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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of

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Speaker 1: where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.

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Speaker 2: Live from New York. I'm Caroline Hyde.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Mike Sheppard and Washington. This is Bloomberg Technology.

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Speaker 4: Coming up metas all in on AI with plans to

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Speaker 4: boost capital expenditure to up to sixty five billion dollars

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty five, plus a choppy start to chip

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Speaker 4: earnings with global semi stocks falling after Texas Instruments is

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Speaker 4: the latest to underwhelm and what'll be joined by Frank

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Speaker 4: McCourt on the future of TikTok in the US and

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Speaker 4: his bid for the social media platform. At first, we

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Speaker 4: check in on these markets, Mike, which are still treading

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Speaker 4: near record highs.

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Speaker 2: The NASAC is up almost two percent with the course

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Speaker 2: of the week.

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Speaker 4: But we draw down a little bit as we of

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Speaker 4: course see the weight of some chip stocks causing a

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Speaker 4: little anxiety. Look at his industrial automotive end markets that

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Speaker 4: still prove wheak. Texas Instruments again falling on from s

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Speaker 4: k Heinix, which had a little bit of an underwhelming

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Speaker 4: earnings report as well. They're seeing the smartphone weakness, but

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Speaker 4: AI still really managing to drive forward. Broadcom is on

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Speaker 4: the higher side when it comes to the socks. Why's

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Speaker 4: broad come up because of our nex stock. Let's have

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Speaker 4: a look at what's happening with Meta today, because they

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Speaker 4: see from Mark Zuckerberg almost front running his own earnings

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Speaker 4: report next week to say that they are committed to

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Speaker 4: spending on AI, data centers, people, infrastructure, and indeed we're

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Speaker 4: starting to see it up nineteen percent.

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Speaker 2: We're at a record high for Meta.

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Speaker 4: Let's get out to Kurt Wagner for more, because this

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Speaker 4: is all about upping its capital expenditure to whopping sixty

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Speaker 4: five billion.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's about fifty percent more than what we

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Speaker 5: saw in twenty twenty four, which was a big amount

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Speaker 5: thirty eight to forty billion, and a lot of people

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Speaker 5: a year ago, Caroline, were sort of worried is Meta

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Speaker 5: overspending here? Right? And here they are jumping up even higher.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think you hit it right there, which

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Speaker 5: is that this is an AI play, right, This is

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Speaker 5: data centers, these are GPUs, this is you know, trying

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Speaker 5: to keep pace with Open AI and Microsoft and Google

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Speaker 5: and all these other companies that are investing so heavily.

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Speaker 5: It's been a huge focus for Mark Zuckerberg over the

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Speaker 5: last couple of years and clearly will continue to be

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Speaker 5: in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: Kurt. We've seen some investors express concern about whether there

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Speaker 3: is an overspend in AI, but today they seem to

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Speaker 3: be giving a little bit of grace to Meta. Why

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Speaker 3: is that in metas case?

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Speaker 5: Well, I think this is the most exciting technology that

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Speaker 5: Meta could be investing in.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 5: If you're a meta investor and you say, hey, what

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Speaker 5: would you rather do have Mark Zuckerberg put twenty billion

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Speaker 5: dollars into AI or twenty billion dollars into you know,

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Speaker 5: the metaverse?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 5: And obviously those things are related. A lot of the

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Speaker 5: A technology will ultimately power the metaverse. But my point

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Speaker 5: simply being is that I think this is the avenue

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Speaker 5: where investors are okay with overspending.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 5: Even Mark Zuckerberg told our own Emily Chang last summer, Hey,

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Speaker 5: a lot of us are going to overspend, but that

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Speaker 5: is a better outcome than waking up ten years from

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Speaker 5: now and realizing you missed the boat on this whole thing.

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner, Thank you. And it was a big

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Speaker 3: week for chip stocks as President Trump announced Project Stargate

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Speaker 3: to help boost AI infrastructure, but weakness in traditional memory

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Speaker 3: markets is limiting that euphoria. For more, we're joined by

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Speaker 3: Peter Elstrom of Bloomberg. Thank you, Peter. Peter, we are

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Speaker 3: seeing that this AI wave is not lifting all boats.

