WEBVTT - Hallelujah 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:23.076 Pushkin. In nineteen eighty four, Elvis Costello released his ninth album, 0:00:23.116 --> 0:00:26.276 Goodbye Cruel World. I bought it the week it came out, 0:00:26.316 --> 0:00:28.876 because I bought every Elvis Costello album back then the 0:00:28.876 --> 0:00:32.116 week it came out. There's a theory in psychology the 0:00:32.196 --> 0:00:34.836 music you listen to at ages nineteen and twenty is 0:00:34.836 --> 0:00:37.956 the music that imprints itself most deeply on your consciousness. 0:00:38.716 --> 0:00:40.836 If you make a list of your favorite songs, you'll 0:00:40.836 --> 0:00:43.996 see what I mean. Anyway, I was twenty in nineteen 0:00:44.036 --> 0:00:47.516 eighty four, so I remember Goodbye Cruel World. I listened 0:00:47.556 --> 0:00:50.956 to it right away. And this episode is about one 0:00:51.116 --> 0:00:55.436 song on that album. It's called the Deportees Club. I 0:00:55.476 --> 0:01:10.636 still have it on vinyl. It goes like this, Oh God, 0:01:10.836 --> 0:01:19.716 it's awful. My name is Malcolm Blavo. Welcome to Revisionist History, 0:01:19.956 --> 0:01:30.996 my podcast about things forgotten or misunderstood. This week, I 0:01:30.996 --> 0:01:33.636 want to go back to Elvis Costello in nineteen eighty four. 0:01:34.836 --> 0:01:37.316 I should say you don't have to know anything about 0:01:37.316 --> 0:01:40.756 Elvis Costello or even like his music to be interested 0:01:40.836 --> 0:01:44.556 in this story. I'm not talking about Deportees Club as 0:01:44.556 --> 0:01:48.956 a song, but as a symbol. I'm interested in understanding 0:01:49.156 --> 0:01:53.076 how creativity works, and I've chosen Depotees Club as my 0:01:53.196 --> 0:01:57.156 case study for the purely arbitrary reason that I'm obsessed 0:01:57.156 --> 0:02:01.076 with it and maybe, hopefully you will be two once 0:02:01.076 --> 0:02:07.716 you're finished. Depote's Club is the second to last song 0:02:07.756 --> 0:02:11.036 on the B side of Goodbye World. The album cover 0:02:11.316 --> 0:02:13.676 is a picture of a little mountaintop with two trees 0:02:13.716 --> 0:02:16.556 on it, with Costello and his band members in various 0:02:16.596 --> 0:02:21.156 strange poses. It's all very eighties. The record was produced 0:02:21.156 --> 0:02:23.636 by two legends of the British music scene at the time, 0:02:23.996 --> 0:02:27.596 Clive Langer and Alan win Stanley. You've probably heard some 0:02:27.636 --> 0:02:30.676 of their work. They did records with Madness, Lloyd Cole, 0:02:30.836 --> 0:02:33.876 David Bowie, virtually all of the great English new wave 0:02:33.956 --> 0:02:36.516 hit songs of the nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties. 0:02:37.076 --> 0:02:40.956 Clive Langer and Allan Winstanley were the guys behind the curtain. 0:02:41.596 --> 0:02:43.756 I don't know if you've ever heard come On Eileen 0:02:43.836 --> 0:02:47.876 by Dexy's Midnight Runners. Come On Eileen. Oh, I swear 0:02:47.956 --> 0:02:52.516 what he means at this moment you mean everything. 0:02:52.956 --> 0:02:53.076 Now. 0:02:53.116 --> 0:02:55.276 I'm a terrible singer, but maybe you could make that 0:02:55.316 --> 0:03:03.796 out that song. Langer and win Stanley Clive Langer knows 0:03:03.836 --> 0:03:07.556 Elvis Costello. Of course they would bump into each other 0:03:07.596 --> 0:03:09.516 in the way that people in a small world always 0:03:09.556 --> 0:03:12.036 bump into each other, and new wave music in the 0:03:12.076 --> 0:03:15.836 nineteen eighties was a small world. At one point, Langer 0:03:15.916 --> 0:03:17.716 has his own band and he was doing a show 0:03:17.716 --> 0:03:20.636 in a riverboat on the river Mersey. Costello calls him 0:03:20.676 --> 0:03:21.596 up and. 0:03:21.476 --> 0:03:23.476 He said, oh, I'll come up and play a few 0:03:23.476 --> 0:03:24.436 songs before you go on. 0:03:25.116 --> 0:03:28.196 That's Langer. We met at a pub on Lawston Road 0:03:28.236 --> 0:03:32.036 in Hackney in North London. He's slightly spidery, with close 0:03:32.076 --> 0:03:35.236 cropped white hair and oversized glasses and the kind of 0:03:35.276 --> 0:03:38.756 graciousness that only the English seemed to possess. An absolutely 0:03:38.796 --> 0:03:42.796 delightful person. My father is English and all older, charming 0:03:42.836 --> 0:03:44.356 Englishman remind me of my father. 