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Speaker 1: Addiction is something that goes way deeper than just the

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Speaker 1: device to which people experience it. Right, whether it's the

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Speaker 1: line of cocaine, the syringe of heroin, the pill of fentanyl,

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Speaker 1: or the website of pornography, addiction is something that goes

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Speaker 1: down to an individual's core, and once they're ravaged by

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Speaker 1: this disease, it seems almost impossible to escape. In my world,

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Speaker 1: I have fourteenage daughters. One of the things that I

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Speaker 1: worry most about is who are the people who are

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Speaker 1: the men that they're going to engage with in an

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Speaker 1: intimate way, and where are those young boys or young men,

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Speaker 1: Where are they learning their interpretation of a healthy relationship. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: we live in a society world today where pornography has

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Speaker 1: taken over many of these young boys' lives and creating

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Speaker 1: an addiction for them. Today, I'm honored beyond measure to

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Speaker 1: welcome a fellow Christian, but more importantly, a warrior against

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Speaker 1: Satan in this horrific disease that's just encompassing the whole world.

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Speaker 1: This man is out there on the front line fighting

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Speaker 1: this fight day in and day out. So I'm honored

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Speaker 1: to welcome Mason Kine from unchained Leader dot com. Mason,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks David, I'm really happy to be here. God's got

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Speaker 2: me on a really crazy ride. And I've noticed that

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Speaker 2: over the journey of the last couple of years that

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Speaker 2: we've started Unchained Leader, he's starting to work more and

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Speaker 2: more through connections with strategic other men, right. And I

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Speaker 2: think that in a time in a society where we

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Speaker 2: see men are not stepping up into the roles that

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Speaker 2: they're designed to live in, there's also this certain group

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Speaker 2: of men that are like, you know what, like we

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Speaker 2: feel called and we're going to answer that call, and

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Speaker 2: we're going to speak truth into lies. We're going to

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Speaker 2: shine light into darkness. And uh you know, it's funny,

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Speaker 2: kind of just a series of connections of seeing you

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Speaker 2: on Sean Ryan's podcast and then senior Instagram page and

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Speaker 2: just reading about what you were about.

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Speaker 3: There was this.

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Speaker 2: Supernatural feeling that I was just like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: David's probably one of those guys, and uh so it's

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm happy to be here, man, and thank

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Speaker 2: you for being one of the few that are willing

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Speaker 2: to speak towards this darkness because it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: taboo topic that most people don't want to touch with

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Speaker 2: this ten foot stick.

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Speaker 3: Ah, are you kidding me?

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Speaker 1: This has been a part of my life since I

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Speaker 1: was a little boy. I mean since you know you

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Speaker 1: find those first playboys and penhouses, you know, at your

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Speaker 1: friend's father's or you know, you know, for us, there

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Speaker 1: was this you know, this place, you know where a

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Speaker 1: rope swing was, and all these older boys would dump

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Speaker 1: these magazines there, and you know, and then you're you know,

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Speaker 1: it's this this sacred thing that you have to go

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Speaker 1: and sneak this, and then you know, to now where

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Speaker 1: it's like directly accessible for kids, any any young kid

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Speaker 1: that's got a laptop, an iPod, or a computer, they

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Speaker 1: can access the most depraved things sexually that humans could

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Speaker 1: ever fathom or create, up to including you know, abuse

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Speaker 1: of sexual situations, pedophilic demonic you know, attacks that you

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Speaker 1: can find on the dark web. I mean, it's gotten

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Speaker 1: to the point now where.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you and you.

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Speaker 1: Know, I'm sure you'll share some of these statistics here

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Speaker 1: in a second, but it's so overwhelming and it's so

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Speaker 1: destructive to the young men and women in the world

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Speaker 1: right now that if we don't start calling it out

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Speaker 1: for what it is.

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Speaker 3: It's only going to get worse.

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Speaker 1: And I think that a direct effect of this is

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Speaker 1: we're seeing that the drop in marriages, the the you know,

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Speaker 1: the intensity of divorce rates, the drop in marriages, people

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Speaker 1: not wanting to get people not wanting to have children,

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Speaker 1: you know, people not being able to formulate healthy relationships,

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Speaker 1: and astonishing numbers. So man, like, the fact that this

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Speaker 1: is what you've you know, dedicated your life to is yeah, I'm.

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Speaker 3: In that same boat. Man.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's all about that protecting the future generations

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Speaker 1: for sure, and even our own. I mean there's I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, you look at the data of the statistics.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a problem not just for young kids.

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Speaker 1: It's for you know, men in their twenties, their thirties,

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Speaker 1: their forties. You know, it falls off a little bit

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Speaker 1: after their fifties, but you know, it's still a massive

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Speaker 1: issue at every level. So yeah, man, I'm in the

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Speaker 1: fight with you on this. It's it's my honor to

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Speaker 1: have you on. Like I said, I love it, man,

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Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting what you said. You know a

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Speaker 1: lot it's times like number one, I think that we

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Speaker 1: needed to address the problem for what it is. It

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Speaker 1: is a all out spiritual assault on us.

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Speaker 2: Right, and so we look at this as you know,

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Speaker 2: oh is it this problem? Not like from a spiritual

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Speaker 2: lens we see throughout scripture. Right, we look at David,

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Speaker 2: we look at Solomon, we look at Samson, like these

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Speaker 2: really powerful men. What is the tool that the enemy

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Speaker 2: used against these men that were dangerous to darkness?

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Speaker 3: Right? You see in David's story it was Bathsheba. Right.

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Speaker 2: You see in Solomon's story like with all of the

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Speaker 2: wisdom in the world, like his fall was women, multiple wives, concubines.

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Speaker 2: You see Solomon like he defeated armies of men and

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Speaker 2: Delilah was his fall.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: And so still to this day, these patterns repeat themselves.

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Speaker 2: And these these men that are supposed to be stepping

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Speaker 2: up into the rightful place of the way that God

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Speaker 2: created them to lead their household spiritually, to lead in

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Speaker 2: the church, to lead in the community. Right, the enemy

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Speaker 2: is using this to create this agreement with them of

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Speaker 2: like starting in childhood, Hey, this is bad. You know

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Speaker 2: that it's bad, but it's our secret, right, And yes,

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Speaker 2: it's exposed like most men are exposed in childhood to

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Speaker 2: some degree. It's becoming increasingly earlier and earlier with the

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Speaker 2: advancement of technology, with technology getting in kids hands sooner. Actually,

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Speaker 2: the statistic now is the average age of exposure is

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Speaker 2: eight to twelve years old.

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Speaker 3: And so that initial exposure just as.

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Speaker 2: The initial exposure, and we work with around nine thousand

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Speaker 2: guys instid of our program. It grows every week, but

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Speaker 2: that's repeated and echoed is pretty accurate inside of our

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Speaker 2: program as well. But I think that it's also important

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Speaker 2: to mention that this isn't just a kid's problem, right,

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Speaker 2: And so the reason that I stepped into to this

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Speaker 2: field is because this was the most painful and deeply

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Speaker 2: challenging struggle in my life as an adult.

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Speaker 3: Right. And so some of the statistics that we see.

