Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kim Azzarelli. Welcome to this brand new season
Speaker 1: of Seneca's Conversations. In this season, we're launching a special
Speaker 1: five part series on young woman's financial wellness in partnership
Speaker 1: with Secret Deodorant. It's called Secret Money Tips. We recently
Speaker 1: hosted the Young Women's Financial Wellness Form at the New
Speaker 1: York Stock Exchange in partnership with Secret, renowned financial experts
Speaker 1: gave young women their best advice about budgeting, saving, and
Speaker 1: investing financial empowerment one oh one. Now we're bringing that
Speaker 1: advice to every young woman through this series. Today, we're
Speaker 1: talking to Carmen Perez, CEO and founder of Much, a
Speaker 1: budgeting app. Carmen is also the creator of Make Real Sense,
Speaker 1: a personal finance blog dedicated to helping people achieve financial independence. Carmen,
Speaker 1: it's great to have you on the show. Welcome, I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Well,
Speaker 1: we had such a wonderful time hearing your advice at
Speaker 1: the New York Stock Exchange and we really learned so much. So, Carmen,
Speaker 1: tell us briefly about your financial journey. What was your
Speaker 1: experience like growing up as it related to money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So this is where I think, like the term financial
Speaker 1: trauma comes into play, and just understanding what your relationship
Speaker 1: with money is, and that usually happens early on. Right,
Speaker 1: I was raising a single parent household, and while my
Speaker 1: relationship or my mom made it seem as if, you know,
Speaker 1: everything was fairly consistent and steady, I think by seeing her,
Speaker 1: you know, work so much and so hard and always
Speaker 1: figuring out, you know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: how to make something work. I think I carried that
Speaker 1: into my relationship with money later on in my adult life.
Speaker 1: So you know, getting up to living paycheck to paycheck,
Speaker 1: just maxing out every sense of my paycheck. It was
Speaker 1: my norm and that was something I feel I took
Speaker 1: early on as it relates to my relationship with money,
Speaker 1: and just ran with it into my adulthood. So it's like,
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily making the best financial decisions, but I could
Speaker 1: always figure it out and make it work somehow. What
Speaker 1: impact did that happen? I mean, how did that help
Speaker 1: or hurt you in the early days? Yeah, so that
Speaker 1: was it kept me in a constant cycle of stress.
Speaker 1: So it was a very big cycle of just rense
Speaker 1: and repeat in terms of making terrible financial decisions when
Speaker 1: I had every opportunity not to do that. But again,
Speaker 1: in the early stages, how your relationship is with money,
Speaker 1: it's usually formed by apparent figure. And again that's what
Speaker 1: I took with me, and it really ended up hurting
Speaker 1: me for a little while. You know, now I have
Speaker 1: a great success story, right, but in the early days,
Speaker 1: it kept me in a constant level of low lying stress,
Speaker 1: constantly worrying about, you know, how to make it work.
Speaker 1: And at one point, I understand you were in fifty
Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars worth of debt. What led to that
Speaker 1: and how did you turn it around? Because you turned
Speaker 1: it around I did. Yeah, So the fifty seven thousand
Speaker 1: dollars of debt, I think for me personally, I think
Speaker 1: this relates for a lot of people too. Is you
Speaker 1: have to hit like some type of you don't necessarily
Speaker 1: have to, but a majority of folks are catalized by
Speaker 1: some rock bottom. And my moment was getting sued for
Speaker 1: my student loan and that was a thirty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: loan within that fifty seven thousand dollars of debt. And
Speaker 1: you know, the journey really consisted of credit card debt,
Speaker 1: so maxing out all of my credit cards, taking on
Speaker 1: student loans, but really the catalyst was getting sued. So
Speaker 1: I had all these terrible things happened up until that point.
Speaker 1: I had a job offer resended that had terrible credit.
Speaker 1: I was being eighteen percent interest on my car loan
Speaker 1: that was also included in the fifty seven thousand dollars
Speaker 1: of debt. My taking a step back happened when I
Speaker 1: got sued and I had no money saved, and I
Speaker 1: instantly was, you know, catapulted into this world of having
Speaker 1: to navigate my finances very quickly within a short amount
Speaker 1: of time. And it was just like a light switch.
Speaker 1: I woke up to the idea of like having to
Speaker 1: not have to live under distress anymore. You know, I
Speaker 1: was privileged enough to not have to do this, but
Speaker 1: I was putting myself through the stress subconscious again my
Speaker 1: relationship with money, and I had to start navigating that
Speaker 1: and feeling that back. And it was layers and pall
Speaker 1: layers of doing different things, but eventually paid off all
Speaker 1: of that debt. Wow, congratulations, Thank you. So if there
Speaker 1: was one thing that you would take away from that
Speaker 1: experience that you could share with those listening. I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of people you know have debt for different reasons.
