Speaker 1: You can make something beautiful. Your surroundings should be beautiful,
Speaker 1: Your children's surroundings should be beautiful, and it's possible for everybody. Hi, everybody,
Speaker 1: this is Martha Stewart and you're listening to my podcast
Speaker 1: with Friends, and today that is really what we're doing.
Speaker 1: We are talking to two old friends, colleagues, and terribly
Speaker 1: important people in my life and in the life of
Speaker 1: Martha Stewart Living Magazine. In the winter of the first
Speaker 1: issue of Martha Stewart Living Magazine hit the news fans,
Speaker 1: we chose to focus on eight key content areas cooking, entertaining, gardening, decorating,
Speaker 1: celebrating holidays, housekeeping, crafting, and collecting. As the years came
Speaker 1: and went, the mission stayed the same, to teach and
Speaker 1: to inspire, to educate and suspire living as we know
Speaker 1: it around here put an emphasis on beautiful visuals carefully
Speaker 1: developed by our editors and art directors and stylists. And
Speaker 1: today with me sitting right in the same room, and
Speaker 1: I was so excited as old and Motley, our first
Speaker 1: editor in chief of Martha Stewart Living Magazine and our
Speaker 1: first art director, Gail Howe, so welcome both of you.
Speaker 1: It is so nice to be sitting here reminiscing, and
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna cry during this interview. I'm almost crying
Speaker 1: right there you are, and we are emotional because what
Speaker 1: we created was something I think very very special that
Speaker 1: hit accord and hit a nerve in the American woman's life.
Speaker 1: And uh and I really I really feel that way
Speaker 1: because the response has been over the years and now
Speaker 1: the magazine is thirty one years old and we started it,
Speaker 1: as I said, have the first issue right here with me,
Speaker 1: and uh, there I am smiling sitting at Turkey Hill
Speaker 1: Road on my porch with a basket of this and
Speaker 1: that it was a Christmas issue and for me easy
Speaker 1: to do right. Christmas was just part of our DNA,
Speaker 1: even at that time, because I had been catering and
Speaker 1: cooking for other people and entertaining and what I thought
Speaker 1: was missing in the on the news stand at that
Speaker 1: time was a magazine really devoted to the homemaker. And
Speaker 1: I had to find like minded people. It was very important.
Speaker 1: And after we found the publisher, which was also quite
Speaker 1: a shore, we'll talk about that. Let me introduce you,
Speaker 1: Gail Howie. How are you. I'm very well and I'm
Speaker 1: very delighted to be here because I love talking about
Speaker 1: the olden days, the wonderful, wonderful, magical, creative olden days,
Speaker 1: and they were certainly some of the most creative days
Speaker 1: I've ever spent in my life. Well, I'm so happy
Speaker 1: to hear you say that, because I feel the same way.
Speaker 1: And it is getting weepy. I promised not to get weepy.
Speaker 1: This is much sterner. And she's she's really, she really
Speaker 1: ran the show in the in the in the early
Speaker 1: days of the tas absolute nonsense. No, you did. You
Speaker 1: ran the show. I was off, you know, gallivanting, doing
Speaker 1: all the photo shoots and and all, and you stayed
Speaker 1: home and really took care of the text. No, no errors,
Speaker 1: no errors. In those early issues, I don't remember correction
Speaker 1: for I hardly remember any corrections in that magazine. Well,
Speaker 1: it was so important to get it right because we
Speaker 1: thought that if people if there was a mistake and
Speaker 1: a recipe, it would be such a waste of somebody's
Speaker 1: time and money and that was just not fair, exactly,
Speaker 1: and and they would then lose faith in your expertness.
Speaker 1: And uh, and I always, I've always said since day one,
Speaker 1: that that authenticity and expertness is really important if you're
Speaker 1: going to be the teacher. And this magazine was posed
Speaker 1: as the teacher for the American homemaker, and it was
Speaker 1: for women basically, but a lot of men picked it up.
Speaker 1: And now with the with a two male household, more
Speaker 1: men are are are reading these magazines than ever before.
Speaker 1: Um and so it's really a male female audience. And
Speaker 1: just it was an incredible effort. And do you remember
Speaker 1: our first office is let's describe, Oh God, Time Inc.
Speaker 1: Put us. It was at the forty six floor floor.
Speaker 1: It was the floor right above the heating and air
Speaker 1: conditioning floor of the Time Warner building on sixth Avenue,
Speaker 1: and the floor when the heat was on was boiling hot.
Speaker 1: It was so homember. So my feet were swollen. I
Speaker 1: had to take my shoes off because the floor was
Speaker 1: so high, and the carpets were I think what they
Speaker 1: gave us the office is the dirtiest carpets in the
Speaker 1: entire tobacco smelling, an old, smokey office that nobody wanted
Speaker 1: any longer. And we got it. But it was ours,
Speaker 1: and it was Time Inc. Which was a male, male orient,
Speaker 1: male oriented, but they were very good at what they did.
Speaker 1: They just were not quite sure what to do with us.
Speaker 1: Every office when we moved in had a dictionary and
Speaker 1: a tessaurus, but no phone. Do you know what they
Speaker 1: left us alone? They did They didn't know what they didn't.
Speaker 1: They would come around periodically and I would say, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, it's already gone to the printer, or I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry it's already been shot. We can't shoot it again,
Speaker 1: or whatever, it's too late. Well, do you remember the
Speaker 1: story when I was looking for the money, When I
Speaker 1: was looking for the partner UM, I first went to
Speaker 1: sign new House and he gave me the money to
Speaker 1: create the prototype. And I did that with roche rochow You,
Speaker 1: Dell and Doug person. Remember Rochelle was the art director
Speaker 1: of Self magazine at the time, and and Churchen and
Speaker 1: Doug had his own company as a design and they
Speaker 1: helped me create a prototype UM which was interesting. It
Speaker 1: was a July issue. It had a story about straw
Speaker 1: straw hats, yes, and about a bicycle decorated. That was
Speaker 1: the issue. And then so I said, well, what are
Speaker 1: you gonna call this magazine? And I thought, oh, you
Speaker 1: know Martha Stewart something or other. He said, oh, no,
Speaker 1: it can't be that it has to be condist something
Speaker 1: or other because it's my magazine. So he sent us
Speaker 1: on our merry way, and then I went, did I
Speaker 1: ever tell you that? You know? I was working for
Speaker 1: Alex Lieberman at the time, because I was the art
Speaker 1: director at House and Garden right, and I report to
Speaker 1: Alex the creative director, the creative director of all Conde Nasket,
Speaker 1: who was one of the meanest people I've ever met
Speaker 1: in my life. But anyway, he was drakonian um. But
Speaker 1: he would come down and he knew that you and
Speaker 1: I were friends and that we knew each other and
Speaker 1: had met at Clarkson Potter Publishers. And he said, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this magazine. We can't have
Speaker 1: a magazine with an editor's name on it. All of
Speaker 1: the other editors at Conde Nast would want their name.