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Speaker 2: Number one, porn porn sites are the number one most

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Speaker 2: traffic thing on the Internet. There's thousands and thousands of

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Speaker 2: different porn sites. Barner Research Group is one of the

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Speaker 2: groups that have delve into this is interesting. Not a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of research groups are picking this topic up,

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Speaker 2: but pornography specifically. The last research that they just did,

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Speaker 2: which was published within this last year, sixty nine percent

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Speaker 2: of men consume pornography once a week. And this is

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Speaker 2: an anonymous survey inside of the church, fifty four percent

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Speaker 2: of practicing Christians. So this doesn't mean just somebody that's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm a Christian. This is they're practicing, they're actively engaging

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Speaker 2: in services, they're actively engaging in practices, fifty four percent

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Speaker 2: of men. And really interesting in something that we've seen

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Speaker 2: as well, sixty eight percent of pastors have either struggled

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Speaker 2: or are still struggling with this. And so pornography is

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Speaker 2: one of those things where you know, I was exposed

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Speaker 2: early in childhood, and you know, it became this thing

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Speaker 2: that I tried to quit, try to quit, tried to

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Speaker 2: give it to God, tried all these apps and blockers

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Speaker 2: and everything that everybody tries, you know, tells you that

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Speaker 2: you need to do. And there was this point where

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Speaker 2: I just accepted that this was going to be, you know,

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Speaker 2: my cross to carry or the thorn in my side,

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Speaker 2: or you know these Christianese sayings that people throw out,

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Speaker 2: and I just needed to keep it a secret.

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Speaker 3: And then what's interesting is, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I believed that as I got older that this

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Speaker 2: problem would maybe lessen er, like maybe my sex drive

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Speaker 2: would just go down, and it didn't But something interesting

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Speaker 2: happened as I entered adulthood, as I got married, as

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Speaker 2: I had a kid and became a father, as I

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Speaker 2: started a business and became a business owner, was supposed

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Speaker 2: to be leading.

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Speaker 3: As I started to.

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Speaker 2: Be viewed as you know, a leader or a man

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Speaker 2: inside of the of our church, I started to go, well,

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Speaker 2: it's less acceptable for me to struggle with this problem

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Speaker 2: now as an adult, right, Like this should be a

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Speaker 2: kid's problem. And so the older that I got, the

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Speaker 2: more responsibilities that I got, the harder that it was

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Speaker 2: for me to admit the truth and admit that I

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Speaker 2: actually needed help with this problem. And it's not something

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Speaker 2: that I could conquer alone or with just me and God,

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Speaker 2: which is interesting, right, And so you know the confusion

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Speaker 2: there for me was I felt like, you know, through Christ,

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Speaker 2: all things are possible. Right. But there's also this verse

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Speaker 2: in the Bible that says that we need to confess

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Speaker 2: our sins to one another pray for one another so

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Speaker 2: that we may be healed. And that verse doesn't say,

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Speaker 2: confess your sins to God, pray with God and He's

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Speaker 2: going to heal you, just you and him, right, And

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Speaker 2: so there's this one another connection aspect that was required

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Speaker 2: for me that I didn't get for a long time.

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Speaker 3: What was the thing? Why did you? Why did you not? What?

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Speaker 1: What was the resistance for confessing? I love how you

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Speaker 1: use that idea. I think most people, you know, encapsulate

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Speaker 1: the idea of confession within the Catholic Church. And it's

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Speaker 1: like you're this box and you're, you know, confessing your sins.

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Speaker 1: And I've had multiple people say, well, as a kid,

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Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't a bad kid, but there wanted

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Speaker 1: me to force some confession or whatever, and it lost

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Speaker 1: the gravity of of of what a confessional is really

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Speaker 1: intended to do. Right, So what was the thing that

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Speaker 1: was like, all right, obviously you're conscientious about its impact

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Speaker 1: on your faith, but what was the thing that crossed

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Speaker 1: the line that was like, oh no, hey you my

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Speaker 1: swim buddy, my friend, my pastor my wife, whatever it was, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I've got this challenge.

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Speaker 3: Can you help me with this?

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Speaker 2: The the initial and I think the main reason that

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Speaker 2: I would confess other things but not this is because

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Speaker 2: the way that the enemy works, it's interesting, like he

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Speaker 2: is the tempter and the accuser, right, and so like

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Speaker 2: he tempted me with this at a young age. And

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Speaker 2: then when I gave into the temptation, the accusations, and

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Speaker 2: the voice in my head started, right, you're weird, you're perverted,

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Speaker 2: you're messed up, Like you're one of the only people

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Speaker 2: that struggle with this at this deep of a level. Right,

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Speaker 2: and then it's interesting, like it strengthened as I became

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Speaker 2: an adult, and again like being a business owner, being

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Speaker 2: a husband, being a father, being somebody that from the

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Speaker 2: outside looking in people were like, you know, Mason's got

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Speaker 2: it together, And I was very concerned about making other

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Speaker 2: people painting this illusion that I did have it together.

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Speaker 2: It became even less acceptable, and I started to buy

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Speaker 2: into the sly at an even deeper level that I

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Speaker 2: got to be one of the only, you know, strong

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Speaker 2: Christian men that look like they have it all together,

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Speaker 2: that have, you know, a beautiful wife and an amazing child,

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Speaker 2: they have a successful business, that are still struggling with

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Speaker 2: this childish thing in my mind. Right, there was this

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Speaker 2: point in my life where my marriage was just breaking

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Speaker 2: and it was headed towards imminent destruction.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: My wife and I had argued, but the arguments shifted

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Speaker 2: from contention to like logistics, right, Like when we get divorced.

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Speaker 3: How often am I going to get to see my kid?

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Speaker 2: And there was this this just thought of At this point,

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Speaker 2: pornography was still a secret, right, And I think that's

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Speaker 2: what weighed on me most, is I was living one

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Speaker 2: life to everybody else, and then I was living this

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Speaker 2: separate secret life that was I just knew about, right,

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Speaker 2: And I wondered if this secret life had something to

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Speaker 2: do with my marriage falling part right, because she doesn't

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Speaker 2: know about it, like it's just it's just me and

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Speaker 2: my phone, right, like I do this in secret.

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Speaker 3: Could these things be connected?

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Speaker 2: And I realized that it didn't really matter if they were,

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Speaker 2: and if that's what was causing my marriage to fail,

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Speaker 2: like whether my marriage was amazing or it failed, like

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Speaker 2: if I had this secret, and if I felt guilt

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Speaker 2: and shame and like I was stuck and I couldn't

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Speaker 2: get out, I didn't want to live another day like that, right,

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Speaker 2: And and at that point, my pain of staying the

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Speaker 2: same became greater than the pain of admitting that I

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Speaker 2: have a problem and dealing with the consequences of it.

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Speaker 2: And so that was the way that I saw it

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Speaker 2: in my mind. But really, if we look at this

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Speaker 2: from a thirty thousand foot view, what happened is I

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Speaker 2: was being really prideful, right, Like I had this this

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Speaker 2: perception that I I wanted everybody to view me from.

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Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time trying to, you know,

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Speaker 2: formulate this perception, and it was really prideful like I

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Speaker 2: and biblically like I had to step into humility, which

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Speaker 2: I didn't understand I was doing at the time. I

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Speaker 2: was just broken, right, pride becomes comes before the fall,

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Speaker 2: and like humility is a prerequisite for healing. And so

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Speaker 2: that moment where I admitted that I had a problem,

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Speaker 2: I started trying to seek help. It was a long,

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Speaker 2: really painful journey, but that started the shift of exiting

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Speaker 2: the bondage that I was in and like the darkness

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Speaker 2: that I was trapped in, the invisible present that I

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Speaker 2: felt like I was in, to going through this journey

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Speaker 2: of discovering why I actually had this problem, right because

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Speaker 2: it wasn't just a behavior issue or a willpower problem

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Speaker 2: as much deeper than that. And then on the journey

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Speaker 2: that eventually led to unchained leader and you know, nine

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Speaker 2: thousand plus guys that have been you know, walked through

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Speaker 2: through our process at this point.

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Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's the crux of this whole thing, right,

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Speaker 1: is getting to that point where you can be humble

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Speaker 1: in your own sin. And I think that's the transform

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Speaker 1: that's the transformative place, you know. I remember, for me

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Speaker 1: a big component of this I had had my first daughter.