0:03:44.876 --> 0:03:48.716 We had some tea. It was all very civilized. Okay, 0:03:48.876 --> 0:03:52.916 back to Elvis Costello. He came up and played all 0:03:52.996 --> 0:03:56.996 his best songs. I mean it's his you know Alison 0:03:57.036 --> 0:03:57.876 and Everything. 0:04:01.276 --> 0:04:06.836 Song, Allison Costello's first big hit. 0:04:09.156 --> 0:04:14.636 Oh then I had to go on and do my 0:04:14.676 --> 0:04:17.236 first ever show with the same lineup, and we weren't 0:04:17.236 --> 0:04:19.596 as good, you know, so I don't know. I didn't 0:04:19.596 --> 0:04:20.556 know quite how to take that. 0:04:21.356 --> 0:04:23.276 If you detect a little bit of friction in that, 0:04:23.556 --> 0:04:27.156 you're not wrong. Alvis Costello is a genius, and like 0:04:27.196 --> 0:04:31.236 a lot of geniuses, he has a really strong personality. 0:04:32.116 --> 0:04:35.276 A few years pass and Costello's record label decides they 0:04:35.316 --> 0:04:38.836 want to broaden his commercial appeal. He has a fanatical 0:04:38.876 --> 0:04:41.716 following among those who know New Way music, but the 0:04:41.796 --> 0:04:44.796 label wants a big commercial hit, so they turned to 0:04:44.796 --> 0:04:48.116 the hit makers Langer and win Stanley, and the two 0:04:48.156 --> 0:04:51.316 of them produce a record for Costello called Punch the Clock, 0:04:51.836 --> 0:04:56.716 which has a number of absolutely exquisite songs, including Shipbuilding, 0:04:56.956 --> 0:04:58.956 which Langer co wrote with Elvis Costello. 0:05:01.756 --> 0:05:10.276 Isis worth the news culture shoes? Fine? 0:05:12.996 --> 0:05:15.636 You collaborate on Punch the Clock? 0:05:15.956 --> 0:05:16.276 Yeah? 0:05:16.276 --> 0:05:18.996 And you like that album? 0:05:19.076 --> 0:05:21.956 Yes? He doesn't, and he doesn't know. 0:05:23.516 --> 0:05:24.876 Why is he unhappy with it? 0:05:25.116 --> 0:05:29.396 I think it was just too commercial at that time, 0:05:29.436 --> 0:05:34.316 and he wanted to write something simpler, more live more. 0:05:34.636 --> 0:05:37.036 You know, he's more of a purist than I am. 0:05:37.356 --> 0:05:40.036 So I was brought up with psychedelic pop in the 0:05:40.076 --> 0:05:42.236 mid sixties, so I was kind of like, Oh, we 0:05:42.276 --> 0:05:44.316 can do this, we can do that you know, and 0:05:44.356 --> 0:05:46.956 he's like, oh, I want it to sound real and 0:05:46.996 --> 0:05:50.596 black pop dinner or something, you know. But and when 0:05:50.636 --> 0:05:52.156 you get that right, that's amazing. 0:05:53.196 --> 0:05:54.956 I want to hear a little bit more about Punch 0:05:55.036 --> 0:05:58.636 the Clock, about whether those differences in perspective had an 0:05:58.676 --> 0:06:00.596 impact on the way the record turned out. 0:06:01.316 --> 0:06:03.676 Not so much. On Punch the Clock we didn't have tension. 