Speaker 1: Okay, we don't know when this is gonna air, but
Speaker 1: I'm just going to talk about New York in this
Speaker 1: moment because something has happened in the city of New
Speaker 1: York that has been life changing, game changing everything. All Right,
Speaker 1: So if you're a Knicks fan or if you're not
Speaker 1: a Knicks fan, it doesn't really matter, because everywhere in
Speaker 1: the city there's been this crazy electricity, this crazy connectivity.
Speaker 1: You see a Wall Street guy in a Patagonia vest
Speaker 1: high fiving a guy who's working on a truck, like,
Speaker 1: everybody is together in this moment. And I realized one
Speaker 1: of the feelings I love most of all in the
Speaker 1: entire world is when a group gets together and feels
Speaker 1: a collective sense of awe, a collective sense of wonder,
Speaker 1: a collective sense of oh my gosh, I can't believe
Speaker 1: we did this. So whether you're in the West Village
Speaker 1: or in the Bronx, or whether you were up in
Speaker 1: Westchester County or it didn't matter in Harlem, it didn't
Speaker 1: matter where you were, we all felt the same feeling.
Speaker 1: And I realized that's what is missing in life. People
Speaker 1: didn't watch the game in their homes. They ran down
Speaker 1: on the street to watch the game on a projector
Speaker 1: on the side of a building because they wanted to
Speaker 1: be in community. So I want to capture that again.
Speaker 1: I want to keep that flow going, keep that thing going.
Speaker 1: Part of the thing that we do at Joey one
Speaker 1: h one my company, is we want to bring people together.
Speaker 1: We want people to look each other in the eye
Speaker 1: and hold hands and have a feeling. And the other
Speaker 1: thing that struck me about what is going on in
Speaker 1: New York is think about this. New York is a
Speaker 1: one mile island, and on that island are people from
Speaker 1: every country, every religion. They speak all the languages, and
Speaker 1: somehow we're all squeezed in on this island. And I
Speaker 1: always thought, if New York City can work, then the
Speaker 1: world can work. If everybody can live on top of
Speaker 1: each other and work, then the world should be able
Speaker 1: to work. It's just another beautiful thing about New York City,
Speaker 1: a place that I love, a place that has come alive,
Speaker 1: a place that feels kind of reborn. It's a beautiful
Speaker 1: time to be alive in New York City. Which brings
Speaker 1: me to my next guest. Because when I think about
Speaker 1: collective AWE, I think of music. I think of think
Speaker 1: about your favorite concert. Think about how you felt when
Speaker 1: you're in the audience and you're sweating because it's outdoor
Speaker 1: and everyone is swaying together, and sometimes you feel like
Speaker 1: the singer makes eye contact with you. There's nothing better
Speaker 1: than that feeling. It's like, oh my god, she saw me,
Speaker 1: he saw me. One of the greatest singers on earth
Speaker 1: is a Grammy winner multiple times over. Her name is
Speaker 1: Pat Bennett. She and her husband Neil created magic for
Speaker 1: all of us for so many years. Pat is one
Speaker 1: of those people that if you've ever seen her in
Speaker 1: concert or even heard her song on anywhere, Spotify, the radio,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. You just feel uplifted. She defines collective awe.
Speaker 1: She and her husband combined have done things that no
Speaker 1: other musical artists have ever done. Well. Now Pat and
Speaker 1: her husband are not only parents, their grandparents, and they
Speaker 1: are living this beautiful life and they are continuing to sing.
Speaker 1: So I would like you to welcome to my podcast,
Speaker 1: Pat Benattar and her husband Neil. I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: talk with you. I mean, I was just talking at
Speaker 1: the top of this about like what it's like to
Speaker 1: be in like collective awe and we're talking about how
Speaker 1: the Knicks won the title and how was that crazy?
Speaker 1: I mean, and I saw so many parallels. I was
Speaker 1: so happy we were interviewing you today because when I
Speaker 1: saw the crowds on the street and everybody and everybody
Speaker 1: feeling the vibe, I mean to I was imagining your
Speaker 1: life what it must feel like to not like that,
Speaker 1: but it's that feeling. It's like, like I get that
Speaker 1: feeling from this morning event concerts when it's like a
Speaker 1: collective wow. So when you guys, when you guys are
Speaker 1: on stage and you see what you've been able to witness,
Speaker 1: only a few people get that perspective describe what it's
Speaker 1: like to be on stage in a moment like that.
Speaker 2: Pat, It's just I mean, it's great because we're together.
Speaker 2: That's great. And it's this is our forty seventh anniversary
Speaker 2: this year.
Speaker 1: Wait, you said forty seven.
Speaker 2: Forty seventh musical anniversary. So we've been performing together since
Speaker 2: we were basically children, and you know, and yeah, so
Speaker 2: it's great. I mean, he's great. He's like crank, you know,
Speaker 2: he's having the best time. He loves to be out
Speaker 2: there being nuts.
Speaker 3: You know, listen, it's it's chemical you know, it's you
Speaker 3: get in doorphins they start coming out and you look
Speaker 3: at the crowd and just playing music and trying to
Speaker 3: be inside a song and seeing how the people react
Speaker 3: and smile. They all smile together at the same time,
Speaker 3: they all put their eyebrows down at the same time.
Speaker 3: It's like a yeah, it's an event. It's like a
Speaker 3: basketball game with more three three pointers.
Speaker 2: And it's you know, for us, it's history. We've been
Speaker 2: together for so long and all those things are you know,
Speaker 2: going through your head really quickly as you're performing now,
Speaker 2: all the times that you've been there together, and it's
Speaker 2: it's just an amazing, great feeling.
Speaker 1: And Pat, I loved hearing. I mean, I love hearing
Speaker 1: about your life, but I love the fact that the
Speaker 1: time that you knew that you could sing, you were
Speaker 1: I think you described it being in fourth grade and
Speaker 1: you were finally in chorus and you belted something out
Speaker 1: and what did what happened in that moment that made
Speaker 1: you realize, Wow, I might have something special here with
Speaker 1: these pipes.
Speaker 2: Because they made me go to the principal's office and
Speaker 2: I thought I was in trouble, So I was like
Speaker 2: something something's happening here. My parents had a They call
Speaker 2: my parents and they came in after work and I
Speaker 2: was just sitting on the seat outside the principal's office.
Speaker 2: I just terrified that I did something really bad, and
Speaker 2: you know, and yeah, so it was it was just
Speaker 2: a moment. I mean we all have that, you know,
Speaker 2: it's all everybody gets, that moment when you kind of
Speaker 2: know that this might be something happening here.
