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Speaker 1: Will.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: I am devastated that I have to ask you this

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Speaker 3: question because I was supposed to be there with you

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Speaker 3: to enjoy it myself, I know, but Jensen and I

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Speaker 3: were not able to join you and Susan on the

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Speaker 3: double date to Yamava. Jensen had surgery earlier in the

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Speaker 3: week and was not ready for a long drive. I know,

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Speaker 3: Nate bargatzi at Yammava with you. Tell me how was it?

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Speaker 1: How one? How was the steakhouse? Two? How was the show? Three?

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Speaker 1: How was the venue?

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Speaker 4: You missed? You both missed them?

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 4: It was a pretty great night. It really was.

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Speaker 5: Because first of all, I'd never been to the Amavah before.

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Speaker 5: Huh me neither, And it's like two or three years old,

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Speaker 5: so it's brand new. I mean when I say there

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Speaker 5: was not a piece of paper on the floor. It

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Speaker 5: was the cleanest casino I've ever been in in my life.

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Speaker 5: It is spotless, The rooms gorgeous. They took care of us,

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Speaker 5: you know, checked us in and we get right to

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Speaker 5: our room, and then they brought us up to this

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Speaker 5: bar and that's where we got to meet everybody that

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Speaker 5: everybody from the Yamavas staff, and it was just so cool.

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Speaker 5: I was thinking of both of you the whole time

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Speaker 5: I was there, because the first thing they're like, they

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Speaker 5: came in and they said, oh, we've got this.

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Speaker 4: I think it's called the eighty three.

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Speaker 5: It's like this list of all of these top shelf

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Speaker 5: alcohols that have been collected all around the world, so

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Speaker 5: it's like some of them are from one hundred years ago.

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Speaker 5: Someone's like they're working on cultivating this list of really

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Speaker 5: specialty drinks where they told us, they go, oh, no,

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Speaker 5: we have a five thousand dollars margarita what where it's

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Speaker 5: like a specialty kind of you know, old school tequila

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Speaker 5: in with the gold rimmed and the glass. You get

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Speaker 5: to keep the glass and it's like a Versace glass

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Speaker 5: or Gucci glass, like some specific kind of handcut thing.

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Speaker 4: And then as we're leaving, a.

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Speaker 5: Guy's like, excuse me, but I love the podcast, big

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Speaker 5: fan of the show, and I thought you would really

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Speaker 5: like to see this because I think this is something

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Speaker 5: Rider would love. And they go to so they have

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Speaker 5: these lockers all set up with you can join this

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Speaker 5: club where if you have specialty alcohol, they go into

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Speaker 5: the locker thing and.

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Speaker 4: They'll save it for you. But then he goes watch this, and.

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Speaker 5: He reaches behind this thing and he presses a button,

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Speaker 5: the secret button, and the whole front opens up and

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Speaker 5: there's a speakeasy inside that's Now you're in a walk

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Speaker 5: in humidor with cigars from all over the world that's

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Speaker 5: only has four little tables in there.

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Speaker 4: And oh, this is the rider Strong room right here.

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Speaker 5: And then we go down to the casino and I'm like,

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Speaker 5: and now we're in Daniel, so top of the line

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Speaker 5: spa it was, we could they then they brought us

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Speaker 5: to the steakhouse and they were doing the first the

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Speaker 5: specialty they thing they had that night was it was

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Speaker 5: a pasta courus that's cooked and burned off in the

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Speaker 5: cheese wheel.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love it when they do it in the

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Speaker 1: cheese wheel.

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Speaker 5: So they brought the big parmesan wheel out in front

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Speaker 5: of our table. Yeah, they burn off the vodkas, homemade

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Speaker 5: pichi bukatini, which is like my favorite, like the thick

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Speaker 5: kind of spaghetti, all just in this amazing possible. That

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Speaker 5: was our appetizer, and then you're picking all the steaks

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Speaker 5: you want. We had these perfectly cooked steaks, and then

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Speaker 5: we went to the show twenty five hundred seat theater.

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Speaker 5: Gorgeous theater, wonderful seats right at the top. Nate Bargatzi.

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Speaker 5: This is the end of his tour. He'd been doing

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Speaker 5: this big, long tour and this is the very last episode.

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Speaker 5: His openers were great, but then he got on.

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Speaker 4: He did like a ninety minute set. He was up

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Speaker 4: there forever, just by himself.

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Speaker 5: He crushed it soon and I then tried to gamble,

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Speaker 5: which we suck at. I mean, we walked around with

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Speaker 5: money in our hands, going, I don't know what to

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Speaker 5: play because when we go to the slot machines, all

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Speaker 5: the slot machines are just you put your money and

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Speaker 5: it sucks it in like you've never owned it. And

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Speaker 5: then I don't know what's happening, and then all the

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Speaker 5: money's God, it was like, I don't know what the

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Speaker 5: hell just happened. So we were tried to sit at

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Speaker 5: a few tables, but we're just we realized we're just

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Speaker 5: not We're like not gamblers, right, But it got even

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Speaker 5: you know, so we're sitting at dinner and you know,

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Speaker 5: we were all supposed to go together, the four of us,

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Speaker 5: but a couple of the women who set this whole

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Speaker 5: thing up said do you mind if we have dinner

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Speaker 5: with you at soon? We're like, yes, please. We just

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Speaker 5: talked to each other all the time. We're sick of

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Speaker 5: each other, so yes, other people at the table will

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Speaker 5: be great. And they sat down with us, and halfway

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Speaker 5: through the meal, she looked over and she said, Okay,

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Speaker 5: we would really love to have you guys come and

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Speaker 5: do the pod here.

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Speaker 4: We will take care of you.

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Speaker 5: Do we want the spa all as like the spa,

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Speaker 5: the casino, the Rider Strong Room. I was like, I

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Speaker 5: don't think it's gonna be too much of an arm

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Speaker 5: twist to have us go there and record a couple

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Speaker 5: of episodes at this gorgeous casino. The property is absolutely stunning.

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Speaker 5: Like we'll take you down to the spot, we'll do

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Speaker 5: all this stuff, Like we'll totally take prid of you.

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Speaker 5: Co We would love for you to come and do

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Speaker 5: the podcast here at the al that's something we have

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Speaker 5: to do. And they said, we can pick a show

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Speaker 5: that it'll be around and the entertainment they're getting Mariah

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Speaker 5: Carey ed Sheeran in this twenty five hundred seat theater.

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Speaker 5: So you're seeing what seems like a you know, arena,

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Speaker 5: huge but right, but it's this this.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying arena show, intimate.

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Speaker 5: Intimate venue. And so it's just one banger after the

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Speaker 5: next that are going there. So they're like, pick a

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Speaker 5: show we can, We'll have you guys, come to the show.

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Speaker 5: You'll go to the casino, will comp everything, we will

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Speaker 5: do podcasts.

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Speaker 4: You're gonna love it. We're gonna have so much fun.

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Speaker 4: Go to the steakhouse.

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Speaker 5: The steakhouse they ate we ate at just won the

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Speaker 5: number one casino restaurant in the country, like beat all

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Speaker 5: the Vegas restaurants.

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Speaker 1: Everything them in will I'm in.

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Speaker 5: You missed you both missed out on a seriously fun night.

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Speaker 4: And again it was an hour and it took a

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Speaker 4: while to get there.

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Speaker 5: We left in a Friday, but the drive back on

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Speaker 5: Saturday it was like an hour and fifteen minutes home.

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Speaker 2: It was nothing.

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Speaker 4: And so it was it was great. Well, thank you,

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Speaker 4: it was awesome.

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Speaker 1: We will have to make a trip there. A family trend.

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Speaker 5: Oh look at you, which, by the way, like even

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Speaker 5: when they deliver your car the next day, you walk

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Speaker 5: it in and there's two waters sitting in your car too,

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Speaker 5: yamava waters waiting for you.

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Speaker 4: Top of the line. This is awesome.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod meets World. I'm Daniel Fishl, I'm writer strong,

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Speaker 1: and I do not know how to gamble.