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Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit about what happened with

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Speaker 3: sk Heinex and Texast Instruments for example, and then more broadly.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, Ska Honicks is a Korean company that doesn't get

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Speaker 8: that much attention, doesn't get the kind of attention that

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Speaker 8: Nvidia does, but it's very related to them. In Vidia

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Speaker 8: makes the AI accelerators and Ska Honicks makes the memory

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Speaker 8: that are paired with those accelerators to be able to

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Speaker 8: run these AI models. So it's a pretty good bill

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Speaker 8: weather of what's going on in the AI market now.

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Speaker 8: It's earnings results, by almost any measure, were quite strong.

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Speaker 8: Revenue was of seventy five percent, their operating profit was

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Speaker 8: up twenty fold, but it wasn't enough for investors. The

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Speaker 8: shares actually declined about three percent yesterday. There's been some

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Speaker 8: softness in that market, and that sort of sent some

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Speaker 8: concerns throughout the market, including here into Europe and into

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Speaker 8: the US yesterday. It just goes to show how high

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Speaker 8: the expectations are in this market. You would think that

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Speaker 8: sixty five billion dollars in spending on AI will get

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Speaker 8: you something of a rally in stocks, but that's not

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Speaker 8: what we're seeing so far.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, any Broadcom really managing to garnering any love from

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Speaker 4: that because it's a supplier to Meta so too is

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Speaker 4: in video that's on the downside, and maybe that's more

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Speaker 4: in line with what we're seeing with Texas instruments. It

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Speaker 4: underwhelms on its numbers, but it's the end markets of autos,

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Speaker 4: of industrials of actually maybe where we'll see some tariffs

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Speaker 4: being hit from China too.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, there are different kinds of concerns around Texas instruments.

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Speaker 8: They play a bit more into the traditional markets, as

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Speaker 8: you say, into the auto market in particular. We could

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Speaker 8: have teriffs impact some of those in markets. It's not

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Speaker 8: clear exactly how that's going to spend. And also Trump

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Speaker 8: has been talking about rolling back some of the subsidies

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Speaker 8: for evs, which take a lot of these ships too.

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Speaker 8: So there's some softness and some more traditional size parts

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Speaker 8: of the chip market here that may be impacting Texas

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Speaker 8: instruments and overall just raising concerns about whether some of

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Speaker 8: these valuations have gotten ahead of themselves from AI into

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Speaker 8: some of these other areas.

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Speaker 4: Peter Elstrom manering the tech with the politics.

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Speaker 2: We thank you so much on all things chip. President Trump.

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Speaker 4: They're speaking as he boards Air Force one in Nashville,

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Speaker 4: North Carolina, visiting. Of course family is affected by Hurricane Helen.

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Speaker 4: But he spoke much more about Federal Emergency Management Agency,

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Speaker 4: wanting them to see less involvement in hurricane recovery and

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Speaker 4: more state involvement when it comes to these sorts of

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Speaker 4: natural disasters.

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Speaker 2: Also speaking about OPEC, the view.

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Speaker 4: On cutting oil prices, and indeed he was speaking that

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Speaker 4: a little bit about some of the immigration policies, and

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Speaker 4: indeed once again criticizing some of the water policies in California.

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Speaker 4: He pans to visit California next and regarding those LA wildfires.

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Speaker 4: But Mike, we have much more on President Trump's policies.

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Speaker 3: We do, and he has these big ambitions for the

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Speaker 3: US to become an AI superpower. As we heard him

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Speaker 3: talk about at Davos yesterday. This is touching off a

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Speaker 3: global tech race, and we're joined by Michelle guid To,

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Speaker 3: the CEO of the Kroc Institute for Tech Diplomacy at Purdue,

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Speaker 3: to talk us through it. Michelle, we have seen this

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Speaker 3: week the Stargate venture announced and then Meta today talking

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Speaker 3: about a big investment in AI and in data centers.

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Speaker 3: Those are all private sector initiatives. Are they going to

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Speaker 3: be enough to keep up with what rivals like China

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Speaker 3: in particular, are doing with state driven investment?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 9: Thanks, thanks for that. Mike. Well, I think what we're

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Speaker 9: seeing in the first five days of the second Trump

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Speaker 9: administration is America First also means innovation first, and as

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Speaker 9: you pointed out, there is a lot of momentum with

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Speaker 9: private sector companies now stepping up their game to invest

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Speaker 9: in the future of the United States becoming what the

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Speaker 9: President has said will be the world capital of artificial intelligence,

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Speaker 9: the world capital of cryptocurrency. And that's really important because

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Speaker 9: China wants to hold that title. And China is also

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Speaker 9: pouring a lot of its own government money, billions and

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Speaker 9: billions of dollars into building out data centers, building out infrastructure.

