1 00:00:15,370 --> 00:00:25,930 Speaker 1: Pushkin the first floor of the Eiffel Tower, almost two 2 00:00:26,090 --> 00:00:30,250 Speaker 1: hundred feet above the ground. Next to the railings a table. 3 00:00:30,850 --> 00:00:34,010 Speaker 1: On top of the table a wooden chair, and standing 4 00:00:34,010 --> 00:00:39,490 Speaker 1: on the wooden chair a man, Franz Reichelt. He places 5 00:00:39,530 --> 00:00:44,970 Speaker 1: a foot on the railing, he leans forward and peers 6 00:00:44,970 --> 00:00:51,490 Speaker 1: over the edge. The year is nineteen twelve and Franz 7 00:00:51,490 --> 00:00:55,650 Speaker 1: Reichelt is a tailor, thirty three years old. Born in Austria, 8 00:00:55,810 --> 00:00:58,690 Speaker 1: he moved to Paris as a teenager and built a 9 00:00:58,770 --> 00:01:03,690 Speaker 1: modestly successful business in ladies fashion. But ladies fashion is 10 00:01:03,770 --> 00:01:09,490 Speaker 1: not what excites Franz Reichelt. He's fascinated by flight, and 11 00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:15,130 Speaker 1: Reichelt has invented a parachute suit. Rychelt looks briefly up 12 00:01:15,130 --> 00:01:18,010 Speaker 1: to the heavens early in the morning on the first 13 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:22,930 Speaker 1: Sunday in February. His breath forms in the air. By 14 00:01:23,010 --> 00:01:27,370 Speaker 1: nineteen twelve, parachutes are hardly a new idea Leonardo da 15 00:01:27,450 --> 00:01:31,930 Speaker 1: Vinci drew on centuries earlier. What is new is the 16 00:01:32,010 --> 00:01:35,890 Speaker 1: fast growing market for them. Airplanes have only just been 17 00:01:35,930 --> 00:01:40,250 Speaker 1: invented and not yet very reliable. Ryechelt is convinced that 18 00:01:40,450 --> 00:01:46,170 Speaker 1: his wearable parachute can save aviators lives with his tailoring skills. 19 00:01:46,410 --> 00:01:50,570 Speaker 1: He's made well. I'll let a journalist describe it. This 20 00:01:50,770 --> 00:01:54,690 Speaker 1: all silk garment, very well designed, was provided with a 21 00:01:54,810 --> 00:01:58,610 Speaker 1: kind of very wide hood which by means of zippers, 22 00:01:58,730 --> 00:02:02,970 Speaker 1: would automatically expand when called upon and form above the 23 00:02:03,010 --> 00:02:09,650 Speaker 1: head a vast umbrella. Down on the ground nearly two 24 00:02:09,810 --> 00:02:13,250 Speaker 1: hundred feet below. A few dozen people have got up 25 00:02:13,250 --> 00:02:18,730 Speaker 1: early to watch the demonstration. There are aviation enthusiasts, curious 26 00:02:18,770 --> 00:02:22,850 Speaker 1: members of the public, and journalists from all the Paris newspapers. 27 00:02:23,410 --> 00:02:26,730 Speaker 1: Reichelt has even drawn a film crew from the path, 28 00:02:26,770 --> 00:02:31,290 Speaker 1: a journal cinema newsreel. One camera is on the ground 29 00:02:31,690 --> 00:02:36,650 Speaker 1: pointed upwards at him, waiting. Another camera is with Reichelt 30 00:02:36,650 --> 00:02:41,170 Speaker 1: on the first floor filming him. He's still standing there, 31 00:02:41,410 --> 00:02:44,530 Speaker 1: one foot on the railing, one on the wooden chair. 32 00:02:45,290 --> 00:02:48,730 Speaker 1: But is he really going to jump himself? He's told 33 00:02:48,770 --> 00:02:51,570 Speaker 1: the Paris authorities that he's going to put the parachute 34 00:02:51,610 --> 00:02:54,530 Speaker 1: suit on a tailor's dummy and throw that off the 35 00:02:54,570 --> 00:02:57,410 Speaker 1: Eiffel Tower. They would never have given him permission to 36 00:02:57,490 --> 00:03:01,690 Speaker 1: jump off the Eiffel Tower himself. And yet there he stands. 37 00:03:03,290 --> 00:03:07,410 Speaker 1: Reichelt cautiously shifts his weight onto the foot on the railing. 38 00:03:08,130 --> 00:03:12,570 Speaker 1: Then he shifted back. Is he having second thoughts? It 39 00:03:12,770 --> 00:03:18,410 Speaker 1: is very windy. He sways gently forward and backward. He 40 00:03:18,490 --> 00:03:24,090 Speaker 1: looks over the edge again. Twenty seconds go by, thirty forty. 41 00:03:24,810 --> 00:03:29,530 Speaker 1: It's not too late to use the dummy. I'm Tim 42 00:03:29,530 --> 00:04:00,770 Speaker 1: Harford and you're listening to cautionary tales. In nineteen fifty one, 43 00:04:01,130 --> 00:04:04,610 Speaker 1: in a gold mining town in Western Australia, a nineteen 44 00:04:04,690 --> 00:04:08,290 Speaker 1: year old apprentice engineer and an eighteen year old training 45 00:04:08,410 --> 00:04:12,970 Speaker 1: nurse had a baby. They called him Barry. Barry Marshall 46 00:04:13,050 --> 00:04:15,570 Speaker 1: would grow up to be tempted to test a pet 47 00:04:15,650 --> 00:04:19,690 Speaker 1: theory on himself, much like the flying tailor Franz Reichelt 48 00:04:19,850 --> 00:04:24,210 Speaker 1: was tempted all those years ago. Growing up in Australia's 49 00:04:24,210 --> 00:04:27,250 Speaker 1: Back of Beyond, young Barry Marshall liked to read his 50 00:04:27,330 --> 00:04:30,930 Speaker 1: mum's medical textbooks and muck around with his dad's tools. 51 00:04:31,530 --> 00:04:35,890 Speaker 1: He made firecrackers and guns, and a device for pressurizing 52 00:04:35,930 --> 00:04:39,730 Speaker 1: domestic cooking gas to make balloons that were light of 53 00:04:39,730 --> 00:04:42,890 Speaker 1: an air. Do you want to be careful with those balloons? 54 00:04:42,930 --> 00:04:47,210 Speaker 1: Son said? Barry's dad might be dangerous if they meet 55 00:04:47,250 --> 00:04:51,370 Speaker 1: an open flame. Let's see, shall we. He drew on 56 00:04:51,450 --> 00:04:55,130 Speaker 1: his cigarette and touched the lighted end against the balloon. 57 00:04:56,930 --> 00:05:00,250 Speaker 1: Marshall recalls he was enveloped in a ball of flame 58 00:05:00,610 --> 00:05:03,290 Speaker 1: and his eyebrows were singed off. This didn't worry us 59 00:05:03,370 --> 00:05:05,730 Speaker 1: very much because we had seen him in this state before. 