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Speaker 1: What's Truth and the Squad. I'm Robert Evans. This is

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Speaker 1: part two of our Amia episode and by popular acclaim

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Speaker 1: Sophie Jack. And they're going to start this by digging

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Speaker 1: into the fact that when he decided am we needed

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Speaker 1: it's an internal police force to make sure people weren't

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Speaker 1: making illegal, fraudulent claims about the products, he what did

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Speaker 1: you call it? The truth Squad? And he was profiting

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Speaker 1: off of That made me think of all the you know,

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Speaker 1: the fact that everything that uh, modern mega companies are

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Speaker 1: profiting from are are the things that like get the

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Speaker 1: most most attention and scrutiny from the media, like Facebook

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Speaker 1: and lies and you know, misinformation, And so they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna invest in like squad, like these groups that

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Speaker 1: are this like entire branch of our company that's going

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Speaker 1: to be the Truth Squad or the Facebook equivalent of that,

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Speaker 1: and then like they just have their knees cut out

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Speaker 1: from under them, like the second that nobody's looking, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I should just named it the narc squad. And then squad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just so COULTI the name. It's just like it's

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Speaker 1: like triggering. I'm like, yeah, thank you, Jack, Jack, your

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Speaker 1: kids used the TikTok? Are they talking? Are not old enough?

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Speaker 1: Because I'm just across a letter. Kevin Barron posted it.

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Speaker 1: Who's some some guy on Twitter? I don't know that

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Speaker 1: he got an email from his public school system that

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Speaker 1: I just want to talk about now. Uh, And it's

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Speaker 1: about like kids have. There's like a series of escalatingly

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Speaker 1: criminal TikTok challenges that kids are putting on each other

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Speaker 1: in public schools apparently, or at least in schools. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: September's vandalized school bathrooms that I can confirm from friends

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Speaker 1: who are teachers that all their school bathrooms have been

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Speaker 1: like massively vandalized at a problematic scale, like several of

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Speaker 1: them are non functional. October is apparently smack a staff member. Um,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea how accurate the rest of these are.

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Speaker 1: But a bunch of kids did vandalize their school bathrooms

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Speaker 1: for TikTok in September. So there Rember, there was a

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Speaker 1: there was a thing where they were supposed to be

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Speaker 1: like stealing the biggest item in the room from schools,

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Speaker 1: like people, and they would like take like they would

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Speaker 1: take like an entire like sink set up from a

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Speaker 1: bathroom from a school and take it home talk about it,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, ums, crime, Yeah, that's a crime. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a bunch of these are crimes. Januaries apparently, jab abreast

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Speaker 1: December's deck the halls and show your balls. Um, Februaries

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Speaker 1: mess up school signs. Um. Yeah, I don't know. It

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Speaker 1: seems like signs and grab a very different like I

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Speaker 1: don't know whose children, I don't know who's decided these

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Speaker 1: are like the things that are going to be done

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Speaker 1: that I did walk in on my five year old

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Speaker 1: and three year old planning this entire thing out so

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Speaker 1: that we found the origin point. Yeah, they are the bread,

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Speaker 1: the nerve center of this entire plot. Um. It feels

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Speaker 1: suspiciously similar to like, uh, you know, you combine anything

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Speaker 1: that's like a new fangled thing that parents don't understand

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Speaker 1: and you know, maybe a seed of truth of like

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Speaker 1: some misbehavior, and like it just seems like catnip for

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Speaker 1: the local news and parents, um yeah and educators. But

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Speaker 1: you're you're saying that they're actually destroying bathrooms, which I

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Speaker 1: can confirm that some kids for TikTok challenges have destroyed

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Speaker 1: bathrooms in a couple of different schools at least where

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Speaker 1: I am. So there's an extent to which something that

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Speaker 1: I think, this may just be that like that happened,

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Speaker 1: there was a TikTok scam or a TikTok not scam,

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Speaker 1: but there was like a TikTok thing that like vandaliser

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Speaker 1: school bathroom for the likes and a bunch of kids

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Speaker 1: did it, and then school instructors like flip the funk

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Speaker 1: out and somebody convinced them that there was a whole

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Speaker 1: list of things for the next year. Because I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine I can't imagine that a bunch of kids like

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Speaker 1: planned the next eleven months of TikTok, Like who would

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Speaker 1: even do that? Right? Too much planning? Too much? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: jab a breast day, a breast today, created by a

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Speaker 1: like guidance counselor like I will believe in deck the hall,

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Speaker 1: show your balls that that I will believe it that

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Speaker 1: sprung from the mind of a eight year old. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know, We'll see it could just be, uh,

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Speaker 1: it could be a real interesting in the next couple

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Speaker 1: of months on the talks. So yeah, I have your

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Speaker 1: teachers alone, I do. I don't mind stealing the biggest

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Speaker 1: thing in the room and then like returning that is fun.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm trying to think of the biggest thing, as

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Speaker 1: always most of I guess it would either be the

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Speaker 1: teacher's desk or like the whiteboard. Yeah, if you could

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Speaker 1: steal your teacher's desk, like, props to you, that's impressive.

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Speaker 1: That is Um, but but it does I mean, destroying

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Speaker 1: school bathrooms is not cool, especially during a pandemic. Kind

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Speaker 1: of a bad idea. That sucks a teacher. That's like

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Speaker 1: one less hand washing station that people get. Anything that

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Speaker 1: violates someone's personal space or like bodily autonomy, like at

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Speaker 1: the funk out of here. Also, you probably shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: showing your balls to anyone. But yeah, that's that's problematic

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Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. Um, if it was I

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Speaker 1: don't know, deck the hall steal the school resource officers,

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Speaker 1: car should probably move on to the episode. Um, okay,

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Speaker 1: so Jack Robert Toberfest, october Fest. That's the only holiday

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Speaker 1: I celebrate Jack. Yeah, it's all October for me. I'm

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Speaker 1: just just I don't know what I'm doing. I never

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Speaker 1: really stopped to figure out how to celebrate Jacktoberfest. I

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Speaker 1: just told in my heart just Apple strudles. It's just

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Speaker 1: strut piles of strudal So Jack. After Gerald Ford got

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter nineteen seventy six, you know, he was the

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Speaker 1: big in that van Andel and rich Divos had that

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Speaker 1: am ways, like political in was when he gets you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not not president anymore. Um. They didn't give up

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Speaker 1: on influencing the government. They just got better at it.

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Speaker 1: They got into increasingly overt political fundraising. So they moved

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Speaker 1: from you know, they had started kind of supporting free

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Speaker 1: enterprise think tanks and putting up propaganda booklets to try

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Speaker 1: to you know, change hearts and minds. Um. And they

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Speaker 1: moved on to just making direct ten thousand dollar donations

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Speaker 1: per year to the Republican National Committee. This earned them

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Speaker 1: the rank of Eagle. If you're curious what that gets you, um,

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Speaker 1: Richard Divos as usual. Yeah, yeah, it kind of is. Um. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know the Republicans love them eagles. Yeah, big, big,

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Speaker 1: big on eagles. So ten thousand a year doesn't sound

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Speaker 1: like that much. Well this is yeah, that's like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, a hundred grand. It's a lot of money

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Speaker 1: more than it is now. Um. And they're also giving

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Speaker 1: more money, right, this is what they're giving to the party.

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Speaker 1: But this is like emblematic of the money they're shot

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Speaker 1: gutting to different conservative causes. Richard DeVos started putting a

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Speaker 1: lot of money into pushing for more right to work

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Speaker 1: laws UM, which despite their name, are actually make it

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Speaker 1: easier for corporations to fire people without cause. Um they're

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Speaker 1: kind of skirt through like different union uh restrictions and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: UM divoce pumped a fortune into the Council on a

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Speaker 1: Union Free Environment, which was an organization dedicated to stopping

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Speaker 1: making it harder for people to unionize UM. It had

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Speaker 1: been founded in nineteen seventy seven, the year he started

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Speaker 1: giving it money, and he was almost immediately made a director.

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Speaker 1: We saw this earlier with one of the other groups

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Speaker 1: that like, this group will start, he'll give them a

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Speaker 1: bunch of money and then he'll be in charge of them. UM.

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Speaker 1: So he's technically donating money. I'm sure there's a tax

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Speaker 1: thing there right where like he pays less taxes because

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Speaker 1: he's giving these money. But also these are groups that

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Speaker 1: he effectively runs and solicits donations from other people, and

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Speaker 1: they're just all of these different organizations are effectively like

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Speaker 1: instruments of Richard Divoce's political whims um which he hates

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Speaker 1: unions um, which because what do you even care about unions?

