Speaker 1: The following. He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is Mick Shot
Speaker 1: screaming live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Official
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys a time for a special edition of Mick
Speaker 1: Shots here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com on this player
Speaker 1: day off in training camp from Oxnard, California. Mickey Spagnola, here,
Speaker 1: you're used to here in Bill Jones bring us into
Speaker 1: this show, Everson Walls. But Bill lef Everson still back
Speaker 1: in Dallas, and they just left me by myself. That's rude.
Speaker 1: So we are gonna have a special guest here on
Speaker 1: Mick Shots. Brad Sham Radio Voice. So the Dallas Cowboys starting.
Speaker 1: If I've got my math right, like sixth decade doing
Speaker 1: this stuff? Do you ever count them up? I don't
Speaker 1: count him by decades because that really sounds ponderous. It's
Speaker 1: it's my forty third season on the radio broadcast. So
Speaker 1: all right, eleventies, eighties, nineties, two thousand, two, ten and
Speaker 1: twenty six six decades? Wow? How about that? It sounds
Speaker 1: like more years? Yes? Absolutely, and uh, we decided to
Speaker 1: you guys have certainly heard enough of me talking about
Speaker 1: training camp and uh, since we have Brad here, who
Speaker 1: can be our Cowboy historian. Oh, we're gonna talk Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame, but like you can't. Well, no, you've got
Speaker 1: a few, You've got one more decade than yeah, than
Speaker 1: I do. We'll talk Hall of Fame with the Cowboys
Speaker 1: having three guys going in uh this weekend after they
Speaker 1: play in the Hall of Fame game on Thursday night,
Speaker 1: Jimmy John, Drew Pearson, Cliff Harris, and during Brad's time,
Speaker 1: He's seen all three guys during their careers here. Although
Speaker 1: I think Cliff and Drew beat you to the punch
Speaker 1: they started before me. But I did get to broadcast
Speaker 1: both of their some of both of their games, so
Speaker 1: I did. I did have that provident. Of course, have
Speaker 1: known them right really wealth for decades, and Brad's gonna
Speaker 1: be fortunate enough too. After the Cowboys game Thursday night
Speaker 1: against the Pittsburgh Steelers to remain in Canton, Ohio for
Speaker 1: all the festivities, including the Yellow Jacket presentation, the Saturday
Speaker 1: Sunday inductions of all three guys, and maybe best of all,
Speaker 1: the post induction parties. You know, I know I'll be
Speaker 1: at Drew's okay, and the Cowboys are having a reception
Speaker 1: for all three of them on Saturday afternoon before the induction.
Speaker 1: That'll be special because it'll be all Cowboys. People who
Speaker 1: will be there, people who have been affiliated with all
Speaker 1: three of those guys at various times throughout their ten years.
Speaker 1: And so I was really honored to be invited to that.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, then then Drew Drews had come to
Speaker 1: the party, so you oh, yeah, who am I to say?
Speaker 1: Who am I to be rude and say? No? So
Speaker 1: I yea. I will probably be a little bleary eyed
Speaker 1: Monday morning catching the flight out of Cleveland, and I
Speaker 1: won't care. But the pro he is, he'll be ready
Speaker 1: to go on next week. So the Cowboy party, that'll
Speaker 1: be pretty neat because normally when Cowboys are inducted, So
Speaker 1: there's so many Cowboy players in the Pro Football Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame, a lot of them show up for the induction.
Speaker 1: I mean they show up some of them yearly, since
Speaker 1: they they're all part of it. And that'll be a
Speaker 1: nice walk down memory lane too. You would think that
Speaker 1: there would be a lot of the players who played
Speaker 1: for Jimmy who will be there. I mean, I believe
Speaker 1: Fox is televising the game Thursday night, So Troy Aikman
Speaker 1: will be there surely, since he's Jimmy's presenter, he will
Speaker 1: obviously stay for the ceremony. All of those guys that
Speaker 1: we covered who played for Jimmy will almost certainly be
Speaker 1: there for the ceremony because it's right before the ceremony. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then the guys who played with the Cliff and
Speaker 1: Drew m that you know again, they will be there.