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Speaker 9: They're building eight new massive data hubs. They're approving ten

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Speaker 9: nuclear power plants every year. They have a national initiative

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Speaker 9: called Eastern Data Western Compute. So to see private sector

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Speaker 9: companies United States all of a sudden really cranking up

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Speaker 9: their investment in this strategic capability for the United States

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Speaker 9: as good news.

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Speaker 3: Michelle, You've talked in the past about the importance of

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Speaker 3: democratic allies working together in this area of tech. Yesterday,

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Speaker 3: also at Davo's, we heard Donald Trump talking about tariffs

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Speaker 3: and differences over regulation with the European Union. How does

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Speaker 3: that complicate joint efforts to say counter China.

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Speaker 9: Well, you know, with trusted allies and partners, you can

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Speaker 9: also be really honest and they are honest conversations going

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Speaker 9: on about what it takes to work together and to

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Speaker 9: be effective economically, to be effective technologically in order to

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Speaker 9: compete against China. And the innovation first approach is really

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Speaker 9: interesting because the opposite of that, the alternative to that,

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Speaker 9: is a regulatory first approach. We've seen what happens with that.

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Speaker 7: Just look at Europe.

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Speaker 9: The report that Mario Dragi release just a few months

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Speaker 9: ago outlined how painful it's become for Europe. They have

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Speaker 9: to pay eight hundred billion dollars a year just to

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Speaker 9: catch up in terms of tech competitives. In fifty years,

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Speaker 9: they haven't created a single company that's got greater than

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Speaker 9: one hundred billion dollar market cap. All of their unicorns,

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Speaker 9: a third of their unicorns are fleeing the EU. So

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Speaker 9: we have to change that because the Europeans, our friends

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Speaker 9: in the Indo Pacific, Latin America, all across the world

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Speaker 9: are really important partner. So we need to be on

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Speaker 9: the same page in terms of how we power innovation

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Speaker 9: at the same time we are powering oternational security.

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Speaker 4: Michelle, it's interesting that the previous administration, in the last

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Speaker 4: days of the Biden administration, did put some pretty tough

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Speaker 4: focus on Nvidia, for example. Then it's a bitity to export,

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Speaker 4: particularly to China. How much might that hinders some of

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Speaker 4: the very successful companies here in the United States with

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Speaker 4: the ongoing geopolitical tension.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I think we'll see some developments with the new

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Speaker 9: Trump administration on where they're going with export controls. Well,

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Speaker 9: remember that started under the first administration was carried forward

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Speaker 9: by the Biden administration.

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Speaker 7: We'll see where that goes.

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Speaker 9: But I think you can tell that this administration is

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Speaker 9: very focused on innovation and national security at the same time.

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Speaker 9: So we've got a bolster us and allied innovation and

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Speaker 9: leadership so that we win and our values are represented

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Speaker 9: in technology. At the same time, we can also protect

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Speaker 9: national security. And as President Trump said in his inaugural address,

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Speaker 9: America can do the impossible. It's what we do. And

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Speaker 9: to balance those two things with our allies. I think

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Speaker 9: we're headed on a trajectory toward that.

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Speaker 2: But it takes time.

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Speaker 4: These one hundred billion dollars of investment up to five

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Speaker 4: hundred billion dollars can't go into the ground immediately to

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Speaker 4: start getting data centers up and running. It takes years,

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Speaker 4: and yet we might see an impact on goods coming

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Speaker 4: from China in months.

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Speaker 2: Is that a key issue? Is that a national security risk?

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Speaker 9: Well, I think this administration has signaled that this all

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Speaker 9: needs to happen as fast as possible. They've used the

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Speaker 9: word unleash many times, unleashing American energy, unleashing American innovation,

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Speaker 9: declaring an energy emergency in order to really catalyze and

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Speaker 9: accelerate what we're doing there, We're going to need so

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Speaker 9: much more energy to power these data centers that power ai.

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Speaker 9: Open Ai and Goldman Sacks I think had estimate it.

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Speaker 9: We're going to need fifty gegawatts of new incremental energy.

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Speaker 10: In order to do that.

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Speaker 9: We're dusting off all nuclear power plants, so you're right,

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Speaker 9: that has to happen really fast. And the great part

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Speaker 9: is that we've got private sector companies now on board

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Speaker 9: that are going to turbo charge our effort.