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Speaker 1: Richard Divas and weight Like none of them are your employees.

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Speaker 1: How could you? Like I've been thinking about that, Like

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Speaker 1: because they go from this uh you know, uh triangularly

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Speaker 1: shaped financial model uh thing company to like going really

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Speaker 1: hard in the direction of like being almost like legendarily

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Speaker 1: uh you know, big influencers in the in the realm

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Speaker 1: of like conservative politics, in like all these different ways.

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Speaker 1: And I I feel like there's like, when you look

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Speaker 1: at the central lie that their family is trying to perpetuate,

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Speaker 1: it's that they like deserve more than their fair share

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Speaker 1: rather than less, because they've like who they've morally, they're

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Speaker 1: like fucked so many people over, Like the amount of

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Speaker 1: damage caused by this company where everyone who works for

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Speaker 1: them loses all their money is like absolutely incalculable, and

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Speaker 1: so they have to convince themselves that not only that

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Speaker 1: that's not bad, but that they are worth like billions

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Speaker 1: times as much as other people. And I think one

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Speaker 1: of the ways they do that is by believing that

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Speaker 1: everyone is lazier than them, and so it's unions would

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Speaker 1: make it easy for people to be lazy and laziness

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Speaker 1: at scale. Yeah, yeah, And it's just trying to like

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Speaker 1: perpetuate this lie across generations, like to make it so

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Speaker 1: that reality like bends to like kind of your warped

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Speaker 1: like hope. And this is how he beens reality too,

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Speaker 1: because like he believes that his opinion, his beliefs are

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Speaker 1: worth more than other people's, and he makes that real

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Speaker 1: because he has all of these different political action organizations

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Speaker 1: that are lobbying and that are getting donations that he

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Speaker 1: winds up running either he was the one who orchestrated

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Speaker 1: them being started, or because he gives so much he

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Speaker 1: just winds up in charge. But these are all instruments

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Speaker 1: of his will that effectively, like he was one of

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Speaker 1: the earlier, earliest rich people in the country to really

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Speaker 1: figure out how to make how how to do like

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Speaker 1: what the Koch brothers do. Right where you have this

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Speaker 1: sprawling network of think tanks and lobbying groups and influence

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Speaker 1: operations that all basically exist to make people, to make

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Speaker 1: it to the people what you think about the world matters,

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Speaker 1: and so to keep Charlie Kerk employed. Yeah, and to

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Speaker 1: keep Charling the Kirk employed. Now. One of the first

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Speaker 1: politicians and we went whole hog on electing was Sue Myrick,

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Speaker 1: who eventually became a congresswoman. She'd initially joined a Way

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Speaker 1: in nineteen nine two, and by that point she'd been

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Speaker 1: elected once to the Charlotte, North Carolina City Council. She

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Speaker 1: lost a bid for mayor in nineteen five, but then

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Speaker 1: one in nineteen eighties seven. So she had a history

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Speaker 1: of trying to get elected, losing and then getting elected

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Speaker 1: the next election. So she she had a proven ability

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Speaker 1: to like figure out how to make things work for

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Speaker 1: her in in politics. Now, the year she joined am Wish,

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Speaker 1: she ran for Senate and her campaign did not get

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Speaker 1: off to a good start because she had a lot

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Speaker 1: less money than her rival. But once she joined Amway

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Speaker 1: as a distributor, the company decided to allow her to

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Speaker 1: start selling her own motivational tapes at company rallies to

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Speaker 1: raise money for her campaign, even though she was very

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Speaker 1: new um am We also donated more than sixteen thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars to her campaign. Now, she lost this first Senate election,

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Speaker 1: but am We continued to invest in her, largely because

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Speaker 1: she was an effective speaker. They put her on their

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Speaker 1: national circuit, and she visited hundreds of Amway rallies for

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Speaker 1: distributors around the world and was able to sell five

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Speaker 1: and ten dollar audio tapes of her motivational speeches that

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Speaker 1: went right into her war chest. We've talked about these

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Speaker 1: tapes a few times, and I should probably provide you

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Speaker 1: with an example of how they sounded. I have, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I don't have any absume my Rick Samway recordings,

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Speaker 1: but I did find a video made by her Amway mentor,

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Speaker 1: Dexter Yeager, who was actually he gave her thirteen thousand

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Speaker 1: of that sixteen thousand dollars that her campaign got from Amway.

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Speaker 1: So this is the guy who was like her mentor,

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Speaker 1: Dexter Yeager. Um, this is a segment from one of

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Speaker 1: his motivational speeches from I don't know, like thirty something

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Speaker 1: years ago, Sylvie. I know a guy that was dating

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Speaker 1: a girl back when he was about sixteen years old.

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Speaker 1: And when he dated girls, you always liked to take

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Speaker 1: them out first class in accordance with his income. And

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Speaker 1: he had a girl he was dating, but she turned

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Speaker 1: to him and said, my folks would never allow me

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Speaker 1: to marry you. You're nothing but a spendthrift and you'll

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Speaker 1: have nothing ever. And I was that guy. I was

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Speaker 1: that guy. I don't know where that girl is, but

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Speaker 1: I know where this guy is. I can I can

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Speaker 1: tell you about Dexter and Birdie living on the alley broke.

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Speaker 1: Anybody can go down on Courtland av and roam New

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Speaker 1: York and they can see how we lived. And it

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Speaker 1: was in a sloppy section. It was a poor section

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Speaker 1: of town. Don't tell me how bad you got it.

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Speaker 1: Tell me how good you're gonna get it. Don't tell

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Speaker 1: me about your problems, tell me about your dreams. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: hell yeah, yeah, that's a that's hot ship jack. That

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Speaker 1: is good American ng can you'll notice again part of

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Speaker 1: how like what keeps them safe from getting charged with

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Speaker 1: the ship they got charged in the past. He's not

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Speaker 1: like and often generally isn't like making specific promises about

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Speaker 1: am Way. He's making promises about like the way they

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Speaker 1: it started out. When these distributors started putting out these

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Speaker 1: motivate they'll be like they would be saying, like the

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Speaker 1: am Way. You know, if you sell the way I

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Speaker 1: tell you to sell, you're gonna be a millionaire in

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Speaker 1: six months. You'll get rich you'll get and that's illegal.

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Speaker 1: What he's doing is very general, and he's getting people.

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Speaker 1: It makes people believe, yeah, I can become a millionaire too.

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Speaker 1: It's all on me. It's totally on me to do

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Speaker 1: the work necessary. But he's also he's very says very

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Speaker 1: little about Amway like that's that's a general thing with

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Speaker 1: a lot of these folks. They're they're making these very

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Speaker 1: general motivational claims about what you're capable of, which is

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Speaker 1: not a crime. Um. Yeah, uh so that's cool, um,

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Speaker 1: but also knows like believing in yourself and not accepting

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Speaker 1: no for an answer and working the system, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: it could be a speech at literally any capitalist institution

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Speaker 1: about any job. And you say it could be a

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Speaker 1: speech like literally any capitalist institution. Part of what has

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Speaker 1: made the kind of speeches that I'm sure a lot

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Speaker 1: of people listening. You've gone to some sort of like

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Speaker 1: corporate event where somebody saying ship like that came up

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Speaker 1: just to motivate you, not necessarily for a scam, just

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Speaker 1: because like your company was like, well, let's hire a

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Speaker 1: motivational speaker. Right. The reason they all sound like Dexter

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Speaker 1: Yeager is because they're all copying. Guys like Dexter Yeager

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Speaker 1: and other people at Amway right like it. They helped

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Speaker 1: invent the concept of these kinds of motivational speeches that

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Speaker 1: are now everywhere you know, and there's other people too.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to pretend like this all came from

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Speaker 1: his mind, but this is really when this ship starts

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Speaker 1: happening the seventies and eighties, and by the nineties it's

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Speaker 1: it's a finely tuned machine. So Sue's doing the Amway circuit.

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Speaker 1: She's selling tapes, probably a lot like what we just played,

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Speaker 1: but with you know a lady Um and Dexter Yeager

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Speaker 1: who did that would regularly record messages about her and

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Speaker 1: he would put them out to Amway distributors via am Vox,

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Speaker 1: which was a voice messaging line. Am Way members were

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Speaker 1: encouraged to pay to have access to Richard de Vos,

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Speaker 1: an other high ranking Amway Grifters would often use it

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Speaker 1: to push members towards political action. We'll talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about that in a second. So when Sue

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Speaker 1: Erick runs for send it again in Nur, Yeager sends

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Speaker 1: out am Vox messages to everyone in his down line

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Speaker 1: Um and gets them to donate to her. Now this was,

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Speaker 1: as mother Jones will argue, very likely a crime. Quote

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Speaker 1: those messages may violate campaign laws. The use of corporate

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Speaker 1: resources on behalf of a federal campaign as illegal, says

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Cross, a former head of enforcement at the FEC.