0:06:03.756 --> 0:06:05.876 We had tension later, which I'll talk to you about 0:06:06.276 --> 0:06:08.476 what we did have. When we did the playback of 0:06:08.476 --> 0:06:11.356 Punch the Clock, he got quite drunk and played it 0:06:11.436 --> 0:06:12.676 back really loud. 0:06:13.076 --> 0:06:15.316 Of course they did, and how much would you kill 0:06:15.356 --> 0:06:16.236 to a bit in the room with. 0:06:16.316 --> 0:06:21.596 Him, and he kind of freaked out, said it's all rubbish, 0:06:21.996 --> 0:06:24.596 it's terrible, it's terrible, and I was like, I had to, 0:06:25.916 --> 0:06:28.356 you know, calm him down a bit and we all 0:06:28.596 --> 0:06:29.116 carry it on. 0:06:29.996 --> 0:06:32.876 When the time comes to make the next album, Castello 0:06:32.956 --> 0:06:36.556 turns to Langer and win Stanley again, only this time. 0:06:36.676 --> 0:06:38.556 The first thing he said is that I want to 0:06:38.556 --> 0:06:40.636 call it Goodbye Corl World. I think it's going to 0:06:40.636 --> 0:06:44.036 be my last album, which he didn't even tell the band, 0:06:44.476 --> 0:06:45.756 so he was confiding in me. 0:06:46.476 --> 0:06:49.916 They do a first run through recording all the songs live. 0:06:50.876 --> 0:06:52.836 Langer is the producer, the one who's supposed to be 0:06:52.916 --> 0:06:56.756 running the show, but immediately there's an issue. Elvis basically 0:06:56.796 --> 0:06:57.556 takes over. 0:06:57.836 --> 0:07:01.516 Because he's quite a forceful, powerful guy, very eloquent and 0:07:01.756 --> 0:07:05.676 you know, lovely, but you can sort of barge in 0:07:05.756 --> 0:07:09.076 and start changing th hims, you know. So I remember saying, 0:07:09.396 --> 0:07:12.796 thanks for letting me be here to listen to you 0:07:12.796 --> 0:07:16.196 and make your record, you know, but I don't think 0:07:16.196 --> 0:07:18.196 it should go like that. Shouldn't be like this, you know. 0:07:20.116 --> 0:07:22.756 So it was a bit a bit of a standoff. 0:07:22.756 --> 0:07:24.956 I think he went out and bought a half bottler. 0:07:24.796 --> 0:07:27.996 June and I asked Langer and why Costello said this 0:07:28.116 --> 0:07:30.676 was going to be his last album. It's not like 0:07:30.756 --> 0:07:32.556 he was an old man ready to retire. 0:07:33.076 --> 0:07:36.236 He wasn't even thirty. It was just that he'd had 0:07:36.236 --> 0:07:40.116 a lot on his back, you know, he'd been through 0:07:40.156 --> 0:07:43.156 a lot. I don't know if he wanted to carry 0:07:43.156 --> 0:07:45.916 on playing the game at that point. 0:07:46.876 --> 0:07:50.836 The result is disastrous. I hate it. Goodbye cruel World. 0:07:50.836 --> 0:07:53.716 When I first heard it, and remember I'm a massive 0:07:53.716 --> 0:07:56.996 Elvis Costello fan. A couple of years ago, Costello did 0:07:57.036 --> 0:07:59.836 a television variety show called Spectacle. 0:07:59.436 --> 0:08:03.036 Ladies, and gentleman, will you please wag him to the stage. 0:08:03.316 --> 0:08:05.876 I want to live to Nick Lo, And in the 0:08:05.876 --> 0:08:08.676 episode where he interviews Nick Low and Richard Thompson, the 0:08:08.716 --> 0:08:12.436 camera pans the audience and twice you see me grinning 0:08:12.556 --> 0:08:16.876 madly as I said. I'm a massive Elvis Costello fan, 0:08:17.116 --> 0:08:21.036 and believe me when I say goodbye. Cruel world was unlistenable, 0:08:21.916 --> 0:08:26.396 especially Deporte's Club. It was angry and loud and upsetting. 0:08:33.636 --> 0:08:35.436 And I'm not the only one who feels that way. 0:08:42.596 --> 0:08:45.356 In nineteen ninety five, the album is re released by 0:08:45.396 --> 0:08:50.436 Raiko Disc Records, and Elvis Costello writes in the liner notes, congratulations, 0:08:50.796 --> 0:08:53.716 you've just purchased our worst album. You have to kind 0:08:53.716 --> 0:09:04.956 of admire as honesty. Except on that same re release, 0:09:05.396 --> 0:09:08.996 Costello includes a new version of Deporte's Club, one of 0:09:08.996 --> 0:09:11.596 the songs on the original album he hates so much 0:09:12.156 --> 0:09:15.156 he gives it a new melody and plays it by himself. 0:09:15.516 --> 0:09:20.076 An acoustic version shortens the title to DEPORTI fiddles with 0:09:20.116 --> 0:09:23.676 some of the lyrics, and it never appears anywhere else, 0:09:24.396 --> 0:09:27.556 just on this random re release by Raiko disc Records. 