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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is

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Speaker 1: hot pursuit, all right.

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Speaker 2: So we have both been excited to talk to Tom

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Speaker 2: Wagner of Nighthead Capital for a while now, so he's

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Speaker 2: agreed to come in and talk to us. Let's get

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Speaker 2: straight into it. I want to just first off say

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Speaker 2: we both listened to Barrio Holtz podcast and we loved it.

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Speaker 2: And I always love Barry's podcast, But Hannah, you're the

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Speaker 2: one who turned me on to the to the Tom

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Speaker 2: Wagner episode, and it was great, right.

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Speaker 3: It was really good.

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Speaker 1: It was very far reaching, and I think it really

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Speaker 1: set a good platform for whar we can jump off of.

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Speaker 1: So anyone listening, go listen to the very very podcast

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Speaker 1: if you want to hear about more of the financial

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Speaker 1: side and sports teams.

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Speaker 3: And Tom Brady.

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Speaker 1: And those things, because we're going to focus on cars.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, for these purposes.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with your company is Nighthead Capital, and

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Speaker 2: you may investments in a lot of different assets, but

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Speaker 2: is it still like the distressed debt thing where you

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Speaker 2: kind of cut your teeth.

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Speaker 4: We do a lot of distressed investing, which I would

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Speaker 4: characterize as maybe not distressed as in the purest form anymore.

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Speaker 4: We invest in businesses that are going through transitions. Sometimes

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Speaker 4: that's a turnaround, maybe operationally, maybe financially, maybe strategically, and

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Speaker 4: we try to find places to deploy capital where our

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Speaker 4: capital and our expertise can make a difference. And we've

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Speaker 4: found some interesting investments in the automobile slash mobility space

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Speaker 4: broadly defined, where we believe we can make a positive impact.

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Speaker 2: So Revology and Singer, we've talked about Hertz, I think

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Speaker 2: is a famous one. And then you have a WEC

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Speaker 2: racing team, right Yoda, Yeah, are those the big automotive

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Speaker 2: investments that you have?

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Speaker 4: Those are certainly the biggest. There are a few other small,

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Speaker 4: more venture type things that that we don't really talk about.

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Speaker 4: By small, I mean really tiny dollars, but where we

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Speaker 4: think that they are strategically important to us. And then

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Speaker 4: others that are adjacent to those businesses where we think

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Speaker 4: we can bolt them on and grow the existing investments

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Speaker 4: that we have. But those four that you mentioned have

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Speaker 4: a common thread. We have a view that mobility is

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Speaker 4: going to move with increasing speed towards electrification because economically

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Speaker 4: and for other reasons socially environmentally, it makes the most sense.

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Speaker 4: We were bitterly and hurts. But the thesis that led

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Speaker 4: us to make that decision to purchase evs is intact,

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Speaker 4: if you hold the cars for a long enough period

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Speaker 4: of time, the rows are much better than ices, and

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Speaker 4: there are lots of other advantages there, but the fundamental

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Speaker 4: reality is that with most evs they don't inspire the

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Speaker 4: same kind of passion that certain other vehicles do. And

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Speaker 4: we felt that as people move towards electric vehicles as

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Speaker 4: the choice of transportation and to get from point A

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Speaker 4: to point B, there would be a rise in interest

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Speaker 4: in vehicles and inspire great passion because people would use

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Speaker 4: the evs as kind of their mode of transportation, low cost,

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Speaker 4: you know, high tech. I mean Tesla's you know, are

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Speaker 4: a great example of that. They're fantastic vehicles in getting

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Speaker 4: A to B very very safely, very very economically. But

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Speaker 4: on the weekend, maybe you want to go out and

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Speaker 4: have a different experience. Let's call it digital versus analog.

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Speaker 4: The analog experience for those who are car nuts, I think,

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Speaker 4: like the three of us and probably most of your listeners,

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Speaker 4: involves more than getting point A to point B.

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Speaker 5: It's the feel, it's the smell.

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Speaker 4: It's the sound, the vibration, the skill required to move

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Speaker 4: some of these vehicles with some level of speed and safety.

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Speaker 4: And we thought that that would continue and that has happened.

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Speaker 4: There's been a massive rise. Now that rise, we had

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Speaker 4: a big blip post COVID, and the day of reckoning

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Speaker 4: is now upon us when demand has kind of come

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Speaker 4: back to earth a little bit, and that's going to

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Speaker 4: cause a big shakeout. But I think the long term

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Speaker 4: trend continues to rise upward and we're going to see

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Speaker 4: more and more interest in these really really high quality

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Speaker 4: you know, non ev you know, ice, restored vehicles, reimagined vehicles.

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Speaker 5: That whole sector is going to continue to explode.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about Singer in particular

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Speaker 1: and what characteristics you saw in that company that made

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Speaker 1: you know, we really have some potential specifically with Singer. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think when when we made the investment, we looked

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Speaker 4: at it and said, is this something that's difficult to replicate?

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Speaker 4: And I think as much as said, well, there's lots

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Speaker 4: of people that restore porsches, there's lots of people that

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Speaker 4: restore cars, there's nobody that restores them like Singer and

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Speaker 4: that's why if you look at every you know, vehicle

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Speaker 4: seller and reseller globally, if you look at all of them,

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Speaker 4: lump them all together, Singers number two and average selling

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Speaker 4: price behind only Bugatti. You know, once you get b

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Speaker 4: On say ten units twenty units a year, and Singers

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Speaker 4: you know, in the vicinity of two hundred vehicles per year.

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Speaker 2: And that's why the way, that's amazing because Bugatti makes

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Speaker 2: the car from scratch, like they do it all. Singer

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Speaker 2: takes another vehicle and then modifies it and they still

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Speaker 2: get the second highest asking price.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a it's a reimagination of an existing Porsche

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Speaker 4: nine sixty four, which is the vehicle upon which Singer

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Speaker 4: performs its services in behalf of its customers. You know,

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Speaker 4: that reimagination process is everything other than what I'd characterize

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Speaker 4: as the body in white or the frame. So you

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Speaker 4: maintain the frame and you and you know, everything else

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Speaker 4: is kind of upgraded to the specifications of the customer.

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Speaker 4: And the level of specialization or customization is mind boggling.

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Speaker 4: There are no two Singers that are even close to

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Speaker 4: being the same. You know, you've got to be a

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Speaker 4: real nerd to notice the differences. But I think if Hannah,

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Speaker 4: you know, stepped into a car, sit it, come my gosh,

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Speaker 4: look at this one.

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Speaker 5: This is but you know, the.

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Speaker 2: Restore a nerd. You're not a nerd.

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Speaker 5: You car nerd, which we all.

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Speaker 2: Know is very cool.

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Speaker 3: They take it as a badge of honor.

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Speaker 5: Yeah it should be.

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Speaker 4: But you know, you're like, oh, this is the hounds

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Speaker 4: tooth seat that you know references this modal right exactly.

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Speaker 4: And you know, if you look at the ductail spoilerround

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Speaker 4: the Singer DLS, which is sort of their ultra rare

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Speaker 4: incredible vehicles, you'd say, well, that you know, you know,

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Speaker 4: draws some comparisons to a seventy three RS. So there's

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Speaker 4: lots of you know, references to older Porsches that you know,

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Speaker 4: bits and pieces that the customer says, well, I'd like

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Speaker 4: to have.

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Speaker 5: That in my car.

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Speaker 4: And I think what makes Singer special is that they

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Speaker 4: do it with an enormous amount of love for the

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Speaker 4: brand Porsche, an enormous amount of respect for the customer

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Speaker 4: and what they want. It's not just about slapping something

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Speaker 4: together and saying here, you know, let's make it work.

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Speaker 4: Most of these companies that perform this service don't actually

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Speaker 4: make money.

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Speaker 2: But you want to make money with that investment, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we can. The challenge is getting to scale.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was going to ask about, because hasn't

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Speaker 1: Singer paused production of the nine sixty four and we're

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Speaker 1: sort of waiting for a nine thirty Turbo and so

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Speaker 1: the DLS we're also waiting for. So are those pauses

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Speaker 1: changing how you're looking?

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Speaker 2: Wait, by the way, can I just brief pause? I

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Speaker 2: don't know nearly as much about Singer as the two

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Speaker 2: of you. Yeah, So while we're asking Tom questions, let's

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Speaker 2: also explain to me, like what is the DLS?

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Speaker 4: What it is that all the all the vehicles that

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Speaker 4: Singer offers restoration services on are based on the Porsche

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Speaker 4: nine sixty four, which was manufactured between eighty nine and

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Speaker 4: ninety four, and each of the vehicles references an older

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Speaker 4: Porsche different variants, and so the classic was the car

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Speaker 4: that was best known for Singer, you know, and their customers.

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Speaker 4: Those of were coming towards the end of that run.

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Speaker 4: I think in the next eighteen months or so, those

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Speaker 4: will all be produced. The car that references to nine

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Speaker 4: thirty Turbo, which is currently characterized as the class Turbo.

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Speaker 4: That vehicle is in production and deliveries have just started.

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Speaker 4: So Hannah, I will I will drive mine it good.

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Speaker 5: Good in July. Thanks.

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Speaker 3: Are you going up the hill?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't have my FI license, so I won't

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Speaker 4: be allowed to drive up the hill, I know, but

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Speaker 4: I'll drive it on the circuit on the Monday.