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Speaker 4: Chere, Geida, It's always great to have you on the

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Speaker 4: crowd Institute for Tech Topoonmacy at Perdu, we thank you.

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Speaker 2: Coming up.

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Speaker 4: Look, open ai is joining a growing number of tech

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Speaker 4: companies bending on so called AI agents. We're going to

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Speaker 4: talk about what Operator is capable of and some of

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Speaker 4: the concerns. This is blue Meg technology. Let's turn to

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Speaker 4: the latest product out of open Ai, the startup launching

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Speaker 4: its AI agent.

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Speaker 2: Of course, this is all regarding Operator.

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Speaker 4: Apparently it can put you flights, plan your grocery orders,

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Speaker 4: even complete purchases for users. We're joined now by bloomgg's

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Speaker 4: Rachel Metz, who I'm told is wearing some lipstick that

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Speaker 4: Operator already.

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Speaker 2: Bought for you.

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Speaker 11: This is correct. I used Operator yesterday to do a

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Speaker 11: whole bunch of different things, just trying it out really

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Speaker 11: quickly to sort of put it through its paces. One

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Speaker 11: of the things I did well, actually it relates to you.

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Speaker 11: You were wearing a nice neutral shade of lipstick a

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Speaker 11: few days ago that I happened a spot and I

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Speaker 11: asked Operator to pick out a neutral lipstick shade for

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Speaker 11: me from Sephora and purchase it. And it did, And

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Speaker 11: then I went to Sephora and picked it up and

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Speaker 11: I'm wearing it now.

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Speaker 3: Rachel. Investors have been looking for this breakthrough functionality with AI.

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Speaker 3: Are we getting any closer with this?

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Speaker 11: I think it's still a little bit tricky to tell,

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Speaker 11: but it is very clear that they're putting a lot

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Speaker 11: of time and resources into trying to figure out new

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Speaker 11: ways that they can integrate these tools into people's lives.

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Speaker 11: Operator is meant to be pretty general purpose, as you

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Speaker 11: might have noticed from the way they were positioning it.

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Speaker 11: You mentioned caroline, grocery orders. I think you might have

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Speaker 11: mentioned planning flights. These are all like different things that

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Speaker 11: the average person can totally envision doing themselves that they

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Speaker 11: might not like doing posted to some of the other

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Speaker 11: agent type software that's already out there that's more inward

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Speaker 11: things like coding. I feel like we're definitely seeing this

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Speaker 11: the idea of this at least being spread as more

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Speaker 11: of a mass market thing, even though operator is only

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Speaker 11: available to a small number of Opening Eyes users who

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Speaker 11: want to pay two hundred dollars a month for it

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Speaker 11: as part of a larger service.

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Speaker 4: Almost beta testing as it does tend to do. Rachel Metz,

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Speaker 4: great to have you, and I like the way that

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Speaker 4: you encompass that there is competition how there as well.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to Blue Meg Technology and Caroin Hide in New.

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Speaker 3: York and I'm Mike Sheppard and Washington.

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Speaker 4: Quick check on these markets, Mike, because we are at

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Speaker 4: near record highs and that's that one hundred is up

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Speaker 4: almost two percent on the week we just pulled back.

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Speaker 4: It's chip stocks that are in focus as we underwhelm

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Speaker 4: on Texas instruments following skhinex's numbers.

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Speaker 2: But Bitcoin up two point eight percent.

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Speaker 4: Remember a flurry of executive orders that I know you've

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Speaker 4: been watching, and came among them yesterday was the AI

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Speaker 4: and the crypto order. Maybe we get some sort of

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Speaker 4: overall bitcoin reserve, but it's not.

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Speaker 2: A bitcoin reserve, it's a digital asset.

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Speaker 4: Reserve and Bitcoin took a bit of a hit yesterday,

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Speaker 4: but we're back at one hundred and six thousand.

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Speaker 2: Move on, individual names you need to keep an eye on.

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Speaker 4: We've had started the earning season and Verizon is among them.

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Speaker 4: We're currently seeing it up one one point two percent,

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Speaker 4: as they managed to beat in terms of almost half

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Speaker 4: a million being added for new phones. Tesla up a

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Speaker 4: quarter of percent. They're having to put over and over

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Speaker 4: the air update to basically technically recall Chinese cars, but

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Speaker 4: here in the US they're doing model wise. New ericson

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Speaker 4: down thirteen percent on the back of telecoms equipment not

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Speaker 4: selling as expected.