0:09:27.676 --> 0:09:30.116 Whatever that is, and I would never have heard it 0:09:30.516 --> 0:09:33.116 except that my friend Bruce ran across it and played 0:09:33.156 --> 0:09:35.956 it for me. Bruce, by the way, was also in 0:09:35.996 --> 0:09:40.916 the audience of that Elvis Casseillo TV show, grinning madly. Anyway, 0:09:41.236 --> 0:09:43.356 Bruce and I used to make mixtapes for each other, 0:09:43.596 --> 0:09:46.596 and he puts this new version Deportee on a mixtape 0:09:46.636 --> 0:09:49.796 for my birthday, and I become obsessed with it. I'll 0:09:49.796 --> 0:09:52.516 bet I sing parts of it to myself almost every day. 0:09:53.236 --> 0:09:55.356 I don't really know why, but it might be one 0:09:55.356 --> 0:09:58.476 of my favorite songs ever. There's a line in it 0:09:58.676 --> 0:10:01.996 that jumps into my head whenever I'm sad. It's so perfect, 0:10:02.676 --> 0:10:06.596 a little couplet about the dissolution of romantic love and 0:10:06.676 --> 0:10:10.036 you don't know where to start or where to stop. 0:10:10.756 --> 0:10:15.636 All this pillow talk is finely talk, king shop. 0:10:18.036 --> 0:10:18.796 Can we play it? 0:10:19.236 --> 0:10:19.956 Yeah? 0:10:20.156 --> 0:10:22.956 I'm in the pub with Clive Langer, the producer of 0:10:22.996 --> 0:10:27.756 the original awful version Deportees Club. Strangely, he'd never heard 0:10:27.796 --> 0:10:30.676 the new, obscure and amazing version of the song he 0:10:30.756 --> 0:10:31.796 produced so long ago. 0:10:32.036 --> 0:10:34.436 I want to hear his new version. 0:10:34.676 --> 0:10:38.836 Yeah, yeah, So I found it on my iPhone and 0:10:38.956 --> 0:10:41.196 Langer leaned his head over the table so that his 0:10:41.276 --> 0:10:43.676 ear would be right next to the tiny phone speaker. 0:10:45.556 --> 0:10:47.556 Is the one in the. 0:10:47.716 --> 0:11:01.836 Air Children nine Club, bar Shend, Fine Classrooms, bunch of charms. 0:11:02.116 --> 0:11:02.756 Send. 0:11:05.676 --> 0:11:18.956 All Chrum that's doing the spent stems and part us. 0:11:30.756 --> 0:11:31.476 There's a tad. 0:11:32.076 --> 0:11:33.036 You know, it. 0:11:34.556 --> 0:11:37.076 Sounds like he's found the song, but he didn't know 0:11:37.356 --> 0:11:39.676 at the time either that That's what I mean, That's 0:11:39.676 --> 0:11:43.396 what's sort of fascinating that. Yeah, either review in the moment. 0:11:44.116 --> 0:11:46.996 No, Sometimes you know, if it's not sounding right, maybe 0:11:47.076 --> 0:11:51.276 I don't know, maybe we were not focused enough. You know, 0:11:51.796 --> 0:11:55.236 maybe we were making a record, but we were miles away. 0:11:55.476 --> 0:11:55.636 You know. 0:11:57.236 --> 0:12:01.676 In the end, they Alvis Costello and his producers all 0:12:01.716 --> 0:12:05.556 thought they had put out something mediocre. What they didn't 0:12:05.636 --> 0:12:09.036 understand until much later was that that mediocrity contained a 0:12:09.196 --> 0:12:13.076 bit of genius. It's just that it hadn't become genius yet. 0:12:14.756 --> 0:12:25.196 And that's what I want to talk about, time and iteration. 0:12:25.836 --> 0:12:29.196 What happens when genius takes its sweet time to emerge. 0:12:30.116 --> 0:12:32.276 I know that this is just one three minute song. 0:12:32.676 --> 0:12:34.956 Maybe you don't even like it, but every time I 0:12:35.036 --> 0:12:37.516 hear it, I think the same thing, which is this 0:12:37.676 --> 0:12:39.596 is something that gives a lot of people in the 0:12:39.716 --> 0:12:44.276 world pleasure, including me, And it almost didn't happen. If 0:12:44.316 --> 0:12:47.996 Elvis Costello doesn't go back and revisit Deportees Club turn 0:12:48.076 --> 0:12:51.676 it into Deportee, we miss all that beauty, and the 0:12:51.756 --> 0:12:59.396 thought of that breaks my heart. There's a theory about 0:12:59.476 --> 0:13:02.996 creativity that I've always loved. It's an idea that an 0:13:03.036 --> 0:13:06.876 economist named David Gailnsen came up with. Gailenson is