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Speaker 5: So that's like.

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Speaker 2: That's the Steve McQueen, like the widow Maker, right, it's

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Speaker 2: a widow it was.

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Speaker 1: This is only for those who don't know how to

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Speaker 1: drive exactly exactly.

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Speaker 4: You gotta wait for that boost. This is a modern version.

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Speaker 4: Boost comes on more quickly. It's it's a really very

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Speaker 4: special special car modern uh traction control and ABS and

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Speaker 4: some things that you can turn on or off that

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Speaker 4: allow the vehicle to be driven on wet roads by

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Speaker 4: an inexperienced driver with with relative safety. You know, within

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Speaker 4: the bounds of physics. We don't haven't yet invented a

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Speaker 4: car that can overcome the laws of physics.

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Speaker 5: But you know, then.

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Speaker 4: There's the DLS Turbo, which is probably you know a

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Speaker 4: few months away from having its first driveable prototype in

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Speaker 4: the hands of journalists. And then you know, some other

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Speaker 4: cars in the queue that will be unveiled, you know,

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Speaker 4: in the next.

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Speaker 5: Year or two. But the cars, the four cars that.

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Speaker 4: I mentioned in including DLS which is a full run

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Speaker 4: that's been fully delivered and is out, those four cars

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Speaker 4: will take us, you know, through the next couple of

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Speaker 4: years and beyond. I think the waiting list is still

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Speaker 4: in the vicinity of three three and a half years.

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Speaker 1: So so basically you're saying, look, the model that you

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Speaker 1: saw when you got involved with the company remains the same.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's your goal, your intent.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 4: It's you know, it's to produce something that is beyond

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Speaker 4: you know, reproach as it relates to the quality. You know,

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Speaker 4: these have to be super reliable cars. So I have

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Speaker 4: a DLS that I drove from London to LamaH for

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Speaker 4: race weekend. That's a long drive sometimes at you know,

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Speaker 4: relatively rapid pace. Uh, and you know, it's a it's

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Speaker 4: a flawless experience. I mean, these are you know, these

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Speaker 4: are cars that you can sit in for six hours.

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Speaker 2: And I see here on the internet DLS is for

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Speaker 2: Dynamics and Lightweighting Studies. That's right, and it's the one

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Speaker 2: I've seen these like, you know, on social media with

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Speaker 2: the ridiculously wide haunches.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and yeah, this one's even wider than one you're leaving.

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Speaker 2: I just don't know enough about that. And in the

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Speaker 2: world of Ploortia, there's so much to know, and there's

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Speaker 2: so many acronyms that I sometimes feel like I can't

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Speaker 2: keep up.

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Speaker 5: You can go way down the rabbit hole.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned what's next for Singer, and I

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Speaker 1: don't expect you to actually say, but is there any

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Speaker 1: room to go the way of a roof where Singer

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Speaker 1: would actually build their own cars versus reimagining.

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Speaker 5: That's a great question. I think.

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Speaker 4: I think the brand would allow Singer to pursue just

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Speaker 4: about anything it wanted to do. I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: for the time being, the company is really very focused

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Speaker 4: on executing as best it can on the strategy of

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Speaker 4: reimagining Porsches on behalf of its customers. And that's a

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Speaker 4: great business, you know, are there's a long pipeline of

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Speaker 4: things that can be done. You know, vehicles that can

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Speaker 4: be reimagined that I think, you know, would be welcome

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Speaker 4: by all Porsche enthusiasts. And look, I think the company

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Speaker 4: knows that not everyone wants a reimagined car. Some are

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Speaker 4: the purists, They want the seventy three r US exactly

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Speaker 4: as it was. Others may say, well, now I'd like

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Speaker 4: to see a different version of that car. What could

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Speaker 4: be done if you modernize it? And I think that's

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Speaker 4: there's plenty to do just with that. And our capital

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Speaker 4: was intended to help the company get to a place

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Speaker 4: where its production could support the fixed costs and the

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Speaker 4: business that are necessary to create vehicles of this quality

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Speaker 4: and with these kinds of finishes.

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Speaker 2: And I was wondering about that. How did you get

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Speaker 2: involved in what kind of investment do you have in Singer?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we were asked to refinance a facility that

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Speaker 4: they had in place from a lender, and you know,

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Speaker 4: did that and provided some other work and capital facilities

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Speaker 4: and allowed them to just take the capital, you know,

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Speaker 4: in the most efficient form possible, while allowing Rob the

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Speaker 4: founder and Maz the CEO, to really direct the strategy

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Speaker 4: of the business. They've got a spectacular team of key

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Speaker 4: executives there and some fantastic engineers that the craftsmen are unbelievable.

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Speaker 4: I've been to a lot of you know, really high

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Speaker 4: end vehicle manufacturing facilities and singers. You know, when they

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Speaker 4: look at the finishes, you look at the body work,

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Speaker 4: you look at the paint. It's as good as anybody

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Speaker 4: out there. Gorgeous and and by the way you're starting,

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Speaker 4: you know, with a company as your reference. In Porsche,

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Speaker 4: I think does it as well or better than anyone

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Speaker 4: if you look at the tolerances and Porsche panels, you know,

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Speaker 4: as compared to some other very very hand automobile companies.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's really hard to get into where Porsche

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Speaker 4: is pretty good, build quality, very good.

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Speaker 2: But how did they know to ask you? I mean, like,

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Speaker 2: were you already into Porsche?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 4: I mean was I into Porsche's Yeah? I mean I

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Speaker 4: loved cars, but I grew up not being able to

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Speaker 4: afford any. My first car was a seventy eight Corolla

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Speaker 4: SR five hatchback that was nmission of course, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Rusting away.

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Speaker 3: How much did you pay for that car?

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Speaker 5: Zero?

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Speaker 4: Because my dad said, if you can get it running,

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Speaker 4: you can drive it. And so I quickly learned how

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Speaker 4: to overhaul an engine and do breaks and a series

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Speaker 4: of other things in the driveway. Not the safest thing

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Speaker 4: in the world, you know, like in the old days

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Speaker 4: without jack stands like not smart.

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Speaker 2: But I bet you still love driving it.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I don't have it anymore. No, No, I

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Speaker 5: mean yeah, well absolutely, yeah, Like it was.

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Speaker 2: Awesome.

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Speaker 4: You taught myself how to drive a stick on it

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Speaker 4: and yeah. But I think you know, when you have

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Speaker 4: those experiences, you fall in love with cars and you

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Speaker 4: imagine that it's not that it's not the slowest thing

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Speaker 4: on the road, and you imagine that it doesn't have

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Speaker 4: to rush through you know, the door panels. But you know,

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Speaker 4: as as you get older and into life, you know,

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Speaker 4: hopefully you can afford something better. And I the weird

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Speaker 4: thing is, two weeks before the Porsche investment and became available,

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Speaker 4: our partner in the Hurts investments of firm Culture Tauris,

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Speaker 4: and one of the founders there is a guy named

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Speaker 4: Greg O'Hara, and you know, we were just talking and

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Speaker 4: he's like, is there anything you always wanted but you

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Speaker 4: wouldn't leave still buy. I'm like, yeah, there's this one

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Speaker 4: car and he's like, yeah, me too, and he's like,

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Speaker 4: you know, he said, my thing's a singer. I'm like,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, that's mine as well. And he's like,

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Speaker 4: why don't you have one? I'm like, cause I I

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Speaker 4: just can't let myself do it. It's too special, right,

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Speaker 4: It's always that thing I held on a platform. And

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Speaker 4: so literally two weeks later, totally unrelated, I get a

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Speaker 4: in a meeting or having a barbecue with somebody and

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Speaker 4: he says, oh, you must be looking at Singer, given

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Speaker 4: your view on vehicles and you know, this kind of

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Speaker 4: digital versus analog world. And I said, no, there's no

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Speaker 4: way Singer needs any financial assistants. They get a multi

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Speaker 4: year backlog and he's like, no, no, no, they're looking

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Speaker 4: for some capital. And so we get connected to the

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Speaker 4: lawyer that was representing him, and one thing led to another.

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Speaker 4: And what's nice about that is, you know, we've learned

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Speaker 4: a ton about the space and the industry, and I

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Speaker 4: think that we've been able to add value and helping

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Speaker 4: the company think strategically. And what I would say is

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Speaker 4: that I think Singers now have a view that you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe it's a little bit more of a luxury brand

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Speaker 4: than what we originally thought. And with all things luxury,

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Speaker 4: the goal is sell less for more. So let's not

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Speaker 4: push the sales higher. Let's push sales, you know, target

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Speaker 4: sales units lower. Maybe get a little bit additional price,

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Speaker 4: but make it more exclusive. And I think, you know

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Speaker 4: that's a really I hate that.

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Speaker 3: I won't love it. I love it one time.

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Speaker 2: You know, Keanu Reeves makes these arch motorcycles, of course,

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Speaker 2: and I ran into him as makes a Doukatti World

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Speaker 2: premiere in Milan a few years ago, and he was

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Speaker 2: saying he was talking to the CEO, and I kind

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Speaker 2: of barge in their conversation. He was saying, they're making

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Speaker 2: another version and the one they sells are like seventy

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Speaker 2: five grande. I can't really justify that. So I was like, oh, cool,

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Speaker 2: are you going to make one that's cheaper? And he

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Speaker 2: said no, it's going to cost twice the price. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm priced out, all righty.

