Speaker 1: If there's one shared truth in the world of soccer
Speaker 1: and sports as a whole, really is that there's nothing
Speaker 1: quite as invigorating as playing a game on your home turf.
Speaker 1: This is your field, your town, your city. Most of
Speaker 1: the people in the stadium are there for you, and
Speaker 1: all that heckling and booing that's all directed towards your rivals.
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe the closest thing to that would
Speaker 1: be performing as a rock star in front of tens
Speaker 1: of thousands of adoring fans, belting out your greatest hits.
Speaker 1: Everyone is there just because they love you. It must
Speaker 1: feel freaking amazing, And teams research has shown do seem
Speaker 1: to win more when they're playing a home game. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's the good vibes or the more forgiving calls by
Speaker 1: the rests. The cause is are still hotly debated. Still,
Speaker 1: there don't seem to be many downsides. That is, unless
Speaker 1: you're the US men's team playing soccer against Mexico, Because
Speaker 1: even if you're playing in your own country, pretty much
Speaker 1: everything I just described doesn't really apply here because that
Speaker 1: stadium where the US men's team is playing Mexico is
Speaker 1: most likely going to be a sea of green jerseys.
Speaker 1: Not red, white, and blue. The loudest national anthem will
Speaker 1: probably be in Spanish. It will look, sound and feel
Speaker 1: like you're playing an away game. This is one of
Speaker 1: the many hallmarks in an international rivalry that spans decades
Speaker 1: between two countries that share much more than a border.
Speaker 1: From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernande Chavarri. This is American Football
Speaker 1: show about soccer culture in the US and it's under
Speaker 1: dog roots. We're going to delve into the history of
Speaker 1: the rivalry between the US and Mexico, including an infamous
Speaker 1: World Cup that traumatized generations of Mexicans and that solidified
Speaker 1: the US as a worthy rival. And we're going to
Speaker 1: look at why the Mexican team and the Mexican League
Speaker 1: are so popular on this side of the border. It
Speaker 1: turns out, for Mexican Americans, this is about so much
Speaker 1: more than just soccer. It's about culture, it's about belonging,
Speaker 1: it's about identity. So for all of that, I'm going
Speaker 1: to bring my colleague Rebecca Berra, senior editor for the show.
Speaker 2: I want to start this story not in the world
Speaker 2: of sports, but in the world of culture and politics.
Speaker 2: In the nineties and the.
Speaker 1: Early two th that's what I love most.
Speaker 2: So, Fernanda, you and I have a few things in common.
Speaker 2: We are both born and raised in Mexico, and we
Speaker 2: are both millennials. I would say elder millennials, but I
Speaker 2: know that you have a problem with that word.
Speaker 1: I don't like the world elder for anything.
Speaker 2: So I'll just say that we're millennials of a certain age,
Speaker 2: which means that we grew up in a time in
Speaker 2: Mexico when the pop culture influence of the US on
Speaker 2: the country was just really strong.
Speaker 1: Totally, totally and in a different way. Because it wasn't
Speaker 1: coming through Instagram or the Internet connecting us all instantly.
Speaker 1: It felt very organic, but very crescent like. It had
Speaker 1: to travel a long way to get there, and it
Speaker 1: made its mark.
Speaker 2: A lot of it got there through TV through radio
Speaker 2: like Obviously, I would assume that you, like me, grew
Speaker 2: up watching telenoelas and eating spicy candy. But if you
Speaker 2: were a teenager like me living in the outskirts of
Speaker 2: Mexico City, you were also probably watching Beverly Hills nine
Speaker 2: O two one zero or The Fresh Prince of val Air,
Speaker 2: which I knew as.
Speaker 1: A which is the Prince of Rap.
Speaker 2: And on top of that, US culture was cool, kind
Speaker 2: of aspirational totally. But in the United States Mexican influence
Speaker 2: was lived and perceived differently. And the reason for that
Speaker 2: is because the US wasn't just dealing with Mexican culture.