Speaker 1: Our magazines are kind to be Diane of Briel and Vogue,
Speaker 1: and it would have to be. But I think that
Speaker 1: he thought you were too strong for him. He was
Speaker 1: a maniacal control freak. Particularly he didn't like that's very flattering.
Speaker 1: Thank you, You're quite welcome. I would love to be
Speaker 1: thought for Oxy because he was scary. He was scary scary.
Speaker 1: So we took the prototype then too, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: I took it to Rupert Murdoch and I first met
Speaker 1: with Rupert's team. They said, oh you didn't that was fabulous.
Speaker 1: I got. I got to go and meet Rupert. He
Speaker 1: was still married to his first wife. He was extremely attractive.
Speaker 1: Second wife. Second which one was his second wife? Okay,
Speaker 1: you keep track of that, well I can't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't keep tracking things like that. But he was
Speaker 1: still married to that beautiful Anna, the mother of his
Speaker 1: first children. Right, and there's an older sister. Oh, there's
Speaker 1: an older sister. They may have the Succession family. Okay, alright,
Speaker 1: so then then there is another another family before Anna,
Speaker 1: and before Wendy, of course, I mean before Wendy Wendy Dong. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that goes on and on. But I go and meet
Speaker 1: with the team. The team was extremely interested in the magazine.
Speaker 1: But then incomes Rupert, and I make my prison to
Speaker 1: and Rupert when he came in the room, silence, just
Speaker 1: like in the Succession silence, and they all stood up
Speaker 1: and it sort of bowed to him. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is even his general counsel and I couldn't believe what's
Speaker 1: going on here. I mean, this guy is magnetic, you know,
Speaker 1: and he's strong, but and he is a billionaire in
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But but he's Rupert and uh, he's
Speaker 1: a magazine guy. This is before he became Fox News
Speaker 1: and everything else, and um. And they looked at the magazine,
Speaker 1: the prototype, and they said, you know, this is really
Speaker 1: this is really inviting, and this is really interesting and
Speaker 1: we would love to do it, but we're selling our magazines.
Speaker 1: We don't believe in the future of the printed word.
Speaker 1: That's what he told me this, And they said, we
Speaker 1: suggest that was they were just a just sold seventeen magazine,
Speaker 1: are they We're going to sell it? And they knew
Speaker 1: what they were doing. They were they were getting out
Speaker 1: of the printage magazine, going into TV and more into
Speaker 1: the newspaper world. So um. So then I said, I said, okay,
Speaker 1: well what should I do? I mean, I hear I
Speaker 1: have this fantastic idea, and Rupert said, I take it
Speaker 1: to time, And so I took it to time. I
Speaker 1: never knew that story. And so I met with Red
Speaker 1: Brock and Chris Mirror and who else was there a
Speaker 1: few other guys. We went to Caravelle Restaurant, which was
Speaker 1: their lunch room basically, And Caraville is owned by friends
Speaker 1: of mine who are now the parents of Sweet Green.
Speaker 1: Do you know that? No, I didn't know that. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: their son started Sweet Green and they all became billionaires
Speaker 1: because every they cut. The convoluted history is really kind
Speaker 1: of interesting. And anyway, so I take the prototype to lunch.
Speaker 1: I showed the whole thing at Caraville Restaurant, which is
Speaker 1: a little bit um and you're not supposed to take
Speaker 1: out papers and stuff with those fancy French lunch places.
Speaker 1: But I did it anyway, and the boys um looked
Speaker 1: at it and they said, geez, this is fantastic. He said,
Speaker 1: but this is the Julyisha, What would you do next July?
Speaker 1: It looks like you covered fourth of July here. And
Speaker 1: I said, gentlemen, you just don't understand what creativity is.
Speaker 1: We have the best team, the best ideas. I could
Speaker 1: go on for Fourth of July for at least thirty years,
Speaker 1: which is exactly what we did, right. And we never
Speaker 1: repeated a recipe. We never repeated anything. Um, maybe we
Speaker 1: decorated a bicycle started like a bicycle we did twenty
Speaker 1: five years ago, but not really. I mean, creativity is boundless,
Speaker 1: and and and living. I kept saying to them, living
Speaker 1: is limitless, Living is limitless. Were you know, into the
Speaker 1: second or third millennial of human life here of productive
Speaker 1: human life, and it's limitless. It changes all the time.
Speaker 1: So anyway, they bit and they bought, they bought and
Speaker 1: became our partners and they and they let me start
Speaker 1: to hire the team. And that's when we got together
Speaker 1: in big time. Now, you were at Clarkson Potter at
Speaker 1: the time. Then I was in House and Garden. You
Speaker 1: were still at House and Garden. Oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: thought you were you had already moved over to books,
Speaker 1: but the books books came came first. So that's what happened. Okay.
Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out that that chronology, and
Speaker 1: you were you were also doing right doing books. So
Speaker 1: what were you doing at that particular time? I was
Speaker 1: doing your I was trying to get you to finish
Speaker 1: the Old House book. Oh, the new Old House, the
Speaker 1: new Old House, and you were really really late, as
Speaker 1: with your deadlines. That turned out to be a really
Speaker 1: good book. It was a great book, and you know
Speaker 1: people are buying that book now. I still have it.
Speaker 1: I Sews the House. If you don't have that book,
Speaker 1: you should look for it. It's on It's on Amazon.
Speaker 1: But it's a good book because it really told you
Speaker 1: how to restore and rebuild an old house. And I
Speaker 1: did it with my brother George right, who was a contractor.
Speaker 1: It was so great. So um so is Older came
Speaker 1: as editor in chief. I didn't know how to make
Speaker 1: a magazine and is Older knew how to edit. She
Speaker 1: knew how to get writers to write, and she knew
Speaker 1: how to put together an issue. She knew what a
Speaker 1: table of contents was. And you worked in magazines before,
Speaker 1: so you had a magazine. I had been a magazine
Speaker 1: editor until I had a baby, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: magazines are too time consuming. I'll do books instead because
Speaker 1: there's never really a deadline, which turned out to be true.