Speaker 1: But I think you feel that some of that debt
Speaker 1: was good debt in the sense that it was, you know,
Speaker 1: financing your education. Obviously you had to pay your medical bills.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just investing in yourself. But maybe some
Speaker 1: of the habits that you had around the other debt
Speaker 1: was sort of compounding things. What's the difference. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I think debt and I feel like maybe even early on,
Speaker 1: I had a different relationship with debt. I felt like
Speaker 1: it was normalized. Everyone has it, My mom hasn't, my
Speaker 1: friends has it, everyone around me has it. I'm going
Speaker 1: to be in debt forever. Right That was kind of
Speaker 1: my attitude towards debt, and right now my relationship over
Speaker 1: time has changed with debt. The way I view it is,
Speaker 1: you know, debt is inherently a financial tool. It's not
Speaker 1: good or bad, but how you leverage it or misuse
Speaker 1: it can get really tricky very quickly. Right And I
Speaker 1: look at, you know, my debt in the past, just
Speaker 1: having you know, some awareness around it, as my student
Speaker 1: loans really did help me get through college. Any other way,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been able to, you know, finance my education.
Speaker 1: I had to take out the student loans. I've bought
Speaker 1: a home and since sold it. But that was a
Speaker 1: good way for me to you know, invest in an
Speaker 1: asset that could eventually you know, give me some cash
Speaker 1: down the road, right, And we made some profit off
Speaker 1: of that that sale. But on the flip side of that, right,
Speaker 1: like my credit cards, maxing those out and perhaps having
Speaker 1: a store credit card just wasn't I wasn't using it
Speaker 1: in the right way or leveraging it to my advantage.
Speaker 1: So I'll give you an example. I had an express
Speaker 1: credit card, and I would just go in and just
Speaker 1: max it out on you know, just normal everyday clothes,
Speaker 1: whereas I could have used that store card to actually
Speaker 1: build my credit in a productive way get the things
Speaker 1: that I actually needed, which were internship clothes that I
Speaker 1: knew that I needed, right, instead of maxing it out
Speaker 1: on stuff that I just didn't necessarily need or was
Speaker 1: just seeking the instant gratification around. And I personally don't think,
Speaker 1: you know, behind clothes and jewelry and all that stuff,
Speaker 1: is it bad. That's that's not it. Um. I think
Speaker 1: it's just important to find some balance in that relationship
Speaker 1: with debt, right right, And I love when you talk
Speaker 1: about kind of investing in yourself in that way and
Speaker 1: investing in your education or investing in the wardrobe you
Speaker 1: need for your interviews, but just being a little bit
Speaker 1: more cautious about, you know, kind of impulse purchases and
Speaker 1: not just thinking that you can max out on everything
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah. I mean, one really interesting concept
Speaker 1: that you have is, uh, you know, is it ever
Speaker 1: too early to start thinking about these things. I mean,
Speaker 1: some people listening, you know, they're just getting started. They
Speaker 1: may not have an income yet, they could be young students,
Speaker 1: or they just are not seeing a way out, or
Speaker 1: they're seeing, you know, that what they're doing is really
Speaker 1: small potatoes. What do you say to that? Oh? I
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah, so the small potatoes thing, right. I thought, again,
Speaker 1: my early thoughts throughout debt were I'm always going to
Speaker 1: have this, I'm never gonna be able to pay this off.
Speaker 1: But you know, similar to how we kicked off is
Speaker 1: how you manage a little, is how you manage a lot.
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, my salary at the time when
Speaker 1: I just graduated college wasn't going to afford me enough
Speaker 1: to be able to, you know, pay down my debt,
Speaker 1: or wasn't going to give me the ability to start
Speaker 1: investing in the stock market. So my thought around that
Speaker 1: and my mentality was, oh, i'll invest win or I'll
Speaker 1: pay down my debt win. And I think everyone's always
Speaker 1: chasing that kind of next milestone when it whether it
Speaker 1: becomes their career or when it comes to their money.
Speaker 1: And if you aren't managing the money that you currently
Speaker 1: have and you're making in a productive way, those skills
Speaker 1: aren't just going to instantly turn on overnight when you
Speaker 1: start making you know, big bucks, right, whatever you deem
Speaker 1: that to be. It's really taking a step back understanding
Speaker 1: your current relationship with debt. So maybe you're a newbie,
Speaker 1: or you know you've made some mistakes in your past,
Speaker 1: like I did in terms of running and maxing out
Speaker 1: my credit card. But you take your step back examine
Speaker 1: your relationship to really understand why am I doing the
Speaker 1: things that I'm doing, or perhaps am I scared to
Speaker 1: take on debt if I'm a newbie, or I see
Speaker 1: my parents having gone into a bunch of credit card debts,
Speaker 1: so I don't want to be like them. So again
Speaker 1: it's it's the mindset of just because you have a little,
Speaker 1: it's not small potatoes. Whether it be your income or
Speaker 1: the amount of debt that you have. The habits that
Speaker 1: you build now are extremely important for when you get
Speaker 1: bigger debts in terms of let's say you're taking out
Speaker 1: a loan to start a business or a car loan.
Speaker 1: The habits that you're building with the small things now
Speaker 1: will carry over into the big things later on. Well,
Speaker 1: and you are such an incredible example. So you turned
Speaker 1: it around. You say that your early habits created bad credit,
Speaker 1: but you turned it around. Now, tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about what you're doing now and some of the
Speaker 1: milestones since that low point. Yeah, so there's been so
Speaker 1: incredible milestones after paying off my debt, and you know, again,
Speaker 1: some of that included some really productive things, like my
Speaker 1: degree and all of that. So I obviously graduated, I
Speaker 1: went to work on Wall Street for a bit, and
Speaker 1: that gave me the career that gave me enough money
Speaker 1: to do the things that I needed to do so
Speaker 1: in order to pay down my debt. But after that
Speaker 1: I found, you know that I wasn't as passionate about
Speaker 1: traditional finance as I originally thought. I was. So once
Speaker 1: I paid off all my debt, the closer I got to,
Speaker 1: you know, making that last payment on my debt, the
Speaker 1: more my vision started to open and broaden. The door
Speaker 1: started opening like wide for me. So I went on
Speaker 1: to save a bunch of money to be able to
Speaker 1: quit my job in finance. And then when I quit
Speaker 1: my job, my intention was to learn how to code.
Speaker 1: So I transition careers in my early thirties to from
Speaker 1: out of a traditional finance to software engineering. So it's
Speaker 1: possible for anyone to be able to do it. But
Speaker 1: more importan, after changing careers into a very lucrative field
Speaker 1: where I could potentially continue to increase my income and
Speaker 1: have my own skill set now in terms of software engineering,
Speaker 1: I started my own company called Much and Much is
Speaker 1: a social money and management platform that for people that
Speaker 1: struggle with money and accountability and then also access to
Speaker 1: an awesome you know on platform money community. I love that, yeah,
Speaker 1: that you can connect with other users and just feel
Speaker 1: less alone. Well, I have to say, Carmen, your story
Speaker 1: is incredibly inspiring and I learned a lot talking to
Speaker 1: you and meeting you again. I love what you say
Speaker 1: that how you manage a little is how you manage
Speaker 1: a lot. And I think everybody can take something from
Speaker 1: this conversation and just re examine their own relationship with
Speaker 1: money and their own relationship with debt. And we're super
Speaker 1: grateful for everything you're doing for us. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for having me on. I really really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And you know again, I love to leave everyone with
Speaker 1: this quote, You're always one decision away from a totally
Speaker 1: different life, and it's very true in my own and
Speaker 1: whether that looks like relationship, or job or your money,
Speaker 1: you're always one decision away from a totally different life.
Speaker 1: It's great to have you on the show. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Carmen. Let me recap some of what we
Speaker 1: learned today. First, the money habits that young women are
Speaker 1: building right now matter and they'll continue to matter for
Speaker 1: years to come. Even if your current income is small,
Speaker 1: what you do with it is important because, as Carmon says,
Speaker 1: how you manage a little is how you manage a lot. Second,
Speaker 1: think about debt as a tool. If used properly, it
Speaker 1: can be leveraged to improve your future. Debt allowed Carmen
Speaker 1: to go to school, and that opened up doors to
Speaker 1: more opportunities than she could have ever imagined. But you
Speaker 1: also have to be careful not to abuse debt, as
Speaker 1: Carmen says, and make sure that you're using debt in
Speaker 1: the right way. Finally, it's never too late to re
Speaker 1: examine your relationship with money and perhaps move in a
Speaker 1: new direction, one that might be different than your parents
Speaker 1: or your friends. As Carmen says, you're always just one
Speaker 1: choice away from a totally different life. Join me next
Speaker 1: week for more money tips for young women on our
Speaker 1: next episode of Seneca's Conversations, Secret Money Tips in partnership
Speaker 1: with Secret Deodorant. Thank you for listening, and please share
Speaker 1: today's podcast episode with the others in your life. This
Speaker 1: is Kim Azzarelli, co author of Fast Forward and co
Speaker 1: founder of Seneca Women. Seneca's Conversations is a production of
Speaker 1: the Seneca Women podcast network and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.