Speaker 1: You would think as many of you know that Roger
Speaker 1: Staubuck will be there, and you know that Rayphield right
Speaker 1: will be there, and some of them are getting up
Speaker 1: a little bit and hard to travel, don't don't travel
Speaker 1: quite as well. I know Bob Lilly used to go
Speaker 1: all the time, and I hope that he goes. And
Speaker 1: some of the other ones, you just don't know because
Speaker 1: they are some of them at an age where Tramp
Speaker 1: he's get a little bit tougher. But but yeah, you
Speaker 1: do hope to see an awful lot of them there. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: So your thoughts on each of the three guys that
Speaker 1: finally well two of them finally get in. I thought
Speaker 1: that Drew and Cliff long overdue. Wasn't sure where everybody
Speaker 1: would think about Jimmy was only five years with the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: but then coached in the letter five years in the
Speaker 1: NFL with Miami, right, and so his was I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure if longevity meant enough, but I think his success
Speaker 1: with the Cowboys and how he turned around the organization
Speaker 1: when it was really floundering, having losing seasons in eighty six,
Speaker 1: eighty seven, eighty eight before he got here in eighty nine,
Speaker 1: and prior to that, they had winning seasons all the
Speaker 1: way from nineteen what sixty six through eighty eight seventy four.
Speaker 1: Might now they had it, they were They didn't make
Speaker 1: that right because that was my first year. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know the way that that I always try to
Speaker 1: relate to that question, Mick is um, can you tell
Speaker 1: the story of the NFL without this person? And if
Speaker 1: the answer is no, whatever your opinion of who they
Speaker 1: were or how they played or coach or whatever, if
Speaker 1: you can't tell the story of the league without him,
Speaker 1: then they have to be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: So to address Jimmy's short tenure, there's no way to
Speaker 1: tell the story of the NFL in the late twentieth
Speaker 1: century without Jimmy Johnson because he did what you said.
Speaker 1: He was at at the forefront of taking that team
Speaker 1: that some of it was on Tom Landry's last team
Speaker 1: and eight when they were three and thirteen, that's still
Speaker 1: the worst Cowboys team I've ever seen, and they and
Speaker 1: they had to turn the roster over completely. Now, the
Speaker 1: interesting thing to me always is that the core of
Speaker 1: the offensive line that won the Super Bowls, Nate Newton,
Speaker 1: Kevin Gogan, Mark two and A. Those guys were all
Speaker 1: starting at eighty eight, right. They were all the ones
Speaker 1: that all the writers said were the worst offensive line
Speaker 1: in the history of football. Same guys were starting in
Speaker 1: ninety one, two three, They you know, they changed out
Speaker 1: the other couple of pieces, but Jimmy essentially orchestrated. And
Speaker 1: it's really the same reason Jerry Jones is in the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. You cannot tell the story of the
Speaker 1: NFL without the prominent place that Jerry Jones holds. And
Speaker 1: so you can't tell the story the NFL in that
Speaker 1: period of time without Jimmy Johnson. I don't think they're Frankly,
Speaker 1: anything that Jimmy did with the Dolphins that got him
Speaker 1: into the Hall of Fame it's all what he did
Speaker 1: with the Cowboys, although the Dolphins can certainly claim him
Speaker 1: if they want, because you're right, he was their head
Speaker 1: coach for a while, but he didn't have anything approaching
Speaker 1: the success that he did in Dallas. But you can't
Speaker 1: tell that story without him. And so two Super Bowls.
Speaker 1: Being the architect of the team that went to a
Speaker 1: championship game and won a third Super Bowl, I think
Speaker 1: that certainly merits his spot. I thought Drew was the
Speaker 1: one whose oversight was most egregious. We get two hung
Speaker 1: up on statistics. This is not a sport to be
Speaker 1: measured just by statistics or analytics. It's got its place.
Speaker 1: But you know, if you just look at the raw
Speaker 1: numbers that you would look at Drew and say he
Speaker 1: didn't do anything, But then put it in context and
Speaker 1: look at how was the game being played when he
Speaker 1: played And until his induction. Until his election, Drew was
Speaker 1: the only member of the Team of the Decade of
Speaker 1: the seventies who was not in the Hall of Fame. Now,
Speaker 1: normally players who are elected to the Team of the
Speaker 1: Decade that they are pretty much shoe ins for the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. And so why Drew was not in
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame until being voted in this year
Speaker 1: still escapes me. And he was an absolutely essential part
Speaker 1: of the offense of the early seventies that Roger Staubach
Speaker 1: captained and on and on oversight excuse me, to me
Speaker 1: was the most egregious. Now, in Cliff's case, it's harder
Speaker 1: because we still try to quantify play by statistics, and
Speaker 1: so how do you quantify a safety. You can't take
Speaker 1: into account the scheme that was being played, you can't
Speaker 1: take into account. So they go by what do they
Speaker 1: go by? Interceptions? Well, that's completely unfair for a safety.
Speaker 1: And I think that safety is one of those positions
Speaker 1: and it is true today Darren Woodson is struggling with
Speaker 1: the effects of it. The John Lynch was Lynch elected?