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Speaker 1: Gross says that if Yeager used the voicemail system for fundraising,

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Speaker 1: the law required either am WE or Yeager to report

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Speaker 1: it as an in kind contribution that should have been

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Speaker 1: reimbursed by the Myrit campaign. If corporate resources are not

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Speaker 1: properly reimbursed, then it would result in a violation of

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Speaker 1: federal election laws. Gross says there is no FEC record

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Speaker 1: of any such contribution from am WE or from Yeager,

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Speaker 1: and WE spokesman Robert Loam says that Yeager rinse the

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Speaker 1: ambox service for per month. What he does with it

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Speaker 1: is his business. Liam said, Yeager would not Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: you get it right like you get and it worked

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Speaker 1: right like. Yeah, maybe it was illegal, but they didn't

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Speaker 1: get charged for it because I think that he gave

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Speaker 1: them enough of an excuse and they had enough people

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Speaker 1: in power that were sympathetic to am WE that nobody

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Speaker 1: went after them for this. And the messages worked. A

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Speaker 1: review of the FEC filing shows that at least a

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy one am We distributors and family members,

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Speaker 1: a hundred and forty three of whom did not live

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Speaker 1: in my ricks home state, gave my ricks campaign more

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Speaker 1: than a hundred and seventy eight thousand dollars in that

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Speaker 1: is election. When you're talking about, like us a Senate

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Speaker 1: race like that, that's enough to tip a fucking election. Um. Yeah. Also,

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Speaker 1: just every time you mentioned like a new Amway product

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Speaker 1: for the distributor is like am vox or the these

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Speaker 1: motivational tapes. I'm just like seeing a person who like

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Speaker 1: is like see somebody else using it and is like jealous.

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Speaker 1: They're like, Wow, they're hot. Ship they have access to

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Speaker 1: am vox and then like they you know, sell all

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Speaker 1: their kids toys so they can like pay for for

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Speaker 1: access to m vox. It's just like so dark and

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Speaker 1: so profoundly American. Yeah, dark and profoundly American is the

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Speaker 1: Amway motto. Now flush with real cash this time, Sue

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Speaker 1: Myrick won her Senate campaign. Once she was in office,

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Speaker 1: she wasted no time in co sponsoring a home office

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Speaker 1: deductibility bill, which offered tax write offs for independent contractors

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Speaker 1: who used their homes as offices, and was heavily pushed

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Speaker 1: by Amway. She pushed a bunch of bills that specifically

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Speaker 1: were in order to reduce the tax burden on people

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Speaker 1: who worked for Amway. On July, the day before Amway

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Speaker 1: announced a one point three million dollar donation to the

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Speaker 1: Republican Convention, Bob Dole announced his support for Sue's bill.

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Speaker 1: It's all very direct. You know, they fund her. She

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Speaker 1: pushes this bill, they give up one point three million

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Speaker 1: to the Republican Party. The next day, Bob Dole announces

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Speaker 1: he supports the bill like obviously right, Like it's not illegal,

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Speaker 1: it is corrupt um now uh. And also you know,

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Speaker 1: I I will admit, like when we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: scale of crimes and ways committed, a home office deductibility

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Speaker 1: bill is not the shadiest thing an elected leader has

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Speaker 1: ever pushed. I'm just laying this path out because it's

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Speaker 1: illustrative of how the company wields influence for a variety

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Speaker 1: of purposes, all geared towards protecting the profitability of Amway

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Speaker 1: for the people at the top. As myrick became and

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Speaker 1: stopping things from like the f There's a reason the

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Speaker 1: FEC didn't look into ship, right. There's a reason why

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Speaker 1: this stuff that might be illegal never gets prosecuted, and

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Speaker 1: it's because they've get friends in high places. Myrick became

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Speaker 1: very popular within the GOP. Speaker Newt Gingridge appointed her

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Speaker 1: as a freshman senator to the Budget Committee, which is

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Speaker 1: not like that's a very powerful position, like the big

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Speaker 1: deal and yeah, she's a freshman senator and gets in there. Um.

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Speaker 1: This was widely seen as Gingridge supplicating what became known

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Speaker 1: as the Amway Caucus, which concluded three other senators at

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Speaker 1: this point. So four senators are all like Amway distributors.

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Speaker 1: One of these senators, Jack has the best name I've

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Speaker 1: ever encountered for a senator. Give it to me. Dick Chrysler. What, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Dick Chrysler. There's a senator named Dick Chrysler. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: at least there wasn't the early nineties. Yeah, Dick Chrysler

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Speaker 1: and his his his Democratic rival Cockford. Dick Chrysler. Chrysler.

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Speaker 1: What an incredible name for an Amway distributor who becomes

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Speaker 1: a senator. Chrystler, here to tell you about the most

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Speaker 1: incredible opportunity. You never got to have to make a fortune.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, is that Dick Chrysler not his actual

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Speaker 1: like given name. That is one of the great works

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Speaker 1: of like authorship of all time. Whoever came up with

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Speaker 1: a named Dick Chrysler. Dick Chrysler, Richard Chrysler, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: his real name. Politician from Michelin, Michigan in Minnesota, but

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Speaker 1: of course, yeah, Chrysler, so Michigan. Yeah, Dick Chrysler in

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Speaker 1: office from N. S. Martin. He does look a bit

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Speaker 1: like Steve Martin. If Steve Martin looked kind of more

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Speaker 1: like Ship. Yeah, if Steve Martin looked a little bit

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Speaker 1: more like Ship, he would look like Dick Chrysler, just

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Speaker 1: like like he looks like Steve Martin got tanned by

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Speaker 1: just on his forehead though, just a forehead, like haphazardly

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Speaker 1: had himself like like sprayed with brown face or something.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing because the way the shading looks in this photo,

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Speaker 1: he's clearly a white man, but it also looks like

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Speaker 1: he's wearing white face because of that shade at the head. Hair.

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Speaker 1: He's skinning like the scalpist. What is happening? Yeah, nobody

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Speaker 1: taught him how to correctly blend his makeup. What a

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Speaker 1: fascinating looking man. Also, the person who succeeded him had

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Speaker 1: an incredible name, Debbie stab Now this is just like

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Speaker 1: old mine. Yeah, what an incredible Michigan. Something's going on

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Speaker 1: with people's names and fucking against Shout out to Michigan

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Speaker 1: for some entertainingly named legislators, at least one of whom

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Speaker 1: was a corrupt Amway chill um so. And we acknowledged

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Speaker 1: the existence of the Amway Caucus. In fact, they kind

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Speaker 1: of celebrated it. Company lobbyist John Gartland told Mother Jones

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Speaker 1: that the caucus would meet with him to discuss legislation

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Speaker 1: or set up conversations between senators and high level and

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Speaker 1: weight distributors. Quote, we'll tell them man Way's opinion. We

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Speaker 1: can't guarantee their votes, but they love Amway. There we go,

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Speaker 1: And so long as the Amway Caucus voted the right way,

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Speaker 1: they could count on a virtually limitless source of funding

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Speaker 1: from Mother Jones. Karen Karen and Craig Jones, both former distributors,

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Speaker 1: attended one rally where Sue Myrick spoke. She got up

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Speaker 1: with her husband and said you're the kind of people

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Speaker 1: we like, Karen says after Myrick speech, a Way leaders

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Speaker 1: passed around buckets for contributions and asked donors to write

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Speaker 1: their names and the names of their Amway sponsors or

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Speaker 1: upline on the envelope. Karen's husband Craig ads it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like you need to do this or else. It was

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Speaker 1: more like, if you're smart and you want your business

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Speaker 1: to grow, I'm sure your upline was aware if you

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Speaker 1: gave or if you didn't, so that's fucked up, um,

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Speaker 1: but not leg It's all just social pressure and like

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Speaker 1: building out this kind of network of like this community

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Speaker 1: where the cool thing to do is to just buy

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Speaker 1: into this thing and give people who are rich thing

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Speaker 1: you all your money. It's just basically the I be.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be shocked if like the Republican Party like

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Speaker 1: saw this and was like we've got they did Jack

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Speaker 1: Spoiler and we kind of helped create the modern Republican Party,

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Speaker 1: and this is this is the process, this is what

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Speaker 1: what's happening. Because they're also again they give a hunt

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Speaker 1: one point three million dollars to the ninety four Republican Convention.