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Speaker 4: I'm Wilford.

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Speaker 1: I'll teach you well, I'll teach you please.

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Speaker 2: It's awful.

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Speaker 1: When we are.

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Speaker 3: Recapping an episode and we see a writer's name who

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Speaker 3: we remember. It's a nice feeling of nostalgia. But you

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Speaker 3: know what else is kind of a cool feeling when

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Speaker 3: a writer's name pops up and we don't remember them

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Speaker 3: at all.

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Speaker 1: It's a mystery.

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Speaker 3: We want Saul immediately, and that is the case with

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Speaker 3: season five's Andy Gerdat. Andy wrote two episodes in season five,

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Speaker 3: Fraternity Row and a very Topanga Christmas, then mysteriously didn't

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Speaker 3: have another script for the rest of the season or

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Speaker 3: the run of the show. He already had quite a

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Speaker 3: resume before he joined Boymet's World somehow, beginning his career

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Speaker 3: in the Jefferson's Writer's Room as a first job, and

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Speaker 3: then working on Morcan Mindy, Head of the Class, Empty Nest,

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Speaker 3: Full House, Sister Sister, and his own show that he

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Speaker 3: co created for Fox, Herman's.

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Speaker 4: Head Great Show, Such a Yes.

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Speaker 3: And after this outstanding sitcom run, he jumped headfirst into

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Speaker 3: animated kids shows, entering a third and Emmy nominated category

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Speaker 3: of his career on shows like Sheriff Cally's Wild West,

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Speaker 3: super Normal, Fancy Nancy, and Paw Patrol, working NonStop even

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Speaker 3: after a whopping thirty five years in the business. To

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Speaker 3: say that is rare for a TV writer would be

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Speaker 3: an incredible understatement. And so today we welcome a very

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Speaker 3: esteemed TV writer whose work we all know, yet we

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Speaker 3: don't know him at all. It's time to talk to

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Speaker 3: season five Boy Meets World writer and the man who

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Speaker 3: could introduce Marshall and Chase to my kids. It's Andy Gridatt. Andy,

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Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining us. We are honored

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Speaker 3: that you said, yes, I know Jensen tracked you down

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Speaker 3: with an old home phone number to mind you, so

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Speaker 3: I hope we didn't scare you.

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Speaker 4: Kale five.

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Speaker 2: Very very interesting and exciting. Yeah that I don't even

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Speaker 2: know how he got the old We're about to get

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Speaker 2: rid of the landline anyway, and.

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Speaker 3: Well now you definitely have to because Jensen is your number. Well,

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Speaker 3: one of the many reasons we wanted to have you

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Speaker 3: on the podcast is you spent just season five on

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Speaker 3: Boy Meets World in what has been in an incredibly

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Speaker 3: impressive career in TV, and though your name was familiar,

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Speaker 3: we could not place your face. Did they keep you

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Speaker 3: away from us in some sort of don't feed the

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Speaker 3: animals situation?

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Speaker 2: Or they very much did. I think they were saving

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Speaker 2: you guys from me. It was an odd thing I was.

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Speaker 2: I was a freelance writer, so I was not there

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Speaker 2: every day. I never met you guys.

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Speaker 4: Have a pretty good memory, and I was like, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Remember even for writers. Yeah, I kind of disappeared in

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Speaker 2: the wall. Well would work there, but yeah, no they

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Speaker 2: I never met you guys because they I'm not even

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Speaker 2: sure they invited me to the taping. Wow, I remember,

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Speaker 2: But it was one of those situations back then. It's

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Speaker 2: different now, but in those days, they a typical network

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Speaker 2: show would use some freelance freelance writers, right so that

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Speaker 2: the staff couldn't keep up with the pace without some help.

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Speaker 2: And so I had worked with Bob Tishler on Empty Nest.

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Speaker 2: I've done four episodes of Empty Nest work and he

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Speaker 2: needed some help, and so he called me in and

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Speaker 2: so I just did them. You know. I came in

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Speaker 2: and I met with the staff, but I never met

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Speaker 2: with anybody else. So I have no good stories. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: I have no I'm not going to be any entertaining stories.

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Speaker 3: Listen, we don't even need entertaining stories about our set.

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Speaker 3: We'll just take any entertaining stories you have period.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'll try to manage those.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Well, before we get into your non stories of Boy

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Speaker 3: Meets World, I want to talk about the genesis of

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Speaker 3: your writing career and how someone ends up with The

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Speaker 3: Jeffersons as their first writer's room.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I say, that was it seems like another

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Speaker 2: It was another era in television. There were three networks

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Speaker 2: when I came out to LA writing. So, and I've

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Speaker 2: mentioned this to any times the people when I started writing,

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Speaker 2: there were there was one black sitcom writer in all

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Speaker 2: of Hollywood, guy named Thad Mumford, who I never worked with.

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Speaker 4: Uh, Sad was great. Sad wrote for mash all the time.

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Speaker 2: You say, yes, he was a very good writer. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but there was just so. I mean, all these shows

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Speaker 2: like The Jeffersons, which now would have a primarily black

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Speaker 2: writing staff, didn't have any black writers. So it was

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Speaker 2: and because the show had been on the air for

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Speaker 2: quite a while at that point, what happens is you know,

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Speaker 2: they get the writing staff just gets runs out of stories.

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Speaker 2: They just can't think of anything new, so they bring

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Speaker 2: in freelancers to try to sort of come up with

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Speaker 2: something fresh. And so that's that's how that I. You know,

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Speaker 2: I was just pounding my just bear was a kid.

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Speaker 2: I was twenty six, I think five even maybe, and

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Speaker 2: I was just pounding on doors trying to get in.

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Speaker 2: And that was a place you could get in because

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Speaker 2: they'd they'd run out of stories, right. I pitched them

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Speaker 2: some stories and sold one. But I have an entertaining

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Speaker 2: story about that Jefferson's Please Please Okay, So it was

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Speaker 2: called Florence's Union. I don't know if you remember the show,

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Speaker 2: but Florence was Marla Gibbons made right. So it was

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Speaker 2: a story where she formed a union of maids in

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Speaker 2: the building. Okay, you can comedy high jinks and sue. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So we write it, my late partner and I wrote

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Speaker 2: it many years later. If you remember the movie Basic Instinct,

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Speaker 2: Michael j Okay, so infamous movie. So there's a scene

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Speaker 2: when Michael Douglas has been fired from the police force

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Speaker 2: and he's and he's laying on his couch, you know,

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Speaker 2: with a Battle of Scotch or something, and the TV's

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Speaker 2: going in the background and it was playing our episode.

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Speaker 2: And the only reason we knew because on the screen

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Speaker 2: for like a second was Marla Gibbs was holding a

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Speaker 2: sign that said on strike. And so my partner and

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Speaker 2: I happened to see the movie together in a theater.

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Speaker 2: We that's we called the writers Guild, and I think

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Speaker 2: we got a couple hundred bucks out of it. I

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Speaker 2: like to say to the people I co wrote basic.

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Speaker 5: Who now at the time, who's running the Jefferson's writers room?

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Speaker 2: Oh? God, Bernie Ross And I can't remember his partner's

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Speaker 2: name we worked with. God, are their names of going

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Speaker 2: out of my head? Sorry, I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: That's okay.

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Speaker 5: So The Jeffersons was a spin off, right, It was

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Speaker 5: a spinoff of All in the.

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Speaker 2: Family family, which I then ironically worked for worked on

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Speaker 2: for three seasons. I did Archie Bunker's Place a few

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Speaker 2: years later, which was the actual spinoff of All in

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Speaker 2: the Family.

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Speaker 5: So these are all Norman Lear shows, correct, Norman Lear shows,

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Speaker 5: who is the essentially the godfather of the American.

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Speaker 2: Sitcom Yes, to a large degree, he is of the

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Speaker 2: modern sitcom.

