WEBVTT - #582 - Morgan Evans on Public Divorce, Ayahuasca Experience & Healing 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:11.800 It's annoying, I'll say it. Thanks, No, it is. You're 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:13.399 a little taller than you should be, you're a little 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.520 more muscular than you should be, and you're just strikingly 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.800 good looking. Sometimes it pisses me off. Thank you and 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.280 good night. Yes, I know, I know. 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:23.960 Hey. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.520 Today on the Bobbycast, Morgan Evans is here. You've seen 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.800 the headlines, I've heard the song. Should probably watch everything 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.000 unfold in real time. But today, for the first time, 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.239 Morgan's actually going to talk about his side of the 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.919 last few years, from a very public divorce to disappearing 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.680 back home to Australia in therapy and rebuilding his life 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.960 and making what might be his most personal record ever. 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.200 I think it is. Now he's back with the brand 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.240 new album Steell Talent out March twentieth, a new tour, 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.960 and yes, a new love. Here he is unfiltered, honest 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.240 and ready to talk. It is Morgan Evans. I feel 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:00.720 like sometimes I want to text you, but then I 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:02.520 look and see what time it is where you are 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:03.760 at the time, and then it's like two in the 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:05.720 morning because you're off in another country, and I don't 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:07.880 text you. That's just my confession to you. 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:09.720 As a friend, you should always text me. 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:11.880 I don't like people texting me at one or two am, 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:13.839 even though I have to do not disturb. Yeah, because 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.120 I do wake up at night and check my phone sometimes, 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.040 which is a bad habit. But I never did quite 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:20.600 know where you are. And then you just you left 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:21.080 for a while. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.039 Yeah. Well I've been in Australia since Christmas. 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.080 No, but you like left it felt like for years. 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.120 Oh like left coming in to see you at the radio, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:31.119 sess that kind of thing you. 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:34.160 Mad, Yeah, I just just you were just gone, yeah 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:34.760 for a while. 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:35.480 Yeah. 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.319 Did you move move away from Nashville? 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.039 No? No, we were on the road pretty much flat out. 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:41.080 Like I remember. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:42.679 I think at the end of twenty two, I was like, 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.840 I want to be so busy next year that I 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.320 don't have time to think about my own life. And 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:48.920 it turns out that people I was working with a 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:49.840 really good at the jobs. 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:51.160 So we just went hot. 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.040 Ade you busy, You just went hot. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:55.120 And then I think at the end of that run, 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:58.200 I think it was just important to kind of take 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:03.680 some time to take stuck of life and actually just sort. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.800 Of take time creatively to make a record. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.240 I think after the first album that I put out here, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.480 it was just like on the run and everything was 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.840 kind of made in between, and I actually didn't put 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.120 out an album from twenty eighteen to like right now, 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.920 And so I wanted this next thing to be a 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:24.400 body of work that I was proud of and I 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:26.000 love so much that I wanted to share with the 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.320 world and come back and do all this kind of thing, 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:29.560 you know. 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.280 Okay, I just want to get to that iahwa Ska thing. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:35.000 Can I do that? Yeah? Can I go right to it? 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:36.320 I'm just so curious. There you go. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:38.200 Is that in the press release or something? No? Did 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:38.920 we talk about it? 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.000 No? Oh, I just know about it. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:42.440 Oh, okay from Brett. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.120 It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter how I know. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:46.400 I talked about it a bit. 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:52.000 Yeah. Yeah, I'm so curious because I would love to 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:55.000 do drugs. You know that's not considered like a regular drug. 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:56.800 I just want to do any drug. I just okay, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:58.800 I just want to like feel free somehow, Like the 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.880 closest I gets laughing gas And I had this tooth dentist. Yeah, 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:04.200 I have this tooth replaced. Dude, that's a freaking heaven. 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:04.760 Yeah. 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:06.239 Like, sometimes I feel like I want to break my 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:07.760 teeth so I can go and get laughing gas. 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:09.480 Yeah, I see, I've never had that. I've never done 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:09.919 that before. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.399 Okay, but did you do did you do Ayahuascar? 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:14.800 I did? Yeah? 