Speaker 2: It was dealing with Mexican people, because millions of Mexicans,
Speaker 2: both with and without papers, were coming to the United
Speaker 2: States during those decades. If you look at a graph
Speaker 2: of the number of Mexican immigrants in the US, wholds
Speaker 2: steady in the hundreds of thousands for most of last century,
Speaker 2: and then in the eighties and nineties and two thousands,
Speaker 2: it just like shoots up and it's two million, four million,
Speaker 2: ten million.
Speaker 3: All Americans, not only in the States most heavily affected,
Speaker 3: but in every place in this country are rightly disturbed
Speaker 3: by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country.
Speaker 3: The jobs they home might otherwise be held by citizens
Speaker 3: or legal immigrants, the public service they use impose burdens
Speaker 3: on our tax players.
Speaker 2: It's a small example of the dynamic between these two countries.
Speaker 2: The US seeing Mexico and Mexicans as this country and
Speaker 2: these people that they need for trade and for labor
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, but they're also kind of this
Speaker 2: inconvenience right, and in Mexico you're under this incessant cultural
Speaker 2: and political influence of the US. But they're also this
Speaker 2: kind of popular school bully and they're like good at everything,
Speaker 2: including the sports. And yet yes, this is a soccer podcast,
Speaker 2: so we are going to talk about sports.
Speaker 1: We're getting to the sports. We're getting there.
Speaker 2: The one thing that Mexicans do not have a complicated
Speaker 2: relationship with is soccer, or they're standing in soccer when
Speaker 2: it comes to the United States. Like if you were
Speaker 2: in Mexico, you know that the United States has the
Speaker 2: good economy, they have Hollywood, they have Doctor Pepper, But
Speaker 2: we have soccer. Our local teams are better than the
Speaker 2: US local teams, and our national team is better than
Speaker 2: the US national team that we knew. But then in
Speaker 2: the mid nineties towards the early two thousands, that all changes,
Speaker 2: and that power dynamic changes as well, And that is
Speaker 2: where we get to the beginning of this rivalry. In
Speaker 2: terms of soccer.
Speaker 4: It becomes a rivalry when the other team wins. Also,
Speaker 4: not when just one team is winning.
Speaker 2: This is Edward Kawich. He is a sports reporter for
Speaker 2: the La Times, where he's covered boxing and soccer for
Speaker 2: fifteen years, and he says both teams have played each
Speaker 2: other at different points in history, like starting in the
Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, and for most of that history, Mexico was
Speaker 2: the dominant team.
Speaker 4: If you look at the stats, Mexico has more wins
Speaker 4: than the US.
Speaker 2: But that started changing.
Speaker 4: The key component here is that the US started winning
Speaker 4: and started winning in finals.
Speaker 1: Okay, so what changes what happens in the US or
Speaker 1: with the US team or with players coaches.
Speaker 2: I mean the big change we've already covered in several
Speaker 2: episodes of this podcast, which is the US actually starts
Speaker 2: taking soccer seriously at the beginning of the nineties, towards
Speaker 2: that nineteen ninety four World Cup in the US and
Speaker 2: then past that. They start getting better players, they start
Speaker 2: recruiting coaches, including coaches from Mexico, right, and they just
Speaker 2: start playing better and they start being good kind of
Speaker 2: early on. Again, they're not winning decisively, but in the
Speaker 2: very first CONCAKV Gold Cup in nineteen ninety one, the
Speaker 2: US knocks out Mexico four to zero, unbelievable at the
Speaker 2: Memorial Coliseum in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
Speaker 2: And the US goes on to win that tournament Hollywood style,
Speaker 2: ending the very first Gold Cup.
Speaker 5: The United States in penalties secure their first major trophy.
Speaker 2: And you know what that kind of starts getting to
Speaker 2: the Mexicans.
Speaker 4: They have that mentality of yeah, you're better than us
Speaker 4: in many things, but not in soccer. So for Mexicans,
Speaker 4: they feel more when they lose to the US. Their
Speaker 4: pride gets damaged also, but even more than US soccer fans.