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Speaker 5: Right, correct, Right, I mean he didn't he didn't do

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Speaker 5: stuff like The Honeymooners, which I guess you could go

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Speaker 5: back and say was the start of the family sitcom.

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Speaker 5: But the modern day family sitcom, the all in the families,

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Speaker 5: the Vernon Shirley's all, that's all Norman lear right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it stems to a large degree from Norman. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I mean he was the one who's that who just

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Speaker 2: sort of decided, you know, a sitcom doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: be soft, it could be a g it could be outrageous,

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Speaker 2: and you know people been doing that ever since.

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Speaker 4: Right, I'm sorry, I take it back. I think Levernon

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Speaker 4: Shirley was Gary Marshall.

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Speaker 2: That was Gary Marshall.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that was not Yes, geez, some of the biggest ever.

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Speaker 4: That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: With your writing partner who you mentioned. What was his name?

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Speaker 2: His name was Steve Crimberg. He's passed away since, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: we started out together in nineteen seventy eight, I think

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Speaker 2: was our first credit even and worked together for quite

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Speaker 2: a while and then he sort of got fed up

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Speaker 2: with the business and moved away, and then I went

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Speaker 2: on solo for quite a while, and then I started

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Speaker 2: writing again with a partner then Steve Sullivan. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: we wrote a lot of cartoons together.

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Speaker 3: So well, you went on to Mork and Mindy, Archie

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Speaker 3: Bunker's Place as well as you mentioned, and TV version

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Speaker 3: of nine to five.

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Speaker 1: The list goes on on. But I wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: you also about Head of the Class.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a massive ratings hit, but allegedly had

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Speaker 3: a lot of egos and issues on set.

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Speaker 1: What was that experience like.

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Speaker 2: Well, Head of the Class I'm very friendly with I've

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Speaker 2: stayed friendly with most most of the people the writing

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Speaker 2: staff because it was it was sort of like a

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Speaker 2: Bunker mentality, because it was a very difficult show to do.

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Speaker 2: It was a bit too big of a cast. You

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Speaker 2: guys know from you know when you're when you're structuring

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Speaker 2: a sitcom, you don't want to add too many characters

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Speaker 2: because then everybody gets a little bit less and then

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Speaker 2: you can't keep all the actors busy. It makes everything difficult.

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Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, the guys who they were very

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Speaker 2: good writers, but they missed they misconceived the show originally,

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Speaker 2: so we had this huge classroom of kids and then

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Speaker 2: Howard Hessman was the star. But but we just couldn't

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Speaker 2: keep everybody busy, so the set was always in turmoil.

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Speaker 2: The writer's room was fine.

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Speaker 3: Though very close with Tony Odell, who is a dialogue

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Speaker 3: coach and I work with a lot on my Disney

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Speaker 3: Channel shows, and Tony Odell is a gem of a

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Speaker 3: human being, and I can't imagine that he was any

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Speaker 3: different back then.

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Speaker 2: I again spent very little time on the set, right

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Speaker 2: because I was the guy stuck in the writer's room

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Speaker 2: trying to crank out next week's exactly devising producer on it,

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Speaker 2: and Tony was always fine. I don't know if he

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Speaker 2: if he would confirm or deny some of the difficulties,

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Speaker 2: but I think it was mostly stemmed from actors who

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Speaker 2: were unhappy. Yeah, they didn't have enough to do, which

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Speaker 2: is understandable. And then you have two lines and one

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Speaker 2: of them what happened next, mister Moore?

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Speaker 5: Right right, Hessman's first show after Karp wasn't it?

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Speaker 2: Yes? It was?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so he was he was coming on. He was

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Speaker 4: a big star by that point.

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Speaker 2: He was a pretty big star, and he was also

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Speaker 2: frankly a bit of a grouch and was not happy

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Speaker 2: he'd been sold the idea of the show, which is

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Speaker 2: to say you're the there's two stars you and then

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Speaker 2: the class, but you're going to be the co star

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Speaker 2: of every episode. And it really didn't quite lay out

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Speaker 2: that right.

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Speaker 5: Well, they probably pitched him like it was welcome back Catter,

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Speaker 5: like this is your year, mister Catter essentially, but it didn't.

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Speaker 2: Quite plan now, and he was not particularly happy with

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Speaker 2: that aspect of it, and probably some other things. I

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Speaker 2: always liked Howard personally whenever I would talk to him

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Speaker 2: off off the set, but on the set he could

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Speaker 2: be pretty grouchy. And anyway it was, it was what

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Speaker 2: it was. You know, it's it's water under the bridge.

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Speaker 2: I look back on that stuff now and just think,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, I cannot believe we were all fighting

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Speaker 2: over Yeah, that joke really well.

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Speaker 3: And then you get to create your very own show

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Speaker 3: with Herman's Head one of Fox's first big swings when

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Speaker 3: it came to original sitcoms. What did it feel like

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Speaker 3: going from writer's room to suddenly being your own showrunner

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Speaker 3: and EP?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I never eat heat it, which

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Speaker 2: is okay, there's a long story to that which I

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Speaker 2: will not give you the whole ugly story. But Herman's

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Speaker 2: Head was an idea that my white partner and I

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Speaker 2: came up with and we sold to ABC. Back in

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Speaker 2: the god it would have been nineteen eighty three or something.

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Speaker 2: It was ahead of its time. It was ahead of

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Speaker 2: the curve for obvious reasons and because it took place

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Speaker 2: inside a guy's head, and so ABC passed on it,

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Speaker 2: but it became kind of a famous unsold pilot and

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Speaker 2: we got work off of it forever. And then in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety I think eighty nine maybe our agency CIA,

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Speaker 2: which was super powerful then, more much more powerful than

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Speaker 2: than it is now, and they called us and said,

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Speaker 2: by the way, Herman's Head just sold a Fox, which

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Speaker 2: was like, wait what yeah, because we were producing out

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Speaker 2: of the Class and we just signed a two year

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Speaker 2: deal to continue producing Head of the Class, so we

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Speaker 2: couldn't back out of it. And it was like we

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Speaker 2: got sort of blindsided, and so we made it a

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Speaker 2: deal to be a creative consultants on it, but we

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Speaker 2: got epe the show. It was for us extremely frustrating

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Speaker 2: because yes, it was a funny show, there's no quest

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Speaker 2: remember it very fondly, but it wasn't quite the show

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Speaker 2: he and I had imagined we'd imagined something, uh that

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Speaker 2: would be funny, but also you know win Emmy's because

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Speaker 2: that it could be about the human thought process. You

390
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Speaker 2: could dramatize what it's like to be a human being

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Speaker 2: and those important decisions we all make.

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Speaker 6: Basically what inside out and made a billion dollars. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: when I first heard of inside Out, I was like,

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Speaker 6: this is just Herman's Head. I remember Herman's Head so well,

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Speaker 6: and I loved the concept as a kid. I only

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Speaker 6: saw a few episodes, but I remember thinking, this is brilliant,

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Speaker 6: this idea, and then inside Out just took it to

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Speaker 6: the they never gave I never made a penny on

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Speaker 6: inside Out.

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Speaker 2: That yeah, inside out, but it certainly did take it

401
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Speaker 2: closer to what he and I had imagined than the

402
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Speaker 2: actual show was. So it was, it was it was

403
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Speaker 2: nice to have a show in the air. We would

404
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Speaker 2: go in every week as consultants, but we weren't able

405
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Speaker 2: to run the show because we were running out of

406
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Speaker 2: the class, and so it was it was a frustrating experience,

407
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Speaker 2: I would say in general, I mean I was pleased

408
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: that pleased that it was on the air, and proud

409
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Speaker 2: of it, and I'm glad. I'm thrilled that people seem

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Speaker 2: to remember it so fondly because you can't watch it anywhere.