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Speaker 1: I was traveling back and forth, you know, speaking and

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Speaker 1: doing these engagements and really talking about you know, these

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Speaker 1: core motivational ideas. One of them is learning to embrace fear.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I was sitting in an air in

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Speaker 1: the airplane flye and behind.

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Speaker 3: Me this this woman.

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Speaker 1: Probably a college aged girl, struck up a conversation with

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Speaker 1: a woman next door and they were chatting and I

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Speaker 1: don't know how it came up, but pornography came up

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Speaker 1: in some interesting way, and she made a comment that

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Speaker 1: you know what, it really effectively me because my whole

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Speaker 1: life growing up, my father had playboys and penthouses, you know,

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Speaker 1: in his bathroom or in his closet, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was me and my sisters and it all affected us.

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Speaker 1: We never said anything, and then when we all kind

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Speaker 1: of got older, we it kind of came out, and

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Speaker 1: it was very tumultuous and we were very angry. You

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Speaker 1: know that that was a presence in our in our

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Speaker 1: home and in our life, and we wondered.

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Speaker 3: Why our father, you know, was like that.

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Speaker 1: And so I was like, holy cow, this is something

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Speaker 1: that I need to think about in address. And it's

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Speaker 1: you know, then all of a sudden, you as you

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Speaker 1: peel back right those layers of sin, and you you

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Speaker 1: are as you like to so adroitly describe it, as

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Speaker 1: as you unlock those chains that because you're a slave

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Speaker 1: to it. And I love that that metaphor. I think

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Speaker 1: it's brilliant. You start to realize, well, like you said,

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Speaker 1: why is it so common? Why is it a default

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Speaker 1: setting for me when I'm lonely or I go home

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Speaker 1: at night or whatever, I'm on the road or whatever

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 3: Why is it so prevalent?

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Speaker 1: And I think you know one aspect is and which

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Speaker 1: wh's amazing when you say the number nine thousand men

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Speaker 1: that are a part of your organization, you know, you

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Speaker 1: start to go, well, wow, this is really common. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not isolated in this this this this this servitude

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Speaker 1: towards sin. So what have you learned not only with yourself,

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Speaker 1: but as you keep bringing more men into the fold, right,

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Speaker 1: into this place. Is this you know, are the stories

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Speaker 1: similar or is it you know, what are the commonalities

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Speaker 1: across all of all of all men that have struggled.

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Speaker 2: Or suffered or do suffer with it. Yeah, So I'll

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Speaker 2: speak to two things. One just on the fact that

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Speaker 2: it has on your household as being the spiritual leader.

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Speaker 2: If you're consumed in a world of pornography and you're

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Speaker 2: leading a household, that is something that you're struggling with,

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Speaker 2: and if you do not transform that, you end up

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Speaker 2: transmitting it in one way, shape or form.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: And so that's why a lot of times we see

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Speaker 2: that guys that come into our program, they start to

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Speaker 2: discover that this has been a generational thing and one

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Speaker 2: of the things that we encourage guys to just latch onto,

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Speaker 2: like this will run into in your family until it

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Speaker 2: runs into you if you make the decision to transform

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Speaker 2: this rather than transmit it to the next generation.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: And so that might be transmitted in a one to

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Speaker 2: one pornography problem, right, It may also be transmitted into

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Speaker 2: another way that will spiral into some other type of addiction,

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Speaker 2: which is the emotional disconnect in the household. And so

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Speaker 2: that ties into the common thread of all of the

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Speaker 2: guys that the nine thousand that we're working with currently

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Speaker 2: or have worked with to this point, this down to

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Speaker 2: an emotional root problem. This is not a hey, I

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Speaker 2: have a lustful eye. This is not a hey, I

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Speaker 2: have an abnormally high sex drive. Hey, I'm just perverted.

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Speaker 2: Like these I am statements are things that guys come

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Speaker 2: in believing as the problem, because that's the belief that

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Speaker 2: they an enemy is planted in their ear. But really,

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Speaker 2: what we discover and common thread through all these guys,

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Speaker 2: it's actually a pain problem.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: And so when you become curious about why you have

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Speaker 2: this problem, rather than trying to just pray it away

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Speaker 2: or get rid of it, two things happen. Number One,

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Speaker 2: you start to understand that it is a pain problem.

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Speaker 2: And there's some really consistent patterns when you become curious

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Speaker 2: about it, Like when you get really stressed out high stress, right,

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Speaker 2: you tend to want to medicate and escape reality, and

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Speaker 2: pornography becomes a mechanism to do that, right, or just

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Speaker 2: hyper sextualized activities that get you to disconnect from reality momentarily. Right,

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Speaker 2: This giant dose of dopamine you're actually using as a

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Speaker 2: drug and the dopamine disconnects you from what's going on,

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Speaker 2: and so you get the medication and sedation that you

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Speaker 2: were looking for. It's actually a really good method to

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Speaker 2: accomplish that, right. The problem is the consequence on the

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Speaker 2: back end compiles in a lot of different ways, and

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Speaker 2: these guys come in and they start to realize that

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Speaker 2: there were some things that happened in childhood. They're causing

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Speaker 2: them to be triggered at an ultra high level when

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Speaker 2: they get stressed. Right, and so when you're getting really

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Speaker 2: stressed and you go, hey, like I can't manage this,

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Speaker 2: my brain wants to escape, that's not the problem, right,

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Speaker 2: that dynamic. The problem is why are you getting so triggered?

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Speaker 2: Why are you getting so disregulated? Well, typically we see

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Speaker 2: that external environments and things that are going on are

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Speaker 2: triggering deeper roots that were planted throughout childhood. This night

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Speaker 2: might be a belief of inadequacy from something that happened

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Speaker 2: at eight. Right, This might be a belief of like

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Speaker 2: somebody's going to abandon me or I'm gonna be abandoned

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Speaker 2: in the situation, right, something that happened at ten, eleven, twelve.

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Speaker 2: We have like my earliest memory actually ended up tracing

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Speaker 2: back to five. It was a repressed memory. And the

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Speaker 2: thing is, most adults never go back to these childhood

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Speaker 2: developmental years where most of our programming happens from a

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Speaker 2: place of intentionally unpacking it. Right, men, especially, we go

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Speaker 2: this stuff happened in childhood. I'm done with those childish things.

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Speaker 2: We box it up and we shove it, you know,

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Speaker 2: in the basement of our minds, and we never go

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Speaker 2: back and readdress it. And these are the very things

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Speaker 2: that hold the roots of these addictive behavior patterns, whether

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Speaker 2: again it's pornography or alcohol, or maybe it's consumer addiction

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Speaker 2: or gambling. Right, we see that these are all attached

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Speaker 2: to the same die and amic of these unhealed root problems.

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Speaker 3: David Rutherford, my best friend. Welcome to the show, Sean.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be here.

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Speaker 3: What's Up? Team?

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Speaker 1: I recently had the incredible honor of joining my best

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00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: friend Sean Ryan on his show, and as a token

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00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: of my appreciation for him and his audience, I want

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Speaker 1: to do something special for you. For thirty years, I've

393
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: been helping individuals and teams to discover how to utilize

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Speaker 1: pain and suffering to propel their performance. From the World

395
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Speaker 1: Series champions the Boston Red Sox to elite operators, top.

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Speaker 3: Entrepreneurs and business owners.

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Speaker 1: I want to offer the first three foundational Frog Logic

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Speaker 1: courses that I've been developing for the past decade. Embrace Fear, Forging,

399
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Speaker 1: self Confidence, and Team Life. These courses come straight from

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Speaker 1: the painful stories and lessons learned I talked about on

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00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: Shawn's podcast, and they also emerged from the thousands of

402
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: people I've instructed. Normally these courses are two hundred dollars each,

403
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405
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Speaker 1: of one. Please go to David Rutherford dot com or

406
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: click the link in the description to get the bundle.

