1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff mom never told you? 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: From House top Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristin Christine. I have 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: a couple of questions for you. Okay, do you wear 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: makeup and fashionable clothes? I wear makeup. The fashionability I 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: think I made up board of my clothes might be 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: called into question, but I try. Well. How about walking 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: around outside unaccompanied and talking freely to men um? Well, 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: yes I do that, but not necessarily like strangers on 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,959 Speaker 1: the street. But yeah I do. Yeah, gentlemen, gentlemen who 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: are known to you, gentlemen known to me unaccompanied? Yes, 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: I do that, speak to them. And do you ever 14 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: happen to drink beer or wear perfume? Yes? I prefer 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: to only drink beer while I am wearing perfume. Well, ding, Ding, 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: In the mid to late nineteenth century, you would be 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: called a prostitute. How dare you accuse me? Hey, it's 18 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: not me. It's not coming from me, right, it's coming 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: from Victorian morals, right. Yeah. The Victorian era not exactly 20 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: a boom time for women and their independence and going 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: around were in perfume right. Um. Generally the mores of 22 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: the period meant that they were restricted to their homes 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,279 Speaker 1: unless they were among the few who were actually hired 24 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: a stenographers, seamstresses, or store clerks. So you had you 25 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: had a couple of jobs open to you as a 26 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: woman back then, literally a couple, or you could break 27 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: out and either open. You could be an entrepreneur in 28 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: one certain unsavory field prostitution brothels. Yeah, and today on 29 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: stuff Mom never told you, we are going to focus 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 1: in on madam's in the West because we learned that 31 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: the opening of the West, especially with things like the 32 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: California gold Rush going on, created these boom towns for brothels, 33 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: and the women who ran them were some of the 34 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: savvayest and wealthiest entrepreneurs of the day. And while we 35 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: could go we I mean, Caroline, we could we could 36 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: have like years worth of podcast based just on a 37 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: on all the different aspects of prostitution. But today we're 38 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: going to narrowly focus in on these early madam's. Yeah, 39 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: they just like the men went out to strike it 40 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: rich with gold and mining and you know, cattle ranching. 41 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: The women followed and they struck it rich do in 42 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: their own way. Yeah, And to give you a little 43 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: bit of historical context, the California Gold Rush happened from 44 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: eighteen forty five to eighteen forty eight. And Ruth Rosen, 45 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: who wrote The Lost Sisterhood pros Stitution in America from 46 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred to nineteen eighteen, pinpoints the peak of women's 47 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: engagement and prostitution between eighteen fifty and nineteen hundred. And 48 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: that's when, um, around when we have these I mean, 49 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: just incredibly successful women who were in such a tiny, 50 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,399 Speaker 1: tiny minority in the West, right, they really took advantage 51 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: of supply and demand. Um, because, according to Thaddeus Russell, 52 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: who wrote a renegade History of the United States, California 53 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: in particular, the non Native American population out there in 54 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty was male. Women typically in this time made 55 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: up only about let's see, one out of every fifty 56 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: people who showed up in the West. Yeah, And there 57 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: there was a study and that came out actually in 58 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties that characterized women who who opened up 59 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: brothels in the West as professional women intent on economic success. 60 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: And I mean, if you think about how much money 61 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: they were making compared to things like being a stenographer 62 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: or a seamstress, which would pay about six bucks a week. 63 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: That was totally right. Because let's see the average prostitute. 64 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: We're not even talking about the madam. The average prostitute 65 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: in Helena, Montana, Helena, Montana made about two hundred and 66 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: thirty dollars a month. I'm compared that to the six 67 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: dollars a week you could make as a stenographer or 68 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: if you are a bank clerk, you'd only pull on 69 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: about So why go legit? Yeah, when you can prostitute. Well, 70 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: they didn't have many options to true. Yeah. Um. Going 71 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: back to the law sisterhood prostitution in America, Ruth Rosen 72 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: says that prostitution probably reaches its greatest heights during the 73 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: second wave of industrial realization, when heavy industry excludes women 74 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: from participation