411
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Speaker 2: They've never it's They didn't even do a DVD set, nothing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it was just you can't watch it, but

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Speaker 2: it turns up periodically. I noticed it. They did a

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Speaker 2: little thing on Only Murders in the Building.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: They did a head piece on one of those shows

417
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Speaker 2: where I said, hey, you remember that show Herman's Head

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Speaker 2: and then they showed clips from the show. Well, sometimes

419
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,199
Speaker 2: my head feels like that, and I was low. Somehow

420
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Speaker 2: we're still in the cultural zeitgeist. Yeah, it wasn't. It

421
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Speaker 2: was rewarding in its way, but also had a downside

422
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Speaker 2: for us personally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So some other jobs you worked on, and you worked

425
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 3: on Saved by the Bell, The College Years, Empty Nest,

426
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 3: The Parenthood, Sister Sister, Full House, Step by Step, and

427
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Speaker 3: also Boy Meets were Ald And so you mentioned that

428
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Speaker 3: Bob Tishler brought you in as a freelancer to write

429
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Speaker 3: some episodes for us. Had you ever seen Boy Meets

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Speaker 3: World before getting the job?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Sure, sure, And I had interviewed with Michael Jacobs

432
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Speaker 2: on other shows, but I never worked I knew him

433
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Speaker 2: but I didn't really. We never be interviewed, I think

434
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Speaker 2: for the Torkulsen's and some other show he had with

435
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: Elliott Gould and Dee Wallace Stone. I forget what it

436
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 2: was called. Anyway, so I knew I knew him a

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00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,360
Speaker 2: little bit, but Bob was the one who brought me in.

438
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 2: No I had seen the show, of course, Yeah, it was.

439
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 2: It was a highly regarded show. It was considered a

440
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 2: step among writers in the business. It was considered a

441
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: step up from the say of the Bells and that

442
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 2: kind of thing was It was definitely you guys. Did

443
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: you know the stories that were about something? They weren't

444
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,439
Speaker 2: twenty two minutes of chit chat most of the time

445
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: until I got there. No I seen I was, And

446
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 2: if memory served, I think Bob said, oh, come in

447
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 2: and pitch some stuff, and we're looking for a Christmas

448
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: episode if you have any Christmas ideas. So I came

449
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 2: up with this that story and they and they liked it,

450
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 2: and and then I wrote that one, and then I

451
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: think I wrote the second one, which was not my idea.

452
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 2: I think they gave that to me.

453
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 6: So, wait, what was your pitch? Do you remember? Was

454
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 6: was your pitch? The very time the Panga and Corey

455
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 6: or was the pitch that do Christmas Carol with them?

456
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: Know, the pitch was kids at that age, you know,

457
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 2: teenagers often they were raised everybody's raised with this is

458
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 2: the way you do Christmas? Yes, and your way of

459
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: doing Christmas isn't always the way my family does Christmas.

460
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: And we open up Christmas, well we do it. Oh

461
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 2: you put tinsel on your tree. That's great and all that,

462
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 2: all those little family traditions are that it'd be funny

463
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 2: if we can coct a reason why, you know, to

464
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: Peg and Corey had you know, we're going to spend

465
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,959
Speaker 2: Christmas together and it's like, wait a minute, she does

466
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: it all wrong. It was a real issue between them

467
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 2: and that's what they sparked to, and that's what I like.

468
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: I thought it was kind of a fresh way to

469
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: do a Christmas story that I had not seen and

470
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: it seemed rooted and character, yeah, and character and stuff

471
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 2: that relatable for.

472
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say very relatable. Who hasn't had

473
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 3: those conversations with their friends were like what.

474
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: Do you do?

475
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's not what we really like.

476
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 5: The whole conversation with the three of us going like,

477
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 5: wait a minute, wait, whoa you open your present?

478
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: Wait?

479
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: You call it Christmas eve Day?

480
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, who plays the elf? And you do one

481
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: at the time, because everybody get one present.

482
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: On Santa's Last But you did that, so you were

483
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 1: like seventeen.

484
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: That's weird.

485
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: We were in our twenties. Yeah. So you mentioned that

486
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: you were never you never got to meet any of us.

487
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 3: I'm assuming that meant you never met Bill Daniels or

488
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 3: any of the adult actors as well.

489
00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: Never. Now, in fact, you guys can tell me. Did

490
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: you used to shoot partly in front of an audience

491
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: but then stuff other stuff you just block and tape? Right?

492
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 3: We had a block and tape day, which was always Wednesday,

493
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: and then Thursday we would shoot in front of a

494
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: live studio audience, right right, Anything that wasn't block and tape.

495
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't remember. I was kind of busy

496
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: in those days. They may have invited me, but I

497
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 2: just couldn't make the the schedule, or they may never

498
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 2: have invited me. I don't remember.

499
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 4: But did you come to the run throughs?

500
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 2: No? No? Nothing, Wow, nothing, I was nothing. It was

501
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 2: I think it was also frankly a little bit of a.

502
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 2: It was kind of an emergency thing where it's like,

503
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: as I say, they were for whatever reason they were,

504
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: they'd gotten behind schedule, and yeah, they just needed somebody

505
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: to come in and knock out a couple of scripts quickly.

506
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 5: You're just in a big glass case. It did a

507
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 5: little hammer next to it in case of story break,

508
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 5: break glass anything like that.

509
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so it was.

510
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 2: It was. It was. It was a fine thing. It

511
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: was just it was. It was odd because usually you

512
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: do go to the taping and I would have looked

513
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: forward to it normally. I just can't remember why it

514
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: didn't work. I also had two young children at the time.

515
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that may have been part of the problem.

516
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 3: I have two young children now, and I don't remember

517
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 3: any aspect of any part of my day ever. So

518
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 3: I can tell you it's life is just.

519
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: One giant blur.

520
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 4: You know you're here and you're safe. I don't think.

521
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this is a dream.

522
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 6: You have you watched the episodes, and can you see

523
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 6: if any of your actual scripts survived?

524
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: I mean, I have not watched them. I'm sorry to say.

525
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: I did reread. I look, I even found it. I

526
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 2: found my old script for what a very topanga Christmas.

527
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 5: Original draft, original draft, original draft.

528
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: It's actual paper. Wow. I read it. I was like,

529
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 2: oh god, yeah, it was pretty funny. I connously. What

530
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: happens is you've write so many things over the years.

531
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: I can't remember what was mine and adjusted by the

532
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: staff or so.

533
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 3: Do you think that's the first Is that like a

534
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 3: table read version? Is that the first thing we read?

535
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 3: Or is that truly like the first version you wrote

536
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: entirely yourself?

537
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: Oh no, this is your this is a this is

538
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 2: what you guys read. This went through the went through

539
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: the staff. So I don't have my original. It's probably

540
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 2: written on a scriptware or something, one of those programs

541
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's a floppy disk, this big about

542
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: in my basement. But no, it's funny. I don't. I don't.

543
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: It's it's it's often difficult for me to remember which

544
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 2: are my jokes or what was I just I had

545
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 2: a weird experience them a few months ago. My daughter

546
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: was little, she was like eight when I was producing

547
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: Sister Sister, and so we had a Halloween episode, right,

548
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: and so we need a trigger treater. So you want, honey,

549
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: you want to come and be a tricker treater. Sure,

550
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 2: so she got to be a tricker treater and say

551
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 2: trick or treat and squirt Tmoor in the face with

552
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: silly string. Right, Okay, so she got a SAG card

553
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: for but she had gone on. She's not in the business.

554
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: She lives elsewhere, has a wonderful life, and I have

555
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 2: two grandchildren with her. So, but we were up there

556
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 2: a while ago and I somehow came up and her

557
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: husband didn't even know she'd been in this because she

558
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: never tells anybody, right, So, being being a typical millennial,

559
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: he said, okay, let's find it. So he found it

560
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: in like three seconds on Hulu or Amazon or something,

561
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: and we sat and watched it together, and it was

562
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: so interesting because I hadn't seen it in twenty plus years,

563
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: and it was actually pretty funny. But I was sort

564
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: of I kind of remember writing that joke, and oh, yeah,

565
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: I think it's funny. You do enough of them and

566
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: they kind of bore together.