407
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Speaker 3: Thank you very much, hu Yah and God's speed. Wow.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think there is that that apprehensiveness, and

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Speaker 1: all people in particular men obviously is to you know,

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Speaker 1: is to unpack that stuff. You know, they're what we're

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Speaker 1: beginning to find. And a lot of the guys that

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Speaker 1: are killing themselves, these gy multiple tour combat veterans, it's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the what they experienced down range, Whereas it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of trauma took place in these young in

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Speaker 1: these when they were young boys in their lives, which

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Speaker 1: drove them into this desire to live in a more safe,

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Speaker 1: protective capacity they could protect and be you know, the night,

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Speaker 1: if you will, from that that archetypical need, that heroic archetype.

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Speaker 1: And then they get out and that fades away, and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff that was just brewing comes back with

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Speaker 1: a vengeance, and that's what collapses them, you know, And

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Speaker 1: whether they want to or not, I suppose with the

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Speaker 1: stories that you're hearing. And obviously nine thousand is a

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Speaker 1: lot more than you know, a couple hundred. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's a massive amount of people. You've gotten to a

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Speaker 1: place where you have a system. How did the system emerge?

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Speaker 1: And then let's talk about what the system is to address.

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Speaker 1: The system emerged out of a debilitating level of frustration.

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Speaker 2: Because when I reach that breaking point of I don't

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Speaker 2: want to live another day like this, I was.

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Speaker 3: I was.

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Speaker 2: I moved from suicide ideation to a place of I

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Speaker 2: have a this it's written in one of the books

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Speaker 2: that I wrote. But I was in the in my

435
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: garage on a cooler and I knew my pistol was

436
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 2: in my truck, and I stood up and started walking

437
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 2: over to my pistol, right like, that's that's where I

438
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 2: was at. And in that moment, the shift happened where

439
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 2: I decided, you know what, like, I'm going to go

440
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: all out on solving this problem. The thing is, the

441
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 2: frustration built because I started trying all of the stuff

442
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: that other people told me to do, right, all of

443
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: the information that was out there. I ended up in

444
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 2: a sex addicts anonymous group, right. I ended up installing

445
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: all of the blockers, installing all of the filters, getting

446
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: an accountability partner, went all out on praying more, reading

447
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 2: my Bible more, you know, going to Bible studies on

448
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 2: top of Sunday services. And I was trying all of

449
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: these things to solve this negative behavior that I had.

450
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: And I didn't actually start to heal until I was

451
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: in a session with a trauma informed counselor and they

452
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: asked me a question of what if the behavior is

453
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 2: not the problem? What if there's something deeper that's driving it? Wow,

454
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: And that started the journey of diving into childhood, diving

455
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: into all of these other things. And so when I

456
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 2: realized that I started to heal on my own. I

457
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: started to heal my marriage, and I got to this

458
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: place where I just felt like God was calling me,

459
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: Like there was no vision of unchained leader at this point.

460
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: It was just God was calling me to share my story.

461
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 2: And so I started talking about it on social media

462
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: and people started asking me like, well, what do you do,

463
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: Like what did you do that created success? And I

464
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: was like, well, I can give you one hundred things

465
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: that didn't work in like two years of miser misery

466
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: and frustration of trying all the stuff that didn't work,

467
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: but I couldn't map out like hey, you need to

468
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,719
Speaker 2: go to this specific guy here, and then you need

469
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 2: to go to this program, and then you need to

470
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: read this book and this book and this book, like

471
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 2: you know. The way that I figured it out was

472
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 2: kind of like a detective in the basement with a

473
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: bunch of pictures and thumbtacks and some red yarn, right, yeah,

474
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: And so I took a look back at like, hey,

475
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: here's all of the stuff that didn't work, and then

476
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: here's the stuff that did work. And the stuff that

477
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: didn't work was behavior modification, right, and so this isn't

478
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: a behavior problem, the behavior showing up because of some

479
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: deep root issues. And so inside of our program, we

480
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 2: bring guys in with the number one thing is eliminating

481
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 2: the guesswork, right, And so what we did is we

482
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 2: set up a ninety day intensive where every single day

483
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: all of the guests were it's taken out week one.

484
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 2: Day one, you have a video module to walk it's

485
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: to explain something strategic that's going to be used in

486
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 2: day three for all the way to ninety you have

487
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: some self reflection work to do that's going to cause

488
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 2: you to start discovering what is the root issue, what's

489
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: my unique root issue? Like what are the things that

490
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: I need to know to even find the root issues

491
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 2: that I have? And then we stacked on top of

492
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: that multiple group coaching sessions a week, right, and so

493
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: the trajectory of like the deep work is mapped out

494
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: every single day. You don't have to think about it.

495
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: I'm guiding you through the exact process that helped me.

496
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: And then I think one of the key parts of

497
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: this is the group coaching in the community. Right. One

498
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: of the things that we see and you've probably experienced

499
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: as well, is that connection is the opposite of addiction. Right,

500
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: An addiction thrives in isolation and seclusion. And when, like me,

501
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: you believe that you're the dirtiest, nastiest, most messed up,

502
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: most perverted man on the planet and you're the only

503
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: one that deals with this, and you step into a

504
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: coaching call with over one hundred other guys that are

505
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: battling the same exact thing, and guys that are walking

506
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: into three four years of freedom from the temptation of it,

507
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: and you start to be able to see what's possible.

508
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: That starts to break some things inside of you, right,

509
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: That starts to break some of these chains that are

510
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: holding you back. And then it also puts you into

511
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: an environment where we're coaching men on how do you

512
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: actually have real brotherhood and relationships with other men? Because

513
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: you know, we start to believe, like I think that

514
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: at least I believe they'll speak for myself, that this

515
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: is something that I should be naturally good at. It

516
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: was actually a skill that I had to develop and

517
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: be intentional with. Right, And so now we're guiding men

518
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: into being able to walk number one in a way

519
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 2: that they're not still dealing with all of these subconscious

520
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 2: root issues that have been woven throughout the fiber of

521
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: their lives by the enemy intentionally.

522
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: This is a spiritual attack on them. Right.

523
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: They're also able to now walk in community and brotherhood

524
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: that some of them didn't even know that they needed, right,

525
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: Like I didn't know that I needed that type of

526
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: relationship where I can be fully known and fully loved. Right,

527
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: And so the coaching side of things in the community

528
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: are a big part of that. And then the other

529
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: thing that we're doing now that we have nine thousand

530
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: guys and this grows by about one hundred, one hundred

531
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: and fifty guys a week that jump into the program,

532
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: we have big pockets of people and most major metropolitan

533
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: areas in the US, a lot in Europe, Australia, and uh,

534
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: we're getting these guys to get together on the weekends

535
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 2: and like form in person meetups and in person relationships,

536
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: cause the online relationships are really powerful. And then when

537
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: you're we're also able to plug people into you know,

538
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 2: sitting across the coffee table from somebody, or going to

539
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: top golf or what most of our guys do, go

540
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: shooting together or something fun like that, right, shooting fish,

541
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: and you know that that deepens the level of number

542
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: one healing, but then also deepens the level of stability

543
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: that you have walking in freedom now out of the darkness.

544
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: Wow, I just I think you're gonna have one hundred

545
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: thousand guys in the next five years.

546
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 3: Man, I mean, I just think this is such a

547
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 3: massive issue.

548
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: And just to reiterate for you know, some of the

549
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: statistics that I found in prep for this.