Speaker 1: Is he going in? Yes? Okay, so I think he.
Speaker 1: I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. But
Speaker 1: how do you determine how do you tell ten years
Speaker 1: down the road, how do you tell John Lynch from
Speaker 1: Steve Atwater which one of them deserves to be in
Speaker 1: More there are some say Troy Polamalo is going in. Well,
Speaker 1: if you watched, if you just watch the games, you
Speaker 1: know that Troy Polamalu deserves to be in. Ed Reid
Speaker 1: went in a year or two ago. Well not last year,
Speaker 1: but okay, well, he deserves to be if you watch
Speaker 1: the games watched those helped them win a championship. Edwyd
Speaker 1: deserves to be in. Well, okay, but now that when
Speaker 1: Cliff Harris played, there's not so many people who watch
Speaker 1: the games who are around doing the voting anymore. And
Speaker 1: you're now, as is the case Withdrew Pearson, you are
Speaker 1: somewhat comparing apples and oranges because of the style that
Speaker 1: was different. So you had to understand the uniqueness of
Speaker 1: the Tom Landry defense, the role that Cliff and his
Speaker 1: presenter Charlie Waters played in orchestrating that defense and flouting
Speaker 1: it from time to time. The best stories are the
Speaker 1: ones that Cliff and Charlie and there there then position
Speaker 1: coach Gene Stallings told about the times that they just
Speaker 1: decided to do something other than what Tom Landry and
Speaker 1: the defensive coordinator Ernie Stautner sent in called their own defenses.
Speaker 1: They did, yeah, they did, and the games and most
Speaker 1: of the time it worked, and sometimes it didn't. The
Speaker 1: Super Bowl right against the Steelers where Charlie Waters ran
Speaker 1: into the umpire and Frank o'harris went running for a touchdown.
Speaker 1: Just hysterical story to hear Cliff and Charlie talk about
Speaker 1: how Terry Bradshaw said he audible to run on that
Speaker 1: play because he saw blitz, and Cliff and Charlie in
Speaker 1: unkind terms would say, we didn't blitz, We weren't blitzing.
Speaker 1: Bradshaw didn't all blitz when he saw it or didn't
Speaker 1: see it. I just ran into the umpire. But they
Speaker 1: would do things regularly to change the defense based on
Speaker 1: what they thought worked. And that was I think for
Speaker 1: a long time. And I was probably guilty of this
Speaker 1: Cliff because he was such a ferocious tackler, and you
Speaker 1: tackled live in practice, and anybody who played with Cliff
Speaker 1: Harris and Randy White paid the price for it, right.
Speaker 1: And so that's how Cliff developed a nickname Captain Crash,
Speaker 1: not only for what he did in games, but for
Speaker 1: how he tackled his teammates in practice. So because he
Speaker 1: had that physicality and that reputation and practice, Cliff became
Speaker 1: known as the physical one, and Charlie Waters became known
Speaker 1: as as the cerebral one, but that that didn't give
Speaker 1: enough credit to the physicality of Charlie's play or the
Speaker 1: intellect that Cliff brought to the game. And so you know,
Speaker 1: Cliff was just instrumental in all of those great Cowboys teams,
Speaker 1: and I'm very happy for him played in all five
Speaker 1: of those Super Bowls during Landry's coaching career. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think the point Brad makes is too many times,
Speaker 1: the only way some voters can quantify voting for a
Speaker 1: guy into the Hall of Fame as they look at
Speaker 1: sticks and as he said, and I've always said that
Speaker 1: our job for the Hall of Fame is to protect
Speaker 1: the stories that must live into posterity after we're gone.
Speaker 1: At some point we won't be here to tell those stories.
Speaker 1: Other people won't be here to tell the stories. But
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame can save the stories of those
Speaker 1: three guys. I'm a big believer in I've been on
Speaker 1: the board of Trustees in the Selection committee of the
Speaker 1: Texas Sports Hall of Fame for a long time. I'm
Speaker 1: a big believer that Halls of Fame exists primarily for
Speaker 1: that reason, so that fifty years from now, when nobody
Speaker 1: who saw these people participate are around to attest to
Speaker 1: what they did, their exploits, their leadership, their talent will
Speaker 1: live on by anybody who can walk into the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame in Canton, Ohio. They have the technology to
Speaker 1: use all kinds of different television calls or radio calls,
Speaker 1: and different kinds of film, and it's a great experience.
Speaker 1: I love going back. You know, we usually only get
Speaker 1: to go back because our job is out here, Thank goodness,
Speaker 1: when they have an opportunity to play in the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame game or and or if someone special to
Speaker 1: the organization is being inducted, and you and I have
Speaker 1: both been fortunate enough to be at a number of those.