567
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,959
Speaker 5: Is there one joke you've written that sticks in your

568
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 5: mind in any show you've done, like's the what's the

569
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 5: best joke you've ever reten?

570
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, now you're setting me up for total failure.

571
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: I cannot. I was having this conversation with somebody the

572
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: other day. I can't remember, Like most of the time,

573
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: I can't even remember the jokes, but I can remember

574
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: that I can tell you this. This is the first

575
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: joke I ever pitched in a room. Okay, I had

576
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: done freelance for three or four years forever got on staff.

577
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: And so the first shows on staff was Archie Bunker's place.

578
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 2: And in those days, Carol O'Connor had owned half the show.

579
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 2: Norman had nothing to do with it anymore, and so

580
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 2: Carol ran the room. So when you were sitting in

581
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 2: a writer's room, you guys, know what that's like, at

582
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 2: least you know what it's like. It's it's a it's

583
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: a very.

584
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,360
Speaker 1: High octane, yes, high pressure.

585
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: And instead of pitching to like a showrunner, like a

586
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: writer who's all usually kind of an egomaniac anyway, and this, guys,

587
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: you're pitching to Carol O'Connor. I mean, his chair was

588
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: already in the Smithsonian Institution. Yeah, so when you pitched

589
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: him was like pitching to Mount Rushmore. And so I

590
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: was very kind of shy anyway, it was very reticent,

591
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: but I knew after two three weeks, I'm gonna have

592
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: to say something to say, And so there was a

593
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: here's what, here's the joke. It's not a great joke.

594
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: I'm just saying because it's the one I remember. But

595
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 2: the situation was Archie had a he was always he

596
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: ran this bar and he was always getting sued or

597
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: being He's either suing somebody or being sued all the time.

598
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: So he had this fly by night attorney, local attorney

599
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: who is who is his who is his representative? And

600
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 2: so the guy was sick of dealing with him, so

601
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: he's going to fob him off onto a younger lawyer.

602
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: So the scene was Archie's coming in to complain about

603
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: something and the and the older attorney's gonna going to

604
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: tell him this young guy is going to now take

605
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: over for me. And so Archie comes in and he

606
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: goes to his normal seat and he almost sits on

607
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: the attorney because the guy's sitting in a chair. He

608
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,239
Speaker 2: almost sits on his play by Barry Gordon and uh.

609
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: And so the older attorney says, oh, uh, you know,

610
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: mister Bunker, don't you, And then the attorney just had

611
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: a line like yes, wow or something. So I kind

612
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: of go, you know, page six, whatever it is, I

613
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: think we can maybe better that. And the guy wrote

614
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: the script gives me a look like, kid, you better

615
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 2: have something, don't you say script unless you can better

616
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: my script? And so I said, well what if? What if?

617
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 2: He goes almost sits on him, and the attorney says,

618
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 2: you know, mister Bunker, don't you And the guy says, well,

619
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 2: not from that angle, it's worth that much of a juggle.

620
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is better than yes.

621
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: And I remember the look on Carol's face because I

622
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: was like, I'm terrified, and he like, yeah, okay, and

623
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 2: he turns to the writers, just nods and says, which

624
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: means put on the script. It's going on the script.

625
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: I was like, I can be quiet again.

626
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: Three years later, I pitched you that's great.

627
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 3: Wow.

628
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: I love that.

629
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 6: I would be so bad in a writer's room, like

630
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 6: there's nothing that terrifies me more like I love writing,

631
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 6: I love talking about writing, and I would enjoy being

632
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 6: in the room to just watch the process. But I

633
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 6: would never want to pitch a joke. Oh my god.

634
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: It was very it's a very tense thing. And I

635
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: ran writer's rooms to it. Not at that point of course,

636
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 2: but later in my career I was running the writer's room.

637
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: Of course, you're dealing with usually six eight, ten, twelve,

638
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: even really smart, really funny, and usually really screwed up people.

639
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: Your job is to try. It's like being an orchestra conductor.

640
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: You've got to figure out, Okay, that person needs to

641
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: be encouraged more of that person shut up more, and

642
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: you've got to try. And when you get it right,

643
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: it's a it's a magic because somebody will just say

644
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: one thing, and I'll put and it just spirals into

645
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: this amazing creation that nobody would.

646
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: Have come up with on their own.

647
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: But if somebody, if the person running the room is

648
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: mean spirited, and a lot of them are, it can

649
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: be really, really difficult. I was amazed I was able

650
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: to not only survive, but to thrive as well as

651
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 2: I did, because, as I say, when I came out

652
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: here was very shy.

653
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 4: All right, So year then, in all the years you've done,

654
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 4: all the rooms you've done.

655
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,239
Speaker 5: Not to put you on the spot again, but who

656
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 5: do you think is the uh, who's the best writer

657
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 5: you've ever worked with?

658
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: Oh? God, I've worked with so many wonderful writers. The

659
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: people I remember the most of the certainly the funniest writers,

660
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 2: the punch up guys. I worked with a guy named

661
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 2: Ray Jessel who's passed away. He was older when I

662
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: worked with him on Head of the Class, and he

663
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: was unbelievably funny. I mean he just but not funny,

664
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: just like Sticky. If there was a situation where you know,

665
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: we're two o'clock in the morning and we're trying to

666
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: get a joke to get out of scene three right,

667
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: and he could come up with it. It was astounding.

668
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: I worked with some great punch up guys. Jim Valley

669
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: was very good. Chris Thompson, Uh, it's it would be

670
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: very difficult for me to say one person was the first.

671
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: But and my mentor, Hal Dresner was a great writer.

672
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: I worked with just so many wonderful It was a joy.

673
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 2: It was absolute joy. I would say that to drive

674
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: home two o'clock in the morning after a punch up night,

675
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: you are I never took drugs in my life because

676
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: I didn't need to. It was just like I was

677
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: flying from the adrenaline rush of being in a room.

678
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: These are the funniest people on planet Earth. I mean,

679
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: the funniest people in the world come to Hollywood to

680
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: be funny for a living, and you get to be

681
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: in a room with them. It was a joy, and

682
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: there was you know there. Jeff Dutiel was a great writer.

683
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: Guy worked with now Steve Sullivan is a great writer.

684
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: A lot of it. But they all have different strengths

685
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: and some are better with story and others are better

686
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: with jokes.

687
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 6: But you mentioned your mentor, Howl Dresner. Yeah, how did

688
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 6: he become your mentor? What was that relationship?

689
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: I did early early after the Jeffersons. The next show

690
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: after the Jeffersons was a show called Husbands, Wives and Lovers,

691
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: which I'm convinced absolutely nobody ever watched. That lasted thirteen episodes.

692
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: Help was the executive producer on it, and it was

693
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: a very odd show in that it was an hour

694
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: long multi camera sitcom which nobody had ever tried. And

695
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: there's a reason why it doesn't work. It doesn't work,

696
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, even I'm sure when you guys are doing them,

697
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 2: there's a sort of a rhythm. Yeah, twenty two minute,

698
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: it just sort of feels like it's over, you know,

699
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: well this was forty four minutes.

700
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: It just just keeps going.

701
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 6: Ten as what are you doing?

702
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 2: Well? We had had there there was a story about

703
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 2: five couples, five different married couples, so you'd cut around

704
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: from from a couple to couple. It was it was

705
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: I didn't know at the time. I was too young

706
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: and stupid, but it was based on company, you know,

707
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: the Broadway music. But it just didn't work. But I

708
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: did two episodes that for Hal and he we never

709
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 2: really worked much together after that. We did a couple

710
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: of pilots, I think, but we just stayed friends because

711
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 2: I just it was like being in a room with

712
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: a He was the wittiest person I ever met in

713
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 2: my life. I did a pilot. I remember we sold

714
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 2: a pilot once. I think it was CBS, and we

715
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: went in and pitched it and the guy whoever it

716
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 2: was didn't particularly like it, and he was just he

717
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: was starting to think of a reason to reject it.

