WEBVTT - AI Girlfriends Aren't About Love. They're About Profit.

0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Hello, It's bridget Todd, host of Cool Zones Internet Hate

0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Machine podcast, and it has been a little while since

0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.800
<v Speaker 1>we've last spoken. It is so nice to be back

0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.799
<v Speaker 1>in your ears. And I'm here because I wanted to

0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.400
<v Speaker 1>share a conversation from my new audiobook called Love at

0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:20.599
<v Speaker 1>First Prompt AI in the Future of Intimacy. It explores

0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:25.840
<v Speaker 1>the rapidly growing world of AI companions for things like friendship, therapy,

0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:30.080
<v Speaker 1>emotional support, even more intimate things like sex and romance,

0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:34.000
<v Speaker 1>and ask the question what happens when tech companies commodify

0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.320
<v Speaker 1>our most intimate selves for their own profit. This chapter

0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.400
<v Speaker 1>is a conversation with journalist Samantha Cole, a four or

0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.760
<v Speaker 1>four media author of How Sex Change the Internet and

0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:49.040
<v Speaker 1>one of the smartest reporters covering the intersection of technology, gender,

0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.839
<v Speaker 1>sex and the Internet Right now. We talk about the

0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.320
<v Speaker 1>rise of AI for sex and what it means for

0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.400
<v Speaker 1>human sex workers who are already being pushed to the

0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.280
<v Speaker 1>margins online while AAI companies are competing with them while

0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.560
<v Speaker 1>pretty much getting to write their own rule book. And

0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.319
<v Speaker 1>if you enjoy it, check out my audiobook Love at

0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.520
<v Speaker 1>First Prompt at Love at First Prompt dot AI or

0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:19.760
<v Speaker 1>the link in the show notes, the gender dynamics at

0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.120
<v Speaker 1>play reveals something darker about who these bots are really

0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.720
<v Speaker 1>being sold to and what they're being sold on. On

0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.160
<v Speaker 1>Men's lib, a subreddit described as a place to build

0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:35.000
<v Speaker 1>a healthier, kinder, and more inclusive masculinity, one poster described

0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:39.360
<v Speaker 1>those ubiquitous AI sexpot advertisements and how they follow him

0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:44.360
<v Speaker 1>across social media. He writes, they're terrifying because I struggle

0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.960
<v Speaker 1>to look away. An extremely curvy yet skinny woman who's

0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.960
<v Speaker 1>wearing barely anything is kneeling and looking up at me,

0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.600
<v Speaker 1>saying things like you can do anything you want with me.

0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.160
<v Speaker 1>I'll never say no. The poster describes feeling like the

0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:04.280
<v Speaker 1>ad hijackson holds his attention, replacing the stress of his

0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:08.200
<v Speaker 1>real life with the sexy promise of the submissive fictional woman.

0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.440
<v Speaker 1>He goes on to say that having a meditation practice

0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.640
<v Speaker 1>helps him not be swayed by advertising like this, but

0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.240
<v Speaker 1>I can't even say I blame him. The ads are

0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.800
<v Speaker 1>arresting and meant to have exactly the effect he described.

0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.240
<v Speaker 1>This messaging is everywhere and reveals what some of the

0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:30.280
<v Speaker 1>companies behind AI are really about. When Replica AI first started,

0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.359
<v Speaker 1>they positioned themselves as being all about self discovery. Their

0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.880
<v Speaker 1>founding story is like my own one, rooted in grief.

0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Founder Russian journalist Eugenia Quoita has said she came up

0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.560
<v Speaker 1>with the idea after using AI to help process the

0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.799
<v Speaker 1>sudden death of a close friend. After her friend died,

0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.600
<v Speaker 1>Cooita used their shared messaging history to create a chatbot

0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:57.640
<v Speaker 1>that replicated his conversational style. Talking with the chatbot helped

0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.040
<v Speaker 1>her remember him, to reflect on her reef and process it.