Speaker 1: So they they knew that you could sing. Did you
Speaker 1: just love singing or was it just something you were
Speaker 1: good at at that time?
Speaker 2: I just sang all the time and too much to everyone,
Speaker 2: sugar and and saying with Spider. Spider was an Italian
Speaker 2: family Sicilian family play? And what time when do you start?
Speaker 3: Six?
Speaker 2: Guitar? Six six xtus Because his father wanted Neil and
Speaker 2: his sister to play Italian songs after church. So you know,
Speaker 2: you just do this from little and it's all you know,
Speaker 2: and it's all you want to do, and you just
Speaker 2: think it's so normal. None of it's weird. You know,
Speaker 2: she's part of like breathing.
Speaker 1: So that's so funny. So Neil, so six years old,
Speaker 1: you get handed a guitar and what happens. Did you
Speaker 1: just start playing it? Well?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well not at first. I mean it was difficult
Speaker 3: at six years old trying to play against steal and wood.
Speaker 3: You know, your fingers aren't ready for that or anything.
Speaker 3: But yeah, my father, my parents wanted me to do
Speaker 3: these Italian songs, which are phenomenal. It was a lot
Speaker 3: of fun doing. My sister played accordion, and it was
Speaker 3: just something that felt like Patricia. When she started singing,
Speaker 3: it felt so right to her right. And since I
Speaker 3: wasn't very good at school, in school and at the
Speaker 3: first grade when I was five years old, which was
Speaker 3: a total mistake disaster, and when the guitar was in
Speaker 3: my hands, it felt perfectly normal. I mean I felt
Speaker 3: it really solved all the neurosis and problems I had
Speaker 3: emotionally at that time. It just went, hey, here you are.
Speaker 2: You know, I got It kind of finds you, you know,
Speaker 2: it does. It finds you. You're just walking around in
Speaker 2: the universe and music and art find you.
Speaker 1: They do well. You know, when I was reading pat
Speaker 1: about your life and how you had this boyfriend when
Speaker 1: you were just a kid, and you went and got
Speaker 1: married and decided that music wasn't going to be your thing,
Speaker 1: even though you got into Juilliard.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't get in.
Speaker 1: I didn't go.
Speaker 2: I didn't even audition because I didn't do it because
Speaker 2: I decided to get married at nineteen like an idiot.
Speaker 1: But so, so tell me about that decision. Why did
Speaker 1: you decide to do that?
Speaker 2: Decided did not go to Juilliard?
Speaker 1: No, decide to get married at that at that age?
Speaker 1: Why was that?
Speaker 2: Because we were young? We were in high school sweethearts
Speaker 2: and he was going to get drafted, and I thought
Speaker 2: he was going to die in Vietnam, but he didn't
Speaker 2: and I got married. But I needed a better last name.
Speaker 2: My last name was Polish and really long. And then
Speaker 2: I had a practice being married so that when I
Speaker 2: met that guy that I would know how to behave.
Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, how cute are you two? Where
Speaker 1: are you? How come you're not in the same house
Speaker 1: or are you upstairs and downstairs?
Speaker 2: We're in our separate offices.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, you're in the same house.
Speaker 2: We always do it like because I like my better
Speaker 2: lighting and I don't like his lighting.
Speaker 1: We just know, you know, most people who've been married
Speaker 1: for this long work together, live together, do interviews together.
Speaker 1: Do everything together. Get I don't know how can can
Speaker 1: can keep this up? Most most married couples can't put
Speaker 1: together a piece of Ikea furniture before they're like, get
Speaker 1: away from me, I need my space.
Speaker 2: What's the mad days to? Mostly poor him? You know,
Speaker 2: I'm pretty bossy, but he's real nice, and I don't know,
Speaker 2: we just like each other. We still really like each other, I.
Speaker 1: Think by the way you can tell, by the way
Speaker 1: you can feel it. Okay, So, so pat, after you've
Speaker 1: had this, this marriage and this and this bank teller business,
Speaker 1: you decided to go down the music road, just tell
Speaker 1: me that story.
Speaker 2: You know. We were stationed at Fort Lee. So I
Speaker 2: was I just I was working in a bank and
Speaker 2: going to school part time for singing. But you know,
Speaker 2: I had no intentions of really doing anything professionally. I'd
Speaker 2: just given it up by that point. And I don't know,
Speaker 2: I just got I just got sick of me and
Speaker 2: having a regular life. And I just looked in the
Speaker 2: paper and they had kind of like their their version
Speaker 2: of the Village Voice, and it had like, you know,
Speaker 2: ads about like singer wanted, you know, all this kind stuff.
Speaker 2: So there was an ad for some band that was
Speaker 2: looking for a singer, and I just I said okay, fine,
Speaker 2: and I went and I did it, and that was it.
Speaker 2: And I just, you know, I did that for a
Speaker 2: few years, and then I moved back to New York
Speaker 2: in seventy five, which was maybe the last time the
Speaker 2: Nicks had got glad when I got full circle.
Speaker 3: Full circle, probably so.
Speaker 1: But breaking in a New York ain't easy. It's not
Speaker 1: easy for anyone, and it wasn't easy for women in
Speaker 1: rock and roll during that time. So how did you
Speaker 1: crack that nut?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, it was just I was
Speaker 2: hell bent on doing it, and I just, I mean,
Speaker 2: I had no idea what the plan with Spider was.
Speaker 2: You know, we call him Spider, so that's me. But
Speaker 2: Spider was Spider was already playing with Rick Darringer when I.
Speaker 3: Met about you talk about you, Patricia.
Speaker 2: But wait, I want to get the time frame, so
Speaker 2: we when he and I met, I was I had
Speaker 2: already signed a record deal. I mean, I worked for
Speaker 2: a long time. I worked from seventy five to seventy eight,
Speaker 2: and I worked with the songwriters. As soon as I
Speaker 2: started working with songwriters, I wasn't writing songs yet, but
Speaker 2: I started my voice, my own voice started to emerge,
Speaker 2: because before that I was singing songs that were by
Speaker 2: other people, and you know, you always have that tendency
Speaker 2: to kind of emulate a little bit. So the minute
Speaker 2: I started working on original songs with others, my voice
Speaker 2: started to emerge. But it wasn't really there yet, but
Speaker 2: the idea was there, and I had the idea. And
Speaker 2: then when he and I met, it was great because
Speaker 2: he was ahead of me because he had been playing
Speaker 2: with Dereger. They were playing stadiums. I was just beginning,
Speaker 2: and the two of us together, it was just a
Speaker 2: perfect match, you know. And you know we basically we
Speaker 2: basically put that band together and learned everything, you know,
Speaker 2: just the two of us, and that's how it started.