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Speaker 1: They're giving meaningful amounts of money, and Republicans are paying attention.

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Speaker 1: Oh these guys, these we're getting more Republican senators in

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Speaker 1: competitive districts in some cases because am Way money and

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Speaker 1: because am Way is really good at organizing funding and

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Speaker 1: voting and stuff. There's a reason that Betsy DeVos was

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Speaker 1: the Secretary of Education, and it's because am Way money

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Speaker 1: and clout is really important to the Republican Party. They

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Speaker 1: are kind of kingmakers within the Republican Party. Um. Also, uh,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump has plugged for Amway in the past, So

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Speaker 1: I mean that makes perfect sense. Yep, yeah, it's good ship. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you can see again, so it's number one. They say, like, well,

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Speaker 1: these these caucus members, we just let them know what

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Speaker 1: Amway wants. We can't make them do anything. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: that money's pickett can get turned off for your re

425
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: election campaign if you don't make am Way happy, right,

426
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: which again is not illegal. A lot of other industries

427
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: do this. We're seeing this with Kristen Cinema right now. Um.

428
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: But you can see the financial value of this arrangement

429
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: for am Way, because again it is kind of hard

430
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: to tell, like what did this exactly resultant? I think

431
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: a good way to do that is to look at

432
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: what happened in a country where they do not have

433
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: political influence that's very close to the United States, and

434
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Canada. Um So, while the FTC gave

435
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: up on regulating Amway in nineteen seventy nine and they's

436
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: been smooth sailing for them ever since because they give

437
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: a lot of money, because they have a lot of

438
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: ties to American politicians, the same has not been true

439
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: in Canada. I'm not saying they have no ties to politicians,

440
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: but they do not have the kind of influence there

441
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: that they have here. In nineteen eighty nine, they paid

442
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: thirty eight million dollars to settle a lawsuit with the

443
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: Canadian Trade Office that alleged they'd been illegally skirt and

444
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: customs dues. In nineteen eighty three, the Province of Ontario

445
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: nailed away with a twenty five million dollar fine for fraud,

446
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: to which Amway pled guilty. So you can see why, like, yeah,

447
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: give a couple of million a year to the Republican Party.

448
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 1: It's gonna save us money in the long term because

449
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: we're not dealing with the kind of ship we're dealing

450
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: with in Canada. Um, that's why it's worth it for them. Um,

451
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: and it very much is. But you know who hasn't

452
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: been convicted of fraud in a Canadian court? Jack, that

453
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: nice and specific. I think we can probably probably yeah, absolutely,

454
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: none of the sponsors probably of our podcast. Oh we're

455
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: back and we're we're talking talking am Way. So uh.

456
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: Amway's deep integration with the Republican Party did not start

457
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: or end with just business. Over years of congenial relations,

458
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: the two melded together into something terrifying and inseparable. And

459
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: to walk through the story of the merging of Amway

460
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: and the Republican Party, I'm gonna have to peel back

461
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy nine one more time. That's the year

462
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: the religious right became an organized force in US politics

463
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: for the first time. The Moral Majority is formed in

464
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine, the night that that election. Reagan's election

465
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: is like the first time the religious right was a

466
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: political block in American politics. Um and yeah. This all

467
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: happened just in time, obviously, to to push Ronald Reagan

468
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: into the presidency. The Amway co found ounders were very

469
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: bullish on Ronald Reagan. Not only did they pour money

470
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: into supporting the campaign, but they encouraged other AMI leaders

471
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: to use their tax deductible business functions to get the

472
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: word out. As one former distributor claimed, they tell you

473
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: to always vote conservative no matter what they say. Liberals

474
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: support the homosexuals and let women get out of their place.

475
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: Richard DeVos and Javan Andel there the homosexual as well.

476
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: Speaking of the homosexuals, um well, not quite yet. So.

477
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: By the time he died in two thousand eighteen, Richard

478
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: DeVos had personally paid out more than two hundred million

479
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: dollars to fund the Republican Party and other right wing causes.

480
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: In addition to the groups we've already named that he

481
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: gave money to, he sent fortunes to the Family Research

482
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: Council Focus on the Family, and the Acting Institute. Richard's

483
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: generosity earned him serious rewards. This is where gay people

484
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: come into it again, unfortunately. Most notably, Ronald Reagan appointed

485
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: him the to the President's Mission on the HIV epidemic.

486
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, Richard DeVos. That fucking guy gets

487
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: put on the President, which tells you how seriously Reagan

488
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: treated HIV. Yeah, I get the Amway guy on there.

489
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: He knows that I deal with a pandemic, He'll clean

490
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: it right up with frisk You gotta frisk it so uh.

491
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: Richard DeVos later wrote of this time quote of his

492
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: time on the President's Commission on the HIV epitomic quote,

493
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: I listened to three witnesses tell us that it was

494
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: everybody else's fault, but their own, nothing to do with

495
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: their conduct, just that the government didn't fix this disease.

496
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: I said, you are responsible for your actions to you know,

497
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: conduct yourself properly, which is a pretty solid Christian principle. Wow. Yeah,

498
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: that's the guy you wid Christian principles right there? Yeah,

499
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: does his Shapiro voice out of nowhere? Yeah, it's my

500
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: right wing ship head voice. Richard used his influence to

501
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: fight vigorously against workplace democracy, supporting right to work laws

502
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: throughout the nineteen seventies by funding a variety of anti

503
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: worker organizations. These included the Committee for the Survival of

504
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: a Free Congress, the National Conservative Political Action Committee, the

505
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: American Conservative Union Victory Fund, the National Right to Work Committee,

506
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: and the Public Service Political Action Committee. AM We didn't

507
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: start the push to force right to work laws in

508
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: place across the country, just that They didn't start the

509
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: MLM industry, but their specific brew of grifting and political

510
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: activism was extremely influential and has been copied by every

511
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: generation of m l m s and right to work advocates.

512
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: Since we could talk, as we often do, about how

513
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: the state of Utah has famously lacks laws on supplements

514
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: because certain companies that sell essential oils have lobbied for

515
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: those laws. But that's a rant for another day. But

516
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: the point is that these like the fact that you

517
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: know you have, Utah has these very lax laws on supplements,

518
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: which benefit a variety of MLMs that have given money

519
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: to Utah politicians. Those MLMs are very much copying am Way.

520
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: They saw what worked and they're they're doing the same thing. Um.

521
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: It's not a super complicated story. Um right now, though,

522
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: let's talk about another way. Amway was an innovator in

523
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: mix in the field of mixing religion into conservative action

524
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: and into grifting. And I'm gonna quote from the an

525
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: article in Jacob in here quote. The sociologists David Bromley

526
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: and Anson Shoop have argued that what is unique about

527
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: Amway is not its melding of God and capitalism, and

528
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: am Album almost as old as Christianity itself. Instead, the

529
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: power of Amway lies in its ability to harness these

530
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: ideologies to motivate individual sales persons far beyond the scope

531
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: of their actual remuneration or realistic prospects. Thereof, Amway takes

532
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: free market worship a step further, garnering much of its

533
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: wealth from selling the idea of prosperity itself. Upper level

534
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: distributors the top two percent, don't sell soap. They hawk

535
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: constructional seminar, CDs, books, website access, voicemail recordings, and other

536
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: sales tools to the lower level sales force at huge

537
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: profit margins, as Amway profit and profit and profiteer Dexter

538
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeager once noted when describing Amway's model, if you work

539
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: just for money, you'll reach a point where you may

540
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: have enough and you'll let up. We build relationships, and

541
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: people don't normally quit on people who love them. That

542
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: is no it just it brings to mind earlier that

543
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: Amway couple who got scammed out like fifty grand and

544
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: four years who like sold their home and moved to

545
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: be closer to their upline because you make them think

546
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: that you care about them, right, that's how you get

547
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: money from these people. Yeah, yeah, you just gotta if

548
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: you And also you're constantly having to explain to them

549
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: why they're losing money, right, so you have to you

550
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: have to just be like I mean, if you lived closer,

551
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: maybe we could like make something work a little bit better.

552
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: Oh ship, you just bought the house down the street

553
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: from me. Um, you guys just don't want it enough. Um.

554
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: The degree to which the energy and like what you

555
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: see at an MLM versus the actual product that is

556
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: being sold, like our completely out of uh, any sort

557
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: of like ratio to one another is always interesting to me.