Speaker 1: And whenever you go to that and you get a
Speaker 1: chance to walk through the hall and you see the
Speaker 1: exhibits and the bust room is my absolute favorite, and
Speaker 1: just walk through and relive the experience of knowing those
Speaker 1: guys and a lot of them we knew, and not
Speaker 1: just guys who were with the Cowboys, guys who are
Speaker 1: around the league. When you've been around a while, and
Speaker 1: you and I both have, then you get to know
Speaker 1: people and and you get to relive that this flood
Speaker 1: of memories that comes right rushing back by just looking
Speaker 1: at their at their bust. And so it's a great
Speaker 1: experience and for anybody who's a football fan, I urge
Speaker 1: them to take advantage of it if the opportunity, if
Speaker 1: you can, and go, and I'll give you a great
Speaker 1: example of what Brad's talking about about preserving those stories.
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity several years ago to go to
Speaker 1: the Olympic Hall of Fame ooh in Switzerland, ooh, and
Speaker 1: one of the net and this was okay, you win.
Speaker 1: I can't top that. Maybe twenty years ago. This was
Speaker 1: before technology really boomed. Right. Well, one of the neat
Speaker 1: things in that Hall of Fame is with your admission,
Speaker 1: they gave you two tickets somehow and you could go
Speaker 1: down into the film room and call up different events.
Speaker 1: Oh man, all right. So I knew I know the
Speaker 1: story of Bob Hayes right the sixty four Olympics before
Speaker 1: he came to the Cowboys winning the hundred meter dash,
Speaker 1: but I'd never seen it. I was twelve maybe at
Speaker 1: that time. I'm sure I watched it, but didn't remember it.
Speaker 1: So one of my tickets I used was to watch
Speaker 1: Bob Hayes in the hundred and it was astounding how
Speaker 1: he after about sixty yards for sixty meters to the end,
Speaker 1: he kept pulling away. He was leaving everybody behind to win.
Speaker 1: And I'm looking at this going, oh my gosh. Right,
Speaker 1: And the key thing when I was in that Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame, in that film room is you could look
Speaker 1: over other people's shoul and see what they picked, and
Speaker 1: you could watch other events and you picked the event
Speaker 1: and the language right of the broadcast. And so you know,
Speaker 1: I saw some events that it was in a foreign language.
Speaker 1: I had no idea what they're saying, but I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the event. So yeah, that's what you're
Speaker 1: in now. What the Pro Football Hall of Fames doing
Speaker 1: is they've upgated, upgraded their technology to the point, well
Speaker 1: you can watch guys careers, highlights of their careers when
Speaker 1: you go in those rooms, and it's awfully, awfully special,
Speaker 1: you know, and the and the unique thing think about
Speaker 1: the how. And I don't know if this has ever
Speaker 1: happened for the Cowboys, and not just the Cowboys, maybe
Speaker 1: the NFL to have two guys going into the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame the same year that we're not drafted. About
Speaker 1: that they were undrafted rookies who made the team and
Speaker 1: back then think about it, I will if I remember correctly,
Speaker 1: both got drafted when they were seventeen rounds. Still go both.
Speaker 1: We both were signed and they used Not only did
Speaker 1: they have that many players chosen while they were being
Speaker 1: passed over, but in those days the Cowboys was not
Speaker 1: unusual for them to bring a hundred rookies unlimited right.
Speaker 1: You could do whatever you wanted, and they would go
Speaker 1: through a two week camp where they hit before the
Speaker 1: veterans came in, and you had to when when Cliff
Speaker 1: Harris survives that, when Drew Pearson survives all that they
Speaker 1: didn't have four or five guys to beat out, they
Speaker 1: had thirty at their position. Oh, I remember, and I
Speaker 1: can't remember it was Drew telling me the story or Cliff,
Speaker 1: But when they signed their free agent contract of the rookie,
Speaker 1: they were told they were the number one guy at
Speaker 1: that position. And then they show up just like Brad said,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, there's thirty other wide receivers
Speaker 1: or thirty other safeties that they got to beat out
Speaker 1: to make the team. And by the way, Drew it,
Speaker 1: Drew his hysterical tell him the story about how his
Speaker 1: UH bonus. Oh it was. It was one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty dollars. And he told his wife he got seventy five. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because he wanted to use he wanted to use the
Speaker 1: seventy five to go back to the Dorman party with
Speaker 1: his teammates at at at Tulsa. Yeah, and it was
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy five. So they basically paid in
Speaker 1: cash too. And he'll tell the other part of the
Speaker 1: story was he said that when he drove to the
Speaker 1: hotel where the Cowboys scout was after the draft when
Speaker 1: they signed him, he barely had enough gas in his
Speaker 1: car to get to the get to the hotel. So
Speaker 1: he had to spend some of that money on gas
Speaker 1: to make sure he could get back. Uh yeah, and
Speaker 1: he was a newly married guy and uh yeah. And
Speaker 1: but they bird dogged him. You know, he only played
Speaker 1: two years of wide receiver, I believe at Tulsa because
Speaker 1: he got there as a quarterback. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: he was the quarterback in high school they took over.