Speaker 1: So so Neil, I mean, you know, when when you
Speaker 1: think of a lot of these duos, there are usually
Speaker 1: two dudes. When you walked in and saw pat and
Speaker 1: thought to yourself, am I going to be teamed up
Speaker 1: with her? What were your thoughts?
Speaker 3: Well, I make a joke out of this, and Patrician
Speaker 3: knows it already. Is that when I received the call
Speaker 3: because I just finished making this record with Rick Drenger.
Speaker 3: So I got this call to meet this singer that
Speaker 3: wanted to put a band together, and then I didn't.
Speaker 3: I says, maybe I've heard of him before, and the
Speaker 3: person said, well, it's not a him, it's her. And
Speaker 3: the first thing I said was she is she good looking?
Speaker 3: And I'm just kidding around. I'm just being likety.
Speaker 2: You're only twenty three. What were you going to say?
Speaker 3: I'm just moofi like that, honestly, though, honestly, you know,
Speaker 3: it was a dream come true on so many levels,
Speaker 3: right artistically. First level is that all I wanted was
Speaker 3: to work with a great singer, and Patricia just excelled
Speaker 3: at that. I even told them when we met, I says,
Speaker 3: I hope you don't blame me, and I'm the guy,
Speaker 3: not the guy responsible for destroying your voice, because there
Speaker 3: is what we're gonna do here is gonna be a
Speaker 3: whole lot different than what you've been doing. So, you know,
Speaker 3: I grew up in a household where you always respect women.
Speaker 3: It was very important my sister. They used to make
Speaker 3: fun of my sister and when I'd go to school
Speaker 3: at the bus station, I would go there like four years,
Speaker 3: three years younger than her. I'd go if somebody had
Speaker 3: gotten like made fun of her, I'd stand up for her.
Speaker 3: I'd fight him. I didn't care how big they were.
Speaker 3: So it was really important that the respect for women.
Speaker 3: So I really didn't honestly, god, I didn't care. All
Speaker 3: I wanted was a great singer. Patricia was like absolutely
Speaker 3: perfect and she still is. Look at her, She's perfect.
Speaker 1: My god.
Speaker 2: I mean, but it was it was kismet. I mean
Speaker 2: when we met each other, we I mean it was instantaneous.
Speaker 2: We knew on so many levels. I mean musically it was,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean just insane. He just played one
Speaker 2: court and I knew. I mean, I had been you know,
Speaker 2: I've been working, like I said, for three years. And
Speaker 2: everybody was patting me on the head. I was saying,
Speaker 2: you know, I want to do this. I want to
Speaker 2: be like you know, Robert Plant. And they were saying, well,
Speaker 2: why don't you, why don't you be like live good
Speaker 2: darling friend of ours, and she's having great success, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, no, no, that's not what I mean.
Speaker 2: I want to I want to be like Keith and
Speaker 2: Mick and Robert Plant and Jimmy Page. I wanted to
Speaker 2: like that partnership. And they were all patting me on
Speaker 2: the head, going yes, but nobody really got it. And
Speaker 2: then but my chapman got it. He knew and he
Speaker 2: had known, he knew Spider because he had done the
Speaker 2: record with Rick Nsure and and he said to me
Speaker 2: in one of the meetings we had when I was,
Speaker 2: you know, ripping my hair out about what I was
Speaker 2: trying to do, and he said, I got your guy.
Speaker 2: That's what he said. And he called the record company
Speaker 2: called him, and then he came, you know, to the
Speaker 2: down to New York. Were you in Bearsville? Where were you?
Speaker 2: I was in Woodstock, Woodstock, and he came down. He
Speaker 2: came down to New York to meet We were just
Speaker 2: going to meet each other to see if we got on.
Speaker 2: And well the rest is history.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's so put you said, Patty on
Speaker 1: the head, you know, someone said that. And look in
Speaker 1: my career over many years, there have been many many
Speaker 1: of those where people like, yes, we I'll get right back. No,
Speaker 1: he's going to do that, You're going to do this.
Speaker 1: Just that feeling and you're a fighter avi from the beginning. Uh,
Speaker 1: pat But how did you like hold on to what
Speaker 1: you wanted to do when I'm sure everybody said, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, Linda Romstad, go down this aisle, go down
Speaker 1: this road, go down that road. How did you fight that?
Speaker 1: While it How did you fight it?
Speaker 2: It wasn't I mean, it wasn't hard to do because
Speaker 2: I was so convicted and committed. I mean, I just
Speaker 2: I had an idea and I was absolutely positive it
Speaker 2: could work. It was difficult in the fact that every
Speaker 2: single day somebody was trying to stop you from doing
Speaker 2: that or like, you know, just like I said, they
Speaker 2: were just you know, condescending and you know, misogynistic, and
Speaker 2: everybody was just like, yeah, okay, whatever, you know that
Speaker 2: kind of thing. And so that part was a pain
Speaker 2: in the butt. Yeah, that was just annoying as hell.
Speaker 2: But you know, when we got together and we just,
Speaker 2: you know, we were formidable together, you know, we because
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the way he played and everything,
Speaker 2: and the balance of how I was singing, how he
Speaker 2: was approaching the song and how he was playing, it
Speaker 2: was undeniable that we had something happening, you know. So
Speaker 2: I think that it was really I think we would
Speaker 2: have done well on our own, each of us, but
Speaker 2: together it was something entirely different, you know.
Speaker 1: Neil, did you see any of the second of stuff
Speaker 1: toward pat Did you witness it?
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't. I was used to it because
Speaker 3: of my sister, you know, people making fun of her
Speaker 3: just being you know, looking at her as is whatever,
Speaker 3: looking down. I didn't like that I said something, I
Speaker 3: did things. I mean, I wasn't happy about it, and
Speaker 3: I just tried the channel and keep ourselves so tight,
Speaker 3: Patricia and I and the band keep it so tight
Speaker 3: together that anything, you would't let anything, and you don't
Speaker 3: infiltrate that.
Speaker 2: He knew, he knew I was going to go in
Speaker 2: there with guns blazing. He knew that, he knew me.
Speaker 2: He knew what was going to happen when they did it.