550
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 3: You know this is from Grock.

551
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: You know that estimates four percent of all websites globally

552
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: are dedicated to pornographic content, suggesting millions of sites potentially

553
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: over ten million active ones based on total Internet websites,

554
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: which is about two hundred and fifty million. The older

555
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: data from twenty ten. This was fascinating, indicated at least

556
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: forty two thousand sex related sites among the top one

557
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: million most visited websites annual inviews, impressions, and downloads.

558
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: This was staggering.

559
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: Global porn sites receiving enormous traffic, with porn Hub alone

560
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: reporting one hundred and thirty billion visits annually based on

561
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: ten point eight billion monthly. Other top sites like XV

562
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: video or x videos or xnxx at another one hundred

563
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: and twenty eight billion combined, pushing top platforms over two

564
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty eight billion a year. I broke it

565
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: down by demographics young adults, fifty seven percent of those

566
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: age eighteen to twenty five watching porn at least monthly.

567
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: You had the weekly demographics by gender, sixty nine percent male,

568
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: forty percent female. You know, and it just goes on

569
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: and on and on. And then this was the other one.

570
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: This one was the other staggering. And this is annual

571
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: revenue of paid porn sites. The global adult entertainment market

572
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: market including paid porn estimates at seventy one point sixty

573
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: three billion dollars for twenty twenty five US pornographic websites

574
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: generating one point three billion annually. That is a that

575
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: is an army. That's more than an army. I mean,

576
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: that's the statistic that really stood out to me. You

577
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: said two hundred and thirty eight billion. I believe it

578
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: was total traffic.

579
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: Yep, Okay, there's eight billion people on the planet, that's right.

580
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: And so we look at like these statistics of like

581
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: seventy eighty percent and then like the frequency of which

582
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: they're visiting, like eight billion are providing this two hundred

583
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: something billion in traffic, right, and so like that, I

584
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 2: think that comparison of those two statistics alone shows number one,

585
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: how many people are actually visiting, and like to if

586
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: we look at that, and this is what we found

587
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: from because we get a lot of feedback because we

588
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: do a lot of marketing, and like we can see

589
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: direct feedback from that. We have a running joke in

590
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: the company where it's like, you know, if I and

591
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: not to joke about you know, addiction, but we we

592
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: do a little bit.

593
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: But like if I say you don't have some humor

594
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 3: in this, then that's right, that's right.

595
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: You know, I tell our team it's like, man, if

596
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 2: I throw a rock into a random crowd of people,

597
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: the chances of me hitting somebody in the head with

598
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: somebody that has this problem is pretty high, right, And

599
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: we see that, we see that in our marketing. And

600
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: so these numbers of you know, sixty nine percent of

601
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: men visit once a week, fifty four percent of practicing Christians,

602
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: and sixty eight percent of pastors have struggled with it

603
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: or currently are. What I've seen is the real number

604
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: of people that are answering if they if everybody answered

605
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 2: honest yes, the numbers are much much higher than this, right,

606
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: I agree, And so like one thing, all of these numbers,

607
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: what's the point, Like, what's a really powerful point that

608
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: we can bring to the listeners, Like you're not alone, Yes,

609
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 2: you're and good company with people that are struggling with this, right,

610
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 2: And like the decision is am I going to continue

611
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: to try to solve this alone or with just me

612
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: and God? Or like whatever you've been doing, or are

613
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 2: you going to do something different to get something different

614
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: and go I need help, which men are not naturally

615
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: good at. It's very challenging to humble yourself to that

616
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 2: degree and get a change by doing something different, right,

617
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: And so like every person struggling with this, men and women,

618
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 2: we have a couple hundred women that work with our

619
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: Women's coach and the women's Sexual Addiction program. At the

620
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: point that you're willing to have the humility to go

621
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: I need help, that's the decision that you have in

622
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: the fork of the road. And like you're either a

623
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 2: going to intentionally decide that that's.

624
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 3: Like why not? Now? Right?

625
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,479
Speaker 2: Like what are you what do you need to wait

626
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: for in order to get to that point? Because the

627
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: truth is there's a large population that take this to

628
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: the grave.

629
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: Like I swore to.

630
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: You know, there were things that I did, There were

631
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: things that I was doing inside of this addiction in

632
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 2: my life that I was like, those things are going

633
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: to the grave with me, right And I started to

634
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 2: realize that I was as sick as all of the

635
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: secrets that I was keeping, right and so like in

636
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: the listener's mind right now, it's like, you know, what,

637
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: what are the secrets that you're keeping in How sick

638
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 2: are those making you?

639
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 3: Right now?

640
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 1: I think that's the hardest thing that we all do,

641
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: Like what do we do We have those breakdowns, those

642
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: moments where we give into the temptation right where satan

643
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: whatever you want to describe it, it forces the hand,

644
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 1: if you will. And then immediately after, like you discuss,

645
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: you you're you know, you're consumed with shame and guilt.

646
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: But then you step out the door and you go

647
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: right back into your life and you look it out,

648
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: you bury it, and.

649
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: You keep going.

650
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: But as you said, it eventually manifests and it's going

651
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: to it's gonna it's going to play out in a

652
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: way that you don't expect it.

653
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: And ninety nine percent of those are going to be negative.

654
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: I have a question for you, what do you what

655
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: do you say to those people who say, you know

656
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 1: what you know, what do you care?

657
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: Uh?

658
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: You know, this is whatever I do in the confines

659
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: of my own home, you know, just let me do it.

660
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: That's my own right, that's my own you know, desire.

661
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: And if if I want to look at porn, why

662
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: why can't I look at porn?

663
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: Why?

664
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: You know, what's the big Yeah, what's interesting, man, is

665
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 2: is you're They're totally right. You can do whatever you want, man,

666
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 2: And and like that's where free will sometimes gets you

667
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: in trouble, right, And and here's the thing, man, Like

668
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 2: my goal and like what God put on my heart

669
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 2: was never to go You're you're wrong for looking at porn,

670
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: and porn's bad and all of this stuff. Like there's

671
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: so many people that are recognizing that pornography and like

672
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: their hyper sexualized mind. And here's the other thing, just

673
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: real quick and then I'll get back to this. But

674
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 2: this isn't just porn. Like a lot of the guys

675
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: that are like, I had an affair. I cheated on

676
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: my wife when we were separated, right, that was one

677
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: and the same of the pornography problem. A lot of

678
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: the guys that are coming in or are habitually visiting

679
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: massage parlors, right, some of the guys coming in are

680
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: purchasing sex. Right, Like there's there's again nothing new under

681
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: the sun. This is all stuff that was happening in

682
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: biblical times still happening now. It's all part of the

683
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: same problem. So like the question that I would propose

684
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 2: to that person that's like, you know, oh, this is

685
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: you know, my business. I can do whatever I want.

686
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: It's like, have you actually intentionally sat down and counted

687
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: the cost of the impact that it's having on you? Right,

688
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: And so just one of the things that happened to me,

689
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: And there's there's a thousand of them if you really

690
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: like it down and intentionally unpack it. But when I

691
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: would swear and pray and like commit to God, like

692
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 2: I'm never doing this again, and then I would find

693
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: myself back to the point of just having watched porn,

694
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 2: back to the point where I get the emotional high

695
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: turns like the dopamine high turns into a crash, and

696
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 2: I'm going, you freaking idiot, why did why do you

697
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: keep doing this? Why did you do that again? Listen

698
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: to the self talk, right, Like we think about our

699
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 2: relationship with other people, we think about our relationship with God,

700
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: But have you considered your relationship with yourself and how

701
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: that impacts you? And so if your self talk to

702
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: yourself and your relationship with yourself because of this habitual

703
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 2: resist fail cycle that you can't get out of and

704
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: you can't overcome, is you idiot? Why do you keep

705
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: doing this? What's wrong with you?