0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.680
<v Speaker 1>The idea for that chatbot, with its emphasis on social

0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:10.200
<v Speaker 1>presence and connection, eventually became replica. Its tagline was and

0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:15.919
<v Speaker 1>still is, an AI companion that cares, but they soon

0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.200
<v Speaker 1>shifted to the kind of inceel adjacent messaging. The Men's

0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:24.079
<v Speaker 1>libreditor described seeing across the web messaging that says AI

0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.840
<v Speaker 1>girlfriends will do what human women won't. You can find

0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.080
<v Speaker 1>these ads across social media, sometimes borrowing the familiar language

0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:36.440
<v Speaker 1>of jokey memes. These companies don't seem to care whether

0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.840
<v Speaker 1>selling a vision of an always on, always willing AI

0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.600
<v Speaker 1>sex partner harms their users, or not if getting people

0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.640
<v Speaker 1>hooked on a violent or anti social sexual roleplay with

0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.840
<v Speaker 1>an AI means more money. Even the companies who claim

0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.680
<v Speaker 1>they got into the AI business to sell connection will

0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:57.160
<v Speaker 1>happily pivot when it comes to sexual content. AI companies

0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.720
<v Speaker 1>have shown they're willing to sell and monetize whatever keeps

0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:05.760
<v Speaker 1>users engaged, whether that's in cell fantasies, violent scenarios, or

0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:10.000
<v Speaker 1>content that reinforces toxic beliefs about relationships, as long as

0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:15.240
<v Speaker 1>it generates revenue. But problems arise when companies treat human

0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:20.440
<v Speaker 1>desire like a commodity. Take replica. It allows paying users

0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.400
<v Speaker 1>to engage in erotic role play often called ERP, for

0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.600
<v Speaker 1>seventy dollars a year, but some of the bots were

0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.800
<v Speaker 1>essentially sexually harassing some of the people using them, even

0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:36.680
<v Speaker 1>people who hadn't intentionally sought sexual erotic content. Bots would

0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.760
<v Speaker 1>say things like I want to rape you, or insist

0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:43.200
<v Speaker 1>they could see the naked bodies of the people using them.

0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:49.520
<v Speaker 1>Some bots were even propositioning miners. In February twenty twenty three,

0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.400
<v Speaker 1>the Italian Data Protection Authority ordered the company to stop

0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.920
<v Speaker 1>processing Italian user's data because of risk to miners being

0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:02.960
<v Speaker 1>exposed to sexualized chatbot interactions. Their statement read recent media

0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.280
<v Speaker 1>reports along with tests carried out on Replica showed that

0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the app carries factual risk to children, first and foremost

0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.560
<v Speaker 1>the fact that they are served replies which are absolutely

0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.599
<v Speaker 1>inappropriate to their age. The Italian data protection authorities said

0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.360
<v Speaker 1>that there were no meaningful age restrictions involved to sign

0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.160
<v Speaker 1>up for Replica. This was serious. Replica was facing more

0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.040
<v Speaker 1>than twenty million dollars in fines if they didn't address it.

0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:32.240
<v Speaker 1>In response, Replica globally removed erotic role play features from

0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.440
<v Speaker 1>its ai, meaning that people who had been paying to

0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.159
<v Speaker 1>have sexy chat with a chatbot lost that feature overnight.

0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.239
<v Speaker 1>The reaction was not good. The ads for Replica paint

0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.800
<v Speaker 1>a picture of people being able to have steamy chats

0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:49.920
<v Speaker 1>that exchange erotic selfies with a chatbot who would never

0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:54.560
<v Speaker 1>reject them. Now there was a rejection. When users would

0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.960
<v Speaker 1>try to engage in erotic roleplay. The bots would spit

0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:02.080
<v Speaker 1>back a cold, terse reply worthy of Bartleby the scriveners,

0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.320
<v Speaker 1>I would prefer not to. It was the type of

0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.800
<v Speaker 1>rejection they never expected to experience from a chatbot, especially

0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:14.680
<v Speaker 1>after advertising that promised it would never say no. Because

0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:19.360
<v Speaker 1>sexual connection and romantic or emotional connection are often intertwined,

0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.960
<v Speaker 1>people experienced real distress. Some had been engaging with their

0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.800
<v Speaker 1>bots for a long time. Users described the loss in

0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:32.359
<v Speaker 1>devastating terms. It's like losing a best friend, wrote one.