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Speaker 3: Mike Carol, Let's turn to TikTok. Now this is such

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Speaker 3: a big issue in Washington. We're joined by Frank McCord,

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Speaker 3: executive chairman of McCourt Global and founder of Project Liberty,

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Speaker 3: which had made a formal offer to acquire the social

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Speaker 3: media giant less than two weeks ago, not long before

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Speaker 3: the band deadline. Frank, I wanted to start with the

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Speaker 3: reprieve that President Donald Trump signed hours after taking office.

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Speaker 3: How has that complicated efforts by you and other bidders,

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Speaker 3: perhaps to get byt dance to come to the table

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Speaker 3: to talk about a sale.

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Speaker 7: Well, I really hasn't complicated anything from our perspective, Mike,

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Speaker 7: we just continue to, you know, chug along and we're prepared.

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Speaker 12: Here.

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Speaker 7: We're hanging around the hoops, so to speak, waiting for

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Speaker 7: Bike Dance to make a decision, and if it takes

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Speaker 7: a little bit more time, so be it. But you know,

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Speaker 7: we feel we're in a really unique position to buy

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Speaker 7: us TikTok. We're the only ones that actually put a

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Speaker 7: bid in and submitted to the Department of Justice before

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Speaker 7: the original deadline and where we were ready to roll

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Speaker 7: but for a signature from BYT Dance. So we continue

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Speaker 7: to be ready. We have more and more conversations. There's

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Speaker 7: more and more excitement around this. We had a fabulous

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Speaker 7: couple of days in Davos where there was great, great

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Speaker 7: excitement around the project. So yeah, I remain optimistic and

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Speaker 7: I think we just have to give BYT Dance time

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Speaker 7: to sort this out, but I believe they will. You're

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Speaker 7: buying us TikTok without the Chinese technology is the way forward.

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Speaker 3: What if you heard back from Byte Dance in response

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Speaker 3: to this offer, Have they been engaging much at all

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Speaker 3: and would President Donald Trump be in position to perhaps

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Speaker 3: help you get them to really get the discussions going.

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Speaker 7: Well. My hope is that President Trump can be you know,

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Speaker 7: a deal maker here and help get this deal done

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Speaker 7: by convincing by Dance to actually sell us TikTok and

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Speaker 7: not shut it down. I mean, those are the two

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Speaker 7: choices here, and by Dance themselves have been pretty silent.

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Speaker 7: I mean, they've acknowledged receipt of our offer, but I

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Speaker 7: think quite frankly, they're they're digesting everything. I think their

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Speaker 7: hope originally was relief from the Supreme Court, which they

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Speaker 7: did not get, as you well know. And now I

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Speaker 7: think they're in a new reality and so they're confronted

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Speaker 7: with a shutdown or a sale, and we believe that

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Speaker 7: a sale is the best way forward. It will keep

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Speaker 7: the app lit up and as I say, without the

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Speaker 7: Chinese technology, why not sell?

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Speaker 2: Who have you been talking to? Where's the excitement in Davos?

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Speaker 7: It's interesting. We had a little house called Future House

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Speaker 7: that on the promenade, and the promenade was lined with

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Speaker 7: different AI products being marketed and so forth. It was

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Speaker 7: the theme really of Davos this year. And Caroline our house,

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Speaker 7: Future House had a long line outside.

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Speaker 4: Of people who want to invest with you, though, Frank,

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Speaker 4: you speaking to mister Bees, for example, because he's joined

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Speaker 4: another consort him, it.

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Speaker 7: Seems well, mister Beasts has joined all consortiums, so he's

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Speaker 7: interested in keeping his his options open. I've talked to Jimmy,

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Speaker 7: others have talked to Jimmy. You've read the reports that

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Speaker 7: he has not aligned with a single bidder, But put

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Speaker 7: that aside. I think the people that were really interested

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Speaker 7: in of course, they're interested in seeing what will happen

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Speaker 7: with TikTok. But as I've said over and over again,

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Speaker 7: this is an opportunity to actually reimagine how the Internet

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Speaker 7: works and give people ownership and control of their identity

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Speaker 7: and their data and their relationships. And that's very exciting

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Speaker 7: to people, and including by the way, TikTok influencers.

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Speaker 4: And that is what sets you apart the fact that

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Speaker 4: you're building to a new tech stack basically, and a

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Speaker 4: decentralized one at that. Frank, what does it mean to

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Speaker 4: potentially work with the US government? Would you want to

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Speaker 4: have the US government also buying? In fact talking to

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Speaker 4: the US government. We're just going to have to listen

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Speaker 4: in to President Trump. Just one moment, Frank sit with us.