706
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 3: Well? I carried that into being a father. I carry

707
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 3: that into being a husband.

708
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: I carry that when things got really tough in business

709
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: and I needed to lean in. My tendency now was

710
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: to lean out because I viewed myself from an identity

711
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: that the enemy wanted me to view myself in, not

712
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: who God created me to be. And if we look

713
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 2: at you know, again going back to what you were

714
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 2: talking about, of these guys that you know, have these wounds,

715
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: they enter the service, they want to live into this

716
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: archetype or this identity of being the hero, being the savior.

717
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 2: They get out they realize that they're not able to

718
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: do that. There everything comes crashing back down. Originally, what

719
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: was that that was an identity lie that they believed

720
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: they tried to live out. They realized that they weren't

721
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 2: able to conquer or like, live into that in reality.

722
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 2: And now the identity becomes I'm not important enough, I'm

723
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 2: not valuable enough to live another day, and they commit suicide. Right,

724
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: And so we look at this as a porn problem,

725
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: an addiction problem. This is as serious as life and death.

726
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: The amount of guys that have gone along the same

727
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 2: journey of I'm broken, I'm this, I'm believing in an

728
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 2: identity of myself that is just so far out of

729
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: alignment of like who God's created me to be. I'm

730
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: not worthy of living in another day. I don't matter

731
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 2: to anybody else, listen to like I am, I am,

732
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 2: I am.

733
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: That's repeated in scripture a lot, right.

734
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 2: They buy into that to the degree that they get

735
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: to the point where they take their own lives right.

736
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: And the amount of guys that have done that from

737
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: you know, getting out of the service, believing all these

738
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: things about the traumas and stuff that they haven't intentionally

739
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: worked through. And the same thing happens with the guys

740
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: that have been struggling with the secret addiction their entire

741
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 2: lives and are so filled with shame that like, when

742
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 2: I was sitting on that cooler man, like, I was

743
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 2: praying that God would send another husband that was like

744
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: could be the husband that went my wife needed, and

745
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 2: would send a father that could be the father that

746
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: my kid needed, because I knew that they needed that,

747
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: not me, because I was so filled with shame and

748
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 2: like living in such a broken identity that I, like,

749
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,800
Speaker 2: I just wanted some other man that was able to

750
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: be the spiritual leader that they needed to step in

751
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: and take care of them because I couldn't.

752
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 3: Wow.

753
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's a powerful statement right there, And that

754
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: is the crux, right is how do we become the

755
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: best version of ourselves when we strip away all all

756
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: of these temptations to where we can be honest with ourselves.

757
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: And who we are and what we need to be.

758
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: Right, Why do you think this is such a massive

759
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: problem societally? And why does it keep growing? Why does

760
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: the numbers keep getting higher and higher and higher.

761
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: Mold grows best in darkness, right, And so I think

762
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 2: one of the main things, and we'll just talk about

763
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 2: we'll talk about society in general, but then also in

764
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: the Christian culture, like this is kind of a taboo

765
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 2: topic that people don't really want to talk about from

766
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,479
Speaker 2: the pulpit, right, Like how many how many Sunday morning

767
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: sermons have we heard on the topic of pornography and

768
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: sexual addiction?

769
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 3: Right, there's there's not a whole lot.

770
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: And so like, one of the things that God put

771
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 2: on my heart is like, just tell the truth of

772
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 2: your story, number one, Like, let everybody know how broken

773
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 2: and what a you know, kind of a piece of

774
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: crap you were for quite a while and just lied

775
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 2: to everybody, right, Like number one, share that, But number two,

776
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 2: let's shine light in these corners of darkness that we're

777
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 2: we've just like for far too long, we've been allowing

778
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: the enemy to just operate, right, And so like there's

779
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: there's this domain of shadows even inside of the church,

780
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: where it's like if we don't address it and we don'

781
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,239
Speaker 2: want to talk about it, the more that we don't

782
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 2: address it and don't talk about it, the more taboo

783
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 2: and shameful it becomes. And so there's just this this

784
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: entire layer that we're giving the enemy this territory to

785
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 2: attack men and women in secret. Right, And so the

786
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 2: more that we don't talk about it, the more that

787
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 2: it continues to grow, Like we're we are allowing there

788
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: to be an environment for this mold to grow and

789
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: fester and spread.

790
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 3: Right, And so the.

791
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 2: More that we just bring awareness to the problem, Number

792
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 2: one I think is step one.

793
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 3: Right, Hey, what is pornography? Like?

794
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 2: Is it actually good for your brain? Is it going

795
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 2: to improve your life or deteriorate your life even though

796
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: it might feel good in the moment, right, Like, I

797
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 2: look at it as almost like the same thing as cigarettes, right, Like,

798
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: it was just common, everybody did it, and then we

799
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: started to bring awareness to like, hey, guys, here's how

800
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: this is actually affecting you. And there's a lot of

801
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: science and psychology studies have been published of how it

802
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 2: actually impacts your brain. Spiritual consequences aside, there are psychological

803
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: impacts that happen that cause you to be motivated, that

804
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 2: cause you to go into depression, that cause you to

805
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 2: experience more anxiety because you're getting these artificially super hit,

806
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: super high hits of dopamine that we were never intentionally

807
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: and intelligently designed to get with zero effort. Right, Dopamine

808
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: is a reward for effort. Well, we're dousing our brain

809
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: with ultra high hits of dopamine with zero effort, right,

810
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: And so that directly chemically affects your motivation to do

811
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 2: other things in life, affects your ambition, right, And so

812
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: bringing awareness to how this is actually affecting you as

813
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: number one, Number two is, hey, now that I'm aware

814
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: that this is a problem, there's another problem.

815
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 3: Right.

816
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 2: By solving one problem, you create another one. It's like,

817
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: I know that it's a problem, but how do I quit?

818
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, the main information that's out there is, well,

819
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 2: you know, you install a blocker or a filter, and

820
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: like you set up all these guardrails.

821
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 3: But here's here's what happens.

822
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: You're actually taking this chain of bondage that's on your

823
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: life of this temptation and this desire, this unwanted desire

824
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: to dive into these sexual pleasures to get the dopamine hit,

825
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 2: to escape from life, and by using a blocker or

826
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: one of these other behavioral strategies, you're actually trying to

827
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: chain yourself to something else, right. And so it's like

828
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try to keep myself from watching porn by

829
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: installing this blocker, but like porn's pulling me this way, right, So, like, really,

830
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: what we've done is we've taken like this one chain

831
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 2: and then we've wrapped another chain around our neck to

832
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 2: tie us this way from not doing it. And even

833
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 2: if you don't give into the temptation, you're still chained.

834
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: You're still tormented. And that's what I experienced, right. It

835
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 2: was like either a tormented by the shame of giving

836
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: in to the temptation and then saying, Mason, what's wrong

837
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: with you? Why can't you quit? Like you know, why

838
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: do you keep doing this? Or I'm chained to the

839
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 2: torment of resisting this. Right. Either way, I'm tormented until

840
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 2: I go in and I do the deeper, deeper healing work, right,

841
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: And so, like the awareness is, guys, this is not

842
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 2: a behavioral problem. That behaviors are just fruits of the

843
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: roots inside of you. Those are the things that we

844
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: need to dive into. Those are the things that we

845
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: need to work through, and that is the problem that

846
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: needs to be solved. Stop trying to treat this as

847
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 2: a behavior problem. And again, like I would never throw

848
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 2: throw rocks at the twelve step system, right, but I

849
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,479
Speaker 2: would say that from the nineteen thirties, like there needs

850
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: to be kind of an update of what we're doing

851
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: and how we're practicing right, and it's just a little

852
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 2: bit deeper awareness of there's actually some root issues that

853
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: are causing these behaviors, and like the problem isn't your

854
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: behavior at all, it's what's going on that's creating the

855
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: unwanted desires for something that you don't want to do.