718
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: And Hal was so witty he just cut him to a.

719
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: He just was so smart and funny, and if you

720
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: dared to say something, you know, negative, he would find

721
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 2: a way to turn it back on. So the guy

722
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 2: just bought the pilot, I think, So how would not

723
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: make fun? It wasn't a very good idea, but I

724
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: think we sold the pilot just because Hell was so scary.

725
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: But I knew him to be a sweetheart. He died

726
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, but the wittiest person I

727
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: ever met. It was like amazing.

728
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: Your first episode of Boy Meets World that aired was

729
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 3: Fraternity Row, which was season five, episode four, where A

730
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 3: decides to start his own fraternity, Magnum Pie to get girls.

731
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: We have Paul Gleeson in that episode, as well as

732
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 3: some acid trip cameos from Love Boats, Ted Lange and

733
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 3: Bernie Kapell.

734
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: What do you remember from that episode?

735
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: I got, God, don you not a thing. I remember

736
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: almost nothing. I remember it was a sign to me.

737
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. I know nothing about fraternities. I

738
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 2: was never in a fraternity. I love it, like you

739
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: could not pick a worst person to write this draft.

740
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 2: But I remember giving up my all. But again, that

741
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: was the second one i'd done.

742
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: So okay, so you wrote a Christmas first.

743
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 2: So honestly, I have no I have almost no memory

744
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 2: other than working really hard to try to try to

745
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: make it work. But it was not my idea. It's

746
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 2: not an idea I ever would have pitched. I don't think.

747
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 4: So you can't remember.

748
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 5: You can't remember if if Ted Lange and Bernie Coppel

749
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 5: were part of the script originally, or it was just

750
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 5: who they could get. We're trying to figure out if

751
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 5: it was if that was part of the original pitch.

752
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 5: It was like, this is just who we can get,

753
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 5: so we're going to write them in.

754
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it was certainly not part of my original concept. No.

755
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: I think they just enjoyed casting these kind of fun

756
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: right stunt casting things. But no, I'm sorry. I have

757
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: no other than how do I write this damn thing?

758
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 2: How do I do this? I know nothing about fraternities?

759
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 3: So funny, Well, after Boy Meets World, you enter a

760
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 3: universe that many of our listeners and myself will be

761
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 3: very impressed with the world of animated kids TV. Yeah,

762
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 3: how do you make that transition?

763
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: Desperation? Don I was trying to keep my house the

764
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: you know the there was a weird thing that happens.

765
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: Happened then, is that my generation. I had reached a

766
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 2: certain age about my mid forties, which is a pretty

767
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: good run. I started my mid twenties. I had a

768
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: twenty year run in sitcoms, and it just there was

769
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: an iron gate just suddenly came down and nobody in

770
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: my generation could get hired anymore. And so, in fact,

771
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 2: there was a major class action lawsuit by that I

772
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: was part of, and we won an ageism lawsuit, and

773
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: we all got like, I don't know, dependent on your income,

774
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: but you know, you get people got fifty sixty grand,

775
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: which is a nice thing, but didn't change the business anyway.

776
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 2: I could. Most of my friends who are of my vintage,

777
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: who had been sitcom writers, just got out of the business.

778
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: They sold their houses, they took their pensions early, and

779
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: they moved someplace cheaper. But I didn't really want to

780
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: do that. I felt like I was still I love writing,

781
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: I love television. I love what I do. So I

782
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: an animation a friend. We had a friend who had

783
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: been sitcom writers and said, hey, you want We're doing

784
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: a cartoon show. You want to do a couple episodes? Well? Sure,

785
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: or why not? And it was some weird Swedish cartoon

786
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: called The World of Tosh. You've heard of it?

787
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 4: Sure? Oh, I've been doing I'm a voiceover actor. I

788
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 4: have been for twenty five years.

789
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: Oh so you know it? Okay, I do I Yeah?

790
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 4: To kick Animation is kind of My World.

791
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 2: Oh okay, you didn't do that show though, No.

792
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 4: I didn't do that show, but no, I've certainly heard

793
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 4: of it.

794
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So anyway, we wrote I think six episodes

795
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: or something, and it was the money is lousy, but

796
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 2: it's better than nothing. And so that's how that was

797
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: our entree and from there we just kept expanding and

798
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 2: an animation, unlike in live action, most of it has

799
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: done freelance, so you can make a living. I wrote

800
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: for Swedish shows and Korean shows and Italian shows and

801
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 2: French shows and then American shows as well, and so

802
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: if because I had all that experience as a sitcom

803
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 2: writer where you have to knock things out. I mean,

804
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: you know, you guys know it's likely you do a

805
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 2: Monday morning read through with the script stinks. Hell yeah,

806
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: the writers are back in that room until they are right,

807
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 2: and you have to do it fast. Because I had

808
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 2: all that experience, I could knock out cartoon scripts really fast.

809
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: And so you have to indore to make a living.

810
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 2: And so I worked with Steve Sullivan and a lot

811
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: of them some have been done solo. But yeah, it

812
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,959
Speaker 2: was like the second career and I miss the camaraderie

813
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: of being on a set, you know, with actors and

814
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 2: the director. That's so much fun. But it certainly is

815
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: less stressful. And so I was able to build a

816
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: second career doing animation.

817
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: Well, I want to talk more about that, and I'm

818
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 3: going to name some of the shows you've worked on,

819
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 3: but I want to go back briefly to this lawsuit.

820
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 3: Who did you sue and how did that come together?

821
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 3: I'm so curious about that.

822
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 2: But it was because suddenly everybody who hit their early

823
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: forties suddenly who'd been working for years couldn't get it hired.

824
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 2: And you know, you know, writers who were sitting on

825
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 2: grousing to each other all the time. Anyway, wait a minute,

826
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 2: why are we taking this? That's obviously agism. And so somebody,

827
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly who started this, went to an

828
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 2: attorney and started a class action lawsuit against all the

829
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: major studios, networks and agencies three together, and everybody at

830
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: first thought and I came in, like the second wave

831
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 2: of writers who came in and joined it, and then

832
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: there were more followed me. But and all you had

833
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: to do is, you know, here's my information. You have.

834
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: I give you the right for you to look at

835
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: my writer's guild incomes and so on, and so you

836
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 2: can see I'm making this much money and then all

837
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I'm making that much money. So uh.

838
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 2: And it was the same as two of everybody. So

839
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 2: they took it in front of a judge and the

840
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: judge said, looked at that information, at the data, and said,

841
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: to the to the to the defendants, to the to

842
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: the studios and networks, you guys better settle because that's

843
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: all I need to see. Wow, everybody in Hollywood didn't

844
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 2: suddenly get untalented when they reached forty five, so lose.

845
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: And so they quickly settled the case. And as I said,

846
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 2: it was a nice little it was a nice little bonus.

847
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: My wife is a writer too, and she she got

848
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: a check and I got a check, and it was nice.

849
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: But it doesn't you know. Yeah, it's not a career, right.

850
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: That's what animation allowed me to allow me to keep

851
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: my house.

852
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 3: Yes, well, the list of kids shows you've written and

853
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 3: produced is so vast you have been nominated for multiple

854
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 3: Emmys for it.

855
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: But here is just a small taste.

856
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: Sheriff Calli's Wild West, Tons of Fancy Nancy which you

857
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 3: also wrote a song.

858
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 2: For Oh more than One? Yes?

859
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 3: Really?

860
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah?

861
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 3: Okay, Well I think one of the songs you wrote

862
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 3: for was nominated for an Emmy, though, which is why

863
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 3: I'm familiar with that one, Unbelievable, super Normal Whitch and

864
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 3: my personal favorite, Paw Patrol. How I mean, how did

865
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 3: you so you just all freelance? You just got so

866
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 3: once you started writing for one? Did it seem like

867
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 3: you just were up for a while.

