WEBVTT - Kal Penn

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>back to Work in Progress, friends. This week, we sure

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<v Speaker 1>have a Whipsmartie for you. Today's guest has built a

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<v Speaker 1>career that refuses to fit in one lane, which is

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<v Speaker 1>something I absolutely love about him. From Hollywood to the

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<v Speaker 1>White House, as an actor, a writer, a comedian, and

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<v Speaker 1>someone who does great political commentary, have you guessed yet?

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<v Speaker 1>Today's guest is Cal Penn. We actually overlapped on one

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<v Speaker 1>of my first jobs ever, Van Wilder, back in the

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<v Speaker 1>early 2000s. He went on to make Harold and Kumar

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<v Speaker 1>a cult classic hit that then had two more sequels.

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<v Speaker 1>He took a break from Hollywood to work in the

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<v Speaker 1>Obama White House on youth outreach and a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of other interesting stuff you'll hear about today. In 2021,

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<v Speaker 1>he published his first memoir, You Can't Be Serious, which

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<v Speaker 1>pulls all of his worlds together and reveals so many

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<v Speaker 1>improbable stories, Hollywood frustrations, and takes some real unexpected turns

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<v Speaker 1>behind a life that has taken some pretty wild detours.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing I really appreciate about Cal is he's also

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<v Speaker 1>a deep nerd. He loves to read. He loves to research.

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<v Speaker 1>He loves to understand systems. And he has such a

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating perspective on identity and ambition and public life that

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<v Speaker 1>really makes him a person I like to look to

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<v Speaker 1>for thoughts, opinions, and dialogue. His latest endeavor is a

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<v Speaker 1>film called Trust Me, I'm a Doctor. And in this movie,

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<v Speaker 1>he plays a real person, Dr. Sandeep Kapoor, who treated

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<v Speaker 1>Anna Nicole Smith and whose life was absolutely upended after

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<v Speaker 1>she died. Not only is it an interesting story, but

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<v Speaker 1>it takes place at the height of of the early

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<v Speaker 1>2000s tabloid era and really explores how fame and media

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<v Speaker 1>scrutiny and the justice system can completely reshape a person's life.

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<v Speaker 1>And after everything Cal's seen from the backlots of Hollywood

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<v Speaker 1>to the Oval Office in DC and back again, I

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<v Speaker 1>really wanna find out what all these experiences have taught

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<v Speaker 1>him about fame, power, politics, and himself. Let's dive in

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<v Speaker 1>with Cal Penn.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>Good, how are you? I'm good.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so nice to see you.

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<v Speaker 2>Good to see you.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this is so fun and congrats on the movie.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, gosh, it's wild.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. It's a weird story. It's a crazy story.

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<v Speaker 1>It is, but I just, oh, it's great. Okay, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to get into that. But before we get into

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<v Speaker 1>the present and work and all the things, I actually

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<v Speaker 1>want to go back to the place that we have

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<v Speaker 1>in common.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Take us back to 1980s New Jersey. What was your

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<v Speaker 1>childhood like? If we could bump into Cal at eight

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<v Speaker 1>or nine years old, do you think you would see

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<v Speaker 1>yourself in that little boy?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, interesting. I've never thought about it that way, like

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<v Speaker 2>how far we've changed looking backwards. Yeah, I'm sure there

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<v Speaker 2>were some things in there. I mean, you're asking 1980s

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<v Speaker 2>elementary school New Jersey to you. I was talking to

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<v Speaker 2>some friends over the weekend and realized that I think

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<v Speaker 2>our music teacher in elementary school was a giant stoner

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<v Speaker 2>and may have been high while teaching, which was fine.

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<v Speaker 2>She was teaching music and we obviously didn't know she

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<v Speaker 2>was lovely. Um, but so I look back and think

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<v Speaker 2>of all those things. I was like, I wonder how

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<v Speaker 2>much stuff there was that I just didn't know and

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<v Speaker 2>didn't register. Um, but I loved growing up in New Jersey.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, a lot of the, you're right

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<v Speaker 2>outside New York city. Um, I'm sure plenty of people

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<v Speaker 2>watching and listening will roll their eyes at New Jersey,

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<v Speaker 2>but you are wrong. And here's what I mean. Like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you mentioned being eight or nine years old, right? You

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<v Speaker 2>take a school trip to, you're learning about dinosaurs in class.