an 0:13:06.996 --> 0:13:10.036 art lover, and it strikes him when looking at modern art, 0:13:10.276 --> 0:13:13.476 that there are two very different trajectories that great artists 0:13:13.476 --> 0:13:16.756 seem to take. On the one hand, there are those 0:13:16.796 --> 0:13:19.036 who do their best work very early in their life. 0:13:19.476 --> 0:13:22.636 They tend to work quickly. They have very specific ideas 0:13:22.676 --> 0:13:25.316 that they want to communicate, and they can articulate those 0:13:25.396 --> 0:13:31.196 ideas clearly. They plan precisely and meticulously, then they execute boom. 0:13:31.956 --> 0:13:36.676 Galensen calls them conceptual innovators. Picasso is a great example. 0:13:37.236 --> 0:13:39.596 He bursts on the scene in his early twenties and 0:13:39.716 --> 0:13:42.396 electrifies the art world at the turn of the last century. 0:13:42.996 --> 0:13:45.396 I think that someone like Picasso is who we have 0:13:45.516 --> 0:13:52.036 in mind when we think of that word genius. But 0:13:52.156 --> 0:13:55.756 Galenson says, wait a minute, there's another kind of creativity. 0:13:56.276 --> 0:14:01.196 He calls it experimental innovation. Experimental innovators are people who 0:14:01.316 --> 0:14:04.996 never have a clear, easily articulated idea. They don't work 0:14:05.076 --> 0:14:07.956 quickly when they start off. They don't really know where 0:14:07.956 --> 0:14:11.916 they're going. By trial and error, they do endless drafts. 0:14:12.236 --> 0:14:15.756 They're perpetually unsatisfied. It can take them a lifetime to 0:14:15.796 --> 0:14:20.076 figure out what they want to say. Who's a good example. Seison, 0:14:20.956 --> 0:14:24.196 every bit as famous and important a painter as Picasso, 0:14:24.476 --> 0:14:27.476 may be the greatest of the Impressionists who reinvent modern 0:14:27.556 --> 0:14:31.116 art in Paris in the late eighteen hundreds. With Seison's 0:14:31.156 --> 0:14:34.596 genius and Picasso's genius, they could not be more different. 0:14:36.556 --> 0:14:37.996 Why don't we start with your favorite? 0:14:38.196 --> 0:14:40.876 Do you have a favorite in this wild Maybe? My 0:14:41.076 --> 0:14:43.196 favorite at the moment is that one the bay. 0:14:44.036 --> 0:14:47.036 I'm talking to a man named John Elderfield. He's a 0:14:47.116 --> 0:14:49.596 Seeson expert, and he took me to that gallery at 0:14:49.636 --> 0:14:52.116 the Metropolitan Museum in New York where they have all 0:14:52.156 --> 0:14:55.436 of their seisons, easily a few billion dollars worth of 0:14:55.516 --> 0:14:58.996 paintings in one room, and it took only about five minutes. 0:14:59.516 --> 0:15:03.436 Wandering from picture to picture with Elderfield to see experimental 0:15:03.516 --> 0:15:04.316 genius in action. 0:15:04.956 --> 0:15:08.436 So this is one of the many portraits of his 0:15:08.596 --> 0:15:12.316 wife's that says On made, and it's one of four 0:15:12.436 --> 0:15:15.916 pictures done in a short period of time when they 0:15:15.956 --> 0:15:17.396 were living together in Paris. 0:15:18.396 --> 0:15:20.556 The season we're looking at is a picture of a 0:15:20.556 --> 0:15:24.156 middle aged woman seated. Her head is tilted slightly to 0:15:24.276 --> 0:15:27.276 the side. As with a lot of Saison's portraits, we 0:15:27.396 --> 0:15:30.156 can see only one of her ears. He didn't like 0:15:30.236 --> 0:15:33.996 doing the second year. She's sitting quietly, almost floating in 0:15:34.076 --> 0:15:34.436 the chair. 0:15:34.796 --> 0:15:39.396 And I think it's arguably one of the greatest portraits 0:15:39.476 --> 0:15:40.116 that he did. 0:15:40.996 --> 0:15:44.476 It's one of a series of four similar portraits. Elderfield 0:15:44.516 --> 0:15:47.676 says that the first two are a little smaller, looser, 0:15:48.036 --> 0:15:51.116 maybe one trace from another, and then a third much 0:15:51.196 --> 0:15:53.636 like the one we're looking at, but without any background 0:15:53.676 --> 0:15:57.076 painted in just the figure. Is this very typical of 0:15:57.156 --> 0:16:00.036 the way he worked? So he does essentially comes back 0:16:00.116 --> 0:16:01.956 to her four times. 