:11.040
<v Speaker 4>Your time organizing your time, organizing your days.

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:16.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a Sunni movement called dar

0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:20.200
<v Speaker 3>Ul Islam that reached Rap. Darul was based at Amasthid

0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 3>in the Beverid Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn, not.

0:27:22.880 --> 0:27:23.960
<v Speaker 4>Far from where I live now.

0:27:24.000 --> 0:27:27.720
<v Speaker 3>Actually, Daroul used to send men to minister to inmates

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:31.080
<v Speaker 3>of the notorious Rikers Island jail where Rap was being held,

0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:34.280
<v Speaker 3>and those men met Rap at a moment when he

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:36.280
<v Speaker 3>was trying to make sense of what was happening in

0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 3>him and around him. Rapp said the fact that Malcolm

0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:42.840
<v Speaker 3>X converted to Islam made him take it more seriously.

0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:46.879
<v Speaker 3>The men from dar Oul organized Friday Juma services at

0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:51.040
<v Speaker 3>Rikers and Rap attended. In nineteen seventy one, he took

0:27:51.080 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 3>the Shahada, the oath to become Muslim. When he got

0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:58.679
<v Speaker 3>out of prison. In nineteen seventy six, a man Jamil

0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:01.879
<v Speaker 3>made the pilgrimage to Mecca and completed the Hodge. He

0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 3>moved to Atlanta, and not long after he arrived he

0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.800
<v Speaker 3>founded the Western Community Master, and Man Cleman was a

0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:09.440
<v Speaker 3>leader at another Master across town.

0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:15.000
<v Speaker 10>I had the role of keeping a relationship with AmAm

0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:21.640
<v Speaker 10>Jamil always found him very very Islamic, but always very

0:28:21.680 --> 0:28:31.080
<v Speaker 10>polite and uh wonderful hospitality, and it's really very decent person.

0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:33.520
<v Speaker 3>How much of what he was doing in the West

0:28:33.640 --> 0:28:35.520
<v Speaker 3>End did you see as a continuation of who he

0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:37.560
<v Speaker 3>had been before or was it a departure.

0:28:38.120 --> 0:28:40.360
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, No, he made a complete change.

0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:41.640
<v Speaker 8>He made a complete change.

0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 3>But I see it as the prophet at my question

0:28:46.520 --> 0:28:49.160
<v Speaker 3>reminded the man cleman of a hadith a teaching from

0:28:49.200 --> 0:28:49.640
<v Speaker 3>the prophet.

0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:54.040
<v Speaker 4>Behind came a follower asked a prophet a question. We

0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:55.200
<v Speaker 4>all have genes.

0:28:55.400 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 10>The gen that is really is the identity that earth

0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:05.719
<v Speaker 10>the devil is this fiery nature, the passionate nature that

0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:10.120
<v Speaker 10>is willing to reject God. And the prophet said, yes,

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:13.360
<v Speaker 10>we all have gens, even myself. But I've made my

0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:17.200
<v Speaker 10>gin a Muslim. So there's Mohammed the prophet saying that

0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:20.320
<v Speaker 10>he's made his gin a Muslim. So I see Jamil

0:29:20.440 --> 0:29:23.560
<v Speaker 10>in the same way that he had this fiery nature

0:29:23.560 --> 0:29:28.160
<v Speaker 10>of h rap brown, and he didn't just give it

0:29:28.240 --> 0:29:29.040
<v Speaker 10>up and let it go.

0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:30.920
<v Speaker 4>He just made it a Muslim.

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:35.240
<v Speaker 10>So he got the advantages of having that passionate, fiery pod,

0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:40.240
<v Speaker 10>but it was always under a control then, and he

0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:42.720
<v Speaker 10>was made a total conversion.

0:29:44.720 --> 0:29:47.480
<v Speaker 3>If a man Jamil had made a total conversion, if

0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:51.280
<v Speaker 3>his gin his devil, his fire was always under control.

0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:54.360
<v Speaker 3>It was hard to see him shooting two sheriff's deputies.