Speaker 2: I mean, I would going to the radio station. You've
Speaker 2: probably heard the story. I would going to the radio station.
Speaker 2: You know that we'd only have one token female on
Speaker 2: the playlist for the day or the week, whatever you
Speaker 2: just won, you know, And I would go in there.
Speaker 2: And before I would go in, our record the record
Speaker 2: company rep or the manager would say to me, don't
Speaker 2: don't give him the finger, and I go okay. I
Speaker 2: would come out and I would be smiling because the
Speaker 2: the uh well, I guess I can't swear, but the
Speaker 2: a hole of music directors said, why don't you just
Speaker 2: sit down right here and we'll see we can get
Speaker 2: that record played. And so of course I was like, yeah, right,
Speaker 2: you know, like that's it. So I came out and
Speaker 2: they would go, you didn't didn't your idea? Yes? I
Speaker 2: did so. I mean, Spider knew I was not going
Speaker 2: to take any crap from anybody.
Speaker 1: So what was the moment when people took you seriously?
Speaker 1: I know that your music was great, you had I
Speaker 1: mean everyone knows you, Pat, because when in fact, I
Speaker 1: was at the gym this morning, Oh I'm interviewing Pat Benatar,
Speaker 1: and guys who were in their thirties and guys who
Speaker 1: were in their sixties were all like Pat Benaitar like something.
Speaker 1: There was a moment where everything crystallized for everybody. How
Speaker 1: it affected all these generations.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean it was we were chasing it. Don't you think,
Speaker 2: Spy that we were chasing it? I mean we were.
Speaker 2: It was. It happened really quickly that when Heartbreaker was released,
Speaker 2: you know, we knew we had it. I think that
Speaker 2: that when we recorded the song, the minute we were
Speaker 2: the minute we had that were rehearsing it, and then
Speaker 2: when we did the first take, we knew we had it.
Speaker 2: And I just think that we were chasing it. After that,
Speaker 2: we were running behind it. It had a life of
Speaker 2: its own. It took off and you know, it went
Speaker 2: from clubs sold out and people out in the street
Speaker 2: to you know, the next thing was arenas and the
Speaker 2: next thing, you know, it just kept going. So we
Speaker 2: were chasing it. I mean, it happened really quickly, and
Speaker 2: you know that that pretty much convinced everyone you have.
Speaker 3: To go behind a curtain which you which you don't
Speaker 3: know a lot of people don't know, is that when
Speaker 3: we started working together, we worked really hard, Patricia and
Speaker 3: I and I would tell her all the time about
Speaker 3: you know, because what I do is I don't look
Speaker 3: as I don't think of myself as a guitar player.
Speaker 3: I think of myself as we usician and a songwriter, producer,
Speaker 3: and I only use it as a tool. I started
Speaker 3: playing piano when I was eleven. I started playing drums
Speaker 3: when I was thirteen. So when we met, I basically
Speaker 3: was telling Patricia, don't you want to write your own song?
Speaker 3: Let's write our own stuff. And let's build this thing out.
Speaker 3: And she listened, and she and that's the whole beauty
Speaker 3: of this. She was such a great early on. You
Speaker 3: got to understand a great student in that because what
Speaker 3: she was doing prior was a lot different than when
Speaker 3: we got together, when we joined rite ourselves together. And
Speaker 3: I had total respect for her at all times. And
Speaker 3: when I heard her sing, I knew that we can
Speaker 3: do anything. We could do absolutely anything we wanted, which
Speaker 3: was perfect for me because I want to explore all
Speaker 3: these genres. So when it started happening, people took it
Speaker 3: for serious, because you know what, we were damn serious,
Speaker 3: and people they were going to mess with us. And
Speaker 3: that's the way it is. You know, people say stupid stuff,
Speaker 3: and they did and at radio stations and things like that.
Speaker 3: But that that stopped, stopped right away.
Speaker 2: Yeah I did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, success works, Pat would you have Do you think
Speaker 1: you would have made it without Neil?
Speaker 2: It would have been different, for sure. I mean because
Speaker 2: we started that first record. We started in the heat
Speaker 2: of the night, and we had recorded six songs that
Speaker 2: that that did go on the record that you all know.
Speaker 2: But what what happened, I mean we recorded it with
Speaker 2: some of the top musicians in New York studio session
Speaker 2: people and great, great players, I mean amazing, and I
Speaker 2: just remember standing there just like thinking to myself, Oh God,
Speaker 2: this is not it. This isn't it. And I remember
Speaker 2: that Terry Ellis, who was the president of the record company,
Speaker 2: when we had done the six songs, and I knew,
Speaker 2: I knew it was wrong. I knew it. And he
Speaker 2: said to me, you know, it's the first I don't
Speaker 2: want you to expect too much. And I said, what,
Speaker 2: I expect everything.
Speaker 3: He already knew though, Yeah.
Speaker 2: But he knew too, and we scrapped it and that's
Speaker 2: when my chapman called him. We recorded them again, the
Speaker 2: one with the ones that we kept, and it was
Speaker 2: a whole other thing, and that was it. And once
Speaker 2: we once we played together, that was it was exactly
Speaker 2: what I'd been hearing in my head. So I knew
Speaker 2: we had it. He knew we had it. I mean,
Speaker 2: we were just I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was just it was a thing that was, you know,
Speaker 1: and at the peak of all of this stuff, you
Speaker 1: find out at one point path that you're pregnant. And
Speaker 1: I found it so interesting that the record label was
Speaker 1: like cool, glad you're pregnant anyway, No, that's not cool.
Speaker 1: They were like the opposite of this is what you're
Speaker 1: doing anyway? Tell me about what that was like.
Speaker 2: It was ignorant, It was ridiculous. I mean, we had
Speaker 2: been you know, we've been together, We were together since
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, and we have been trying to you know,
Speaker 2: we got married, which they hated, you know, I mean
Speaker 2: they tried to they at the minute they realized that
Speaker 2: this was going to this was going to be an
Speaker 2: unholy alliance. They loved it until they realized that we
Speaker 2: were so tight that this was going to be a
Speaker 2: problem from now on. And they tried to destroy our
Speaker 2: relationship right from the beginning. I mean they what do
Speaker 2: you mean, because they didn't want They thought that if
Speaker 2: they could, if he was not there, they would be
Speaker 2: able to control me better, which was a mistake, I mean,
Speaker 2: because that wasn't going to be true anyway. But the
Speaker 2: fact is they were so dumb. I mean, they were
Speaker 2: so happy that we had done all this great work,
Speaker 2: but then they realized that they had no more control
Speaker 2: when we got married. They were furious that we got married,
Speaker 2: but you know, what were they going to do? But
Speaker 2: They were really furious when I got pregnant. That is insane,
Speaker 2: but they were so ignorant and they I remember the
Speaker 2: manager calling me up and saying, why would you do
Speaker 2: something like this?
