WEBVTT - How To Make Your Own Encrypted Comms Network 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:07.440 Who Zone Media, Welcome back to it could happen here, everybody. 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:10.719 I am Robert Evans, and I want to start today 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.760 by kind of proposing a theoretical Right, you wake up 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.599 in the morning and something is awry. You know, maybe 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.520 maybe you hear shots, maybe there's some sort of natural disaster. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.400 You know, maybe it's that that weird Havana syndron death 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.720 sound from the Obama movie that just came out on 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.760 what was it Netflix? But something's fucked up. And you know, 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.280 most people, I think especially most people who listen to 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.839 this podcast, you've probably had conversations with your friends and 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.040 loved ones about what do we do when the quote 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.639 unquote apocalypse or shit hits the fan. You know, you've 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:42.800 got your friends who maybe you know they have a 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.400 lot of stored food, or they have some other skill 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.800 that you think would be useful. And you've got some 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.239 stuff that's that that that you know you know how 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.640 to do. You've got your people right that you would 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.400 want to be with and around if something's really going 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:57.240 wrong out there, because you know how to take care 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:01.000 of each other. But how do you get in contact right, 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.640 assuming you don't all live together, assuming you're not all 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.880 on some sort of commune type situation, as most people aren't. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:09.600 You're probably scattered throughout the city. Maybe you've got some 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:11.640 friends out, you know, in the suburbs, Maybe you've got 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.520 some friends who live out in rural land. Maybe you've 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.600 just got a friend who lives halfway across town. And 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:18.279 you know, that's no problem when you've got a phone 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.479 and you've got you know, Google Maps working. But can 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.679 you get there on your own? Can you get there 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.000 or get into contact with them if the streets are 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.000 all clogged up with cars or whatever, like, how are 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:30.880 you going to reach them? How are you going to 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:33.640 you know, get in touch in order to figure out 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.479 what's going on? And how are you going to stay 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.440 in touch while you handle whatever you need to handle 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:40.520 for whatever is going wrong. Well that's what we're going 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.319 to talk about today, because if the cell networks are down, 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:50.440 if they're being blocked, if you know, the Obama situation happens, 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.160 there are things you can do to allow you and 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:58.320 your friends, comrades, affinity group, whatever you want to call them, 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.240 to stay in touch. And a lot of this revolves 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.720 around a kind of technical usage called a mesh network. 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.000 And I don't know much about that because I am 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.240 a big dummy. But a person who is not a 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.880 dummy is our guest today. They go by Hydroponic Trash 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:15.680 on Twitter and they are going to talk to us 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.440 today about how to set up independent communications networks that 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.480 do not rely on the standard grid. Hello, and welcome 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:22.960 to the show. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:25.680 Hey, what's up? Thanks for having me on. 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.040 Yeah, thank you for coming on. You posted a thread 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:34.239 on Twitter about using You know, it's called like LOWRA 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.600 low frequency radio. Is that what it stands for? 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.560 Yeah, LORA stands technically for long range, but yeah, it's 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:48.640 a long range frequency radio that broadcasts a pretty specific 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.040 wavelength that can travel really far throughout the air. So 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:56.840 it's perfect for communications long distance. 0:02:57.600 --> 0:02:59.960 And it's if you've got devices set up on this 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.880 they each basically act as nodes, right, So the more 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.560 you have the kind of wider signal distribution you get. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.520 If I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, Like if you've 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.360 got someone three miles away and then another person five 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.400 miles to the west of them, then you kind of 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.119 are able to cover that whole distance. 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.799 Yeah, exactly. So think of it like a relay system, right, Yah, 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.800 one person has a message they send it off to 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.000 another person. That person passes it on to the next node, 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.280 and so mesh networks are really resilient when it comes 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.000 to emergencies, when it comes to protests, when it comes 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:39.960 to occupation and conflict zones, because if one node goes down, 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.240 as long as there's other ones that can pick up 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.760 that message and keep repeating it and broadcasting it out. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:50.120 So it's a really interesting piece of technology that is 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:54.680 similar to traditional radios, but also different because all the 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.520 communications can be encrypted end to end, which is a 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.680 huge delay of security. 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.520 Because you can the thing most people's default if you're 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.040 thinking like, well, how do you get some like walkie talkies? 