0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:57.720
<v Speaker 3>But if he ever let the fire of rap Brown loose,

0:29:58.000 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 3>I thought I might find the embers burning in the

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:04.320
<v Speaker 3>West the community a manager Meal founded and led Rahap's

0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:06.880
<v Speaker 3>vision that at least seems to have made its mark

0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:09.520
<v Speaker 3>on the new Muslim village. So much of what the

0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:12.560
<v Speaker 3>community aspired to be and often became a place of

0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:15.200
<v Speaker 3>their own where black people could govern themselves, where they

0:30:15.200 --> 0:30:18.160
<v Speaker 3>could thrive and feel safe to raise their children. That

0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:21.840
<v Speaker 3>echoed the black nationalist's ideal. But that kind of utopia

0:30:21.960 --> 0:30:28.080
<v Speaker 3>didn't just materialize. There were too many obstacles. It took work, faith, passion.

0:30:29.200 --> 0:30:32.160
<v Speaker 3>Had a manmaged Meal ever leaned on his old demons too.

0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:52.040
<v Speaker 3>I spent some time around the weston mass Yet when

0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:54.560
<v Speaker 3>I was a kid, maybe popping in with my father

0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.560
<v Speaker 3>to make prayer a few times, but mostly I would

0:30:57.560 --> 0:30:59.920
<v Speaker 3>have seen a manager Meal at the e the islam

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:02.640
<v Speaker 3>holidays when Muslims from all over the city would gather

0:31:02.720 --> 0:31:06.400
<v Speaker 3>to pray, and Mama Jamil always stood out there among

0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:12.920
<v Speaker 3>thousands because he carried this sword like a scimitar, and

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:14.200
<v Speaker 3>he towered over everyone.

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:20.080
<v Speaker 4>He's six foot five. Imagining that as a kid, and.

0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:22.680
<v Speaker 3>I did go to this week long military style boot

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 3>camp wanted a Maam Jamil used to organize in the

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:28.600
<v Speaker 3>North Georgia Mountains. I must have been twelve or thirteen,

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:31.080
<v Speaker 3>and I could not have been more out of my element.

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:34.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how to put this politely, but a

0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:36.200
<v Speaker 3>lot of the other boys were drawn to life in

0:31:36.240 --> 0:31:38.720
<v Speaker 3>the streets, and that was the last thing I was

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:41.760
<v Speaker 3>interested in. Later I would learn that some of them

0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 3>were already in the streets shooting, robbing. There was something

0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:51.920
<v Speaker 3>different about the Muslim boys from the West End. Most

0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 3>often I would see them on sports teams. Abdusamad Jahad,

0:31:56.520 --> 0:31:58.000
<v Speaker 3>the kid who was in the matchet on the night

0:31:58.000 --> 0:32:00.640
<v Speaker 3>of the shootout, we were on the track team together.

0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:04.880
<v Speaker 3>He reminded me about his mother, sister Jamila, who always

0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 3>came to our meets. He told me that she would

0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:09.560
<v Speaker 3>be a great person to talk with about what it

0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:11.560
<v Speaker 3>was like living in the West End while a Ma'am

0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:12.920
<v Speaker 3>Jamil was leading the community.

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:14.280
<v Speaker 4>Hi, how are you doing?

0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:16.320
<v Speaker 8>Yes?

0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:24.360
<v Speaker 3>Now, your face looks familiar. Wow, now I remember you.

0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:27.280
<v Speaker 8>Sister.

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 3>Jamila grew up in Atlanta and went to Clark Atlanta University.

0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:33.160
<v Speaker 3>It's one of the historically black colleges that bordered the

0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:36.440
<v Speaker 3>West End. When she was still in college, Jamila took

0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 3>the shahada from my mam Jamil.

0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:44.400
<v Speaker 2>We went into the mess yet and he asked me,

0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:45.720
<v Speaker 2>why anyone forcing me.

0:32:45.720 --> 0:32:46.560
<v Speaker 8>To become Muslim.

0:32:46.640 --> 0:32:49.520
<v Speaker 2>I said no, you know, so he told me, you know,

0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:52.560
<v Speaker 2>to testify that there's no guard but a law, you know.

0:32:53.480 --> 0:32:57.760
<v Speaker 2>And I became Muslim. I felt free. I felt so happy,

0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:02.040
<v Speaker 2>and he became more like a uncle father figure for

0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:06.960
<v Speaker 2>me because I was eighteen and I was you know.