558
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: Like the fact that am way is like you heard

559
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: that guy speak about like you know, he was basically

560
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: selling the fact that that mean woman didn't want to

561
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: funk him, and like he you know, he's the best, uh,

562
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: but like the thing he's selling is shitty soap, like

563
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: substandard like soap, bad toilet paper, bad toilet paper. H Yeah,

564
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: it's amazing. And that's again what's amazing to me is that,

565
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: like you know, we we we talk a lot in

566
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: the old the old cracked uh crew about like how

567
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: at times unreasonable everybody's devotion to work was and about

568
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: like the workloads that we would take on. But it's

569
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: because we like we we were doing the thing that

570
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: was our dream as opposed to selling bargain terrible soap

571
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: for a markup. Like That's what the genius of Amway

572
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: is getting the like you always will have people who

573
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: are willing to like put in unbelievable amounts of work

574
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: for things they love. Am we got people to do

575
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: that for nonsense, and they figured out that the way

576
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: to do it was it's not about the product, It's

577
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: about what these people believe about America and capitalism. And

578
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: and that's the thing that's hardest for me. I can

579
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: I can imagine like doing like I can imagine selling

580
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: my home and moving. I can imagine like working you know,

581
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: unbelievable hours, um even doing a chunk of it for

582
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: no money, which I've done before for like my novel,

583
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: right I, where I spent hundreds of hours working effectively

584
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: for free to write a novel. It's because I loved

585
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: the thing. The thing that Amway does that's so scary

586
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: is they're able to hack people into doing it for

587
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: like nothing. None of them care about soap, like they're

588
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: not like huge into Amway brand Ziploc bags. That's the

589
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: thing that's so like fucked up, And that's the thing

590
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: that I don't think it's possible without the cult ship, right,

591
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: Like that's people a way that they in which they

592
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: resent the products because it's like so out of wack

593
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: with like they're like selling their lives for these like

594
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: shitty paper paper plastic products. So it's just like, yeah,

595
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: it's like how you you get people who will work

596
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: And I mean you can we can talk about like

597
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: the degree to which it's a little messed up, but

598
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: people who are willing to like take huge pay cuts

599
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: to work for like SpaceX because they believe in space travel, right,

600
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: because they have there's a real dream that they're pursuing

601
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: that this company is letting them pursue. And it's it's

602
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: amazing that Amway is able to do that. But the

603
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: dream is making Rich Divace richer, Like that's what you're

604
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: giving up your life for. It's the dream of making

605
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 1: Rich Divace more money so that he can fund anti

606
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: union legislation around the country. And it's like and the

607
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 1: central tenant is like happiness through will power and through

608
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: being able to like just kind of focus on like

609
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: put blinders to everything except what's in front of you

610
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: and just yeah, just will yourself to happiness, which is yeah.

611
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: And it's the kind of like this is not one

612
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: of those episodes like with Nexium where we're gonna talk

613
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: about a cult leader who like raped a thousand women

614
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: or whatever, Like this is not one of those episodes

615
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: with like a body count, but there is when you

616
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: have to when you actually try to, like the body

617
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: count of Emily, it's like that one couple lost four

618
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: and a half years to it. That the amount of

619
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: I imagine if all of these people had had either

620
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 1: been working on something they truly cared about that wasn't

621
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: just like making rich divoce rich, had had been pursuing

622
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: a real dream beyond selling soap, or that they just

623
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: put that time into their families, Like it's the the

624
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: evil of amilies. Like the cumulative probably tens of millions

625
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: of hours of human life that could have been spent

626
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 1: making something worthwhile or being with the people they loved

627
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 1: that was instead spent selling soap. I mean, that's yeah,

628
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: that's true. I think of a lot of current you know,

629
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: there's that essay from uh. I think it's like ten

630
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 1: twelve years ago about bullshit jobs and just how many. Yeah,

631
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: it will only exists to justify a boss having somebody

632
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: to like push around, essentially, and they don't contribute to

633
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: the greater good of society. And in fact, like a

634
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: lot of times they hurt and like people know that,

635
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: and that's doing like psychic damage. And these are like,

636
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes creative people who just happened to you know,

637
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: this is where they landed, and like it's it's kind

638
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: of hopeful because it's like there's so much time and

639
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: energy and you know, ingenious like yeah, human brilliance, charismatic

640
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: people with like you know, who are putting all of

641
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: that energy and inspiration towards just non sense and like

642
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: so yes, we have like a World War two level

643
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: problem to solve in in climate change, but like it's

644
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 1: like we the energy is there, the like capital is there.

645
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: It's just a matter of like getting people to fucking

646
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: put it towards something that will actually like save us. Yeah, yeah,

647
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: that's the that's the thing that's and you know, I wonder,

648
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: because I guess I've a debate in my own head,

649
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: what's sadder the person who works a bullshit job that

650
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: exists to like give someone an underlaying or to perform

651
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: some other meanings purpose and knows it. But at least

652
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: like that, you're making money, right, and often oftentimes a

653
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: lot of money. A lot of bullshit jobs pay you well,

654
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 1: as opposed to a bullshit job where you give up

655
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: everything in order to make someone else rich and you

656
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: do nothing for society or for yourself. Really, that's the

657
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: sad one. Yeah, I don't even get to like, you know,

658
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: do the thing that makes them happy while pretending to work,

659
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: like you know, work on their novel or fucking names

660
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: or whatever. I do know a lot of people who

661
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: work with they admire bullshit jobs and are perfectly happy. Well, yeah,

662
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: it's it's my you know, I do third forty hours

663
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: a week. I spent half the time like reading a

664
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 1: book anyway, and then I come home and I get

665
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: to live my life and it's like, we'll fine. That's

666
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 1: not the best human beings could be, but like whatever,

667
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: like everybody makes compromises as opposed to Yeah, I don't know.

668
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: This has been a long like existential digression about what's

669
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: like horrifying about am way. It's not one of those

670
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: things where I could say like a ways evil because

671
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: they killed ex people or because the founder was a

672
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: child molester. It's a ways evil because of like this

673
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: gaping mall that swallows human potential. Yes, and just like

674
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: the the hope in that person's face. When I can't,

675
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: I keep coming back to voxwear am vox and like

676
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: just like being like I'm gonna buy am vox and

677
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: all my problems are going to be over because that

678
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: is me leveling up and this is the way. And

679
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: then they sign up for this and get to call

680
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: in and just like have somebody tell them to buy

681
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: something else that give money to sue MYRICKX lobby for Amway.

682
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, it's bleak, it is. I do

683
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: wish I had access to a reputable independent biography that

684
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: talked to folks from Richard Devas's early life and from

685
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: from Javon Andels all Amway publications. I found. Note that

686
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: both of their families were religious. Obviously they both went

687
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: to like a religious private school. Um, but I don't know,

688
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: like to what extent evangelism was the Obviously they were

689
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: huge about it within their their jobs at Amway. They

690
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: were big about like the pushing evangelism. I don't know

691
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: the degree to which they actually believed in anything. Was

692
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 1: this just like a convenient way for them to cloak

693
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: their radical free market ideology, or was it like critical

694
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: to their self perception that they believe God wants me

695
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: to have this wealth? Because there's certainly a lot of

696
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: like people who are like that, like prosperity gospel stuff.

697
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what these people actually believed, And I

698
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: just don't have the kind of insight into their early

699
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: lives to know, like how much of this was maybe

700
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: directly what they were raised to believe as opposed to

701
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: something they came up with, you know, post hawc too.

702
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: I just don't know. Um. The purpose of religion in amway, though,

703
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 1: as in the modern Republican Party, is to render debate

704
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: over economic and political issues impossible. If capitalism is a

705
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: system made by people for the benefit of a segment

706
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: of the population, then it can be criticized. It can

707
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: even be altered or abolished entirely in order to build,

708
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: you know, either make it better or replace it with

709
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: something better. If capitalism is a system made by people,

710
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: it can be changed or removed. Right. But if property

711
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: rights in the free market are divinely inspired and the

712
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: United States was chosen by God to be a Christian

713
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: nation specifically to protect free enterprise and the property of

714
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: the wealthy. Well, then there is no room for debate.

715
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: Then it's wholly to be an entrepreneur right um, which

716
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: is now kind of a Republican gospel, But but it

717
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: was really introduced in a big way. Again, these are

718
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: not the only people, as we talked about, like the

719
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 1: religious right, this is part of a Hodder movement. But

720
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: Richard DeVos is one of the major people pushing this.

721
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: He's a huge part of why this is so prominent

722
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: because he's got number one, the money to be that

723
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: influential again, two hundred million dollars over his lifetime that

724
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: he put into pushing these causes. It seems accurate to say,

725
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: though that amway was initially before it became as big

726
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: as it was, a lot less religious than it became,

727
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: just as it was initially less political than it became.