in the labor force, and at the same time, 75 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: under Victorian moral codes, women, even if they might have 76 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: been part of a wealthier household, they didn't have any 77 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: control over their own finances. Yeah. So out there in 78 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: the wild West there were there were a couple more 79 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: options to make money and be independent. Um. People like 80 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: Diamond Jesse Hayman. We're pretty successful. She opened a three 81 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: story brothel in San Francisco and was able to provide 82 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: her workers with wardrobes worth six thousand dollars. They had 83 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: twelve pairs of shoes, evening gowns, all sorts of lazy 84 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: negligent that she could afford to give them. And but 85 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: she didn't just stop there. She actually earned enough to 86 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: buy several parcels of land throughout the city. Yeah. We 87 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: see this a lot actually, um with the more successful 88 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: madam's in the West, where they would amass these fortunes 89 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: and they would reinvest them back into the land. For instance, 90 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: we have Lou Graham, who became one of the largest 91 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: landholders in the Pacific Northwest by investing the stock market 92 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: and real estate. And this former madam even contributed to 93 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: Seattle's public school system. And similarly, we have Jenny Rogers, 94 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: the Queen of the Colorado Underworld, who owned several brothels 95 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: in Denver and also brought up large parcels of land 96 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: and bought shares of an irrigation and reservoir project that 97 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: paid off big time. Yeah. Another queen of the Underworld 98 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: is Anna Wilson, who was the queen of the Omaha Underworld, 99 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: and she ended up when she died, she bequeathed her 100 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: giant mansion to the city and it became Omaha's first 101 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: emergency hospital. What do you know? And I think that 102 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: one quote that really gets at the heart of this 103 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: entrepreneurial spirit, as questionable as it might seem, since these 104 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: were Madam's comes from Mattie Silks, who was a prostitute 105 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: her who worked her way up uh to owning three brothels, 106 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: and she said, I went into the sporting life for 107 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: business reasons and for no other. It was a way 108 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: for a woman in those days to make money, and 109 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: I made it. I considered myself then and I do 110 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: now a businesswoman. Yeah, and that was the goal. I mean, 111 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: these women who came a lot of them came from 112 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: impoverished backgrounds, and so when they saw an opportunity, they 113 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: took it. A lot of them weren't getting into this 114 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: business because they liked what they did so much. It 115 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: was more about, well, I can make so much more 116 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: money to support my family, right, And you'll see that 117 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: same argument come up in favor of sex workers these days, 118 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: who were able to have that kind of agency. Again, 119 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: that's a whole another debate, um, that we can get 120 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: into in another podcast. But I think it's really interesting 121 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: to see how this kind of similar to that Cowgirl 122 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: podcast that we did a few weeks ago about how 123 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: sort of the gender roles in the wild West or 124 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: far less rigid than they were out east. So were 125 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: the laws, Well, yes, this is true, this is very true. Um. 126 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: But let's talk a little bit about a couple of 127 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: of black madam's who also were renegades in their own right, right, Yeah, 128 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: they were able to use their money that they earned 129 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: to gain freedom. Mary Ellen Mammy Pleasant was born a 130 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: slave and she eventually operated several boarding houses in San Francisco, 131 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: but she used her position to actually sue to desegregate 132 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: the city street cars. So some people call her the 133 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: mother of civil rights down in California. Yeah. And then 134 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: we also have Sarah Babe Connors, who ran two brothels 135 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: in St. Louis. So obviously very successful and she was 136 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: easily recognizable because of the diamonds she embedded in her teeth. 