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<v Speaker 2>You take a school trip to the Museum of Natural

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<v Speaker 2>History in Manhattan and see all the dinosaurs. Yes. And

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<v Speaker 2>I remember thinking, obviously this is very cool, but like

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<v Speaker 2>as the years went on, it wasn't until college. I

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<v Speaker 2>went to school at UCLA, so I went out west.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was the first time I realized that when

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<v Speaker 2>other kids learned about dinosaurs, they didn't have the chance

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<v Speaker 2>to go on a field trip to actually look at

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<v Speaker 2>dinosaur bones at a world-class museum. And so taking all

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<v Speaker 2>of that for granted, I was thinking about like, okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there was that. There was a lot of children's theater

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<v Speaker 2>that you could see all over New Jersey or in

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<v Speaker 2>the city. When we learned about the UN in sixth grade,

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<v Speaker 2>we just went to the UN to do a tour.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a public school, by the way. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>go to a private school or anything. Totally. So I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. I guess when I think back to those days,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of that stuff pops up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. When you were a little boy, did you know

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<v Speaker 1>you wanted to be a performer?

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<v Speaker 2>A little bit later. I think up until sixth grade,

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be an astronaut, which is why you

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<v Speaker 2>see the space shuttle behind me. And I went to

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<v Speaker 2>space camp as a kid. I did too! Did you really? Yes!

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<v Speaker 2>Huntsville or Florida? Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I went in, there's one in Idyllwild in California, or

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<v Speaker 1>at least there was when I was little.

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<v Speaker 2>Very cool, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And I just loved it. I have like such a

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<v Speaker 1>deeply emotional, I don't even want to say relationship, just

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm so emotionally tied to space and the history

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<v Speaker 1>of all things NASA. Makes me cry.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we are on the same boat. It was when

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<v Speaker 2>I found out that in those days, at least, you

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<v Speaker 2>had to have perfect vision to be a shuttle commander.

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<v Speaker 2>The sixth grade me was like, well, that's definitely not

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<v Speaker 2>going to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>That's out.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know about LASIK or anything like that. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, well, now I obviously can't be an astronaut,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'll just try to play one. Wow, I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>How did that go over when you told your parents that?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, that I wanted to be an actor? Yeah. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't go over well, I would imagine, like a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people. Yeah. Are your parents artists or actors?

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<v Speaker 1>My dad is a photographer. Okay. So a type of artist.

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<v Speaker 1>But my parents were like, absolutely, that's not a thing

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<v Speaker 1>that you're going to be.

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<v Speaker 2>No.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, very like my mom's family all came to

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<v Speaker 1>New York and New Jersey from Italy. It was very

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<v Speaker 1>much the like immigrant energy of like, you could be

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<v Speaker 1>a doctor or a lawyer or a lawyer.

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<v Speaker 2>Or a doctor. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, okay, but I think I want

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<v Speaker 1>to be an actor.

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<v Speaker 2>Totally. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't great.

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<v Speaker 2>We share that in common then because my parents are immigrants.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when they moved to the U.S., it was

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<v Speaker 2>this what they call the post-1965 wave of Asian immigration,

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<v Speaker 2>where there was a particular immigration law that changed that

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<v Speaker 2>allowed people from certain Asian countries to come, but only

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<v Speaker 2>if they had either already had a graduate degree in

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<v Speaker 2>certain fields or were pursuing one. So in the case

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<v Speaker 2>of my parents, my dad got into an engineering graduate

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<v Speaker 2>program in New Jersey, and that's why he got his

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<v Speaker 2>visa to come here. Wow. he and my mom got

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<v Speaker 2>married in India, but she had a master's in chemistry.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was like, we didn't have enough engineers or

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<v Speaker 2>doctors or things like, which is why you see that

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<v Speaker 2>like old school generation of a lot of Brown doctors

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<v Speaker 2>and engineers. There's nothing genetically inherent about it. It's just

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<v Speaker 2>the immigration law and what they were screening for. But

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<v Speaker 2>so because of that, all of their friends and the

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<v Speaker 2>whole kind of community was very, very much like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you're either to your point, a doctor or an engineer

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<v Speaker 2>or things that we know that gave us a better life.

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<v Speaker 2>I talked to my parents about this at length when

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote a book almost four years ago now. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's a memoir and it's meant to just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>be funny and light. And I love like Tina Fey's

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<v Speaker 2>books and Rainn Wilson and Mindy Kaling. And so I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted it to be very similar in tone, but then

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<v Speaker 2>the subtext is obviously stuff that's a little more serious.

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<v Speaker 2>And I remember I called my parents when I was

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<v Speaker 2>turning in my final draft. I was like, hey, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>looking for a number that I can put in the

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<v Speaker 2>book that that describes how embarrassed you were when I

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<v Speaker 2>would tell the family friends and the aunties and uncles

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<v Speaker 2>that like, you know, when I was 15 and cocky

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<v Speaker 2>that I was going to be a filmmaker instead of

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<v Speaker 2>a doctor or be an actor instead of an engineer.