728
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: The process of both started in the nineteen seventies when

729
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: von Andel and Divos became very wealthy, and by the

730
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 1: early nineteen nineties Emily meetings had taken on the characteristics

731
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: of a revival gathering. One distributor told a journalist at

732
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: the time after a meeting, quote, it wasn't like any

733
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: church I had ever been to. I saw people professing

734
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,919
Speaker 1: their faith in Jesus Christ and not ashamed. I didn't

735
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: see one person who reached high levels who didn't acknowledge

736
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: the Lord and give him credit for the success. Now,

737
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: there are a lot of Famiway horror stories you can

738
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: find online. Read It in particular, has a whole community,

739
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: the anti MLM subreddit with nearly three quarters of a

740
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: million members that's dedicated to telling story different MLM s,

741
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of Amway stories there. I want

742
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: to read one that I think there's a good job

743
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: of laying out the culti nature of the company, like

744
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: where the kind of entrepreneur stuff intersects with just straight

745
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: up cult ship quote. My ex husband got involved in

746
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: the Amway. Every cent of our minuscule budget in our

747
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: twenties was spent on expensive products, training materials, and conferences.

748
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: I made it clear that it was his thing that

749
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be involved. I tried supporting him

750
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: in meetings, but there was always a pressure to convert

751
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: me as being an unsupportive spouse. He argued with me

752
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: that the hours I spent commuting to university to complete

753
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: post grad studies could be better spent prospecting new sales

754
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: for him. Sure. Yeah, The only way I survived this

755
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: part of my life was to sleep on trains during

756
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 1: the commute as I went to school light hours, commuted

757
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 1: five hours, then lectured at college six to ten pm

758
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: each night. You do the math. I was exhausted. He

759
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: glowingly reported how many Amway big wigs showed up to

760
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: conferences and limousines. I argued that I too could rent

761
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: a limo and appear to be prosperous for about a

762
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: hundred dollars. The training material where nothing short of brainwashing.

763
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: He listened to them religiously. Then he started prospecting my

764
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: family and friends. Our marriage was on a down slide

765
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: since this, I couldn't take the passive aggressive demands that

766
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: because I saw more people on a daily basis than him,

767
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: that I owed it to him to prospect them. The

768
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: day that I decided to leave him, I had my

769
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: bags packed and was walking out the door. He said,

770
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: don't blame Amway for this. Am Way is just a

771
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: vehicle for success. Rhetoric from his training materials. I kept

772
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: walking like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's really bad. I thought

773
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: he was gonna that's a great twist at the end

774
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: that the thing he's most afraid of is that she's

775
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: going to lame Amia for just a vehicle for success. Jack. Yeah,

776
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: that's this is my fault. I failed as a husband,

777
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: not anyone. I was a shitty husband because I wanted

778
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: you to give up your post grad dreams and or

779
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: at least try to convert your fellow grad students to

780
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: sell am Way. Oh my god. Yeah, there is a

781
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: bottomless well of stories like this, Jack, and I want

782
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: to read one other one that I think gets to

783
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: just how deranged people are when they're stuck in kind

784
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: of the worst level of am Way uh coldishness. I

785
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: was in the military and lived far from posts, so

786
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: to get to PT physical training in the morning, I

787
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: had to wake up at five am and leave by

788
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: five fifteen AM. We usually networked until eleven pm each

789
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: night at amway after work, and I wouldn't go to

790
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: bed until midnight or later because we'd only eat dinner

791
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: after networking. Well, on a Friday, after a big meeting

792
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: that lasted towards two AM, I got up at five

793
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: like normal. Keep in mind, we're told that listening to

794
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: any music that is negative or not value based would

795
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: hold you back being a metal head and only into

796
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: rap and only into wrap and hip hop, mint that

797
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: I shouldn't listen to anything I like, So usually I

798
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: just listened to my Bible app The Bible narrator has

799
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: the most monotone voice voice ever, and some parts of

800
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: the Bible are seriously the most boring and arduous things

801
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: you could ever hear. Just about being real. Also the

802
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: only drink I'd allow myself to dre because either water

803
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: or excess. Excess is an energy drink with enough caffeine

804
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: and vitamins to do absolutely nothing, especially a few pounds

805
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: six a day. Seriously, if a sleeping fly fell into

806
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 1: that drink, I would drown before waking up. So, driving

807
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: down the highway after a long night, I passed out

808
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: at the wheel even though I was drinking an excess.

809
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: My car lurched to the right and caught the ridges

810
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: on the edge of the road, And if I didn't

811
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: jerk the wheelback and skid onto the road, I would

812
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: have caught the railing. What's sad is I patted myself

813
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: on the back for being so tired, because it meant

814
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 1: I was a hard worker. We didn't leave until over

815
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: a year later, and nearly falling asleep at the wheel

816
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: was a common occurrence at least two or three times

817
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: a week. And man, that's what the rumble strips are for,

818
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's what they're there for, guys, for

819
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: the way reps, for its to grind and for the

820
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: grinders out there endemic among especially enlisted uh like soldiers,

821
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: like because soldiers don't make a lot of money, but

822
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: they'll often get like a signing a bonus, so you'll

823
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: you'll have tin grand and some a wa like, hey,

824
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: you want to just waste that or do you want

825
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: to turn that into a fortune? You want to be

826
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: able to not have to work in the future. You know, Um,

827
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: it's it's uh, it's the best jack I U I know,

828
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: like I there's I found myself when you were telling

829
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: the story about the person whose husband like got husband's

830
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: life got taken over by a way uh like being like,

831
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 1: how did she end up with such a dummy when

832
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: she was like such a you know, a grad student.

833
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 1: But I was also just realizing, like I've known people

834
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: who were in medical school, who got whose lives who

835
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: ended up devoting their lives to multi level marketing, Like

836
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: who are still like trying to recruit me able to

837
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: level marketing? Like there's yeah, it's uh. And you know,

838
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 1: the same thing they say, like cult members are tend

839
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,959
Speaker 1: to be just as if not more intelligent than non

840
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: cult members, Like I'm sure that it's not an intelligence thing. Yeah, yeah,

841
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: it's what you're vulnerable to. You know. It's in the

842
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: same way Jack that like, getting addicted to drugs doesn't

843
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: mean you're dumb. It means you're vulnerable to whatever drug

844
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: it is, right, Like there's a bunch of people who

845
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: can do cocaine at a party once and never want

846
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: to do it again, and then there's somebody who does

847
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: it and it it just captures them, and it's it's

848
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: just it's the same thing with colts. People have for

849
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: whatever reason, what Amway puts out, the specific kind of

850
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: propaganda latches on to certain kinds of people's heads, and

851
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: it's it can it can destroy anybody who's got kind

852
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: of the right vulnerabilities to it. It's like a virus um.

853
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: I did want to note, by the way that the

854
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 1: excess energy drink that that guy says nearly got him

855
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: killed because it's so shitty is an Amway product and

856
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: if you buy it, Jack, you can get twelve cans

857
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 1: for twenty four dollars. And here's the best part, forty

858
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: eight am perks points. Wow. Okay, now we're talking. Now,

859
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: we're talking eighty milligrams of caffeine per can, which is nonsense.

860
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: That's not enough. I feel like I think it's a

861
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: hundred and eleven hundred eleven okay, yeah, um, I think

862
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: the highest that energy drinks goes like two hundred usually

863
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: without as the highest they can go without like, uh,

864
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: you know, threatening to explode your heart. But yeah, we

865
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: even need a heart for is what I ask. Excess

866
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: but excess, yeah not. I wouldn't call it excessive. I

867
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: wouldn't call it eighty milligrams of caffeine per can excessive. Now.

868
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: In two thousand eight, as a result of lawsuits in

869
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: the UK, government authorities carried out a mass survey of

870
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 1: am We distributors in that country. They found that out

871
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: of a population of thirty three thousand UK distributors, only

872
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: ninety people made enough money to cover the costs of

873
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: operating the business. So at of thirty three thousand, ninety

874
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: at least broke even I assume some of those people

875
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: got rich, right, because there were a lot of three

876
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: thousand people. That's a lot of down line, but ninety

877
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: the total number of people who are either got rich

878
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: or didn't go into debt was ninety out of three. Yeah,

879
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess right, like Robert of covering costs

880
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: so we can operate our business. Speaking of covering costs,

881
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,280
Speaker 1: you know who more than ninety out of every thirty

882
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: three thousand people make a profit from uh? Is that

883
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: the products? Yeah, that's right, Jack, products and services support

884
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: this podcast. I don't know. I'm not entirely certain what

885
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: claim we're making either. So that's the way it goes.