137 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: I like it, um, But as you can imagine, brothel 138 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: owners did not always get along, especially if you were 139 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: say at a clerk at petite and fiery madam from 140 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: Georgia and Alice Abbott, who was this huge, six ft 141 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: tall woman who opened up They both opened up brothels 142 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: across the street from each other in El Paso. Intentions 143 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: ran pretty high, they did. Uh. They they started off 144 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: just as rivals and became enemies. And although the stories 145 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: kind of sketchy is how they became enemies, it certainly 146 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: ended up that way. Because one of Alice's girls went 147 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: across the street to try to work for Eda. Alice 148 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: didn't like it. She she followed in a huff, was 149 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: banging on at his door. And remember Alice, Alice is 150 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: six ft tall, pounds yeah, two hundred pounds on woman, 151 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: and so she's banging on that door. Give me my 152 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: girl back, Edda, a little little petite Southern Eda opens 153 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: the door and gets punched right in the face, right 154 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,599 Speaker 1: in the kisser. Um. Yeah, you would think that it 155 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: would be over right right then in the big woman 156 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: punching a little woman, it's done, give me my girl back, 157 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: let's go. No, it was not done. Did not give up. No, 158 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: Alice got her punch in Etta whit and grabbed her 159 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: gun because a lot of madam owners unlike. This was 160 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: another kind of stereotype. They were breaking a lot of 161 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: these madam's. You know, in the wild West, they could 162 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: wield some guns. Yeah. Well you have to be able 163 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: to protect yourself, not only as somebody out in the 164 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: Wild West by yourself, but you know, in your line 165 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: of work, you need to be able to protect your Yeah. Yeah, 166 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: you can imagine they running a brothel could probably get 167 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: a little dicey, sometimes a little bit shady. Um. Yeah, 168 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: she didn't just she just shoot her any old place 169 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: where she shoot her at a shot Alice in the crotch. Yes, 170 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: and this is I think the best part of the story. 171 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: This became known as and we're not lying to you. 172 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: This became known as the Pubic Arch shooting, named for 173 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: the region in which she was shot. Yes, but the 174 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: El Paso Newspaper, in a copy edit, wrote it up 175 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: as the public Arch Shooting. And as a former copy editor, 176 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: I can tell you that this is the reverse of 177 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: a copy editor's worst nightmare. You're constantly doing a search 178 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: and replace for pubic unfortunately, because you've got to worry 179 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: about public meetings, public schools, public this and that, And 180 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: it's very easy to type pubic instead of public. So 181 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: I love that this is a reverse copy editing air. Um. 182 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: But I think the two queens of the brothels at 183 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: the time would be the Everly Sisters in Chicago. I mean, 184 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: these ladies knew how to run a brothel. Yeah, they 185 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: were sort of the queens of Chicago and they were 186 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: determined to rise to that rank. To Um. Depending on 187 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: when you knew them, they might have been the Lester 188 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: Sisters or the Sims Sisters. But when they moved to 189 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: Chicago from Omaha, they decided to change their name to 190 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: Everly based on their grandmother's the way their grandmother would 191 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: sign letters, she would sign them Everly yours, So they 192 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: just took the name. They claimed to be about ten 193 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: years younger than they really were. Um. They said they 194 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: were I think like twenty three, early twenties, mid twenties, 195 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: and they were actually in their early to mid thirties. Um. Yeah. 196 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: And if this might sound familiar if you've ever read 197 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: Sin in the Second City by Karen Abbott, which is 198 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: all about their empire that they built. I mean, just 199 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: may I may I read you the menu from a 200 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: typical meal plea ever house ice clam juice, caviar, pheasants, duck, geese, artichokes, lobster, 201 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: fried oysters, deviled crabs, pecans, and let's not forget champagne 202 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: in a shoe, which is what Prince Henry of Prussia 203 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: drank when he visited, probably because he would not He 204 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: was only allowed to either order champagne or wine because 205 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: Everly Sisters said, no liquor, no liquetor in there. And 206 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: their opulent brothel that made them a fortune, Yeah, they well, 207 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: it helped that they were in a city full of millionaires. 208 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,239 Speaker 1: They kind of how they got their start in Chicago. 