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<v Speaker 2>And they both, this was over, over zoom. They were

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<v Speaker 2>both like embarrassed. No, we were never embarrassed. We just,

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't think that this was a career that anybody

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<v Speaker 2>could have, especially somebody who, was from our community. And

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<v Speaker 2>so we were scared, we weren't embarrassed. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, why do I have to be in my

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<v Speaker 2>late thirties or early forties before I actually asked my

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<v Speaker 2>parents this and actually understand that they were scared, not embarrassed.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I'm carrying that around for this long, you know? So, um,

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<v Speaker 2>so when I think back on it, I laugh a

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<v Speaker 2>lot because it makes sense. I don't have kids. So

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<v Speaker 2>the things that they've explained to me, I can understand that.

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<v Speaker 2>I can feel as far as having nieces and nephews

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<v Speaker 2>and being the fun uncle to a lot of my friends' kids.

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<v Speaker 2>But man, I can't understand how that must have really

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<v Speaker 2>been deeply scary to be like, okay, you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>do what? How? And then explaining to my parents that

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<v Speaker 2>there is a happiness quotient that doesn't come from financial stability.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if you feel like this, Sophia,

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<v Speaker 2>but I feel like whenever we get asked these questions...

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<v Speaker 2>I acknowledge like what a place of privilege I am

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<v Speaker 2>in today to be able to say, you know, go

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<v Speaker 2>follow your dreams, et cetera, et cetera. But I remember

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<v Speaker 2>way back in the day, like in college, working a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of odd jobs for those like eight years. It

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<v Speaker 2>was all like my goal was can I pay my

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<v Speaker 2>rent through my art period? Can I just, is there

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<v Speaker 2>a month where the rent and groceries and gas for

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<v Speaker 2>auditions will be covered by like a commercial or a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of days on a TV show that I might

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<v Speaker 2>be lucky enough to get?

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously our stories are different, but I really related to

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<v Speaker 1>this on multiple levels, but you talk about your book.

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<v Speaker 1>And for our friends at home, if you've been living

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<v Speaker 1>under a rock and you haven't read the book I'm

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<v Speaker 1>referring to, Cal's 2021 memoir called You Can't Be Serious.

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<v Speaker 1>Perfect title, by the way.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. I also narrate the audio book for those

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<v Speaker 2>who prefer that.

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<v Speaker 1>You sure do. And they can hear what a wonderful

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<v Speaker 1>voice you have.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>We both have voices for podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>But you write in the book really candidly about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the isms you experienced in Hollywood and the racism. And

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<v Speaker 1>it tracks for me and what you're saying about your parents,

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<v Speaker 1>where their fear probably came from. You know, you say

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't know a lot of people, maybe anyone from

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<v Speaker 1>your community who pursued this kind of a career. And

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<v Speaker 1>then you talk about how you almost lost The role

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<v Speaker 1>in Van Wilder, which was also crazy because I was like.

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<v Speaker 2>We were both in that movie! Totally, yes. Like, what

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<v Speaker 2>the hell, man?

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<v Speaker 1>How we have not been hanging out for the last

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<v Speaker 1>20 years is so new to me. Except for at, like,

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<v Speaker 1>cool political things, because we're fun like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>How did that early experience, like, do you think that

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<v Speaker 1>that changed... how you related to your career or what

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<v Speaker 1>was possible, or do you think it made you want

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<v Speaker 1>to double down and, and prove that you could continue

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<v Speaker 1>to do this?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was probably both. And that's a, it's

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<v Speaker 2>a great question. Um, I hadn't thought about it in,

0:11:45.190 --> 0:11:49.429
<v Speaker 2>in that context. Like, I think when I, when I

0:11:49.470 --> 0:11:51.810
<v Speaker 2>decided to pursue theater, I should, I should say that my,

0:11:51.830 --> 0:11:54.900
<v Speaker 2>you know, I, this public high school that I went to, um,

0:11:56.420 --> 0:11:59.410
<v Speaker 2>also had a magnet program for the performing arts, which

0:11:59.470 --> 0:12:02.710
<v Speaker 2>is kind of unheard of in public education anymore in

0:12:02.750 --> 0:12:05.150
<v Speaker 2>the States. There are only a handful of publicly funded

0:12:05.210 --> 0:12:07.770
<v Speaker 2>arts high schools or arts programs in high schools. And

0:12:07.790 --> 0:12:09.960
<v Speaker 2>ours had one, and I auditioned and got in. And

0:12:10.020 --> 0:12:11.800
<v Speaker 2>without that, I would not have had the confidence to

0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.000
<v Speaker 2>pursue this professionally. And I'd go on auditions, and a

0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.290
<v Speaker 2>lot of times, I want to be clear, by the way,

0:12:17.300 --> 0:12:19.000
<v Speaker 2>if you're not watching the video of this, I am

0:12:19.380 --> 0:12:22.020
<v Speaker 2>laughing about this, which to me is important to do. Yes.