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:09.240
<v Speaker 2>He had a corner store at that time, so I

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 2>would go into the store and talk to him, and

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:17.000
<v Speaker 2>I felt like, Okay, this is my new family, you know.

0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:20.600
<v Speaker 3>And Mam Jamil ran that corner store Jamila mentioned, just

0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 3>across the street from the mass Jed and across another

0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:24.480
<v Speaker 3>street from Weston Park.

0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:26.080
<v Speaker 4>During the day, a.

0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:28.800
<v Speaker 3>Mam Jamil might play basketball with kids from the neighborhood.

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:32.400
<v Speaker 3>Everyone says he could really ball. He talked to people

0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:35.680
<v Speaker 3>who came into the store or chill outside, maybe sitting

0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:39.520
<v Speaker 3>at a picnic table, greeting neighbors as they walked by, offering.

0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:40.200
<v Speaker 4>Them counsel.

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:43.480
<v Speaker 3>And the Mam Jamil led the daily prayers in the

0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:46.360
<v Speaker 3>mass Jed and delivered sermons during their Friday Juma services.

0:33:49.560 --> 0:33:51.520
<v Speaker 3>A member of the mass Jed shared some recordings of

0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 3>his sermons with us.

0:33:54.680 --> 0:33:58.360
<v Speaker 11>How do we increase our remembrance of a law? It

0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:02.600
<v Speaker 11>is through the establishment of lot, through the prayer and

0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:07.040
<v Speaker 11>the maintaining of the prayer and the punctuality in coming

0:34:07.080 --> 0:34:07.560
<v Speaker 11>to prayer.

0:34:08.120 --> 0:34:10.759
<v Speaker 3>The message he was giving to the faithful, attend prayer

0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:13.080
<v Speaker 3>as much as you can take care of your families

0:34:13.160 --> 0:34:14.640
<v Speaker 3>and care for others in the Masjed.

0:34:15.560 --> 0:34:18.279
<v Speaker 12>You have to begin to practice your prayer now in

0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:23.360
<v Speaker 12>congregation because this is afforded to you. But when the

0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:26.759
<v Speaker 12>repression comes, it might be a situation where you might

0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:29.080
<v Speaker 12>as in many different countries, you have to move around

0:34:29.400 --> 0:34:32.120
<v Speaker 12>and move your places of congregational prayer.

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:35.560
<v Speaker 11>But right now you don't have to do that, But

0:34:35.640 --> 0:34:36.640
<v Speaker 11>that might be the case.

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:40.040
<v Speaker 3>AmAm Demil tried to create something like a village in

0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:44.800
<v Speaker 3>the West End. The Masjed hosted festivals and barbecues. Jamila

0:34:44.800 --> 0:34:47.120
<v Speaker 3>started a summer camp for elementary school kids and hired

0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:51.040
<v Speaker 3>teenagers as counselors. It was all centered around the masjed

0:34:51.360 --> 0:34:55.560
<v Speaker 3>and around the daily prayers five times each day. Jimill

0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 3>remembers that part of the community most fondly.

0:34:58.719 --> 0:34:59.960
<v Speaker 8>It was a beautiful thing.

0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:02.799
<v Speaker 2>Means to see the brothers going to prayer, you know,

0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:06.200
<v Speaker 2>but a dyn call and you see the brothers walking

0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:10.160
<v Speaker 2>to the messget brothers coming out of the house. You know.

0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:12.160
<v Speaker 2>It was a beautiful thing.

0:35:13.840 --> 0:35:15.719
<v Speaker 3>A man and Jamil also assign a group of men

0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:18.960
<v Speaker 3>to do armed security patrols of the neighborhood to establish

0:35:18.960 --> 0:35:21.440
<v Speaker 3>a perimeter to keep out the drug dealing and the prostitution.

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:24.880
<v Speaker 3>The eighties and nineties, this was the height of the

0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:29.279
<v Speaker 3>crack epandemic in the community. The Mastered they were right

0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 3>in the thick of it. There are some of the

0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:34.759
<v Speaker 3>busiest drug corners on the West Side. Addicted people used

0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:36.320
<v Speaker 3>to roam the streets like zombies.