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.400 And do you say do is that the language? Do 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:18.399 you do Ayahuascar? 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:19.760 I think so? 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.760 Yeah, definitely, it's a it's like a comes in a 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.200 liquid form. Nothing talk to me like I'm five, Well, 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.679 I went to this place in Costa Rica and it's 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.800 a I feel like there's probably more like informed people to. 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:34.960 Talk about exactly what it is. 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.200 But basically, it's a it's a liquid that's made from 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.480 the combination of a couple of plants, and the active 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.000 ingredient is d M T have you heard have you 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:48.040 heard about that? And so the other ingredient in there 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.080 that sort of makes it kind of like a slow release. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.360 And I'm sure people in the comments will correct me here. Effectively, 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.720 that's kind of the the you know, technical description. But 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.320 then yeah, you go along to these ceremonies. It's this 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:01.920 sort of place that's made for it, like a retreat 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:07.480 center or something, and yeah, every evening you go to 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.160 this big building and the ceremony is held by a 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.000 different sort of shaman or woman. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:14.760 I don't know if that's the term even, but. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.400 Yeah, you should have go up and you you take 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.400 a shot of this liquid, you drink it, yeah, and 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.040 then you go and lie down and. 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.880 See what happens. That's crazy. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:33.359 Yeah. I have friends that have used ketamine, okay for 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:34.880 a lot of the reasons that I think I should 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:36.880 use ketamine, and I I want to do a ketemine 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.119 ayahuasca like smoothie. I don't know if that's that probably 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.279 kill me, but I'm just always afraid when I get 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.040 on something somebody is going to take a picture of 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.000 my wiener. That is my that's my fear, Like, how 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:52.000 do you seriously like it's like or it's like when 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:54.120 I had to go get my head ankle surgery, I 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.200 was like, I'm going under, but I told my doctor 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.480 I am petrified someone to take take a picture of 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.440 my wiener. It's not even a weird wiener. I just 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.760 think I'm that it's fitting that it's just so vulnerable. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:06.520 It is very vulnerable. 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.960 Yes, and I'm such a control freak, but I think 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.560 that's why I've always said, and this is me not joking, 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.600 I would love to do drugs or some sort of 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.599 drug to get me to do. In the best way 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.880 that I can explain it is this because I can't 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:27.000 do that. My life. I've not been able to really 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:34.279 master breathing deep and not being so tightly wound, okay, 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.440 because of a lot of stuff get trauma, adult anxiety. 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.960 So whenever it was like, man, I knew you had 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:43.880 tried iyahuasca, I was like, I needn't know, Like what 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.000 that felt like? How vulnerable that felt? 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.640 Well, very vulnerable. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.039 I will say, the way that you just described what 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:56.800 you're looking for, I would say, it's probably not. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:57.360 The best for that. 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:58.560 It's not the best for that. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.200 No, because you do it in a group. There's quite 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.000 a few people there, at least when I was doing it. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:07.040 Everyone has different experiences, but there was people I feel 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.719 like I've done you know, I've spent a decent amount 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.520 of time meditating you know part of this, Like the 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.280 last few years, I would like try to learn how 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.279 to do that. I went to this retreat for a 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.200 weekend to do that as well, and I tried just 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:19.800 about everything. We can get into it if you want, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:23.920 but I did. There was one lady at this Yahuascar 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.800 retreat that was very tightly wound to the point where 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:29.160 she was kind of like, this is the fifth time 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.839 I've done it. Nothing's working. Nothing's working. And it is 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.920 definitely one of those things that will work to a degree. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.560 But I think if you want to actually have a 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.200 you know, positive or transformative experience, you need to be 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.479 able to get into a state of. 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:48.159 What will be will be. 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.120 And I found the time that i'd spent meditating really 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.800 helpful in that way because it was when I was 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:58.840 sort of getting into that state that the actual you know, 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.080 the medicine or the drug or whatever would actually take 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.239 effect and be helpful. 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.200 Drug maybe the wrong thing to call it. And if 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.760 that's offensive to the Hyahuaska community. 