Speaker 1: Uh it was in South River, New Jersey for Joeimen
Speaker 1: at that time, right, And he would call him Joey too,
Speaker 1: by the way, because that's what he was and they were.
Speaker 1: They were also the double play combination in baseball, Theisemen
Speaker 1: at the second and at short and Pierson at second.
Speaker 1: So uh so there they were, and they were starting
Speaker 1: guards on the basketball team together. And at least Drew
Speaker 1: was at Tulsa. People heard of Tulsa, who had heard
Speaker 1: of Wachita Baptist. There are people coming for Cliff's induction
Speaker 1: from Washata, who, um, we'll never get another opportunity or
Speaker 1: reason to go to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: And uh, it's amazing that, you know. And you look
Speaker 1: at the career that he had and you say, why
Speaker 1: did Arkansas not recruit him? They were a power in
Speaker 1: the Southwest Conference? Right, and they didn't. He played at
Speaker 1: Wachtab Baptist and he was he was a quarterback. Uh
Speaker 1: and and even to how unique his story is when
Speaker 1: he was coming out of high school in desark God
Speaker 1: knows where that is in Arkansas, right, you'll find out now,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, because he'll talk about it. And uh, he
Speaker 1: was a he was a quarterback coming out and when
Speaker 1: he first got there, you know, they finally said, okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna move you to safety. Um and and the
Speaker 1: neat thing about it is. He didn't get a scholarship
Speaker 1: to even watch it tab Baptist until a friend of
Speaker 1: his father, who they played together at Watch It Toad
Speaker 1: they're in their college days, recommended Cliff Harris to the
Speaker 1: head coach, and he got a scholarship and now he's
Speaker 1: going to the Profoil and now he's going in the
Speaker 1: Pro Football Hall of Fame with by the way, he
Speaker 1: helped construct a new stadium for watching tab Baptist that
Speaker 1: has his name on it. And I had the opportunity
Speaker 1: several years ago, probably five six something like that, we
Speaker 1: did a legends story on Cliff for the Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: for TV, and we drove to is It Arcadelphia Arhikadelphi,
Speaker 1: Coladelphia and interviewed Cliff in the new press box at
Speaker 1: the stadium, right, and the folks there provided us pictures
Speaker 1: of Cliff driving the tractor that pulled down the last
Speaker 1: portion of the old stadium. But it was so neat
Speaker 1: for him to go on the field and say, yeah,
Speaker 1: right here, I did this or this happened right and yeah,
Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons small college football at
Speaker 1: that time that he's done the award for Small College
Speaker 1: Player of the Year, which is a really neat award
Speaker 1: because some of those guys that they've selected have actually
Speaker 1: made it into the NFL and it made it and
Speaker 1: done very well. And the fact that they could not
Speaker 1: have an induction last year because of COVID, right, means
Speaker 1: that there are there ten of them going in Saturday
Speaker 1: from the class of twenty or is it more well,
Speaker 1: there was twenty nominees and I think they've picked ten.
Speaker 1: I think that's right. And then and then Drew is
Speaker 1: in the class that will go in Sunday night from
Speaker 1: the class of twenty one. But because there are so many,
Speaker 1: they're being limited to like six minutes, right, And Drew
Speaker 1: got in as the loan nominee by the Senior committee,
Speaker 1: but they were going to make up for the seniors
Speaker 1: that hadn't made it the year before, but then they
Speaker 1: had to push the induction back. So yeah, their stories
Speaker 1: are so unique that they got here. And really, Drew
Speaker 1: will tell you a story. You know, he made the
Speaker 1: team in nineteen seventy three as a rookie because special teams,
Speaker 1: because he was considered second third team wide receiver at
Speaker 1: the time until some guy got hurt and he got
Speaker 1: a chance to start. And even Cliff Atto Stowe is
Speaker 1: the guy. Yes, and Drew Will credits Otto Stowe with
Speaker 1: being the one who taught him how to run routes
Speaker 1: and play pro football right. And then it was Auto
Speaker 1: Stow who got hurt, whose job Drew took and never
Speaker 1: gave it up. And then Cliff his rookie year in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, he had earned a starting job, and then
Speaker 1: he had military service duty. Well, the people today don't
Speaker 1: remember or acknowledge this, but I was in the same
Speaker 1: exact spot in that same year where you, if you
Speaker 1: were fortunate, you got into a National Guard or Army
Speaker 1: reserve unit so that you didn't go immediately overseas to
Speaker 1: combat in Vietnam. And so Cliff was one of a
Speaker 1: number of those players who had to They had to
Speaker 1: go to two weeks bivouac, two weeks training during the summer.