0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:38.399
<v Speaker 4>A few people told me, but.

0:35:38.440 --> 0:35:41.920
<v Speaker 3>West End Park, a public park, remember, became known as

0:35:41.960 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 3>Holy Land. You better now tread on that land if

0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:50.279
<v Speaker 3>you have no business being there. There were consequences. The

0:35:50.400 --> 0:35:53.520
<v Speaker 3>rules for members of the community were strict too. The

0:35:53.600 --> 0:35:57.680
<v Speaker 3>women wore long dresses and hijab. Men wore thogues and coofies.

0:35:58.480 --> 0:36:00.920
<v Speaker 3>Women were supposed to get permission from their husband before

0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:04.400
<v Speaker 3>leaving the house, but for Jamilla, at least, that's not

0:36:04.480 --> 0:36:07.239
<v Speaker 3>how it worked in practice. She was close enough to

0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:08.920
<v Speaker 3>a Mama Jamil to have some sway.

0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:12.720
<v Speaker 2>His sisters used to come to me and ask email Jamil,

0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 2>can we do such and such? I said, okay, you know,

0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:19.600
<v Speaker 2>so like I said that uncle father figured. And he

0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:23.160
<v Speaker 2>was almost often all the time he said yes, yes,

0:36:23.239 --> 0:36:23.800
<v Speaker 2>go ahead.

0:36:23.880 --> 0:36:29.200
<v Speaker 3>You know, Ma'am Jamil was in control, and he could

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:31.480
<v Speaker 3>monitor what was happening near the mast, did in his

0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:34.080
<v Speaker 3>corner store, and on the streets and in the houses

0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:37.439
<v Speaker 3>that surrounded the park. I asked a man cleaning about

0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:39.640
<v Speaker 3>the amount of authority in Mama Jamil seemed to have

0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:40.560
<v Speaker 3>over the West End.

0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 8>Madam Jamil took it literally that in that community.

0:36:49.160 --> 0:36:53.040
<v Speaker 10>Now, not saying internationally all over the world or whatever,

0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:56.040
<v Speaker 10>but in his community he was the representative of the

0:36:56.080 --> 0:36:59.600
<v Speaker 10>prophet Mahobbit Press peace Field Honey, and so he expected

0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:04.160
<v Speaker 10>the same kind of respect from his community as.

0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:06.400
<v Speaker 8>They would give to the prophet.

0:37:07.280 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 10>And then it became an issue when somebody was ignoring

0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.080
<v Speaker 10>that leadership or going against that leadership.

0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 3>Over time, a man Jamil gained a reputation in Atlanta

0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:21.520
<v Speaker 3>for quote cleaning up.

0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:22.120
<v Speaker 4>The West End.

0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:25.759
<v Speaker 3>From the outside, at least it appeared that he had

0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:27.719
<v Speaker 3>secured his peace without violence.

0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:33.399
<v Speaker 2>It was family, orented. You know, everyone was close knit.

0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:34.479
<v Speaker 12>It was.

0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Really close. I'm sorry, Oh yeah, it was family. Everyone

0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:53.240
<v Speaker 2>loved each other, everyone cared. The sisterhood were very strong,

0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:58.480
<v Speaker 2>and no matter what happened, we was there for one another.

0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:01.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, we was there.

0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:02.400
<v Speaker 11>For women him.

0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:04.600
<v Speaker 8>I'm sorry, yeah, you moved.

0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:05.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry.

0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

0:38:06.080 --> 0:38:08.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:12.080
<v Speaker 3>Now I'm hearing what Sister Jamila is saying about the

0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.319
<v Speaker 3>beauty and peace of the community, and I'm hearing what

0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:18.200
<v Speaker 3>a man Pleman is saying about rap making his fiery nature,

0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:23.560
<v Speaker 3>his gin, his devil a Muslim. It seems like some

0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:25.799
<v Speaker 3>ways that a Mam Jamil would have thrown away if

0:38:25.840 --> 0:38:29.799
<v Speaker 3>he shot those sheriff's deputies, his own little paradise that

0:38:29.920 --> 0:38:30.640
<v Speaker 3>he controlled.