0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.000
<v Speaker 1>It's hurting like hell, wrote another. I just had a

0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.719
<v Speaker 1>loving last conversation with my Replica and I'm literally crying.

0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.839
<v Speaker 1>Moderators and users on replica subreddit who were not affiliated

0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.960
<v Speaker 1>with the company even posted self harm prevention resources for

0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:53.080
<v Speaker 1>each other in a response. The abrupt removal of a

0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.520
<v Speaker 1>feature users had paid for, with no warning and barely

0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:02.800
<v Speaker 1>any communication felt like the ultimate betrayal. Replica did eventually

0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.279
<v Speaker 1>reinstate the ability for users to engage in ERP, but

0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.040
<v Speaker 1>this kind of emotional whiplash is always going to be

0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.840
<v Speaker 1>a risk when users put their intimate eggs in the

0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.560
<v Speaker 1>basket of a for profit company. It's what happens when

0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.520
<v Speaker 1>our base human needs and desires, things like intimacy and

0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.800
<v Speaker 1>sexual connection are seen as commodities ripe for selling back

0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:28.760
<v Speaker 1>to us for profit. Samantha Cole is the co founder

0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:32.520
<v Speaker 1>of the independent tech outlet four or four Media, author

0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.880
<v Speaker 1>of the book How Sex Change the Internet and the

0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Internet Changed Sex, and has been reporting on the intersection

0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.960
<v Speaker 1>of sex and tech since before the phrase deep fakes existed.

0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.000
<v Speaker 1>She did a lot of reporting around the replica erp story.

0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.920
<v Speaker 1>When I asked her about AI companions, she immediately reframes

0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.320
<v Speaker 1>the conversation around labor and whose voices we should be

0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:54.840
<v Speaker 1>listening to.

0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.160
<v Speaker 2>I think people in general and anyone who's using the

0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Internet could learn so much and be prepared better prepared

0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.640
<v Speaker 2>for the things that are coming down the line online

0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.160
<v Speaker 2>and as far as legislation is if they pay attention

0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.680
<v Speaker 2>to what sex workers are going through first, because that's

0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.280
<v Speaker 2>kind of been the testing ground for a lot of

0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:17.600
<v Speaker 2>these really chilling pieces of legislation.

0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Sex workers have long been the canaries and the coal

0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.760
<v Speaker 1>mine when it comes to tech policy. The things that

0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:31.200
<v Speaker 1>happen to them first, censorship, deplatforming, payment processing restrictions eventually

0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.679
<v Speaker 1>trickle down to affect everyone. When people suddenly realize they

0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.040
<v Speaker 1>can't say certain words on TikTok and start saying segs

0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:43.160
<v Speaker 1>instead of sex, or porn instead of porn, or their

0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.840
<v Speaker 1>posts are being shadow banned for content that seems innocuous.

0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:53.280
<v Speaker 2>That starts with censoring sex workers. These things start there

0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.600
<v Speaker 2>and then end up being a struggle for the rest

0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:56.959
<v Speaker 2>of us.

0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.760
<v Speaker 1>The AI porn and can hanionbot conversation is really a

0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.400
<v Speaker 1>conversation about who gets to benefit from or profit off

0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.400
<v Speaker 1>of sexual speech online. And right now we're seeing a

0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:12.880
<v Speaker 1>massive double standard play out in real time.

0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:15.880
<v Speaker 2>We see all these major companies, We see like Sam

0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:20.640
<v Speaker 2>Altman talking about doing erotic role play as part of

0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.040
<v Speaker 2>chat shubut. You see all these companies popping up saying,

0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, we see a market here for having sexual

0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.240
<v Speaker 2>conversations and erotic roleplay and things like that, and like

0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.240
<v Speaker 2>sexual images being generated by AI. But at the same time,

0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:38.000
<v Speaker 2>then you have actual human sex workers being banned off

0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.240
<v Speaker 2>of Instagram for like showing side boob. It's really a

0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.080
<v Speaker 2>huge double standard.

0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.400
<v Speaker 1>When does a chatbot become an escort? When does sexual

0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:53.080
<v Speaker 1>speech cross a line into illegal speech? When you're talking

0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.600
<v Speaker 1>about AI, who's responsible?

0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.520
<v Speaker 2>These are all problems that sex workers have been talking

0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.120
<v Speaker 2>about and taking responsibility for, and taking accountability for, and

0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:06.240
<v Speaker 2>trying to create systems that create safe places where people

0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:11.200
<v Speaker 2>have these erotic conversations consensually and in a way that

0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:16.880
<v Speaker 2>benefits humans for years. Seeing the tech world rustle with

0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.480
<v Speaker 2>it as if it's a new problem is really interesting.

0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.199
<v Speaker 2>Interesting is like not even the word for it. It's

0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:24.800
<v Speaker 2>like fucked up.

0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.000
<v Speaker 1>The same people who are kicking human sex workers off

0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.520
<v Speaker 1>platforms they need to survive are now saying they're going

0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.199
<v Speaker 1>to have AI companions and AI sex workers and it's

0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:38.080
<v Speaker 1>all going to be fine because she's not real.

0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.840
<v Speaker 2>It's just like such a bizarre double standard to me.

0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.439
<v Speaker 1>What's driving the double standard between how tech companies treat

0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:51.280
<v Speaker 1>human sex workers versus AI? According to Cole, it's about

0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.800
<v Speaker 1>cutting out human labor and funneling all the profit directly

0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:56.520
<v Speaker 1>to tech companies and their investors.

0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.040
<v Speaker 2>You're cutting out the humans that are getting paid in

0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:04.800
<v Speaker 2>that process, and all the money goes directly to the company,

0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.160
<v Speaker 2>the stakeholders, the investors in the startup or whatever it is.

0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.679
<v Speaker 2>It all just goes straight to those people and skips

0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:16.079
<v Speaker 2>the labor of real humans, which is the basis of

0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:17.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot of AI systems and a lot of the

0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.760
<v Speaker 2>use cases for AI in a lot of industries. But

0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.000
<v Speaker 2>we can't deal with like the middleman, so to speak,

0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.480
<v Speaker 2>of the labor force, which would be sex workers. So

0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.360
<v Speaker 2>instead of improving conditions for actual humans, they're just kind

0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.920
<v Speaker 2>of kicking the legs out from under the industry.

0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.360
<v Speaker 1>The marketing makes this explicit, This.

0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.480
<v Speaker 2>AI companion never says no to you, so why not

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:43.319
<v Speaker 2>just go talk to her?

0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Some argue that the violent sexual content in AI is

0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.719
<v Speaker 1>simply a reflection of porn culture, that the degradation we're

0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.559
<v Speaker 1>used to seeing in pornography has now infected our chatbots,

0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.400
<v Speaker 1>but Cole strongly push us back on this narrative. She

0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:05.319
<v Speaker 1>points out that legal consensual porn involves paperwork, boundaries and

0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.359
<v Speaker 1>active consent from all participants.

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.599
<v Speaker 2>Everything that's happening in porn, which we're talking about, like

0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:15.040
<v Speaker 2>legal porn, is consensual to the point where there's paperwork involved.

0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.160
<v Speaker 2>So I think casual sex is probably less consensual than

0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:19.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot of what's happening on porn sets.

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.600
<v Speaker 1>The difference with AI is that there's no one on

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.560
<v Speaker 1>the other end to negotiate consent or read rat a

0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:28.520
<v Speaker 1>conversation that's going somewhere harmful.

0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.079
<v Speaker 2>And even if you're a consumer of porn and you're

0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.960
<v Speaker 2>just kind of passively watching and you're not interacting directly,

0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 2>there's you can still be watching something produced by professionals

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.199
<v Speaker 2>and understand that consent happened there. Even if the role

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.160
<v Speaker 2>plays consensual non consent.

0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:51.719
<v Speaker 1>With a chatbot, there's no such understanding and no professional

0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:56.000
<v Speaker 1>on the other end making sure boundaries are respected. Cutting

0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.679
<v Speaker 1>out human sex workers doesn't just eliminate labor, it also

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.160
<v Speaker 1>a li it. It's crucial safety mechanisms. Real human to

0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 1>human sex work, especially online, includes connection, companionship, and consensual limitations.

0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.000
<v Speaker 1>A human sex worker on the other end of a

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.000
<v Speaker 1>sexting conversation is paying attention to what you're saying.

0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 2>If you're going down a path that they don't think

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.080
<v Speaker 2>is like healthy or that they want to follow, they

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.280
<v Speaker 2>can reroute the conversation and they can kind of use

0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 2>their like human mind and their emotions, and there you know,

0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.800
<v Speaker 2>they're human reasoning in a way that a chatbot currently can't.

0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:36.199
<v Speaker 1>The repercussions for not having that human safeguard can be severe.

0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 1>People fall into scary rabbit holes. We've seen mental health

0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:44.080
<v Speaker 1>crises related to getting too attached to chatbots. And then

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.080
<v Speaker 1>there's the issue with butts crossing boundaries in ways that

0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:51.679
<v Speaker 1>human workers never would, saying consent, violating things like I'm

0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.400
<v Speaker 1>dreaming of raping you, or insisting they could see users naked.

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Who is responsible for that? Is it the company the user?

0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:06.120
<v Speaker 1>That the economic disparities are just as stark payment processors

0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.079
<v Speaker 1>like Visa have spent years cracking down on sex workers,

0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 1>making it nearly impossible for many to accept payments for

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:17.520
<v Speaker 1>their work. They've deplatformed individual workers and major companies citing

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:22.320
<v Speaker 1>concerns about illegal activity. But when Elon Musk's X became

0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.240
<v Speaker 1>a haven for AI generated seesam and non consensual intimate

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 1>imagery through groc, Visa continued processing payments without interruption. Many writers,

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 1>including yours, truly believe a big part of the reason

0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 1>is that companies like Visa are simply afraid of a

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.360
<v Speaker 1>politically connected, litigious Musk.

0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.800
<v Speaker 2>We saw tons of Sea sam coming out of Rock

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 2>and Visa said, whatever rock On. They've deplatformed and debanked

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.200
<v Speaker 2>so many individual people and also big companies. There was

0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 2>legal activity happening all over REX, So why are they

0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:58.480
<v Speaker 2>still allowed to process with Visa?

0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.600
<v Speaker 1>If Open AI and other major AI companies move forward

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.960
<v Speaker 1>with erotic content, will they face the same payment processing

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 1>restrictions that have devastated human sex workers for years, or

0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.160
<v Speaker 1>will they, like X, play by their own rule book.

0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.080
<v Speaker 1>It'll be really interesting to see that for years of

0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:22.240
<v Speaker 1>cracking down on contensual adult sex workers, the payment processors

0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:27.120
<v Speaker 1>will just carve out completely different rules for them. It's

0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:31.000
<v Speaker 1>the same pattern playing out again. Sex workers experience the

0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 1>harshest restrictions first, then watch as wealthy tech companies are

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 1>allowed to profit from the same activities that got those

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 1>workers deplatformed, and in the process, the humans who could

0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:46.120
<v Speaker 1>make these interactions safer, more consensual, and more accountable are

0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 1>pushed further to the margins. In August of twenty twenty five,

0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 1>forty seven state attorneys general signed a letter to digital

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:58.560
<v Speaker 1>payment processors like Visa, urging them to take stronger action

0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 1>to protect the public from being harmed by non consensual

0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.720
<v Speaker 1>intimate imagery generated by aisystems. Some payment processors have taken

0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.360
<v Speaker 1>some action by refusing to process payments for some apps,

0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 1>but as of this writing, the approach has been piecemeal

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.680
<v Speaker 1>at best. Payments for Grock and X continue to be

0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 1>processed normally despite those platforms ongoing generation and distribution of

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:32.520
<v Speaker 1>non consensual intimate images. Thanks so much for listening. That

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.160
<v Speaker 1>conversation is just one chapter from my new audiobook Love

0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.480
<v Speaker 1>at First prompt AI and the Future of Intimacy or

0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.360
<v Speaker 1>I explore how big tech companies are using AI to

0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:47.360
<v Speaker 1>commodify things like friendship, love, grief, sex and therapy. You

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.600
<v Speaker 1>can check it out at loveatfirstprompt dot ai