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:06.280 Right? 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.080 You know, you get some and those can you know, 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.600 those have their place and stuff, but they are also 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.160 not always the most secure options. So being able to 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.000 encrypt shit is a huge deal, especially when you're talking 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.920 about like outside of a shit hits the fan kind 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.800 of deal, which is less likely than you know, some 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.360 sort of civil unrest protest use case. You know, being 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:31.040 able to actually encrypt is huge. Yeah, So I'm a dummy. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:35.960 I don't understand much about setting up my own technology independently, 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.039 but I find this interesting. I see the use case. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.760 I decide I want to you know, set this up 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.800 and start, you know, building an emergency mesh network with 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.600 a half dozen of my friends. Where do I start? 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.640 So, first thing is you'll need some hardware that supports LORA. 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.320 There are a ton of different things out there, ranging 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.560 from maybe twenty twenty five bucks going all the way 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.600 up to thousands of dollars, So there's a big range, 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:11.200 and that range really depends on the enclosure, what's included 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.520 in it, the broadcast strength, all that good stuff. So 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.400 obviously the cheaper you go, the weaker the broadcast strength is. 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.240 There might be development boards that are just literally like 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:25.520 the PCB, like actual hardware with no case around it. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:26.000 Yeah. 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.400 Yeah, and there's there's some that you can just pick 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.800 up and immediately use, and so it kind of depends. 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.720 But that's the first step is finding hardware that can 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.520 handle LORA, and then you know obviously getting it and 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:44.200 then flashing it with the correct software. And that sounds 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:48.359 really complicated, but for our purposes of sending text messages 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.920 without any kind of cellular, LTE or Wi Fi connection, 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.720 you can use super cheap devices and flashing them is 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.159 you click a couple buttons and you're done. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.840 So, first off, do you have any kind of specific 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.000 you know, I know you're working on a text piece 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:07.800 that you can put up to explain all this, and 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.640 I I will certainly share that as soon as it 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:12.720 gets up. But do you have any specific like if 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:14.680 somebody's saying, hey, I've got you know, a budget of 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.880 fifty bucks, you know, or so, is there a complete 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.200 device you would recommend if they're or somewhere in that 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.039 median range, like kind of on the lower end, a 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.200 thing that someone doesn't know how to take, you know, 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.080 a raw board and craft that into a usable device 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.920 that you would recommend they purchase. Is to start us 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:32.320 off here. 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.520 Yeah, definitely. So I kind of have two different options. 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.279 One is a standalone option that can kind of work 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.599 by itself, completely independent of anything else, and another one 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.680 uses your phone, So you'll flash it to the board 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.159 and then connective or bluetooth to your phone just like 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:51.120 a pair of headphones. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:52.960 Awsot, Oh that's so easy. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.360 Yeah, And so you kind of have options if you 0:06:56.400 --> 0:07:00.640 want a standalone version. There's a company called Lilygo that 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.200 makes a thing called a te deck and it's pretty small. 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.359 It looks like a BlackBerry Clone. Yeah, it has a 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.080 little mouse thing. Yeah. 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:11.880 It looks like a BlackBerry kind of crossed with a 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:16.320 game camera. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's like thicker 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.120 in the back, it's got that big antenna. Yeah yeah, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:19.840 yeah yeah. 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.720 And so the Lego t Deck is what this is called. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.400 It's a BlackBerry Clone. Basically, it has lowra built in, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:31.280 it has Bluetooth, and so all you have to do 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.440 is get powered to this thing, flash it with mesh 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.840 tastic and there you go. Now you have a Now 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.800 you can type out messages, you can send direct messages, 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.840 you can send encrypted messages, all with one device. That's 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:45.880 thirty five dollars. 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:48.840 Oh man, that's great. And this is something you can 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:54.520 get like Ali Express was your recommendation, right, yeah, Ali Express. 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.679 Probably be the best if you're trying to order a lot. 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.600 If you want one right now, you can order them 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.200 on places like Amazon, but it's going to cost you 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:03.720 and also fuck Amazon. 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:09.560 So yeah, I mean you are slightly doomed to support 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:14.600 one horrible billionaire or another like Kelly expresses. But no, 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:16.000 I get it. 