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Speaker 4: We were just asking you if you'd work alongside Trump.

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Speaker 4: He's thinking about potentially in the US the government owned

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Speaker 4: a piece of TikTok.

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Speaker 7: Well, yeah, we absolutely want to work alongside President Trump,

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Speaker 7: and I think he could be very, very helpful. I

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Speaker 7: do think ultimately the US TikTok is going to be

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Speaker 7: in the hands of the private sector and totally disentangled

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Speaker 7: from the Chinese technology. I think that's really clear in

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Speaker 7: the legislation and was made doubly clear. You know on

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Speaker 7: pages five and six of the Supreme Court decision that

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Speaker 7: their Congress is looking for a complete disentanglement. And that's Caroline,

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Speaker 7: which puts us in a unique position because we have

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Speaker 7: the tech stack. We've been building it for the last

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Speaker 7: five years to move the user base and the data

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Speaker 7: onto This is.

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Speaker 4: A story that will evolve. We thank you so much

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Speaker 4: for your patients. Coming on from Rome, Frank mcort, executive

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Speaker 4: Chairman of the Court Global and founder of Project Liberty.

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Speaker 4: We hope we will come back as the negotiations continue.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk about how this is impacting TikTok users and

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Speaker 4: the brands that use it. Rachel tipographs founder and CEO

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Speaker 4: make Macks, an e commance marketing platform for multi channel brams.

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Speaker 2: What did they make of a sudden going black? Did

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Speaker 2: brands pull away from spending on TikTok? It's been wild.

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Speaker 13: January eighteenth, ten pm, New York Time, we saw TikTok

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Speaker 13: brand traffic go to zero percent. It stayed that way

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Speaker 13: for fifteen hours. Traffic started to come back January nineteenth, twelve,

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Speaker 13: fifteen pm, and for about two business days it held

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Speaker 13: at zero point five percent of our traffic. In the

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Speaker 13: last two business days it has risen. It now represents

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Speaker 13: around fifteen percent of our total traffic. I've been coming

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Speaker 13: on the show now for two years.

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Speaker 2: You've heard me.

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Speaker 13: Say TikTok typically is thirty five percent of our traffic.

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Speaker 13: Based on this meteoric rise in the last two business days,

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Speaker 13: we at mcmack believe that we're going to get back

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Speaker 13: to normal rates on Monday, Rachel.

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Speaker 3: What is the fallout for businesses that are tied in

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Speaker 3: some way or another to TikTok from all the uncertainty

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Speaker 3: surrounding whether will continue, whether there will be a purchaser.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, so I think the delta between fifteen and thirty

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Speaker 13: five percent is essentially all those fortune one thousand brands

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Speaker 13: that are feeling very skittish right now with the uncertainty

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Speaker 13: and who's going to be the new parent owner as

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Speaker 13: well as just the overall view right now of the

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Speaker 13: Supreme Court. They don't want to be held liable and

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Speaker 13: typically they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on that platform.

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Speaker 13: So there is a large set right now of the

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Speaker 13: fortune one thousand brands that are just waiting to see

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Speaker 13: what the outcome is.

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Speaker 4: Going to be, make sure they have to make decisions

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Speaker 4: and whey to allocate right now, we're just seeing some

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Speaker 4: of your data.

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Speaker 2: Who's winning?

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Speaker 13: Yeah, So these brands, they're heavily reliant obviously on their

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Speaker 13: marketing budgets. It's how they drive demand generation and sales.

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Speaker 13: So in the last I would say two weeks, we

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Speaker 13: have watched spend move out of TikTok as well as Meta.

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Speaker 13: We can circle back on that into Alphabet, which is

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Speaker 13: paid search, YouTube, DV three sixty and pinterest. The reason

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Speaker 13: why is that brands are looking for reach, conversion and

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Speaker 13: brand safety. Alphabet absolutely delivers on reach and conversion. They've

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Speaker 13: made enormous efforts around brand safety since all of the

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Speaker 13: challenges YouTube had in twenty twelve, and then Pinterest. I've

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Speaker 13: been on the show, I talked about it. It's a

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Speaker 13: dark horse that no one talks about. It's the safest

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Speaker 13: place on the Internet and brands are moving dollars there

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Speaker 13: because Pinterest can drive conversion as well. So the big

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Speaker 13: winners are Alphabet and Pinterest. The reason why we've also

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Speaker 13: seen a decline in meta traffic in the month of

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Speaker 13: January has everything to do with the announcement Zuckerberg made

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Speaker 13: two and a half weeks ago when he announced that

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00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 13: fact checking was going to be removed from the platform.