Speaker 1: So I did magazines for crib into the office. I
Speaker 1: bought a porter crib for the office because so many
Speaker 1: of us had babies, and I had the worst fight
Speaker 1: with the time Inc. Accounting people because they said it
Speaker 1: was a personal expense, and I kept explaining that no,
Speaker 1: we all have babies. We need, we need somewhere to
Speaker 1: put them more. Though I did on that hot floor,
Speaker 1: they were at least warm. Yeah, you know. And but
Speaker 1: we learned how to We learned, and you put together
Speaker 1: an amazing team of creatives. Gail was like a magnet
Speaker 1: for creativity, and um and so many of those they're
Speaker 1: still all our friends, they are still all we work with.
Speaker 1: What I wanted to ask you of your of the
Speaker 1: pot who was the first photographer that we really really
Speaker 1: clicked with? You know? I think it was Bill Alebrono
Speaker 1: Wits and and can I tell my photography story? So
Speaker 1: you know, I had been at House and Garden and
Speaker 1: I'd been making friends with photographers and making relationships with photographers.
Speaker 1: And when I left there to come to work for you,
Speaker 1: and at time inc um I we had to get
Speaker 1: busy right away. We started August one. We had our
Speaker 1: first magazine on the news stand, the Christmas issue on
Speaker 1: November twelve, which is an unheard of short period it
Speaker 1: of time. But we had to get busy right away.
Speaker 1: So I immediately started calling photographers and they all said
Speaker 1: to me, I can't work for you, I can't work
Speaker 1: for you, I can't work for you. And Finally somebody said, Gail,
Speaker 1: you have been You and Martha have been embargoed by
Speaker 1: Conde Nast. They sent us all a letter, none of
Speaker 1: us are allowed to work for you. Well, I was
Speaker 1: terrified because here I am, I had that responsibility, but
Speaker 1: I wasn't terrified because I knew there was other talent
Speaker 1: all around us. And we ended up hiring people who
Speaker 1: were our friends from books. Chris Baker, who you worked with.
Speaker 1: I worked with Chris so much, and and you did
Speaker 1: one of your at least one, maybe two of your
Speaker 1: books with Chris Baker, um Maria Blado, who was Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Schene who was shooting your garden book, and that we
Speaker 1: all worked on in between issues, and they hoped change
Speaker 1: the look of the the story to the story was fantastic.
Speaker 1: And then all those other photographers ultimately were allowed to
Speaker 1: come back and work with us. There was also the
Speaker 1: problem of photographers being snotty, and there was the one
Speaker 1: who said, I don't want to photograph a housewife in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: Who is that? Do you remember that? Oh? You know,
Speaker 1: I think people really underestimated us in the beginning. A
Speaker 1: lot of people, not just the photographers, but I didn't
Speaker 1: know it was going to look completely different from anything
Speaker 1: that we were. The modern Remember how we used to
Speaker 1: talk about the television program called thirty something that was
Speaker 1: all the rage at the time, and it was very
Speaker 1: modern and it was aesthetically modern and good looking, and
Speaker 1: we really thought, well, if that can be six testful,
Speaker 1: we can completely change the aesthetics of the Woman's magazine. Well,
Speaker 1: when we put the I mean this first issue it
Speaker 1: was Christmas. But in this issue we have not only
Speaker 1: a stencil for fabulous stars and moons, we have full
Speaker 1: page picture of three forks and a butter knife, but
Speaker 1: the most beautiful forks and butter knife, and and the
Speaker 1: stenciled tablecloth that we made for the table in silver
Speaker 1: silver stensil. People went nuts over these craft ideas. Crafting
Speaker 1: became like a rage, and home crafting became a rage.
Speaker 1: Making fantastic food that looked like it was prepared at
Speaker 1: Lagrani in New York City. Look at this soup, the
Speaker 1: pasta homemade pasta carrot and um. Let me see red
Speaker 1: pepper pasta and basil pasta cut into stars, served in
Speaker 1: a very fabulous boullion. But Martha, you changed the way
Speaker 1: recipes were div eloped and photographed. You did it like
Speaker 1: you were doing your books, And I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons we were able to do the magazine
Speaker 1: the first issue so quickly. But but other magazines didn't
Speaker 1: do the process that you created. You created a new
Speaker 1: process for for recipes. I did. And it was like
Speaker 1: one person or two people in the kitchen, not a gotten,
Speaker 1: you know, giant crew. Each person was responsible for doing
Speaker 1: something like I remember doing this whole thing with one
Speaker 1: other person. She was phenomenal and fearless, totally fearless. In
Speaker 1: the beginning, Alexis is doing the Oh look at this.
Speaker 1: This was my favorite dessert, sponge sugar with a trial,
Speaker 1: fabulous caramelized tweel at homemade ice cream, so elegant. But
Speaker 1: then I think Alexis isn't here doing her her wrapping paper.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, which was on which was on browncraft paper,
Speaker 1: browncraft paper and paint. That changed the whole idea of
Speaker 1: wrapping for people. You can Oh, there she is, looking amazing,
Speaker 1: making a mess in my on my cencil floors in
Speaker 1: my hall away, making the most beautiful wrapping paper. And
Speaker 1: there she is, I mean, and it's and the the
Speaker 1: wrappings were gorgeous. But this is what we did. We
Speaker 1: we kind of we didn't internalize it at all. We
Speaker 1: kind of expanded the whole idea of making doing creating
Speaker 1: at home in a very sophisticated way, but not so
Speaker 1: sophisticated that it couldn't do it to everybody. Now, Remember,
Speaker 1: I think this was like an eye opener to people.
Speaker 1: It really was. And didn't we create this magazine on
Speaker 1: a Macintosh? None of us had ever used a computer
Speaker 1: for layout and photography and all of that. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you used a computer used for I remember
Speaker 1: I bought an ID in two, so it was very
Speaker 1: important for me to be totally modern and technologically savvy.
Speaker 1: And you guys lived up to the desire because you really,
Speaker 1: you really, it was so exciting. It was remember your name,
Speaker 1: Tammy Tamara Tomorrow, who is married to Jeff Jervis, who
Speaker 1: found it Entertainment Weekly. But I didn't find that out
Speaker 1: until later. But she sat up the whole system and
Speaker 1: it was hilarious because we had hard disks that we
Speaker 1: passed around. Oh God, that was the end, you know,
Speaker 1: you finished something and hand the physical disk to somebody
Speaker 1: else to do that. Nobody had done that before with
Speaker 1: an illustrated magazine of this magnitude. Nobody even there was
Speaker 1: no Wired magazine at the time. That mean that came later.
Speaker 1: But but other other Vogue and I came from Conde NaSTA.
