1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: In his compelling and moving memoir Stories of Surrender, Bono 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 2: writes about his father Brendan, a man who once silenced 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: his local pub in Dalky Dublin, singing the way we 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: were to day, we're together to talk about the way 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: we were and the way we are. Like everyone else, 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: I know Bono through you too, his fight for social 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: justice with his one campaign, and read his philanthropy, his 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: strong values, his vision. I also know him as family. 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: One of the best days we've had in the River 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: Cafe was with Ali, his wife, his children, and friends, 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 2: celebrating the birthday he shares with one of my best friends, 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: his daughter, Jordan. It was a lunch you wanted to 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: go on forever, and in a way it did. Lunch 15 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: became sunset, Sunset turned into starry skies, and when we 16 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 2: left at midnight, the. 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 3: Restaurant was empty. 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 2: Fifteen years ago, staying in the home of Bono's best friend, 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 2: Patty mckillan, I injured my back and for a week 20 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: the only people I met were Irish. The warmth, the laughter, 21 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: the music, the kindness was so overwhelming, even with the pain. 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: I wanted it to last forever too. Today, Bono and 23 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: I are going to talk about family, food, music, memories 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,279 Speaker 2: and more, the way we were, the way we are, 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: and the way we want to be. 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 4: Wow. Well, there we go, and I'm very humble by 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 4: your writing. Most people know you for your cooking for 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 4: the River Cafe, but your community know you for and 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 4: you may be even more famous in your community for 30 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 4: friendship and these love letters that start your podcasts. Few 31 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: of us deserve them, but I'm taking them anyway. 32 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 3: Do you know that song the Way we Were? 33 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 4: I most certainly did I know it. My father used 34 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 4: to sing it. But I prefer the way we are, 35 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 4: and I love the way we are together. 36 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: This is about you, not about me. But remember memories 37 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: like the corner of my mind. 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 4: The other one my father used to sing was for 39 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 4: the good times. Why do you just bring all the 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 4: aunties and uncles of me in tears? Because I think 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 4: it's the line, I'll get along, you'll find another. I'll 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 4: get along, you find another. But this old world keeps 43 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 4: on turning. Let's forget something. Something is it? I think 44 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 4: it might be written by Chris Christofferson. Yeah, Chris Chosofferson 45 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 4: could write them. 46 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: So what was the food like when you were growing up? 47 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 3: What did you have? 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: Do your memories of your kitchen and in your home? 49 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: Do you remember your mother cooking? 50 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 4: I can remember the kitchen very well. Sadly, I don't 51 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 4: many memories of my mother cooking or otherwise. One of 52 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 4: the reasons I wrote Surrender was to somehow sort of 53 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 4: drag some of those memories out of the river of 54 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,839 Speaker 4: silence that engulfed our house. Because after my mother died, 55 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 4: my we just didn't speak speak her name. So it's 56 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 4: hard when you do that to recall these things. And 57 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 4: I you know you've heard of kitchen sink dramas, haven't you. 58 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 4: We certainly had kitchen table dramas, three men arguing a 59 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 4: lot because the woman of the house was gone. And 60 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 4: I remember my relationship with food changed, I mean really 61 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 4: changed my way. 62 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: Tell me how it changed. 63 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 4: I just saw this kind of fuel, just something to 64 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 4: get done. There was no I took no pleasure in it. 65 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 4: I remember, do you know do do you know what 66 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 4: Cadbury's smashes? Would you even know that? We called? Actually? 67 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 4: Can I read you from my mebouk what I wrote myself? 68 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 3: Yeah? 69 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 4: I'd love that, Okay, after Iris died, ten Seedwood Roads 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 4: stop being a home. It's just a house. Most days, 71 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 4: I'd return to it from Mount Temple holding a tin 72 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 4: of meat, a tin of beans, and a packet of 73 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 4: Cadbury's smash. Cadbury's Smash was astronaut food, but eating it 74 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 4: did not make me feel like David Bowie's Starman or 75 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 4: Elton's rocket Man. In fact, eating it was not a 76 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 4: lot like eating at all, but at least it was easy. 77 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 4: You just put boiling water on these little dry pellets 78 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 4: and they shape shifted into mashed potato. I'd add them 79 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 4: to the same pot in which I just cooked the 80 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 4: tinned beans and the tinned meat, and I ate my 81 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 