Speaker 1: They had to make a meeting one weekend a month.
Speaker 1: You know, they don't care that the Eagles game is
Speaker 1: coming up. You're you gotta go. And so he'd made
Speaker 1: the team and then he had to and then he
Speaker 1: had military duty for a while. He handed up with
Speaker 1: only five starts in eleven games that year, and he
Speaker 1: will profess that when he had to do his military duty,
Speaker 1: that gave Charlie Waters a chance to get on the field,
Speaker 1: that's his story, and played right. Uh, and then they
Speaker 1: both earned starting jobs after that. But yeah, he you
Speaker 1: know what, nineteen seventy one, I was in the same
Speaker 1: boat as you were because they they got rid of
Speaker 1: all the all the exceptions. College deferment went away, and
Speaker 1: I ended up in ROTC for two years. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a real thing, and you were lucky. You
Speaker 1: were lucky to get an ROTC because they were just
Speaker 1: stands for a Reserve Officer Training Corps, right, And I
Speaker 1: wasn't a very good trainer. I gaining you were training
Speaker 1: to be an officer, and I was the lowest rank possible.
Speaker 1: I was an eleven bravo. I was what they call
Speaker 1: a grunt, an infantry soldier. I think my induction class
Speaker 1: was the last one they were sending people to Vietnam
Speaker 1: before the deal got called off in I want to
Speaker 1: say it was February of nineteen seventy three. I saw
Speaker 1: the thing come over the ticker tape at the newspaper.
Speaker 1: Missed it by that manche got it. But anyway, that's
Speaker 1: how those guys careers began, and Jimmy, you know, Jimmy coached.
Speaker 1: You know. Everybody thinks, well, he was a coach here
Speaker 1: with the Dallas Cowboys those five years. But I went
Speaker 1: back and looked, and he spent twenty I want to
Speaker 1: say it was twenty five years coaching before he got
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, and it was small college high school at
Speaker 1: one point before he sort of broke through. Twenty four years.
Speaker 1: It was, and he coached from nineteen sixty five to
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight before he got the Cowboys job. But
Speaker 1: check your math. Did was he ever anywhere longer than
Speaker 1: five years? No? In his life, he has never held
Speaker 1: a full time job. You can't count his Fox job
Speaker 1: because he does. He flies in one or two days
Speaker 1: a week in the non pandemic. And he's never held
Speaker 1: a job in his life. It's part of his story.
Speaker 1: A full time job longer than five years. None of
Speaker 1: the high school jobs, none of the college jobs, assistants,
Speaker 1: defensive coordinators that I was he at Iowas. I always
Speaker 1: stayed Pittsburghsburgh. He did Oklahoma, Arkansas, and then he got
Speaker 1: the head coaching job at Oklahoma, Oklahoma State five years,
Speaker 1: five years, and then he went to Miami how long
Speaker 1: five years, and then he came to Dallas. How long
Speaker 1: five years? And then he went to the Miami Dolphin.
Speaker 1: It was only four yeah, yeah, and then they got
Speaker 1: blown out in the playoffs. And when he went to Miami,
Speaker 1: he had to deal with something that he didn't have
Speaker 1: to deal with in Dallas, which was free agency, right
Speaker 1: and the beginnings of the salary cap. They didn't have
Speaker 1: any of that, right. But that's just that's not being critical,
Speaker 1: that's just part of Jimmy's And he met Miami Dolphins,
Speaker 1: not the university, that's right. He and and and he
Speaker 1: he um. Jimmy uh grew restless, uh going into the
Speaker 1: five year period wherever he went, and that's why he
Speaker 1: moved all the time. But yeah, he had a kind
Speaker 1: of a not a typical college resume. I mean, look
Speaker 1: at Dave Campo's resume as a matter of fact, a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, there was one job left off because
Speaker 1: he had accepted a job as a one of them
Speaker 1: what do they call the intern, the graduate assistant coaches
Speaker 1: at in college in college at Clemson. And he got there.