Speaker 1: We were doing paste up, we were doing photostats and
Speaker 1: paste up, and that we should be so proud of
Speaker 1: the fact that absolutely, and that was so innovative and
Speaker 1: so fantastic. And this cookies for children, I mean, here
Speaker 1: we have children making sophisticated, delicious cookies. There's my little
Speaker 1: friend Monica pastor Neck and all these little neighbor kids
Speaker 1: came in. I remember, and my um my nephew is
Speaker 1: in this in this issue. In this issue, I think
Speaker 1: they borrowed and sold children from everywhere. And the cookies
Speaker 1: are so delicious, the recipes and beautiful looking. Well see
Speaker 1: that's the thing about the recipes. This is what I recall.
Speaker 1: There would be a recipe that would be developed, and
Speaker 1: that person who was developing it, you and Laura in
Speaker 1: the in those days, would be responsible for doing it
Speaker 1: again for the camera. And so there was no you know,
Speaker 1: none of the things, none of the tricks of food style.
Speaker 1: From the beginning, I said, there's going to be no
Speaker 1: figuri The food is going to look just like it
Speaker 1: looks if you made it yourself. And there is no figuery,
Speaker 1: there's no oil, glazes, ice cream made that mashed potatoes,
Speaker 1: masotto cream, no nothing fake at all, and you can
Speaker 1: and you can eat it right after you shoot at you,
Speaker 1: which we did, which we did because otherwise we were starving.
Speaker 1: But remember, yeah, remember shooting in Florida in the Keys,
Speaker 1: the little children with ice cream because it was real
Speaker 1: ice cream. It just kept Meanwhile, everybody dresses, you know,
Speaker 1: that's I think that's in this issue. That's why I
Speaker 1: brought this issue because that Florida shoot was I was
Speaker 1: pregnant with August and I brought Maud with me. Maud
Speaker 1: was like two or three. I still on issue number one,
Speaker 1: but oh there's there's Kirk Sophie. Oh yeah, and we
Speaker 1: had we made all of the of the dresses for
Speaker 1: the children. I mean, that's the kind of extent that
Speaker 1: we and I learned something from you on this one, Martha.
Speaker 1: These are all these beautiful ice creams that we shot.
Speaker 1: I think Davison star shot that, but you, you, you
Speaker 1: made the most beautiful scoop and then each one was frozen,
Speaker 1: so that when it came to the camera, which we
Speaker 1: did not shoot in Florida. The kids we shot in
Speaker 1: Florida solouettes, Oh my gosh, so fabulous. So you have
Speaker 1: to look at all your early magazines of Martha Stewart living.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love that layout. That was so pretty
Speaker 1: and they were getting their chocolate all over there. Look
Speaker 1: at that. You can see the big splash of chocolate
Speaker 1: on the little girl's art. And we just kept shooting out.
Speaker 1: Uh but you know what the other story that was
Speaker 1: so fun and on that remember the storm. Oh yes,
Speaker 1: we had this idea of creating this romantic dinner on
Speaker 1: the beach and we put I don't know, four or
Speaker 1: six posts in the ground. All of this this was
Speaker 1: in the Key No No, that island later that this
Speaker 1: is the one. You were standing up on a on
Speaker 1: a on a ladder and I was on another ladder
Speaker 1: and we building that building that beautiful, beautiful. So it's
Speaker 1: this kind of drapy romand to having a fire permit
Speaker 1: building fires anyway on hoping that the fire department wouldn't
Speaker 1: catch on. So there was a storm coming and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, on the horizon we saw this like
Speaker 1: black cloud coming and the wind was coming up, and
Speaker 1: we all looked at you, like, what are we supposed
Speaker 1: to do now? And you yelled to us keep going,
Speaker 1: keep going. Only I knew it was our only chance.
Speaker 1: And that's it. That's the shot. Vicky Incredible immediately put
Speaker 1: all of her equipment in the car because it was
Speaker 1: about to pour. The cloud moved over us, poured poured rain,
Speaker 1: but it was and and then behind the rain cloud
Speaker 1: was the sunset, the sunset. She ran out of the
Speaker 1: car with her camera and she got it. It was
Speaker 1: we had I would say, maybe ten minutes of light
Speaker 1: and then the rest of it we had to fake
Speaker 1: the next day because we totally lost drama and nobody
Speaker 1: was executed. We were so we were so dedicated to
Speaker 1: getting that picture. And this is before we were doing
Speaker 1: really serious television. This is before we were synergizing with
Speaker 1: all the other signs of media that we got into.
Speaker 1: But we knew that what we were creating a day
Speaker 1: in and day out was evergreen material that is as
Speaker 1: good today as it was then. And uh and that
Speaker 1: has been proven. That has been proven because these recipes
Speaker 1: in are in many of our books. Many of these
Speaker 1: the things that we created for the magazine ended up
Speaker 1: in a book or on television. Uh. But it never
Speaker 1: felt like we were reusing and reusing. It always felt
Speaker 1: it was so experimental. It was and its And so
Speaker 1: this is Past Christian and the same issue. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is kind of an extraordinary istue because this is
Speaker 1: also an incredible story. We went shrimping, and we were
Speaker 1: there on the last day that the shrimp boats were
Speaker 1: allowed to go out, but there was like a thunderstorm,
Speaker 1: and so we couldn't shrimp. But then they said, we'll
Speaker 1: take you out. We can fake it. But here's beautiful
Speaker 1: Diro Diro Pucket, who was one of one of our
Speaker 1: big helpers in the early days of Inspiration. She had
Speaker 1: a beautiful house in Past Christian. If you know that
Speaker 1: part of Louisiana, you'll you'll know that Past Christiane was
Speaker 1: completely destroyed by Hurricane was that Katrina? Katrina? That's right,
Speaker 1: Katrina that destroyed New Orleans. Her house, her found generations,
Speaker 1: a big house. All that was left of that house
Speaker 1: where the front stairs. Remember the picture I do, And
Speaker 1: we have a picture of Deerro and her husband sitting
Speaker 1: on their front steps, three stone steps and nothing behind them.
Speaker 1: A three story monster house was blown away. Do you
Speaker 1: remember why we were shooting everything in the south for
Speaker 1: the summer issue is because it was the middle of winter.
Speaker 1: Because we had just started, we had to shoot everything
Speaker 1: in the wrong seasons. So that Christmas issue we did
Speaker 1: in August, and I'm not sure I've ever and then
Speaker 1: the summer and we we did a lot of crazy stuff.
Speaker 1: And I always said, well, I've had three Christmas this
Speaker 1: year because I would do a Christmas in August for
Speaker 1: the magazine, and I would do a Christmas for television,
Speaker 1: then I would do another another Christmas for somebody else,
Speaker 1: and then by the time Christmas came, you always wanted
Speaker 1: to travel, because that's right. That's when I started taking
Speaker 1: the kids on those big trips around the wall. You know,
Speaker 1: that's right, because it was a getaway from redecorating again.
