WEBVTT - Mick Shots: Hall Is Calling 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.160 The following. He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:16.960 and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This is Mick Shot 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.160 screaming live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Official 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:28.720 Dallas Cowboys a time for a special edition of Mick 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:33.560 Shots here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com on this player 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:39.120 day off in training camp from Oxnard, California. Mickey Spagnola, here, 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.600 you're used to here in Bill Jones bring us into 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:47.520 this show, Everson Walls. But Bill lef Everson still back 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:51.600 in Dallas, and they just left me by myself. That's rude. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:56.160 So we are gonna have a special guest here on 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:01.920 Mick Shots. Brad Sham Radio Voice. So the Dallas Cowboys starting. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.760 If I've got my math right, like sixth decade doing 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.520 this stuff? Do you ever count them up? I don't 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.440 count him by decades because that really sounds ponderous. It's 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.160 it's my forty third season on the radio broadcast. So 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:21.480 all right, eleventies, eighties, nineties, two thousand, two, ten and 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.880 twenty six six decades? Wow? How about that? It sounds 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:30.520 like more years? Yes? Absolutely, and uh, we decided to 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.559 you guys have certainly heard enough of me talking about 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.520 training camp and uh, since we have Brad here, who 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:42.039 can be our Cowboy historian. Oh, we're gonna talk Hall 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.640 of Fame, but like you can't. Well, no, you've got 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.120 a few, You've got one more decade than yeah, than 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.640 I do. We'll talk Hall of Fame with the Cowboys 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:56.240 having three guys going in uh this weekend after they 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.840 play in the Hall of Fame game on Thursday night, 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:05.760 Jimmy John, Drew Pearson, Cliff Harris, and during Brad's time, 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:10.200 He's seen all three guys during their careers here. Although 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.520 I think Cliff and Drew beat you to the punch 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.120 they started before me. But I did get to broadcast 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.800 both of their some of both of their games, so 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:22.919 I did. I did have that provident. Of course, have 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:27.320 known them right really wealth for decades, and Brad's gonna 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.359 be fortunate enough too. After the Cowboys game Thursday night 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.800 against the Pittsburgh Steelers to remain in Canton, Ohio for 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:43.040 all the festivities, including the Yellow Jacket presentation, the Saturday 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:48.280 Sunday inductions of all three guys, and maybe best of all, 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.760 the post induction parties. You know, I know I'll be 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.720 at Drew's okay, and the Cowboys are having a reception 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:59.880 for all three of them on Saturday afternoon before the induction. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.640 That'll be special because it'll be all Cowboys. People who 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.200 will be there, people who have been affiliated with all 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.600 three of those guys at various times throughout their ten years. 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:13.240 And so I was really honored to be invited to that. 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.680 And then yeah, then then Drew Drews had come to 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.799 the party, so you oh, yeah, who am I to say? 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.080 Who am I to be rude and say? No? So 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.760 I yea. I will probably be a little bleary eyed 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.080 Monday morning catching the flight out of Cleveland, and I 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.200 won't care. But the pro he is, he'll be ready 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.960 to go on next week. So the Cowboy party, that'll 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:41.280 be pretty neat because normally when Cowboys are inducted, So 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.600 there's so many Cowboy players in the Pro Football Hall 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.920 of Fame, a lot of them show up for the induction. 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.920 I mean they show up some of them yearly, since 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.440 they they're all part of it. And that'll be a 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.120 nice walk down memory lane too. You would think that 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:02.000 there would be a lot of the players who played 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:06.440 for Jimmy who will be there. I mean, I believe 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.640 Fox is televising the game Thursday night, So Troy Aikman 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.760 will be there surely, since he's Jimmy's presenter, he will 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:18.599 obviously stay for the ceremony. All of those guys that 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.360 we covered who played for Jimmy will almost certainly be 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.159 there for the ceremony because it's right before the ceremony. Yeah, 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.440 and then the guys who played with the Cliff and 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:35.080 Drew m that you know again, they will be there. 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:36.960 You would think as many of you know that Roger 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.520 Staubuck will be there, and you know that Rayphield right 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.120 will be there, and some of them are getting up 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.880 a little bit and hard to travel, don't don't travel 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.200 quite as well. I know Bob Lilly used to go 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:55.400 all the time, and I hope that he goes. And 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.080 some of the other ones, you just don't know because 0:04:58.120 --> 0:04:59.960 they are some of them at an age where Tramp 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.359 he's get a little bit tougher. But but yeah, you 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.280 do hope to see an awful lot of them there. Absolutely, 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:11.040 So your thoughts on each of the three guys that 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:16.640 finally well two of them finally get in. I thought 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:22.200 that Drew and Cliff long overdue. Wasn't sure where everybody 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.520 would think about Jimmy was only five years with the Cowboys, 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.680 but then coached in the letter five years in the 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:34.200 NFL with Miami, right, and so his was I wasn't 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.480 sure if longevity meant enough, but I think his success 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.360 with the Cowboys and how he turned around the organization 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:46.000 when it was really floundering, having losing seasons in eighty six, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:51.040 eighty seven, eighty eight before he got here in eighty nine, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.560 and prior to that, they had winning seasons all the 0:05:54.560 --> 0:06:01.640 way from nineteen what sixty six through eighty eight seventy four. 