Speaker 1: Frank Howard, He's got great Frank Howards, I got great
Speaker 1: Frank Howard stories from my first newspaper job. But yeah,
Speaker 1: Frank Howard was the head coach, and then he was
Speaker 1: there in the off season and before the next semester
Speaker 1: started he got the offer to come back, and I
Speaker 1: can't remember it was to Oklahoma or Arkansas. And he
Speaker 1: came back and and and so he never coached really
Speaker 1: a season at Clemson, but had been there. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he tells some great story Frank Howard's stories, and boy,
Speaker 1: what a Now there is a guy character all lord.
Speaker 1: I remember doing interviews with him in his office when
Speaker 1: he had become the ad and he had a spit
Speaker 1: tune on the side of his desk and that was
Speaker 1: part of his deal when he was doing an interview
Speaker 1: with you. But yeah, so Jimmy, Jimmy paid his dues
Speaker 1: before he got the breakthrough. And I remember when he
Speaker 1: got the job at Oklahoma State. I was doing Big
Speaker 1: eight Skyrider tours and that's when I first met him,
Speaker 1: and I said, you know what, this guy's a little different.
Speaker 1: You know the thing that's interesting to me about Jimmy.
Speaker 1: I mean, all of these, all of the coaches the
Speaker 1: Cowboys have had, have been really good football minds and
Speaker 1: in varying degrees and differing ways, really good instructors. Jimmy,
Speaker 1: of course, had a psychology degree. And I'm not sure
Speaker 1: as much as Bill Parcel's loved to push buttons, and
Speaker 1: as much as Tom Landry would admit that he sent
Speaker 1: messages to his players through the media, I don't think
Speaker 1: that there's ever been anyone who was able to and
Speaker 1: I'll say this word advisedly and mean it in a
Speaker 1: positive way. I don't think there's ever been anyone who
Speaker 1: was able to manipulate his people psychologically like Jimmy Wasn't
Speaker 1: that Jimmy didn't have as much football expertise as anyone else.
Speaker 1: Clearly he did. What a great resume, he had, great
Speaker 1: organizational skills he had, and he's the first one to
Speaker 1: say it, he's a phenomenal life for evaluating talent. But
Speaker 1: Jimmy really knew how to get players. I've never seen
Speaker 1: anyone have the talent that Jimmy did. For saying to
Speaker 1: his players on Monday, this is this is our theme
Speaker 1: this week. He would quickly dissect the game they had
Speaker 1: just played, and he would establish the theme of the week.
Speaker 1: Tuesday was the player's day off, and by the time
Speaker 1: we got a chance to talk to him on Wednesday,
Speaker 1: they were all parroting that line, right, And that's a
Speaker 1: great that's a sign of a really artful coach. And
Speaker 1: if he needed to emphasize that message on Tuesday during
Speaker 1: his press conference weekly press conference, he would emphasize that
Speaker 1: through the media and if he needed those guys to
Speaker 1: know that he was poed going into Wednesday's practice. You
Speaker 1: remember the time he walked out of the press conference.
Speaker 1: He just got mad at a question. He had already
Speaker 1: determined he was mad, right, and that he was going
Speaker 1: to walk out like a basketball coach looking for the
Speaker 1: opportunity to get a technical, right, And he walked out
Speaker 1: of the press conference because he wanted to send a
Speaker 1: message to the guys that hey, we are gonna be
Speaker 1: down to business on the next day. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you how many times he did. At that time, they
Speaker 1: got beat by the Giants really bad up in the Meadowlands,
Speaker 1: and he just totally ignored the game and started complaining
Speaker 1: about the officiating, like since my daddy blew up a football,
Speaker 1: that was a penalty, right, And he would go on
Speaker 1: and on and he would take the attention away from
Speaker 1: how bad they were in nineteen eighty nine. Uh, I
Speaker 1: could tell you in Uh, I believe it was. It
Speaker 1: was either eighty nine or no, it was eighty nine.