440
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 13: Brands once again fell skittish. Brands care about their long

441
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 13: term brand equity, their brand safety, and whenever a platform

442
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 13: becomes political, they reallocate dollars to platforms that they have

443
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 13: more confidence in their brand safety.

444
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 3: Rachel, we were just talking to a prospective bidder for TikTok.

445
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 3: What does all this churn mean for its value and

446
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 3: perhaps ultimate purchase price.

447
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 13: I'm personally skeptical of what's going to happen with this

448
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 13: divestiture if it goes into the hands of a new

449
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 13: US parent owner. TikTok is not TikTok without the algorithm.

450
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 13: The community is based on the app automatically pushing you

451
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 13: like minded people. That's what makes TikTok so magical. With

452
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 13: a new US parent owner, if they can't replicate the

453
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 13: magic of that algorithm, I know with significant confidence people

454
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 13: are going to move out of TikTok.

455
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: We saw it in the last two weeks.

456
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 13: It's so easy to build a new community in a

457
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 13: new app. Will be red Note, will it be blue sky,

458
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 13: will it be Pinterest? Only time will tell, and so

459
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 13: I have trepidation on what's going to happen From a

460
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 13: brand advertiser standpoint. They're going to go wherever eyeballs and

461
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 13: engagement are, so brands can move their dollars very easily.

462
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 13: I think we've all seen that in the month of January.

463
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 13: It's like trading on Wall Street media buying. You can

464
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 13: move a dollar from one platform to the next in

465
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 13: a second.

466
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 3: Rachel Tippograph, founder and CEO of Mick Mac, we thank

467
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: you more. Coming up next, this is Bloomberg. Now let's

468
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 3: talk about open Ai, SoftBank and Oracle and their plans

469
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 3: to open the first data center associated with the one

470
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 3: hundred billion dollar Stargate venture. Let's bring in Bloomberg's Brody

471
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: Ford for more Brody. There's been a lot of talk

472
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: about this project that was heralded at the White House

473
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 3: on Wednesday with President Donald Trump, and that included the

474
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: prospect of a lot of jobs being created. But you've

475
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 3: got some findings that just maybe that's not quite so.

476
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 12: Yeah. On Tuesday, Trump said one hundred thousand American jobs open.

477
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 12: AIS doubled down on that number, but we got our

478
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 12: hands on some documents from the government down there showing

479
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 12: that there is a guarantee of a whole fifty seven

480
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 12: full time jobs. Obviously a far cry from the one

481
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 12: hundred thousand range. Of course, when you build a data center,

482
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 12: you're going to employ thousands of construction folks. Those jobs

483
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 12: go away at some point, and then the people needed

484
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 12: to keep things running. It's this much smaller number. This

485
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 12: is just one project of what will likely be many,

486
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 12: but it certainly kind of throws a bit of water

487
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 12: on the idea that data center infrastructure is a massive

488
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 12: long term job creator for this country.

489
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 4: Fifty seven is so stark brody. And then we wonder

490
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 4: what the sixty five billion dollar capex coming from Meta

491
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 4: is going to mean in terms of jobs as well

492
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 4: as the data centers here in the US. Just thinking

493
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 4: about the players involved the Oracle. Now Oracle's busy also

494
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 4: potentially being thrown out. There is a bidder for TikTok,

495
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 4: but it's an infrastructure provider to TikTok, And I'm just

496
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 4: interested about what you're hearing in terms of supporting TikTok

497
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 4: when it comes to Oracle, Visa, VI, Apple, and Alphabet.

498
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 12: Right, we're in this interesting moment where Trump says, hey,

499
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 12: it's cool, keep working with TikTok. We're gonna figure something out.

500
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 12: I go on my phone. I'm an Android user. I

501
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 12: can't download TikTok. I already have it. Same thing with Apple.