0:38:31.560 --> 0:38:34.400
<v Speaker 4>Why would he do that? It just doesn't make sense.

0:38:35.480 --> 0:38:36.720
<v Speaker 4>I must be missing something.

0:38:37.840 --> 0:38:41.040
<v Speaker 3>Either a man Jamil's transformation from h rap Brown wasn't

0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:44.000
<v Speaker 3>as complete as some would have us believe, or the

0:38:44.040 --> 0:38:47.879
<v Speaker 3>West End was never really that peaceful or something had

0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:51.040
<v Speaker 3>thrown him off kilter, or was it just that he

0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:53.319
<v Speaker 3>wasn't involved in the shooting as he's been saying for

0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:56.200
<v Speaker 3>decades now, there's got to be more to it.

0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:04.479
<v Speaker 4>Maybe I just.

0:39:04.360 --> 0:39:06.319
<v Speaker 3>Needed to talk to more people who lived in the

0:39:06.320 --> 0:39:09.240
<v Speaker 3>West End. So I went to a guy named Balao

0:39:09.320 --> 0:39:12.920
<v Speaker 3>Suni Ali. He knew both a Maam Jimil and h

0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:16.120
<v Speaker 3>Rap Brown. In the sixties, Blow was a member of

0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:18.879
<v Speaker 3>the Black Panther Party in New York City and that's

0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:19.959
<v Speaker 3>where he first met Rap.

0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:24.080
<v Speaker 13>He was talking to talk that I wanted to hear about,

0:39:24.200 --> 0:39:32.680
<v Speaker 13>you know, us controlling our neighborhood, you know, community self determination.

0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:38.520
<v Speaker 13>I mean that's what black power is. Black people control

0:39:39.200 --> 0:39:45.719
<v Speaker 13>the economics in the politics of an area where we live.

0:39:47.000 --> 0:39:50.200
<v Speaker 3>For Balal and Rap, part of creating that community meant

0:39:50.239 --> 0:39:53.920
<v Speaker 3>securing it themselves. They trained their comrades on how to

0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:56.400
<v Speaker 3>handle guns and they did target practice.

0:39:56.920 --> 0:39:59.319
<v Speaker 13>It was empowering to grow up as a class where

0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 13>he a person and now you've taken the power within

0:40:04.160 --> 0:40:07.080
<v Speaker 13>your hands to defend yourself. So you know that this

0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:11.600
<v Speaker 13>level of persecution is not going to continue. You know

0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:13.880
<v Speaker 13>it's not going to be my children are not going

0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:14.440
<v Speaker 13>to grow.

0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:14.799
<v Speaker 8>Up like this.

0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:18.400
<v Speaker 3>In the eighties, Blao moved to the West End and

0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:21.600
<v Speaker 3>he joined the mass Jed. Blaugh told me there were

0:40:21.600 --> 0:40:24.200
<v Speaker 3>at least two things Rapp didn't like and the man

0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:29.600
<v Speaker 3>Jamil didn't like. Drugs and cops. Both came into black

0:40:29.600 --> 0:40:33.040
<v Speaker 3>communities from the outside and tore them apart. And many

0:40:33.080 --> 0:40:34.640
<v Speaker 3>of the people who moved into the West End to

0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:38.080
<v Speaker 3>join the mass Jed from black working class neighborhoods in Detroit,

0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:43.120
<v Speaker 3>New York and Philadelphia. They had experienced that. On the

0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:45.880
<v Speaker 3>nine of March sixteenth, two thousand, Blao was in the

0:40:45.880 --> 0:40:49.600
<v Speaker 3>neighborhood at his house. He heard the gunfire near the

0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:52.280
<v Speaker 3>mass Jed and when he learned two deputies were shot.

0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:55.080
<v Speaker 3>The way he sees it, the blame shouldn't fall in

0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:58.080
<v Speaker 3>the shooter or anyone in the community. It should fall

0:40:58.080 --> 0:40:58.319
<v Speaker 3>in the.

0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 13>Deputies sign that they was coming in and they was wrong,

0:41:03.440 --> 0:41:05.800
<v Speaker 13>because most of the time they come in and they're wrong.

0:41:06.680 --> 0:41:10.360
<v Speaker 13>If they get stopped for doing wrong, they deserve what

0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:11.160
<v Speaker 13>happened to them.