60 00:05:07,970 --> 00:05:10,570 Speaker 1: In the gold mining town, there was money to be made, 61 00:05:10,650 --> 00:05:14,690 Speaker 1: but not much choice of career path. Boys left school 62 00:05:15,010 --> 00:05:18,570 Speaker 1: and they mined for gold. The Marshals wanted their kids 63 00:05:18,570 --> 00:05:22,290 Speaker 1: to have options, so they moved their growing family three 64 00:05:22,370 --> 00:05:26,330 Speaker 1: hundred miles to Perth, the nearest city. Barry went to 65 00:05:26,370 --> 00:05:30,450 Speaker 1: medical school and became a doctor. Every six months, he 66 00:05:30,570 --> 00:05:34,690 Speaker 1: trained in a different speciality. When he moved to gastro enterology, 67 00:05:35,050 --> 00:05:38,930 Speaker 1: Marshall quickly realized that stomach problems could be hard to treat. 68 00:05:39,450 --> 00:05:42,770 Speaker 1: One woman on Marshall's ward was in terrible pain from 69 00:05:42,850 --> 00:05:49,050 Speaker 1: gastritis inflammation of the stomach. Nothing helped. In desperation, they 70 00:05:49,090 --> 00:05:54,570 Speaker 1: sent her away with antidepressants. It wasn't uncommon to link 71 00:05:54,650 --> 00:05:58,930 Speaker 1: gastric problems to mental health. Stomach ulcers were widely assumed 72 00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:03,410 Speaker 1: to be caused by stress. Ulcer medicines worked sometimes, but 73 00:06:03,490 --> 00:06:06,890 Speaker 1: often not for long. After a couple of years, many 74 00:06:06,930 --> 00:06:10,690 Speaker 1: patients would be back with another old sir. When medicines 75 00:06:10,770 --> 00:06:14,130 Speaker 1: didn't work, patients would often have part of their stomach 76 00:06:14,370 --> 00:06:19,970 Speaker 1: surgically removed. But was the medical community missing something. One 77 00:06:20,010 --> 00:06:24,930 Speaker 1: of Marshall's colleagues, Robin Warren, had a half formed theory. 78 00:06:25,130 --> 00:06:28,570 Speaker 1: People who came into hospital with a stomach complaint sometimes 79 00:06:28,610 --> 00:06:31,490 Speaker 1: had a biopsy taken, and Warren had been looking at 80 00:06:31,530 --> 00:06:34,810 Speaker 1: these biopsies. When the sample was from a patient with 81 00:06:34,890 --> 00:06:38,330 Speaker 1: an inflamed stomach, he could see under the microscope that 82 00:06:38,370 --> 00:06:41,730 Speaker 1: it was rife with a kind of spiral shaped bacteria. 83 00:06:41,970 --> 00:06:46,330 Speaker 1: It looked like tiny corkscrews. Those bacteria weren't there with 84 00:06:46,410 --> 00:06:51,690 Speaker 1: the healthy stomachs. Warren had observed this spiral bacteria many times, 85 00:06:52,050 --> 00:06:54,810 Speaker 1: including on the biopsy of the woman Marshall had seen, 86 00:06:55,330 --> 00:07:00,850 Speaker 1: the one who got antidepressants. Marshall was intrigued. He felt 87 00:07:00,890 --> 00:07:04,130 Speaker 1: bad that they had failed that patient. Perhaps there was 88 00:07:04,170 --> 00:07:08,650 Speaker 1: something more they could have done. He volunteered to investigate 89 00:07:08,690 --> 00:07:13,850 Speaker 1: warren idea. The medical textbooks weren't much help, but in 90 00:07:13,890 --> 00:07:19,210 Speaker 1: a way that Marshall found paradoxically encouraging. Every single pathologist 91 00:07:19,210 --> 00:07:22,450 Speaker 1: in the whole world who wrote a book described gastritis 92 00:07:22,490 --> 00:07:26,770 Speaker 1: totally differently. That meant to me that they didn't understand it. 93 00:07:27,010 --> 00:07:29,970 Speaker 1: So I'm thinking maybe these bacteria play a role in there. 94 00:07:31,690 --> 00:07:34,850 Speaker 1: Marshall went to his hospital's library and played around with 95 00:07:34,890 --> 00:07:38,330 Speaker 1: the computer. This was nineteen eighty one, their internet yet, 96 00:07:38,810 --> 00:07:41,170 Speaker 1: but the library had just got a direct link to 97 00:07:41,210 --> 00:07:46,570 Speaker 1: Australia's National Library of Medicine, and Marshall liked tinkering with technology. 98 00:07:46,970 --> 00:07:51,810 Speaker 1: He spent months trawling through obscure literature. Had found suggestive 99 00:07:51,850 --> 00:07:55,690 Speaker 1: references to bacteria and stomach complaints that went back nearly 100 00:07:55,730 --> 00:07:59,370 Speaker 1: a hundred years. It seemed that the evidence of a 101 00:07:59,410 --> 00:08:03,890 Speaker 1: link was there that nobody had yet connected the dots. 102 00:08:03,890 --> 00:08:06,690 Speaker 1: Marshall wrote up his findings and sent them to the 103 00:08:06,770 --> 00:08:11,890 Speaker 1: organizers of a big gastroenterology conference in Australia. They weren't 104 00:08:11,890 --> 00:08:15,770 Speaker 1: as excited as he was. They said, dear doctor Marshall, 105 00:08:15,890 --> 00:08:18,530 Speaker 1: we're so sorry that we couldn't accept your abstract. It 106 00:08:18,690 --> 00:08:21,570 Speaker 1: was such a high standard. This year, we had sixty 107 00:08:21,570 --> 00:08:26,090 Speaker 1: seven applications and we could only accept sixty four. Marshall 108 00:08:26,210 --> 00:08:29,490 Speaker 1: tried to grow the bacteria to study it better. Every 109 00:08:29,530 --> 00:08:31,850 Speaker 1: time he got a specimen, he'd send it down to 110 00:08:31,890 --> 00:08:34,650 Speaker 1: the hospital lab to see if they could culture it in. 111 00:08:34,770 --> 00:08:37,050 Speaker 1: Every time he visited the lab to ask how it 112 00:08:37,170 --> 00:08:41,050 Speaker 1: was going, he got the same answer. Had the bacteria grown. No. 113 00:08:42,810 --> 00:08:47,130 Speaker 1: Until one day, the day after the Easter holidays, Marshall 114 00:08:47,210 --> 00:08:50,130 Speaker 1: received a phone call. Come down to the lab. The 115 00:08:50,210 --> 