Speaker 3: And I was like, what.
Speaker 2: Are you guys? You got to remember the time of
Speaker 2: the world. Yeah, I mean the only other person I
Speaker 2: knew that was doing what we were doing was Chrissy
Speaker 2: Hein And I saw her backstage when she had Natalie,
Speaker 2: and you know, it was it was me and her
Speaker 2: and she I said, you know, how are you doing this?
Speaker 2: She goes, I'm not. I mean it was just there
Speaker 2: was no handbook for this, you know, one of usually
Speaker 2: one of you stayed home with the baby, you know whatever,
Speaker 2: and now both of us were there. We never tore
Speaker 2: once we had Hailey, our first child off her daughter.
Speaker 2: We never toured without our kids. We toured with our
Speaker 2: kids only.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So it was nuts, But I mean you had it
Speaker 2: just we were winging it and we had no idea
Speaker 2: what we're doing.
Speaker 3: We had fun, though, Yeah, you know, the manager being mad.
Speaker 3: I you know, you could see that side of where
Speaker 3: they were at. Because think about two things, money and control,
Speaker 3: which was more important. So what they decided, what they
Speaker 3: decided was the decided was control was more important. But
Speaker 3: then when they realized that, wait a minute, if we
Speaker 3: get control, we don't get creative, because if I can't
Speaker 3: do what I do best by trying to make those
Speaker 3: songs that we write whatever and make them hits, they
Speaker 3: looked and went after So after we after we got
Speaker 3: married and everything, it's it changed and things definitely changed
Speaker 3: when they realized we still can make a lot of
Speaker 3: money from them. You know, it just control and money.
Speaker 2: And they were never going to win. We were relentless
Speaker 2: and that was it. I mean they just you know,
Speaker 2: it was a fight. They were never going to win,
Speaker 2: so but they tried.
Speaker 3: They did.
Speaker 1: Just the spirit girl is so intoxicating, like you're you
Speaker 1: know what, it's so clear to you. You're like, no,
Speaker 1: I was not quitting period, full stop. Were there ever
Speaker 1: any moments where the sexism, the manager, anything got to
Speaker 1: you to a point where you were saying, pat, you
Speaker 1: know what, like this is too much?
Speaker 3: Never?
Speaker 2: Never, because it made me so I mean I was
Speaker 2: so feisy anyway, and I just got crazier and it
Speaker 2: just made me crazier. I mean I was don't forget
Speaker 2: I sang classical music and musical theater for most of
Speaker 2: my life before this, and I was a nice girl
Speaker 2: from Lindenhurst, Long Island. We sang and had a great
Speaker 2: time in love theater and all that. And then you know,
Speaker 2: I wanted because inside was always this, you know. And
Speaker 2: so once I, once I drug it out one spider
Speaker 2: drug it out, I knew that was it for me.
Speaker 2: I was so happy to be there and I was like,
Speaker 2: bring it on.
Speaker 1: What do you got?
Speaker 2: What else you got?
Speaker 1: What else you got? So what's what was harder? Motherhood
Speaker 1: or being a music star? Oh?
Speaker 2: God? Motherhood?
Speaker 3: For sure.
Speaker 2: Motherhood's like the peace cort. Do you remember the old
Speaker 2: slogan the hardest job you'll ever love?
Speaker 3: This is it?
Speaker 2: Okay, this is not for the thing hearted. We've got
Speaker 2: two monster daughters who are are just you know, they're
Speaker 2: coming from here, you know what I'm saying. And they
Speaker 2: were just raised right they're crazy, and you know, it
Speaker 2: was it's nuts. And he's the greatest. He's so good.
Speaker 2: He's such a great girl.
Speaker 3: Dad.
Speaker 2: He's like amazing. He did great. It was like a nightmare.
Speaker 2: I mean, how did you do it? Fabulous? They're fabulous.
Speaker 2: I mean they're such great women. They're just great. I
Speaker 2: mean they're so centered and solid and just you know,
Speaker 2: just feisty. It's sweet, and I mean I couldn't asked
Speaker 2: for better.
Speaker 1: How did you guys do it? I mean, how did
Speaker 1: your parent on the road? How did you do it
Speaker 1: with this wild lifestyle? How did it work?
Speaker 2: I wish I could say a lot of alcohol, but no, no,
Speaker 2: I don't know. It was we were together. I mean, listen,
Speaker 2: we could not have done this, I swear. I mean,
Speaker 2: like I said, most people. One of you was staying home,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. One of you was in
Speaker 2: the band.
Speaker 1: The other one was not.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: We were in the band.
Speaker 2: I mean it was insane. We had the best one
Speaker 2: of the best things that ever happened. I mean we
Speaker 2: were dragging, you know. We had road cases that were
Speaker 2: built for their toy boxes so we could bring their
Speaker 2: favorite toys. I was I have OCD so arm like
Speaker 2: a lunatic, so I wasn't putting them in cribs in
Speaker 2: the four seasons I was getting, you know, I was
Speaker 2: having road cases built for my cribs that I was bringing,
Speaker 2: you know, So we were dragging all this crap with
Speaker 2: us all the time. And it was insane, but you know,
Speaker 2: they learned how to Haley learned how to walk. In Minneapolis,
Speaker 2: Hanna was roller skating in the forum, you know, out
Speaker 2: inside the I mean they were riding their bikes inside
Speaker 2: you know, Madison Square Garden. They were riding their bikes,
Speaker 2: you know, doing all kinds of crazy stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And so they had a great time. They learned how
Speaker 2: to swim. We were in swimming pools everywhere across America.
Speaker 2: You know, they were having the best time ever. And
Speaker 2: they loved their bunks. They would get in the bus
Speaker 2: and they would decorate their bunks.
Speaker 1: Okay, how did they go to school? How did all
Speaker 1: that work?
Speaker 2: We only we only toured in the summer once we
Speaker 2: had children and they were old enough to be in school.
Speaker 2: We only toured in the summer because I wasn't we did.
Speaker 3: We did do it for one short period of time,
Speaker 3: and that was a disaster. Yeah, disasters when they were little. Yeah, well,
Speaker 3: when our oldest was little, the first one. So we
Speaker 3: realized that that's not going to work.