868
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: Well, people hire you. If they like your work, then

869
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 2: they hire you or they commend you, and that's kind

870
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 2: of how it usually works. It wasn't all freelance. What

871
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 2: happened was it was mostly freelanced up until gosh, about

872
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 2: ten years ago. And then he got a call from

873
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: a producer friend who was doing Sir Calli's Wild West,

874
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: which is a Disney show, and said, hey, you want

875
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: to be on staff? What? As far as I knew,

876
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 2: there were no staff on animation shows, but Disney does

877
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: have staff. Yeah, they most of their shows have like

878
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 2: a four person staff. And so then I wound up

879
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: on staff there and also on Chicken Squad and Fancy Nancy,

880
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: which was a joyous experience. And then I just finished doing.

881
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: I was the head writer for a show that's not

882
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: in the air yet but it will be in January

883
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 2: I think called Robo Gobo for Disney Fun. So yeah,

884
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 2: so I did. The last ten years have been mostly

885
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 2: as a staff writer and headwriter.

886
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 6: Sometimes is that which do you prefer? Do you prefer

887
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 6: sitcom or animated? At this point, like, if you look back,

888
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 6: what are the differences really as a writer in which

889
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 6: do you?

890
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? The difference is it's so much more stressful being

891
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: on a live action sitcom. I mean it's for I

892
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: don't know what it's like for the I do sort of,

893
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 2: but not as well as you guys do. But to

894
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: be an actor, I'm sure it has its stresses, but

895
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 2: to to writers, trying to keep ahead of the of

896
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: the schedule is just brutal. And the fact that you know,

897
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 2: you go to the table Monday morning, as I say,

898
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: if that script doesn't work, it's gonna work by Friday,

899
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: or you're gonna be looking for it work. You're looking

900
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 2: for a job. So so you really have to buckle

901
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 2: down and you week after week after week. It's very stressful.

902
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: But the upside is it's like doing an opening night

903
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: every Friday, night Thursday. But it was like, oh, that's

904
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: kind of cool. You know, it was called It's great fun.

905
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 2: It's just I think it's more of a young person's game.

906
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: And I think if somebody said to me right now, oh,

907
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 2: we'd like you to run a sitcom, I would my

908
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 2: wife would say yes, and I would say I can't

909
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 2: do it. I don't have the energy to do that anymore.

910
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 2: But an animation is is is more of a writer's

911
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: medium in a weird way, because the voice cast. I

912
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 2: rarely even meet the voice cast, and so you're you're

913
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: just dealing with just it's just you and the and

914
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 2: the episode director or the episode storyboard artists, and you're

915
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: kind of together deciding everything. You know, where's the metaphorical

916
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 2: camera going to be, with the color of the walls, everything,

917
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: and so it's it's much much more control over the

918
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 2: finished product. On the other hand, most of what I did,

919
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 2: not all of it, but most of this preschool stuff,

920
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: which I found very stifling after a while. I worked

921
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: very hard to try to make them something that an

922
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 2: adult could stand to sit in the room and write

923
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: and watch.

924
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 4: But it was But that's that's hugely difficult to write.

925
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 5: I mean, a preschool show where you're I mean, that's

926
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 5: could be one of the most difficult things to write

927
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 5: in all of Hollywood is keeping preschoolers entertain.

928
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 2: My god, oh my god, you're you're right, And and

929
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: people like I would talk to like writers who I

930
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 2: knew from live action adult days, and they would say, oh,

931
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: I would I need some money, I'll do that, said

932
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: you you think you would really sit down and try

933
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: and write a speck, and you'll see I'll start telling

934
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: you all the things you can't do. You can't do

935
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: that joke, you can't use that reference, you can't, right,

936
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: It's very, very difficult.

937
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 5: Well, so I did a little I did a little

938
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 5: bit of animation writing. And the thing that amazed me

939
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 5: was the first job I got was I was under

940
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 5: the impression, well, it's animation.

941
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 4: If I can think it, they can do it. And

942
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 4: that's just not the case at all. It's it's amazing

943
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 4: if you can think of Pixar can do it, right, Yeah, right, exactly.

944
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: Not on the but if you go see a Pixar movie,

945
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: as we all do, one shot in a Pixar movie

946
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: costs the same amount about as what my entire episode

947
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 2: would be on a typical eleven minutes. I mean, we

948
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 2: don't have anywhere near their kind of luxury of No.

949
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 4: I mean, so same kind of thing.

950
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 5: They're like, no, we need to reuse storyboards from older

951
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 5: and we need to use backgrounds of older thing. It's like, oh, okay,

952
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 5: so I can't just write whatever I want and you

953
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 5: go draw it Like, Nope, that's not how it works. No.

954
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, he picks up a he picks

955
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 2: up a book and they haven't already created especially if

956
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 2: it's three three D you know, CGI animation, they have

957
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: guy has to build build that literally in the computer.

958
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 2: If they haven't already done it. That means some schmuck's

959
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 2: got to go sit in front of his cynique and

960
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 2: law a book and yeah, in the computer, just for

961
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: that one thing. And you better make sure that you

962
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 2: really want the.

963
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 4: Book, that it's worth it.

964
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

965
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the things that is most

966
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 3: impressive about your career is your ability to move from

967
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 3: elite late night sitcoms, then into kids and family sitcoms,

968
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 3: and then into preschool and animated. I mean basically, as

969
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 3: you got older, the people you were writing for gott younger.

970
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so did you ever consciously notice those transitions.

971
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: Or yeah wow, oh yeah. Well luckily, you know, I

972
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: had two kids, so I knew from them what they

973
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,959
Speaker 2: responded to. And then now, uh, well, my oldest grand

974
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: son is six, and I have a six year old,

975
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: a three year old, a two year old, and a

976
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 2: four month old. So between all of them, I'm pretty

977
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: cute into what preschool I watched them. I love I

978
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 2: love to watch them watch yeah, because I learned so much.

979
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,479
Speaker 2: They just they don't do it the same way. Yeah,

980
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: they respond to things, and I have arguments all the

981
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 2: time with Disney about it. Of course I lose, but

982
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: that they that they that they respond My little two

983
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 2: year old just loves Frozen, you know, and she loves

984
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: a pig, but they seize on something when you can't

985
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: quite figure out why is she like that? But not this.

986
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: It's very weird. And my six year old, when he

987
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 2: was like three or four, his favorite show on Disney

988
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: Plus was Hamilton Hamilton over. You don't know who Hamilton is,

989
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 2: what the United States of Americas, But they just respond

990
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 2: to certain things and you try to figure out what

991
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: is it about that he loved watching that King George

992
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: come out with you know, with a red yes. Yeah,

993
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 2: the patter song. I loved it.

994
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, so funny.

995
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 3: So for someone listening now who wants to be a writer,

996
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 3: and here's all the different mediums you've worked in, what

997
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 3: advice do you give?

998
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: And because I think you you teach, do you do?

999
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 2: I taught for many years at UCLA and also at

1000
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: Pepperdine screen and television writing. And I have a YouTube

1001
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: channel now called the Go Draft.

1002
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 6: Which your videos are great, man, I was watching some

1003
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 6: of them. They're really really good.

1004
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, thank you.

1005
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 6: Really insightful stuff. And it's like short enough that you

1006
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 6: can you pack a lot in there.

1007
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 2: It's really I tried to. It's but it's all practical.

1008
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 2: It's all it's not that theory. It's technique. It's about

1009
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: this is how I do it, and I'm still doing

1010
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: it and have done it for forty five years. So

1011
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: you can choose to follow that path or not. But

1012
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 2: it's I think it's all practical and useful. Yeah, so yeah,

1013
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: I Oh, the advice I would give it. The business

1014
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: at this particular moment, when we're doing this segment, is

1015
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 2: in a state, as you all know, of tremendous flucks.

1016
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 2: Especially television, and up until a year or two ago,

1017
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 2: if somebody had a screenplay, they're representatives saying, is there

1018
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 2: any way you can turn it into a limited series?