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:07.880 Might now they had it, they were They didn't make 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.040 that right because that was my first year. Yeah, okay, yeah, 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.800 you know the way that that I always try to 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:20.359 relate to that question, Mick is um, can you tell 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:26.200 the story of the NFL without this person? And if 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:30.320 the answer is no, whatever your opinion of who they 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.160 were or how they played or coach or whatever, if 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.480 you can't tell the story of the league without him, 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.080 then they have to be in the Hall of Fame. 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:43.280 So to address Jimmy's short tenure, there's no way to 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:47.080 tell the story of the NFL in the late twentieth 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:51.119 century without Jimmy Johnson because he did what you said. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.560 He was at at the forefront of taking that team 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.800 that some of it was on Tom Landry's last team 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.240 and eight when they were three and thirteen, that's still 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:06.320 the worst Cowboys team I've ever seen, and they and 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.320 they had to turn the roster over completely. Now, the 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:14.000 interesting thing to me always is that the core of 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:19.240 the offensive line that won the Super Bowls, Nate Newton, 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.600 Kevin Gogan, Mark two and A. Those guys were all 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:26.400 starting at eighty eight, right. They were all the ones 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.760 that all the writers said were the worst offensive line 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.880 in the history of football. Same guys were starting in 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.840 ninety one, two three, They you know, they changed out 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:43.800 the other couple of pieces, but Jimmy essentially orchestrated. And 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:45.920 it's really the same reason Jerry Jones is in the 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:49.240 Hall of Fame. You cannot tell the story of the 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:53.960 NFL without the prominent place that Jerry Jones holds. And 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.720 so you can't tell the story the NFL in that 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.800 period of time without Jimmy Johnson. I don't think they're Frankly, 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:05.160 anything that Jimmy did with the Dolphins that got him 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:06.800 into the Hall of Fame it's all what he did 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.000 with the Cowboys, although the Dolphins can certainly claim him 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:11.920 if they want, because you're right, he was their head 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.280 coach for a while, but he didn't have anything approaching 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.120 the success that he did in Dallas. But you can't 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:22.400 tell that story without him. And so two Super Bowls. 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.560 Being the architect of the team that went to a 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.040 championship game and won a third Super Bowl, I think 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:34.040 that certainly merits his spot. I thought Drew was the 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:40.840 one whose oversight was most egregious. We get two hung 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.560 up on statistics. This is not a sport to be 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:50.800 measured just by statistics or analytics. It's got its place. 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.439 But you know, if you just look at the raw 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.440 numbers that you would look at Drew and say he 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.720 didn't do anything, But then put it in context and 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.840 look at how was the game being played when he 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:08.640 played And until his induction. Until his election, Drew was 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.160 the only member of the Team of the Decade of 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.840 the seventies who was not in the Hall of Fame. Now, 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:19.559 normally players who are elected to the Team of the 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.880 Decade that they are pretty much shoe ins for the 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:27.040 Hall of Fame. And so why Drew was not in 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:31.000 the Hall of Fame until being voted in this year 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:37.400 still escapes me. And he was an absolutely essential part 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.640 of the offense of the early seventies that Roger Staubach 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:47.680 captained and on and on oversight excuse me, to me 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:53.000 was the most egregious. Now, in Cliff's case, it's harder 0:09:53.960 --> 0:10:00.120 because we still try to quantify play by statistics, and 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:04.839 so how do you quantify a safety. You can't take 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.240 into account the scheme that was being played, you can't 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.440 take into account. So they go by what do they 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:14.600 go by? Interceptions? Well, that's completely unfair for a safety. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:19.080 And I think that safety is one of those positions 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.280 and it is true today Darren Woodson is struggling with 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:29.120 the effects of it. The John Lynch was Lynch elected? 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.000 Is he going in? Yes? Okay, so I think he. 