0:16:02.436 --> 0:16:03.396 Yeah, and then he. 0:16:03.676 --> 0:16:04.276 Gets it right. 0:16:05.556 --> 0:16:08.676 Notice my assumption here, because what I was thinking when 0:16:08.716 --> 0:16:10.756 I said that bit about he gets it right the 0:16:10.876 --> 0:16:13.956 fourth time was that if Saeson did four versions, he 0:16:14.076 --> 0:16:17.156 must have been marching towards some kind of preordained conclusion. 0:16:17.676 --> 0:16:20.836 He has an idea and he's perfecting it. But that's 0:16:20.876 --> 0:16:25.196 not seyson Standard practice is you do a sketch, work 0:16:25.236 --> 0:16:28.956 out the problems, do a finished version. Seyson kind of 0:16:28.996 --> 0:16:32.196 starts in the middle. The fourth version of Sezon's portrait 0:16:32.236 --> 0:16:34.636 of his wife, the one we're looking at, is less 0:16:34.716 --> 0:16:36.916 finished than his second and third versions. 0:16:36.956 --> 0:16:39.836 Well, for example, here you can see this unfinished parts 0:16:40.156 --> 0:16:43.476 putatively unfinished parts, I mean like the area of the 0:16:43.676 --> 0:16:46.276 dress there where there's like you can really see the 0:16:46.396 --> 0:16:48.796 grounds of the canvas and all the way through the 0:16:48.876 --> 0:16:51.636 lower part, and you can see who's been putting these 0:16:51.676 --> 0:16:55.316 breast strikes down and not actually filling them all together. 0:16:56.556 --> 0:17:00.356 Sezon didn't work according to some clear linear plan. He 0:17:00.476 --> 0:17:04.676 basically just did versions over and again, iteration after iteration, 0:17:05.196 --> 0:17:09.636 trying to stumble on something that seized his imagination. Many 0:17:09.676 --> 0:17:12.716 of Saizan's paintings are unsigned because he doesn't want to 0:17:12.756 --> 0:17:15.956 admit to himself that he's done. He does portraits of 0:17:15.996 --> 0:17:18.676 his art dealer, Ambrose Villard, and he makes him come 0:17:18.756 --> 0:17:20.396 for a hundred sittings, one. 0:17:20.356 --> 0:17:21.436 Hundred, one hundred. 0:17:21.636 --> 0:17:22.996 Normally they would be how many. 0:17:23.196 --> 0:17:25.636 And now I mean normally for portraits it would just 0:17:25.716 --> 0:17:29.156 be a relatively short number, I mean five or something. 0:17:29.316 --> 0:17:31.716 Why does he need a hundred exactly? 0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:32.556 I mean, what's in? 0:17:32.636 --> 0:17:33.236 What's she doing? 0:17:33.396 --> 0:17:33.916 All the time? 0:17:34.996 --> 0:17:38.836 Saisan was never finished. This is what David Gilinson means 0:17:38.876 --> 0:17:41.996 by experimental genius, and Gillinsen points out that you can 0:17:42.076 --> 0:17:50.836 see this creative type in virtually every field. Herman Melville 0:17:50.876 --> 0:17:53.756 publishes Moby Dick when he's thirty two, writes it in 0:17:53.796 --> 0:17:59.356 a heartbeat. He's Picasso. Mark Twain publishes Huck Finn when 0:17:59.396 --> 0:18:01.636 he's in his late forties, and it takes him forever 0:18:01.916 --> 0:18:05.076 because he ends up obsessively rewriting and rewriting the ending. 0:18:05.596 --> 0:18:10.756 He says on who else does Citizen Kane? When he's 0:18:10.796 --> 0:18:14.276 twenty four? Picasso. Alfred Hitchcock doesn't reach his prime until 0:18:14.276 --> 0:18:17.676 his mid fifties, after he spent his entire career making 0:18:17.756 --> 0:18:21.636 one thriller after another, playing with a genre over and 0:18:21.836 --> 0:18:27.156 over again. Saison. But there's one field where I think 0:18:27.236 --> 0:18:30.956 Galenson's theory plays out the most powerfully, and that's music. 