Speaker 1: Makes sense, this was the one thing that Mexico was better.
Speaker 2: At exactly, And granted, Edward says that Mexico is still
Speaker 2: the better team early on.
Speaker 4: But that change in the nineteen nineties, late nineteen nineties especially,
Speaker 4: and I think the climax of that rivalry came in
Speaker 4: two thousand and two when the US face Mexico in
Speaker 4: the knockout phase in the World Cup.
Speaker 1: Oh that game.
Speaker 2: That's how it's known officially as that game.
Speaker 1: After the break, those I said, oh, you knew that
Speaker 1: was coming. We're going to revisit a collective Mexican trauma
Speaker 1: and talk about that game. It's American football and Fernanda Charai.
Speaker 1: Before or the break, our senior editor Rebecca Ebra was
Speaker 1: telling me about how the rivalry between Mexico and the
Speaker 1: United States didn't become real until the US started winning
Speaker 1: in the nineties, and the climax of it all came
Speaker 1: in two thousand and two during the World Cup.
Speaker 2: For Nanda, What do you know about the game between
Speaker 2: the US and Mexico in the two thousand and two
Speaker 2: Korea Japan World Cup.
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, I'm not going to give you a stats.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you the feeling. And the feeling
Speaker 1: was a holy shit.
Speaker 2: So what you need to know is that this game
Speaker 2: happened in the knockout phase, which is also known as
Speaker 2: around to sixteen I call it. Oh that was a final, yeah,
Speaker 2: and if you win this game, you make it to
Speaker 2: the quarterfinals. And again, the US was doing good, but
Speaker 2: Mexico was still mostly winning. So the US team is
Speaker 2: solidly the underdog going into this game. They had big players,
Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong. They had Landon Donovan, who is
Speaker 2: probably one of the best players the US has ever known,
Speaker 2: but they were still a rookie team from a rookie
Speaker 2: soccer country. Meanwhile, you have Mexico and they were the favorite,
Speaker 2: and they had some amazing players right in their prime.
Speaker 2: They had quote Demo Blanco, they had Luis Hernandez, they
Speaker 2: had Rafa Marquez, and all these players were pretty cocky
Speaker 2: going into this. So the website MLS Soccer did an
Speaker 2: oral history of the game and they interviewed a bunch
Speaker 2: of the players at the time. For example, Mexico goalkeeper
Speaker 2: Osualdo Sanchez said, quote, we had all the intentions to win,
Speaker 2: and we expected to win. MLST also interviewed this midfielder
Speaker 2: called Pablo Mastroeni from the US and he said, quote,
Speaker 2: once we got to the location, we got a call
Speaker 2: from President Bush and he told us that he had
Speaker 2: a bet with Mexican President visent the folks on the game.
Speaker 2: It just kind of put things in perspective. Whatever happened
Speaker 2: prior to that point was irrelevant.
Speaker 6: Ooh, that ship, this reserve their sporting rivalry on the
Speaker 6: global stage.
Speaker 2: So you guys to that game. It is in Junju,
Speaker 2: June seventeen, two thousand.
Speaker 6: And two, eight quarter final place against Germany at this
Speaker 6: fee for World Cup. Is the prize for Mexico or
Speaker 6: the United States in Junju.
Speaker 2: And to set a little bit more of a scene,
Speaker 2: there was a US military base in South Korea, so
Speaker 2: there were actually a lot of US fans in the stadium,
Speaker 2: and that kind of sets the tone for things. This
Speaker 2: is also I mean and aside, but it's less than
Speaker 2: a year from the September eleventh attack, so like there's
Speaker 2: the sense of American pride and that is felt immediately
Speaker 2: because only eight minutes in, the US scores a goal and.
Speaker 6: The finish it's for Bride McBride the fire of the
Speaker 6: United States into an early Lander.
Speaker 2: And then the US scores another goal.
Speaker 6: London don't have center middle to score the second goal
Speaker 6: for the USA and double that lead with twin even
Speaker 6: it to the second.