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Speaker 1: I know, well that is interesting because I was going

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Speaker 1: to ask if you considered Singer to be a luxury

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Speaker 1: asset for sure, and do you value that differently than

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Speaker 1: like an infrastructure asset, for instance.

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Speaker 4: So infrastructure, you know, you know, in a reasonably low

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Speaker 4: rate environment like the one we're in now, I mean

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Speaker 4: it's not as low as it as it was, but

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Speaker 4: you know, infrastructure assets are command high multiples if the

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Speaker 4: durability of earnings is very stable. But if we say,

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Speaker 4: let's compare it to another manufacturing business, it's worth a multiple,

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Speaker 4: you know, like if a manufacturing business its ten percent

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Speaker 4: ebitdam margins is worth you know, seven times ebitdes six

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Speaker 4: seven times ebit. You know, Singers with their margins is

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Speaker 4: worth you know, mid teens, high teens, which is consistent

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Speaker 4: with where if you were to graph out not Ferrari,

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Speaker 4: ferraris a little bit higher because that brand is really

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Speaker 4: pretty spectacular. But there's a case to be made that

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Speaker 4: you know, Singer represents one of the very few luxury

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Speaker 4: brands that are based in the US, and that was

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Speaker 4: you know, really created in the US, and me Rob

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Speaker 4: done a great job of bringing that California car ethos

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Speaker 4: you know, into.

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Speaker 5: The business, and.

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Speaker 4: I think his ability to create this zeitgeist of you know,

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Speaker 4: of Singer is is really incredible. And Mas and the

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Speaker 4: team have done an amazing job of marketing it globally

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Speaker 4: and trying to do it in a way that that

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Speaker 4: respects our partners and and you know, at the same time,

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Speaker 4: you know, makes it a business that can grow and

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Speaker 4: be profitable.

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Speaker 1: This may derail our whole conversation, but I'm going to

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Speaker 1: ask it anyway, because I'm really fascinated by what you

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Speaker 1: said about, you know, sort of mentioning and verbalizing that

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Speaker 1: you had singer on a pedestal basically, and two weeks

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Speaker 1: later you have an opportunity to get involved. And I

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Speaker 1: remember in Barrie's conversation you mentioned a friend I think

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Speaker 1: of your dad's when you were very young, who asked

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Speaker 1: what you wanted and you told him, and in a

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Speaker 1: matter of months later, you were You were there, you

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Speaker 1: were in the Cayman Islands with a boat making the

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Speaker 1: amount of money that you had said, how often does

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Speaker 1: this happen to you? And what is this magic that

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Speaker 1: you are seemingly able to conjure when you speak things?

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Speaker 3: And then the universe?

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's not a superpower. Everybody has it. It's it's

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Speaker 4: about manifesting an outcome. You just you know, you have

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Speaker 4: to be open minded to it that you know there's

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Speaker 4: a god. It's going to sound super corny, but there's

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Speaker 4: a really good book called The Secret, and if you

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Speaker 4: haven't read it, you should read it. That's for everybody listening.

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Speaker 4: I don't care how successful you are, you should read

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Speaker 4: the book. And you probably if you're if you happen

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Speaker 4: to be very successful. You're probably either very luckily lucky

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Speaker 4: or you're you're already you know, using some of these skills.

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Speaker 4: I think you have to be open to, you know,

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Speaker 4: whether we call it the universe or we just call it,

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Speaker 4: you know, karma, we call it, you know, the coincidences

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Speaker 4: of life. You have to be open to allowing these

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Speaker 4: things to come into your sphere. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: as it relates to Singer, that was something we cared about,

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Speaker 4: and sure enough it presented itself. Racing was something that

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Speaker 4: we thought would be really interesting and we were like, Okay,

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Speaker 4: we're not going to go out and buy into an

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Speaker 4: F one team and pay a really high price where

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Speaker 4: we own a minority stake and our capital doesn't do anything.

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Speaker 4: You know, we want to find something where we can

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Speaker 4: actually make a difference. And sure enough, you know, that

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Speaker 4: ended up happening. So I do think these things can happen.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't always work, and sometimes bad things happen, and

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Speaker 4: you get to figure out why we don't always get

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Speaker 4: it right. You know, we certainly didn't get everything right

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Speaker 4: and hurts, but I think we've learned a lot from it.

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Speaker 4: And as you go through life, whether you're investing or

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Speaker 4: you know, working in a different job or industry. You

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Speaker 4: have to take your mistakes as a gift and learn

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Speaker 4: from them and build on them and try to do

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Speaker 4: better the next time you go out.

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Speaker 5: That's all we can do.

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Speaker 2: So how much of I mean the investment in Singer

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Speaker 2: and in Revology and Yoda, those have to be different

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Speaker 2: than the other, like purely business investments you make right

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Speaker 2: because you love this product.

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Speaker 4: It's a different The standard's the same, Yeah, the standard

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Speaker 4: is we've got to make a good return. Singer will be,

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Speaker 4: you know, a good, very.

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Speaker 5: Good investment for us. Revology will be a very good

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Speaker 5: investment for us.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: On on that topic, the reason that we pursued Revology

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Speaker 4: is we felt that there was an opportunity for them

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Speaker 4: to become one of the very first companies to pursue

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Speaker 4: production under the Fast Act in the US, which is

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Speaker 4: the formerly known as the Small Vehicle Manufacturer Law, which

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Speaker 4: you know, my guess is most.

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Speaker 5: People are like, what the heck is that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, please enlighten us.

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Speaker 4: So the fast Act has now been fully you know,

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Speaker 4: written and put into law. It is a provision that

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Speaker 4: allows a small vehicle manufacturer, which is less than five

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Speaker 4: thousand units a year to go to an original OEM

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Speaker 4: and get a license for IP for a vehicle that's

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Speaker 4: over twenty five years old, that small vehicle manufacturer that

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Speaker 4: can then reimagine and re manufacture that original car and

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Speaker 4: re imagine means tolerance exterior toalancers, tolerances within ten percent,

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Speaker 4: which is pretty wide, you know, pretty wide variants and

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Speaker 4: interior that can be entirely new. The only requirement is

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Speaker 4: that the drive train must be current era emissions compliant.

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Speaker 4: And if you if you achieve all those things, there's

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Speaker 4: no safety hym alligation, so you can use the safety

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Speaker 4: requirements of the original vehicle and you get a new

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Speaker 4: vin So now everyone says, well, that's much lower cost

437
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 4: than because you could start with a carbon tub. So

438
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 4: you could say, I'm going to make a you know, nineteen,

439
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 4: you know, seventy Ford Bronco start with a carbon tub.

440
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 4: Very easy to manufacture off a carbon tup versus one

441
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 4: of the rolling chassis that you can buy because you

442
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 4: have a really rigid frame, it's you know, everything's perfectly square.

443
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 4: The problem is you've got to go through the process

444
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 4: of getting current your emissions compliant drive train and then

445
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 4: incorporating it into that and then getting all the engineering

446
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 4: right and making sure that you have a good, safe

447
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 4: product even though you don't you know, you don't may

448
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,199
Speaker 4: not have the requirements.

449
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 5: It's still and Ford could say, well, Ford's got to

450
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 5: believe in you enough to allow you to do it.

451
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 5: And I use Ford as an example.

452
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 4: You use any any oem a car over twenty five

453
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 4: years old, which brings you, by the way, it's scary

454
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 4: as it's to say, you know, into the late nineties,

455
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 4: so there's a whole plathora of really cool cars that

456
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 4: you could do well.

457
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's interesting that you chose the

458
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 2: Bronco because I know a lot of people are skeptical

459
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 2: of these resto mod companies because there's a whole wave

460
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 2: of Bronco knockoff garages among them that fall apart. And

461
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: Hannah and I talk about this a lot because I'm like,

462
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, Revology is a different story because they're

463
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: building it from the ground up. They have actual engineers

464
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 2: that used to work at Ford's Special Vehicle Unit, who

465
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 2: are you know, have built their own factory in Orlando,

466
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 2: so so help us. Obviously you're gonna you're obviously you're

467
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: talking about to convince.

468
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 5: Me, yes, yes, I would say we've we have looked at.

469
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 4: A great number of and I'm going to use the

470
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 4: word restomode as a non pejorative term to say, you know,

471
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 4: it captures that whole and to clarify and yeah, and

472
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 4: just say, like anyone that takes an old car and

473
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 4: makes it new, newer, you know, reimagines it, rebuilds it,

474
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 4: whatever you want, however you want to describe it. They're

475
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 4: not all created equal, and we've looked at a lot

476
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 4: of them. And I would say, I'll say two things. One,

477
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 4: Revology does things very differently than nearly all, not all,

478
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 4: but nearly all of the other manufacturers out there, and

479
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 4: they do some things that are in fact different than

480
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 4: every other, uh one of those companies. The second thing

481
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 4: is that for all these businesses, you know, they take

482
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 4: a deposit from the customer, they then go up of

483
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 4: the car. There's there's a sequence of payments and that

484
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 4: I delivered car. When you take a deposit from a

485
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 4: customer upfront, it's you know, you put that on your

486
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 4: balance sheet and the account is working capital.