Speaker 1: And back then the newspaper would give us a week
Speaker 1: off because Treny camp would go six weeks. Right. So
Speaker 1: my family came down and we were in San Diego
Speaker 1: before a preseason game, right, and get in the elevator
Speaker 1: and the door opens and Jimmy gets in, right. So
Speaker 1: remember we were giving him a hard time that that fresh,
Speaker 1: that rookie year, and this was I saw it had
Speaker 1: been ninety that's right. So anyway, he uh, he looked
Speaker 1: I introduced him, introduced my wife and our daughter, and
Speaker 1: and he looks at our daughters, probably ten eleven, and
Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, he goes, you need to talk to
Speaker 1: your daddy because he's pretty hard on me. But that
Speaker 1: was Jimmy, right, Yeah, So when did she U? Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: she was she was like, uh were you? Yeah? Right,
Speaker 1: but you know that's that was him. And uh but
Speaker 1: you know what, after that initial part, you got to
Speaker 1: understand him, and he was he would be then very
Speaker 1: honest with us, uh even tell us everything. But he
Speaker 1: was honest. It was easy to see the skills that
Speaker 1: Jerry saw when he Jerry knew obviously when he bought
Speaker 1: the team that he was gonna hire Jimmy. And it's
Speaker 1: easy to see the organizational skills, the talent evaluating skills,
Speaker 1: and the and the personnel handling skills that Jimmy had
Speaker 1: that made him successful so quickly. Yeah. Uh. And one
Speaker 1: last story, So before they drafted Troy Aikman, they were
Speaker 1: acting like, well, we don't know if we because Jerry
Speaker 1: was trying to. They were trying to, you know, make
Speaker 1: sure that he didn't get paid too much. Right, we
Speaker 1: got another guy we can take at the first pick.
Speaker 1: You know. It was the Tony manderis the offensive lineman
Speaker 1: that went to Green Bay and flamed out and afterward
Speaker 1: and he was playing he was playing poker, right, poker
Speaker 1: faced the whole thing. So after the draft they took
Speaker 1: Aikman and the actually before and then got him signed
Speaker 1: before the draft, and I think a week or so
Speaker 1: later we were in there. So we got to go
Speaker 1: in his office like Monday, I think the beat writers
Speaker 1: and interview them. When we got in there and he
Speaker 1: got presented by I think it was Edward or a
Speaker 1: Decca Cards like to say, okay, you were playing poker
Speaker 1: with us, right, Well, he proudly kept that Decca cards
Speaker 1: in the front of his desk the whole time he
Speaker 1: was there. Yeah, that was cry to ride. Well, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what, Brad, thanks for Johnny. You bet we
Speaker 1: could have done this for two hours, probably telling stories
Speaker 1: about these guys. But you know what, their stories will
Speaker 1: be told the weekend they get inducted this Saturday and
Speaker 1: Sunday in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, And I
Speaker 1: would think that's got to be must set without doubt.
Speaker 1: And I'm we haven't been told, and I don't think
Speaker 1: the club as of midday on Monday, has even been
Speaker 1: told by the NFL what the game day protocols will be,
Speaker 1: because one of the highlights every year is seeing both
Speaker 1: teams who are playing in the game line up in
Speaker 1: uniform during pregame, line up on the field, and the
Speaker 1: new Hall of Famers come paraded out, usually in Hawaiian shirts,
Speaker 1: to acknowledge both teams, and of course, in the case
Speaker 1: of Jimmy and Drew and Cliff, one of the teams
Speaker 1: will be the Cowboys. Troy Palamalu and I guess Alan
Speaker 1: Fanica and a couple others would be recognized by the state.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that'll happen because of the COVID
Speaker 1: protocols that are still going on the field, who can
Speaker 1: be on the field, who can be in contact with whom,
Speaker 1: and but I do know that at because we've both
Speaker 1: been at enough of them. When you experience an induction ceremony,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of Hall of famers who come
Speaker 1: back and they sit up on the stage. I'm sure
Speaker 1: they'll be distanced. I'm sure they'll be socially distanced, but
Speaker 1: a lot of them wear their gold jackets. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you look up and see decades upon decades upon decades
Speaker 1: of the greatest that Pro football has had to offer.
Speaker 1: Now they're all sitting here and they're paying tribute to
Speaker 1: these people who are going in and to sit there
Speaker 1: in that audience and here Jimmy Johnson, and here Cliff Harris,
Speaker 1: and here Drew Pearson tell their stories and relive their
Speaker 1: careers for those of us who have followed this franchise
Speaker 1: for a while, that'll be a great throat. Well, you
Speaker 1: enjoy that. And I'm just telling everybody else out there,
Speaker 1: if going to the Pro Football Hall of Fame weekend
Speaker 1: induction is a bucket list. It's attainable. You can do it.
Speaker 1: It's not too expensive, you can get there, and there's
Speaker 1: places to stay. You don't have to stay in Canton.
Speaker 1: You can stay in Cleveland, Akron. But it's an untatable deal.
Speaker 1: So I think everybody needs to do that, especially if
Speaker 1: you've never been through the Pro Football Hall of Fame
Speaker 1: in Canton. For Brad Shama, Mickey Spagno, this was Mick
Speaker 1: Shots Live from Oxnard, California. This has been a production
Speaker 1: of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football
Speaker 1: Club