Speaker 2: So we went in the summer. But the bet one
Speaker 2: of the best days I ever had because knowing and
Speaker 2: you know, you were just kind of on your own,
Speaker 2: and you know, there's not a lot of you're not
Speaker 2: even though you have a lot of I mean, you
Speaker 2: know people, you know people in the music business, but
Speaker 2: you're really not really hanging out that much because you're working.
Speaker 2: So were they. One day we pull up to a
Speaker 2: hotel and I see this this bus and I see
Speaker 2: these people unloading baby walkers and all kinds of stuff,
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, who is that because I you know,
Speaker 2: our kids were bigger now, and I was thinking, Oh God,
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that's not us anymore. It was Bruce.
Speaker 1: Were dragged all these.
Speaker 2: Like high five and we're done.
Speaker 3: All right, good time with that. We were laughing, Oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what did Haley and how to think of mom
Speaker 1: and dad? Like when you were on stage, do you
Speaker 1: have any memories of them watching or when they were little.
Speaker 2: They loved it because they could play and they could
Speaker 2: go everywhere and do stuff. But you know, the minute
Speaker 2: they like turn like twelve thirteen, when they start being
Speaker 2: embarrassed that you were like breathing. You know, this was worse.
Speaker 2: This was the worst. I mean, this was like just
Speaker 2: until Hailey was really the worst. Hana was a little
Speaker 2: bit easier because she was the baby and it was
Speaker 2: later but Hailey, Hailey hated it until she found out
Speaker 2: we could get her into sea and sink backstage.
Speaker 1: By the way, that's so brilliant.
Speaker 3: And I did.
Speaker 2: I did end sync, yeah, and you know that I
Speaker 2: had to do handsome please.
Speaker 3: I know the great The great n sync story is
Speaker 3: I took him to see and sink, our oldest And
Speaker 3: when I got there, a lot of the crew people
Speaker 3: knew me from being an under road Hey, how you
Speaker 3: doing nice to see everything, a sound man, all the
Speaker 3: technical So next thing happens is she's got great seats
Speaker 3: in the front. She looks over she can see me
Speaker 3: on the side of the stage, and she's going, well,
Speaker 3: they just put me on the side of the stage.
Speaker 3: She was so mad. I love it.
Speaker 1: By the way, every time you say Haley, my heart
Speaker 1: skips because I happen to have a nine year old
Speaker 1: named Hailey. Oh no, I adopted my two kids. I
Speaker 1: have a seven year old named Hope and a nine
Speaker 1: year old named Hailey. And every time you say Haley, like,
Speaker 1: I get the warm fuzzies. Why did you pick that name?
Speaker 1: By the way, was it just just because that.
Speaker 3: Was Patricia picked that I picked her middle name. I
Speaker 3: don't even call her Hailey. I call her Gina.
Speaker 2: Her middle name is Gina. We call her Gina. But
Speaker 2: but people will say, oh, you have three daughters, Haley
Speaker 2: Gina and Haley is Gina. That's like crazy. But no,
Speaker 2: I was, I don't know, you know, it wasn't Hayley Mills,
Speaker 2: who I love, But it wasn't that. I just I
Speaker 2: don't know. It just came and I picked it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, the same same I had the same thing.
Speaker 1: So I read your very cute book about being grandparents.
Speaker 1: So I thought that was the first of all the
Speaker 1: cutest concept in the world. You've got three grandkids, is
Speaker 1: that right?
Speaker 3: Three?
Speaker 1: I mean, so they what do they think that all
Speaker 1: grandparents were rock stars? Is that kind of what they thought?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Our oldest, our oldest Stevie, who's now eight, when we
Speaker 2: started the you know, it takes a long time to
Speaker 2: get the book published and all this up, but she
Speaker 2: was four when we started. And when we were just
Speaker 2: talking one day and she was asking, you know, does Evelyn,
Speaker 2: our's grand grandma go on stage? And I said no,
Speaker 2: I don't think so, you know, and she said, what
Speaker 2: about her papa? Does he play guitar and I'm like,
Speaker 2: you like and so then we realized that she that
Speaker 2: their scope of they thought everybody's grandparents did what we did.
Speaker 2: So we started having the conversation that oh, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: people do different things and they don't look like us.
Speaker 2: You know, Papa's got tattoos everywhere and people don't have
Speaker 2: that all the time, and you know, all these kinds
Speaker 2: of things. So that's how the book was. The concept
Speaker 2: for the book was born, but that was because of
Speaker 2: the conversation with her. She does She's like, that's steviee.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's Stevie.
Speaker 2: It was really fun to do.
Speaker 1: What is the best part of being grandparents? What do
Speaker 1: you love about that?
Speaker 3: Well, what's not the love.
Speaker 2: Everything? I mean, you have kids, so your kids a
Speaker 2: little and you see how fast it goes Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's over in a blink. It's it's just I mean,
Speaker 2: it's it's a terrible cruel joke. You know that you
Speaker 2: have them little for soul, little time, yes, and then
Speaker 2: what happens is and you love your kids and everything
Speaker 2: you do and everything, and then when you have grandchildren. No,
Speaker 2: this is illness. This is this borders on illness. Okay,
Speaker 2: you are so mad for them, crazy because everyone you're
Speaker 2: getting a second chance, okay, and you can't believe you
Speaker 2: have little babies and little children in your life again.
Speaker 2: And it's not somebody else's kids. They're yours, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's not somebody's kid in the park.
Speaker 2: And you're like, oh, I'm holding a bit. No, they're
Speaker 2: your baby. This is your baby.
Speaker 3: Here's a different here's a difference too. Though. The difference
Speaker 3: is really important to know, is that. And it's simple
Speaker 3: and it's obvious that you know, when you're a parent,
Speaker 3: you're around your children all the time, day and night. Right,
Speaker 3: the grandparents aren't there. So when you do come, which
Speaker 3: were there a lot, we're there a lot there. And
Speaker 3: my my favorite one, when we finally got the boy,
Speaker 3: the grandson, so cash, I call him Cashish. So when
Speaker 3: we when we get to the house and I opened
Speaker 3: the door and he goes bob by go Cashi, and
Speaker 3: Patricia's in front of me with this big hug and
Speaker 3: since he's the boy, I could give him like that
Speaker 3: real kind of strong you know.
Speaker 1: It's so fantastic, by the way, that is so awesome.
Speaker 1: That is awesome, pat I'm just thinking about how many people.