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:09.640 Yeah, I want to be I want to be not 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:10.760 offensively that it was. 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.440 Yeah. Yeah, Well then what's the goal when you go 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.960 to a place like that if it's not to just relax? 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:21.640 Yeah, I think just. 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.240 Generally speaking, why would you go to Ayahaska? 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.600 Well, so one of one of the reasons I went 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.760 to this particular place is they they do a lot 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:32.120 of like throughout the days, you can go to these 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.920 kind of talks or lectures, and so they'll have like 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.920 a neurosciences there and they'll explain the benefits of it 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.080 and what's actually happening, or they'll have a therapist there 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:43.320 and they'll talk about, well, hey. 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:44.000 What's your experience. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.040 If you have this experience, maybe like allow this to 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.800 happen or just go with this, or you know, do. 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.520 You see things? Are you and I'm not joking, but 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.600 are you like talking to things in your mind? 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.120 I think everybody's experience is different, and it's a very 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.280 hard thing to explain, and and it's not something i'd 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:06.320 recommend to anybody. I think it's definitely like a last 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.040 resort moment. And the moment that I went down there, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:10.920 I was in a point in my life where I 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:15.000 was just like overwhelmed and confused, and it's like everything 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:16.360 I thought was real. 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.760 Was like not real, and it was just I was 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.880 kind of down to find out anything. And I think 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:23.880 at the end. 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.360 Of it, people are there like for a search for 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:30.800 meaning or purpose or to make sense of something. A 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:32.600 lot of the conversations I were having with the people 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.920 down there were around, you know, past traumas that they 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.800 could go you know, and make sense of. And I 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:40.400 think the best way I could describe, at least what 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:48.439 happened to me during that was through kind of visual 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:54.960 and like physical experiences. You were told this story or 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:58.200 you have this experience of reliving things that have happened 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:02.000 from different perspectives, almost like an out of body thing 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:04.719 that you get to witness happen and you can kind 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:09.600 of just take your person out of it, look at 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.160 it objectively, and instead of being like, oh my god, 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.160 that hurts so much, or oh my god, like I'm 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.480 broken because of this, it's just like, oh no, that's 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:21.240 what happened, and that's why, and now you're here and 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.000 it's good that you know those things now and you're 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:25.480 moving on. 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:26.839 You took something from it. 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.439 I think the way that I said it just then 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:32.920 sounds really simple, but I think at the end of 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:38.679 the day that is like turning pain into wisdom and 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:40.840 then getting on with it. 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.080 And at the end of that week everything felt lighter. 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.800 For sure. It's been really helpful, and I have no 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:47.920 desire to go do it again. 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.640 Really, it was just a which is another thing I 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:53.200 think is great about it. You know, I think it's 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:57.080 still like unfolds and I kind of go back to 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:58.560 the notes. So I would go home each night and 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.560 like write down my experience, you know, and it's been 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:07.640 a really good reset or like kind of I don't know, 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:09.679 life navigation tool or something like that. 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.160 Yeah, I've really thought about doing the ketamine here. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:15.840 The ketamine is a kind of you go into a 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:17.160 doctor and they like give you. 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:22.200 From my knowledge of it, because I have friends that 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.560 have done it. Again, you need to be at a 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.640 place where it's it's an option to hopefully get you 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.000 to a healthier place. So it's not like I don't 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:32.280 know what it's like to do crack, but it's not 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.640 like doing crack. I don't know it's like to do crack, 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:35.839 So I don't even know what it's not like. I 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.400 don't know what, but it's not it's like a recreational thing. 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:40.880 I guess is what I should We should get someone 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.120 else into that one. I did have a show idea 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.920 that I I can't do it because I just wouldn't 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:47.840 do it, but I thought it would be the greatest 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:49.760 TV show for me to do. A show called Bobby 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:51.719 Does Drugs, and it was me trying drugs for the 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.440 first time, every drug because I've tried nothing ever. I'm 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.760 not even drinking alcohol. So I like every episode of 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.600 like me drinking alcohol, me smoking weed. Let's try cocaine. 