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.960 I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. But 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:39.520 how do you determine how do you tell ten years 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.439 down the road, how do you tell John Lynch from 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:45.160 Steve Atwater which one of them deserves to be in 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.560 More there are some say Troy Polamalo is going in. Well, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.880 if you watched, if you just watch the games, you 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.760 know that Troy Polamalu deserves to be in. Ed Reid 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.240 went in a year or two ago. Well not last year, 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.800 but okay, well, he deserves to be if you watch 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:04.079 the games watched those helped them win a championship. Edwyd 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:08.520 deserves to be in. Well, okay, but now that when 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.480 Cliff Harris played, there's not so many people who watch 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.120 the games who are around doing the voting anymore. And 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.319 you're now, as is the case Withdrew Pearson, you are 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:21.720 somewhat comparing apples and oranges because of the style that 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:28.199 was different. So you had to understand the uniqueness of 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.839 the Tom Landry defense, the role that Cliff and his 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:38.840 presenter Charlie Waters played in orchestrating that defense and flouting 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.199 it from time to time. The best stories are the 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.760 ones that Cliff and Charlie and there there then position 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.920 coach Gene Stallings told about the times that they just 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.480 decided to do something other than what Tom Landry and 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:58.440 the defensive coordinator Ernie Stautner sent in called their own defenses. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.920 They did, yeah, they did, and the games and most 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.240 of the time it worked, and sometimes it didn't. The 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:10.280 Super Bowl right against the Steelers where Charlie Waters ran 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.600 into the umpire and Frank o'harris went running for a touchdown. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.920 Just hysterical story to hear Cliff and Charlie talk about 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.200 how Terry Bradshaw said he audible to run on that 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:25.240 play because he saw blitz, and Cliff and Charlie in 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:31.640 unkind terms would say, we didn't blitz, We weren't blitzing. 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.880 Bradshaw didn't all blitz when he saw it or didn't 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:39.400 see it. I just ran into the umpire. But they 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:44.240 would do things regularly to change the defense based on 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:48.280 what they thought worked. And that was I think for 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.680 a long time. And I was probably guilty of this 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.680 Cliff because he was such a ferocious tackler, and you 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.959 tackled live in practice, and anybody who played with Cliff 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.160 Harris and Randy White paid the price for it, right. 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:05.360 And so that's how Cliff developed a nickname Captain Crash, 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.040 not only for what he did in games, but for 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.840 how he tackled his teammates in practice. So because he 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:17.360 had that physicality and that reputation and practice, Cliff became 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:21.680 known as the physical one, and Charlie Waters became known 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:26.680 as as the cerebral one, but that that didn't give 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:31.320 enough credit to the physicality of Charlie's play or the 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:36.640 intellect that Cliff brought to the game. And so you know, 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.760 Cliff was just instrumental in all of those great Cowboys teams, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.000 and I'm very happy for him played in all five 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:49.560 of those Super Bowls during Landry's coaching career. So yeah, 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.200 and I think the point Brad makes is too many times, 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:57.720 the only way some voters can quantify voting for a 0:13:57.760 --> 0:13:59.440 guy into the Hall of Fame as they look at 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:04.200 sticks and as he said, and I've always said that 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:10.520 our job for the Hall of Fame is to protect 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:15.840 the stories that must live into posterity after we're gone. 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.679 At some point we won't be here to tell those stories. 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.800 Other people won't be here to tell the stories. But 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.640 the Hall of Fame can save the stories of those 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.040 three guys. I'm a big believer in I've been on 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.000 the board of Trustees in the Selection committee of the 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.400 Texas Sports Hall of Fame for a long time. I'm 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.920 a big believer that Halls of Fame exists primarily for 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.880 that reason, so that fifty years from now, when nobody 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:48.640 who saw these people participate are around to attest to 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:55.880 what they did, their exploits, their leadership, their talent will 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.920 live on by anybody who can walk into the Hall 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.920 of Fame in Canton, Ohio. They have the technology to 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.960 use all kinds of different television calls or radio calls, 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:13.680 and different kinds of film, and it's a great experience. 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.360 I love going back. You know, we usually only get 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.440 to go back because our job is out here, Thank goodness, 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:26.560 when they have an opportunity to play in the Hall 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:31.560 of Fame game or and or if someone special to 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:36.320 the organization is being inducted, and you and I have 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.000 both been fortunate enough to be at a number of those. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.920 And whenever you go to that and you get a 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:45.920 chance to walk through the hall and you see the 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.360 exhibits and the bust room is my absolute favorite, and 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:57.160 just walk through and relive the experience of knowing those 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.280 guys and a lot of them we knew, and not 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.720 just guys who were with the Cowboys, guys who are 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.960 around the league. When you've been around a while, and 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:07.720 you and I both have, then you get to know 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:13.520 people and and you get to relive that this flood 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.120 of memories that comes right rushing back by just looking 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.040 at their at their bust. And so it's a great 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.640 experience and for anybody who's a football fan, I urge 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.000 them to take advantage of it if the opportunity, if 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.000 you can, and go, and I'll give you a great 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:32.080 example of what Brad's talking about about preserving those stories. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:39.240 I had the opportunity several years ago to go to 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:44.200 the Olympic Hall of Fame ooh in Switzerland, ooh, and 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.200 one of the net and this was okay, you win. 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.880 I can't top that. Maybe twenty years ago. This was 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.960 before technology really boomed. Right. Well, one of the neat 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.800 things in that Hall of Fame is with your admission, 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.879 they gave you two tickets somehow and you could go 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.040 down into the film room and call up different events. 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:13.399 Oh man, all right. So I knew I know the 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:17.280 story of Bob Hayes right the sixty four Olympics before 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.080 he came to the Cowboys winning the hundred meter dash, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:25.800 but I'd never seen it. I was twelve maybe at 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.399 that time. I'm sure I watched it, but didn't remember it. 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.520 So one of my tickets I used was to watch 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:37.840 Bob Hayes in the hundred and it was astounding how 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:43.720 he after about sixty yards for sixty meters to the end, 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:48.600 he kept pulling away. He was leaving everybody behind to win. 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.240 And I'm looking at this going, oh my gosh. Right, 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.480 And the key thing when I was in that Hall 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.640 of Fame, in that film room is you could look 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.639 over other people's shoul and see what they picked, and 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.800 you could watch other events and you picked the event 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:11.159 and the language right of the broadcast. And so you know, 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.280 I saw some events that it was in a foreign language. 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.560 I had no idea what they're saying, but I remember, 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.720 you know, maybe the event. So yeah, that's what you're 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.920 in now. What the Pro Football Hall of Fames doing 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.560 is they've upgated, upgraded their technology to the point, well 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.399 you can watch guys careers, highlights of their careers when 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.720 you go in those rooms, and it's awfully, awfully special, 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.199 you know, and the and the unique thing think about 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.080 the how. And I don't know if this has ever 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:43.960 happened for the Cowboys, and not just the Cowboys, maybe 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.320 the NFL to have two guys going into the Hall 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.520 of Fame the same year that we're not drafted. About 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:54.239 that they were undrafted rookies who made the team and 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:58.400 back then think about it, I will if I remember correctly, 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:02.120 both got drafted when they were seventeen rounds. Still go both. 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.000 We both were signed and they used Not only did 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.640 they have that many players chosen while they were being 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:15.080 passed over, but in those days the Cowboys was not 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:19.400 unusual for them to bring a hundred rookies unlimited right. 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.800 You could do whatever you wanted, and they would go 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.040 through a two week camp where they hit before the 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:29.000 veterans came in, and you had to when when Cliff 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:33.280 Harris survives that, when Drew Pearson survives all that they 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.280 didn't have four or five guys to beat out, they 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:40.159 had thirty at their position. Oh, I remember, and I 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.919 can't remember it was Drew telling me the story or Cliff, 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.640 But when they signed their free agent contract of the rookie, 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.360 they were told they were the number one guy at 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.920 that position. And then they show up just like Brad said, 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.800 and all of a sudden, there's thirty other wide receivers 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:00.640 or thirty other safeties that they got to beat out 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:02.760 to make the team. And by the way, Drew it, 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.720 Drew his hysterical tell him the story about how his 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.800 UH bonus. Oh it was. It was one hundred and 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:14.159 fifty dollars. And he told his wife he got seventy five. Yeah, 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.119 because he wanted to use he wanted to use the 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:19.760 seventy five to go back to the Dorman party with 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.320 his teammates at at at Tulsa. Yeah, and it was 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.320 one hundred and seventy five. So they basically paid in 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.760 cash too. And he'll tell the other part of the 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.159 story was he said that when he drove to the 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.520 hotel where the Cowboys scout was after the draft when 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.360 they signed him, he barely had enough gas in his 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.000 car to get to the get to the hotel. So 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.439 he had to spend some of that money on gas 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.480 to make sure he could get back. Uh yeah, and 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:53.000 he was a newly married guy and uh yeah. And 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.159 but they bird dogged him. You know, he only played 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:58.720 two years of wide receiver, I believe at Tulsa because 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.480 he got there as a quarterback. As a matter of fact, 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.560 he was the quarterback in high school they took over. 