00:08:55,330 Speaker 1: technician said, we think we've cultured your bacteria. It turned 116 00:08:55,330 --> 00:09:00,210 Speaker 1: out that Marshall's bacteria helico back to pylori, or just H. Pylor, 117 00:09:00,850 --> 00:09:04,730 Speaker 1: require three or four days to start showing up. The 118 00:09:04,850 --> 00:09:08,010 Speaker 1: lab was used to culturing bacteria that grow more quickly, 119 00:09:08,330 --> 00:09:11,570 Speaker 1: such as he whole eye. When nothing had appeared in 120 00:09:11,610 --> 00:09:14,530 Speaker 1: the petri dish after a couple of days, the technicians 121 00:09:14,530 --> 00:09:17,850 Speaker 1: were throwing the samples out. They had succeeded this time 122 00:09:18,090 --> 00:09:21,170 Speaker 1: only because Marshall had happened to send the last sample 123 00:09:21,530 --> 00:09:26,410 Speaker 1: just before the four day easter break. Now that Marshall 124 00:09:26,490 --> 00:09:29,810 Speaker 1: knew how to grow H. Pylorie, his next step was 125 00:09:29,850 --> 00:09:32,850 Speaker 1: to prove that the bacteria was causing the stomach illness. 126 00:09:33,250 --> 00:09:37,330 Speaker 1: It could, after all, be a coincidence, or maybe causality 127 00:09:37,370 --> 00:09:41,130 Speaker 1: could run the other way. Perhaps the illness was enabling 128 00:09:41,170 --> 00:09:45,570 Speaker 1: the bacteria to colonize the stomach. Marshall fed his bacteria 129 00:09:45,770 --> 00:09:49,090 Speaker 1: to mice and rats to see if they developed stomach problems. 130 00:09:49,690 --> 00:09:53,730 Speaker 1: They didn't. He tried it on piglets. Every week he'd 131 00:09:53,770 --> 00:09:57,410 Speaker 1: feed them a portion of H. Pylori and do an endoscopy, 132 00:09:57,690 --> 00:10:00,770 Speaker 1: sticking a tube down their throat to look for stomach problems. 133 00:10:01,570 --> 00:10:05,170 Speaker 1: Weeks went by and nothing happened to the little pigs, 134 00:10:05,170 --> 00:10:10,170 Speaker 1: except they grew into bigger pigs. After three of this experiment, 135 00:10:10,450 --> 00:10:13,210 Speaker 1: I had seventy pound pigs that I was wrestling with 136 00:10:13,370 --> 00:10:15,650 Speaker 1: each week trying to do an edoscopy on and it 137 00:10:15,730 --> 00:10:20,570 Speaker 1: was a big mess and the bacteria didn't take. Marshall 138 00:10:20,770 --> 00:10:26,050 Speaker 1: was exasperated. Mice and rats and pigs, after all, aren't people, 139 00:10:26,650 --> 00:10:30,850 Speaker 1: and he was convinced that H. Pylori was giving people ulcers. 140 00:10:31,690 --> 00:10:36,130 Speaker 1: Some gastroenterologists were intrigued by the idea, but many others 141 00:10:36,130 --> 00:10:41,090 Speaker 1: were dismissive. To get their attention, Marshall decided he needed 142 00:10:41,130 --> 00:10:45,610 Speaker 1: to show that if a healthy person got infected with H. Pylori, 143 00:10:45,770 --> 00:10:49,650 Speaker 1: they'd develop a stomach ulcer. But which healthy person could 144 00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:55,570 Speaker 1: he ask to do that? There was one obvious answer himself, 145 00:10:57,290 --> 00:11:00,290 Speaker 1: like his dad poking a gas filled balloon with a 146 00:11:00,370 --> 00:11:05,010 Speaker 1: lit cigarette. Barry was about to satisfy his curiosity in 147 00:11:05,050 --> 00:11:08,730 Speaker 1: a rather reckless way, though he didn't think it was 148 00:11:08,810 --> 00:11:11,930 Speaker 1: too much of a risk. When I spoke to ulcer patients, 149 00:11:12,090 --> 00:11:14,570 Speaker 1: they couldn't tell me about any illness they had had. 150 00:11:14,810 --> 00:11:18,010 Speaker 1: They were perfectly fine, and then they developed an ulcer, 151 00:11:18,690 --> 00:11:21,890 Speaker 1: So I didn't think I'd become unwell. Marshall had been 152 00:11:21,930 --> 00:11:25,490 Speaker 1: feeding his pigs a small dose of bacteria every week, 153 00:11:26,210 --> 00:11:29,850 Speaker 1: but would he really be able to persevere with consuming H. 154 00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:34,290 Speaker 1: Pylori himself on a weekly basis. He wasn't sure he 155 00:11:34,330 --> 00:11:37,810 Speaker 1: could stomach it. Better to summon up his courage once, 156 00:11:38,010 --> 00:11:43,050 Speaker 1: he thought, and take one huge dose. Marshall and his 157 00:11:43,130 --> 00:11:46,450 Speaker 1: lab technician brewed up a beaker of the potion, a 158 00:11:46,490 --> 00:11:50,970 Speaker 1: couple of ounces of cloudy brown liquid. He hadn't told 159 00:11:51,050 --> 00:11:53,210 Speaker 1: the lab technician what he was about to do with it. 160 00:11:54,490 --> 00:11:57,730 Speaker 1: He hadn't told his bosses either, as he feared they'd 161 00:11:57,730 --> 00:12:03,010 Speaker 1: try to stop him. He raised the beaker in his hand. Well, 162 00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:08,970 Speaker 1: here he goes down the hatch. The lab technician was horrified. 163 00:12:10,410 --> 00:12:28,410 Speaker 1: We'll find out what happened after the break. Barry Marshall 164 00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:32,090 Speaker 1: didn't expect to get a stomach ulcer right away. Many people, 165 00:12:32,130 --> 00:12:35,930 Speaker 1: it seemed, can carry an H. Pylori infection without developing 166 00:12:35,970 --> 00:12:39,250 Speaker 1: any gastric complaints. If he's going to get an ulcer, 167 00:12:39,290 --> 00:12:43,530 Speaker 1: he thinks it might take years. He reassures his appalled 168 00:12:43,650 --> 00:12:47,650 Speaker 1: lab technician that he feels perfectly fine and goes off 169 00:12:47,650 --> 00:12:51,170 Speaker 1: to do his rounds on the ward as usual. It 170 00:12:51,290 --> 00:12:54,930 Speaker 1: takes just a few days before Marshall realizes that something 171 00:12:55,010 --> 00:12:59,130 Speaker 1: isn't right. He's having one of his favorite meals, Chinese noodles, 172 00:12:59,570 --> 00:13:01,770 Speaker 1: but the food is sitting on his stomach like a 173 00:13:01,890 --> 00:13:06,570 Speaker 1: lump of lead. Boy, I feel so full. In the morning, 174 00:13:06,650 --> 00:13:09,370 Speaker 1: he wakes up at the crack of dawn, I'm going 175 00:13:09,450 --> 00:13:12,410 Speaker 1: to be sick. He runs into the bathroom and throws up. 176 00:13:13,130 --> 00:13:15,850 Speaker 1: But it's not the Chinese food that comes back up again, 177 00:13:16,570 --> 00:13:21,970 Speaker 1: just a clear, slimy liquid about a pint of it. Well, gee, 178 00:13:22,010 --> 00:13:25,570 Speaker 1: that's weird. I don't do that very often. The next 179 00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:29,250 Speaker 1: morning he wakes up and vomits again, and the next 180 00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:33,690 Speaker 1: he visits his mother. He hasn't told her about swallowing 181 00:13:33,690 --> 00:13:38,210 Speaker 1: the bacteria. Barry, are you constipated? How come you've got 182 00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:43,650 Speaker 1: bad breath. Barry's work colleagues have also noticed his terrible breath, 183 00:13:44,170 --> 00:13:46,970 Speaker 1: but they don't want to be impolite enough to tell him. 184 00:13:47,130 --> 00:13:50,890 Speaker 1: Ten days after swallowing the h pylorie, he gets them 185 00:13:50,930 --> 00:13:54,570 Speaker 1: to give him an endoscopy. Usually I can tolerate the 186 00:13:54,650 --> 00:13:57,610 Speaker 1: tube pretty easily with just a little gagging, but it 187 00:13:57,690 --> 00:14:02,650 Speaker 1: was very uncomfortable. The endoscopy shows that the lining of 188 00:14:02,770 --> 00:14:08,890 Speaker 1: Marshall's stomach is severely inflamed. This is great, says Marshall. 189 00:14:09,370 --> 00:14:12,250 Speaker 1: Let's give it another few days and see how it develops. 190 00:14:13,010 --> 00:14:16,770 Speaker 1: Marshall hasn't told his wife what he's done either, Barry, 191 00:14:17,530 --> 00:14:20,810 Speaker 1: there's something wrong with you. All night, You're hot and cold. 192 00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:24,370 Speaker 1: You're breaking out in a sweat. You're not eating your meals. 193 00:14:24,690 --> 00:14:28,730 Speaker 1: You've got dark rings under your eyes. You look terrible. Well, 194 00:14:29,010 --> 00:14:31,850 Speaker 1: you know, I took this bacteria and now I've got 195 00:14:31,850 --> 00:14:36,970 Speaker 1: the infection. You did what? It's not like. Marshall hadn't 196 00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:40,650 Speaker 1: done any thinking ahead. He tested the bacteria he had 197 00:14:40,690 --> 00:14:44,650 Speaker 1: cultured to make sure that an antibiotic metro nidazole would 198 00:14:44,730 --> 00:14:47,850 Speaker 1: kill it. It did in the petri dish at least, 199 00:14:48,650 --> 00:14:51,730 Speaker 1: so he was fairly confident that he could cure himself 200 00:14:51,770 --> 00:14:55,290 Speaker 1: by taking metro nidazole if his illness got to worrying. 201 00:14:56,450 --> 00:14:59,810 Speaker 1: Barry Marshall was the latest in a long tradition of 202 00:14:59,930 --> 00:15:05,370 Speaker 1: doctors experimenting on themselves. Alas that long tradition is not 203 00:15:05,610 --> 00:15:12,090 Speaker 1: wholly reassuring. John Hunter was eighteenth century English surgeon, royal 204 00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:15,170 Speaker 1: doctor to King George the Third. He was also the 205 00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:19,850 Speaker 1: leading authority of his time on venereal disease, so much 206 00:15:19,890 --> 00:15:23,450 Speaker 1: so that, according to some accounts, he gave himself gonorrhea 207 00:15:23,650 --> 00:15:27,730 Speaker 1: to study it better. He extracted us from an infected 208 00:15:27,770 --> 00:15:32,650 Speaker 1: patient and injected it into his own penis. This turned 209 00:15:32,650 --> 00:15:35,970 Speaker 1: out to be a doubly bad idea. First of all, 210 00:15:36,370 --> 00:15:40,570 Speaker 1: none of Hunter's cures for gonorrhea actually worked were still 211 00:15:40,850 --> 00:15:44,650 Speaker 1: The patient also happened to have syphilis, and Hunter got 212 00:15:44,690 --> 00:15:49,010 Speaker 1: that too, setting up a lifetime of worsening health. Or 213 00:15:49,170 --> 00:15:53,890 Speaker 1: take the nineteenth century German chemist Max von Pettenkoffer. Like 214 00:15:54,090 --> 00:15:58,370 Speaker 1: Barry Marshall, he downed a potion teeming with bacteria, in 215 00:15:58,370 --> 00:16:02,690 Speaker 1: this case the bacteria that caused cholera. He was trying 216 00:16:02,730 --> 00:16:06,410 Speaker 1: to prove his theory that the bacteria didn't cause cholera. 217 00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:10,530 Speaker 1: He was wrong. They do, and cholera can kill you. 218 00:16:12,530 --> 00:16:15,370 Speaker 1: But von Pettenkoffer was lucky. He just got a mild 219 00:16:15,410 --> 00:16:20,330 Speaker 1: case of diarrhea. In the nineteen twenties, medical student Werna 220 00:16:20,450 --> 00:16:25,010 Speaker 1: Forceman learned from his physiology textbook about an experiment someone 221 00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:28,130 Speaker 1: had done on a horse. They inserted a tube in 222 00:16:28,170 --> 00:16:31,170 Speaker 1: a vein in the horse's neck, pushed the tube into 223 00:16:31,210 --> 00:16:35,530 Speaker 1: the horse's heart, and inflated a rubber balloon to measure 224 00:16:35,570 --> 00:16:39,530 Speaker 1: the changes in pressure as the horse's heart beat. The 225 00:16:39,610 --> 00:16:45,090 Speaker 1: horse survived. Forceman wandered if a human would too. If 226 00:16:45,130 --> 00:16:47,810 Speaker 1: you could insert a tube into a vein in a 227 00:16:47,810 --> 00:16:51,330 Speaker 1: patient's arm, he thought, and push it into the heart, 228 00:16:52,010 --> 00:16:55,450 Speaker 1: that might have some medical uses. Forceman went to the 229 00:16:55,490 --> 00:16:58,410 Speaker 1: boss at his hospital and said, can I try this 230 00:16:58,490 --> 00:17:04,290 Speaker 1: on myself? Absolutely not, said his boss. Imagine the scandal 231 00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:08,250 Speaker 1: for the hospital if you kill yourself. Forceman decided to 232 00:17:08,290 --> 00:17:11,970 Speaker 1: ignore him and do it anyway. He'd need a tube. 233 00:17:12,210 --> 00:17:14,730 Speaker 1: To get the tube, he'd need to sweet talk the 234 00:17:14,850 --> 00:17:17,850 Speaker 1: nurse who held the keys to the supply covered. The 235 00:17:17,970 --> 00:17:22,730 Speaker 1: nurse was forty five year old girder Ditson. The young 236 00:17:22,810 --> 00:17:25,930 Speaker 1: doctor took her out to dinner and tried to persuade 237 00:17:25,930 --> 00:17:28,490 Speaker 1: her of the importance of what he wanted to do. 238 00:17:29,010 --> 00:17:33,370 Speaker 1: Nurse Ditson was completely won over. Do it to me, 239 00:17:33,850 --> 00:17:38,010 Speaker 1: she said. They arranged a clandestine meeting. In the lunch break, 240 00:17:38,570 --> 00:17:42,050 Speaker 1: Nurse Ditson got out of thirty inch tube, a scalpel, 241 00:17:42,250 --> 00:17:45,530 Speaker 1: and a hollow needle. She lay down on the surgical 242 00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:49,050 Speaker 1: table and doctor Forceman tied down her arms and legs 243 00:17:49,090 --> 00:17:52,570 Speaker 1: to hold her still. Forceman then turned his back on 244 00:17:52,650 --> 00:17:55,970 Speaker 1: her as if to arrange the instruments, but instead he 245 00:17:56,090 --> 00:18:00,250 Speaker 1: performed the surgery on himself. He dabbed iodine on his 246 00:18:00,370 --> 00:18:04,890 Speaker 1: left elbow, injected himself with a local anesthetic, and used 247 00:18:04,930 --> 00:18:08,250 Speaker 1: the needle to feed the tube into his vein. He 248 00:18:08,290 --> 00:18:11,530 Speaker 1: went back to strap Nurse Ditson and tell her what 249 00:18:11,610 --> 00:18:16,370 Speaker 1: he had done. She was furious, but she agreed to 250 00:18:16,410 --> 00:18:20,010 Speaker 1: help Forceman do what he needed to do next, get 251 00:18:20,170 --> 00:18:23,570 Speaker 1: proof that he'd pushed the tube all the way into 252 00:18:23,610 --> 00:18:27,490 Speaker 1: his heart. Together, they went to the X ray department 253 00:18:27,850 --> 00:18:30,610 Speaker 1: and asked the technician to let them use the fluoroscope. 254 00:18:31,290 --> 00:18:35,410 Speaker 1: On the screen, they could see where the tube was. Gently, 255 00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:40,410 Speaker 1: Forceman pushed it further and further towards his heart. The 256 00:18:40,450 --> 00:18:43,410 Speaker 1: technician slipped out of the room to alert another doctor 257 00:18:43,450 --> 00:18:47,010 Speaker 1: to what was going on. That other doctor now burst in. 258 00:18:47,610 --> 00:18:50,850 Speaker 1: What are you doing? He yelled at Forceman, You're crazy. 259 00:18:51,330 --> 00:18:53,890 Speaker 1: He tried to pull the catheter out of Forceman's arm, 260 00:18:54,010 --> 00:18:58,210 Speaker 1: but Forceman fought him off, kicking his shins. Nine nine, 261 00:18:58,250 --> 00:19:02,690 Speaker 1: I must push it forward. At last, the tip of 262 00:19:02,770 --> 00:19:07,250 Speaker 1: the catheter entered his heart. Take up picture. He told 263 00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:11,850 Speaker 1: the technician had his proof. He wrote up his self 264 00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:15,930 Speaker 1: experiment and submitted it to a medical journal. It caused 265 00:19:16,050 --> 00:19:21,210 Speaker 1: a huge fuss Enforceman was fired. He struggled to find 266 00:19:21,210 --> 00:19:24,330 Speaker 1: a new job. Nobody wanted a heart surgeon who was 267 00:19:24,370 --> 00:19:27,690 Speaker 1: known as a risk taker but a rule breaker. He 268 00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:31,250 Speaker 1: retrained as a urologist, got a job in a small 269 00:19:31,290 --> 00:19:34,010 Speaker 1: town where nobody had heard of him, and joined the 270 00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:44,170 Speaker 1: Nazi Party. Meanwhile, two American cardiologists read his old journal 271 00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:48,850 Speaker 1: article and decided he was onto something. They turned cardiac 272 00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:53,690 Speaker 1: catheterization into a practical technique to investigate heart disease and 273 00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:57,930 Speaker 1: to treat it by widening blocked arteries. They received a 274 00:19:58,130 --> 00:20:01,930 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize for their efforts, and they shared that Nobel 275 00:20:02,010 --> 00:20:07,330 Speaker 1: prize with an obscure ex Nazi small town German neurologist. 276 00:20:08,090 --> 00:20:10,930 Speaker 1: Nearly three dec aides after he had tied up Nurse 277 00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:17,570 Speaker 1: ditson Verna, Forceman had been vindicated. Just how big is 278 00:20:17,610 --> 00:20:22,730 Speaker 1: this tradition of medical self experimentation. A doctor and researcher 279 00:20:22,810 --> 00:20:26,450 Speaker 1: called Alan Weiss set out to document every example he 280 00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:30,170 Speaker 1: could find from the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. He found 281 00:20:30,570 --> 00:20:34,650 Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty five. Then he looked at what 282 00:20:34,730 --> 00:20:39,210 Speaker 1: had happened to them. In seven cases, including Forceman, it 283 00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:44,330 Speaker 1: won them a Nobel prize. In eight it killed them. 284 00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:52,050 Speaker 1: The odds of death and glory were roughly equal. Barry 285 00:20:52,170 --> 00:20:57,330 Speaker 1: Marshall's wife was not happy. She was worried about his 286 00:20:57,410 --> 00:21:00,610 Speaker 1: health and worried that he might pass on the bacteria 287 00:21:00,690 --> 00:21:05,330 Speaker 1: to her and their children. Start taking antibiotics. She tells 288 00:21:05,410 --> 00:21:08,890 Speaker 1: him give me till the end of the week. Marshall pleads, 289 00:21:09,170 --> 00:21:11,490 Speaker 1: I want to have another endoscopy to see what's happening. 290 00:21:12,050 --> 00:21:16,570 Speaker 1: By this point, Marshall has stopped vomiting up colorless, slimy liquid. 291 00:21:17,410 --> 00:21:21,650 Speaker 1: To his surprise, the next endoscopy shows that the inflammation 292 00:21:21,770 --> 00:21:24,570 Speaker 1: is healing. He takes the antibiotics to be on the 293 00:21:24,610 --> 00:21:27,130 Speaker 1: safe side, but he seems to have fought off the 294 00:21:27,130 --> 00:21:31,250 Speaker 1: bacteria on his own. Marshall has dinner with Robin Warren, 295 00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:34,170 Speaker 1: the colleague Hauld first suggested that he looked into the 296 00:21:34,330 --> 00:21:38,730 Speaker 1: spiral shaped bacteria on stomach biopsies. He tells Warren all 297 00:21:38,770 --> 00:21:42,930 Speaker 1: about his self experiment The next morning, Warren is woken 298 00:21:43,050 --> 00:21:46,490 Speaker 1: up at five am by a call from an American journalist. 299 00:21:46,970 --> 00:21:50,930 Speaker 1: They've scheduled a routine interview to discuss Warren's ulcer theory, 300 00:21:51,210 --> 00:21:53,730 Speaker 1: but the journalist has got muddled about the time zone 301 00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:57,810 Speaker 1: in Perth because he's half asleep. Warren blurts out the 302 00:21:57,930 --> 00:22:02,690 Speaker 1: exciting news, Barry Marshall just infected himself and damn near died. 303 00:22:03,730 --> 00:22:06,810 Speaker 1: Marshall hasn't yet published his work in a medical journal, 304 00:22:07,170 --> 00:22:11,690 Speaker 1: so the first report about it in an American tabloid newspaper, 305 00:22:12,170 --> 00:22:16,290 Speaker 1: a sensational story about the Australian guinea pig doctor and 306 00:22:16,410 --> 00:22:20,650 Speaker 1: his cure for ulcers. That's not going to help my credibility, 307 00:22:20,970 --> 00:22:25,930 Speaker 1: Marshall thinks, But unlike some of his self experimenting predecessors, 308 00:22:26,250 --> 00:22:34,730 Speaker 1: at least he was still alive. The tailor Franz Reichelt 309 00:22:34,770 --> 00:22:39,810 Speaker 1: had kept his self experimentation plans to himself. The workers 310 00:22:39,810 --> 00:22:43,010 Speaker 1: he employed in his tailoring business thought he was planning 311 00:22:43,050 --> 00:22:46,010 Speaker 1: to put his parachute suit on a tailor's dummy and 312 00:22:46,090 --> 00:22:49,250 Speaker 1: throw the dummy off the Eiffel Tower. That's also what 313 00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:52,290 Speaker 1: he told the Paris authorities he wanted to do when 314 00:22:52,330 --> 00:22:55,050 Speaker 1: he asked for permission to use the Eiffel Tower for 315 00:22:55,170 --> 00:22:59,730 Speaker 1: his test. The wait for that permission was agonizing as 316 00:22:59,770 --> 00:23:04,210 Speaker 1: Reichelt tried to improve his designs. Bureaucrats waited a full 317 00:23:04,290 --> 00:23:08,490 Speaker 1: year before giving him the nod. By then, Reichelt's workers 318 00:23:08,490 --> 00:23:11,330 Speaker 1: were used to him throwing dummies off the fifth floor 319 00:23:11,370 --> 00:23:14,890 Speaker 1: balcony of the building where he worked. The first prototype 320 00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:17,730 Speaker 1: of his parachute suit had a canopy of just six 321 00:23:17,770 --> 00:23:23,570 Speaker 1: square yards. The dummy did not land softly enough. Reichelt 322 00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:27,770 Speaker 1: redesigned the suit, this time with a twelve square yard canopy. 323 00:23:28,290 --> 00:23:31,410 Speaker 1: He threw the dummy off his balcony and the results 324 00:23:31,410 --> 00:23:35,490 Speaker 1: were a little better. Reichelt made the canopies bigger and 325 00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:40,010 Speaker 1: bigger in the end over thirty square yards, and it 326 00:23:40,170 --> 00:23:44,050 Speaker 1: seemed to him that the falls got chentler. He found 327 00:23:44,050 --> 00:23:47,090 Speaker 1: a quiet spot in a village to try the suit himself, 328 00:23:47,730 --> 00:23:51,290 Speaker 1: jumping from thirty feet onto a bed of straw. But 329 00:23:51,370 --> 00:23:54,810 Speaker 1: he also thought he saw the problem. He wasn't jumping 330 00:23:54,850 --> 00:23:59,610 Speaker 1: from high enough. The parachute needed more time to slow 331 00:23:59,650 --> 00:24:05,330 Speaker 1: the speed of his descent. On the evening before his 332 00:24:05,450 --> 00:24:09,930 Speaker 1: date with the Eiffel Tower Saturday, February fourth, nineteen twelve, 333 00:24:10,690 --> 00:24:13,810 Speaker 1: Riichelt wanted to make sure the media would turn up. 334 00:24:14,170 --> 00:24:17,210 Speaker 1: He paid a visit to a journalist at a Paris newspaper. 335 00:24:18,130 --> 00:24:20,530 Speaker 1: I've told the authorities I'm going to use a dummy, 336 00:24:20,850 --> 00:24:26,290 Speaker 1: he says. Actually, I'm going to jump myself. You won't 337 00:24:26,290 --> 00:24:30,490 Speaker 1: take any precautions, not in the least. I want to 338 00:24:30,570 --> 00:24:35,370 Speaker 1: prove the value of my invention. Word got round, and 339 00:24:35,450 --> 00:24:39,090 Speaker 1: when morning came, the journalists were out in force, and 340 00:24:39,290 --> 00:24:43,050 Speaker 1: the path a film crew. One writer describes the inventor's 341 00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:49,090 Speaker 1: absolute calm and apparent good humor. Another says he's cheerful, 342 00:24:49,370 --> 00:24:52,490 Speaker 1: brimming with confidence. He had put on a sort of 343 00:24:52,610 --> 00:24:56,850 Speaker 1: brown jumpsuit, a little bulkier than ordinary clothing. The appearance 344 00:24:57,010 --> 00:25:00,610 Speaker 1: was elegant, and the inventor rightly pointed out to everyone 345 00:25:00,690 --> 00:25:05,530 Speaker 1: that his clothing did not hinder movement. Some people made 346 00:25:05,530 --> 00:25:09,250 Speaker 1: a last ditch attempt to dissuade Raichelt from making the 347 00:25:09,330 --> 00:25:12,330 Speaker 1: jump himself. It's not too late to use a mannequin, 348 00:25:12,610 --> 00:25:15,930 Speaker 1: they point out. Will you at least think about postponing 349 00:25:16,050 --> 00:25:20,450 Speaker 1: until the wind calms down. Reichelt is having none of it. 350 00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:24,570 Speaker 1: You will see how my seventy two kilos and my 351 00:25:24,690 --> 00:25:29,970 Speaker 1: parachute will give to your arguments. The most decisive of denials. 352 00:25:32,050 --> 00:25:35,250 Speaker 1: There are three hundred and forty seven steps up to 353 00:25:35,330 --> 00:25:39,810 Speaker 1: the first floor of the Eiffel Tower. Reichelt starts to 354 00:25:39,850 --> 00:25:43,090 Speaker 1: climb them, with one of the film crews in tow. 355 00:25:43,570 --> 00:25:48,250 Speaker 1: He turns to look back at the crowd. Abiento. He says, 356 00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:54,170 Speaker 1: see you soon. Franz Reichelt wasn't included in the research 357 00:25:54,290 --> 00:25:58,610 Speaker 1: that counted four hundred and sixty five cases of self experimentation. 358 00:25:59,610 --> 00:26:05,250 Speaker 1: That research looked at doctors, not tailors. That research found 359 00:26:05,250 --> 00:26:09,450 Speaker 1: the pace of self experimentation was slowing towards the end 360 00:26:09,490 --> 00:26:13,250 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. The Golden Age passed a hundred 361 00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:18,890 Speaker 1: years ago. Another researcher, Brian Hanley, doubts that he thinks 362 00:26:18,930 --> 00:26:22,930 Speaker 1: those figures are just the tip of the iceberg. Hanley 363 00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:27,210 Speaker 1: has experimented on himself in gene therapy. He knows lots 364 00:26:27,210 --> 00:26:30,330 Speaker 1: of other academics who've done the same but kept it quiet. 365 00:26:31,250 --> 00:26:34,850 Speaker 1: They worry that their institutions won't support them. They might 366 00:26:34,890 --> 00:26:40,530 Speaker 1: be fired. Like Werner Forceman all those years ago. Hanley 367 00:26:40,610 --> 00:26:45,570 Speaker 1: decided to investigate why self experimenting has such a bad reputation. 368 00:26:46,210 --> 00:26:49,970 Speaker 1: He and his colleagues contacted the ethics departments of universities 369 00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:52,490 Speaker 1: to see if they had a policy on it. There 370 00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:55,810 Speaker 1: was no consistency, but they heard a common concern that 371 00:26:56,010 --> 00:27:01,290 Speaker 1: self experiments prove nothing. It's called the n of one problem. 372 00:27:01,650 --> 00:27:05,130 Speaker 1: If your research has only one subject, you can't learn 373 00:27:05,170 --> 00:27:09,090 Speaker 1: anything useful. You need bigger studies to draw wider conclude. 374 00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:13,090 Speaker 1: That's just not true, said Hanley. An n of one 375 00:27:13,170 --> 00:27:17,170 Speaker 1: experiment can show that something is possible and more research 376 00:27:17,330 --> 00:27:21,650 Speaker 1: is worthwhile. That's what happened with Werna Forceman and Barry Marshall. 377 00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:26,210 Speaker 1: The sensational tabloid story might not have helped Marshall's credibility, 378 00:27:26,490 --> 00:27:30,050 Speaker 1: but it got attention and led to bigger studies. We 379 00:27:30,130 --> 00:27:33,730 Speaker 1: now know that roughly half the world's population is infected 380 00:27:33,730 --> 00:27:37,570 Speaker 1: with H. Pylori, generally in childhood. For most people it 381 00:27:37,690 --> 00:27:41,690 Speaker 1: never becomes a problem, but for some it causes stomach 382 00:27:41,730 --> 00:27:44,850 Speaker 1: cultures later in life, and we now know how to 383 00:27:44,850 --> 00:27:49,730 Speaker 1: treat them. Barry Marshall joined the list of self experimenters 384 00:27:49,730 --> 00:27:54,490 Speaker 1: who won a Nobel prize. The tailor, Franz Reichelt, as 385 00:27:54,530 --> 00:27:59,690 Speaker 1: you might have guessed, was not so lucky the path. 386 00:27:59,770 --> 00:28:03,690 Speaker 1: A newsreel footage of Franz Reichelt's jump from the Eiffel 387 00:28:03,690 --> 00:28:09,930 Speaker 1: Tower is riveting and awful. The parachute never looks like unfurling. 388 00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:15,850 Speaker 1: Reichelt drops like a stone. The autopsy will later reveal 389 00:28:15,970 --> 00:28:20,050 Speaker 1: that as he falls, he's suffering a massive cardiac arrest. 390 00:28:21,090 --> 00:28:25,770 Speaker 1: He fell with a dull thud onto the ground, his 391 00:28:25,890 --> 00:28:31,530 Speaker 1: forehead bleeding, his eyes open, dilated with terror, his limbs broken. 392 00:28:32,130 --> 00:28:37,010 Speaker 1: The reckless inventor was dead. Reichelt had looked like a 393 00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:41,730 Speaker 1: mad genius equipped one journalist, but proved himself worthy of 394 00:28:42,050 --> 00:28:47,250 Speaker 1: only half the epithet. It's easy to snicker, but is 395 00:28:47,250 --> 00:28:52,970 Speaker 1: it fair? Wearable parachutes are not an intrinsically stupid idea 396 00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:56,890 Speaker 1: reichelt design failed, But today we have designs that work, 397 00:28:57,370 --> 00:29:01,290 Speaker 1: wingsuits that let you skydive like a flying squirrel. And 398 00:29:01,450 --> 00:29:05,050 Speaker 1: when a self experiment goes well, it's easy to forget 399 00:29:05,210 --> 00:29:09,970 Speaker 1: how much uncertainty it involved. Barry Marshall didn't expect to 400 00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:14,250 Speaker 1: get symptoms so quickly, and he didn't expect the symptoms 401 00:29:14,290 --> 00:29:18,610 Speaker 1: to self resolve. I was a bit overconfident in retrospect, 402 00:29:18,970 --> 00:29:22,810 Speaker 1: he later admitted. If we can't tell how big a 403 00:29:22,930 --> 00:29:25,810 Speaker 1: risk is, how can we tell whether to take it. 404 00:29:26,850 --> 00:29:29,290 Speaker 1: I think all we can do is examine our motives. 405 00:29:29,770 --> 00:29:33,050 Speaker 1: Are we thirsting for useful knowledge that there's no other 406 00:29:33,090 --> 00:29:39,050 Speaker 1: way to obtain, or trying to show off? Barry Marshall 407 00:29:39,050 --> 00:29:42,370 Speaker 1: admits with hindsight that he was a brash young man, 408 00:29:42,850 --> 00:29:46,570 Speaker 1: impatient to prove his older colleagues wrong. Asked if he'd 409 00:29:46,610 --> 00:29:50,530 Speaker 1: do the same again, he says, I'd definitely study all 410 00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:53,290 Speaker 1: the different angles of it further before I'd do it 411 00:29:53,330 --> 00:29:58,690 Speaker 1: on myself. Franz Reichelt looks like a classic case of hubris. 412 00:29:59,130 --> 00:30:02,010 Speaker 1: There was, after all, a risk free way to test 413 00:30:02,050 --> 00:30:07,690 Speaker 1: his idea. Use a Taylor's dummy to jump himself suggests 414 00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:12,770 Speaker 1: he was delusionally overconfident in his own idea. That seems 415 00:30:12,810 --> 00:30:16,850 Speaker 1: to be what most Parisian journalists assumed, but not all. 416 00:30:17,650 --> 00:30:20,450 Speaker 1: Joe took the trouble to track down one of Reichelt's 417 00:30:20,490 --> 00:30:24,210 Speaker 1: friends and ask what the inventor had been thinking. The 418 00:30:24,290 --> 00:30:30,370 Speaker 1: explanation is simple, said the friend. Intellectual property laws. Reichelt 419 00:30:30,370 --> 00:30:34,010 Speaker 1: had managed to secure a patent for his parachute suit idea, 420 00:30:34,290 --> 00:30:38,050 Speaker 1: but the legal fees had stretched his finances, and patents 421 00:30:38,170 --> 00:30:42,170 Speaker 1: lasted for only fifteen years. If he was going to 422 00:30:42,210 --> 00:30:46,130 Speaker 1: make money from his invention, he had to commercialize it quickly. 423 00:30:47,010 --> 00:30:51,090 Speaker 1: That meant he needed a wealthy sponsor, and his only 424 00:30:51,130 --> 00:30:56,250 Speaker 1: hope of getting a sponsor was a spectacular, attention grabbing success. 425 00:30:57,170 --> 00:31:00,450 Speaker 1: He'd waited a whole year for bureaucrats to give him 426 00:31:00,490 --> 00:31:04,810 Speaker 1: permission to use the Eiffel Tower. He might never get 427 00:31:04,850 --> 00:31:11,890 Speaker 1: another chance to make an impact death all glory. As 428 00:31:11,930 --> 00:31:16,090 Speaker 1: he hesitated with his foot on the railing for forty 429 00:31:16,290 --> 00:31:40,930 Speaker 1: long seconds, perhaps he'd already guessed the answer. Cautionary Tales 430 00:31:41,050 --> 00:31:44,650 Speaker 1: is written by me Tim Harford with Andrew Wright. It's 431 00:31:44,690 --> 00:31:48,290 Speaker 1: produced by Ryan Dilley with support from Courtney Guarino and 432 00:31:48,370 --> 00:31:51,810 Speaker 1: Emily Vaughan. The sound design and original music is the 433 00:31:51,850 --> 00:31:55,450 Speaker 1: work of Pascal Wise. It features the voice talents of 434 00:31:55,530 --> 00:32:00,250 Speaker 1: Ben Crow, Melanie Gutridge, Stella Harford, and Rufus Wright. The 435 00:32:00,330 --> 00:32:03,170 Speaker 1: show also wouldn't have been possible without the work of 436 00:32:03,290 --> 00:32:08,250 Speaker 1: Mia LaBelle, Jacob Weisberg, Heather Fane, John Schnars, Julia Barton, 437 00:32:08,570 --> 00:32:13,890 Speaker 1: Carlie mc or, Eric Sandler, Royston Basserve, Maggie Taylor, Nicole Mrano, 438 00:32:14,210 --> 00:32:18,890 Speaker 1: Danielle Lakhan, and Maya Kanig. Cautionary Tales is a production 439 00:32:19,050 --> 00:32:22,730 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you like the show, please remember 440 00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:26,410 Speaker 1: to share, rate and review, tell a friend, tell two friends, 441 00:32:26,530 --> 00:32:28,490 Speaker 1: and if you want to hear the show, adds free 442 00:32:28,610 --> 00:32:32,970 Speaker 1: and listen to four exclusive Cautionary Tales shorts. Then sign 443 00:32:33,090 --> 00:32:35,850 Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus on the show page in Apple 444 00:32:35,890 --> 00:32:39,890 Speaker 1: Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm, slash plus