Speaker 1: You know, I was reading the story about you when
Speaker 1: you were young and you went to a stadium and
Speaker 1: saw lies and Ellie saying and it kind of lit
Speaker 1: you up. You were like, man, I could do that.
Speaker 1: Is that kind of how that went down?
Speaker 2: Yes? I mean I was with my with my fabulous
Speaker 2: gay friends, of course, and they said you want to go,
Speaker 2: and I said, sure, let's go.
Speaker 1: So we went.
Speaker 2: And the thing that happened, I you know, I love her,
Speaker 2: She's great. That was, But that wasn't it. The thing
Speaker 2: that happened is we were inside the Colisseum, and the
Speaker 2: Colosseum was empty, and I was in all those seats,
Speaker 2: and I was looking around thinking to myself, huh, I
Speaker 2: can sing at least as good as her, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like, wait a minute, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: I can do this. So that's what it was. I mean,
Speaker 2: it wasn't that we It would have it could have
Speaker 2: been anybody. I mean, I'm happy it was arcas She's
Speaker 2: at all, But I mean it was it had nothing
Speaker 2: to do with that music. It wasn't about musically. It
Speaker 2: was about that I could see. I had the presence
Speaker 2: of mine to think like wait, a minute, I can
Speaker 2: I can do this, I could, you know, and you
Speaker 2: could do it. And that just started the whole thing.
Speaker 2: And I had no plan, no plan. I just you know,
Speaker 2: had a lot of you know, just hood spot. And
Speaker 2: I don't know how many people have.
Speaker 1: Come up to you. I can only imagine and said,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Pat, because of you, I did this,
Speaker 1: or because of you, I did that.
Speaker 2: Women all the time, yeah, when spiders dies, because they're
Speaker 2: always like I call my girls my girls all the time.
Speaker 3: Everywhere we go.
Speaker 2: He goes crazy and goes here the oh god, you know,
Speaker 2: like so cute. I mean they're just darling and yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean it's really it's amazing and I and I
Speaker 2: would I would love to take credit, but it was
Speaker 2: you know, it was a whole movement. It was the
Speaker 2: time of the world. I mean, it was where America
Speaker 2: was going. Everybody was in the same mindset, so just
Speaker 2: right a place at the right time, and there were
Speaker 2: lots of us going at the same time. So it
Speaker 2: was great. It's great to be part of it.
Speaker 1: This this this podcast is called joy one oh one.
Speaker 1: It's something about I mean to me, like, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of things that can bring happiness, and those are
Speaker 1: all external you know, you can and they come and go.
Speaker 1: It's like that I'm happy and now I'm back to me.
Speaker 1: And joy to me is something when you sort of
Speaker 1: just like open your eyes in the morning and you
Speaker 1: look around and nothing's happened, but you feel full.
Speaker 2: You feel like it's gratitude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me what it means to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean right, you thinks by gratitude, I
Speaker 2: mean just absolutely be grateful. I mean, you know, for me,
Speaker 2: it's always like my whole thing is like if you
Speaker 2: get to wake up the next day and breathe, that's good.
Speaker 2: Let's start with that. You know what I'm saying. Every
Speaker 2: day I'm seventy three years old and like every day
Speaker 2: is a good day.
Speaker 1: You know that kind of thing. So yeah, yeah, second chances,
Speaker 1: it's important, second chances.
Speaker 3: The second chance? Is this the second chance? What I
Speaker 3: mean by this is that a lot of people live
Speaker 3: inside their head most of the time. They're not living
Speaker 3: in the present, in the moment, and a lot of
Speaker 3: things spin in their head, goes over and over again.
Speaker 3: So if you could erase those, that's the way you
Speaker 3: can have joy every day and movie every day and
Speaker 3: be humble and grateful. Those are the things that are
Speaker 3: important as far as you take your breath. When you
Speaker 3: wake up like that, it's it should feel special and
Speaker 3: real to you. But a lot of people struggle, you know,
Speaker 3: because they keep that internal loop going and it's not
Speaker 3: a good one. Sometimes it's it's a lot of spirituality
Speaker 3: you kind of need to address. And that's that's the
Speaker 3: that's where your joy comes. True spirituality. You could work
Speaker 3: on yourself and try to be true.
Speaker 2: You know, stuff happens. I mean, it's not like we
Speaker 2: had perfect lives. We had we had lots of stuff,
Speaker 2: you know, lots of career wise, lots of of personal family,
Speaker 2: all this kind of stuff, and things happen. It's not
Speaker 2: going to be perfect. It isn't. But you know, if
Speaker 2: you can just get through it, if you can get
Speaker 2: through and get on the other side, you get another chance.
Speaker 1: Are you optimistic? Pat by nature?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I'm so full all the time.
Speaker 1: So tell me, give me a give me how you
Speaker 1: start your day and how you end your day.
Speaker 2: Wild Spider gets up three hours ahead.
Speaker 3: She's asking you the question you you talk to you.
Speaker 2: I know, but I'm I have to always make the
Speaker 2: timeline like I don't sleep. I don't sleep at night.
Speaker 2: I'm a lunatic. So I go to bed really late,
Speaker 2: so I get up at like seven or seven thirty.
Speaker 2: He gets up really early, so he gets his day going.
Speaker 2: And you know, I stay up all night because that's
Speaker 2: when I do my think, in my writing, my all.
Speaker 2: That's we're in opposite schedules. But you know, it's just
Speaker 2: you know, you just wake up and you just start
Speaker 2: your day, and it's always it's always chaos, it's nuts,
Speaker 2: it's crazy, but it's good.
Speaker 1: Neil, do you have a rhythm, What do you do?
Speaker 1: What's your morning routine?
Speaker 3: I do. I wake up because I want to be awake.
Speaker 3: That's the real difficult time me because everybody's sleeping, and
Speaker 3: it gives me. Here's the philosophy behind it. If if
Speaker 3: you wake up and it's dark, and you go to
Speaker 3: sleep when it's dark, you get two nights in every day.
Speaker 3: So if you think about that, right, So what my
Speaker 3: routine is very simple is I wake up because I
Speaker 3: want to be awake, and I start writing right away.
Speaker 3: I start writing. I drink green tea first day in
Speaker 3: the morning. I since I found out I had silent
Speaker 3: reflux because I'm drinking too much caffeine. I used to
Speaker 3: drink like fifteen twenty company. Yeah, yeah, a lot of
Speaker 3: green tea, and I drank too much of it. So
Speaker 3: I don't do that anymore. But that's the routine. I
Speaker 3: do that, and then a couple hours later, I wake
Speaker 3: Patricia up, and by then I'm ready to go to
Speaker 3: the gym. I hit the gym, and I eat three breakfasts,
Speaker 3: and I'm ready to.