1019
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 2: And now it's exactly the opposite. Somebody writes a limited

1020
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: series pilot and they say, is there any way you

1021
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: can turn into a screenplay because they can't get they

1022
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: can't get anybody to green light limited series anymore, and

1023
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: so it's in a state of flux because they don't

1024
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 2: know the people in charge, the people writing the checks,

1025
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: aren't sure how they're going to make money on things anymore.

1026
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: Streaming has just turned the world upside down. We do

1027
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: know that there's always a market for entertainment, probably now

1028
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 2: more than any time, so that it will it will

1029
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 2: find its balance. But the young clients I have who

1030
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:08,760
Speaker 2: are students or just friends who've had success, have almost

1031
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 2: all had success and features. They've broken into the feature

1032
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: business quicker than they not like I'm talking at Marvel movies,

1033
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: but I'm like little indie teachers, some of which do

1034
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: very well, and get them a career and get them

1035
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 2: started much easier now at this moment than trying to

1036
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 2: break into television. It is very tough to break into

1037
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 2: television at this moment, because television just doesn't know what

1038
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: it is anymore. Yeah, but I will say this, and

1039
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 2: this is absolutely true. Over the years of been doing

1040
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: this and teaching, I have never ever met anybody who

1041
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 2: had talent and perseverance who didn't eventually have some level

1042
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: of success. Might not have been what they dreamt of.

1043
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 2: They may not have become the next Steven Spielberg. That's

1044
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: what I want to do. I'm not the next Steven Spielberg,

1045
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 2: but I had some success. But if you hang in

1046
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: there long enough and if you have talent, so somebody

1047
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 2: will find it. That's the one nice thing you say

1048
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: about Hollywood is it really is to a large degree

1049
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: of meritocracy and people who can do it. And that's

1050
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 2: what I used a lot about television because in movies

1051
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: you can kind of get by if you're not kind

1052
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 2: of hide behind, hide under the radar screen. But in television,

1053
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 2: if you can't produce, they find out really quickly and

1054
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 2: you're out and somebody else is brought in you can

1055
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 2: do it, and so it is kind of a meritocracy.

1056
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 2: So there's that to take heart in.

1057
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: Well, that's good advice.

1058
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 3: And finally, as a bit of a TV historian, did

1059
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 3: you ever think people would still be talking about Boy

1060
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 3: Meets World thirty years later?

1061
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 2: No, I do, I did not, and I'm delighted that

1062
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: you are. I mean, I think it's wonderful that people

1063
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 2: are still watching it and still excited by it. I

1064
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 2: think it's so interesting, fascinating that kids, I mean, you

1065
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: guys must know that. You know that the people watching

1066
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: the episodes are probably roughly the same age as the

1067
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: audience who watched it originally, and they still respond to

1068
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 2: the same stuff, and even though the references have changed

1069
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 2: and change and all the rest of it. It's fascinating

1070
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: to me. They will sit and watch I've seen them

1071
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 2: watch Sister Sister episodes and say to the Bell episodes,

1072
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: and they like them just as much. It's very very interesting.

1073
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: And also there's something about multi camera sitcoms. I can't

1074
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 2: figure it out that there's a sense of because I

1075
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 2: guess of the fourth wall. The audience feels like they're

1076
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: part of it, part of it. It felt like they

1077
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 2: were in Corey's living room, and.

1078
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 4: It's comfortable.

1079
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 2: It is it is, and people will watch them and

1080
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 2: rewatch them and watch them twenty times and they know

1081
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,720
Speaker 2: all the jokes by heart. It doesn't seem to matter anyway.

1082
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 2: I think it's lovely and it makes me feel good

1083
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: to know that it wasn't. We weren't producing stuff that

1084
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 2: just went into avoid Some of it did go into

1085
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 2: avoid lovers.

1086
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 4: Literally the guessing the actors on the show didn't remember

1087
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 4: they were on the show.

1088
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 2: I don't think they're doing a podcast.

1089
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 3: Andy, Thank you so much for spending your time with us.

1090
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 3: Thank you for letting us hunt you down home phone

1091
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 3: and all. Never get rid of it. It brings surprises

1092
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 3: around the corner.

1093
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 1: We so appreciate you.

1094
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 3: And thank you for solving the mystery for us of

1095
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 3: why we were like, how come we don't remember him?

1096
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: Thank you for solving the mystery.

1097
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not terribly memorable, but I'm better than that.

1098
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 3: We knew it must be something, so you did. You

1099
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 3: solved that memory. You saw that mystery for us, and

1100
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 3: we appreciate you and thank you. Tell everyone again where

1101
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 3: they can find you on your YouTube channel.

1102
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 2: It's the go draft. The go draft, which is a

1103
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 2: term that used to mean maybe they still say it

1104
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 2: meant the person who wrote the draft that got the

1105
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,439
Speaker 2: green light, that was the go draft, and so that's cool,

1106
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 2: is trying to get people from the level of being

1107
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 2: promising to actually getting your work produced.

1108
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 1: Well, I love that.

1109
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being here with us, and yeah,

1110
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 3: we wish you nice. Thanks for your contribution to a

1111
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 3: show we know and love and our audience knows and love,

1112
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 3: and so yeah, thank you for being with us. We

1113
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: wish you many more years of success and health and

1114
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 3: and love and enjoy your grandchildren.

1115
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Bye bye.

1116
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 1: Okay, so we don't have to feel bad. So bad

1117
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: we did know whit. We never even possibly came to set.

1118
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 4: It's so strange. It's so strange that you write these

1119
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 4: two episodes are not there. You don't get to just.

1120
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 6: Can't believe that our staff was that far beyond like,

1121
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 6: because it seems like we had a big staff, especially

1122
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 6: by season five, that they would have been, you know,

1123
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 6: been able to account. But I guess not like I

1124
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 6: mean get outside.

1125
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: Yeah it is.

1126
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 3: I do think you know writer, you mostly right features

1127
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 3: Will You've written a couple episodes of TV. I think

1128
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 3: the pace at which they have to come up with

1129
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 3: this stuff, it's just something we can't possibly understand because

1130
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 3: we've never been in it. For a long term, because

1131
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 3: I see it now on shows I direct, where I'll

1132
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 3: talk to people and I'll be like, so, how's it going,

1133
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 3: And everyone will look so tired, you're just underwater, and

1134
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:21,800
Speaker 3: they're just like, we are here so late, and and

1135
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 3: we're writing the episode we're doing next week, and and

1136
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 3: it's just it's so high pressure and so well it

1137
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:29,439
Speaker 3: never ends.

1138
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 6: Never.

1139
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 4: I mean I mean literally never. Just the show just stops.

1140
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 4: That's or you die. That's it. Otherwise you're writing the

1141
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 4: whole time.

1142
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 5: It's the episode you're doing, it's next week's episodes, rewriting now,

1143
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 5: last episode.

1144
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 4: It just never stopped.

1145
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,240
Speaker 3: I go crazy, so crazy, Well it makes sense anyway.

1146
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 3: Thank you all for joining us for this episode of

1147
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 3: Pod Meets World. As always, you can follow us on

1148
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 3: Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your

1149
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 3: emails pod meets World Show at gmail dot com.

1150
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: And we have merch.

1151
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 4: Merch that to me, not membing. Oh the merch, got it.

1152
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 5: You never met the merch, don't worry, Yeah exactly, I

1153
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 5: never met the merch, so I thought, like I thought.

1154
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: We were merch.

1155
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 3: You can find our merch at Podmeets worldshow dot com.

1156
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 3: Will send us out.

1157
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 4: We Love You All, pod dismissed.

1158
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 5: Podmets World is nheart podcast producer and hosted by Danielle Fischel,

1159
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 5: Wilfredell and Ryder Strong executive producers, Jensen Carp and Amy

1160
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 5: Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor,

1161
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 5: Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddie Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World

1162
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 5: super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle

1163
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 5: Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us on Instagram

1164
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 5: at Podmeats World Show or email us at Podmeats Worldshow

1165
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 5: at gmail dot com