Speaker 1: But um, But so getting back to the photographers and
Speaker 1: that first issue you mentioned Bill Lebrono Wits. I just
Speaker 1: got a nice letter from Bill just this week, and
Speaker 1: he's not living in Bedford any longer, you know, up
Speaker 1: to where their skihouse was, and he's and he's anxious
Speaker 1: to come and have dinner and talk somewhere because he
Speaker 1: was fondly remembering all those early days used to these
Speaker 1: Comrads catalogs. And Laura Harrigan, who was our one of
Speaker 1: our designers, new Bill and she was working freelance on
Speaker 1: the Conrads catalog, and so she introduced us to Bill,
Speaker 1: and Bill came over and showed us his portfolio, and
Speaker 1: I just loved the way he made things like Conrad's
Speaker 1: furniture look active. You know, the cover had somebody carrying
Speaker 1: the sofa into the house instead of like the more
Speaker 1: typical way of doing things. You know, he was able
Speaker 1: to get movement into things that were normally shot in
Speaker 1: a very static way. But that that was one of
Speaker 1: the things that was really different. One of the early
Speaker 1: rules that was in the first outline was every room
Speaker 1: needs to look as the family has just left it
Speaker 1: or is about to come in. So glosses need to
Speaker 1: have water in them, pillows need to have a little
Speaker 1: bit of a dent in them, and people like Bill
Speaker 1: understood that. So everything didn't look like a cattle, nothing
Speaker 1: looked like a catalog. Everything looked and it didn't look
Speaker 1: like other magazines overly perfected like Gourmet in those days,
Speaker 1: or Architectural Digest, in those days that like weird lighting,
Speaker 1: and we were using natural light, which you did in
Speaker 1: your books, which all of our photographers cared about. Natural
Speaker 1: light made everything look more delicious and more real, and
Speaker 1: it meant you had to work really fast, and I
Speaker 1: think that probably helped. We got a lot done every
Speaker 1: single day, a lot, and we published everything. I mean
Speaker 1: I came from a house and garden where they had
Speaker 1: mountains and mountains of unpublished material. You know, they just
Speaker 1: had files and files and files, and we said about
Speaker 1: doing a lineup. We shot the lineup, We published the lineup.
Speaker 1: Every cent had to go on the page because they
Speaker 1: gave us so little money. Um well, sing back, that
Speaker 1: was a lot of money in those days. Because now
Speaker 1: the budgets are like one can true, I know what
Speaker 1: they used to be. And when I think of the
Speaker 1: amazing upholstery and the amazing amazing coverlets and pillows, throw
Speaker 1: pillows that we were able to to make for the
Speaker 1: magazine for those photos, you can't do that now. No,
Speaker 1: But compared to everybody else, the cost per page was
Speaker 1: so low. But I was proud of that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was very proud that we had a budget and we
Speaker 1: stuck to it well we didn't have an option and yet,
Speaker 1: but it made us even more creative and I really
Speaker 1: I was very very proud of that all through the years. Well,
Speaker 1: and we were doing that stuff ourselves. We were sewing things,
Speaker 1: we were doing the painting, the painting on the you know,
Speaker 1: converting a dresser and doing the painting and changing the knobs.
Speaker 1: And one of my favorites was that was that French
Speaker 1: designer who did the painted furniture. Who was that French
Speaker 1: designer that did the beautiful buchanicles botanicles on on a
Speaker 1: creamy background. Right, you know, my sister bought that from
Speaker 1: the magazine. She did that story. She has it, she does,
Speaker 1: she still has it in her dining room. But that
Speaker 1: was such a beautiful story. That idea came from that
Speaker 1: wonderful Belgian designer who did that kind of thing in
Speaker 1: the nineties. But it was essentially like a Dave Coupas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so beautiful and we got inspired by so
Speaker 1: many different things all over the world. When we did
Speaker 1: the Reads, Reads, I just loved. We decided we were
Speaker 1: going to do not only a story about Reads of
Speaker 1: all the states and the magazine, but we created a
Speaker 1: book and Hannah worked on that. Remember with the cranberry.
Speaker 1: I will never forget that. And you know that she
Speaker 1: got Remember when everybody got sick and we arrived that
Speaker 1: they were shooting the magnolia, and then they all of
Speaker 1: them went on shoots afterwards, and I met Hannah and
Speaker 1: Aspen and she could barely talk, and she ended up
Speaker 1: with a terrible she was horribly sick, and she had
Speaker 1: to go on oxygen. And because they were breathing in
Speaker 1: the greenhouses, the pesticides that they were they were I
Speaker 1: think spraying all the magnolia tree seedlings or something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they lived. All of them are live. And you
Speaker 1: know what they used to pass are great. Here's the
Speaker 1: primary reason. Look at that. Here it is. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that pary breath. If you make it, you're guaranteed
Speaker 1: to have pricked fingers because it's a half of a
Speaker 1: sharp wooden toothpick in each cranberry that then sticks into
Speaker 1: the cranberry and also sticks into the styrofoam wreath. Afraid,
Speaker 1: but you won't die. You won't die. Probably important to
Speaker 1: know or something in your fingerships. But but this was handmade.
Speaker 1: Reads the whole the whole beginning of the wreath craze
Speaker 1: started in this magazine, and we did start a lot
Speaker 1: of crazes that we did. We did so the whole
Speaker 1: idea of handmade. I mean, I think that um we
Speaker 1: were responsible for. I mean, d I Y obviously was
Speaker 1: invented before that, but we made it so beautiful and
Speaker 1: so creative. And I think you know remember how we
Speaker 1: would get thousands of letters every week and they all
Speaker 1: started with dear Martha, and it was really about how
Speaker 1: this person who made this cake or made this dresser
Speaker 1: or what they're reach the million litter mark and Kim
Speaker 1: Dumer and her little team and oh and you remember
Speaker 1: Susie Wall. She was head of communications and she got
Speaker 1: all the litters and Kim Dumer was her assistant, and
Speaker 1: now Kim Dumer is still working for us. And uh,
Speaker 1: it was it was incredible reading those letters, month after months,
Speaker 1: millions of letters. Well in the letters they would always
Speaker 1: start dear Martha, but the next sentence was my neighbors,
Speaker 1: my family call me the Martha of wherever. And then
Speaker 1: there would be a lot of the time there'd be
Speaker 1: a polaroid of something they've done, which is just lovely.