487
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 5: And they will all say, we.

488
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 4: Don't have debt well, you don't have debt, but you

489
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 4: have a payment that you owe, or you have a

490
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: product future product that you ow to the customer. It's

491
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 4: the same thing as debt. When you deliver the customer,

492
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 4: you've got to repay it by way of you know,

493
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 4: releasing that off your balance sheet. And when we saw

494
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 4: the huge explosion and demand for these cars post COVID

495
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 4: and kind of late twenty through you know, mid early

496
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 4: to mid twenty twenty two, demand goes through the roof,

497
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 4: all these deposits flow in, they build the cars, then

498
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 4: the deposits leave the balance sheet. What happens, Well, it's

499
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 4: like you have to repay a bunch of debt and

500
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 4: if you haven't played, if you haven't planned for that,

501
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 4: that release of working capital is very, very difficult to

502
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 4: manage for a small company, and so a lot of

503
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 4: these businesses out there are struggling to remain solvent in

504
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 4: the context of a world where demand is shrunk, you know,

505
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 4: kind of coming back to trend line, which means sales

506
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 4: for the next over the course of the last year

507
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 4: and probably for the next year or two will be

508
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 4: lower than a steady state number of sales.

509
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: So it's a target rich environment for you.

510
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 4: It is, but most of these companies don't. They're not

511
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 4: going to make it because they haven't invested in the

512
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 4: business and they don't have a differentiated product. So I

513
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 4: would agree with Hannah that, you know, for many of

514
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 4: these these companies that are they're really just large garages

515
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 4: and they've they've got economies of scale in the sense

516
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 4: that they're doing the same thing over and over, but

517
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,239
Speaker 4: they haven't done the engineering work. Revology is in fact, very,

518
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 4: very different. And Hannah, if you were to, you know,

519
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 4: visit Revology, just do.

520
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 5: One simple thing. Just close the door.

521
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 4: Oh really, just close the door own. I own two

522
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 4: nineteen sixties Mustangs. Both are original that have been restored.

523
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 4: They're in great condition. But if you close the door

524
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 4: of those cars and you close the door of a Revology, that's.

525
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 5: Not the same thing.

526
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 3: I look forward to doing that.

527
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's good, and it's a good you know, I mean,

528
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 4: and then it's you know, when you put it into gear,

529
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 4: what happens, right, you get that lurch against your brake.

530
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 4: Pet you know, we all we've all driven those old cars,

531
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 4: and that's very Yeah, it's very common. I mean, I

532
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 4: gotta you know, I always joke. My wife's got a

533
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 4: fifty sixty Bird and I'm like, it's the most deadly

534
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 4: vehicle I've ever driven. I mean, it's a complete death trap.

535
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 4: It's got a metal steering wheel that's right about you know,

536
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: jaw high.

537
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: You know, it makes you feel alive.

538
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 5: You feel very alive, that's for sure.

539
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 4: But those are you know, those are very realistic experience

540
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 4: that are consistent with the time that those vehicles were

541
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 4: engineered and made, because you know, look, it was just

542
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 4: a different era. It was this seventy year old cars.

543
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 5: The Revology vehicles don't feel like that.

544
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 4: They don't drive like that. They don't they're not durable

545
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 4: like that. They're they're modern pieces of machinery in every sense.

546
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 4: They just look old and that's what makes them so fantastic.

547
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 2: So how did you find? Tom Scarpello is the guy

548
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: who presents the car, He's the founder. He also presents

549
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 2: the car on the Leno clip, And if I were

550
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: doing it, I would sell it like hotcakes, you know.

551
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: But he's clearly an engineer because he's going into very

552
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: minute detail of like how he created the door handle.

553
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 4: You know, if you were the same Tom, you know,

554
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 4: is his personality. It's not the same as a rob

555
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 4: At singer, but they're similar in the sense that they

556
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 4: don't sell their product.

557
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 5: The product sells the product.

558
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 4: And they just tell you their vision. You know, each

559
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 4: comes in from a slightly different perspective. And rob as

560
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 4: an artist and very much into the aesthetics, and Tom,

561
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 4: you know, as an engineer and very much into what

562
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 4: makes his cars truly spectacular from an engineering perspective. Both

563
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 4: there's lots of overlap, by the way, with each of them,

564
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,239
Speaker 4: and so I think, did you book up with them

565
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 4: at the same time, No, it was later we we

566
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 4: developed a thesis more fully that these that these cars

567
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 4: that inspire passion would continue to grow an interest, and

568
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 4: we went out looking for another company to invest in,

569
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 4: in one that we thought we could help become the

570
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 4: first and potentially only, you know, fast act manufacturer, and

571
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 4: Revology was the only one that we found that that

572
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 4: that we thought had what it would take to be

573
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 4: able to produce those vehicles.

574
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 2: But there's no one else taking advantage of that long.

575
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 5: I mean, there's others that will try.

576
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 4: We didn't find anybody that we felt had everything it takes,

577
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: and I don't want to, you know, out of respect

578
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 4: for what Revology's done. I won't I won't say chapter

579
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 4: and verse what it takes, but it's it's a lot,

580
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 4: it's a lot of capital, it's a lot of engineering expertise,

581
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 4: a lot of design expertise, and it's and it is

582
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 4: a fantastic relationship with whichever OEM you know you'd like

583
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 4: to get a license agreement, they have to believe in you.

584
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 4: It's sort of like, you know, any business relationship, you

585
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 4: got to make sure your counterparty is going to be

586
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 4: there and be around. And we hope that part of

587
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 4: what we bring to the table is the financial stability

588
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 4: to allow the counterparts to say, Okay, these guys will.

589
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 5: Be here and they can do a good job and

590
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 5: the customers don't need to worry about the deposits.

591
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 3: What is in it for Ford?

592
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: Obviously there's a licensing agreement that I'm sure is it

593
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: very lucrative? Is it a little bit lucrative? You know,

594
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: how does this benefit forward?

595
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 4: I think I think it would be fair to say

596
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: that it's very beneficial to the brand. You know, you're celebrating,

597
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 4: you know, a vehicle that is decades old. Obviously, you know,

598
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 4: whatever vehicle they decide to do with, whichever OEM they

599
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 4: decide to do it with. You know, you're celebrating that

600
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 4: original vehicle in a very special way, and it brings

601
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 4: it to a group of consumers that really aren't going

602
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 4: to do that on their own. You know, the person

603
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 4: who buys a Revology Mustang, you know, into into six

604
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 4: figures for.

605
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 5: The car fully out three hundred.

606
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, they're not out shopping for It's not like

607
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 4: they're choosing that over you know.

608
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 3: It's not cannibalizing anything nothing.

609
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 4: In fact, they're more likely you know, to bring up

610
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 4: their local dealer and ask for the new g T

611
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 4: three Mustang, which they won't get because they are none available.

612
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 4: But that, but I think there it attaches them to

613
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 4: a brand. They're probably more likely to go out in

614
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 4: auction and look for, you know, one of the last

615
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 4: two generations at GT forties. I just think that, you know,

616
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 4: all of a sudden you say, oh, I've got this

617
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 4: thing and i'd like to have, you know, the OEM's

618
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 4: version of a great car, you know, the kind of

619
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 4: greatest of great cars as well. So I think it's

620
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 4: very very beneficial to the brand. I think it enhances

621
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 4: the brand. You know, I would tell you that in

622
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 4: the case of Singer, there's been luxury brand businesses you

623
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 4: know that that have taken an interest in Singer and said,

624
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 4: you know, there's there's got to be, you know, some

625
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 4: value here that can be unlocked. And I think that

626
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 4: shows that you are in fact creating something that's luxury.

627
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: And you you mean like carrying or LVMH is I

628
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: just mean that I won't interesting specifically, that's what you mean.

629
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, in the realm of non auto luxury type companies,

630
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 4: and you know, because they whether it's watches or what

631
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 4: have you, that say, you know, this is something that's

632
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 4: really interesting, and so you can think of really creative

633
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 4: partnerships to pursue that celebrate both brands at the same time.

634
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 4: And there's lots of that in racing and an auto

635
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 4: generally speaking, right, I mean you look at the brands

636
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: that are on the side of modern race cars, you know,

637
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 4: particularly in F one, which I think from a brand.

638
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: Value, I want to ask you about Formula one.

639
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean F one is it's fantastic. It's I

640
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 4: watch it every weekend, like it's not like it's a

641
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 4: great surprise how things shake out. But I think what's

642
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 4: great about it is that you are you know you're

643
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 4: watching these masterful pieces of machinery. You know that you

644
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 4: are attached to something that's it's about the overall experience,

645
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 4: like going enough one race isn't really about like being

646
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 4: glued to the race. It's about everything else that goes

647
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 4: on there. And I happen to think that the most

648
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 4: underappreciated racing brand in the world is WEK World in

649
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 4: Derman's Championship, where we have an investment in one of

650
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 4: the teams.

651
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 5: And I'll tell you why.