209 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: They they bought a former brothel, a huge mansion in Chicago, 210 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: in the Levee District, which is the vice den of Chicago. Um, yeah, 211 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 1: they bought a former brothel, took a look at all 212 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: the the current residents, pretty haggard, well hardened, fired all 213 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: of them, gutted the place, hired new girls, gave them 214 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: a great education. They you know, the Everly Sisters taught 215 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: their girls to read poetry, keep up with the news 216 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: of the day, basically anything to keep them on par 217 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: with their rich customers. Right, And I thought, I like 218 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: to how they encouraged their UM employees to try to 219 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: to sort of delay sex as much as possible and 220 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: get the men to, you know, engage them in conversation 221 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: so that they would be ordering drinks and food. And 222 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: they were like, let's I mean, let's let's have them 223 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: pay for I can't remember what what There was some 224 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: great quote from from one of the sisters, but but 225 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: she was essentially like, you know, we have plenty to 226 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: offer here besides just sex. And there was actually a 227 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: waiting list to become what they called every butterflies, who 228 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: made about a hundred dollars a week UM. And again 229 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: compare that to the six dollar week stenographer fee, that's 230 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: not too bad. And in addition, they offered their employees 231 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: free healthcare, they had a doctor who would come and 232 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: regularly check up on them, clothing allowances, things like that. 233 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: But the Everly Club in Chicago did come to an end. 234 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: It was shut down in nineteen eleven, which is not 235 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: all that surprising because a year before, in nineteen ten, 236 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: the US government passed the Man Act, or the White 237 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: Slave Traffic Act as it's also known, which basically UM 238 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: shut down a lot of brothels and the newfound FBI 239 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: shifted a lot of its attention to these prostitution rings 240 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: to shut down these these all these vice operations. Right 241 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: there was a big panic over white slavery that girls 242 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: were being you know, girls fresh off the farm, they 243 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: just stepped off the train, and they were being snatched 244 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: by these shady characters and you know, taken and forcibly 245 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: raped and sold into basically flavors. And many of them 246 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: and many of them were I mean, we've we've been 247 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: going on and on about these you know, early entrepreneurs 248 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: because there were so few opportunities for women to break 249 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: into professional fields and earn their own fortunes at the time. 250 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: It's worth noting that the reason why these women that 251 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: we've been talking about were so successful because they were 252 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: using good business practices in terms of treating their employees 253 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: well and providing meals, providing healthcare, the same types of 254 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: benefits that we look for in our jobs, and making 255 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: sure that their employees were taking arab basically, and that 256 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: their customers were not going to suffer as a result 257 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: of anything they did. Whereas if you were a prostitute 258 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: on the street, I mean, you would turn a trick 259 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: for a quarter, you know, far, a far cry from 260 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: the hundred dollars a week that you might get if 261 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: you were working at the Everley Club. So it might 262 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: seem questionable to praise these women who were running brothels, because, 263 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: like you said earlier, Caroline, being a prostitute probably was 264 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: not a lot of these girls, you know, number one 265 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: ambition in life. They probably didn't dream as a child 266 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: of working in a bordello. But going back to Ruth Rosen, 267 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: who wrote The Last Sisterhood, it's important to note that 268 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: once clerical and the service sector opened up greater employment 269 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: opportunities for women, and more women started going to college, 270 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: educational opportunities opened up, then you see the demise of prostitution. Right. 271 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: As long as there are other opportunities where you can 272 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: legitimately money and not catch a disease, I think women 273 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: would take those better opportunities. However, if you had a 274 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: family to support, maybe you weren't from a great background, 275 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: maybe you'd been a prostitute for years, and something like 276 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: the Everly Club came along, you know, it's only natural 277 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: that these women would want to get on the waiting 278 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: list to work there. Yeah, and if you are also 279 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean this was in Chicago. This could be your 280 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: way out of this tiny town to the big city. 281 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: Um And I think that this, this whole conversation about 282 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: these these early madam's and the early brothels in the 283 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: United States is you know, the themes are the same 284 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: if you talk about sex work today in terms of 285 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,479 Speaker 1: sort of the double edged sort of like, well, you know, 286 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: it can be an empowering way to be a female entrepreneur, 287 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: but at the same time, is sex work, you know, 288 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: a healthy thing? Right? How many actually how many women 289 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: actually choose to participate or our cond into it or 290 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: feel that they have no other choice? Right? And I 291 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: think that it's it's a totally a mixed bag, which 292 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: is why we could go on and on and on 293 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: about this. But pretty fascinating because those women who opened 294 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,479 Speaker 1: up that we were talking about, who opened up those 295 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: brothels in the West, were some of the wealthiest women 296 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: in the US of the time. They had some of 297 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: the biggest parcels of land, they had some of the 298 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: biggest bank accounts, They were able to put diamonds in 299 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: their teeth, and they reinvested it into public works projects. 