Speaker 1: But it was because there was this huge hole in
Speaker 1: the market between the fancy decorating magazines that like Architectural
Speaker 1: Digest or House and Garden that assumed you had money
Speaker 1: and a decorator um and the magazines that were for
Speaker 1: people who didn't have a lot of money but assumed
Speaker 1: you had no taste. So, Martha, you made it possible
Speaker 1: for people to respect and still make things. Well, you
Speaker 1: assumed that people who didn't have money still wanted things
Speaker 1: to be beautiful. Well that's the whole kark star to
Speaker 1: make a sheaf of wheat look like that with a
Speaker 1: golden rib, so beautiful, so utterly beautiful. And this magnolia
Speaker 1: wreath with the and I made this one for the
Speaker 1: White House to remember. I made that giant for Mrs Clinton,
Speaker 1: and I went and I hung it on the porch
Speaker 1: of the White House on the seconds A great photograph.
Speaker 1: That is a great photograph. And we we decorated parts
Speaker 1: of the White House. We did a tree, we did
Speaker 1: the Vice President's house. We did so much in other places,
Speaker 1: and we photographed them and recorded them and we had
Speaker 1: the best time. We did have a good time. Didn't
Speaker 1: you do a gingerbread house at the White House? Or
Speaker 1: gingerbread house off the White House. No I did that.
Speaker 1: I did. We did for television Abbey. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: And the whole cast of Downton Abbey came to the
Speaker 1: magazine to see the gingerbread. It was incredible. Good lord, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've done a lot of great things. Lot. Oh here
Speaker 1: I am. I think this is a Ralph Floren jacket.
Speaker 1: I was looking for. That is my Ralph Floren jacket.
Speaker 1: And now is that the second Christmas issues? The second
Speaker 1: Christmas issue December nine? And there I am in front
Speaker 1: of my porch doors on Turkey Hill Road. Who knew
Speaker 1: I would be living next door to Ralph Lauren here
Speaker 1: in Bedford. That's right, And I still have that jacket.
Speaker 1: I saved it. Oh yeah, I saved that. You look
Speaker 1: great in that jacket. That's so beautiful. And again, uh,
Speaker 1: talk about variety. There's nothing repetitive in this December from
Speaker 1: the year before. Every single idea is new and different.
Speaker 1: We introduced people to stationary too beautiful, how to embost
Speaker 1: your own stationary, how to how to create stationary that
Speaker 1: looks like it was made at the most extraordinary engravers.
Speaker 1: But we also show engraves stationary so that you are
Speaker 1: educated in the art of fine stationary and the cheeses
Speaker 1: and the silver where, oh, the whole collecting thing. Maria company,
Speaker 1: that's Maria. Yeah, you can tell him Maria photograph. She's
Speaker 1: now making the most beautiful pottery. Can imagine. Look at
Speaker 1: that beautiful photograph. Do you have that hanging in your house?
Speaker 1: I have I I have two pictures from that shoot
Speaker 1: hanging or what's actually they're sort of propped up. But
Speaker 1: this is another art. You know. The whole thing about
Speaker 1: being inspired by antique photography was a was a big
Speaker 1: deal for people like Mario or Victor Schreeger or John
Speaker 1: doug Dale. I mean, remember John, And this is this
Speaker 1: is the this is the Chicken story photographed by Victor Schreeger.
Speaker 1: And it's one of my favorite stories to tell because
Speaker 1: I went to an exhibition of Victor's photographs at a
Speaker 1: gallery and he was shooting wild birds and he was
Speaker 1: holding He created this thing with a hand's backdrop with
Speaker 1: a hole in it and then a slit and you'd
Speaker 1: put your hand through the hole to hold the legs
Speaker 1: of the bird, and then you'd have a kind of
Speaker 1: silhouetted picture of the bird and it would be you'd
Speaker 1: be able to see all the details of the bird
Speaker 1: because there was no background. And that's the way they
Speaker 1: used to take pictures of chickens in catalogs in order
Speaker 1: to sell the chickens inform catogs being photographed at the
Speaker 1: Turkey Turkey Hill. And so I arrived. Hannah had been
Speaker 1: up all night. Hannah was hand Melman was our stylist,
Speaker 1: our wonderful styles, dying these backdrops in coffee in her bathtub.
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, dyeing the pens.
Speaker 1: So Nasy was washing the chickens in a big um tub,
Speaker 1: you know, a galvanized or an enamel tub um. And
Speaker 1: then the chickens were being blown dry with a hair
Speaker 1: dryer on a very very long extension cord so that
Speaker 1: they were all nice and fluffy for the picture. And
Speaker 1: so and Martha was like, yay, go go to the
Speaker 1: palid pool and get me a good looking chicken. I
Speaker 1: had never I thought to myself, Okay, this is the
Speaker 1: first time as an art director I've ever had to
Speaker 1: go running after chickens. And then this is one of
Speaker 1: my favorite covers. I don't have that jacket from Martha, Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: from the shoot. Oh you do know I did, you did.
Speaker 1: I wore it for years. Yeah, this is a great
Speaker 1: dress as it was not as it was an amid
Speaker 1: though it definitely wasn't it was. We'll argue Jay Crewe,
Speaker 1: I think, but it's the most natural, completely no makeup,
Speaker 1: just standing there, you know, just absolutely beautiful, no hairdresser. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if I had makeup, I applied it myself. But
Speaker 1: that was a beautiful pallid play meeting Chicken Palace. I'm
Speaker 1: looking at a picture here of this. This is one
Speaker 1: of our first inspired inspired stories about a wedding m
Speaker 1: hm and Christmas wedding that was your house son, lillipan Lain. This, yes,
Speaker 1: and this an amazing story photographed by oh John Dugdale
Speaker 1: talking about and John John Dugdale developed a terrible eyesight
Speaker 1: problem where he went went blind. And he is a
Speaker 1: photographer with the finest, finest sense of of imagery. I
Speaker 1: mean nobody had a better sense of imagery. And he
Speaker 1: could see less and less and less, and he still
Speaker 1: takes photographs. He's still he just had another show. He
Speaker 1: uses a large format eight by ten some of us
Speaker 1: photographs and we were just looking up, looking up at
Speaker 1: the chag for the chag sail. I wasn't going to
Speaker 1: sell his photographs, but somebody looked them up. There are
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of tars. Good. I'm happy that, I'm
Speaker 1: very happy. But this image of the Stephanotis bouquet, this
Speaker 1: is a Stephanotas bouquet, and I threaded the Stephanotis flowers
Speaker 1: on ribbon so that long streamers of Stephanotis blossoms. Nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody could even Meanwhile, the picture is like three by five.
Speaker 1: I know, nobody could even imagine such a thing. And
Speaker 1: that started my really really serious interest in weddings. Okay,
Speaker 1: as if Living wasn't enough, weddings came second. And this
Speaker 1: was in nine five years after the birth of Martha
Speaker 1: Stewart Living magazine, we decided to do Martha Stewart Living Weddings.