502
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 12: Oracle says, hey, you're paying us a lot of money

503
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 12: to run your servers. We're gonna keep doing it, right,

504
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 12: And so we had some exclusive details on that today

505
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 12: that going back even to twenty twenty one twenty twenty two,

506
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 12: TikTok was one of the most important early customers for

507
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 12: Oracle's cloud. I mean, this is really kind of like

508
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 12: close to their heart as it relates to them becoming

509
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 12: a major infrastructure provider. Like you know, we found that

510
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 12: they had special code names for TikTok. They called it

511
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 12: talysis internally because it was so top secret. And so,

512
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 12: I mean, this is a big business line and they're

513
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 12: not going to want to turn that off unless they

514
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 12: really have to.

515
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: Bloomberg's party forward.

516
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 10: Thank you, Cara, thank you.

517
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, Mike, it's time for talking tech and first art,

518
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 4: we're looking at shares a Twilio as you see surging today.

519
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 4: The company reported preliminary fourth quarter revenue growth at top

520
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 4: down assessments. The software maker also announcing its Investor Day

521
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 4: that it authorizes a two billion dollar shareback pil plan

522
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 4: plus data Bricks said it has raised more than fifteen

523
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 4: billion dollars in funding from investors include Meta and Countries

524
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 4: to Singapore and Kata. The software maker now holds a

525
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 4: valuation of sixty two billion dollars and says it plans

526
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 4: to use a financing for investments, acquisitions, and international expansion.

527
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 4: And shares of American Express, as you see, just trading

528
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 4: off of their record highs today, at least the credit

529
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 4: card company reporting fourth quarter expenses that were somewhat higher

530
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: than expected, even as profits increased twelve percent, with higher

531
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 4: than expected spending during the holidays. I talked with the

532
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 4: CEOC squery and he's still committed to tech spending. He

533
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 4: says that the business is becoming more and more digital

534
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 4: and automated. We continue to invest in tech in a

535
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 4: big way. Now, coming up, how YouTubers have propelled Trump

536
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 4: to a second presidency.

537
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: We're on that story.

538
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 10: Next, this is Bluemad technology.

539
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 4: Breaking news on Apple from our own Mark German. And

540
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 4: this coming so we understand that a key executive, Kim

541
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 4: of woraf company veteran, will be moving to help whip

542
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 4: the area of AI and Siri into shape. Vorath is

543
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 4: a vice president and she's in charge at the moment

544
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 4: of program management. She's since moved to the AI and

545
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 4: Machine Learning division, according to people with knowledge of the matter,

546
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 4: top deputy therefore to the AI chief John Gandriaria. And

547
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 4: all of this is as we understand, the people are

548
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 4: not publicly announcing it, but being ulstering the AI vision

549
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 4: of Apple, which many feel has been behind some of

550
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 4: those technology peers.

551
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: Let's talk about a peer alphabet.

552
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 4: Let's talk about YouTube because we want to do a

553
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 4: deep dive now into the role played by some key

554
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 4: YouTubers in particular some of the podcast makers that we

555
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 4: understand and potentially helped propel the second administration of Trump.

556
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 4: We want to get to Davey Alba, who has done

557
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 4: an absolute beautiful deep dive for our big take on

558
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 4: all of this.

559
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: And Davey just talked to us a little.

560
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 4: Bit about why you were first interested in the likes

561
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 4: of Joe Rogan and the role they played via YouTube.

562
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, of course, you know, we started to realize that

563
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 6: the power centers in media and tech were really shifting,

564
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 6: and I think you know, seeing Joe Rogan be at

565
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 6: the inauguration and actually in the Capitol rotunda over the

566
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 6: past weekend is really symbolic of the shifting media landscape.

567
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 6: We wanted to understand what kind of power he had

568
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 6: and the messages that he and a cohort of other

569
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 6: podcast masters who are wildly popular onto what they put out.

570
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 6: So we started to listen to these podcasts and ended

571
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 6: up analyzing almost thirteen hundred hours of footage.

572
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 4: Two thousand YouTube videos. Is what you watched over the

573
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 4: last two years? How similar? How's the messaging been?

574
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 6: Briefly, the messages have been extremely similar. There are overlapping

575
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 6: talking points and the way the podcasters painted a picture

576
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 6: of America was that it's in a desperate place with

577
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 6: soaring inflation, migrant streaming across the border. You know, public

578
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 6: schools have gone too far with their gender policies, and

579
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 6: it's just stunning to see how often these messages are

580
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 6: repeated and the fact that this became more political as

581
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 6: the election neared.

582
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 4: Dave Alba, it's a must read. We urge our viewers

583
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 4: to go and see it. But that does it for

584
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 4: this edition of Blue Bag Technology. Don't forget to check

585
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: out our podcast, This is Bloomberg Technology.