Speaker 1: Eat the three breakfasts.
Speaker 3: I love.
Speaker 2: He's Sicilian, he's starving.
Speaker 1: All eat Yeah. And lastly, tell me about the joy
Speaker 1: and relationship. I mean, you guys put it on display.
Speaker 1: I mean quite frankly, I want anyone who's looking at
Speaker 1: this knows, But what is it about? Because because you
Speaker 1: have to have that in between, it's not what you
Speaker 1: are Pat and what you are Neil, It's what I'm
Speaker 1: seeing between you two. So how do you preserve that
Speaker 1: over all those years? Let me start with Pat?
Speaker 3: What did you just learn, Patricia from your the psychic friend?
Speaker 3: What did you find out that would be helpful?
Speaker 2: You can that we are we are contracted together.
Speaker 3: Who's the what? Who's the protector?
Speaker 1: You are.
Speaker 2: Ahead so as fierce and crazy as I am the
Speaker 2: one thing I I that we just had. We had
Speaker 2: a good friend who issch So we just do it.
Speaker 2: It's like your greeting was really fun. And she just
Speaker 2: said that because I don't, because I'm so worried about
Speaker 2: taking care of everybody else, that the person I take
Speaker 2: care of the leases myself. And that's pretty much true.
Speaker 2: So she said that he is the one, that he
Speaker 2: is the sole person whose job is to protect me.
Speaker 2: So because I don't, I don't spend any time protecting myself.
Speaker 2: I'm protecting everybody else. So it's just a perfect match.
Speaker 2: And it's not hode I sort of God, it's so easy.
Speaker 2: It's not hard at all, and I you know, and
Speaker 2: I'm we are so grateful for that. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: so it just rolls, you know. It's not like I'd
Speaker 2: love to take credit, he'd love to take credit. Where
Speaker 2: it's not like we have to have some kind of
Speaker 2: insight or some brilliance about how to do this.
Speaker 1: We just do it.
Speaker 3: And I can add to this, I can add to this,
Speaker 3: and that is I used to believe that one person
Speaker 3: had to be passive the other one assertive, but that
Speaker 3: was wrong. I realized that was wrong. It took me
Speaker 3: a long time to realize because I'm seventy years old
Speaker 3: and I figured it out years ago. Right, So yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, so so passive and assertive. And in the
Speaker 3: family life, I'm very passive. That doesn't mean I'm not
Speaker 3: assertive in taking, but just passive.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I don't go ahead have a great life. I don't interfere.
Speaker 3: I don't want to. I just want to be that
Speaker 3: guy and I want to be I want to have
Speaker 3: a good time past. But as soon as you open
Speaker 3: that studio door, assertive happens. And She'll tell you. I
Speaker 3: guarantee when you walk through my door and you come in,
Speaker 3: this is my world, this is my this is where
Speaker 3: I live, and I'm on the cross everybody. I put
Speaker 3: myself there too. So very assertive. But I've learned that
Speaker 3: you you need to have balance, except in the studio.
Speaker 3: I'm keeping that at the other part. The other part
Speaker 3: you have to be. You have to little, you have
Speaker 3: to have a balance to it.
Speaker 2: But again, we have fun, you know, I always still
Speaker 2: like each other.
Speaker 3: It comes down to confrontation, you know. I I don't
Speaker 3: want to raise my voice. I'll direct the issue. I
Speaker 3: will talk about it. But I'm not a I'm not
Speaker 3: an instigator. I don't want confrontation. I just don't want it.
Speaker 1: I don't have time for When did you said, Pat,
Speaker 1: you're the one. Pat's mouth things, she's the one. Uh huh.
Speaker 3: He's insane.
Speaker 1: This was a delightful conversation. I want to say thank you.
Speaker 1: I love you guys. You guys are going on tour,
Speaker 1: so you're gonna be We're going to post where that
Speaker 1: is and all of those details. So thank you again,
Speaker 1: so much. Man, I imagine so much about you.
Speaker 2: It's so fabulous.
Speaker 1: I like, thank you. Neil, have a good one. Guys,
Speaker 1: you too, thank you. Wow, that was an awesome conversation
Speaker 1: with Pat Benattar and her husband Neil. You know, it's
Speaker 1: so funny. You know, I know her as a singer,
Speaker 1: I knew him as her husband and fellow musician, but
Speaker 1: I so much more about them. I think what was
Speaker 1: their relationship is kind of what cracked open to me,
Speaker 1: and how after she's seventy three and he's seventy and
Speaker 1: they've been together for decades, just how they keep it
Speaker 1: alive and how they keep it fresh and how they
Speaker 1: keep it interesting. I mean, and I like how they
Speaker 1: find joy. They are just I mean, you know when
Speaker 1: you look at someone and you're like, I want what
Speaker 1: they're having, Like, that's sort of what I feel like
Speaker 1: when I'm listening to them speak. Both of them. I
Speaker 1: always admired Pat Benatara. Now I admire her husband equally. So, Wow,
Speaker 1: what an awesome conversation. I hope there was a lot
Speaker 1: you took away. There's a ton I took away from them,
Speaker 1: and just how they find joy, how they find joy
Speaker 1: in the every day, which is amazing. Okay, you know
Speaker 1: I like to end with a poem, and I love
Speaker 1: me some Mary Oliver, so I'm going to do a
Speaker 1: little Mary Oliver. This one is called don't hesitate. If
Speaker 1: you suddenly and unexpectedly feel joy, don't hesitate, give in
Speaker 1: to it. There are plenty of lives and whole towns
Speaker 1: destroyed or about to be. We are not wise and
Speaker 1: not very often kind, and much can never be redeemed.
Speaker 1: Still life has some possibility left. Perhaps this is its
Speaker 1: way of fighting back. That sometimes something happens better than
Speaker 1: all the riches or power in the world. It could
Speaker 1: be anything, but very likely you notice it the instant
Speaker 1: when love begins. Anyway, that's often the case. Anyway, whatever
Speaker 1: it is, don't be afraid of its plenty. Joy is
Speaker 1: not made to be a crumb. That is a poem
Speaker 1: by Mary Oliver. I want to thank you guys for
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast. We'll have many more good ones ahead.