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.240 Yeah, And I mean one of the upsides to like 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:23.640 an all in one thing like this is like I 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:25.920 three d printed this case, but you don't have to 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.960 print a case. You can literally just set this into 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.199 a shoe box or something and protect it. So there's 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.760 a lot of options on the cases that you want 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:36.960 to use. You could buy pre made cases, or you 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.800 could just, I don't know, just put something to protect 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.640 the board back here and then screw on an antenna. 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:44.040 You're good. 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:45.720 Yeah, I mean I've seen some shit people do with 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:59.920 duct tape. You can figure it out. So my question is, 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:01.839 or my other question is, you were talking about a 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:06.200 way that you can you can basically do the calming 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.719 like communications through yoursel phone, right, you can hook that 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.880 into the next mesh network. Is that something you're able 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.000 to kind of go over at least in brief or 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.120 provide people with, you know, here's where they can go 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.319 to read about how to do that. 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:23.200 Yeah. So the same company, Liligo, makes a smaller little device. 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.880 It's really small, maybe about inch yeah. Yeah, and it 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.319 has a screen on it so when you power it 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.640 on you can actually see the messages come through on 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:33.360 the screen on the board itself. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:34.000 Yeah. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.079 And it connects through Bluetooth to your phone and you 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.760 use the mesh Tastic app to basically text like you 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.160 normally would on a phone. Yeah, it looks just like 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:48.440 signal pretty much if you're used to that that UI 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.400 but uh yeah it's super small. Yeah, it's perfect. 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:53.880 And so you're just also using that that mesh Tastic 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.760 app to flash the software on the devices once you 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.679 get them. Am I am I understanding that? Right? Yeah? 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.520 I'm just asking. I'm re asking everything because I want 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.760 to try to make this accessible for both me when 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:05.320 I do it and for our listeners. 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:12.120 Yeah, for sure. So mesh Tastic is the software that's 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:16.079 running on these devices, and what Meshastic does is a 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.920 device that's also running Meshtastic can communicate with each other 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:25.240 over LORA long distance. And so you need the hardware 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.240 that supports the LORAW and a client which is mehtastic 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.640 that will allow you to send tax messages and stuff 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.920 like that and do the encryption handle all that stuff. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.960 To actually flash these it's super simple. Mesh Tastic has 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.360 a link that you can go to. You plug in 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.720 your device, depending on the version, you hold down a button, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:51.440 you press flash, wait like ten seconds, and boom, now 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:55.080 you have a working mesh Tastic node, probably in underneath 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:56.920 ten minutes after you get this out of the box. 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.360 You could be up and running in about ten to 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:00.000 fifteen minutes. 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.760 That's great and so all right, if I if I've 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:05.800 got like say, I'm the guy in my group of 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.280 friends who has more disposable cash, and I want to 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.120 get this going. So I pick up five of those 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.600 lily like boxes three D print a case for them 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.319 or just wrap them in something, you know, and I 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.079 keep one. I hand them out to my friends. I 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:25.400 get the software on all of them. How how do 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:27.760 I get them all kind of in comms together? 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:28.240 Right? Like? 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.520 Or if you know, my friends buy them independently and 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:32.839 we each flash them and get them up and running. 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.040 How do we all kind of connect? Like? What is 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:35.679 that process? 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.599 Like? Yeah? So the good thing with mesh tastic is 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:44.439 it automatically handles adding new nodes to the network, and 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.880 so as soon as a new device that runs mess 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:53.000 tastic comes online, it'll broadcast and tell the entire mesh 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.640 Tastic network nearby, Hey, a new device got added. You 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.679 can send messages to me. So mesh Tastic has two 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.679 different things that it can do. It can do broadcasts, 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.280 where you're sending out a message to pretty much everyone 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:11.559 who has a device that's reachable, and that's good for say, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.920 for instance, you know your friend comes online, you can't 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.080 talk to them directly. You could send them broadcast out 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.920 and say hey Joe, what device are you and they 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.560 could reply and broadcast everybody okay, I'm on this device. 