Speaker 1: And this was again, I mean, there were other magazines
Speaker 1: devoted to weddings and brides, but this was again taking
Speaker 1: the same philosophy of educating and inspiring the many many
Speaker 1: brides in America. At that time there were about two million,
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand brides and getting married every year. And
Speaker 1: this bookay, remember that Bouquet, Okay, you made it. I
Speaker 1: stripped I put them all together, hoping that I was
Speaker 1: going to get a big, round bouquet of roses and
Speaker 1: it turned out to be a heart. And wait, I
Speaker 1: thought you planned that. Oh no, it was a mistake,
Speaker 1: no idea, you're a kid. Take And everyone said, said,
Speaker 1: you don't want a heart for a wedding book, And
Speaker 1: I said, I think we said, that's a brilliant idea.
Speaker 1: You were the model. Was an editorial assistant. Yeah right,
Speaker 1: And I know, really I was reading even even Dorcy.
Speaker 1: I was looking as skance, thinking, oh God, just make
Speaker 1: it a hard Bookay, one of the most copy bouquet
Speaker 1: wedding bocause and florists all over the country were begged
Speaker 1: to make heart shaped rose bouquese. But this was a
Speaker 1: very special thing. And uh, and the weddings business was born.
Speaker 1: And who's the editor? Dorcy was laid away. She wasn't. Well,
Speaker 1: we did that with the living, we did that with
Speaker 1: your living. I had left to Vandy. I abandoned you
Speaker 1: to have Ian, and then I came back for weddings.
Speaker 1: And I also came back for television. Okay, so I
Speaker 1: worked on that one. How dare you leave to have
Speaker 1: a baby? How dare you gave us baby show. I know,
Speaker 1: I was very nice. Well, we were all well, we
Speaker 1: were we were all having babies, which is why the
Speaker 1: Baby Magazine and then the Kids Magazine was such such
Speaker 1: good magazines because we were living it. You know, we
Speaker 1: were mothers. But you know, I should read my letters
Speaker 1: from these these issues. That's here's the first issue from Martha.
Speaker 1: I was the editor in chief of this magazine. They surprise, surprise, surprise, surprise.
Speaker 1: What else was I doing in these days? Making all
Speaker 1: these beautiful year are doing television? Um Daily Show? Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, Well no, I don't art director. I was
Speaker 1: an editor in chief of this issue. So and then
Speaker 1: then we had oh gosh, Susan Spung and was doing
Speaker 1: the food, Sarah Medford who's now writing for so many
Speaker 1: Fantastic U and Darcy Miller, she was a senior editor
Speaker 1: at Hannah was a senior editor. We had We had
Speaker 1: an amazing group and Francis Boswell. People were still working
Speaker 1: with people we still talked to and who you'll meet
Speaker 1: a lot of these people in the next few years
Speaker 1: as we'd continue with our podcast. You know, I think
Speaker 1: that the talent at our magazine was really everybody inspired
Speaker 1: one another and and you know, I'll be maybe this
Speaker 1: is sort of a crass thing to say, but everybody
Speaker 1: had this idea that they were all Martha's ideas, but
Speaker 1: in fact it was such a community of ideas and
Speaker 1: everybody shared their ideas and by the time it got
Speaker 1: on the page, you never knew like where it originated,
Speaker 1: but that sense of being inspired by each other. People
Speaker 1: like Fritz Carsh who had had the most amazing office
Speaker 1: and was always finding things out there in the world
Speaker 1: and bringing them to show collecting editor and his stories
Speaker 1: were just inspiring. So it caused chaos in the antique
Speaker 1: world because we did a story on something that he
Speaker 1: wanted us to do a story on, and it became
Speaker 1: the rage and the prices Scott rocketed. So it's true.
Speaker 1: We knew so from the very beginning. We had a
Speaker 1: source directory in the back because we knew that people
Speaker 1: would want to get things. And in the very first
Speaker 1: issue there was a cookie cutter that was made by
Speaker 1: this tiny little Moravian shop somewhere in Pennsylvania, and a
Speaker 1: week or so after the issue came out, we got
Speaker 1: a phone call from them saying he'll help. Yeah, we sold,
Speaker 1: So after that we had to start warning yeah, craftspeople
Speaker 1: and shops if we were going to feature something, because
Speaker 1: so many people would have rights. Actually, our bus Selline
Speaker 1: cover of all time, wasn't it the Snowman? No, I
Speaker 1: don't know. That was after my time. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It wasn't it was? It was our well, you know
Speaker 1: what I think the Christmas this was the newstand best
Speaker 1: selling issue of all time. And I was recently on
Speaker 1: a commercial shoot with John Travolta, and John Travolta said
Speaker 1: to me, Martha, I have to show you some pictures
Speaker 1: because every Christmas I make the little ice cream snowman
Speaker 1: for my family. What was the commercial you're doing at
Speaker 1: John Travolta, It was for okay, pre Miracle Growth, but
Speaker 1: he said, and he showed me pictures of different years
Speaker 1: of his snowman. That's that's the cutest thing. Isn't that nice?
Speaker 1: And this is John Travolta whatever cream Snowman with coconut.
Speaker 1: I love the idea of that hip people doing like
Speaker 1: making things so great all. Do you remember our fight
Speaker 1: about what John Dolan picture in this magazine? Yes, um,
Speaker 1: it's I actually yes, because I was so upset, so
Speaker 1: I know about it. I don't think it ever got
Speaker 1: to because I did turn around. I did. I was
Speaker 1: not I was not informed of lots of it's the
Speaker 1: trunk of a car. But meanwhile, but John Dolan then
Speaker 1: became you know, this is a picture that I found.
Speaker 1: John Dolan is a famous and he had become as
Speaker 1: this car. And the advertising stuff said we had to
Speaker 1: remove the where we have, Yeah, we had to remove them,
Speaker 1: but they wanted me to remove the picture. I wanted
Speaker 1: to the picture. And then the compromise we came up
Speaker 1: with was to remove remove the logo because they thought
Speaker 1: it would upset the advertisers of other cars. So that
Speaker 1: is that was the old fashioned way of thinking. Now, well, meanwhile,
Speaker 1: I am now a practically over this proudly. Well, that's
Speaker 1: exactly right. I practically quit over this. And there was
Speaker 1: a big to do in a big fight. And about
Speaker 1: two weeks later I sa Susanne Sobel in the elevator
Speaker 1: and she said to me, Gail, guess what we got
Speaker 1: advertising from Mercedes because of that picture. I almost I
Speaker 1: could have run her neck. Yes, I practically lost my
Speaker 1: job over She like politely says, you know, oh, I
Speaker 1: know I love this cover. That's baby Jude, my first
Speaker 1: grandchild and my only granddaughter, Jude Stewart. And uh, it's
Speaker 1: not from in her play. This is her play. Oh,
Speaker 1: this is what she was born eleven years ago, so
Speaker 1: you figure that out. Truth thousand and twelve. And Jude
Speaker 1: and Truman Truman was born already, because there's a Truman here. So, um,
Speaker 1: what a fantastic picture. I love this picture so much.