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.200 Episode three, number four, we're doing crack and then just 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.640 to watch and see what it does to me. Tell me, 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:06.800 that wouldn't be I can't do it. I'll die. But 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.400 wouldn't that be like a really interesting show? 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.000 If you ever do this show, please let me do 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:11.439 it with you. 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.400 You wouldn't want to do it with me. You wouldn't 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.560 let me do it. You would honestly, it's a funny idea. 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.400 You you would pull me aside and go, don't do 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.640 this show. As a friend, you would go, don't do it. 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:24.079 But isn't that not a great concept? I love it? Yeah? 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:31.040 Bus Yes episode six, uh funnels cracked through his butt? 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:35.880 Yeah well yeah, then we get harder jackass doing drugs. 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:36.200 Yeah. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.960 Well, my friends that do have that have tried ketamine 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.360 have done it for actual therapeutic reasons. 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:41.800 Yeah. 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:46.840 They would go to their psychiatrist. Their doctor would recommend 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.839 they would go. I have two very close friends that 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.280 have done it to a house. They like, take an 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.079 uber to this house. I don't even drive. They are 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.480 in a room. I don't know how the ketamine is done. 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.480 If it's maybe yeah, lost los ange, I think is 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:06.640 what it is. And the experience that they say is 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:11.839 so macrom that they are able to see a little, 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.040 like you said, themselves so much bigger than they are. 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.240 But they're also going to places that are happy and sad, 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:17.920 and they can look in the mirror and still tell 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:21.320 it's like real life, like not Alice in Wonderland type stuff. 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:23.440 But at the same time, they're able to have these crazy, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.760 crazy therapeutic trips, like I think that would be so great. 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:28.240 I'm just such a control freak. 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.960 Yeah, that's a I would say that that. 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:37.600 Element of yourself that you're describing may impede experiences with 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.320 psychedelic drugs or I don't know anything about ketamine, so 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:46.000 maybe that too, maybe ketamine, because it's it's actually like drugs, drugs. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.719 Right, I'm we're gonna say again to the cameras, we 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.400 don't know what we're clinically, we don't know what we're 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:56.000 talking about. So allow us to have this conversation without 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.520 being in the comments or anywhere saying we know, we 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.440 don't know we're talking about. I don't I don't know. 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.200 Yeah, okay, well yeah, I'm not quick to speak on that, 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:04.800 but I will say of all the people that I 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.439 met at this retreat, I went by myself, which I 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:08.959 all also I think is important. 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.080 Yeah, flew down, stayed by yourself, the whole thing. 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.959 Yeah. Yeah. It was like it was the end of 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:15.559 the road thing. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.960 Man. It was like like I needed something, like I 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.440 was desperately just looking for something to just like find 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:27.000 some grounding. And I met all kinds of people there, 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.199 like the lady that I mentioned who was like, why 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:29.920 is in this working? 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:30.760 Why is in this working? 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.439 And then her actually her partner was a surgeon, and 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:35.920 he was kind of, you. 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.880 Know, she's dragged me down here, We'll see what happens. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.360 And then a couple of days later he was like, wow, 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.440 this is like a really kind of amazing transformative experience 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.120 to people like me that had you know, really really 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:49.880 great experiences. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:51.079 And then there was people that are like this is 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.560 my sixth time I come every year or what you know. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:55.680 So there's all kinds of people that do it, and 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:58.400 they're all looking for different things. But I think I 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.560 essentially from my experience, it was a really positive one. 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.920 But again, like I would never I didn't come back 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.800 going like hey man, everyone should go do this, like 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:12.480 it's a very intense, not an enjoyable experience, but the 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:13.560 outcome is enjoyable. 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:14.000 Really. 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.280 I did an intensive once, a five day intensive where 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:18.800 I was I felt like I was at the end 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.520 of my rope, where I think it had just been 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.080 so many holidays in a row that I didn't have. 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.560 I don't have family, really, and so all my friends 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.720 then go to their families and I dedicated all my 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.760 life to work, and that only goes so far. You 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.360 reach a point eventually where you're like, what am I 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.000 even doing if I can't have anyone to do it with? 