652
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 4: I say that people watch sports and they get attached

653
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: to sports for two reasons. You know, it's the tribalism element,

654
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 4: where you can attach to something that makes you feel

655
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: part of a community. Okay, I'll get to the tribalism

656
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 4: in a second. And what WEC has the second is

657
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 4: uncertainty of outcome. Okay, there is no sporting event in

658
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 4: the world there's more than certainly of out come. On

659
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 4: the twenty four hours of Lama, you don't have the

660
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 4: slightest idea who's going to win that race. You can

661
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 4: be twenty three hours into watching it you have no

662
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 4: idea is going to win. There's nothing else that goes

663
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 4: on for that duration, maybe cricket, but you know that

664
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 4: that has zero certainty on how things are going to

665
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 4: play out. And on the tribalism side, what's happened with

666
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 4: the new l m D and l M D H

667
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 4: entrance is it's brought in all the OEMs. So you

668
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 4: have the major major manufacturers are getting involved and putting

669
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 4: cars forward.

670
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 5: You know, you've got Ferrari Portie.

671
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 4: For Ford in the GT three series, Lamborghini, We've got

672
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 4: Cadillac in WEC and and the list goes on and on,

673
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 4: and others that are lined up to come in that

674
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,719
Speaker 4: that I won't name because I'm not sure whether it's

675
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 4: public or not, but it's going to be fantastic, right

676
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 4: And so you've got this incredible grid. By the way,

677
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 4: you can be a customer as we are currently, meaning

678
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 4: you know, you go buy a car and hire somebody

679
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 4: to race it for you, and you can actually get

680
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 4: into the race, not as a driver, but as a

681
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 4: as a you know, as a as a participant and

682
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 4: bring your own sponsors. And I just think it's an

683
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 4: incredibly undervalued assets coming to CODA for Labor Day weekend

684
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 4: that encourage people to check it out.

685
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 5: It's pretty cool.

686
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: Twenty four hours of CODA.

687
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 4: CODA is going to be six if I'm not mistaken,

688
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 4: like I see. So there's different races, different durations.

689
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I watch only Moto GP and sometimes Formula One,

690
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 2: but I don't have time to I don't have time

691
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: to devote any more than that because I'm already watching

692
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: you know, practice qualifying sprint race.

693
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 5: But it's only eight races a year.

694
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: I only know Lama and Daytona.

695
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Daytona's part of IMSA and Seabring's part of IMSA,

696
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 4: and then but you know there's a race at SPA.

697
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: Wait, so those are different than we different is It's

698
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: very confusing, I know, be underappreciated.

699
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 4: Maybe that's why I think WEK is like International imps

700
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 4: US and WEC has the you know, it's one of

701
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 4: the three race races in the world is Indy, Lama

702
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 4: and Monaco, and you know they call that the Triple

703
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 4: Crown on right.

704
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: And race Monico is more exciting in WECK form than

705
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: it is in F one form.

706
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 4: We don't race Monaco, but I promise you the races

707
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 4: are more exciting than than Monico has been the last

708
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 4: few years. But you know, to see a race at

709
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 4: SPA and you know the cars are you know, bombing

710
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 4: around for six hours NonStop, so roughly four hours as

711
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 4: long as a as an F one race. That that's

712
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: pretty incredible event, and it is. It is very special.

713
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 4: You know, Imla is always a special event. Fuji by

714
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 4: Rain and Qatar and sal Palla this year as well.

715
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 4: So lots of really cool destined obviously, you know, Circuit

716
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 4: of the Americas in Austin and so you've got all

717
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 4: of You've got all those great circuits and there will

718
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 4: be more to come. But I think, as I said earlier,

719
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 4: what really makes it fun to watch is the involvement

720
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: of these great manufacturers. It's true sports car racing. In

721
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 4: many cases, you can or will soon be able to

722
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 4: buy a variant of the wet car for the road.

723
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 4: It won't be a hybrid, but you know, I know

724
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 4: at least two manufacturers that are going to offer the

725
00:34:58,800 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 4: vehicles for sale.

726
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 2: On a second they I don't understand exactly, but don't

727
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: they have like a more stock car entrant and then

728
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: Total Prototype and then.

729
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 4: Yep, so there's more stock cars like the GT three class, right,

730
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 4: So that's almost exactly what you can drive in the road.

731
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: So if you can buy the Mustang, if you get

732
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: the g T gives.

733
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 4: You Farley gives you the nod. God, God, I love

734
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 4: Jim Farley'd love to get that car. The you know,

735
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 4: in the case of of Porsche, it's the g T

736
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 4: three R S, which is a tough get, but it's

737
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 4: a very special car. I mean it's a road car

738
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 4: with effectively DRS. That's pretty cool.

739
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 5: And then you've got the LM H and l M

740
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 5: d H classes, which are the hypercar class.

741
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: That's what you guys are in.

742
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 5: That's what we're in.

743
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: So how do you create value out of this admittedly

744
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: obscure racing series for Americans?

745
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 5: Is the key.

746
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 4: It's it's got a good fill. I mean, you know,

747
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 4: you got if you were to go to Lama, you

748
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 4: would come away with a very different appreciation of.

749
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: Everybody says that.

750
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 3: People yes, but that, but I mean no, I haven't everybody.

751
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 3: I don't want to go. No, it's not spectator friendly.

752
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 3: It rains every year.

753
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 4: It's holy your camp, let's be honest. Okay, Hannah is

754
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 4: not going to end up at Laman a tent. Okay,

755
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 4: Like that's probably not the way you're going to experience it.

756
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 4: And the people who do that love it.

757
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 5: But I but what that is not for me.

758
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 4: What you what we do is we get like, you know,

759
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 4: really nice RVs. If you want to stand at State.

760
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 2: I could see Hannah there in like an airstream like nice.

761
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: It's we work that out then I will be happy

762
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: to intend. But the fact remains, though this is so

763
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: European and really Formula one has grown in the US.

764
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 4: But it's taking because well two things. I think we'll

765
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 4: come back to that in a second. The way you

766
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 4: do it is through promotion. And so you know, why

767
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 4: do we have Brady brand on the side of our

768
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 4: car because you know we pick up you know, tens

769
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 4: of millions of impressions every race because you know Tom's

770
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 4: involved in it. You know it's Hurts involved in it. Well,

771
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 4: because it's great content. I mean it is really cool content.

772
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 4: You know, people walk through an airport and they see

773
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 4: one of our cars sitting there, like that's kind of

774
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 4: a cool thing to run into. They always attract a

775
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 4: giant crowd. You're creating great content, great interest that we

776
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 4: run promotions for the customers to gain access and go

777
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 4: to Lama. We had a bunch of them there this year.

778
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 4: That's a really neat thing. All of a sudden, You've

779
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 4: got a trip across the Atlantic to watch a race,

780
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 4: and I promise you everybody who goes to Lama comes

781
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 4: away with an incredible impression. Ask Lebron James what he

782
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 4: thought after he went last year. I won't spoil it,

783
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 4: but I promise you.

784
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:30,439
Speaker 5: Will get again.

785
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: How long did he stay at the track?

786
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 4: He was there for the entirety of the first day,

787
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 4: so okayac and it was you know, Tom's been there

788
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 4: for the full weekend.

789
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 5: It's a it's a grip.

790
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: Were there. Were you there a couple weeks ago?

791
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 4: I was, Yeah, we stayed for the whole time. You know,

792
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 4: being out at the end of the Mozon straight, you

793
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,479
Speaker 4: know when the cars are under heavy breaking at that turn,

794
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 4: that right hand or at the end of one of

795
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 4: his canes and the brakes are glowing bright red and

796
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 4: yes it's drizzling out and you know, you get a

797
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 4: cocktail on your hand at two in the morning. It's

798
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 4: not the worst thing in the world.

799
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: No tall way of Stella.

800
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: By the way, this reminds me Tom, do you run

801
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: your own Instagram. No, well, I saw it on your instagra.

802
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 4: I have a public Instagram that we created for the team,

803
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 4: because there's a funny story about that.

804
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 5: I have a private Instagram.

805
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 4: I've got like a whopping you know, one hundred followers

806
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 4: or something, and and I started getting all these follower requests.

807
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 4: Somebody figured out I think I had been tagged in something,

808
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 4: and so I got all these follow requests and I

809
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 4: get this notification from Instagram that said your account's under review.

810
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 4: And so I'm like, oh, the gift to give all

811
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 4: this information, give all the information. And fifteen minutes later,

812
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 4: like your account is permanently deleted, and I'm like, what happened?

813
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 4: They said you violated customer or community standards and I

814
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 4: was like, what does that mean? They said, well, you're

815
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 4: impersonating a public figure.

816
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: What impersonating yourself?

817
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess, And because in one city in England,

818
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 4: I'm a public figure, so and so I had to

819
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 4: delete all the requests and then we created the other account.

820
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 2: But yeah, anyway, the city is Birmingham, by the ways.

821
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: Who because you own a soccer team there.

822
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, our firm made an investment in a Nighthead

823
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 4: and I'm the chairman of the club.

824
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 5: And that's a fun thing.

825
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 4: By the way, it's back the same analog digital thing.

826
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 4: It's kind of the ultimate form of analog entertainment. It's

827
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 4: why we, you know, got into sport, and cars and

828
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 4: racing are the same thing. But I listen, I think

829
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 4: that there's a lot of there's a lot of things

830
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 4: that draw people into this and make it interesting.

831
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 5: And you asked about F one.

832
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 4: Yes, Drive to Survive had an unbelievable impact on it.