886
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't know what you're doing and you just

887
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: do it anyway, like am we ah, we're back and yeah,

888
00:49:55,200 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: so let's uh, let's let's let's let's so yeah. Um yeah,

889
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: thank you, Jack, thank you for appreciating my professionalism. So

890
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 1: one of my favorite articles, if you want to get

891
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 1: like an idea of the desperation uh of Amway people

892
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: who really buy into it? Who who drink the kool

893
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: aid so to speak? So This is not a fault

894
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: the author. It's an article I came across in The Baffler,

895
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,479
Speaker 1: which is one of my favorite publications. The author, Matt Roth,

896
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: was invited to Amway buy a coworker someone he respected,

897
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: who got roped into am Way with her husband. He

898
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: attended a handful of motivational events for distributors, and he

899
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: even purchased a small number of products. I don't think

900
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 1: eve Or bought into it, but he, like I think

901
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: he believed at one point, well, maybe this is a

902
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: business opportunity. I don't know. He also was a writer,

903
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: so it may have just been like, I want to

904
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 1: see what's going on in this weird subculture. Much a

905
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: Matt's article delves into what a horrible deal and Way

906
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,760
Speaker 1: is for its distributors. One of their main selling points

907
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: is that am We distributors get away products wholesale prices,

908
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: great products. So even if you're only buying the products

909
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: for yourself, it's a good deal because you're gonna save

910
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: money on the stuff you need from your house. You

911
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: get cheaper detergent, toilet paper and all that stuff. Right. Um.

912
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: Matt found that not only were a lot of Amways

913
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: products of questionable quality um, but their wholesale prices were

914
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: at best slightly cheaper than supermarket retail prices for brand Yeah.

915
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: Matt's friends repeated to him the line that that distributors

916
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: enjoyed at discount on basic goods, which on its own

917
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: might make being an am Way worth it. But this

918
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: would appear to be a complete falsehood. None of the

919
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: promises and Way made hold up to even a tiny

920
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 1: degree of scrutiny. But that's why the company spends fairly

921
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: little effort on these claims. The products again, and I

922
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: would bring people in. What brings people in is a

923
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: mix of peer pressure and the sheer spectacle of Amway events,

924
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: which are forcefully pushed on new recruits and distributors to

925
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: keep them in business. One of the first Amway events

926
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: Matt went to was something called Dream Night. It began

927
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 1: with the triumphal entrance of the Amway Diamond couples half

928
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 1: jogging through a gauntlet of high fives to the theme

929
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: from Rocky As the audience Right as the audience ruled

930
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 1: It's amazing, as the audience whooped in hollard and twirled

931
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: their napkins over their heads. When the standing ovation finally

932
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 1: tapered off, the m C offered a prayer thanking God

933
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,320
Speaker 1: for the fact that we lived in a free enterprise

934
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: system where there were no government agents kicking down the

935
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: doors of meetings like dream Night. I'm just so embarrassed

936
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: for them. All. Yeah, I guess I don't need to be,

937
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: because they're they're having a great time. As dinner wound down,

938
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: the video screens displayed a picture of what the guy

939
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: next to me was quick to identify as a twenty

940
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: thousand dollar Rolex watch. He went on to tell of

941
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: a fellow he knew who had a thirty thousand dollar

942
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 1: Rolex and who couldn't tell the time. For the glare

943
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: of the golden diamonds. As its hands reached midnight, the

944
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: rolex dissolved into a series of video montages depicting the

945
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: consumers shangri law that our own forthcoming and way success

946
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: would open for us. We leered as a day at

947
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: at We leared as a day in the life of

948
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: a typical job holder, all alarm clocks, traffic jams, and

949
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 1: dingy cubicles, was contrasted with that of an amway distributor

950
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: who slept in and lounged the day away with his family.

951
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: We talked hungrily his real life Amway millionaires, strutted about

952
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 1: sprawling estates, proudly referred to his family compounds, and explained

953
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,800
Speaker 1: that such opulence was ours for the asking. We chortled

954
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: as a highway patrolman stopped an expensive sports car for speeding,

955
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 1: only to ride away a moment later with an Amway

956
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: sample kits strapped to his motorcycle. Our laughter became a

957
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: roar of delight as that cam resumed in on the

958
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 1: sports cars bumper sticker, jobless and rich. Yeah, and that

959
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: Jack gets to one of the things I find most

960
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: interesting about Amway and its place in our culture. Richard

961
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: de Vos was the ultimate cheerleader of the side hustle,

962
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: grindset capitalist attitude. He was a man who got famous

963
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: saying stuff like this. If I had to select one quality,

964
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: one personal characteristic that I regardless being most highly correlated

965
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: with success, whatever the field, I would pick the trade

966
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: of persists determination, the will to endure to the end,

967
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: to get knocked down seventy times and get up off

968
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: the floor saying here comes number seventy one, which is

969
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: a great thing to get people to believe. If you

970
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: want them to spend years giving all their money to

971
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: Amway and grind get my paper up am Way, and

972
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: we's yeah, And he's a huge, huge originator of that

973
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: attitude of the grinds, that you got a grind attitude.

974
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: But also at the same time, a massive amount of

975
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: their propaganda revolves around the idea that there's basically nothing

976
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: worse than having a job. And I want to read

977
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: a quote from Amanda Montell's book Coltish next quote and

978
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: am Way the world's biggest MLM. Anyone who works for

979
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: an employer as opposed to an upline mentor is said

980
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 1: with disdain to have a job or jackass of a boss.

981
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 1: When you work for someone else, you will never get

982
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: paid what you're worth. And we's recruits are all taught

983
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: to say to m l M r's the word entrepreneur

984
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: represents not just a career, but a morally superior way

985
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: of being in the economy, comments Nicole Wolsey Biggert, U C. Davis,

986
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: socie oologist and author of Charismatic Capitalism, Direct selling Organizations

987
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: in America. M l m's gaslight you into believing that

988
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 1: if you follow their flawless system and don't succeed, there

989
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: is simply something wrong with you. Every willing and hard

990
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:14,919
Speaker 1: working person can be successful in this business. A good

991
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: system always works is a thought terminating cliche pulled from

992
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: Amway's handbook. There are countless MLM vision boards all across

993
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: the web featuring emotionally manipulative platitudes like people often fail

994
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: in m l M s before they ever begin because

995
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: the approaches from the head, not from the heart. And

996
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: I really hate when broke people who don't work complain

997
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: about being broke hashtag billionaire mindset. In an audible titled

998
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: Top fifty MLM Quotes of All Time, the website online

999
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: m l M community dot com showcases a litany of

1000
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: misattributed inspirational quotes, including this axiom falsely associated with Winston Churchill.

1001
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: The pessimists sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimists sees

1002
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: opportunity and every difficulty as if the British statesman success

1003
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: has had anything to do with direct sales, or if

1004
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: even if the quote were really his. Yeah, right, I mean,

1005
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: like yeah, Churchill or Ship or Einstein. Like if you

1006
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 1: want to just make your quote sound like it's smart,

1007
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 1: just give it to them. I'm pretty sure that speak

1008
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: in uh like like quippy reverse holes of like phrases.

1009
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: Uh No, whiter Churchill was, for one thing, when he

1010
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: was witty, a lot wittier than that. Um Yeah. Am

1011
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: Way is essentially the arch cult of American capitalism, and

1012
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: it's now spread across the world and into the highest

1013
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: levels of power. It's a lure comes from both a

1014
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: religious worship of capitalism and a bald faced admission that

1015
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: the realities of life under capitalism are unbearable and ways

1016
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: pitch doesn't work if you don't think one of the

1017
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: worst things possible is to work a job all your life,

1018
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 1: right like like that. That's that's this key factor in

1019
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: why their ship works. The solution to how nightmarish it

1020
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,439
Speaker 1: is to live in like the economy is to leave

1021
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 1: the daily grind and instead work yourself to the bone

1022
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: to make your Amway dreams come true so that one

1023
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 1: day you can quit working and give speeches to cheering

1024
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: crowds while light shows play. It's an incredible grift. Richard

1025
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: DeVos died on September six, two thousand eighteen, at ninety two.

1026
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: He was worth more than five billion dollars. Yeah, he

1027
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: died like the two hundred richest person in the world

1028
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: at the time j Van Andel died in two thousand

1029
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: four of Parkinson's. His family today is worth four point

1030
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: seven billion dollars. I'm sure you all know of the

1031
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: divoce clan and have been waiting for the moment where

1032
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: we discuss them now. One thing I find interesting is

1033
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: that when rich died he was worth five point one billion,

1034
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: and today the family's worth an estimated five point four billion,

1035
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: so they've gotta buy about three hundred million dollars since

1036
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen when he dropped Um. Betsy Divas is

1037
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: Richard's daughter in law, so she's not a blood relative.