856
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 3: Wow.

857
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: Wow, that's about as good a description as I've ever heard.

858
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: And I've been thanks brother, trying to understand addiction.

859
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 3: For a long, long, long, long time. Man. That was beautiful, Mason,

860
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: Thank you. What's up? Team? I've been writing for over

861
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 3: forty years.

862
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: Finally I've decided to bring to life a character that

863
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 1: has been on my heart since my experiences of carrying

864
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: a gun for a living. If you recently watched my

865
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: episode with my best friend on his show, The Sean

866
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: Ryan Show, you heard some of my real world experiences

867
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: that shape this character and the story of The Poet Warrior.

868
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 1: Can a poet's soul survive the crucible of war? The

869
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870
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871
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Speaker 1: battle scarred navy seal through the chaos of combat. In

872
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Speaker 1: the shadow of nine to eleven, Adam grapples with the

873
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Speaker 1: raw truth of mortality. His journey is a searing odyssey

874
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Speaker 1: of heartbreak, failure, and the relentless search for identity amidst

875
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876
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Speaker 1: of the global War on terror. This is a story

877
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Speaker 1: of a young man torn between his poetic heart and

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880
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Speaker 1: at David Rutherford dot com or click the link in

881
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Speaker 1: the description below and if you pre order now, your

882
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883
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Speaker 3: Thank you very much. In godspeed.

884
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: There's a component of pornography too that I think you

885
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: know often it's it's addressed in some places but not

886
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: you know, and through the lens of perhaps through.

887
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 3: The male lens.

888
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: And that's the impact that pornography has on women, not

889
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: as the users themselves. And we know you've described a

890
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 1: couple hundred women in your program, but more importantly the

891
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: women that are being exploited in these these situations. What

892
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that? And you know what, what

893
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: can we how can we they be helped or how

894
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 1: can they be awoken to what they're chained too, whether

895
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 1: it's grown self loathing or the financial challenges or whatever

896
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: it might be. Uh, how do you address that?

897
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 3: It's it's Uh.

898
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 2: So I tried for a really long time to figure

899
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: this out, and God planted some things and some events

900
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 2: that caused to click. One of them was a conversation

901
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 2: with Joshua Broom, who I don't know if you know.

902
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 3: Who he is, but he was a performer.

903
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: Now he's a pastor, right, and he goes around and

904
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 2: he shares his experience, and uh, the conversation that him

905
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: and I had where was the two sides of the

906
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 2: trap that was very intentionally crafted by the enemy?

907
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 3: Right?

908
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: And so when I started to understand his experience and

909
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: I started to talk to a few other people that

910
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: were on the content creation side of things, there was

911
00:50:55,160 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 2: a lot of really really undeniable can consistencies from the

912
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 2: consumer side of things as well, which is what I

913
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 2: was on. Right, And so the same like I would

914
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 2: I would encourage anybody to consider that maybe the creation

915
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 2: side is also some form of addiction as well. Right,

916
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 2: And so you're trying to live into an identity to

917
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 2: get away from the way that you actually feel and

918
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 2: think about yourself and some things that may have happened

919
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: in your past. You get significance from this. You get

920
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 2: a dopamine high from this.

921
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 3: Right.

922
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 2: You get to live into a manufactured identity that is

923
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: separated from reality.

924
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 3: Right.

925
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: And so you'll, like a lot of the people that

926
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: I've talked to from the performer side have gone, like,

927
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: I wanted a way out of this. I didn't want

928
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: to continue doing this, but like something just kept drawing

929
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: me back in. I would go through a cycle of

930
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: shame after and then I'd find myself back in the

931
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: very place that I swore i'd never be.

932
00:51:58,800 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 3: What does that remind you of?

933
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 2: It's an addiction cycle, right, And just to throw this

934
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 2: out there, because this word addiction is thrown around I

935
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: think a little bit loosely, and I'm guilty of it

936
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 2: sometimes too. You may be experiencing the symptoms of an addiction,

937
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,919
Speaker 2: but you yourself are not an addict at the identity level.

938
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 2: That's not who God created you to be, right, And so, yes,

939
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: we're talking about an addiction, but it's important to remember

940
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: that if you're experiencing symptoms of that. It's not because

941
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 2: you're an addict, right, but that's the same thing that

942
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:32,839
Speaker 2: we're seeing on that side of things.

943
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 3: And so.

944
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 2: The encouragement to the female or the male that is

945
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: on the content creation side of things, they feel like

946
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: it's out of alignment of maybe their moral values are like,

947
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 2: you know, something a little bit bigger than themselves spiritually

948
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: of what's going on in their lives, and they like

949
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 2: there's just this discontent of what they're doing, and they

950
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 2: know that there must be something more. I would encourage

951
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 2: you to consider that there's some things in your past,

952
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 2: and there's there's some healing of actual issues in your

953
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 2: life that maybe, instead of trying to push down and

954
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: run away from an escape from a performance standpoint or

955
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 2: a content creation standpoint, like turn back and like let's

956
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 2: look at those things, let's work through those and that's

957
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: you'll you'll find that that is the driving force of

958
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: the behavior that you're in right now.

959
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: Oh, that's very similar. I think that's a brilliant way

960
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 3: to describe it.

961
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 1: It is.

962
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 3: It's an addiction on both sides. You know.

963
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: I think everybody wants it to be something as simplistic

964
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 1: as financial, but when you look at the data right

965
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:49,479
Speaker 1: on only fans approximately three point five million active creators worldwide,

966
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, and then it's active who are actively posting

967
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: content engaging with the platform, up from about four point

968
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: one total million registered creators at the end of twenty

969
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: twenty three, with growing into twenty twenty five. And then

970
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: here's the thing. This was the thing I found fascinating

971
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: is that, you know, total payouts to creators was five

972
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: point three two billion, but that was only the top

973
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: essentially the top one percent, which was about thirty five

974
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: to forty one thousand people roughly earning thirty three percent

975
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: of all revenue an average of forty nine thousand dollars annually.

976
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: That's about four thousand monthly. And then the top ten percent,

977
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: which was three hundred and fifty to four hundred and

978
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:42,800
Speaker 1: ten thousand, earn about seventy three percent, and that's around

979
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: eleven thousand dollars annually, which is abysmal. Right, you know,

980
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: everybody wants to talk about the big earners, but that's

981
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: zero point one percent of this entire group. Most people

982
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: are not getting paid, Most people are not able to

983
00:54:58,600 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 1: earn a living from it.

984
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 3: So I think.

985
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: That that trends towards what you're saying. What I'd love

986
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: to see is a statistic that shows people coming on

987
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,439
Speaker 1: as creators, how long they last and then they fall off,

988
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: because I think that's where you start to see the

989
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 1: idea of what you are talking about, the addiction playing out.

990
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: Because if you're going on and you're making you know,

991
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: eighty bucks a month of creating content, you're doing it

992
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 1: every day for two or three hours a day on

993
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: your channel, you know, and you're still there sick ninety

994
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty one hundred and eighty a year,

995
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: two years into it.

996
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 3: That's not about the money.

997
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's about that whatever it is inside that, that

998
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 1: desire to numb yourself or you know, feel wanted or whatever,

999
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 1: that is that.

1000
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 3: Deep rooted thing. So manufacturer significance.

1001
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, manufacturers. Oh I love that term. That's fantastic. Can

1002
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: you explain that a little bit more, please?