833
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 4: But I was in a meeting gosh, it was two

834
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 4: years ago now with an F one team principle. We

835
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 4: were talking about this exact topic and the rise of

836
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 4: F one and it was following the Goodwood Festival of Speed,

837
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 4: where my son and I go every year, and I

838
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 4: told him he could attend the meeting because he wanted

839
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 4: to see this. You know, we get to go see

840
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 4: the whole facility. And he's sitting in the back of

841
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 4: the room and I said, don't say a word, and

842
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 4: so we're going through the meeting and then I said, well,

843
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 4: I think there's one other thing that led to rise

844
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 4: in popularity of F one. And I said, if it's okay,

845
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 4: I want to ask my son for his input. So

846
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 4: I turned to him and he looks at me and

847
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 4: he goes, is it okay for me to speak now?

848
00:39:58,760 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 4: I'm like, yes, it's it gave you to speak now.

849
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 4: And I said, Jack, you know, how many do you

850
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 4: watch F one? He said every weekend watches Qualifying watches

851
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 4: the Race. I said, how many episodes of Drive to

852
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 4: Survive you've seen? He said zero? And I said, well,

853
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 4: what got you into it? And he sort of sheepishly said,

854
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 4: you know the game, the video game. And something occurred

855
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 4: to me and I'd heard him talk about this before.

856
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 4: You know, if you're a hockey fan, you can play

857
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 4: street hockey or football. Plan you can sidelot football or baseball.

858
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 4: You can play whiffle ball or you.

859
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 5: Know, soccer. You just have anything round right racing.

860
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 4: It's very hard to make the connection as a fan

861
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 4: and the way that young people have become fans by

862
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 4: playing the sport.

863
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 5: These games are so realistic that they can. And I

864
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 5: will tell you having.

865
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 4: Had my son, and you know, with me in a

866
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 4: car and a track in the right seat, he knows

867
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 4: the track better than I do, and I'm the one driving.

868
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 4: He knows my break points better. He knows when I

869
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 4: should be on the gas better than I can, because

870
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 4: he's driven the circuit let's say, a hundred times to

871
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 4: my five, and on a SIM and even though his

872
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 4: sim is relatively basic, his his intuition for the track,

873
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 4: even though he's not been in the seat, is pretty incredible.

874
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 4: That connection to the sport is incredible. And I think

875
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 4: what other race series have lost out on is the

876
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 4: inability to develop a product that is that realistic. And

877
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 4: they should because gaming's not going anywhere, and it's a

878
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 4: great way to draw fans in. And as much as

879
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 4: you say you don't have time for another race series,

880
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 4: we all do. We all have more time to consume,

881
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 4: you know, these types of media. And by the way,

882
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 4: you know, with the rise of AI, it's going to

883
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 4: continue to create more and more time quote unquote for people,

884
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 4: which is why we'll look for more experiential things to do. So,

885
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 4: you know, I think, you know, we're at the beginning

886
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 4: stages of a continued, long rise and the interest in

887
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 4: sport broadly defined, or at least I hope that's the

888
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 4: case given some of our investments. But you know, I

889
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 4: think all this stuff is fantastic to see young people

890
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 4: engaged in vehicles that are not the most modern, not

891
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 4: the fast accelerating, not the technological marvels that we get

892
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 4: out of you know, today's key EV makers, but you know,

893
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 4: but have something that's really pretty incredible.

894
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 5: Is is great.

895
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: I think I'm very curious you mentioned very briefly hybrids.

896
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: Obviously these cars racing are hybrid vehicles. And we've talked

897
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: a lot about how you're going into ices. As things

898
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: tend to move toward electric vehicles for commuting, where do

899
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: hybrids fall into that spectrum. I used to think they're

900
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: a bit of a band aid, a bridge towards evs.

901
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 3: Now it seems like maybe they're here to stay.

902
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 5: Buie.

903
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 2: We both spent the weekend driving hybrids or last weekend

904
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: I was in uh driving the new hybrid, Yeah, and

905
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: I was this weekend driving the Corvette Era, which.

906
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, that Corvette's amazing. That Porsche is incredible. There's lots

907
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 4: of other great hybrids. It's a difficult technology to master,

908
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 4: but the best manufacturers clearly are getting it right. I

909
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 4: think hybrids are here to stay because I think the

910
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 4: transition to evs is just to get all of the

911
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 4: rolling stock converted over.

912
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 5: It's going to take a long time. Is that where

913
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 5: it's going. I do believe that that's where we will

914
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 5: end up.

915
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 4: It's going to be complicated by the fact that it's

916
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 4: going to be hard to get enough electricity available, you know,

917
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 4: with the competing excess demand coming not just from consumers

918
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 4: and the growth there and households, but also electric vehicles

919
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 4: and other forms of mobility AI and compute power. So

920
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot of reasons why the transition

921
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 4: may be slower, and to the extent that it is

922
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 4: in fact slower, hybrids.

923
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 5: Play a crucial role there. They also offer a.

924
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,959
Speaker 4: Driving experience that is not as abrupt as going into

925
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 4: an ev directly, so you know, for the average consumer,

926
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 4: it's an easier way for them to get into it.

927
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 4: And look, I mean from a performance perspective, you get

928
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 4: a lot, you get the you know, you still get

929
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 4: many of the attributes of an IC that we all love,

930
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 4: right the sound, the vibration, and you get the excess performance.

931
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 4: My personal view on all of that is, I think

932
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 4: we've kind of we've more or less reached the limits

933
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 4: of performance. Yes, cars will get faster both in acceleration

934
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 4: and top speed.

935
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 2: They will, but who cares it doesn't really mean speed

936
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: has become commoditized, right, It doesn't matter if you can

937
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 2: go zero to sixty and two and a half seconds,

938
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 2: because everyone can.

939
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 4: My tussle was, you know, one to nine, which means

940
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 4: that you when you're in an intersection, you can go

941
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 4: sixty before you hit the other crosswalk, right, Like, you

942
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: don't really need to go any faster than that.

943
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: But it's not as much fun as going zero to

944
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: sixty and six seconds in something from the seventies and.

945
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 4: The if you're well the T bird, that's, yeah, that's

946
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 4: exciting eleven seconds. But if you're rowing through the gears

947
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 4: and you want to get every shift right, and more importantly,

948
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 4: if you're under heavy breaking and you're getting your down

949
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 4: shifts right, like, that's a special feeling, and not everyone

950
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 4: cares about that.

951
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 5: I suspect that people.

952
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 4: Listening to this probably you know, nodding their heads in

953
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 4: a sent that's why we drive these old cars. And

954
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 4: there's a whole plethora of old cars that I would,

955
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 4: you know, love to own and drive regularly. I don't

956
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 4: have the time to do it, but I just think

957
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 4: it'd be fantastic, And I don't think that's going away

958
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 4: you know, so I think there's a spot for all

959
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 4: of this. And listen, it's not the worst thing in

960
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 4: the world for these old cars to be repurposed into

961
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 4: you know, and and restored into vehicles that are maintained.

962
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 4: And I say that because, like, you know, why do

963
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 4: we want to throw everything away? There's no reason for that.

964
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 4: You know, they could be something to bring great joy

965
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 4: and can be reimagined, re restored, what have you.

966
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 2: I recently talked to at Greenwich concoor. I went to

967
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 2: a really cool showing and a bunch of the guys

968
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 2: there had c two corvettes and they all said, it's

969
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 2: like driving a truck, Like it's not a great driving experience. Yeah,

970
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: so if someone could reimagine that.

971
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 5: Vehicle that that would be pretty amazing.

972
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 4: The one thing I'd say on the new evs is

973
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 4: they are actually a step stone to fully autonomous mobility.

974
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 4: Like that's really what they represent. And I know there's

975
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 4: you know, for a last year and a half, there's

976
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 4: been lots of naysayers and the tides turned a little

977
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 4: bit on that. There's been some positive articles recently, but like,

978
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 4: if you really doubt how close we are get in

979
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 4: a Tesla with the most updated beta version of the

980
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 4: self driving software and tell me we're not close. It's

981
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 4: years away, not decades away, if not closer than that.

982
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 4: And the reason that evs play an important role is

983
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 4: you really can't have an IC or a hybrid that

984
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 4: autonomously moves people.

985
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 5: And when we get to full autonomy, that is ecologically

986
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,439
Speaker 5: by far the Holy grill, that's the best place.

987
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 2: It's eficient in terms of safety.

988
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 5: I mean that safety.

989
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 2: To me, that's the biggest thing because how many people

990
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 2: die in car accidents. You know, we talk about all

991
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: the other things that kill you, and car accidents are

992
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: way up there at.

993
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 5: Specially top of the list, especially for young people.

994
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 4: And so you know, when we move that way, there's

995
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 4: lots of we spent some time and the lots of

996
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 4: economic advantages to.

997
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 5: Get unlocked if we can.

998
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 4: If we can figure that out, AI will certainly hasten

999
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 4: you know, the arrival those things.

1000
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 5: But again that what does that do?

1001
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 4: It frees up time to do other things, if your

1002
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 4: commute time, remember most people don't live in big urban

1003
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 4: areas like we do. And and it probably drives yourself

1004
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 4: to work because she's la, Yes, I.

1005
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 5: Did you know? So we we don't.