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.800 You can also do direct messages, so once you know 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.360 that person's device name, you can actually send messages directly 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.880 to them. Now keep in mind it's not encrypted because 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.680 technically it's broadcasting throughout each node. It's just like filtering 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:45.840 out the messages for whoever it was addressed for. But yeah, 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.199 at that point then you could start dming people. And 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.400 if you want to get started with encryption, it's also 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.000 really easy. You can use the mesh Tastic client, so 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.400 you can install it on your computer, plug it into 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:01.840 your computer, and just sett in a encryption key, a passcode, 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.280 whatever you want to do to secure your communications, and 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:11.040 then once that person has that passcode key, whatever, those 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:16.079 two devices can connect and talk completely encrypted, either one 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.199 on one or if multiple people. Say, for instance, you 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.079 have an affinity group of like ten people, you all 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.439 say okay, hey, in an in an emergency, let's meet 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.839 up at this place and physically share a key or 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:33.000 passcode or whatever. Once everybody has that, you can also 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:37.360 do encrypted broadcasts to multiple people as well, so getting 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.680 up and running is super quick. When it comes to flashing, 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.960 actually communicating with people makes sense, especially on your phone. 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.760 It feels just like a normal texting situation. 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:49.240 So that's great. 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.120 Yeah, it's really it's really amazing. I mean, this is 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.280 a really interesting technology because, like I've been interested in 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.480 radio for a while. But the I guess downside to 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:05.320 that is a you can't encrypt any kind of radio 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:10.920 communications in the US b a license. Yeah, unless if 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:12.920 you're the cops of the military or the FEDS, you 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.920 cannot encrypt shit, and if you do, it's it's kind 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.880 of an issue. But yeah, you can't encrypt messages on 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:26.960 regular radios. Another thing is like usability. If you hand 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.720 somebody like a bow thaying handheld radio, most people are 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.720 not going to know what to do with it at all. 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:35.800 They're gonna be like, what the fuck is this? But 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.240 if I hand you a BlackBerry clon and say just type, 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.760 and if you want to send a DM to somebody 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.240 to find them and just send it like it's it's 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.360 really easy for your average person to pick it up 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.560 and use it, which is honestly the best kind of situation, 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.160 especially in an emergency where you can't really rely on 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:58.040 highly technical people all the time, because what if everybody 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.680 in your affinity group isn't super technical, you know. So 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.600 it's a it's a good common device that anybody can 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.920 pick up and start sending messages, even encrypted messages, pretty easily. 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.320 So I think that covers the technical basics of what 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.000 you need to do. I did want to ask real 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.240 quick before we get onto some of the more ideological 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.680 you know stuff here conversations about like why you specifically 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.600 gotten into this and why like this is important for people. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.000 I wanted to ask just really quickly in terms of 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.080 that three D printed case. Did you just go search 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.320 in some repository and find when someone had made or 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.040 is there one that you've put up somewhere that you 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:38.040 might recommend to people? 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:43.400 Yeah? Actually it was recently uploaded to thing thing everse, 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.800 which is a website that has free three D print 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.800 plans and files, And so I just searched up lilygo 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.680 t deck on thing everse and the full case, I 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.680 mean the back Yeah, I loves great has Yeah, it 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.560 looks like an actual device. 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.560 Yeah, and I'm assuming that one's just pla Yeah, just 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.880 type of classic, super basic Yeah, yeah, looks great. 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.040 Yeah, and this only took all these pieces snapped together, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:18.560 so no glue required, and all these pieces took roughly 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.520 about eight hours to print at one hundred percent density. 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:27.160 So you have a pretty solid case with plans that 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.560 are available online and in eight hours you can have 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:36.400 a literal professional looking device that's protected and able to go, 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.080 you know, in adverse situations. 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.680 Yeah. So now I want to get into some of 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.360 the more kind of like just talking about First off, 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:46.920 what got you into this, Like when did you decide 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.280 this is a skill I want to develop and a 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:50.320 thing I want to figure out? 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.160 Yeah. I mean, so for my day job, I'm an 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.360 offensive security consultant, which is just a fancy way of 0:16:58.400 --> 0:16:58.760 saying that. 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.440 It's a cool job, pat living. Yeah, you're doing like 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:06.240 Red Team stuff. It sounds like, yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.760 So I've always been interested in technology and specifically like 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.200 how do you make technology work in the benefit of 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.119 people as opposed to working the benefit for profits or 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:22.040 corporate interest or state interests. So I think technology is 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:27.280 a really good tool when used correctly and there's a 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.400 lot of moral and social and political implications when when 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.120 it comes to technology and actually making it. But that's 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.680 kind of how I got into it, was kind of 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:42.200 combining my interest in computers and hacking combined with kind 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.840 of the social and political activism I've been a part of. 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.760 So that was kind of my entry point into it. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.960 Yeah, that makes that makes sense because I do think, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.560 like when I think about what inspired me about the 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.200 early Internet, about like file sharing back in the late nineties, 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.560 about you know, when Wikipedia first started up and stuff 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:04.760 all that stuff like that. We talk a lot about 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.720 like the days when we thought the Internet was going 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.800 to be an unqualified boon for human liberty, the ability 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:17.000 to create effectively, like a smaller and more limited private 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:21.520 Internet for like you and your people to communicate safely 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:26.240 through definitely like scratches that itch. And when we say 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.120 like more limited Internet, you're not through one of these 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:30.920 networks we're talking about. You're not going to be like 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.040 sending YouTube videos and shit, right, But that's not what 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:34.440 it's for. 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:34.879 You know. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.400 It's got its own use and it's very much kind 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.440 of what the Internet was about at the beginning, which 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:45.840 is just allowing people to connect that otherwise wouldn't be 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.240 able to or wouldn't be able to as securely. 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:55.919 Yeah, exactly, And actually the same protocol LORA, you actually 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.800 kind of can run a basic Internet protocol that it's 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:03.840 called Laura WAN Laura Wide Access Networking, and you can 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.600 run some pretty basic programs on it outside of just 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.200 text based stuff. So it's a really interesting kind of 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.800 rabbit hole to go down into. I will say, if 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:19.800 you start looking at Laura and mestastic stuff, you will 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.640 eventually start to run into like a right leaning, yes, 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.480 sometimes straight out fascist people because there's a crossover between 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.560 you know, the uh, the gun community and kind of 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.560 off grid prepper doomsday prepper people, you know, so you'll 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:36.119 run into that. 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.440 Anyone who doesn't like like the government is going to 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.399 have a vested interest in being able to communicate in 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.399 a way that can't be easily intercepted, right like that, 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.560 And that doesn't always mean your buddies. I think most 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:51.919 people are pretty familiar with that. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:59.120 Exactly. Yea, but yeah, it's it's it's really useful. There 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.840 there are other ways to say, for instance, make your 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.600 own kind of like micro internet. I read an article 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.560 that talked about making kind of like a DIY internet 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:16.240 in quotes, where you can basically take your home router 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:21.640 and connect say, for instance, your neighbors to the same network, 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.000 and then if you have a server of your own 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.280 that has books, that has maps, that has music and information, 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.639 you can easily share that with other people. And so 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.720 there are other ways to kind of get your own 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:42.399 off grid quote unquote internet together, but just outside of text. 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:46.720 But yeah, it's definitely possible. It's just needs a little 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:52.280 bit more technical know how, but hopefully soon it'll be 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.000 a little simpler to where you can just download something, 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.560 get you a book server up and running, and then 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.480 have anybody come along and download books about you know, 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:06.320 permaculture or about you know, emergency medical aid or fixing 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:07.560 infrastructure and stuff like that. 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.280 So yeah, that's huge being able to actually like transmit 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:23.960 text and stuff through that too. So yeah, you said 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:28.000 when we were chatting online kind of before we hooked 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.080 this up, you said something along the lines of you 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:31.840 had a bit of a tangent you wanted to go on. 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.520 So I've asked kind of my questions here if there 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:37.679 is anything else you wanted to get out or express 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.879 or say, just kind of on the subject of people 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:46.880 taking more autonomy for themselves in their communications technology. Well, 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:47.640 now's the time. 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:54.639 Yeah, sounds good. I mean so earlier you asked, like, 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.840 what kind of got me into this? Yeah, But there's 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.200 another situation that happened because I live in Texas, Oh 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.040 and a couple Yeah, so you know where I'm going 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.400 with this. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. A couple of years ago, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.280 there was a really bad winter storm. And for most 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.160 people listening, you might be in the northeast, like, who cares? 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:14.960 Yeah, I was there for that storm. 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.240 Oh it was it was crazy. It was crazy. Yeah. 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:23.719 And so for people outside of Texas, you might be saying, Okay, well, 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.560