300 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: So I don't know, I mean, I think that um, 301 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said for for these 302 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: early entrepreneurs United States. But I'd like to hear from 303 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: what other people think about about these early Madams and 304 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: Madams today, because we haven't even talked about Heidi Flies 305 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: and the Bunny Ranch. The Bunny Ranch, I mean, yeah, 306 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: there's not We could do a whole series, yes, so 307 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: we could. I mean, let us know if you want 308 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: a whole series, we can keep going. Flies has a 309 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: thing with parrots now on some some reality show. She's 310 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: raising parrots, just kind of like Mike Tyson and the pigeons, 311 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: like the parents and the parents who knew. Um. Well, 312 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: if you would like to send us your thoughts on 313 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: Madam's prostitution, sex work, anything under the sun. Mom stuff 314 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: at how stuffworks dot com is the email address, and 315 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:16,719 Speaker 1: let's read a couple of letters right now. Okay. Kristin 316 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: Terry writes us in response to the Rebounding podcast we did. 317 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: She said, I know several widowers that rebound really quickly 318 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: after their wives died. My own dad remarried two and 319 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: a half years after my mom died. My parents were 320 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: happily married for forty one years when she died. I 321 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: made my dad promise that he would not date anyone 322 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: for a year so that he could be clearheaded when 323 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: he started dating. I also made him promise that he 324 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't make any big decisions about his life. In that year. 325 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 1: He married a nice woman, so I'm not worried about him. 326 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: But I've seen this go bad several times. It seems 327 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: that men who have been married a long time need 328 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: to be married or with someone. But the widows I 329 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: know are not so quick to jump back in. My 330 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: grandma said that she would never want to be another 331 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: man's slave again. Thanks terr Oh, spicy Grandma. I like it. Well. 332 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: I've got an email here from Ellen. I hope I'm 333 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: saying that right, ellen Um, and we we don't give 334 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: requests like this very often, so I had to take 335 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: her up on it. She writes, I have met men 336 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: that is like no other man. His name is Christopher, 337 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: and she is asking for our help to read this 338 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: letter to wish this amazing man a happy birthday. On 339 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: the third of September, you will be twenty five years old, 340 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: and I want to spoil him. He loves to listen 341 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: to your podcast, and you've kept him company when I've 342 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: been bedridden and he's had to do the housework all 343 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: by himself, head to the grocery store in the middle 344 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: of the night or when he's now heading to work. 345 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: It would make him so happy if you could mention 346 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: him and give him a big hurrah. Well, Christopher, you 347 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: sound like a class a dude, and I think this 348 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: should be before September. So happy pre birthday, Happy Birthday, 349 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: and Fay Birthday and her rah. Way to be an 350 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: awesome dude, and keep on keeping on with your awesomeness. Yeah, 351 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: that's so again. If you have any, uh, any requests 352 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: or thoughts you'd like to send our way. Our email 353 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,479 Speaker 1: addresses mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You 354 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: can also head over to Facebook and leave a comment 355 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: there and like us, and you can follow us on 356 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: Twitter as well at Mom's Stuff Podcasts. And finally, during 357 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: the week, you can read our blog It's stuff Mom 358 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: Never Told You at how stuff works dot com. Be 359 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from 360 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore 361 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The How 362 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. Download it today 363 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: on iTunes. Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand 364 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: twelve cameras. It's Reddy, Are you