1038
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 1: She was originally a prince like her brother Eric Prince Um,

1039
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,439
Speaker 1: but she has conducted herself in a way that would

1040
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: have made rich proud. She is also a Christian supremacist.

1041
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: She attended a very expensive Christian school as a child

1042
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: for basically her whole education, and as an adult she

1043
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: became the Republican National Committee woman from Michigan and chair

1044
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: of the Michigan Republican Party. She used her position very

1045
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: effectively to advocate for charter schools. Leaked videotapes in two

1046
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: thousand seventeen revealed Betsy admitting that her goal in doing

1047
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: this was to hinder secular public schools, which she called

1048
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: a dead end, and provide public funding to religious schools

1049
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: and thus, in her words, advance God's kingdom. When Donald

1050
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: Trump made her the Secretary of Education, she was only

1051
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: barely confirmed. Mike Pence, another religious extremists, cast the tie

1052
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: breaking vote. Here's how the website chalk Beat, which is

1053
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: dedicated to education, sums up her legacy as the Secretary

1054
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: of Education. In her first year as Education Secretary, Devos's

1055
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: Education department revoked guidance that spelled out how school should

1056
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 1: protect transgender students, which included providing them access to facilities

1057
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: corresponding to their gender identity. DeVos reportedly opposed the change

1058
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: at first, but eventually went along with it, saying the

1059
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: issues were best left to states in local school districts.

1060
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: Eliza Bayard, the executive director of g l s e N,

1061
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: which advocates on behalf of LGBTQ students, said the effects

1062
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: were chilling and immediate. Several g s l e N

1063
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: chapters reported cases of transgender students losing access to bathrooms

1064
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: they've been able to use before. Bayard noted transgender students

1065
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: who filed civil rights complaints with the department after being

1066
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: denied bathroom access had their cases thrown out. In two

1067
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: thousand and eighteen, Divos rolled back the Obama administration's guidance

1068
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: around school discipline, as well as guidance for school districts

1069
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: that wanted to use race and admissions and enrollment decisions

1070
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 1: to integrate their schools. It's unclear how many school districts

1071
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: changed their policies in response. Devosa's Education Department also quickly

1072
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: closed many of the civil rights investigations that inherited from

1073
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: the Obama administration, then limiting the length and scope of

1074
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 1: the investigations that did conduct. DeVos also blocked some efforts

1075
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: to disegregate schools, ending a program that would have given

1076
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: school districts twelve million dollars for school integration efforts. Without

1077
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,439
Speaker 1: the federal money, many districts abandoned their ideas. So, yeah, Jack,

1078
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: it's been a pretty bad run of her Secretary of Education.

1079
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 1: She nailed it. You know, she's just like when when

1080
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: she's in a room, you know, it's just you get

1081
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: the sense of competence. Like we all saw that sixty

1082
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: minutes interview. Uh, there's a woman who should be in

1083
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: charge of how all kids in America learn. Yes, yes,

1084
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: nailed it. My brain is so poisoned by um, you know,

1085
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: modern media and like the billionaire off that we get

1086
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: to witness between Bezos and Elon Musk that I, um,

1087
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: when I heard five billion, I was a little bit like, oh,

1088
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: that's all that, But uh so I I always this

1089
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: is a simple trick, but it always works for me.

1090
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: Comparing five million seconds, which is a fifty seven days,

1091
01:00:55,720 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: to five billion seconds, which is one and fifty eight years. Um,

1092
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 1: it was always helpful for me to just kind of

1093
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: put the just completely uh just unethical amount of wealth

1094
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: you need to have to be a billionaire in perspective. Yeah,

1095
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: and every hour, every dollar in that bank account is

1096
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,439
Speaker 1: again like dreams, not pursued, family, not spent time with,

1097
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 1: like debt incurred. It's it's it's money made breaking people.

1098
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: Like the original divosca I was going to probably be

1099
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: successful and powerful no matter what he did, and he

1100
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: went into stealing money from people and then spending all

1101
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: his time convincing people it was okay. Yeah, and he's

1102
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's a part of this broader like the

1103
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: destruction of the middle class and the growth of the

1104
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: billionaire class. He just did it very directly by just

1105
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 1: taking the middle classes money, making the mortgage their homes,

1106
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: and giving them fairy tales. Um. It's great um as

1107
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: a billionaire thanks to while both her her dad who

1108
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: was rich in Richard Junior's inheritance, her husband who is

1109
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: also rich divas but you know Junior, Betsy has poured

1110
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: almost two million into anti LGBT causes in recent years.

1111
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 1: She and her husband funded the passage of right to

1112
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: work legislation in Michigan, and the exact wording of the

1113
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: legislation they pushed just being used as a blueprint for

1114
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: efforts in the remaining twenty three U s States without

1115
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: right to work laws. We can all be grateful that

1116
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: Betsy's general legislative incompetence, which was matched by the incompetence

1117
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 1: of the Trump administration, meant that she failed in many

1118
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: of her goals. Charter schools were not massively expanded, Department

1119
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: of Education funding was not cut to a massive degree.

1120
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 1: The most sweeping changes she supported required an entirely compliant Congress,

1121
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: and we as a nation just weren't quite ready to

1122
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: end public education yet. But Betsy Divas and Richard Devas

1123
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: are hell bent on continuing the legacy of Richard Devas

1124
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: Senior using the Amway money that's still daily pours into

1125
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: their coffers. They see this wealth is entitling them to

1126
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: rule over the rest of us. Betsy wrote a column

1127
01:02:57,840 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: for the magazine Roll Call where she made this very

1128
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: clear quote, I've decided to stop taking offense at the

1129
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: suggestion that we are buying influence. Now I simply concede

1130
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: the point they are right, we do expect something in return.

1131
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: Is like, this is the role that you are called

1132
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: to system. Um Yeah, just really a great sort of

1133
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: um crystallization of all the you know, just most rotten

1134
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: uh values that were created by the the original sin

1135
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: of this company. And then also like a great illustration

1136
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: of the diminished returns that you get by just being

1137
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: just through nepotism and spoiled shitty uh you know children. Yeah, yeah,

1138
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:59,919
Speaker 1: well Jack, that's our episode. Um. I wanted to write,

1139
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: you actually need to go get to dream night. Uh Yeah,

1140
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta do your dream night. I'm gonna

1141
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: be a dream night double diamond. You gotta you gotta

1142
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: walk through that. That that cheering crowd. Um, Jack Pontiac.

1143
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: But Jack Pontiac, because you always drive up well, no

1144
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 1: one would brag about that. Um. Your fiarro is a

1145
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 1: nice carta baby. Um. Yeah, I want to remind people

1146
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: again we've got one of our fans is putting out

1147
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: a comic book series. Ringo Award nominated comic creator Brenton

1148
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: Lingle is a trying to crowd fund d Rudy Shadow

1149
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: of the People, about an anarchist UH militant during the

1150
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: Spanish Civil War Wind of Ventura. Do Rudy. You can

1151
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: find and back his comic on Kickstarter if you just

1152
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: type in d U r r U t I d

1153
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: rudy U at Kickstarter, and if you back at the

1154
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: book level or higher and comment bastards, you'll get a

1155
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: unique signed to print for free sod Rudy on Kickstarter.

1156
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: Check it out, Jacky. People can find you at The Zeitgeist. Yeah,

1157
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: the Daily zeit Geist, the twice daily podcast that I

1158
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: host with former Nest Miles Gray. Soon it's just gonna

1159
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 1: be You're never not podcasting. Yeah, That's where That's where

1160
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 1: I'm headed. And you can also follow me on Twitter

1161
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 1: at Jack underscore O'Brien O b r I E. I

1162
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: think I am excited Jack for when we just install

1163
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: uh recording equipment in your head on a daily basis,

1164
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: and and there's you're never able to You're never able

1165
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: to stop podcasting all the time, no matter what. That

1166
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: grind mentality you know, rise and grind, gotta get my

1167
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: paper up. Uh yeah, I'm and it's gonna be rad

1168
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: when that becomes common. And you can also, like here

1169
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 1: in your head the voices of your commenters just like

1170
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 1: telling you to do things like when you're out. I mean,

1171
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: there's people doing that already right with with twitch. Why

1172
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: not just make it perpetual for everybody? You think I

1173
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 1: can already here my commenters in my head. Man, think

1174
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: hard at Jack, and he'll do what you tell him.

1175
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: It's true. Alright, Thank you Dad. By H