1006
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 4: And you know, but elsewhere in the world people drive

1007
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 4: themselves to work, So it's lost time. I think it's

1008
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 4: forty two minutes or fifty minutes a day for the

1009
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 4: average American worker. You know, if you are working in

1010
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 4: that time and you're productive, you know, then you you

1011
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 4: can free up time elsewhere. Maybe every Friday is off,

1012
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 4: or maybe Fridays every Friday is a half day. Well,

1013
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 4: what are you going to do with that time? Well,

1014
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 4: maybe you're restoring an old vehicle yourself, or maybe you're

1015
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 4: driving an older So I.

1016
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 2: Could sleep for fun, because I do drive an hour

1017
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: and a half. Yeah, back and forth in Westchester, and

1018
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 2: on a lot of days, I'm so wiped out. I

1019
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 2: have a couple of little kids. I just want to sleep,

1020
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 2: and I still have to stay awake and brave the

1021
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: traffic up the major DTA, And it's that's that's what

1022
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: I would do.

1023
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: What is the biggest obstacle right now? You say we're close, Tom.

1024
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: Is it a technology thing, Is it a money thing?

1025
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 5: Is it a legal regulatory Yeah?

1026
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 4: I think that it really depends on the regulatory environment

1027
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 4: we have. I'd be foolish to say anything other than that,

1028
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 4: there's no question that the technology is safer than humans today.

1029
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 4: It's already achieved that, like it's not, it's not really debatable.

1030
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 4: The cases where there's an accident make all the headlines,

1031
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 4: but we don't. You know, we don't make front page

1032
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 4: news every time somebody does in a car the United States,

1033
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 4: and it happens unfortunately, many many, many many times per day.

1034
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 4: And so you know, the cruises of the world, the

1035
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 4: way moss of the world, the testas of the world

1036
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 4: have already done.

1037
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 5: Better than a human.

1038
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 4: They will continue to do better than humans, and so

1039
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 4: we will have safer vehicles. The big thing that's standing

1040
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 4: the way right now is you know that getting the

1041
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 4: technology to the point where it's really useful in that

1042
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 4: you know, those those key edge cases and then you know,

1043
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 4: how do you roll out that that rolling stuff to

1044
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 4: make it available to move people around? So it's coming.

1045
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 4: You know, it's a good thing. I don't think it's

1046
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 4: I don't think we all need to be afraid of it.

1047
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 2: The charging infrastructure is my big problem. I mean, it'll

1048
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 2: last last week. I had a great time in this

1049
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 2: GMC hummer last week and it has like four hundred

1050
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: miles of range, But I got it down to zero,

1051
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 2: and when I was looking for charging stations they were

1052
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 2: all like broken or like no longer on anyway. I

1053
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 2: think the infrastructure is what really needs to happen.

1054
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's got to get better.

1055
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 4: There's also you were you know, I think again we

1056
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 4: come back to what will they actually be used for.

1057
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 4: It's the moving people from point A to point B

1058
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 4: on regular routes, so that's your commuting work. You're never

1059
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 4: going to run out of charge if you have a

1060
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 4: you know, think if you have a gas station in

1061
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 4: your home, which is really what you have when you

1062
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 4: own an EV and you install the charging.

1063
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 5: Hardware, so you know, we'll get past that.

1064
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 4: The biggest hurdle, if you will, to chart new charging

1065
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 4: technology is the is the electricity infrastructure.

1066
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 5: It's not that companies aren't willing to install it, they

1067
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 5: can't pull the power that they need.

1068
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: Let's talk about a little bit about cars that you like,

1069
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: because I thought the Masters in Business that you did

1070
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: was really inspirational because you tell your origin story and

1071
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: you're not someone who was born on third base, right,

1072
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 2: you had to work to get there, and you mentioned

1073
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: the Corolla and you couldn't afford to get anything else.

1074
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: But eventually you go to you know, credit Sueez, you

1075
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: go to Goldman Sachs. You start your own shop and

1076
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: now you have the financial wherewithal to pick up a

1077
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: few of those things. And you know, it's like collecting art,

1078
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: it's not so what have you got that you like?

1079
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 2: And also do you do you buy them as an

1080
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: investment or do you buy them because you just really

1081
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 2: they speak to your heart.

1082
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 4: Now, I buy what I want to drive and own

1083
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 4: for a long period of time, but I don't. I

1084
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 4: haven't gone bananas and building out a collection, and I've

1085
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 4: still my Holy Grail cars other than Singers still on

1086
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 4: my list because it's good motivation for me. It's just

1087
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 4: the way that I maybe my brain works and what

1088
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 4: causes me to be motivated. So you know what I

1089
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 4: like to own an early seventies you know, Daytona Spider.

1090
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's like way up the list.

1091
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 4: The car for me that was my Everyone kind of

1092
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 4: had their car as a teenager, and I had one

1093
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 4: car that was like I thought was the greatest thing

1094
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 4: ever ever ever. I just thought it was the most

1095
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 4: amazing vehicle and it passed me walking home from soccer

1096
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 4: practice one day in my hometown of Franklin, Massachusetts on

1097
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 4: Lincoln Street, and it was a Kuontash and I couldn't

1098
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 4: believe I saw it. And so there were two things

1099
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 4: that I that I had always seen. One was the

1100
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,959
Speaker 4: sixty minute special on the Cuntash, which if you haven't watched,

1101
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 4: you should watch. It was an incredible segment. I watched

1102
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 4: it so much that the VHF tape like just wore out.

1103
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 4: And the other was obviously the opening sequence and Cannonball

1104
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 4: run right, which is just you know, like you see that,

1105
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 4: You're like, how is that not the greatest thing ever.

1106
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 4: I remember talking to my son about favorite cars and

1107
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 4: he's got his favorites and I said, no, but the

1108
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 4: Coontash is so special and he's like, oh, Lamborghini.

1109
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 5: Dad.

1110
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 4: Really'm like yeah, And so I said, all right. Well,

1111
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 4: we went to a car show and it was an

1112
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 4: outdoor show and we were coming up. I said, okay,

1113
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 4: there's five coon Tashes over there, and he's like where,

1114
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 4: and I said over here, come on, let's walk over.

1115
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 4: And we're walking over and he doesn't say anything for

1116
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 4: like ten seconds of walking. He just looks at me

1117
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 4: and he goes, Okay, I get it, and I'm like, yeah,

1118
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 4: like it's like a space ship sitting there right here.

1119
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,919
Speaker 4: It is, you know, you know, fifty plus years later

1120
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 4: and it still looks so unbelievable. So that's one that

1121
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 4: would be incredible to own, like a you know, early eighties.

1122
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: Oh you haven't got one. No, no, no, dude, there

1123
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 2: was a time when those were going for like thirty grand.

1124
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: No no.

1125
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,240
Speaker 4: I remember, like right after the financial crisis, really good examples.

1126
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 4: We're just over one hundred grand, and I remember looking

1127
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 4: at someone, I'm like, I really should buy this, Like

1128
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 4: I've always want to own this car, and I don't

1129
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 4: think it's ever going to be this price again. It

1130
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 4: was a really by the way, bought a zillion things

1131
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 4: to them and made more money than buying the car.

1132
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 2: But you were right, isn't that when you started your business?

1133
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 5: Was when I started my b So you were buying things.

1134
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 5: I was buying things. Yeah.

1135
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 4: I don't know if I but we didn't buy a

1136
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 4: lot of things that had tenfold returns in this period

1137
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 4: of time. But there's a lot of other cars out there.

1138
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 4: I mean, I've got you know, there's some great examples

1139
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 4: that I have today. I have a sevent eighteen spider

1140
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 4: RS that I just got. It was one of the

1141
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 4: first that came into the US. Like, that's a really

1142
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 4: special car. Yes, it's a really Porsche. I think just

1143
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 4: hit the ball out of the park on that one,

1144
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 4: because it's it's a great driver's car.

1145
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 5: It's not the fastest car in the road, but man,

1146
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 5: it's got to be one of the most fun.

1147
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 4: And that size. It's a great size vehicle. It's not

1148
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 4: quite as big as the new nine to elevens are.

1149
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 5: I really love it.

1150
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 2: So Ferrari doesn't make a car anymore with a stick.

1151
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 2: The Corvette doesn't come with a stick anymore, at least

1152
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 2: as far as we know. The new nine to elevens

1153
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 2: that Hannah drove right, none of those kinds.

1154
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: But I think it's I think of Manu, all gearbox

1155
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 1: is coming on a higher variant.

1156
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 2: But why do you think these extra special.

1157
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 3: Vehicle not on the hybrid but on the nine nine

1158
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 3: two two.

1159
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I have One of the things about

1160
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 2: the Corvette that I was driving is it's so fast

1161
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,240
Speaker 2: that I can barely keep the car out of triple digits.

1162
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that'd be a good excuse when

1163
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 2: I get pulled over but I just can't. If I

1164
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 2: had a stick, it would make it much easier to

1165
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: drive slower. You know, why do you think these super

1166
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 2: luxury brands don't put out.

1167
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 5: I don't think there's the demand for it. I think

1168
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 5: that's why.

1169
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 4: I mean, like, there's just aren't as many people that

1170
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 4: want that, And I think that's why we see the

1171
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 4: older cars, you know, generate such interest. I mean, you

1172
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,720
Speaker 4: know you've ever driven like an early seventies Alpha Romeo,

1173
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 4: Like those are not fast cars, those are awesome to drive,

1174
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 4: like this sound, you know, the feel of the car.