Speaker 1: And and any of you who are looking for a
Speaker 1: picture of Jude now you will never find it. I
Speaker 1: have been I am not allowed to ever show the
Speaker 1: faces of my grandchildren. Well probably other all other people do,
Speaker 1: but I'm not old. And so there's Jude the back
Speaker 1: of her head. But what a she's a beautiful like
Speaker 1: almost she's so tall as she's as almost as tall
Speaker 1: as I am. And she's eleven and uh, and all
Speaker 1: all of these toys have gone. These are now books, yeah,
Speaker 1: because they're eleven, ten and eleven. So all these gorgeous
Speaker 1: educational toys are now books. Well I guess it taught
Speaker 1: them how to read. So listen, we could go on,
Speaker 1: and I think we have to do a second, a
Speaker 1: second editorial podcasts because um, but I want you to
Speaker 1: I want you to say something that you want to
Speaker 1: say is older about your years being the editor of
Speaker 1: this magazine. What did it? What did it really mean
Speaker 1: to you? I think it was incredibly important to me
Speaker 1: because it's sort of wrought my life full circle in
Speaker 1: a way, because I grew up um in Ireland in
Speaker 1: a family that didn't have much money, and Ireland in
Speaker 1: general in those days was used to call it a
Speaker 1: third world country that just happened to be tacked onto Europe.
Speaker 1: But my dad was an architect, and so the idea was,
Speaker 1: things can be beautiful. We can't afford to buy them,
Speaker 1: we have to make them. So he would make gorgeous,
Speaker 1: would print Christmas cards and things like that. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you wanted your room painted, you painted your own room,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And my mother made organic food.
Speaker 1: And then I came to America and sort of learned
Speaker 1: to be a sophisticated magazine editor, and then I went
Speaker 1: I met Martha, and everything came full circle and it
Speaker 1: back to you can make something beautiful, and everything can
Speaker 1: be beautiful. You can your surroundings should be beautiful, your
Speaker 1: children's surroundings should be beautiful, and it's possible for everybody,
Speaker 1: and Gail. I guess the thing that I loved the
Speaker 1: most was the collaboration, the working with so many really
Speaker 1: really talented people, photographers and stylists, and the way the
Speaker 1: stories were made, because every story had a team, and
Speaker 1: the team would work together to make, you know, things
Speaker 1: that just weren't out there in the world that were new. UM,
Speaker 1: and that idea of creativity and how each person wants
Speaker 1: to be creative themselves. I think we gave that to people.
Speaker 1: And then after I left Martha Stewart, I started a
Speaker 1: website called Portraits and Creativity where I did videos about
Speaker 1: artists and foundations, and I learned to love that idea,
Speaker 1: that transition of going from the storytelling on the page
Speaker 1: to the storytelling and video, which was so much a
Speaker 1: part of our life at Martha Stewart. I think UM
Speaker 1: was very inspiring to me and inspired me to take
Speaker 1: that next step. But the thing that we didn't talk
Speaker 1: about was building the brand and the and going into
Speaker 1: Martha by Mail kmart. We haven't touched on any of
Speaker 1: those great stories, and I think that that was an
Speaker 1: extraordinarily creative moment in my life, and I know it
Speaker 1: was for you as well. And UM, we just had
Speaker 1: such a good time, such a good time, and we
Speaker 1: did great stuff and we were so innovative, you know,
Speaker 1: bringing such good design to the kmart audience. And everybody
Speaker 1: pooh poo did everybody said you shouldn't do kmart, but
Speaker 1: we were exposed to seventy two million Americans, um, and
Speaker 1: it we did advertising, we traveled together. I'll have all
Speaker 1: my products that I made a kmart because we too.
Speaker 1: And nothing has failed, no nothing. The tools, the kitchen
Speaker 1: tools are still working absolutely and the garden tools still work.
Speaker 1: That's right now. It was a very extraordinary time. But
Speaker 1: that was that was also an extraordinary time when we
Speaker 1: were still not reliant on uh everything being made overseas.
Speaker 1: We were still we were still a lot of American made.
Speaker 1: It was just starting to really expand worldwide, and the
Speaker 1: and the and uh as one economists said, the world
Speaker 1: was becoming flatter and flatter and you know, no boundaries, um,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you yearn for the olden days. But but
Speaker 1: progress has really shown us that we can still be
Speaker 1: tremendously creative and still do so many amazing things. And
Speaker 1: and the two of you really helped a tremendous number
Speaker 1: of people hone their craft, really, both of you and
Speaker 1: Gail and as older we did exhibits. Do you remember
Speaker 1: the Coopers and they are direct remember you know, these
Speaker 1: were amazing exhibits. And we still have a book to write.
Speaker 1: Gail and I put together a book. That book is
Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful, beautiful books as I had,
Speaker 1: I have it yet you do it, okay, It's one
Speaker 1: of the most beautiful books. It's a history of the
Speaker 1: creation of the Martha Stewart brand. And this this book
Speaker 1: has to be published because well we tried to get
Speaker 1: it published back in the day. Oh well, people were
Speaker 1: not they didn't understand branding. Boy, But now it will.
Speaker 1: It is very important and we will do it. But
Speaker 1: really and truly, I love talking to you guys. I
Speaker 1: love this, uh, this reminiscing of about a subject that is,
Speaker 1: of course when you're en deared to my heart. But
Speaker 1: but I'm glad to hear that it meant a lot
Speaker 1: to you guys too. And um, and we will have
Speaker 1: another conversation about all the other great things. And let's
Speaker 1: bring in a couple of other people too. When you
Speaker 1: start to meet all the people I have worked with,
Speaker 1: you are going to be astonished at the at the amazing,
Speaker 1: amazing people that uh, this one company has embraced, and
Speaker 1: how they have expanded their horizons beyond anybody's wildest dreams
Speaker 1: and gone on to be mother's, father's, aunt's, uncle's, grandma's
Speaker 1: whatever is old the mother of three, wife of a
Speaker 1: most amazing man, and Gail, mother of two, wife of
Speaker 1: an amazing designer. Um, it's it's it makes me very proud.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you, Martha. We are so lucky to
Speaker 1: have been able to work together and work with you
Speaker 1: and to pick back up after thirty years. Uh huh
Speaker 1: exactly