Speaker 2: Half, play huge golf, and what basically happens is that
Speaker 2: Mexico loses her mind.
Speaker 6: Tensions rising here was beginning to boil.
Speaker 2: You have yellow cards flying everywhere. According to Landon Donovan,
Speaker 2: Luisa Nandez goes to him at one point and he
Speaker 2: tells him in Spanish vo contre to, I'm gonna find
Speaker 2: your mom and I'm gonna kill her now. Luis Hernandez
Speaker 2: has denied that, but it kind of gives you an
Speaker 2: idea of the stakes in the game. At one point,
Speaker 2: Rafa Marquez headbuts will be Jones super hard and Rafa
Speaker 2: gets expelled, Marcus.
Speaker 6: Leading with his head and losing his head and a
Speaker 6: painful imminence. Exit for Mexico is soured further.
Speaker 2: They were just losing their minds and the end result
Speaker 2: is that Mexico is eliminated from the World Cup by
Speaker 2: the US.
Speaker 6: It's the United States through to the quarter finals to
Speaker 6: face the free time champions Germany.
Speaker 2: And this is still the only game that the US
Speaker 2: has won in the knock of the World Cup ever ever,
Speaker 2: and it is the only time that the US and
Speaker 2: Mexico have faced each other in a World Cup. Just
Speaker 2: to kind of give you an example of the told
Speaker 2: this had on the Mexican psyche Fernanda. In doing research
Speaker 2: for this episode, I did what all professional journalists do.
Speaker 2: I asked my dad about, of course the game. Of
Speaker 2: course I message him on WhatsApp. He's in Mexico, and
Speaker 2: what he told me is that he remembers that game clearly,
Speaker 2: even twenty four years later.
Speaker 7: When it happened, I would try to tell myself, well,
Speaker 7: you know, it's just a game. It doesn't matter what
Speaker 7: you know. The next few days, the next few nights,
Speaker 7: I mean I would be waking over like a two
Speaker 7: or three in the morning thinking about the game, and
Speaker 7: it just bothered me for like a week, and then
Speaker 7: for the next couple of months it would just bother
Speaker 7: me to think about that stupid game.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love hearing this because this is
Speaker 1: this is a regular person. Because is your dad like
Speaker 1: a sports commented? Does he make money out of soccer?
Speaker 1: Like he's just a regular guy?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: Okay, But to be feeling this, it speaks to how
Speaker 1: it felt for the people.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and that dosa became a meme. It was everywhere
Speaker 2: and the US fans were chanted at games.
Speaker 1: Even non Spanish speakers can be like dosa sero and
Speaker 1: it stings.
Speaker 2: It also just really solidified this as a true rivalry,
Speaker 2: and it also meant that Mexico could no longer claim
Speaker 2: authority over soccer. It wasn't just our sport anymore, which
Speaker 2: was set But Fernanda, I'm gonna make you feel a little.
Speaker 1: Bit better, please do.
Speaker 2: There was one place where Mexico remained victorious and one
Speaker 2: place where Mexico continues to dominate. Do you have an
Speaker 2: idea where that may be?
Speaker 1: It's got to be the that pride that people have.
Speaker 1: The love I don't is it the fans.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's the fan base. And that fan base exists
Speaker 2: not only with people like my dad back in Mexico,
Speaker 2: it is also dominant in the United States. I'm going
Speaker 2: to play you a clip from the three part documentary
Speaker 2: Good Arrivals. It's on Prime. This is soccer player Alexi Lawless.
Speaker 2: He played for the US in the nineties and early
Speaker 2: two thousands.
Speaker 3: For me and my.
Speaker 5: Generation playing against Mexico, it didn't matter whether we were
Speaker 5: in Mexico City or Guadalajara, or in Los Angeles or Foxboro, Massachusetts.
Speaker 5: It was an away game and we came to grips
Speaker 5: with that very early. You recognize that when you are
Speaker 5: playing against Mexico, at the very least it's going to
Speaker 5: be fifty to fifty, but more often than not, it
Speaker 5: is going to be an away game.
Speaker 2: And you know who is feeling those stands in Los
Speaker 2: Angeles and in Texas and in Illinois. It's those Mexican
Speaker 2: immigrants that are moving to the United States in the millions,
Speaker 2: the ones Bill Clinton was so stressed about and everyone
Speaker 2: has been so stressed about, and they are proclaiming and
Speaker 2: celebrating their Mexican pride, and on top of that their
Speaker 2: US born children are also rooting for the Mexican team.
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring back Edward ka, which he is
Speaker 2: the sports reporter for the La Times, and.
Speaker 4: Why do they root for Mexico Like an American will
Speaker 4: ask if you were born here. It doesn't have to
Speaker 4: do with the Mexican national team being good. It doesn't
Speaker 4: have to be at all. That's what people don't get it.
Speaker 4: It has to do with identity.
Speaker 2: It's about the culture.
Speaker 4: When you attenn a soccer game is a festival. It's
Speaker 4: not just a game. You go there because you tailgate.
Speaker 4: Were your buddies where you're at the Mexico game.
Speaker 6: We're just showing you how.
Speaker 3: The same.
Speaker 6: Let's go take a look.
Speaker 4: You listen to the Santa Fernandez because it reminds you
Speaker 4: of your dad, your grandpa, your music, your food, your karasaya,
Speaker 4: your cook before the game, and.
Speaker 2: Edward says, this isn't just for the Mexican national team.
Speaker 2: The same goes for the local teams in the Mexican
Speaker 2: league La Liga Emegis.
Speaker 4: I've seen games here when Chivas is playing and they're
Speaker 4: playing with their backup team and the Rose Bowl Stadium
Speaker 4: gets filled with ninety thousand people, and that's a very
Speaker 4: clear picture why Mexican fans go to stadiums, because they
Speaker 4: go for their identity.
Speaker 1: After the break. What it means as a fan when
Speaker 1: you're not just picking a team, but you're picking an
Speaker 1: identity and call a Mexican American superstar safe soccer, We'll
Speaker 1: be right back. It's American football and Fernande Chavarri back
Speaker 1: with Rebecca talking about how soccer keeps many Mexican Americans
Speaker 1: in touch with their roots.
Speaker 2: I spoke to a few people who are Mexican American.
Speaker 2: One of them is Cesa Ernandez. Cessad was born and
Speaker 2: raised in Los Angeles, but his parents are from Mexico,
Speaker 2: and he says soccer has been key in his life
Speaker 2: to keeping that connection to the home of his ancestors.
Speaker 8: And it's something that I'm a little self conscious about sometimes.
Speaker 8: But if you're to strip away soccer from me, I
Speaker 8: think my personal would be quite frankly, I guess it
Speaker 8: would be very Americanized in comparison to my family and
Speaker 8: my theos Anthias, my mom and my grandparents. But like,
Speaker 8: by bringing that soccer element into me, that's kind of
Speaker 8: what makes me feel. I don't know, incredibly proud of
Speaker 8: my Mexican heritage.
Speaker 1: It goes back to what we were talking about in
Speaker 1: the beginning of our conversation, because outside of soccer, the
Speaker 1: radio station he listens to, his Spotify playlist, his watch
Speaker 1: list on Netflix is probably very sort of American culture,
Speaker 1: as he's saying. So it's the sport that keeps that
Speaker 1: connection and that sort of Mexican ness alive.
Speaker 2: For him exactly, and Sasad has made that sport a
Speaker 2: really huge part.
Speaker 7: Of his life.
Speaker 8: I'm a soccer writer for ESPN. I cover Mexican soccer,
Speaker 8: American soccer, and.
Speaker 2: It's a constant presence in his life.
Speaker 8: It's never not been there in the background to this day.
Speaker 8: I mean, I'm not paying attention to it. There's a
Speaker 8: soccer game in the background, like down.
Speaker 4: The wall right now.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I'm not watching it. I promise you. I
Speaker 8: promise you. I'm not watching it. I promise you, I'm
Speaker 8: not watching it.
Speaker 6: I love this.
Speaker 2: Isn't it your dream as a journalist to be interviewing
Speaker 2: someone and them having a soccer game in the background.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure It's not distracting at all.
Speaker 2: But a perfect example of Cisad's cultural connection to soccer
Speaker 2: is the very first professional soccer game he ever attended
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six in Los Angeles.
Speaker 8: It was the first year for the La Galaxy, the
Speaker 8: first year for MLS Back in nineteen ninety six, the.
Speaker 9: MLS Galaxy prosus the New York metron Stars, and the
Speaker 9: reason why my dad and tens of thousands of us
Speaker 9: were there were to see Mexican goalkeeping legend hord Ca
Speaker 9: Campos Campos.
Speaker 2: This is the first ever game for the La Galaxy,
Speaker 2: which is an American team, and Sasad is there to
Speaker 2: see a Mexican player. Do we need to explain who
Speaker 2: Horte compos is now right?
Speaker 1: I would love to say no, but maybe we should.
Speaker 1: And my explainer of Horte Campos is, let me try
Speaker 1: and do it in a few words. Goalie Mexico nineties tiny,
Speaker 1: incredibly talented neon outfits.
Speaker 2: The La Galaxy knew that the fandom, many of them
Speaker 2: Mexican and Mexican Americans, would show up, and they continue
Speaker 2: to show up, not just for the Mexican national team,
Speaker 2: but as I mentioned before, they show up for teams
Speaker 2: that play in the Mexican soccer league, which is called
Speaker 2: La Liga Emeki's, and a lot of those fans born
Speaker 2: in the US follow those local teams for the same
Speaker 2: reason that they might follow the national team, which is tradition.
Speaker 8: And Major League Soccer doesn't really have that. I think
Speaker 8: there is a recognition from MLS teams and owners that
Speaker 8: they have yet to really win over a number of
Speaker 8: Liga Mechi's fans, and I think that when we're talking
Speaker 8: about connections that Latinos have and Mexican Americans have to
Speaker 8: those teams back home, that's just something that MLS doesn't
Speaker 8: have just yet and doesn't have that kind of generational support.
Speaker 2: Even though LaLiga Mecke's hasn't done much to cater to
Speaker 2: those Mexican American fans other than just exist.
Speaker 8: They don't have to.
Speaker 2: They don't have to, but a lot of those Mexican
Speaker 2: American fans speak English as their first language, and for
Speaker 2: the past couple of decades, those fans have taken it
Speaker 2: upon themselves to cover the league in English, whether through podcasts.
Speaker 1: Borrow hard things than Chivas playing through a third of
Speaker 1: the Liga mex season, or social media.
Speaker 4: LFC is going to be playing today against Micrusasul and yes,
Speaker 4: my Makina needs to do a big rebonda because they're
Speaker 4: down three.
Speaker 2: Zero or through groups on discord, I spoke to one
Speaker 2: fan who used to translate all the tweets from Nashchiva's
Speaker 2: that's fascinating and for example, the work that saysaut does,
Speaker 2: he does it all in English for.
Speaker 8: ESPN, because when we talk about Legua mech Use, this
Speaker 8: is not only the most popular soccer league in Mexico,
Speaker 8: line surprisingly, but also in the United States. So there's
Speaker 8: a huge, huge appetite for that and that kind of
Speaker 8: permeates into obviously the Mexican national team. I would make
Speaker 8: the argument that the most popular national team in the
Speaker 8: United States is the Mexican national team.
Speaker 1: The most popular national team in the United States is
Speaker 1: the Mexican national team.