1175
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 4: Those are great, great, great cars to drive. You know,

1176
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 4: there are lots and lots of examples of great cars

1177
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 4: with manual transmissions to drive, and no other one's really inexpensive,

1178
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 4: you know, late eight Ease, Mazda are seven.

1179
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 2: I've I'm fascinated by the engine because it's darnt.

1180
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 4: Like that's a great No, I don't, but it's it's

1181
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 4: on the list of things that like would be great.

1182
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 4: This is the downside of being a New York City residence.

1183
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 4: Like for like I got like, you know, one spot

1184
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 4: in the garage for like, you know, something nice and

1185
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 4: it's stupid. How much money you have to pay to

1186
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 4: like have a protected place in your garage. Someday I

1187
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 4: won't live in New York and I'll have more cars.

1188
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 5: But you know, I think the.

1189
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 4: You know, then when the ones you do buy for collection,

1190
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 4: they got you because you're in New York and it's

1191
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 4: too expensive. But I think, you know, it's sort of

1192
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 4: an endless list of what would be amazing to own.

1193
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 4: There just are so many cars. And I actually think

1194
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 4: that the list of vehicles that that could be reimagined

1195
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 4: where you have all the styling and aesthetics of something old,

1196
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 4: but with the conveniences of of a of a more

1197
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 4: modern car. And what I mean by conveniences are like

1198
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 4: you don't have to worry about it breaking down right.

1199
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: It'll run right as traction control.

1200
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, as long as you can turn it off. I

1201
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 5: think those are great.

1202
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 2: Do you think that's a long list. I mean I

1203
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 2: could think of a few. Obviously, the C two Corvette

1204
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 2: is one that I think of, you know, the Mustang

1205
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 2: you're already doing. I don't think there are really that many.

1206
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 4: Oh I could go through it. I mean I think

1207
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 4: you could do. I'd love to see a Lamborghini that

1208
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 4: was more that was more reliable, user friendly.

1209
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:24,879
Speaker 5: I can't imagine little.

1210
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 2: I've never been into kuntash, but I bet you it's

1211
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 2: hard to get in and out and dry.

1212
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the wheel well's not ideal, but it's like,

1213
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 4: that's a great one that could be really really special

1214
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 4: because imagine if it were carbon monocoque with carbon body, right,

1215
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 4: it just be and take that motor and modern technology.

1216
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 4: You talk about something with eight hundred horsepower that weighs

1217
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 4: hundreds of pounds less. That's going to be a just

1218
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 4: absolutely ridiculous car. And you know, you do bigger rims

1219
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 4: and smaller aspect ratio tires and there's a lot that

1220
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 4: could be done there.

1221
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 5: And I think the list is a mile long.

1222
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: Hannah, what would you do if you could start, Hannah

1223
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 2: Elliott reimagining cars?

1224
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: What would you I honestly wouldn't you'd keep in mind,

1225
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: I'm really, I'm really, I'm honestly. I mean it's fine,

1226
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not certainly not casting judgment, but I

1227
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: honestly wouldn't.

1228
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 3: I it doesn't appeal to me on a personal level.

1229
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 3: It's just not my thing.

1230
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, And I totally get that too,

1231
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 4: Like I have a Yeah, I there's there's like old

1232
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 4: slate sixties Shelby Mustangs, you know, I've got I've got

1233
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 4: one that's that's been modernized and ones that haven't are

1234
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 4: I think just as every bit is fun, you know,

1235
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 4: imagine like an old you know one. I'll give you

1236
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 4: an example of a car that i'd like done that

1237
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 4: I would definitely not want to have, like a four

1238
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 4: to twenty seven Cobra.

1239
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 5: I just want the original.

1240
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, to me too, you know things we all see

1241
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: cars on golf courses that have been over restored that

1242
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: are just past the point they're actually better now than

1243
00:57:57,760 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: they ever were when they came out of the factory.

1244
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 3: And to me, that's that.

1245
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in in a hypothetical perfection that did

1246
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 1: not exist at the time, you know.

1247
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 2: So I just want so I mean, I'm with you

1248
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 2: kind of on this because I I feel like there

1249
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 2: are a lot of old cars that are very unsafe

1250
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 2: to drive. There's a lot of old cars that are

1251
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 2: very slow, like even say they are now, and like

1252
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: I would love to get like an old Jag, you know,

1253
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 2: but I know it's going to break down every week,

1254
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 2: and I know it's gonna be super slow and heavy.

1255
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: But I want one that's I love the design, I

1256
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 2: love the interior. For example, I want so desperately that

1257
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 2: Bentley that Matt Farra got right. I've wanted for so long.

1258
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: I've wanted a Bentley. But every time I watch a

1259
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: YouTube video about someone who buys one for thirty thousand dollars,

1260
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 2: they talk about how they've put one hundred grand into

1261
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: it already and they still can't keep it running. I

1262
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 2: wish they could do something like.

1263
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 4: You know, this is the great thing, like the case

1264
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 4: can be made for both and and you know, Hannah

1265
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 4: will say she loves that. You know, when you get

1266
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 4: behind the wheel of an old card doesn't track perfectly straight,

1267
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 4: have to pay total attention, and that's all right, right,

1268
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 4: that's really cool. And I get it equally. I think

1269
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 4: when you take a car that's restored and it's done

1270
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 4: really well and you can't quite like, you know, when

1271
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 4: I drive my Singer, people don't really know what it is,

1272
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 4: particularly the DLS. They just think it's an old Porsche

1273
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 4: with a cool paint job. They don't really you know,

1274
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 4: like why it's a visible carbon car that's kind of cool.

1275
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 4: They don't really get that it is completely different. As

1276
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 4: an F one developed.

1277
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 2: You know, that's something that's that is completely different, right,

1278
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 2: that's not.

1279
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 5: But it doesn't look like it.

1280
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 4: And I'll say you driving it doesn't feel like a

1281
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 4: brand new modern car. It bears no resemblance to you know,

1282
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 4: like a like my you know, sevent eighteen Spider Like

1283
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 4: they're very very very different driving experiences, both awesome in

1284
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 4: their own way, but very different. And I think that's

1285
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 4: what I find alluring is that you can, you know,

1286
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 4: done right, you can create something that's really pretty special.

1287
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 2: That was super nice of him to come and spend

1288
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 2: some time with us. He's got so much on the go.

1289
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: You know.

1290
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unbelievable, and he's so grounded and calm. Yeah,

1291
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 3: I'm surprised.

1292
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 2: Really interesting kind of crossover between cars as a hobby

1293
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: and cars as an investment. And obviously the businesses are

1294
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 2: you know, he wants to make money on them, but

1295
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 2: what cool business is.

1296
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: To be in?

1297
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's obvious. He's like, he's a car guy.

1298
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 2: He did it right, All right, very cool. That's all

1299
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 2: we've got for today.

1300
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: What have you got?

1301
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 2: Have you got anything on in terms of are you

1302
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: driving something special? I really By the way, desperately now

1303
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 2: want to drive that Z six because I had such

1304
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 2: a good time in the E Ray that now and

1305
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 2: my wife was like, we need to get one of these.

1306
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 3: Meet in the middle, start driving toward each other.

1307
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 2: And what did you finally think of the Z six?

1308
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: I mean it hi right, Yes, it's it's a great car.

1309
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's like everything we said last week. I

1310
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: definitely think it's a bit lurchy. It's not a smooth beast.

1311
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: And I say that having come out of a nine

1312
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: to eleven, so you know, that's that is what I

1313
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: drove immediately before it. The interior is really a thing,

1314
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, it's like it doesn't I'm

1315
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,959
Speaker 1: not bothered by the interior configuration.

1316
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 3: It makes me feel something. I just don't know what.

1317
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 3: It makes me feel.

1318
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 2: It makes me feel like I'm a fighter pilot who's

1319
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 2: on an episode of Miami Vice. Yeah, it's you're in

1320
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 2: a cocoon. And anyhow, I love also that the car

1321
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 2: is relatively accessible. So, for instance, when we're talking about Ferraris,

1322
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 2: you spend time in all these you know, supercars. I'm

1323
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 2: never gonna get in any of those, but yes you will.

1324
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 2: But a lot of people can get into.

1325
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 3: Quarvette Corvette, yeah for sure, which is.

1326
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 2: Which is really sweet. All Right, I'm I'm gonna be

1327
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 2: driving an SL sixty three next week.

1328
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 3: That'll be fun, so excited. That'll be great for that.

1329
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 2: But and so I've driven a series of these kind

1330
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: of roadsters or convertibles. I had the Z four, Now

1331
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 2: I was in the convertible C eight, and then I'll

1332
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 2: be in the SL sixty three, and it'll be an

1333
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 2: interesting comparison.

1334
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 3: That's great.

1335
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: I think I have a Volvo drive coming up, may

1336
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: have a Rivian coming up. I've got a couple things

1337
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: I kind of need to check. It's like I'm gonna

1338
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: have a week or two with nothing and then a

1339
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 1: staccato succession of new things.

1340
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 2: So all right, well then we have enough to talk

1341
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 2: about for next week. Yes, I'm Matt

1342
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 3: Miller, I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg