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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Well, welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here of course,

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Speaker 2: every night with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. So

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Speaker 2: listen everybody, It's Thursday, October ninth. We're almost to Friday.

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Speaker 2: We hope you have had a perfect day, because listen,

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Speaker 2: we have a stack knight of headlines. So Sarah Hartfield,

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Speaker 2: she's the wife accused of killing her fifth husband, has

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Speaker 2: in fact been convicted. So much to report on that. Also,

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Speaker 2: Richard Allen, he's serving time now in the Delphi murders,

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Speaker 2: so close to Boddy's heart. We're hearing a little bit

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Speaker 2: more from his attorneys and his plans for his appeal.

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Speaker 2: And also the judge responds to Ditty's request to a

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Speaker 2: very specific prison in New Jersey. Is he going to

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Speaker 2: give him that leeway or is he going to say no?

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Speaker 2: That information is in as well. Plus, the accused arsonist

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Speaker 2: in the Palisades fire appeared in court today. And also

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Speaker 2: that mom that vanished after that house went on fire.

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Speaker 2: She's been found today and guess what, she was two

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Speaker 2: and a half miles from home. So there is a

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Speaker 2: lot to uncover tonight, ladies. Huh. I gotta tell you,

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Speaker 2: I have been counting the minutes till I get to

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Speaker 2: be here with you guys tonight. So always good to

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Speaker 2: be here time. Everybody, pull up your proverbial chair to

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Speaker 2: our kitchen table. Yeah, grab a coffee, grab a cocktail,

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Speaker 2: grab some water, Grab your pumpkins spice. Let's go the

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Speaker 2: pumpkins spice.

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Speaker 3: I'm in ah.

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Speaker 4: You know what I want to know from everybody? Pumpkins spice? Yay?

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Speaker 4: Or na eight at eight three one crime? Body is

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Speaker 4: big time yay. I am thumbs down. So where do

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Speaker 4: you land on the spectrum of pumpkin spice?

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Speaker 3: I will say, I like butterscotch, the best butter you get.

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Speaker 3: Butter scotch, That's what I'm just gonna say. It's very

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Speaker 3: rarely available, but very like.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean you can't go that deep, but pumpkin

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Speaker 2: spice is everywhere right now. I smell. I love the smell.

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Speaker 2: I love the smell. This is one of my favorite smells.

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Speaker 2: It's like the kickoff to the season. Right, it's like

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Speaker 2: the buttic spooky season. It's my favorite time of years. Yes,

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Speaker 2: that it tastes as good as it smells.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't.

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Speaker 6: And they put it on things that I don't think

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Speaker 6: it should go on, like punk spice, potato chips, and

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Speaker 6: like everything comes like, that's true.

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Speaker 2: It is a little over potato chip, I think. But

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Speaker 2: that is a fair point. It's it's a little bit

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Speaker 2: like drinking a candle. You know. I don't know that

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Speaker 2: it tastes quite as good as it smells.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm the oddball. I guess I like it.

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Speaker 4: But we'll get a poll going.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: You get your coffee and sit at the table with us,

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Speaker 3: and let's let's have a conversation.

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Speaker 2: Right, well, let's have a conversation. Yeah, I hit episode

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Speaker 2: on her Socials. You've been doing a very good job

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Speaker 2: of that. And yes, you've been doing a very good

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Speaker 2: job on the talkbacks too, so keep those coming. Download

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Speaker 2: your iHeartRadio app. Press the icon in the top right

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Speaker 2: hand corner. It's like a little microphone. Once you press that,

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Speaker 2: you just leave a message and then boom, you're on

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Speaker 2: the show. In fact, let's go to one right now.

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Speaker 7: Hi, this is Diana from Georgia.

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Speaker 3: Body.

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Speaker 7: You asked what intrigues us about through crime? I grew

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Speaker 7: up in Stafford, Virginia, and my mom trained FBI students

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Speaker 7: at Hogan Zally in Quantico, and eventually I got to

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Speaker 7: go work with her for a little bit. Then I

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Speaker 7: went to Auburn University and had the opportunity to here

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Speaker 7: John Douglas speech.

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Speaker 8: It was fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Deanna, listen, we're Deanna as well. Were we separated

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Speaker 3: at birth? I wonder, except for the FBI thing that

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Speaker 3: is phenomenal that is about to see John Douglas. Oh,

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Speaker 3: I love him. I have a wish list and John

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Speaker 3: Douglas is number one on that wish list of people

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Speaker 3: to talk to. So really I am very jealous of you.

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Speaker 5: Yes, John, can you share.

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Speaker 2: Tell us everything?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Oh, John Douglas.

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Speaker 3: He is basically the godfather of FBI, of criminal profiling,

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Speaker 3: mind Hunter, my favorite show of all time is literally

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Speaker 3: my favorite show of all time. The character that basically

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Speaker 3: creates the behavioral science unit, the young guy full of

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Speaker 3: rigor and enthusiasm and so cute, is based loosely around

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Speaker 3: John Douglas and he's first of all, he's an animal lover.

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Speaker 3: He is just a really nice person. And he's a

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Speaker 3: criminal profiler. He basically invented criminal profiling. He's phenomenal.

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Speaker 5: And that's probably one of the best shows ever.

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Speaker 3: So good.

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Speaker 2: It's not on our True crime in chill. Also, Minehunter

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Speaker 2: is like one of the basics that is really fun

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Speaker 2: to watch if you're new to this, like conversation about

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Speaker 2: solving things and justice and putting together clues. Mindhunters.

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Speaker 3: Really it really is really a class master app And

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Speaker 3: I keep falling. People keep teasing that there's going to

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Speaker 3: be a season three, like and I keep falling for

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Speaker 3: it every single time I see it. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: season three is coming, ome my because it famously got

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Speaker 3: canceled because it's just really expensive apparently to produce.

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Speaker 2: And I keep saying for Nolan is really expensive too.

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Speaker 4: Christipher Nolan is sutiful.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh my goodness. Like that's a director who just

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Speaker 2: does very methodical, intentional work, allegedly illegedly, but like he's

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Speaker 2: like the master of all directing. Who would you cast

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Speaker 2: as the stars of the next mind Hunter? Is there,

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Speaker 2: like an actor or an actress, body that you think

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Speaker 2: would be just amazing and one of those true crime

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: Really have to think about it. I don't have anybody

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Speaker 3: that I'm not really like. I don't really know famous

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Speaker 3: people's names. I'm really bad at that, so i'd have

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Speaker 3: to think about it. Look, people love, I don't have a.

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Speaker 4: Good question. Let's ask them.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea.

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Speaker 4: I throw Jake joll And holl In there, but i'd

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Speaker 4: throw him and almost any.

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Speaker 2: But he just did one right, like he just did

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Speaker 2: he presumed innocent. Oh yes, yes, that was quite good too.

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Speaker 3: Christopher Nolan. By the way, I directed my favorite movie

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Speaker 3: of all time. If your conception Interstellar, Interstellar was beautiful,

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Speaker 3: That's our favorite movie of all time, all time. It's

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Speaker 3: actually my phone wallpaper. I have a sound d I

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Speaker 3: love Interstellar.

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Speaker 2: That's so funny because I'm going to watch that again.

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Speaker 2: And I loved it as well the first time, but

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Speaker 2: not maybe as profoundly. You know, sometimes you watch something yeah,

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Speaker 2: half asleep and right BedHead, and you're not paying as

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Speaker 2: much attention. But I really did love it. Yeah, Shawshank

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Speaker 2: would be mine, of course for yours.

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Speaker 4: Broadcast news my favorite movie.

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen that Oh it's so good. Okay, I

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Speaker 3: will add it to my list to watch. Like you

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Speaker 3: and I not like have a really similar you know thing,

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Speaker 3: you'll dig Your similar thing is West Wing. Let's there's

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Speaker 3: a million similar things. It's always the same thing, just

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Speaker 3: West Wing. We're obsessed with West's.

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Speaker 2: Really you, guys, honestly, will I promise you one day

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Speaker 2: we're going to have somebody from the West Wing on

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Speaker 2: as a play by play. And because neither of you

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Speaker 2: able to like control yourself. Oh yeah, let's try for

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Speaker 2: what's your name, Jenny Alison jam So let's try j

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Speaker 2: Freg take it on the list. That's get I know

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Speaker 2: there's no full moon tonight, but that's what I'm wishing.

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Speaker 5: For, visioning a little bitting.

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Speaker 2: Maybe for one of your birthdays we'll have like Alison

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Speaker 2: Janny on for like a special courtiny and body day.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Deanna, thank you for the talkback. We went off

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Speaker 3: on a tangent, but thank you so much for the talkback.

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Speaker 3: And I am very jealous of the experience you got

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Speaker 3: to say, fiat On Douglas, I love it.

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Speaker 4: And bringing us back Stephanie. You mentioned at the very

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Speaker 4: top of the show. Sarah Hartsfield indeed has been convicted

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Speaker 4: and sentenced to life. She's in prison for killing her

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Speaker 4: fifth husband, Joseph Hartsfield. She did it with a fatal

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Speaker 4: insulin overdose. She also delayed medical help. Hartsfield was a

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Speaker 4: former US Army sergeant. And this well not alleged murder.

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Speaker 4: This murder took place January of twenty twenty three. But

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Speaker 4: her boy, she has a real complex and disturbing history.

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Speaker 3: That's an understatement.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, the multiple marriages. Listen, we all live

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Speaker 4: different lives, and you know, love may come in and

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Speaker 4: go in all of our lives. However, yeah, hers came

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Speaker 4: and went with a lot of violence, just briefly. Okay.

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Speaker 4: Do we want the quick rundown of her husband's Okay, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because it really goes strong who she is, right like

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Speaker 2: I feel, Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Rundown five different men. I mean I shouldn't say it

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Speaker 6: that way, but go through it.

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Speaker 4: Okay. So, her first husband claims she threatened him during

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Speaker 4: their divorce and harassed him for years afterwards. In nineteen

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Speaker 4: ninety six, she was arrested for assaulting her second husband.

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Speaker 4: I will say charges were later dropped. Then her third

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Speaker 4: husband accused her of urging her fourth husband to kill

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Speaker 4: his new wife, allegedly providing him with the pistol and

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Speaker 4: issuing threats.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Wow, she has not been charged in connection with the

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Speaker 4: alleged murder plot involving her fourth husband and all this.

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Speaker 4: So there's the four husbands. We know very very sad

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Speaker 4: how it ended for her fifth Joseph Hartsfield. But then

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Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen there was a fiancee, David Bragg, and

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Speaker 4: she fatally shot him. Ultimately, Yes, yes, ultimately the case

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Speaker 4: was ruled self defense, but prosecutors did reopen the investigation

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Speaker 4: after her twenty twenty three indictment.

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Speaker 2: Wow, how many do you have to be? So if

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Speaker 2: she was, if she's found guilty, if they reopen the

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Speaker 2: case for her fiance that she shot and fatally killed,

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Speaker 2: and we now know she's been convicted of killing the

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Speaker 2: fifth husband with insolin, would that make her a serial killer?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 4: We need to look.

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Speaker 9: I know.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so, because I think it's three or

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Speaker 2: more for a SEW. I'd have to hundred percent. Shouldn't

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Speaker 2: know the answer to this. I need to me too,

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Speaker 2: but I feel like so I apologize to the world.

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Speaker 2: But just like she's pretty close you know, thank god

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Speaker 2: she's been apprehended, because it seems like she's on a tear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and obviously they're going to reopen this case and

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Speaker 3: find out if she needs to be indicted for this, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean this is crazy. I don't know how I

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Speaker 3: missed that.

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Speaker 4: And during the trial, this was day five. This happened

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Speaker 4: on the third, So I can't imagine how hard this

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Speaker 4: must have been for Doris Swartz. She is the mother

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Speaker 4: of David Bragg, who is the former Fans who she

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Speaker 4: fatally shot. She testified that Sarah had an incredibly complex

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Speaker 4: relationship with her son David, and also had this whole

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Speaker 4: disturbing claim, which I'm interested by the fact that it

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Speaker 4: was let into court. She had an interesting claim that

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Speaker 4: Sarah had burned down her grandmother's house in order to

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Speaker 4: prevent her brother from inheriting it.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 4: So it just seems like.

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Speaker 2: Hurt.

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Speaker 3: We have armison right, this past violent history. Two murders,

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Speaker 3: and I do believe it's.

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Speaker 2: Three or more.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I just looked, and if there's no single number,

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Speaker 6: everyone agrees on, but most experts say two or more

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Speaker 6: separate victims with a cooling off period between.

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Speaker 2: I'm still going to period. I can't handle it. The

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Speaker 2: idea of the cooling off period. That's another show I'm

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Speaker 2: developing in my head. The cooling off period.

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Speaker 4: I know that's scary.

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Speaker 2: It's this little moment between a serial killer's killings where

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Speaker 2: they go basically be normal, where they like reintegrate into

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Speaker 2: the real world. Can you see that scripted show. We're

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Speaker 2: going to be watching this on True Crime and chill

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Speaker 2: one day, mark my words.

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Speaker 3: I believe it.

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Speaker 2: But it is like a chilling thing.

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Speaker 4: And I mean BTK had an unbelievable the buying torture

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Speaker 4: kill serial murderer Dennis Radar because in between when he

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Speaker 4: was doing the most heinous and hideous things, he would

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Speaker 4: then go back to quote normal life and be a dad.

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Speaker 4: And he was a church council president and he was

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Speaker 4: I believe, a boy. Yes, he was a cub.

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Speaker 2: Scout leader, was a cup Scout leader. That's right. And

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Speaker 2: by the way, that's not uncommon in fact, many serial killers.

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Speaker 2: We're working on a documentary now. I can't talk about

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Speaker 2: it yet, but I can't wait until I do. But

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Speaker 2: there's a little bit of a cooling off period involved,

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Speaker 2: and it's pretty impossible to imagine that someone. You know,

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Speaker 2: we talk about this a lot, being two things at

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Speaker 2: the same time, being a parent and a husband in

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Speaker 2: between it's times and going to the PTA meetings and

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Speaker 2: being a parishioner and you know, being a really good

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Speaker 2: neighbor for like years while doing the most painous things

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Speaker 2: around the edges is like it is impossible to imagine.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, BTK is a great example. He was an

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Speaker 2: extraordinary father. According to his daughter document Long Island.

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Speaker 4: I was going to say, exactly, taha Long Island serial

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Speaker 4: killer if what's alleged is true, that I had a

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Speaker 4: nice job and architects and a family man and all

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Speaker 4: that love. And meanwhile there we go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and there are outliers like Richard Ramirez was a

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Speaker 3: horrible human being in every every aspect, Like he just

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Speaker 3: couldn't get it together. Ever. You know, he didn't have

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Speaker 3: a normal any sense of normalcy like BTK or Bundy

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Speaker 3: or Lisk. You know, he didn't have any of that.

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Speaker 3: But there are outliers, there are exceptions, But for the.

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Speaker 4: Most that's that's easier to comprehend for me. It is

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Speaker 4: for me to tell a lot for me too.

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Speaker 3: For me, that's why the cooling off period is so chilling, right,

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Speaker 3: I almost feel like it's a mask. It's like this

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Speaker 3: is like a beard almost, you know how I'm a

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Speaker 3: normal person. But it's not a half a day. It

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Speaker 3: can be years years. Ye.

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Speaker 4: Listen, when we come back, a federal judges signing off

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Speaker 4: on Diddy serving time near New York. But he may

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Speaker 4: not be happy with this prison. And the Delphi murder

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Speaker 4: case takes a turn, we're gonna hear what Richard Allen's

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Speaker 4: lo are pushing for. Now keep it here True Crime Tonight,

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Speaker 4: and we'd love you to join us eight at eight

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Speaker 4: three one Crime.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker, I head

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Speaker 2: of KAT Studios, where we get to make true crime

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Speaker 2: podcasts like The Idaho Massacre Season three out now. Body

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Speaker 2: and Courtney are both exceptional in it as well as

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Speaker 2: in Cells, also out now. You'll recognize the smooth stylings

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Speaker 2: of Courtney Armstrong's voice in in Cells also producing it,

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Speaker 2: and Body is excellent in it and it's so important,

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Speaker 2: So we really hope you'll check it out iHeart Just

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Speaker 2: download your app. It's also free anyway, So welcome back.

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Speaker 2: I'm here, of course with Courtney and body. Courtney and

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Speaker 2: I are doing some weight. They're literally exercising.

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Speaker 3: You guys. I'm surprised you're not out of breath. It's

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Speaker 3: so so and I ordered some weight by the way,

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Speaker 3: I'm we're going to.

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Speaker 2: Be written and a half pounds, So one and a

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Speaker 2: half pound weight is what we're dealing with. But we

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Speaker 2: are going to try to lift our arms with it

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Speaker 2: during the breaks.

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Speaker 3: If we come back and we're like, welcome to your friends,

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Speaker 3: you know why.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it makes me want to like have a martini

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Speaker 2: and maybe a cigarette.

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Speaker 10: You know.

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Speaker 2: Balance, It's a balance in my mind's eye, that's always

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Speaker 2: what should be happening, but the real world says otherwise. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: So listen more to I'm pack on the Delphi case

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Speaker 2: as well, and listen. We'll get to that next. But Diddy,

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Speaker 2: So we've been listening, of course, and watching how puff

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Speaker 2: Daddy Diddy is now looking at fifty months behind bars

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Speaker 2: and what I didn't realize and maybe you guys did that.

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Speaker 2: After you're sets, especially in a federal case like this,

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Speaker 2: the next big topic of conversation is where are you

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Speaker 2: going to go. Right now, he's serving time in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 2: We've heard a lot about the conditions there. They have

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Speaker 2: not been up to par for him. We've heard that

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Speaker 2: it's really horrible conditions, quite frankly according to his family

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Speaker 2: and his you know, defense attorneys, maggots in the food,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. It's also where Luigi Mangione is being held.

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Speaker 2: Also allegedly his roommate is Sam Bankman, who is the

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Speaker 2: sort of the infamous financier who's since been disgraced and

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Speaker 2: serving time there as well. So now he's going to

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Speaker 2: be transferred to live out this fifty months. And who

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Speaker 2: would have thought that that is a really big decision, right,

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Speaker 2: So typically for you and I, that would really look

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Speaker 2: like they just assigned you to a prison and you

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Speaker 2: go to it, and I would have to assume that's

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Speaker 2: based on population or you know whatever population in the nature.

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Speaker 3: The crime too, right, like maximum security versus.

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Speaker 2: Are you going to get shank? Are you going to

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Speaker 2: be doing the shanking? Are dangerous? So yeah, is this

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Speaker 2: a homicide and a murder versus tax evasion? Right or

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Speaker 2: something to that effect in his case. In Ditty's case,

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Speaker 2: he's making a very specific recommendation that he wants to

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Speaker 2: be as close to New York City as possible and

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Speaker 2: obviously as low of a security prison as possible within

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Speaker 2: the kind fines of the federal system, and that has

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Speaker 2: to go before the judge. It's funny you and I

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Speaker 2: we all talked about this right before the judgment came through.

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Speaker 2: I had heard to the grapevine that one of the

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Speaker 2: mothers of Ditty's children, the youngest. The child's name is

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Speaker 2: Love and the mother's name is Dana Chran. She's actually

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Speaker 2: like a cyber security expert, and there was a conversation

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Speaker 2: allegedly happening between her and attorneys basically getting some ideas

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Speaker 2: of what we be the best case scenario for Ditty.

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Speaker 2: Where should he go, where he will be the safest,

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Speaker 2: that has like the best conditions, the best job situations,

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Speaker 2: that he could maybe get some credit for early removal

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Speaker 2: from prison. So he's asking for a very specific place

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Speaker 2: for Dix. We talked about this last night. Low security.

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Speaker 2: There's not any armed guards. For example, you know, they're

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Speaker 2: in like a bunk. It's not like you're in your

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Speaker 2: own cell and you're not getting a lot of daylight.

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Speaker 2: Like they're not in Shane, you know, shackles that kind

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Speaker 2: of thing. So this has to go before the judge,

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Speaker 2: and Judge Submarinean apparently is pretty open to the idea

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Speaker 2: of letting Ditty kind of pick and choose. He said,

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Speaker 2: he will be really open to the idea of him

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Speaker 2: being on the East Coast, specifically near New York City.

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Speaker 2: I suppose lots of Ditty's family is in the New

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Speaker 2: York City area, so maybe having a time in New Jersey,

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Speaker 2: which is of course not very far away, would serve him.

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Speaker 2: So the judge didn't say specifically yes to that request

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Speaker 2: for the prison, but he did say yes for the

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Speaker 2: location and area and by the way, so that makes

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Speaker 2: sense to me. But then I got a little annoyed

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Speaker 2: for the regular man. Then I thought about, like, what

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Speaker 2: would happen if the rest of us or anybody behind

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Speaker 2: bars wanted to pick and choose where they got to go.

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Speaker 2: Is that fair or is that yet another example of

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Speaker 2: influence and being famous giving you a better stay. I

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Speaker 2: don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think it probably depends on the arguments the lawyers

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Speaker 3: make for the benefit of him, right, Like, obviously, when

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Speaker 3: you send somebody to prison in a short stint, is

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Speaker 3: such as fifty months. You want them to come out

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Speaker 3: better than they went in, right, And so they're going

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Speaker 3: to make an argument to say, and I haven't you

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Speaker 3: read the argument, but I would assume Boom that the

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Speaker 3: arguments are, this is the most beneficial for his you know,

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Speaker 3: recovered rehabilitation. Sure, like do they have a drug treatment

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Speaker 3: program or alcohol program? And like you said, work credits

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Speaker 3: And there's probably a whole strategy that goes into picking

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Speaker 3: that prison. And here's what here's what I'm going to

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Speaker 3: say that that comes with having money, right, because you

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Speaker 3: have to have the lawyers to be able to do

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Speaker 3: that great argument.

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Speaker 4: Well, to make the petition, because anyone can, any prisoner

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Speaker 4: can petition. Whether it's you know, I can be Joe

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Speaker 4: with no money and my mother in another state is ailing.

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Speaker 4: Can I move there? It can be you know, I'm

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Speaker 4: having a terrible time. It can be it can be

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Speaker 4: many different things. But to your point, it's having the

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Speaker 4: lawyer who will get the argument actually heard and passed

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Speaker 4: certainly will help the cause.

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Speaker 5: Do you think it's an.

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Speaker 2: Interesting thing too, just in general for inmates or anybody

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Speaker 2: who's serving time, excuse me, for their family members. So

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Speaker 2: if somebody is serving time behind bars. You assume if

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Speaker 2: you have a family or loved ones that they're going

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Speaker 2: to want to visit you every other Sunday and you know,

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Speaker 2: bring you baked goods. In my head, but imagine if

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Speaker 2: you're in a different state, that's not an option. So

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Speaker 2: I would have to assume that the first attempt for

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Speaker 2: most prisoners is to be near a location where your

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Speaker 2: family can travel by car to go see you. All

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Speaker 2: that to be said, it's not a perfect system. I

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Speaker 2: don't know that the every man gets that luxury. And

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Speaker 2: sometimes people have to travel to many states to go

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Speaker 2: see their dad or to go see their you know, son,

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Speaker 2: and that's pretty hard anyway. I just kind of made

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Speaker 2: me go down a rabbit hole about that today in

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Speaker 2: my head, about how hard it must be to want

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Speaker 2: to rehabilitate your life. Meanwhile, you can't see your loved

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Speaker 2: ones because they're so very far away, and of course

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Speaker 2: they have jobs in school, et cetera. I don't know

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Speaker 2: that everybody. It's a luxury to pick and choose. But

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Speaker 2: that said did he has served time in Brooklyn, and

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Speaker 2: apparently that's a tough spot according to him and many

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Speaker 2: By the way, I don't think anybody's saying that's you know,

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Speaker 2: the four seasons. So in theory, if he's going into

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Speaker 2: any low security prison, it should be a bit of

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Speaker 2: an upgrade for him.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that should be true.

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Speaker 6: But I was going to throw in, do you think

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Speaker 6: it also impacts you know, he's a celebrity, he's well known,

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Speaker 6: and there is a side where you know, there's some

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Speaker 6: creid for an innate that stabs a celebrity or something.

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Speaker 6: So do they try to keep him in a facility

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Speaker 6: that might be a little safer for someone who is

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Speaker 6: very well known.

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Speaker 4: It would make sense, even from a liability standpoint. I

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Speaker 4: would have to imagine, because it's not going to be

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Speaker 4: a good look for any prison facility if someone goes

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Speaker 4: in there, particularly well known and something happens to them.

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Speaker 4: So I'd have to imagine that does weigh in of

437
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 4: is there basically the personnel or the infrastructure to manage

438
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 4: or mitigate the risk?

439
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 2: M h. Yeah, that's an interesting point because we've seen

440
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: that in low security prisons. I don't know why I'm

441
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 2: thinking of the chrislies Todd Christly and his wife, very

442
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: low security issues. Low security you know, Diddy, it's been

443
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: so prolific in the rap world with the Tupac and

444
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 2: the Bigie and the war between rap worlds. I wonder

445
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 2: if there is an added layer of security to be

446
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 2: considered in his case. Although four Dix doesn't have like

447
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 2: individual housing, he would be living in like a bunk

448
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: with you know, four to five guys, and that's it's

449
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: mostly communal. It's not that you have your own space

450
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 2: and that you're kept away from general population.

451
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 10: See.

452
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want my own space. I don't want anybody else.

453
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 2: Yeah I would, of course, he would.

454
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, Like no, yeah, me too. I want to

455
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 3: shut the door and I don't want to talk to nobody.

456
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 3: I want my little stash of my goodies safe on

457
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 3: my whatever. I'm imagining the Epstein cell a little bit

458
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: with all his stuff at the top. I don't know.

459
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 3: I think I would want. I don't want to be

460
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,479
Speaker 3: house with people. Absolutely not.

461
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 4: I think anyone would want give him the option. Who

462
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 4: would say, no, let me bunk with nine strangers. I

463
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 4: don't know.

464
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 2: I might take the nine strangers well, are very social.

465
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 3: I'm not.

466
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: I would feel like, you know, we band together and

467
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 2: we we we survive this together.

468
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 4: Oh my lord stars.

469
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 2: So I was like eh, we can all have weighted

470
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: bests and you know, so a little something for ourselves.

471
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 3: Interesting. Interesting, Well, I don't think we're heal alone.

472
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: I think Martha made some friends behind bars, even that

473
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 2: the Chrystalies seem to do well in general.

474
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: Pop.

475
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: Well, I have another update for Delphi.

476
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 4: We want to so.

477
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: Richard Allen's appellat attorneys are seeking to overturn his one

478
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty year sentence for the Delphi murders by

479
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 3: challenging the legality of the search warrant and the exclusion

480
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 3: of third party suspect evidence.

481
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: So this goes back to the little background.

482
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 3: Richard Allen was sentenced in November of last year to

483
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty years for the murder of fourteen

484
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: year old Liberty German and thirteen year old Abigail Williams

485
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 3: in Delphi, Indiana, near the Monon Highbridge. He was arrested

486
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two. It was five years later and

487
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: then convicted in twenty twenty four and he received a

488
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty year sentence. But prior to him

489
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: being sentenced and prior to the trial, the defense dropped

490
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: an explosive document and it was called the motion for

491
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 3: Frank's hearing. Okay, and a Frank's hearing, if you don't

492
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 3: know what that is, it's basically saying the sheriff's office,

493
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 3: and this is general, this is throughout the United States

494
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 3: of Frank's and we had won in Idaho as well.

495
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: It basically implies, or is accusing the polonn enforcement of

496
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: lying in order to secure a search warrant. And therefore,

497
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 3: if there was a lie, even by omission, the search

498
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 3: warrant should be invalid. And therefore, you know, none of

499
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: these things would have been seized. Therefore he would never

500
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: would have been indicted. Therefore, you know, it's the fruit

501
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: of the poisonous tree.

502
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: And right, so it's the fruit of the poisonous tree.

503
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 2: So excuse me, how a frog in my throne? I'm

504
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: very sorry I had it earlier.

505
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on. I think it's the

506
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 3: chill in the air, which I enjoy.

507
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 4: But in case that's I was going to say, a

508
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 4: little pumpkin spice taste.

509
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to get some pumpkin spice cough drops.

510
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: So so, this Frank's hearing was explosive, and in this

511
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 3: Frank's motion. They came out with a lot of information

512
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: to basically blame other parties, and they, you know, said

513
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 3: that we want we want to have this Frank's hearing,

514
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 3: not only because the Sheriff's office lied about witness testimony,

515
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: which is what they implied, but they also said they

516
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 3: also lost this report that said from the FBI, by

517
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 3: the way, that said this was an odinist ritualistic sacrifice. Basically,

518
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 3: I'm kind of paraphrasing because there's a lot with the ALFA,

519
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: you guys, there's so much.

520
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: I'm trying to make this as concise as possible.

521
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 3: And so the judge judge Goal that presided over the

522
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: case and that all the pre trial motions exclude, said no,

523
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 3: you can't present this evidence.

524
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: It's crazy talk.

525
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: But there was compelling information in this Frank's motion that

526
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 3: I was kind of surprised I got denied. I'm not

527
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: gonna lie. I was a little surprised, and not you know,

528
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily buy into the odiness sacrifice or whatever,

529
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 3: but the evidence about the search warrant and the police

530
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: officers potentially you know, lying by a mission about witness

531
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: testimony was very compelling to me. So I kind of

532
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 3: was surprised a little bit that I'm surprised to hear

533
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 3: you say that. I know, I know, I'm very I know,

534
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: I know. Delphi is the one case where I just

535
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: I just don't I just don't know if it was

536
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 3: Richard Allen, you guys. And I feel terrible saying that,

537
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 3: because again, I really believe in our system and I

538
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: want to believe that they got the right guy for

539
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: this family and for these little girls, and you know,

540
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: the town of Delphi. It's just I'm not I'm not

541
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: saying he's not the guy, but I'm not saying he

542
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 3: is either. I don't know, but it's not to me, right,

543
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: my opinion doesn't really matter.

544
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: But now, but the family is divided also several of

545
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: the victims. You know, there's two beautiful girls at the

546
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: center of this, and not all of the family members

547
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: of those two victims are in alignment either with this conviction.

548
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, it's it's it's it's a tough spot

549
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 9: to be especially when there's multiple victims. You know, we

550
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 9: saw this in Idaho too, right, when different strategies and

551
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 9: there's multiple families involved, and trying to make everybody happy

552
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 9: almost seems impossible. So the judge granted.

553
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 3: Basically, what they're asking for is more time to submit

554
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: their appeal.

555
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: The judge granted it.

556
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: They have until I believe October twenty first now to

557
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 3: complete their appeal process, and we'll see what happens. I

558
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: don't know if it's going to be granted or not.

559
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: But you know, this whole thing, this fruit of the

560
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: poisonous tree, is a big deal in Delphi. And you

561
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 3: know Judge Goal what her decisions were, very controversial and

562
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 3: very states approved.

563
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: And listen, please check in, leave us at talkback, hit

564
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: us up in our socials. We do want to hear

565
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: from you. There's a lot of stories to get through

566
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: tonight and also a lot of talk packs to get

567
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: through tonight. So body, before we go to our next talkback,

568
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: just to finish up on Delphi, because I know there

569
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: were some last licks there. Yeah, it's kind an interesting case.

570
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 3: Every time I talk about Delphi kind of start rambling,

571
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 3: So sorry about that.

572
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: So close.

573
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: So a really significant portion of the appeal is going

574
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: to be centered around this alleged new evidence that Ron

575
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: Logan confessed to another inmate while he was in prison

576
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen, and Ron Logan if you're not really

577
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: conversant with Delphi, is the property owner where the girls

578
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 3: were found, okay, and he has a shady history, and

579
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,239
Speaker 3: he also lied about his whereabouts on the day they

580
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 3: were you know that this murder happened, and he's always

581
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 3: been kind of suspect and a lot of people think

582
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: he might be Bridge Guy. And Bridge Guy is of

583
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 3: course famously filmed by one of the victims, Liberty German.

584
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 3: Right before they were murdered. They were on the moan

585
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 3: on Highbridge. They were taking photos. They were being cute

586
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 3: teenagers posting the snapchat. Well while they were doing this,

587
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: a man approached them and told them to go down

588
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: the hill and when they went to down the hill,

589
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 3: they were murdered, presumably by Bridge Guy, and Libby recorded

590
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: all of it. The problem is the recording is like,

591
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: you know, it's twenty seventeen, and he was kind of

592
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 3: far away, you really can't see his face. But a

593
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: lot of people compare Bridge Guy to Ron Logan, and

594
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 3: the you know, the comparisons are pretty compelling. However, he

595
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: died during COVID, so yeah, he died during COVID, So

596
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 3: that's going to be a significant part of this appeal process,

597
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 3: and they're basically trying to impeach Brad Webber, who Brad

598
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 3: Weber was a witness, not really a witness, but he

599
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 3: was driving home and passed through this area and was

600
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,959
Speaker 3: really key in getting Richard Allen convicted, along with Richard

601
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: Allen's confessions, which people argue were coursed. Both the defense

602
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 3: and the prosecution both agree that the appellate team needs

603
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 3: to access these missing trial exhibits as well, and they

604
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: both requested extended deadlines to review them. And by the way,

605
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 3: less than five percent of convictions are overturned on direct appeal.

606
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: But legal experts say the third party suspect exclusion again

607
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 3: remember the fact through the Poison Street, this third party

608
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 3: exclusion that they that they argued in court may offer

609
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 3: Annan's team their strongest argument. So we're going to see that.

610
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 3: We're definitely going to be following up on this, like

611
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: for sure, you know what.

612
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 2: The most, not the most, but something about this case.

613
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 2: And listen, I've heard you speak about it because I

614
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: know it's so close to your heart, and even following

615
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: it so incredibly closely, it's sort of like, you know, Courtney,

616
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,959
Speaker 2: you and I have piked In and the Pie County

617
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 2: massacre in Idaho. I feel like we've all been living

618
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 2: certain cases for such a long time.

619
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

620
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: The thing about Delphi that always strikes me is the

621
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: fact that this murder happened to these two beautiful girls

622
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: on a snow day. Yeah, wasn't it like a surprise day.

623
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: It wasn't a surday because snow there, but it was

624
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: just like a surprise off day for school, like they

625
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 2: should have been somewhere else. They should have been at school,

626
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 2: but the school was closed that.

627
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 3: Day because they had a They didn't have a snow

628
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 3: day during the winter, so they had too many days

629
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 3: for school. And it was an unseasonably warm day in

630
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 3: the middle of February in Delphi, Indiana, and the girls.

631
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: Were like, Oh, it's beautiful, let's go out.

632
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: They shouldn't have been there.

633
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 2: They shouldn't have been there. And that is that sliding

634
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 2: door moment. And I think in true crime we see

635
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: that so often often, where it's just that it was

636
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: like the day was different, and therefore this happened. And

637
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: I think to myself so often. My daddy used to

638
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 2: always say this when he read things in the newspaper, too.

639
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: If they had only stayed home that morning, or if

640
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 2: they didn't get that cup of coffee on the way

641
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: to work, maybe that accident wouldn't have happened. And this

642
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: is just one of those cases that really sticks with

643
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 2: me in that regard, and if I'm a family member,

644
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: it just must be, Oh, they just gone to school

645
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: as planned, right.

646
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 3: I think about that with Idaho sometimes I'm watching the

647
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: grub hub footage or the grub truck, but it had

648
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: been just just longer. Maybe if you know, they didn't

649
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 3: order the food, or you know, if they had sat

650
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 3: there and eat it at the ball, if they ate

651
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 3: it at the.

652
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 2: Bar, or if they just like chummed up with friends,

653
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: and if they order took a little bit longer. Of course,

654
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 2: nobody involved in this, like you know, timeline we're describing,

655
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: has any part in it. But sometimes there are crimes

656
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 2: that just seem like crimes of the moment, and is

657
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: like that your a moment or is that just the

658
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 2: moment that happened? And I think that's what we all

659
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: kind of scratch out a little bit. And with these

660
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: beautiful young girls, like they were just walking across a

661
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: wooded bridge, two best friends on a day off from

662
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: school on an unseasonably warm day in February, and you

663
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 2: know what, their sister dropped them off. One of their sisters,

664
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: if I remember correctly, had dropped them off, and mom

665
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: and sister were like, don't forget your jacket. You're going

666
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 2: to be like walking across this beautiful wooded bridge, like

667
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: the one that I remember from the movie Stand By

668
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 2: Me when they all run across that bridge. It has

669
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: like this picturesque place. You know, Delphi is a beautiful place.

670
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: These were loved girls and dear friends.

671
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: Weals, they were the best friends too.

672
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 2: They were like preteens.

673
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: One thing that always strikes me about Delphi is that,

674
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: you know, there there's allegedly one perpetrator, Richard Allen, and

675
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: you know, they never left each other side, and it

676
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 3: makes me kind of like tear up a little bit

677
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 3: thinking about it. And they never left each other side.

678
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 3: And you know, for for five years, well for seven years,

679
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 3: we ate almost eight the bridge. The full Bridge Guy

680
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 3: video had been kept from the public, and recently the

681
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: defense team for Richard Allen released the full video and

682
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 3: we finally get to see you know, the lead up everything,

683
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 3: and you can hear Libby's just a sweet voice. You know,

684
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 3: she's so compliant, and you know, Abby is walking toward

685
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: her on the bridge and I think she kind of

686
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 3: it's hard to hear. You can kind of hear her say,

687
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: is he still behind me? And she's talking about bridge,

688
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 3: you know, walking towards her. She's scared, and you kind

689
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,720
Speaker 3: of hear her say, don't leave me, and Libby, Libby, Libby,

690
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 3: her sweet voice says, there's nowhere else to go. We

691
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: have to go down. And then you hear bridge guy

692
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 3: come into, you know, closer to the girls, and he says,

693
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 3: guys and they say yeah, and it's just heartbreaking, heartbreaking,

694
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: and they say and then he says, down the hill.

695
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: Oh, it's just I have to jump in. Because by

696
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 2: the way, if you're just joining us, you're listening to

697
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 2: true crime tonight. We're talking about the Delphi murders. It's

698
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: very close to our hearts, very close to you know,

699
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 2: bodies specifically. I'm Stephanie here with Courtney and body, you know,

700
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 2: we talk about compliance. I want to say one thing

701
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: that I learned. I think I learned this from working

702
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 2: with Nancy Grays back in the day. Courtney, you too,

703
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 2: we had some sort of like safety expert on. I

704
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 2: know we have one on later today, thank goodness. So

705
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: what you just said though, and again, this is not

706
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: a victim thing in terms of they did everything correctly.

707
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 3: They did everything right.

708
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 2: Just to remember, when their bodies were found, they had

709
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 2: been redressed. Yeah, whatever sicko did this to them. They

710
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: were so unkind to these beautiful young girls, and these

711
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: young girls because we're all trained to be compliant, right, so, oh,

712
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 2: you know what do I do? And I think we

713
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 2: need to teach our girls and ore you know, anyone

714
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 2: young Frankly, you need to get loud and you are.

715
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: You do not have to be compliant when you have

716
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: that sixth sense. What you just described is she said,

717
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: don't leave me, and like there's nowhere else to go, right, Like,

718
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: That's what we all would have done in that situation.

719
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: Everybody would have done the exact same thing in that scenario.

720
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: And I think the takeaway in retrospects, which is the

721
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 2: only thing that we have, is you don't go. You

722
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 2: fight like hell, you don't get in the car. By

723
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: the way, your ability to survive a crime goes down

724
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: fifty percent if you get in the car.

725
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.

726
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a staggering number, right so, and by

727
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 2: the way, if anyone knows more about this, please join

728
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 2: the conversation. This is something that I was told. But

729
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: you just don't want to get in the vehicle because

730
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 2: once you get in the vehicle, your odds of survival

731
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: go down so much. And as women as specifically but

732
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: not all women and the men are not excluded from this.

733
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: Please forgive me if that seems exclusive. But we are

734
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: trained to be polite and to listen to an elder.

735
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 2: And imagine being a little girl, a little teen. Some

736
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 2: bridge guy is like lurking behind you and telling you

737
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: to do something. What are you gonna do? Jump off

738
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: the bridge?

739
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: No?

740
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: But like what do you do? And I think that's

741
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 2: something that we all have to rally about. And I

742
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: don't know the answer in this moment. Good goodness, God

743
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: do I not know? But I want to know so

744
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 2: that you know, in honor of them, we can fight

745
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: back a little bit because how they were treated, and frankly,

746
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: how they were mistreated is something that should never be forgotten.

747
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: And body you're living at real time, I see it

748
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: in your eyes. All of us are in courtney as well.

749
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: They are They should be our heroes to fight and

750
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 2: we should dissect that. Think about it.

751
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 3: Like Libby had the bravery to take out her phone

752
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 3: and she she was kind of hidden like he didn't

753
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 3: know she was recording. She and oh, by the way,

754
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this about Libby German,

755
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 3: the victim and this one of the victims in this case,

756
00:40:58,520 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 3: she was, she loved to crime.

757
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 2: She wanted, she wanted. She was smart enough to let

758
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: you know how scared you must she want to be

759
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: tack your phone out. So this one, that's the wherewithal

760
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 2: By the way, that's how we're solving this crime is

761
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: because of her footage. Because of that is the only

762
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 2: reason that there is any investigation to be had. Frankly,

763
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: how the bodies were discovered in body, I don't want to,

764
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: you know, speak for you. I've only heard this via you, Frankly,

765
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 2: and the reports that I've read. You know, this is

766
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 2: a scene that was pretty unspeakable. It was unspeakable, Frankly.

767
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: So Libby, Libby was Libby was nude, and Abby was

768
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 3: dressed in Libby's clothing, and they had like these branches

769
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 3: over their bodies, which you know in the Frank's memorandum

770
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 3: that I talked about in the prior segment. They are

771
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 3: kind of laid in a in a very weird pattern.

772
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 3: But the state argued that it was just you know,

773
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 3: to cover the bodies, to hide them. But there was

774
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 3: only like two or three like thin branches. They weren't

775
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 3: literally covering them at all, meaning.

776
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 2: The Richard Allen who's been accused and convicted, and he

777
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: was trying to cover it up with branches as like

778
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 2: you know, like oh, nineties a year. It was like

779
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: this is a bush, whereas if it had been some

780
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: sort of like you know, craft or some sort of

781
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: like Satanic rituals, Well, they said it was an Odinist room.

782
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 3: And if you know what a rune is, they're like

783
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 3: those weird letters you know that that mean things. And this,

784
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 3: you know, the SBI memorandum imply was saying that they

785
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: were runs, that they were these Odinist runs, and that

786
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 3: this was a supervice to Odin's.

787
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: It's meaning the branches were put together to sort of.

788
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 3: Spell out like symbolize, yeah, to spell out hal Odin

789
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 3: or something similar. I'd have to re refresh my memory,

790
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: but basically interested in and so you know, they were

791
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 3: you know, it is interest saying you know, again poor

792
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: you know, poor at Libby was nude and Abby was

793
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: wearing Libby's clothing, and they were significantly different body styles,

794
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 3: you know, And so it's we still don't know why

795
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 3: Abby was wearing Wibby's clothes. We have we that was

796
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 3: never explained. It wasn't part of the explanation. I heard

797
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 3: reporters talk about that. We're inside the courtroom, we don't know.

798
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 3: It's just it's very interesting.

799
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: One other thing I again outsider looking in take away,

800
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: that I have heard you say, is that Richard Allen,

801
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: who's now serving time for these he's been convicted and

802
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 2: found guilty.

803
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 3: Yes.

804
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: One thing that I always thought was interesting too, is

805
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: that he actually kind of came forward to say to

806
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 2: law enforcement at the time of these murders, hey, look,

807
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: I know there's all this talk about this murder. Oh

808
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 2: my goodness, these murderers. And by the way, I was

809
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: like walking in the area. I was actually doing my hike.

810
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 2: And he went to law enforce law enforcement to kind

811
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 2: of give his his you know, version of what he

812
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: did he saw that day he did, and then they

813
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 2: circled back to that and that used that against him

814
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 2: essentially correct.

815
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 3: He met with a resource officer at a grocery store

816
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 3: parking lot and they questioned him. He was like, yeah,

817
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 3: I was there looking at fish after I went and

818
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 3: visited my mom and something apparently he said he did often.

819
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's true or not, but it's

820
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 3: something that he said he did often. And uh, and

821
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 3: then he left and he but he said he was

822
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 3: there at a different time and that's happened. And he

823
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 3: gave the officer his phone. The officer wrote down like

824
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: his you know ESID ID and all that. But when

825
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 3: they went to arrest him five years later, that was

826
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 3: the only phone he did not.

827
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 2: In question. Did he call law enforcement or did law enforcement.

828
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: He told his wife that, oh, I was at the

829
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 3: park today, and she said, you need to call the

830
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 3: cops and tell them, and he said, okay, and he did.

831
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 3: He called them, he reached out to them and you

832
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: named met him. Yeah, And then there was you know,

833
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 3: this case was open for so long and the police

834
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 3: were asking for you know, social media people to look

835
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 3: at Bridge guy and figure out if they knew who

836
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 3: he was. Richard Allen never left the small city of

837
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: Delphi in the entire time that they were looking for

838
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 3: this man, which you know, if I had done something

839
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 3: like this, I probably would have left town.

840
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 2: He left.

841
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: It's just listen, a lot of people think he's guilty,

842
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,479
Speaker 3: and I respect that opinion. A lot of people don't,

843
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 3: and I also respect that opinion. I'm kind of in

844
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 3: the middle. I don't. I feel very uneasy about this case.

845
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: I remember speaking to you in this verdict. Time makes

846
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 3: me so you had that same experience, and I was

847
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 3: surprised to hear it. So we're going to continue to

848
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 3: dig in complicated stuff.

849
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 2: We're so glad you're here. Keep this coming, keep your

850
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: conversation points, give us some talkbacks. We'll be right back.

851
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 2: By the way, we're going to get some safety tips

852
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: about how to keep ourselves a little bit more safe

853
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 2: on the internet. Taha saying no, We'll be right back.

854
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: This is True Crime Tonight, Welcome Measure Drive Tonight on iHeartRadio.

855
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. Stephanie Leidecker here

856
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: of course, with Courtney Armstrong and body move in. So listen.

857
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,439
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the first part of the show,

858
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 2: you can always catch it as a podcast right after,

859
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: and also you can join the conversation eight eight eight

860
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: three one crime. We definitely want to hear from you

861
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: or leave us a talk back, or you could always

862
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 2: hit us up in our socials. So so much more

863
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: to cover. So body, where should we begin?

864
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 3: Okay, do you remember this mom that witnessing that we

865
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 3: talked about a little tiny bit earlier. So yes, I'm

866
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 3: going to give you the story from the beginning. But

867
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 3: we talked about this like a tiny little bit. Okay,

868
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 3: is Britney, My little little one is very upset, right y,

869
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: I'm very start tonight. Yeah, little little studio guest. So

870
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 3: Brittany Guard. She's forty six years old, Indiana mother. She

871
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: went missing and there was a suspicious house fire on

872
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 3: September thirtieth, and she went missing. She was found alive

873
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 3: after calling nine to one one from a wooded area

874
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 3: two and a half miles from her home and is

875
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: currently receiving medical treatment. She disappeared on the evening of

876
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 3: the thirtieth after smoke was seen her Bainbridge, Indiana home,

877
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: where like the Super Suss fire had occurred. Despite family

878
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 3: and law enforcement searching for a long time and there

879
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 3: was like drones, they had everything looking for her and

880
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: tracking her phone. She remained missing for over a week

881
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 3: until she called nine to one one that led to

882
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 3: her discovery. She was located alive. Last night. There was

883
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 3: like this breaking news that came out. She was found,

884
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 3: thank god, in the halls. Would nature preserve? She herself

885
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 3: called nine one one about five thirty pm, requesting help

886
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 3: to find her way out of the woods. Responding officers

887
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,479
Speaker 3: and conservation officers quickly found her following the phone call.

888
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:19,280
Speaker 3: She was medically evaluated and transported to Hendrix's Health Hospital.

889
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 3: Authorities confirmed there was no current threat to the public

890
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 3: and no indication anyone else has involved. The Putnam County

891
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 3: Sheriff's Office continues to investigate the circumstances of her disappearance

892
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 3: and of course the fire on our house. Her family expressed,

893
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: you know, obviously they were very relieved to find her,

894
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 3: in gratitude towards the teams and the community support. Like

895
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 3: the news stations were all rallying around this family trying

896
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 3: to get the word out, and the family was just,

897
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 3: you know, very grateful. It was very touching, actually, they

898
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 3: were very grateful. Now it remains unclear how she ended

899
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 3: up in the woods or where she was, you know,

900
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,240
Speaker 3: during the fire and this missing week, it's kind of

901
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 3: like a little like a.

902
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 4: Week, really long time to be gone from your life

903
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 4: for anyone, particularly a mother, particularly.

904
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 3: Right and her car and her purse remained at the house.

905
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: So October first, there was smoke reported coming from her residence,

906
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 3: and you know, this fire was labeled suspicious from the start.

907
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: They couldn't find her, and the night before the daughter

908
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: had a volleyball game that mom.

909
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: Didn't show up to, which was unusual. She missed her.

910
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 3: Jolly's bottyball game to day she disappeared. It was a

911
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 3: media concern. Law enforcement, including the Indiana State Police and

912
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: the FBI, joined local agencies in this week long search.

913
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 3: Wow she was found, it I don't know, and they

914
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 3: haven't given us any indication on what happened to her.

915
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 2: She's still in the hospital.

916
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 5: Okay, So she hasn't explained.

917
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: Kidnapped, maybe she was taken, maybe, and any of those

918
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 3: things are possible.

919
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: I think there's probably three things that are possible.

920
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 3: Kidnapped, maybe there was some kind of mental breakdown and

921
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 3: she kind of just wandered off. And I'm not saying anything.

922
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 3: I'm not you know, criticizing her, and everybody has and Listen,

923
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 3: these are heavy times, right, Like I'm on the verge myself, right,

924
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 3: you know, so because her car and her purse were

925
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 3: left at home, it's just but she had her phone.

926
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 5: She did have her phone with her.

927
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 3: She did, Yeah, she had her phone. So we're gonna

928
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 3: they and the search efforts at her.

929
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: And she wasn't trying to be like, she wasn't trying

930
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 2: to be found dead, you know, she wasn't like going

931
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 2: away forever. But well, she wasn't staging her death for example.

932
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 3: Well not that we know of it. And she's the

933
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 3: one who called nine one one, right, and we the

934
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 3: law enforcement hasn't told us what their investigatgatory angle is

935
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 3: like kidnapping, you know, runaway, your mental breakdown. We have

936
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 3: no idea because its possible something there was some maybe

937
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 3: there was some kind of home invasion and she was

938
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 3: kidnapped and they set the house on fire before they left.

939
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: You know that's possible, right, Or is it possible that she,

940
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 3: you know, wanted to get away from it all and

941
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 3: did it herself. I don't know, We don't. We have

942
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 3: no idea.

943
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 2: Talk about it.

944
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: Lose lose, yeah, I know. But thankfully she's safe. Mom,

945
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 3: has you know, a daughter and she's got kids, you know,

946
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 3: like you know, nobody wants a dead mom, right, So

947
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 3: thank god she was found saved this.

948
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, but way, it's been a long time, you know,

949
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 2: this has been a week, a whole seven days harrowing for.

950
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 5: Fa for well, that's what my first thought was, like,

951
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 5: how did did she have food? And like what is

952
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 5: she eating?

953
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 3: Well, we don't know if she was in the woods

954
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 3: the whole time. I mean, she could have been at

955
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: the day's in or something I don't know.

956
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 4: Well, particularly with the FBI and other agencies looking for her,

957
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 4: it would be somewhat surprising if she was just sort

958
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 4: of quote out there.

959
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 2: What's interesting too. Courtney and I worked on a documentary

960
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 2: called Murdered and Missing in Montana and it was basically

961
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 2: centered around a certain reservation, a Native American reservation where

962
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 2: a lot of girls had gone missing. And when the

963
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 2: show was about to air, we thought, let's get every

964
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: missing person known that's ever been missing from a reservation

965
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 2: and we'll show their pictures at the very end, and

966
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 2: maybe you know that drudge up some awareness, right And

967
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 2: legally we were not allowed to because when you think

968
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: about it, who's to say, who's missing. They were unsafe

969
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 2: and they were running away from something for their own

970
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 2: personal safety, and here you are putting it on the

971
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 2: news that they're missing, so everyone's trying to grab them

972
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 2: and find them and bring them back home, maybe to

973
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 2: where the abuse was. That's just think about missing. Nothing

974
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 2: to do with this is like a general missing people

975
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,919
Speaker 2: are allowed to go. Missing people are allowed a way missing. Yeah,

976
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 2: you're allowed to dip from your Yeah, yeah you are.

977
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 2: You are allowed to dip from your life. And moreover,

978
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 2: if you're feeling unsafe or you feel as though you're

979
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: in company that is not respecting you being there and

980
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: you feel like it's time to go, you're allowed to

981
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 2: until there's a documentary with your missing photo on it

982
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 2: and like people are trying to drag you back there.

983
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,359
Speaker 2: And I never had thought about it. And by the way,

984
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 2: that's a really good point. And legally that was something

985
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 2: that was like a checkpoint where you can't not see that.

986
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: When you think about it that way, you're like, well,

987
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 2: of course, that's why we can't do it. Even if

988
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 2: the intention was so altruistic. You know, you got to

989
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: be careful. You know, one thing you can't do person

990
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: to set your house on fire and run from it.

991
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 4: That's a lot well, but it's interesting because if you do,

992
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 4: because that causes a it can cause harm to you know,

993
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 4: property around you, and also put firefighters in danger and

994
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 4: other people in danger. Sure, but then also while it's

995
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 4: not illegal to leave your life and disappear, if then

996
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 4: a manhunt with multiple agency of resources.

997
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 2: And that reminds me of Sherri is there some me? Right?

998
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 2: So that's the infamous woman, the blonde woman who left.

999
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 2: She really basically wanted to leave her husband and she

1000
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 2: like showed up after a very long manhunt to find her,

1001
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 2: you know, beaten up and chained and all the things

1002
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 2: she was training that she was like with her she

1003
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: was branding right, that's right. And she was beaten and

1004
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: bruised and her hair was cut, hospitalized and then turns

1005
00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 2: out she was with her ex boyfriend. Oof. That's all fun.

1006
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 2: We'll see what she is well, and I hope that

1007
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 2: in this particular case that she is well and welcomed

1008
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: home and that all is right in her world for sure.

1009
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 4: This is Shoecram tonight. We're on iHeartRadio and we have

1010
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 4: been talking about Britney Guard will keep you up to

1011
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 4: date on more information on that case as it comes out.

1012
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 4: She's the mother who went missing and has now gratefully

1013
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 4: been found. So I want to transition to another story.

1014
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,560
Speaker 4: There's new Liverly's bodycam footage and it shows Charlie and

1015
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 4: Donna Adelson. I can't and they as a reminder, they

1016
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 4: are both now incarcerated following their convictions in the twenty

1017
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 4: fourteen murder for Higher plot on of Dan markel Dan

1018
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 4: Markelle was a Florida State University law professor. He was

1019
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 4: murdered outside his home eleven years ago. And this murder

1020
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 4: for Higher scheme was orchestrated by his former in laws,

1021
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 4: and so Donna Adelson is Dan's former mother in law.

1022
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 4: Charlie is his former brother in law right, and this

1023
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 4: is all led to have occurred over a custody dispute

1024
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 4: with Dan. So really just a tragedy, just a waste

1025
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 4: of this man's life. There are multiple people in prison now,

1026
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 4: it's Charlie and Donna Adelson, and then there is also

1027
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 4: the murder for Higher plot embroiled to other people who

1028
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 4: are also now behind bars. But what's brand brand new

1029
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 4: in the news is that Charlie and Donna. So mother

1030
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 4: and son. They're getting real combative and entitled in jail,

1031
00:56:55,640 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 4: and it seems like they are having a tough time acclimating.

1032
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 3: This is kind of like a semi wealthy family. I

1033
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 3: think they're used getting what they want, right, little spoiled

1034
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 3: a little bit. What were we calling her killer Granny?

1035
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 3: Is that I can't remember.

1036
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 2: That might have been something that I said. I think

1037
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 2: it was on a catchphrase. But she's kind of the

1038
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: killer granny she is.

1039
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 3: And she remember when she got sent when she she

1040
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 3: got found guilty, and she was like.

1041
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: Oh, like she was, she was so shocked that they've

1042
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 2: been sobbing. Dare they?

1043
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 3: How dare they find me guilty?

1044
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 2: Like, Granny, there's a lot of evidence stacked against you

1045
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 2: right now. By the way, Granny, everyone's turning on you.

1046
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 2: It's pretty clear that you did it. And she was

1047
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: sobbing and like desperate and really surprised, it seems when

1048
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 2: she was actually found guilty and she had like turned

1049
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 2: on her entire family, she almost threw her own daughter

1050
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: under the bus.

1051
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 3: She might in the closing arguments, Yes, by the way,

1052
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 3: she just.

1053
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 2: Her family, By the way, she's trying to defend her

1054
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: family which is what this whole like m is about

1055
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 2: to like get her grandkids closer and her daughter closer.

1056
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 2: Yet she threw the daughter under the bus in closing arguments.

1057
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 3: He did, Wendy Granny, I expect her to be arrested

1058
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 3: any day now, I really do.

1059
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Granny, well because of Granny. By the way, daughter

1060
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 2: can thank mom her granny for setting her up. I mean,

1061
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: what do you.

1062
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 4: Donna is a mess this grandma. So she in that courtroom,

1063
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 4: the outburst that you mentioned, I mean it was so

1064
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 4: sort of big and over the top that the judge

1065
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 4: had to quiet her down. Oh yeah, So here is

1066
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 4: an audio clip we're going to play, and this is

1067
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 4: of Granny's son, Charlie, and you'll hear him yelling at

1068
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,919
Speaker 4: a worker in the prison from really behind a jar,

1069
00:58:50,320 --> 00:59:02,439
Speaker 4: a slightly open door. Sorry, can you pick the six spot?

1070
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 4: Start to really congratulations.

1071
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 11: Standing here in your excuse me, I don't know what.

1072
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 4: He's on the side, like someone with a brain, Charlie Adelson.

1073
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 2: He's not creating that guard, he's buriating that guard. But like,

1074
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 2: can you imagine like having a very big life, lots

1075
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 2: of affluents, lots of access, and suddenly you are behind

1076
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 2: bars and you have to report to everyone, and yeah,

1077
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 2: that's what happens. You're like, you think you have power

1078
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 2: to throw around. No, no, it's about a real long

1079
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 2: time behind bars. It's a a long time. You gotta

1080
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 2: get in line, and he is not getting in line.

1081
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 10: No.

1082
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 4: And Donna, Grandma, she also was very upset and she

1083
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 4: was caught on video and she's arguing with jail's staff.

1084
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 4: This is after her conviction, and it was a really

1085
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 4: stark contrast. She just is is poudy and Charlie is

1086
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 4: being described as entitled and out of touch with the

1087
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 4: reality of prison life because you know, a body, to

1088
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 4: your earlier point, it was pretty privileged lives they live,

1089
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 4: for sure, So this is a big He.

1090
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 2: Was a dentist. Oh, that's right, he was a dentist.

1091
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 4: That's a dentist.

1092
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1093
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 4: I know.

1094
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 2: Sometimes get a little depressed. That is a very depressing job. Apparently.

1095
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 2: By the way, my dentist is very merry and lovely.

1096
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 2: He's doctor Zolas. He's so nice. But there are statistics

1097
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 2: that would suggest that dentistry is a depressing industry.

1098
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 3: I likes, right, It's not the favorite thing to do,

1099
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 3: but it takes.

1100
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 2: Nobody likes to find out they have brain cancer, but

1101
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 2: they still go to specialists. So like if you go

1102
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 2: to the dentist, they're making your teeth problems better. So

1103
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 2: why are we blaming the dentists.

1104
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 4: Well, my understanding is a lot of it also because

1105
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 4: I do think it's very interesting how high the levels

1106
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 4: of depression have been around happiness. And there's also a

1107
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 4: monotony for someone who is that highly trained versus, as

1108
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 4: you said, going to a brain doctor, there's less monotony,

1109
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 4: or even a foot doctor.

1110
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 2: Are you a foot doctor? Really?

1111
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know what I've heard, but listen, keep

1112
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 4: it here. I'm no dentist. We are unpacking true crime

1113
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 4: and Chill Pick Netflix's adolescens, and it's going to bring

1114
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 4: us a little bit into the world of in cells,

1115
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 4: which of course is the basis of the beginning of it.

1116
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 4: Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

1117
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1118
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanieleidecker here as always

1119
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move In. By the way,

1120
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 2: Taha and Sam and Adam are here as well, So

1121
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 2: listen True Crime and show We talked about this a lot.

1122
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 2: This is a heavy one. Adolescence was a series that

1123
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 2: we have all now watched. Hopefully you guys have as well.

1124
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 2: Please join the conversation if you have, because it's a

1125
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 2: heavy one, so we really do need the dialogue. Adolescence

1126
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 2: on Netflix kind of knocks your socks off, by the way.

1127
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 2: We're making the podcast in cells, not because of Adolescence.

1128
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 2: We have been talking about it quite a bit prior,

1129
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 2: but boy did that bring that to the front line

1130
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 2: and it really showed how important the conversation is to

1131
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 2: be having with young adults and young men especially, and

1132
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 2: it's dark. So we also have Jessica Kaplan, our very

1133
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: favorite family therapist and marriage as well. She's here Thursday.

1134
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 2: We like to do a little therapy on Thursday, so

1135
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 2: if you have any questions for her, both on that

1136
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 2: topic or any that we've covered, jump in eight at

1137
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 2: eight three one Crime Ladies, what do you think?

1138
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 3: I You know, I really wasn't sure what to expect

1139
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 3: when I started this. I had like this vague idea,

1140
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 3: but I just I was blown away by how actually

1141
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 3: could this was? You know, it did the it's just

1142
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 3: like this dynamic forbidden like taboo subject that was so

1143
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 3: beautifully told. I think, right, you know this little girl,

1144
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 3: Why don't should we give spoilers? Are we allowed to do?

1145
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 6: I think maybe we give a little spoiler alert, but

1146
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 6: I think maybe we just kind of set the stage

1147
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 6: of what it's about.

1148
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been out since March, so that feels like

1149
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 4: fair game. It's been through the awards circuit, so I'm

1150
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 4: spoiler alert if you haven't turned your TV on in

1151
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 4: nine months or however long it's been so. Adolescence is

1152
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 4: on Netflix and it's a four part British crime drama.

1153
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 4: It's filmed and executed beautifully. Each of the four episodes

1154
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:31,439
Speaker 4: is a single, continuous take. It's crazy. It's crazy, it's

1155
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 4: an acting. We don't need to get into the whole

1156
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 4: ciscal and eager Ebert because you mentioned. But what it

1157
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 4: does is it really immerses you. When you're watching it,

1158
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 4: you just feel like you're there and everything is so

1159
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 4: present and palpable and adolescence. It goes into the story

1160
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 4: of a thirteen year old boy. His name's Jamie Miller.

1161
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 4: Couldn't be picture the most normal boy you've ever seen

1162
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 4: in your life, going to school, sweetheart, nice family and

1163
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 4: he is accused of murdering his classmate Katie Leonard. And

1164
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 4: we see this in real tim we see it told

1165
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 4: through the perspective of Jamie's parents and through the detective

1166
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 4: through a forensic psychologist. And what really sort of kicks

1167
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 4: or doesn't kick everything off in the sequence of how

1168
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 4: it plays out. But what kicked all of this off

1169
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 4: is really the misogyny online misogyny. And as Stephanie mentioned

1170
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 4: earlier in doing in Cells, we have been absolutely knee

1171
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 4: deep in the manosphere and misogyny and literally, parents of boys,

1172
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 4: this stuff is being shot like out of multiple rockets

1173
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 4: at your children. You don't need to go looking for it.

1174
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 4: It is looking for them. I don't say that to

1175
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 4: fear monger. I say that because we've now spoken with

1176
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:57,439
Speaker 4: enough doctors and scientists and statisticians to prove that that's

1177
01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 4: what's happening. So again to something for us to be

1178
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 4: aware of as we collectively are raising young men. And

1179
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 4: I'm going to hop off my soapbox right now and

1180
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 4: Jess what are your Do you have top line thoughts

1181
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 4: as a therapist on adolescence or any of the manosphere.

1182
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, I do. It's really interesting.

1183
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 12: I think that there was this perfect storm of the

1184
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 12: pandemic which brought every child inside into their home for

1185
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 12: a prolonged period of time where they didn't have a

1186
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 12: lot of social contact or social outreach, and it created

1187
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 12: a lot of social isolation.

1188
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 8: For a lot of boys.

1189
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 12: And young men, which is one of the predictors of

1190
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 12: them being influenced by in cell culture is this feeling

1191
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 12: of feeling isolated, not having a lot of social support,

1192
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 12: being introverts, maybe a little socially awkward, not having a

1193
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 12: sense of belonging. For a lot of boys, that's their reality.

1194
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 12: There's an overlap, there's an overlap of are these young

1195
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 12: men or boys feeling socially isolated, not having a sense

1196
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 12: of belonging.

1197
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 8: That's number one. And then also.

1198
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 12: Usually there's a mental health issue component also that's a

1199
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 12: piece of this, that these boys are suffering with some

1200
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 12: element of depression or anxiety or other mental health issue.

1201
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 8: That also is a piece of this.

1202
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 12: And then what happens is they find a sense of

1203
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 12: belonging online in these echo chambers that exist where you're

1204
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 12: just getting constant validation around your feelings of being victimized

1205
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 12: as a boy or a young man in a culture

1206
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 12: where they start to feel like the feminist belief system

1207
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 12: is an attack on them and that they are actually

1208
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 12: the victims.

1209
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:29,440
Speaker 8: And then they go online.

1210
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 12: And if you're socially isolated, the only way you're going

1211
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 12: to find that connection is through other people like you online.

1212
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 12: So then you're just validating and reflecting and mirroring back

1213
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 12: and forth these feelings of feeling isolated, feeling victimized, not

1214
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:55,640
Speaker 12: being chosen, feeling like girls and young women have the

1215
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 12: upper hand.

1216
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 8: And I think that.

1217
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 12: Right now we're still struggling with all of those elements.

1218
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,799
Speaker 8: And it's interesting. I have three children.

1219
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 12: I have two daughters and a son, and my son

1220
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 12: is the youngest. He's eighteen, and his sisters are twenty

1221
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 12: one and twenty three. And I remember when he was

1222
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 12: around fifteen or sixteen, so this was a few years

1223
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 12: ago we were sort of just starting to come out

1224
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 12: of the pandemic.

1225
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:33,839
Speaker 8: I remember him.

1226
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 12: Posing a lot of questions to his sisters and to

1227
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 12: me about how he felt like things were unfair for

1228
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 12: boys and men. He started to just kind of push

1229
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 12: a little and question almost like this idea of chivalry

1230
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 12: is really what he was using as an example of,

1231
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 12: like why should it be accepted that men are going

1232
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 12: to pay for everything. Why should men be holding the

1233
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:14,639
Speaker 12: doors for women? You know, these kinds of questions, which

1234
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 12: I thought was really interesting, And at the time, I

1235
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 12: was just starting to become aware of this kind of

1236
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 12: like red pilling of boys on the internet, and it

1237
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 12: was alarming. It set off a little alarm bell in me.

1238
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 12: And the way I decided to approach this was to

1239
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 12: ask a lot of questions, to try not to be

1240
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 12: judgmental or punishing, but to just try to get a

1241
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 12: better understanding of where he was getting this information from

1242
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,880
Speaker 12: that was making him kind of consider these questions and

1243
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 12: pose these questions to us and why is he feeling

1244
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 12: this way? Where has he heard this? Tell me more?

1245
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 12: And I think that's really the important piece of this

1246
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:12,240
Speaker 12: is that when our boys and our young men start

1247
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 12: to show signs that they might be influenced by this culture,

1248
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 12: that the key is to just create a safe space

1249
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,919
Speaker 12: where they feel like they can, in a non punishing,

1250
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 12: non judgmental way, bring their concerns to family people that

1251
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:47,200
Speaker 12: they care about, because that's the only way to start

1252
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 12: influencing them in a positive way, to start thinking a

1253
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 12: little bit differently about the information that they're getting in

1254
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 12: these echo chambers online is to just be curious and

1255
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 12: open and for them to feel like they're not being judged,

1256
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 12: that they're You're trying to understand and have compassion for

1257
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 12: where they're coming from, right, And I think that makes

1258
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 12: a big difference.

1259
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 8: So that's a start.

1260
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, and I mean that sound. That is

1261
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 4: a great advice and would be a great start for

1262
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:23,679
Speaker 4: this really complex issue that just seems to be touching

1263
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 4: more and more boys and men do a lot of

1264
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 4: As you said, the pandemic was a bit of a

1265
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 4: boiling point and drove people in solitude and people have

1266
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 4: had a hard time coming out of it. Listen, we're

1267
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 4: talking about true crime. Excuse me, we're talking about adolescence,

1268
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 4: and we'd love to hear your thoughts. We're at eight

1269
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,639
Speaker 4: to day, three to one crime and Jess is here

1270
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:53,639
Speaker 4: for therapy Thursday, and she is helping us out on

1271
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 4: a little bit how to even begin to approach managing

1272
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 4: this proliferation of really toxic and potentially dangerous information that

1273
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 4: is coming at boys and men.

1274
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,640
Speaker 3: And I think it's in speaking about adolescence. You know,

1275
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 3: the Little Boy in the movie or the show Jamie

1276
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 3: and the little girl Katie, he does kill her, like

1277
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 3: we know that, and we don't really know, like there's

1278
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:28,600
Speaker 3: not one singular reason, but the idea is and we

1279
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 3: learned this throughout the show that Katie kind of rejects

1280
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 3: his advances. She tells him, what does she say, I'm

1281
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 3: not that desperate, and she actually calls him an insult, right,

1282
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 3: and and then he's you know, he starts looking up

1283
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 3: like things in the man of sphere and becomes kind

1284
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 3: of internally right, and he's only thirteen.

1285
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 5: That was the shocking part to me, so young.

1286
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 3: Teen years old. I found that one part a little strange.

1287
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 3: I think I think it's important for parents to, you know,

1288
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 3: teenage boys obviously, to be very aware of all this.

1289
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 3: And also, by the way, it's also interesting how the

1290
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 3: parents are portrayed in this as well. They really do

1291
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 3: a lot of self reflecting, right, Like I did feel

1292
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,480
Speaker 3: I felt so bad for them at the end with

1293
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 3: the Teddy Bear.

1294
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh it was just I mean, because this is

1295
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:21,800
Speaker 2: a little kid.

1296
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:26,640
Speaker 3: He's a little boy, right anyway, So Katie rejects his advances,

1297
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:32,639
Speaker 3: and after that rejection, he kind of internalizes it as

1298
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 3: like I've been victimized because I was rejected because she's

1299
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 3: also kind of like online bullying him a little bit too,

1300
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:43,720
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, she's kind of like making fun of him,

1301
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 3: like emojis and whatnot. And listen, this is how kids

1302
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 3: communicate now, right. We have to learn, as the elders, mean,

1303
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 3: what means mean, what what emojis mean?

1304
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 10: What?

1305
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 4: You know?

1306
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 3: I did a little cry face emoji on somebody one

1307
01:14:58,280 --> 01:14:59,600
Speaker 3: day and They're like, why are you laughing at me?

1308
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 5: And I'm like, I'm not, I'm crying.

1309
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 3: That's laughing now. And I'm like what.

1310
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 6: Even in the movie in the series where there was

1311
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 6: an explanation of what each of these emotions.

1312
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 3: And it's almost like as a parent nowadays, you have

1313
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 3: to learn new language.

1314
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 8: Yes, And I think.

1315
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 12: This, this whole situation, I think really puts a spotlight.

1316
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 8: On how important.

1317
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 12: It is to try to limit as much as we

1318
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 12: can as parents are, children's access to social media and

1319
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:47,839
Speaker 12: really phone usage. I mean, the book The Anxious Generation

1320
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 12: really highlights this point that what's happening and the effects

1321
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 12: to boys versus girls is different and influencing them in

1322
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 12: different ways. But I think about the movie Adolescens and

1323
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:14,480
Speaker 12: how the parents are portrayed as very loving pairing, stable,

1324
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 12: engaged parents.

1325
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 8: And the time that their son was.

1326
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 12: Alone with his phone in his room, alone with his phone,

1327
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 12: was when all of this damage was done. And I

1328
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 12: think many of us as parents, we can relate to

1329
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,320
Speaker 12: how much, when we really think about it, how much

1330
01:16:37,439 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 12: unsupervised time our children have on their phones on the

1331
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:46,559
Speaker 12: internet where they can be influenced in this way. And

1332
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 12: the laws around managing social media and negative social media

1333
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:58,120
Speaker 12: input just cannot keep up with the pace at which

1334
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:06,440
Speaker 12: everything is developed via social media. It's close to impossible

1335
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 12: because making laws in Congress is such a slow process

1336
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 12: to kind of try to set limitations on all of this,

1337
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 12: and so now it really is up to the parents

1338
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:18,720
Speaker 12: to do it. And it's being recommended that children not

1339
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,920
Speaker 12: get a phone until age sixteen. And if you think

1340
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:27,719
Speaker 12: sixteen is the recommended age, now that's tough. That's tough

1341
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 12: to think about for and there's tons of ramifications for

1342
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:32,680
Speaker 12: that too.

1343
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:34,799
Speaker 8: Right, kid not having a phone until sixteen.

1344
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 3: Right, We'll stick around.

1345
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:37,520
Speaker 2: We're going to continue this conversation.

1346
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 3: This is kind of an important conversation.

1347
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 2: So we're going to continue this conversation. We've got more

1348
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 2: to dig into.

1349
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:43,120
Speaker 3: Keep it right here, True Crime Tonight.

1350
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1351
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Stephanie Leidecker here as always

1352
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:04,640
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong, Body move in, and yes we have

1353
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 2: Taha and Sam and Adam here as well. True Crime

1354
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 2: and Chill night. By the way, Jessica Kaplan marriage and

1355
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 2: family therapist here in the studio to give us really

1356
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 2: some great perspective on our assignment Adolescence. Hopefully you've watched

1357
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:24,800
Speaker 2: it on Netflix. What a powerful, powerful series. Also, please

1358
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:30,160
Speaker 2: check out In Cells, our podcast also on iHeartRadio. You

1359
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 2: can download it now, Episode three, just a mirrored and

1360
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 2: it's excellent, same topic, same idea. Adolescence really does sort

1361
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:43,440
Speaker 2: of rip open the conversation about In Cells, and Jessica

1362
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 2: is kind of lending a helpful hand as we talk

1363
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 2: about this, so let's go straight toward talk back.

1364
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:54,559
Speaker 13: So I'm watching Adolescent and I have two toddlers that

1365
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:58,680
Speaker 13: just started school, and while I'm watching this, all I

1366
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 13: can think of is, oh, my.

1367
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 8: God, kids are so mean.

1368
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 13: They're out of control in this show. And that's honestly

1369
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,680
Speaker 13: how it is in some schools, like they do not

1370
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 13: have any control over any of those kids in this series.

1371
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a different it's a different world relevant in right.

1372
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 3: I mean, the Internet makes people just so mean. I

1373
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 3: don't have children. It's hard for me to talk about

1374
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 3: it like it's because I'm not a parent. But if

1375
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,840
Speaker 3: I were, I'd like to think my kids would definitely

1376
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 3: not have access to the Internet unless I was sitting

1377
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:34,639
Speaker 3: there with them at the kitchen table, if I had

1378
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 3: the privilege to do so while they're doing their homework,

1379
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 3: and that's it.

1380
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 4: Well to what age out of curiosity? And I know

1381
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 4: this is a made up scenario probably. I mean I

1382
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,640
Speaker 4: for me, probably fifteen fourteen or.

1383
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 5: Fifteen fourteen or fifteen before you let them go on

1384
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 5: the internet and read alone.

1385
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah wow, yeah.

1386
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 6: Okay, but they start. I mean, I don't have a

1387
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:01,080
Speaker 6: child either, so baby one who has kids can tell me.

1388
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 3: I know, it's a lot easier so than done. So

1389
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 3: let me let me preface it with that. I know

1390
01:20:06,120 --> 01:20:08,720
Speaker 3: it's a lot easier so than done. It's easy for

1391
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:10,040
Speaker 3: me to sit here and be like, well, if I

1392
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 3: had kids, I you know, I told yeah, because most.

1393
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 4: Schools starting way younger, but they're supervised.

1394
01:20:17,439 --> 01:20:19,800
Speaker 3: They're in the classroom with the teacher, right or no.

1395
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 5: But what about when they're home, like for homework assignments

1396
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:23,000
Speaker 5: that they have to do.

1397
01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:24,599
Speaker 3: Like I said, I would be sitting at the kitchen

1398
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:26,360
Speaker 3: table with them if I had the privilege to do so.

1399
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:31,200
Speaker 3: They wouldn't have a phone, No way would they have

1400
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 3: a phone, a tablet. They wouldn't have any of those things.

1401
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 3: They would have some sort of silly chromebook that I

1402
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 3: had control over.

1403
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 4: And that's it what you thought on this just.

1404
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 8: It's so complicate. It is it is so I know many.

1405
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 12: Factors here, but I would so first off, I would

1406
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 12: say the main goal is to try to delay as

1407
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:02,680
Speaker 12: long as you possibly can giving your children access to

1408
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 12: social media.

1409
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 4: And.

1410
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 12: Most mental health professionals are recommending that at least high

1411
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 12: school if you can, If you can make it all

1412
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:25,360
Speaker 12: the way to ninth grade without giving your children a

1413
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 12: phone that has access to social media, that's that's what

1414
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:35,679
Speaker 12: the recommendations are. That's a lot easier said than done.

1415
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 12: The biggest obstacle to that that I see is that

1416
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 12: it's hard if you're the only parent right that is

1417
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 12: putting those restrictions on your kid, because then you're grappling

1418
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 12: with your kid being an outsider. If all the other

1419
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:00,599
Speaker 12: children have phones in social media, they have snow Chat,

1420
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 12: they're all communicating through and now your kid's left out

1421
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 12: that and then you're you know, I kind of equate

1422
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:10,400
Speaker 12: it to adults and like water cooler talk, like in

1423
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 12: the office. It's like, as an adult, you want to

1424
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 12: be able to participate in the water cooler talk. You

1425
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 12: want to know kind of like what's going on in

1426
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,640
Speaker 12: the world and what the trendiest topic is like.

1427
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 8: And that creates a sense of belonging to your group.

1428
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 12: And if you're a child and you're the only one

1429
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 12: in your friend group that doesn't have a phone, you

1430
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:41,439
Speaker 12: are left out and that has a lot of negative

1431
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:45,760
Speaker 12: psychological impacts on a child. So as a parent, you

1432
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:49,519
Speaker 12: have to weigh the pros and cons of if I'm

1433
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 12: the one parent that's not allowing my thirteen or fourteen

1434
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 12: year old or these days even twelve year old to

1435
01:22:56,320 --> 01:23:01,400
Speaker 12: not have a phone, is it worth them feeling ostracized

1436
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 12: from their friend group and not included. And I think

1437
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 12: what needs to start happening is that the parents that

1438
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 12: are part of.

1439
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:16,840
Speaker 8: Their children are all part of the same friend group.

1440
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 12: That those parents need to come together and they need

1441
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 12: to decide as a group to have a pact of

1442
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,800
Speaker 12: sticking together and not letting any of those children in

1443
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 12: the group have a phone until a certain time. And

1444
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 12: that way it's more normalized. Your child doesn't feel like

1445
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:39,080
Speaker 12: they're the only one without a phone. And then those

1446
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 12: kids need to communicate and socialize in traditional ways like

1447
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:49,280
Speaker 12: we're all we all remember doing where you're actually like

1448
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:51,560
Speaker 12: calling each other on the landline.

1449
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 4: Do those even any more compassion? I don't know, that's

1450
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:56,719
Speaker 4: a good question.

1451
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 12: Maybe they're calling their parents cell phone and using that.

1452
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:03,160
Speaker 5: I'm not sure something right.

1453
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 12: Yeah, But the idea is and and by the way,

1454
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:12,800
Speaker 12: to to your point, there are so many phones now

1455
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:19,719
Speaker 12: that have been created where you can text. You can text,

1456
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 12: you can make phone calls, you can listen to music,

1457
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 12: but you can't access the internet, you can't access any

1458
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 12: social media. You know, maybe that's an option for because

1459
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:36,560
Speaker 12: I think another issue here is I think that schools

1460
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 12: are getting a lot of pressure from parents, and especially

1461
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 12: in today's world where parents don't feel secure in the

1462
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:49,720
Speaker 12: fact that their kids are going to be safe at

1463
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 12: school anymore, because that's the epidemic of school shootings, that

1464
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 12: parents want to be able to get in contact with

1465
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 12: their kids and for their kids to get in contact

1466
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:03,599
Speaker 12: with them. So that's another element here that I think

1467
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 12: there's a lot of schools that are trying to put

1468
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 12: in new rules around you no phones during the school day,

1469
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 12: You give up your phone when you get to school,

1470
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:15,559
Speaker 12: you give it up, you get it back at the

1471
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:19,479
Speaker 12: end of the day. And those these administrators are getting

1472
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 12: a lot of pushback from parents because parents.

1473
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 8: Don't like that.

1474
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 12: They want to be able to have access to be

1475
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:29,519
Speaker 12: able to reach out and text and contact their kids

1476
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 12: throughout the day.

1477
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 8: So that's another element.

1478
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 2: Of pressure here.

1479
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,920
Speaker 12: Sure where if we think about these kids having the

1480
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:39,360
Speaker 12: phones where they can still be reached via text and

1481
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 12: phones when their parents want to reach them, but they're

1482
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 12: not having access to social media, maybe that's like a

1483
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:48,920
Speaker 12: middle middle ground there that could be a compromise.

1484
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 4: Because it is it's so complicated. I mean, even are

1485
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 4: you aware not to put you on the spot of

1486
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:04,600
Speaker 4: apps like bark Bar, which alert parents if there is it,

1487
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:09,360
Speaker 4: alerts if there is a profanity. You can set different levels,

1488
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:13,439
Speaker 4: but bark will tell you, okay, there's a profanity, there's

1489
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:18,720
Speaker 4: a reference to violence, there's a reference to sex, whatever

1490
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:24,920
Speaker 4: is in your thing. But then even as a parent,

1491
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 4: my understanding sometimes the bark, the notifications themselves are like

1492
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 4: an impossibility to keep up with in reality life because

1493
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,519
Speaker 4: you know, depending upon how sensitive your settings are, a

1494
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 4: sex can be taken out of context and do you

1495
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 4: know what I mean? And then yeah, what do you do?

1496
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 12: And I understand like the the point behind that, But

1497
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:55,720
Speaker 12: on a realistic level, I feel like that is just

1498
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 12: so much to put on a parent's plate to manage.

1499
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 4: Just I think.

1500
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 12: It's it, you know, the idea of it makes sense,

1501
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:10,480
Speaker 12: but when put into practice, it's just it's so overwhelming

1502
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 12: as a parent to now you're managing all day long,

1503
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:17,680
Speaker 12: you know, every little thing that's that you're.

1504
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 2: Getting, and it's circumventable too, right.

1505
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:21,280
Speaker 8: Yes, that's the other thing too.

1506
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:23,639
Speaker 12: I've found with all of my children who are young

1507
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 12: adults now, they're so much smarter than me around all

1508
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:30,760
Speaker 12: of this. We have this joke in my family where

1509
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 12: whenever I'm having a tech issue of some kind and

1510
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 12: I go to any of my children and they fix

1511
01:27:38,479 --> 01:27:40,400
Speaker 12: it in two seconds.

1512
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:45,120
Speaker 8: I say to them, it's your synapses. It's synapses, because.

1513
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 12: Literally, like they've grown up and their brain has developed

1514
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 12: in a way where they have this intuitive understanding of

1515
01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 12: the way technology works.

1516
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 8: That we will never have.

1517
01:27:58,080 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 12: Right when our brains were developing, this didn't exist, and

1518
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:04,599
Speaker 12: so they are always ten steps ahead. So you can

1519
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:08,439
Speaker 12: try to come up with all of these fancy ways

1520
01:28:08,479 --> 01:28:11,439
Speaker 12: to manage this, but in the end, you're putting so

1521
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 12: much more work on your plate and it's exhausting and overwhelming,

1522
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 12: and they're just gonna outsmart us anyway. So I feel

1523
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:20,840
Speaker 12: like at the end of the day, it just makes

1524
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 12: more sense to have a very very firm boundary around,

1525
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 12: like you don't have a phone, or you don't have

1526
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 12: a phone with social media, or I'm taking your phone

1527
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 12: for these hours during the day, or the phone's coming

1528
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 12: in with it's in my bedroom at night when when

1529
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 12: we go to sleep, so that as a parent, you're

1530
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:44,760
Speaker 12: not putting more work on yourself to try and like

1531
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 12: manage things all day as these things come in from

1532
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 12: apps like Bark where you're trying to live right.

1533
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right.

1534
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 3: This is your crime tonight and iHeartRadio where we talk

1535
01:28:57,200 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 3: true crime all the time. I'm body moving and I'm

1536
01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:03,479
Speaker 3: here with Courtney Armstrong, ta has with us Stephanie Leidecker,

1537
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 3: and we are joined by the wonderful Jessica Kaplan, and

1538
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 3: we're talking about true our True Crime and Chill segment

1539
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 3: and the Netflix series Adolescents and kind of like talking about,

1540
01:29:14,240 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 3: you know, what we've learned from watching the show and

1541
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 3: ways to protect your kids and make them productive human beings.

1542
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 3: It's a listen, this is a nuanced conversation. Join the

1543
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 3: conversation eighty eight thirty one Crime and I know we

1544
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:27,759
Speaker 3: have another talk about Hey.

1545
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:32,840
Speaker 10: Y'all, Jethinbama decided about True Crime and Chill tonight. So

1546
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:37,599
Speaker 10: the show's adolescence. Man, I just want to say that

1547
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 10: I thoroughly enjoyed how it captured for different perspectives of

1548
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 10: people involved. So the people involved in not just the investigation,

1549
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:54,600
Speaker 10: but like the parents of the perpetrators kids like to

1550
01:29:54,760 --> 01:30:00,240
Speaker 10: really see what they go through. We don't really get

1551
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:03,519
Speaker 10: to see an inside of that, you know, So someone

1552
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 10: who's commits the crime, how it affects their family like that.

1553
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 10: Just really it was a great way of like giving

1554
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:15,360
Speaker 10: some insight into how it affects the family of someone

1555
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:15,720
Speaker 10: like that.

1556
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, really good, thank you for the talk back. And

1557
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:21,320
Speaker 3: that's kind of like the ripple effect we talked about,

1558
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:25,000
Speaker 3: Like it just the victim obviously is affected and her

1559
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 3: family is affected, but also his family they lost their son, Yeah,

1560
01:30:29,439 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 3: you know, to this horrible crime and and this you know,

1561
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 3: radical ideology. They've lost their their their child. It's and

1562
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:43,840
Speaker 3: the guilt of did we do enough? What did we do? Yes,

1563
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 3: it's something that I did or didn't do, you know,

1564
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 3: And I'm sure you know, I can't imagine what you know,

1565
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:55,439
Speaker 3: these these parents are going through. But it's just it's

1566
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:57,639
Speaker 3: just it's an important conversation to have, and that's.

1567
01:30:57,560 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 2: Why we chose this specific show.

1568
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's what stood out the most to

1569
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:04,519
Speaker 6: me with it was I had never seen that side,

1570
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 6: Like I never really thought about like the victim's family

1571
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:10,600
Speaker 6: or like how they society now looks at them like

1572
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:11,920
Speaker 6: they're spring painting things in their.

1573
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:13,559
Speaker 4: Other perpetrators family, the.

1574
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:18,200
Speaker 6: Perpetrator sorry, there perpetrators family. So it just really opened

1575
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:19,479
Speaker 6: my eyes to a whole different side.

1576
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:23,599
Speaker 11: And I think that's an important scene point that the

1577
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:30,920
Speaker 11: series makes in showing that these parents really were doing

1578
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:34,800
Speaker 11: their best. They were two parents that were doing their

1579
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 11: best and who really loved their son, and they were

1580
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:40,679
Speaker 11: working parents.

1581
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:43,439
Speaker 8: And you can't have your eye on.

1582
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:46,760
Speaker 12: Your thirteen year old child every second of every day,

1583
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 12: and if they have a phone, there's just there's a

1584
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:52,320
Speaker 12: lot of a lot of time in the day where

1585
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:57,720
Speaker 12: they can be affected by these outside influences. And it's

1586
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:04,639
Speaker 12: I think it's probably the biggest issue affecting parents today.

1587
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:09,679
Speaker 12: You need to manage their children. Oh wow, social media

1588
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:11,920
Speaker 12: and the effects on them.

1589
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 3: Absolutely so this is something that parents are constantly thinking

1590
01:32:16,240 --> 01:32:18,600
Speaker 3: about and trying to figure out are they doing the

1591
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:20,160
Speaker 3: right thing? Am I not doing the right thing?

1592
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:21,639
Speaker 4: Oh?

1593
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:25,120
Speaker 12: Wownd And it's so hard to It's just it's close

1594
01:32:25,160 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 12: to impossible as an adult to try and stay on

1595
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:32,960
Speaker 12: top of every day there's something new, there's there's another development,

1596
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:37,599
Speaker 12: there's a new app. Oh you know, it's it's really

1597
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:40,439
Speaker 12: and the kids are are always kind of a few

1598
01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 12: steps ahead.

1599
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, they are for sure. And you know, like that's

1600
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:46,000
Speaker 3: one thing like a lot of people say, is well,

1601
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:48,719
Speaker 3: oh I monitor on my kids social media and it's like, okay,

1602
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:51,599
Speaker 3: you're not really checking how many email addresses they've created,

1603
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:53,760
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, to create new accounts that

1604
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:57,679
Speaker 3: you don't know about, like the fin stuff, the fin stuff, right,

1605
01:32:57,960 --> 01:32:58,599
Speaker 3: do you know what your.

1606
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:00,160
Speaker 2: Kids Finsta is? Do you know what a Finn to

1607
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:01,960
Speaker 2: is I know you, but.

1608
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:06,400
Speaker 3: Well you do I'm asking like the general, Yeah, the general. Anyway,

1609
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:08,880
Speaker 3: this is a really important conversation. We're going to continue

1610
01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 3: to have this conversation as the weeks evolved, so by

1611
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 3: now this is thank you, thank.

1612
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 2: You, thank you, thank you so much.

1613
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:19,280
Speaker 3: Sunday we're going to have Josephcott Morgan. See you guys

1614
01:33:19,320 --> 01:33:19,559
Speaker 3: later