0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:14.920
<v Speaker 3>The idea that a man Jamil might shoot at police

0:41:15.600 --> 0:41:17.680
<v Speaker 3>it seemed in line with what blal knew of the man.

0:41:18.680 --> 0:41:20.839
<v Speaker 3>But in this case, he didn't think that a man

0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:23.600
<v Speaker 3>Jamil was the one who did it because he said he.

0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 4>Didn't do it.

0:41:25.400 --> 0:41:28.200
<v Speaker 13>I knew that what they were saying he was capable of,

0:41:28.719 --> 0:41:30.960
<v Speaker 13>But when I heard him say he didn't do that,

0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:35.160
<v Speaker 13>I believed he didn't do it, Just like when he

0:41:35.239 --> 0:41:39.439
<v Speaker 13>said anything else any other time, I believe he ain't

0:41:39.440 --> 0:41:40.239
<v Speaker 13>never lied to me.

0:41:41.440 --> 0:41:45.080
<v Speaker 3>So the way Blal saw it, a man Jamil was

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:47.759
<v Speaker 3>capable of shooting the deputies, but he didn't do it.

0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:52.760
<v Speaker 3>What a contradiction. That left me with a lot more questions.

0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:55.560
<v Speaker 4>But I did realize the two biggest questions I.

0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:58.080
<v Speaker 3>Had been thinking about what actually happened the night of

0:41:58.120 --> 0:42:00.440
<v Speaker 3>the shootout and who was a man Jimil?

0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:00.760
<v Speaker 8>Really?

0:42:01.400 --> 0:42:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Those questions were totally entangled. As peb allows other contention

0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:10.240
<v Speaker 3>that AmAm Jamil was wrongfully convicted. Lots of people believe

0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:15.880
<v Speaker 3>that thousands, tens of thousands. Maybe when I was younger,

0:42:16.320 --> 0:42:18.560
<v Speaker 3>I did a big investigation that helped free an innocent

0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:21.640
<v Speaker 3>man from prison, and the reporting mostly consisted of listening

0:42:21.680 --> 0:42:24.480
<v Speaker 3>to the folks who never stopped believing and tracking down

0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:27.800
<v Speaker 3>their leads. A Ma'am Jimial's case would be much bigger

0:42:28.120 --> 0:42:30.880
<v Speaker 3>with tentacles reaching into shadowy parts of the federal government.

0:42:31.800 --> 0:42:34.760
<v Speaker 3>You can spend a lifetime tracking down those kinds of leads.

0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 3>But not long after I began working on this project,

0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:40.640
<v Speaker 3>I read a document that made the reporting seem a

0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:43.759
<v Speaker 3>little more realistic. It was a letter that I don't

0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:53.600
<v Speaker 3>think was ever meant to go public. The letter came

0:42:53.640 --> 0:42:57.000
<v Speaker 3>to me from my producer, Johnny Kaufman, who first started

0:42:57.000 --> 0:43:00.239
<v Speaker 3>looking into a Mam Jamial's case. I'd met Johnny through

0:43:00.239 --> 0:43:02.640
<v Speaker 3>a friend of a friend, a connection after a random

0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:05.719
<v Speaker 3>dinner party. He was looking for a reporter and host

0:43:05.760 --> 0:43:09.640
<v Speaker 3>to work with on a podcast he was imagining. The

0:43:09.719 --> 0:43:12.280
<v Speaker 3>four page letter was among the reams of court documents

0:43:12.280 --> 0:43:16.319
<v Speaker 3>connected to a Maam Jamial's case. Its author Andrew Young,

0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:20.000
<v Speaker 3>civil rights leader and confidant to Martin Luther King Junior.

0:43:21.200 --> 0:43:24.600
<v Speaker 3>Young was with King when King was assassinated. He would

0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:27.319
<v Speaker 3>become an ambassador to the United Nations and the mayor

0:43:27.360 --> 0:43:31.120
<v Speaker 3>of Atlanta. Young sent his letter to the Fulton County

0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:34.480
<v Speaker 3>District Attorney in Atlanta, the office that prosecuted AmAm Jamil.