Speaker 2: And that's born out by the numbers. Like I was
Speaker 2: looking at attendance numbers, average attendance numbers going back to
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, and the average match attendance for a Mexico
Speaker 2: game was consistently around like forty five to fifty five
Speaker 2: thousand a game, and the average attendance for the US
Speaker 2: was around in twenty twenty five twenty eight thousand game,
Speaker 2: and that has been the case since I saw the
Speaker 2: numbers in twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: That's a huge difference.
Speaker 2: Now, for the sake of fact checking for Nan that
Speaker 2: LaLiga MkIS nowadays in the United States is trailing behind
Speaker 2: the Premier League.
Speaker 1: Okay, so people in the US are a little more
Speaker 1: interested in watching European teams than they are Mexican local teams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at least when you're talking like in TV or streaming.
Speaker 2: But LaLiga IMECKE still beats Major League Soccer MLS. And
Speaker 2: here is where we arrive to the final evolution of
Speaker 2: this rivalry. This is gonna be our final act. So
Speaker 2: the soccer leagues in Mexico and the US aren't just
Speaker 2: competing for fans and viewership anymore. They're also battling for players.
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring back Edward Kavic of the La Times.
Speaker 4: I think in the future we're gonna see more and
Speaker 4: more Mexican Americans playing for the US and more Mexican
Speaker 4: Americans playing for Mexico. And that's the next level.
Speaker 2: So Mexico and the local teams in Mexico have like
Speaker 2: been famously strict about letting in foreign national players, but
Speaker 2: Mexican Americans in the US get dual nationality. So that
Speaker 2: means that Mexican teams are now competing for those Mexican
Speaker 2: Americans in the United States. And a lot of those
Speaker 2: Mexican Americans are good, and.
Speaker 1: The US is saying no, no, no, you were born here, Miko.
Speaker 1: Well maybe the US doesn't say, Miko, sunny boy sonny boy, dude, buddy,
Speaker 1: you were born here, buddy, so you got to play
Speaker 1: for US? Is that's essentially what he's saying, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And when you watch interviews on the news or in
Speaker 2: social media with these Mexican American players that are being
Speaker 2: recruited by US teams or Mexican teams, you hear them
Speaker 2: wrestling with what country to pick.
Speaker 5: You have a chance to play for both national teams.
Speaker 4: Walk me through what you're feeling in that moment.
Speaker 7: It was hard.
Speaker 9: It was very hard both choices in my hand, Mexico
Speaker 9: or the US.
Speaker 8: And it was hard for me because I don't want
Speaker 8: to let down my mom or my dad.
Speaker 2: They're not just picking a team, they're picking an identity
Speaker 2: and whatever choice they make. Edward is certain about this
Speaker 2: one thing.
Speaker 4: I think there's gonna be a London Donovan type of
Speaker 4: player who's gonna change the game, and it's gonna be
Speaker 4: a Mexican American and whoever ends up losing that player,
Speaker 4: if it's the US or Mexico, they're gonna be regreading
Speaker 4: that for a long time.
Speaker 1: Does he know something we don't know? Has he been
Speaker 1: in the stands scouting the like next Mexican American superstar.
Speaker 2: He convinced me, though, Son, We're gonna have to check
Speaker 2: back in a few years down the line and just
Speaker 2: see if this prediction turns out to be true.
Speaker 1: I'll did ten bucks.
Speaker 2: It does deal.
Speaker 1: American Football is produced by Futbura Studios in collaboration with
Speaker 1: Iheart's Mike Kultura podcast network. I'm Your host Fernande Chavarri.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Reba Barra and Levi Sharp.
Speaker 1: It was edited by Marlon Bishop, sac checking by Roxanna Guire,
Speaker 1: mixing by Brandon Krugel at Multitude Productions. Victoria Strada is
Speaker 1: our production manager. Legal review by Jonathan Fisher at Fisher
Speaker 1: Legal Arts. Our executive producers are Marlon Bishop and Maria
Speaker 1: Garcia at Futuro Studios. Executive producers at iHeart are Leo
Speaker 1: Gomez and Arlene Santana Futuro Media was founded by Marie
Speaker 1: no Josa. You can listen to more episodes on the
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