0:18:32.516 --> 0:18:36.956 It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth, the minifold, 0:18:37.556 --> 0:18:53.796 the major lift, the baffled game. Coboluia heluaallulua. 0:18:54.796 --> 0:18:58.556 That's the song Hallelujah. It was composed by the Canadian 0:18:58.676 --> 0:19:02.156 songwriter Leonard Cohen. But basically everybody is in a cover 0:19:02.276 --> 0:19:06.356 of Hallelujah. Rufus Wainwright, You Two, Jeff Buckley, bon Jovi, 0:19:06.636 --> 0:19:10.396 John Kle, Bob Dylan, I could go on. It's featured 0:19:10.396 --> 0:19:13.636 in countless TV and movie soundtracks. If you ride the 0:19:13.676 --> 0:19:16.436 New York City Subway on a regular basis, you'll probably 0:19:16.476 --> 0:19:19.676 hear a busker singing it virtually every day. Like a 0:19:19.716 --> 0:19:22.556 good Canadian, I go to a Canada Day celebration every 0:19:22.636 --> 0:19:25.316 year at Joe's pap in Manhattan, where local artists sing 0:19:25.476 --> 0:19:29.476 cover versions of Canadian songs. Every year someone does a 0:19:29.596 --> 0:19:33.236 version of Hallelujah. Every year. It brings down the house. 0:19:34.196 --> 0:19:36.196 And here's what's interesting about that song. 0:19:36.756 --> 0:19:42.436 It is so not Picasso. It is seison, textbook seison. 0:19:46.716 --> 0:19:49.556 A few years ago, the music writer Alan Light wrote 0:19:49.636 --> 0:19:53.556 an absolutely wonderful book, an entire book on the song Hallelujah. 0:19:54.196 --> 0:19:56.836 It's called The Holy or the Broken, and one of 0:19:56.876 --> 0:20:00.596 the big themes is how peculiar Leonard Cohen is. He's 0:20:00.636 --> 0:20:02.476 a poet, a tortured poet. 0:20:02.956 --> 0:20:05.276 He is a writer in that way that he labors 0:20:05.356 --> 0:20:09.036 over what these lyrics are, line by line, word by word, 0:20:09.196 --> 0:20:12.476 throws a lot away, spends a great deal of time. 0:20:12.516 --> 0:20:15.396 And Hallelujah, famously, out of all of these, is probably 0:20:15.436 --> 0:20:18.596 the song that he says bedeviled him the most. 0:20:19.036 --> 0:20:21.356 That's allan like. He came by my house one day 0:20:21.396 --> 0:20:22.556 to talk about Hallelujah. 0:20:22.956 --> 0:20:26.996 He sort of was chasing some idea with this song 0:20:27.156 --> 0:20:29.996 and couldn't find it and just kept writing and writing 0:20:30.076 --> 0:20:32.996 and depending when he tells the story, wrote fifty or 0:20:32.996 --> 0:20:34.556 sixty or seventy verses. 0:20:34.356 --> 0:20:38.156 Which is for this song, which I mean, you've been 0:20:38.516 --> 0:20:40.796 writing about music for many, many years. Have you ever 0:20:40.956 --> 0:20:43.436 heard of a musician who wrote eighty different? 0:20:43.596 --> 0:20:45.716 I don't think so, I mean, and I don't know 0:20:45.756 --> 0:20:47.876 what that. I don't know if that means variations on verses. 0:20:47.876 --> 0:20:50.276 I don't know if that means entirely like how much 0:20:50.316 --> 0:20:52.316 of this is exaggeration, But it doesn't matter. It's a 0:20:52.396 --> 0:20:52.916 whole other. 0:20:54.276 --> 0:20:54.556 Level. 0:20:54.836 --> 0:20:57.996 Well, there's the famous story that you know, Leonard Cohen 0:20:58.036 --> 0:21:00.796 and Bob Dylan have this kind of mutual admiration thing, 0:21:01.516 --> 0:21:03.956 and apparently they met up in the eighties. At some 0:21:03.996 --> 0:21:06.556 point they were both in Paris and they went to 0:21:06.636 --> 0:21:11.396 meet at a cafe and Dylan said, oh, I like 0:21:11.516 --> 0:21:14.636 that song Hallelujah, which is a fascinating piece of this 0:21:14.716 --> 0:21:17.476 story that really the first person who paid attention to 0:21:17.556 --> 0:21:20.196 Hallelujah as an important song was Bob Dylan. But he 0:21:20.196 --> 0:21:21.596 said to Leonard, you know, I like that song. How 0:21:21.636 --> 0:21:24.076 long did you work on that? And Leonard said, I 0:21:24.156 --> 0:21:26.596 told him that I'd worked on it for two years. 