1003
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like if you and what's interesting is this can

1004
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 2: all so happened subconsciously, right, and so if you analyze

1005
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 2: the truth of that self talk, like your relationship with yourself,

1006
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,240
Speaker 2: if you have an identity that is lower than you'd

1007
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 2: like one of the just knee jerk, very low level

1008
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 2: thinking things that all humans do instinctively is they start

1009
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 2: to try to manufacture a facade of an identity of

1010
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 2: like who they really want to be, right, And that's

1011
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 2: that's not actually your identity. What you're doing is you're

1012
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 2: creating a lie identity, right, And it's it's not based

1013
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,919
Speaker 2: on truth, it's not based on who you are, it's

1014
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: based on the it's actually based on just trying to

1015
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: escape who you don't want to be. And so now

1016
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 2: this identity is created as like, well, I'm a content

1017
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 2: creator and these people buy my stuff and like they

1018
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 2: they are pursuing me. Right, There's there's a high that

1019
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:54,760
Speaker 2: you get from that because it's it's escaping from maybe

1020
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 2: some insecurity that you have, maybe some past of abandonment

1021
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 2: and trauma that you haven't worked through, right, And so

1022
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 2: it's medicating the wounds that you haven't healed. The problem

1023
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: is there's consequences for creating a identity, right, there's consequences

1024
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 2: for medicating those wounds with things that are not in

1025
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 2: alignment with God's intention for your life. And unfortunately, again

1026
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 2: for these like to caution some of these content creators,

1027
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 2: it's like yes, there's grace, Yes, there's mercy, there are

1028
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 2: also consequences, and sometimes when you put something on the Internet,

1029
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 2: it's on there forever. And we're hearing more and more

1030
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: stories of these content creators coming out and going like

1031
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 2: I can't get this stuff off the Internet, and it

1032
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: horrifies me that it's going to be there permanently, right,

1033
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 2: And that's then that's where we see suicides happen on

1034
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 2: that side of things too, which is a I don't

1035
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 2: know if you have any stats on that.

1036
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's a staggering number.

1037
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 2: And I've I've had some conversations with some content creators

1038
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 2: that are now out of the industry.

1039
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 3: They're outspoken about that.

1040
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 2: Joshua is one of them, and it's it's like every day,

1041
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 2: every week, like somebody that they know has taken their life.

1042
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 3: So it's sad. That's so sad, all right, Mason.

1043
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a powerful thing that you're engaged in,

1044
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: and you know, you you talk about the enemy. You know,

1045
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: how how deep of a spiritual battle is this?

1046
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 3: Do you think?

1047
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 2: I think this is the most insidious, most aggressive attack

1048
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: on God's children that we've seen in modern day, like

1049
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 2: addiction as a whole, and then if we narrow down

1050
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: and just talk about the using sex and using the

1051
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 2: pleasure from sex as and lust as an attack from

1052
00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 2: the mechanisms of pornography, from the mechanisms of massage parlors,

1053
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 2: from the mechanisms of purchasing sex. Right, the numbers are staggering.

1054
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 2: I think that it's it's the largest all out attack

1055
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 2: that we've seen in modern day. And I think the

1056
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 2: main thing that I like the God's put on my

1057
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 2: heart to bring awareness to is that that is what

1058
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 2: it is.

1059
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 3: Right.

1060
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 2: And so we look at this from a lot of

1061
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 2: different contacts, and like when we really take a step

1062
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 2: back and we really have a thirty thousand foot view

1063
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 2: of this, we see the enemy using all of the

1064
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 2: things that are appealing to your flesh to infiltrate your

1065
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 2: life and pull you away from who God created you

1066
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 2: to be and the calling that He placed in your

1067
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: life when he placed you here on earth. And so

1068
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 2: we talk about the attack on masculinity, the attack on

1069
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 2: manhood of these these men stepping up and being the

1070
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 2: spiritual leaders. Well, when you're trying, when you have a

1071
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 2: desire to step into the spiritual leader role that God's

1072
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 2: put on your heart, but then you also have this

1073
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 2: li identity and this life of lies and deception that

1074
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 2: you've created, and you start to tell yourself that you

1075
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 2: actually can't do that right. It disables you from stepping

1076
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: into the role that God created you to fill. And

1077
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 2: so to me, it's an all out spiritual attack. I

1078
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 2: think that the magnitude of this is beyond what most

1079
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 2: people see at this point. My hope is that you

1080
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 2: know you're and eyes conversation and thank you for doing this,

1081
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 2: and any other conversation that God allows me to have

1082
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 2: is like He's just put on my heart to bring

1083
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 2: awareness to this and to continue speaking truth into the

1084
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 2: lies and shining light into the darkness.

1085
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 3: Man.

1086
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 2: So I think that there's a lot of people trapped

1087
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 2: in this that just need to hear a message like this,

1088
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 2: and then they need to be able to see other

1089
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 2: people that have actually conquered this, not just from a

1090
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: standpoint of I resist my urges and I fight every day,

1091
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 2: but it's like, no, man, you can actually heal to

1092
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 2: a point where you don't feel like you're in a

1093
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 2: life and death battle with temptation every day, and like

1094
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 2: this this battle is gone so that you can fight

1095
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: the actual war of like the things that God put

1096
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 2: you on earth to do. But we gotta face we

1097
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 2: got it, Like, drive into this problem and this this battle.

1098
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 2: You got to drive into it to solve it. Stop

1099
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 2: trying to pray it away. You'll find that when you

1100
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 2: dive into it, it's actually a gift and you're going

1101
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 2: to discover who you really are when you face that darkness,

1102
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: you move into it and you become curious about why

1103
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 2: do I want to do things that I don't want

1104
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 2: to do.

1105
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 3: That's where the magic starts to happen.

1106
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 2: And that's where God really on that path, grabs a

1107
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 2: hold of you, gives you clarity in your purpose, gives

1108
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: you clarity and your mission and your assignment, and starts

1109
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 2: guiding you in a way that you never thought was possible.

1110
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: Amen Mason, Where can men around the world come and

1111
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: find you? And then where can they follow you and

1112
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,959
Speaker 1: pay attention and contribute and where can they start to heal?

1113
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of great information on our website.

1114
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 2: It's just unchain leader dot com. I would actually encourage

1115
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 2: you to just google unchained Leader you can read some

1116
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: of the reviews. I think that's really helpful. We have

1117
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: again a little over nine thousand guys that have come

1118
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 2: through the program. A handful of them have been willing

1119
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:21,920
Speaker 2: to publish a public testimony of like their story. You

1120
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 2: can find some of those on Google Reviews, and we

1121
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 2: have some videos as well. And then Instagram is probably

1122
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 2: our biggest platform right now, but it's official Underscore Mason

1123
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 2: Kin and that account has around four hundred thousand followers

1124
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 2: right now. I just say that because you've probably experienced

1125
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 2: the same thing, man, But people create, you know, fake

1126
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 2: accounts and stuff like that. So look for the one

1127
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 2: with like recent posts and at current date, there's around

1128
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand followers on that account.

1129
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: Well, Mason, God bless you and the work you're doing.

1130
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: Thank you for all the men you've helped so far.

1131
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 1: And I'm just honored to be able to give you

1132
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of more of a platform to spread

1133
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: this word and to where we can bring these uh

1134
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: young men and women back into the fold and and

1135
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: and help them discover their their true selves and and

1136
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:09,959
Speaker 1: be faithful to God.

1137
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 3: Awesome, David, it was.

1138
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 2: It was a pleasure, and uh, I just again appreciate

1139
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: you for being willing to have this conversation.

1140
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 3: Man.

1141
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 2: I think that the God will use this as a

1142
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 2: powerful tool to spread the kingdom.

1143
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 3: Amen. Thank you,