4: dinner out of the pot, sitting in front of the 82 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 4: color TV. Even though this was a particularly black and 83 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: white thing to do, I don't enjoy cooking or ordering food, 84 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 4: which way go back to having to cook my own 85 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 4: meals as a teenager. That then food was just fuel. 86 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 4: We used to buy a cheap fizzy drink called Cadet 87 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 4: Orange because it had enough sugar to keep you going, 88 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 4: but was so foul you wouldn't want anything else down 89 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 4: your throat. For hours. We drank it after I'd spent 90 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 4: my food money on something more important like Alice Cooper's 91 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 4: forty five Hello Hooray for example. Now, then the good 92 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 4: fortune for my father, Bob Norman and I was that 93 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 4: ten Seedwood Road was just two miles from the end 94 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 4: of Runway Too, where my brother Norman worked for the 95 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 4: company Kara in Aerlingus, and he had tucked the company 96 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 4: into allowing him to bring home the surplus airline food 97 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 4: prepared for air Lingus passengers. The meals were sometimes still 98 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: warm when he carried them in in their tin boxes 99 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 4: into our kitchen to be heated in the oven for 100 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 4: twenty three minutes at one hundred and eighty five degrees. 101 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 4: So yes, this was highly exotic fair gammon steak and pineapple, 102 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 4: an Italian dish called lasagne, or one where rice was 103 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 4: no longer a milk pudding but a savory experience with peas. 104 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 4: I told Norman, this is the worst dessert I've ever had. 105 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 4: It's not dessert. And by the way, half the world 106 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 4: eats rice every day. Norman new stuff other people didn't imagine. 107 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 4: Eating rice pudding is your main meal every day? If 108 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 4: my father and I were proud that Norman had removed 109 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 4: the need for us to buy groceries or even have 110 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 4: to cook. After six months, the after taste of tin 111 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 4: was all we could remember. Secretly, at night, I took 112 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 4: to eating corn flakes with cold milk instead of the 113 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 4: airline food. I thought salvation had arrived in the form 114 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 4: of another culinary miracle, this time at Maun Temple. Comprehensive 115 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 4: when the end of the lunch box era was announced 116 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 4: and the age of school dinners dawned, Imagine a fanfare 117 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 4: of trumpets and cheering at assembly. That's how excited we 118 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 4: all were that I was punching the air only briefly. 119 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 4: The school dinners, a headmaster, Mister Medleycott explained, would not 120 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 4: be cooked in the school canteen it wasn't big enough. Instead, 121 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 4: they would be arriving by van in tin boxes from 122 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 4: Dublin Airport. They would be easy, he announced, proudly, at 123 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty five degrees for twenty three minutes 124 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 4: in new ovens the school board had paid for. I'd 125 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 4: never been on an airplane, but already my romance with 126 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 4: flying was over. Airplane food for lunch, airplane food for 127 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 4: tea was more than any apprentice Rockstock could handle. In time, 128 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 4: the apprentice with his band would take to the skies, 129 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 4: and on those early er Lingus flights, I would look 130 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 4: out of the small window and try to see Cedarwood Road. 131 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,679 Speaker 4: As I finally left this small town and small island 132 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 4: and rose above these flat fields, this dull suburbia, my 133 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 4: mind filled with memories of the phone box on the street, 134 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 4: teenagers with broken hearts and broken bottles, sweet and sour neighbors, 135 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 4: and the vibrant branches of the cherry blossom tree between 136 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 4: our house at number ten and the rowans at number five, 137 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 4: at which point the air hostess would arrive and place 138 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 4: one of those little trays right in front of me. 139 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 4: So I had airplane food for lunch, airplane food four 140 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 4: tea and supper. And then I became I joined a band, 141 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 4: where of course we judge entire civilizations by the quality 142 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 4: of room service, but on the plane the same meal. 143 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 4: And indeed I had never heard of pasta, ed never 144 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 4: heard of lasagna, and rice was something that came out 145 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 4: of a tin on a very special occasion and was 146 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 4: called is pudding. Later, you know, with Ali, because she worked, 147 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 4: I did know dough. So she worked, and she I 148 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 4: would try to cook for her, but I just wasn't 149 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 4: able to really and I would try, and she then 150 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 4: made a complicated She became a vegetarian, and I'm like, 151 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 4: oh god, what do I do? Nuts and berries? You know, 152 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 4: I'm like, and I do recall coming home on the 153 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 4: weekend and she was she was cooking, and I remember 154 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 4: getting this beautiful smell of beef. I thought, oh my god, 155 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 4: she's cooking for beef for me and she's vegetarian. This 156 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 4: is how amazing. And I walked in, I said, what 157 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 4: are you cooking? She said, that's not for us. That's 158 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 4: the dog's dinner. There's a few bones actually picked out 159 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 4: from the butchers. It's a dog. And I was like, 160 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 4: hold on, smells so good. And I was like, look, 161 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 4: let me and I ate it. Kids. 162 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 3: I hate the dog's dinner. 163 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 4: I hate the kids. I'm sure Jordan has told you. Yeah, 164 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 4: my dad he hate the dog's dinner once. 165 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 3: But you know what she did tell me. 166 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 2: She told me that you met Alie's so young, that 167 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: Ali's mother, her Nan. 168 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 3: She always refers to her Nan, cooked for you. 169 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 2: And also now when Eli comes back from a tour 170 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: or a gig that she always makes him bread. So 171 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 2: there is a kind of sense of food is love 172 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 2: in that family, of kind of her, of her mother, 173 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: her grandmother and your mother in law. Cooking then and 174 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: cooking now is a source of you know, comfort, and 175 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: taking care of somebody to make bread quite something. 176 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 4: Well. She Joy is her name. She's ninety two tomorrow, 177 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 4: and she can touch your toes. There's no pain in 178 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 4: her body. She is sharp and funny, as brilliant as 179 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 4: she was when she took me in age sixteen. Yeah, seventeen, 180 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 4: I started to turn up. I mean, Ali called me 181 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 4: the stray dog because I would always turn up at 182 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 4: my mate's house at meal times. Yeah, I heard that, 183 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 4: and I would turn up and enjoy it. Would cook 184 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 4: for me, and I felt something from the food. It's 185 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 4: like that water for chocolate book, you know. I really 186 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: felt something from her cooking. And yeah, I felt it 187 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 4: from your cooking, and not just in the rest open 188 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 4: in your place. You people speak. It's a language, and 189 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 4: it is for me the essence of being spoiled. And 190 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 4: you are exactly right. I don't stop much to think 191 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 4: about any accomplishments because I'm always thinking about what we 192 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 4: haven't accomplished. But if I do stop, it is with 193 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 4: food and wine. And I tried to give thanks, I 194 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 4: tried to say a grace. I do thank God and 195 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 4: induced and it dawns on me. Wow. I used to 196 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 4: eat corn flakes for my main meal to dodge the 197 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 4: airline food. And now I get to eat in this 198 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 4: restaurant or now I have you know? Somebody like Noney 199 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 4: Favero cooked for me. Who's you know? I followed her around, 200 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 4: We followed her around, and from her I learned to 201 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 4: love fish. I never ate fish, I thought, you know, 202 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 4: in Ireland we have a strange relationship with fish. We're 203 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 4: surrounded by it, We're an island. But fish on Fridays 204 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 4: was a sort of penance. So I think it ruined 205 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 4: a fish for a lot of people I loved. And 206 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 4: this might upset you. I loved well. I love to 207 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 4: smoke cod and and and chips that you got in 208 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 4: the in the chipper. Why would you know? 209 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 3: Why would that bother me? 210 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: If it's just fresh fish and it's smoked, and it 211 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 2: tastes it's. 212 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 4: Oh so so beautiful. There's in fact, there's some Italian 213 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 4: families they came to Ireland. They're all from the same 214 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 4: place in Italy, I think, and so our version of 215 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 4: fast food in Ireland when I was growing up wasn't 216 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 4: it was kind of wonderful. I haven't mentioned my involvement 217 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 4: in mister Pussy's Cafe Deluxe, but my brother Norman and 218 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 4: my great mate from Cedarwood Road, Gavin Friday, opened up 219 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 4: a sort of burlesque cafe in Dublin called called Mister 220 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 4: Pussy's Cafe Delox and mister Pussy was a drag act. 221 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 4: Alan m Almsby was his name is wonderful And in 222 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 4: mister Pussy's Cafe Deluxe, and that really was its name, 223 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 4: they had fish and chips and caveat and because it 224 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 4: was an after hours club, we used to have red 225 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 4: and white tea on the menu. It was red and 226 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 4: white Why served in teapots because we didn't have that license. 227 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: I probablyish't I did, No, I shouldn't say that they 228 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 2: might come and find you. You chose of all my 229 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 2: recipes of thirty eight years of recipes, you chose a 230 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 2: recipe which I was totally unsurprised about, which was a potato, 231 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 2: tomato and green bean salad. And you know when your 232 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: friend Patti mckillan comes to the River Cafe and we 233 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: know he's coming. We always have extra potatoes. And I 234 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: was going to ask you do you always have to 235 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: have potatoes as well? What is it with the Irish 236 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: and potatoes. 237 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 4: Let me just say this to you, Rudy, I got 238 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 4: this recipe was selected suggested for me. Potato green bean tomaso. No, 239 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 4: no way, No. 240 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 3: I think it is for Patty mckillan. 241 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: He talks about every day he came home from school 242 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 2: and his grandmother made him a baked potato. And I 243 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 2: know about potatoes in Ireland. Would you like to tell 244 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: me seriously about about the famine? 245 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 4: No, I do always want to talk about the fab 246 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 4: The potatoes is doing great now, so the Irish. I 247 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 4: just want you. I want to use the podcast. I 248 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 4: want to use the podcast to get a message to 249 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 4: all the Irish listeners you have all over the world, 250 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 4: just to let them know that the potatoes are fine 251 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 4: now they can come home. All right, potatoes, potatoes are fine. 252 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 2: But I just want to say to all the Irish 253 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 2: you're listening here that I rarely, I personally rarely have 254 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 2: a meal without potatoes because I love potatoes. Even I 255 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: can't say I love more than pasta, but I do 256 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: love potatoes. 257 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 4: But yes, potatoes would be the pasta of Ireland. Let's 258 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 4: call it that the bassed dish. But single crop dependency 259 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 4: turns out to be not a good idea if you're 260 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 4: being managed by the British. So there, so there you go. 261 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as 262 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 2: chefs are able to talk to our guests in the restaurant, 263 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: and now we're bringing that same ethos to our podcast, 264 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: a question and answer episode with me and our two 265 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: executive chefs. Send a voice note with your question to 266 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: Questions at Rivercafe dot co dot uk and you might 267 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: just be our next great guest on Ruthie's Table four. 268 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: When you left home, when you left your house, when 269 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: you left this environment of school? And did you have 270 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: any experience of eating other kind of food when you travel? 271 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, ah yeah, See we were given the great 272 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 4: gift of a manager who loved food and wine as 273 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 4: much as he loved music. And I remember as kids, 274 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 4: you know, because we're twenty, we're driving up and down 275 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 4: the motorway in the UK, and do you know what 276 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 4: a per diem ise? Yes, a pre deem. It sounds 277 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 4: like a sort of novene or something, and it is 278 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 4: a kind of one. Record companies used to give you 279 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 4: per deems so you could stay in a hotel if 280 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 4: you were playing you know, Manchester or Newcastle or Lieds 281 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 4: or whatever. But we wouldn't stay in the hotel. We'd 282 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 4: drive back after the show and save up our per 283 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 4: deems so that Paul could take us out for one 284 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 4: really good meal on the weekends. Now it might be 285 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 4: in poons of soho could be Chinese. Yeah, but over 286 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 4: the years, yeah, we would go to some great places 287 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 4: and we weren't really appreciative. Early on, we'd sort of 288 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 4: slag him off, but you know, he'd be talking about 289 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 4: this fella in France. We'd think of some composer, sort 290 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 4: of indie guy we hadn't heard of, called Paul but Goose, 291 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 4: and then discover it was a chef and that we'd 292 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 4: booked three dates in Leon because our manager wanted to 293 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 4: eat in Paul Becuz's restaurant. So that was our experience, 294 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 4: is we learned through this magnificent man about food and why. 295 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: When I talked to Paul McCartney about food and wine 296 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 2: and he said that he didn't know what it was. 297 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 2: When he and John Lennon went to Paris, they had 298 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 2: a bit of money from John's ant. I think she 299 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 2: gave them a tiny bit of money. So they ate 300 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 2: out and they had wine, and he thought wine was 301 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 2: just the most disgusting drink because they had the cheapest, cheapest, 302 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: cheapest wine that they could possibly afford. And it was 303 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 2: only when Brian Epstein took them to Latois, which was 304 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: this great restaurant, and took them and gave them like 305 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: your manager, gave them great food and wonderful wine that 306 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 2: they thought, Wow, this is what food and wine could 307 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: be like. Being able to access food was some about 308 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 2: a measure of the work that they had done that 309 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: allowed them to do that. 310 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 4: I think that's right. And early on we would you know, 311 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 4: this was not very punk rock or post punk activity. 312 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 4: You're supposed to be depressed, and Paul wasn't. He was 313 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 4: anything great that happened for our band. If we'd have 314 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 4: a hit record somewhere, or you know, he would go 315 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 4: to find a great restaurant. And I realized that I 316 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 4: then I supposed to turn those experiences into They became 317 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 4: magical ones for me because I so loved to listen 318 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 4: to him talk. Occasionally I'd go back into my sort 319 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 4: of more matcho sort of North Dublin side, or me 320 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 4: and Larry would look at them talking. Paul McGinnis was 321 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 4: very influenced by the manager of horse Lips, who his 322 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 4: name is Michael Deane, and he went to Oxford and 323 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 4: his brother became I think the High Sheriff of where 324 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 4: we call it, a Belfast Catholic, first Catholic to take 325 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 4: that position. And I do remember he and Paul talking 326 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 4: about this particular wine and how big it was, and 327 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 4: I was with the band, and I just decided I'd 328 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 4: speak up for the band. I said, I'm twenty two 329 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 4: or whatever, twenty three and I said, oh, maybe maybe Michael, 330 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 4: you might explain exactly like what is a You might 331 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 4: tell the band what's a big wine wine? And Michael 332 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 4: Dean he just went on and it will blow your 333 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 4: head off. It was kind of comedic way to put 334 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 4: us in our place. But in truth we were students 335 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 4: at the feet of these great professors. And indeed it's 336 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 4: through Paul that I discovered the River Cafe. 337 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 2: When you're performing, do you eat before you go on 338 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 2: stage or do you eat after or do you think 339 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: about I mean, I remember if Posh Spite said that 340 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 2: she came to her diet because she had to get 341 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 2: up on stage and perform, and she found the kind 342 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 2: of food that could make her sing and dance for 343 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 2: three hours. That was a kind of almost like an athlete. 344 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: What she would eat before going on stage. Do you 345 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: do that when you have a concert? Do you think 346 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: about what you're going to eat before or after? 347 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 4: Well it's changed. I mean I used to ignore all 348 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 4: those rules and in our thirties, and you can see 349 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 4: some of the results of it, and some of our 350 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 4: live shows, which would be very joyous occasions. But if 351 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 4: you saw a big red Irish face, that's because the 352 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 4: night before we might have gone out. I've only twice 353 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 4: had alcohol before I went on stage. Once there's a wedding. 354 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 4: Another one my father put me to bed the night 355 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 4: before and I had a mad hangover in Paris. 356 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 3: What year was that? What year was that? How old 357 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 3: were you? 358 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 4: That was in the late nineties, and it was a 359 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 4: wonderful memory of my father, Bob. But after that, you 360 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 4: can't sing if you drink, at least you can't sing. 361 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 4: I can't sing. Maybe I should just say that. And tenors, 362 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 4: which I was pretending to be at the time. My 363 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 4: father used to say, you're a baritone who thinks he's 364 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 4: a tenor, which is a very accurate description of me 365 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 4: on all fronts. But actually, if you sing those big notes, 366 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 4: which you two loves the opera and of those big notes, 367 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 4: you sort of have to be careful what you eat 368 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 4: and what you drink. And so I would eat very 369 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 4: simply before a concert. 370 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: Well, you also have had access to power, to people 371 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 2: who really can. 372 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 3: Make big decisions. 373 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 2: And did you have a meal with George Bush in 374 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: the White House or did you have you know, did 375 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 2: you ever have lunch with the Pope? Or do you 376 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 2: have when you had access to that kind of world 377 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 2: having a meal perhaps with somebody who was not accessible 378 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: to many of us. 379 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 3: Was that over food? 380 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 4: Well, the thing that started with Live Aid forty years 381 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 4: ago was a sort of It was charity, but it 382 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 4: started to change in its direction to travel toward justice. 383 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 4: And so the Drop the Debt campaign was really about 384 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 4: economic slavery. We were responding to Desmond, to to to 385 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 4: Mandela and all going to work for to try and 386 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 4: make a more horizontal relationship with the continents of Africa 387 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 4: rather than vertical one, which is the donor and recipient 388 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 4: as it's known in the aid industry. So as part 389 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 4: of that, we had to get to know politics, and 390 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 4: I used to spend I spent a lot of time 391 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 4: in capitals, but particularly in Washington, d C. Getting to 392 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 4: know not just you know the principles as they were called, 393 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 4: these senators, congressmen, or cabinet members, secretaries of state, presidents, whatever, 394 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 4: but actually they're chiefs of staff. So I used to 395 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 4: go drinking with them, chiefs of staff. I'd say, let 396 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 4: me spend time with the chiefs of staff, because they're 397 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 4: really the ones that on Monday morning they're going to 398 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 4: be talking to their principle. And let's see if we 399 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 4: can get people together. What we used to do in 400 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 4: DC was Bobby Shreiver's idea was to get people into 401 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 4: a restaurant. It was an Italian restaurant, and we used 402 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 4: to get people from across the aisle. His mother, Euni 403 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 4: Shrevir set up the Special Olympics, and his father said 404 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 4: of the Peace Corps, Kennedy, but so you'd have some 405 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 4: of those kind of high falutin people, but you just 406 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 4: have also you know, really dogged ideologues from both parties 407 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 4: in America, Democrats and Republics fighting it out at the table. 408 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 4: But breaking bread and drinking wine. You can't do that anymore. 409 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 4: There's I think a twenty dollars limit a pizzas about 410 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 4: what you can get now. But I remember those arguments. 411 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 4: I remember who is a John Kasik who ran for 412 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 4: president on the Republican side. I remember a stand up 413 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 4: argument with him and Larry Summers, who is the then 414 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 4: Treasury secretary, and I remember just looking going, wow, this 415 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 4: peace making stuff isn't going well for me. But I 416 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 4: learned so much, and I learned about the process, I 417 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 4: suppose the sausage making of it all. And I ended 418 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 4: up with more respect for these for these people who 419 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 4: were away fing their families a lot, and in other 420 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 4: areas of endeavor commerce they'd probably be very successful. And 421 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 4: even though I didn't agree with a lot of their politics, 422 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 4: I learned by listening, and I'm trying to listen more, 423 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 4: especially in the cracked politics that we have now. You 424 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 4: were talking about meals I had with these kinds of 425 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 4: heads of state. I do remember having to eat humble 426 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 4: pie with George Bush because i'd slagged. 427 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 2: That for dessert was that like apple pie or raspberry 428 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 2: pie pie. 429 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 4: It's a dish Irish people don't like to eat. But 430 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 4: I had, I had, I'd gone in an I'd had 431 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 4: a meeting with them. I was just very sort of 432 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 4: cross because he had said that we were going to 433 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 4: get these aid drugs to people on bicycles and motorcycles, 434 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 4: whatever it takes, to the furthest reaches, whatever. And I said, 435 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 4: if you can get Guinness to the rural poor, if 436 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 4: you can get Coca Cola, we can get these life 437 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 4: saving drugs. And I said, mister President, paint them red, 438 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 4: white and blue if you want. These will be the 439 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 4: best advertisements for America ever. So eventually, after extraordinary campaign 440 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 4: with a lot of people involved from different sides of 441 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 4: the fens, he'd agreed announced it, and then I'd gone 442 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 4: in and said it's not happening. It's not happening, And 443 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 4: eventually it did. It's twenty six million people actually since then, 444 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 4: because back Obama followed through and I went in and 445 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 4: I've been banging. I remember I was banging on the 446 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 4: table of the President of the United States, and he got, hey, hey, 447 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 4: I am the president. That's Okay, I'll just remind you 448 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 4: of that inspect He was funny too, George Bush. He 449 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 4: had a great, great sense of humor. Yeah, so I 450 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 4: remember that anyway. I remember he said, sit down, have 451 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 4: some lunch, let's talk about do you remember what you ate? Chicken? 452 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 3: Chicken? And then did you meet with Barack Obama? 453 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, everybody, few times, a few times. But again 454 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 4: I would just say and and Obama was an extraordinary 455 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 4: man for so many reasons. But one of the more 456 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 4: extraordinary reasons is that even though George Bush had started 457 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 4: this pep FAR, which is the President's Emergency Plan for 458 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 4: A's Relief, Barack Obama carried it on, in fact, put 459 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 4: more of American taxpayers money into it, even in President 460 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 4: Bush had and never asked for recognition. And it was 461 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 4: kind of amazing. But I do remember once maybe this 462 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 4: is okay to tell the story because everyone knows now, 463 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 4: I remember sitting with Alicia Keys, myself and Barack Obama 464 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 4: having lunch, and I brought him a guitar and I 465 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 4: ended up I played I don't know, something like something 466 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 4: simple on the guitar, and he Breack Obama began to sing, 467 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 4: Yeah he loves but he'd never sung in public at 468 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 4: that point, and I was slagging them off, saying, oh, 469 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 4: so it's not enough to be the president of the 470 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 4: United States. You know you're coming after our jobs. You're 471 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 4: coming after our jobs. And then a week later he 472 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 4: sang and then I don't know if you recall after 473 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 4: the school shooting when he sang amazing. 474 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 3: Grace, sang amazing grace. 475 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 4: Can you imagine the leader of the free world singing 476 00:29:59,160 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 4: amazing grace? 477 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: Can you sing amazing grace? 478 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 4: It's a song that means to me. It's a song 479 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 4: about a slaver and John John Newton whose ship sank 480 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 4: in them in Donny Gaul in Northern Ireland. So people 481 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 4: are don't gonna feel close to this song, but I 482 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 4: will sing it if you like. Uh may ze grace 483 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 4: hal sweet oo. Let's say ooh rach. 484 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 2: Like me. 485 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, w wow loads boo. 486 00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 4: Now I am found was blood? No I see. 487 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 3: One more time. I can't oh more. It's so beautiful. 488 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 2: But a song, and isn't I've always known that it 489 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 2: was a song of slavery. 490 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 4: But grace is the idea of that. Grace is a sound. 491 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 4: I just it's it's just a while here for musician grace. 492 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 4: You know, I'm I've got faith, but I'm not very 493 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 4: I'm not very good at living up to the creed 494 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 4: that I wish I could follow better. And but grace 495 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 4: is the grace is the thing that gets me through it. 496 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:54,239 Speaker 2: I remember when Richard, my husband was downstairs, and I 497 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 2: came down and you and Patty again, we're there, weren't 498 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: you You were sitting there. Oh yeah, something I'll never 499 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 2: forget with him. 500 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 4: Well, I'll never forget your Your husband a towering man 501 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 4: as well as I mean a towering figure as well 502 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 4: as one who built those towers. 503 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: And but he loved you, you know he he Richard. 504 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 2: You say that he loved a lot, he cared and 505 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 2: how to deal these high buildings, but his feet were 506 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: definitely on the ground. 507 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: You know. 508 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,479 Speaker 4: It's funny, you know, I don't know who said grief 509 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 4: is the price we pay for love for love, But 510 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 4: I've seen you go through this and even recently, as 511 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 4: you know, and I'm with your son and your husband 512 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 4: and your your grace is to your friends is unfathomable. 513 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 4: And you fill that hole with all of us who 514 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 4: know you. 515 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 2: No, I'd say that hole is filled by it's a reverse. 516 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: The hole is filled by my friends and my family, 517 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 2: and so I'm. 518 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 3: A lucky, lucky woman. 519 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 2: And I think that you know, we we think that 520 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 2: all this is, this conversation has been about, well, it's 521 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 2: stories of surrender. We wanted to talk about the documentary, 522 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 2: the song you've written, you've spoken, you've traveled, but you 523 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 2: have also done a film which is just out now, 524 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 2: and I think if we have people listening, we want 525 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: them to watch this film. 526 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 3: So would you like to talk about that for a minute, 527 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 3: about the film? 528 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 4: You know? Not really, I I'd rather sing that second 529 00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 4: verse for for your beautiful Man, and so if I 530 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 4: can remember the lyric here, let me just try twalls 531 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 4: grace that told my heart to fear. 532 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 5: And grace math fieus really our precious bad grace uhpier 533 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 5: the hour our first believe. 534 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 2: And when you went to Ethiopia, when you went to 535 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 2: see extreme poverty and hunger, they had nothing, no food, 536 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 2: And so I think we could have him in at 537 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 2: odd food poverty or as long as you want. 538 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, after Live Aids, myself and Ali went and not 539 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 4: with a camera crew, an he just volunteered and we're 540 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 4: to the food station and I was put in charge 541 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 4: of this, well not in charge. I was allowed to 542 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 4: work in this orphanage where in the Wallow province and 543 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 4: a place called Ajibar, And we were just helping out 544 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 4: because we were caught up in what happened at Live Aid. 545 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 4: And Bob Gallof had had this effect on this other 546 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 4: little irishman and him a giant, and I just you know, 547 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 4: to see, malnutrition is a hard thing to look at. 548 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 4: And Ethiopians are very proud royal people. They were never colonized, 549 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 4: so just you know the dignity of these people, and 550 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 4: it of course changed the course of our life, value 551 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 4: myself and and all of that. But having seen what 552 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 4: manuitution looks like to then realize that this is not 553 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 4: something strong with this labor government who have lowered aid, 554 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 4: and it's upset a lot of people, but at least 555 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 4: they gave warning that they were coming down. In the 556 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 4: United States, USAID was was just I mean demolished, vandalized 557 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 4: by a person who who looked at sort of life losses. 558 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 4: It would appear like job losses, and and there was 559 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 4: food locked up and while people starved to death, was 560 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 4: food locked up because people hadn't got the keys. I mean, 561 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 4: I'll put it as simply as that. And there was medicines, 562 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 4: critical medicines, aids, medications that never got to people. Nick 563 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 4: Christof's writing in the New York Times is unbelievable on this. 564 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 4: But there will be much more about this because the 565 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 4: constituencies that elected Donald Trump a lot of them religious folks, 566 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 4: Catholics and evangelicals, and they don't like killing kids. The 567 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 4: almost glee that these organizations these and the sacking of 568 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 4: people who are the best of us, really these people 569 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 4: civil servants. So many of the people in our political 570 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 4: process that we don't know their names or their faces 571 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 4: are actually doing the real work. 572 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 2: There's a really moving piece which actually almost moved me 573 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 2: to tears in the New York Times about the fact 574 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 2: that Trump, we don't even want to mention his name, 575 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 2: our president, my president, is tearing down a lot of 576 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 2: the what he calls the bureaucratic buildings that were built 577 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 2: in the sixties, and in fact, a lot of that 578 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 2: architecture and those big buildings were designed by both Lyndon 579 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 2: Johnson and Kennedy to show the American public that there 580 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 2: were these huge buildings, huge edifices were for people who 581 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 2: were making their world, their society better by going to 582 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 2: you know, that there was a government that was actually 583 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 2: taking care of them, and they wanted to advertise that. 584 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 2: They wanted to show people that Washington was there to 585 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 2: give education, housing, health, and that they did that on purpose. 586 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 2: And now they see that as an example of you know, bureaucracy, 587 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 2: which has got to go, firing forty thousand people, as 588 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 2: you say, who go to work every day for not 589 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 2: very much money to try and make life better. 590 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 4: You know, well the people who bring peace to these conflicts, 591 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 4: and even a lot of them fifth of over. But 592 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 4: having observed the Irish peast process, all I remember and 593 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 4: this is just the amount of sort of time and 594 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 4: energy you know, you had. You had these huge giants, 595 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 4: and Tony Blair deserves credit, and Bill Clinton and and 596 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 4: Bertie Hern and all the heads of whoever was working 597 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 4: on this. But it's just the civil servants I who 598 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 4: were eating the bad sandwiches and staying up under the 599 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 4: fluorescent light, you know, into the small hours of the 600 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 4: morning trying to make sense of it. All people doing 601 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 4: trade deals. Now they're working hard on behalf of their countries. 602 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 4: It's not very rock and roll, but I've developed I've 603 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 4: felt this enormous respect for civil servants and just people 604 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 4: that we just don't know are keeping the lights on. 605 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 4: You know. 606 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 2: My last, very last question to you. If food is 607 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 2: you know, alleviating hunger. This food is something we give 608 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 2: to people who are hungry. If food is something we 609 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 2: make for our daughter on her birthday and share around 610 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 2: the table. If food has brought you and I together, 611 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 2: and Ali and Jordan and your kids over meals in 612 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 2: the River Cafe that started in sunshine and end in 613 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 2: the moonlight. It was also comfort if you needed food 614 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 2: for comfort, is there a food that you would reach for? 615 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 3: Hmmm? Maybe this code. 616 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 4: I'm a fish and chips man. That's who I am. 617 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 4: Shoot me. Thank you. I love you, so delighted to 618 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 4: be with you. 619 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table for 620 00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: in partnership with Montclair. You