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:10.120 Uh it was in South River, New Jersey for Joeimen 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.240 at that time, right, And he would call him Joey too, 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:15.240 by the way, because that's what he was and they were. 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.360 They were also the double play combination in baseball, Theisemen 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.639 at the second and at short and Pierson at second. 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:25.520 So uh so there they were, and they were starting 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.840 guards on the basketball team together. And at least Drew 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:33.040 was at Tulsa. People heard of Tulsa, who had heard 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:37.840 of Wachita Baptist. There are people coming for Cliff's induction 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:43.720 from Washata, who, um, we'll never get another opportunity or 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:45.639 reason to go to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:49.400 And uh, it's amazing that, you know. And you look 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.440 at the career that he had and you say, why 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:56.399 did Arkansas not recruit him? They were a power in 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:00.479 the Southwest Conference? Right, and they didn't. He played at 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.320 Wachtab Baptist and he was he was a quarterback. Uh 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:09.960 and and even to how unique his story is when 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.760 he was coming out of high school in desark God 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.800 knows where that is in Arkansas, right, you'll find out now, 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.120 oh yeah, because he'll talk about it. And uh, he 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:23.240 was a he was a quarterback coming out and when 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:25.879 he first got there, you know, they finally said, okay, 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.879 we're gonna move you to safety. Um and and the 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:35.240 neat thing about it is. He didn't get a scholarship 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.840 to even watch it tab Baptist until a friend of 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:43.359 his father, who they played together at Watch It Toad 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.719 they're in their college days, recommended Cliff Harris to the 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.439 head coach, and he got a scholarship and now he's 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.080 going to the Profoil and now he's going in the 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:55.840 Pro Football Hall of Fame with by the way, he 0:22:55.840 --> 0:23:00.639 helped construct a new stadium for watching tab Baptist that 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:04.800 has his name on it. And I had the opportunity 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.840 several years ago, probably five six something like that, we 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:16.199 did a legends story on Cliff for the Dallas Cowboys 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:23.400 for TV, and we drove to is It Arcadelphia Arhikadelphi, 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:27.720 Coladelphia and interviewed Cliff in the new press box at 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:32.240 the stadium, right, and the folks there provided us pictures 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:36.639 of Cliff driving the tractor that pulled down the last 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:40.200 portion of the old stadium. But it was so neat 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:42.159 for him to go on the field and say, yeah, 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:47.879 right here, I did this or this happened right and yeah, 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:51.440 And that's one of the reasons small college football at 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:55.160 that time that he's done the award for Small College 0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:58.080 Player of the Year, which is a really neat award 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:00.639 because some of those guys that they've selected have actually 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:02.440 made it into the NFL and it made it and 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:06.720 done very well. And the fact that they could not 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.320 have an induction last year because of COVID, right, means 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:14.840 that there are there ten of them going in Saturday 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.240 from the class of twenty or is it more well, 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:20.600 there was twenty nominees and I think they've picked ten. 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:23.119 I think that's right. And then and then Drew is 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:25.200 in the class that will go in Sunday night from 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:28.000 the class of twenty one. But because there are so many, 0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:31.000 they're being limited to like six minutes, right, And Drew 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.840 got in as the loan nominee by the Senior committee, 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.320 but they were going to make up for the seniors 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:40.280 that hadn't made it the year before, but then they 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:44.240 had to push the induction back. So yeah, their stories 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:48.200 are so unique that they got here. And really, Drew 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:49.879 will tell you a story. You know, he made the 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:55.280 team in nineteen seventy three as a rookie because special teams, 0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:58.840 because he was considered second third team wide receiver at 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:01.320 the time until some guy got hurt and he got 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:05.080 a chance to start. And even Cliff Atto Stowe is 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:11.320 the guy. Yes, and Drew Will credits Otto Stowe with 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:13.320 being the one who taught him how to run routes 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:16.400 and play pro football right. And then it was Auto 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.080 Stow who got hurt, whose job Drew took and never 0:25:19.119 --> 0:25:21.560 gave it up. And then Cliff his rookie year in 0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:26.480 nineteen seventy, he had earned a starting job, and then 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:30.440 he had military service duty. Well, the people today don't 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:33.800 remember or acknowledge this, but I was in the same 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:38.320 exact spot in that same year where you, if you 0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:43.960 were fortunate, you got into a National Guard or Army 0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:48.040 reserve unit so that you didn't go immediately overseas to 0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:51.879 combat in Vietnam. And so Cliff was one of a 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:56.560 number of those players who had to They had to 0:25:56.600 --> 0:26:01.439 go to two weeks bivouac, two weeks training during the summer. 0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:04.080 They had to make a meeting one weekend a month. 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:06.600