0:21:27.036 --> 0:21:30.196 Which was a lie. Cohen later confessed it took him 0:21:30.236 --> 0:21:33.796 much longer. Then Cohen asks Dylan how long it took 0:21:33.876 --> 0:21:35.156 him to write the song I and I. 0:21:35.836 --> 0:21:37.476 And Bob said, yeah, fifteen minutes. 0:21:38.196 --> 0:21:40.596 Dylan is picasso with Leonard. 0:21:40.636 --> 0:21:42.916 It's not the first thought, best thought school at all, 0:21:43.516 --> 0:21:46.836 and he talks about, you know, being in a hotel 0:21:46.876 --> 0:21:48.916 room in his underwear banging his head on the floor 0:21:49.036 --> 0:21:52.116 because he couldn't solve this song, Hallelujah. 0:21:53.076 --> 0:21:57.596 Leonard Cohen spends five years writing Hallelujah. He finally records 0:21:57.636 --> 0:22:00.236 it in nineteen eighty four. It's for an album called 0:22:00.316 --> 0:22:04.796 Various Positions. When Cohen finishes recording the songs, he takes 0:22:04.836 --> 0:22:07.876 them to his record label, which is CBS. To the 0:22:07.916 --> 0:22:11.636 head of CBS, who's this legendary figure named Walter Yetnikoff, 0:22:11.916 --> 0:22:14.676 who's the guy who releases Michael Jackson's Thriller and Bruce 0:22:14.716 --> 0:22:19.636 Springsteen's Born in USA? Not a dumb guy. Jetnikoff listens 0:22:19.676 --> 0:22:22.636 to Cohen's songs and says, what is this? We're not 0:22:22.756 --> 0:22:26.236 releasing it. It's a disaster. The album ends up being 0:22:26.276 --> 0:22:30.196 released by the independent label Passport Records. It barely makes 0:22:30.236 --> 0:22:32.436 a ripple. And if you go back and listen to 0:22:32.516 --> 0:22:35.836 that first Hallelujah and try to forget how beautiful future 0:22:35.996 --> 0:22:39.876 versions would be, the song's failure makes sense. It's not 0:22:40.076 --> 0:22:44.076 there yet. There's an essay written by Michael Barthel about 0:22:44.116 --> 0:22:47.756 the trajectory of Hallelujah, and he calls Cohen's original version 0:22:48.316 --> 0:23:02.516 so hyper serious that it's almost satire. Ah No, kind 0:23:02.556 --> 0:23:07.316 of turgid, isn't it. But Cohen's not done. He keeps 0:23:07.436 --> 0:23:10.036 tinkering with it. He plays it in concerts, and he 0:23:10.156 --> 0:23:13.316 slows it down. It becomes twice as long. He changes 0:23:13.396 --> 0:23:16.596 the first three verses, leaving only the final verses the same. 0:23:17.236 --> 0:23:20.236 The song becomes even darker this time around. 0:23:20.756 --> 0:23:26.556 Yeah, I'll see your flag on the marvel large. 0:23:27.276 --> 0:23:32.436 But listen, love, love is not some kind of victory Marge, No. 0:23:32.596 --> 0:23:33.396 It's cold. 0:23:34.276 --> 0:23:43.796 Maybe it's severa Brokale how Land, how Land. 0:23:47.356 --> 0:23:49.556 One night, Cohen is playing this version at the Beacon 0:23:49.676 --> 0:23:52.876 Ballroom in New York, and the musician John Cale happens 0:23:52.916 --> 0:23:55.956 to be in the audience. Cayl is a legend, used 0:23:55.956 --> 0:23:59.116 to be in the Velvet Underground, a really pivotal figure 0:23:59.156 --> 0:24:01.516 in the rock and roll a vant garde. He hears 0:24:01.596 --> 0:24:04.316 this song come out of Cohen's mouth and he's blown away, 0:24:05.116 --> 0:24:07.596 so he asked Cohen to send in the lyrics. He 0:24:07.676 --> 0:24:10.236 wants to do a version of it, so Coen factes 0:24:10.316 --> 0:24:14.316 him fifteen pages. Who knows what the lyrics actually are. 0:24:14.356 --> 0:24:17.596 At this point, Cale says that for his version he 0:24:17.676 --> 0:24:20.756 took the cheeky parts. He ends up using the first 0:24:20.836 --> 0:24:24.396 two verses of the original combined with three verses from 0:24:24.436 --> 0:24:28.796 the live performance, and Cale changes some words. Most importantly, 0:24:29.036 --> 0:24:32.756 he changes the theme and brings back the biblical references 0:24:32.956 --> 0:24:34.876