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:38.360 Right? 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.880 And so I went to place for five maybe six 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.440 days they take your phone. I was staying in a cabin. 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.360 There was no electricity in the cabin. There wasn't like 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:52.560 the food hall, and much like you're saying, it sucked 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.360 until it was over, and you're like, I just gained 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.240 so much from that because I would be in therapy, 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.720 a therapy part of it eight hours a day. Wow, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.560 so be four hours of break four hours one on 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.120 one intense therapy where I don't I'm not a crier, 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.080 and it's not because I'm not. It's not because I'm 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:15.600 scared of like lack of masculinity. It's because I'm scared 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.480 of vulnerability, weakness, right, I think that's why I don't cry, 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.520 because I've always been I can't show people I'm weak 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.320 because I'm weak, I'm a loser, and I can't. And 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:25.840 I went to that. It just reminds me of what 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.040 you're saying. It was very difficult. It was not fun, 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.680 but it was really I remember driving home going I 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.800 think it just gained more in that than I've gained 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.880 in the last fifteen years of because I was at 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.680 the end of my rope too, in a different way. 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.920 And so I understand that because I would not do 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.440 it again, but I'm glad I did. It was a 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:54.440 lot of yours rooted in how public your divorce, even 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.720 just like breakup slash divorce was. Is that where that 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:57.640 root was rooted in? 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.920 Yeah, it was that and the personal side of it 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:02.360 as well. 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:04.360 And it would also stuck to be so far away 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.280 from home and then something so personal is also happening 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.400 to you. You can't even like reach out and touch 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.240 your close family. 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.200 Right all right, Yeah, for sure, I know that was 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:17.280 definitely hard for my for my family too, but yeah, 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:17.480 it was. 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:18.680 It was It was a tough. 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.120 Time, man, and that whole that whole time was really tough, 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.840 and I think that sort of bled into the public side, 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.160 as you mentioned, but also like the business side of 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.640 things and then the personal side of things. And then 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.200 it sort of got, you know, to the end of 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:33.720 that year where I didn't have time to think about 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.040 my life. I was got to the end of it, 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.080 and I was like, what is the purpose of all this? 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.640 And what's real and what's not? And what the hell 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:42.360 am I doing in the middle of it? And I 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.840 think that was kind of the that was the end 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:45.960 of the road kind of feeling. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.400 I hated this city for a couple of years whenever 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.560 I had this stalker issue that was happening, like I 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:52.240 wanted to leave the city, and I hated everything about 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.920 it because it was like, what's even happening here? Who 0:16:54.920 --> 0:17:00.280 are my real friends? None of this matters? Like I 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.520 had that relationship with the city. I don't anymore. I'm 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.960 good again, right, But I hated it for a while. 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:13.200 Did you ever hate this city? 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.119 I don't know if I hated Nashville, but I definitely 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.920 think I saw way far farther behind the curtain, if 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:27.400 that makes sense. And I think I realized that I'd 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:28.920 been pretty naive to. 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:30.920 Maybe the. 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.040 You know how, in our business there's so like maybe 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.960 more than any other business, friendship and real life and 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.639 business and art and all that sort of just melds 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.040 into one, and so I was probably pretty naive to 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.280 the boundaries on that kind of those kind of things. 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:56.720 And I also think that I realized in a town 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.480 like Nashville, which is maybe like one of the things 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.840 that you could hate about Nashville or whatever, it's like 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.200 similar to maybe La or New York, A lot of 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.679 people come here with big dreams. They come here with 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.359 dreams to do whatever it is, work in the music 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:13.240 business or be a songwriter or a singer or recording whatever. 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.520 And I think those dreams are so big that they 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.359 got them out of their hometown or their country they 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.520 come here, and those dreams are also big that like, 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:23.760 there's times where like a moral compass can get clouded 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.400 by the big dream and the desperation that can sometimes 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.239