0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:38.600
<v Speaker 3>It stated May twenty sixth, twenty twenty. That's almost two

0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:43.480
<v Speaker 3>decades after his conviction. On his own letterhead, Young wrote, quote,

0:43:44.040 --> 0:43:46.319
<v Speaker 3>I believe that the only reason he was convicted was

0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:49.719
<v Speaker 3>because of the egregious misconduct of both law enforcement and

0:43:49.760 --> 0:43:54.000
<v Speaker 3>the individual prosecutor who handled mister Allamine's trial. Young was

0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:57.640
<v Speaker 3>asserting without equivocation that a Maam Jamil was innocent, that

0:43:57.719 --> 0:44:02.839
<v Speaker 3>he was wrongfully convicted. Mister Alamine, Andrew Young wrote, has

0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:07.759
<v Speaker 3>outstanding character. You have the power to now write an

0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:10.520
<v Speaker 3>a storic wrong. This should be done not only for

0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:13.319
<v Speaker 3>the sake of mister Alamine, but indeed for the sake

0:44:13.360 --> 0:44:16.560
<v Speaker 3>of our entire nation and all mankind who yearn for justice.

0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:22.400
<v Speaker 3>Strong words right. I felt weary when I first started

0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:26.160
<v Speaker 3>working on this project. The community of African American Muslims

0:44:26.160 --> 0:44:29.160
<v Speaker 3>in Atlanta is small. Some folks from the West End

0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:32.280
<v Speaker 3>the are family friends. Why should they go poking around

0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:36.040
<v Speaker 3>old pains that the man has already locked up. Gratuitous

0:44:36.040 --> 0:44:39.320
<v Speaker 3>true crime stories are not really my thing, but Young's

0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:43.960
<v Speaker 3>letter gave me a reason to keep digging. There were

0:44:44.000 --> 0:44:47.120
<v Speaker 3>plenty more people to talk to, and I was ready

0:44:47.160 --> 0:44:50.200
<v Speaker 3>to start investigating the details of the shootout to determine

0:44:50.200 --> 0:44:52.960
<v Speaker 3>if a man Jimial was responsible for what happened that night.

0:44:55.200 --> 0:44:58.320
<v Speaker 8>And I remember that that face, that cold faith. I

0:44:58.360 --> 0:45:01.600
<v Speaker 8>couldn't forget that.

0:45:01.600 --> 0:45:03.760
<v Speaker 4>That's on the next episode of Radical.

0:45:32.680 --> 0:45:36.000
<v Speaker 3>Radical is a production of Camside Media, Tenderfoot TV, and

0:45:36.040 --> 0:45:40.080
<v Speaker 3>iHeart Podcasts. Radical was reported and written by Johnny Kaufman

0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:44.120
<v Speaker 3>and me Mossy Secret. Johnny Kaufman is our senior producer.

0:45:44.440 --> 0:45:48.920
<v Speaker 3>Sheba Joseph is our associate producer. Editing by Eric Benson,

0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:53.680
<v Speaker 3>Johnny Kaufman, Emily Martinez and Matt Cher. Fact checking by

0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:57.839
<v Speaker 3>Sophie Hurwitz, Kaylin Lynch and Layla Dos. Original music by

0:45:57.920 --> 0:46:02.000
<v Speaker 3>Kyle Murdoch and by Ray Murray, organized noise, sound design

0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:06.000
<v Speaker 3>and mixing by Kevin Seaman. Recording by Ewan Leed trem Ewen.

0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:07.320
<v Speaker 4>And Sheiba Joseph.

0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:13.280
<v Speaker 3>Campside Media's operations team is Doug Slaywan, Ashley Warren, Elijah Papes,

0:46:13.719 --> 0:46:18.480
<v Speaker 3>Destiny Dingle, and Sabina Mera. The executive producers at Campside

0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:23.160
<v Speaker 3>Media are Josh Dean Vanessa, Gregoriatis, Adam Hoff and Matt Cher.

0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:28.720
<v Speaker 3>For Tenderfoot TV, executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay.

0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:32.880
<v Speaker 3>The executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Matt Frederick and

0:46:32.920 --> 0:46:36.040
<v Speaker 3>Alex Williams, with additional support from Trevor Young,