0:12:22.700 --> 0:12:25.960
<v Speaker 2>It sounds kind of shocking by 2026 standards, especially when

0:12:25.980 --> 0:12:27.820
<v Speaker 2>you realize this was not that long ago.

0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.080
<v Speaker 1>But the early aughts were so toxic.

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.439
<v Speaker 2>They were. They were so fucking toxic. They were, yes. Yes.

0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.420
<v Speaker 2>So it was not uncommon if you looked like me

0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.339
<v Speaker 2>to walk into an audition and know that you were

0:12:41.380 --> 0:12:45.059
<v Speaker 2>reading for a part that generally was like some kind

0:12:45.100 --> 0:12:49.060
<v Speaker 2>of brown, right? Like either, so like, let's just take

0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.679
<v Speaker 2>Van Wilder, for instance, I was, you know, I was

0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.640
<v Speaker 2>reading for the part of an Indian exchange student and

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.479
<v Speaker 2>my agent at the time, wonderful woman named Barbara Cameron,

0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.900
<v Speaker 2>who was incidentally Kirk and Candace Cameron's mom.

0:12:59.920 --> 0:13:00.900
<v Speaker 1>Oh my God.

0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.179
<v Speaker 2>I know crazy. The only agent, by the way, who would,

0:13:04.780 --> 0:13:07.980
<v Speaker 2>who had responded to years and years of me mailing

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.839
<v Speaker 2>out headshots and resumes and trying to get somebody to

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 2>represent me. And she was the only one who called

0:13:13.300 --> 0:13:15.660
<v Speaker 2>and she's like, come audition for me. And then that's

0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.200
<v Speaker 2>how we started working together. But she called and was,

0:13:19.230 --> 0:13:21.510
<v Speaker 2>Her assistant called and was like, there's a great audition

0:13:21.570 --> 0:13:24.869
<v Speaker 2>for you. It's this movie called Van Wilder. Come to

0:13:24.890 --> 0:13:27.190
<v Speaker 2>the office so we can talk about it. I was like,

0:13:27.230 --> 0:13:29.589
<v Speaker 2>come to the office. This is a big deal. Well,

0:13:29.950 --> 0:13:32.449
<v Speaker 2>how about you send me the script? We had like

0:13:32.550 --> 0:13:35.610
<v Speaker 2>nascent email in those days. Send me the script and

0:13:35.650 --> 0:13:37.170
<v Speaker 2>I'll read it. Tell me the name of the character

0:13:37.210 --> 0:13:38.630
<v Speaker 2>and then I'll come into the office and we can

0:13:38.740 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 2>talk about it. I'm thinking she's like helping me prep

0:13:41.140 --> 0:13:43.679
<v Speaker 2>for the audition. And she keeps saying, just honey, just

0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:45.960
<v Speaker 2>come to the office now. Just come now. It's such

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.920
<v Speaker 2>a big supporting role. It'd be amazing. There's this guy,

0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.140
<v Speaker 2>Ryan Reynolds. He's on the sitcom, Two Guys, A Girl,

0:13:51.179 --> 0:13:54.350
<v Speaker 2>and A Pizza Place. And everybody knew Tara Reid because

0:13:54.370 --> 0:13:57.390
<v Speaker 2>American Pie had just come out. And I finally was like,

0:13:57.830 --> 0:13:59.870
<v Speaker 2>something feels off if you need me to drive to

0:13:59.890 --> 0:14:02.510
<v Speaker 2>the office. Just send me the script. I agreed. She

0:14:02.530 --> 0:14:03.770
<v Speaker 2>agreed to send me the script. I said, what's the

0:14:03.790 --> 0:14:06.449
<v Speaker 2>name of the character? She was like, okay, you're reading

0:14:06.550 --> 0:14:12.040
<v Speaker 2>for a character named Taj Mahal. And I hung up

0:14:12.270 --> 0:14:14.819
<v Speaker 2>on her. And she called back. She's like, I had

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.040
<v Speaker 2>a feeling you were going to hang up. And I

0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:20.000
<v Speaker 2>was like, yeah, look. I didn't graduate from the UCLA

0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.980
<v Speaker 2>School of Theater, Film, and Television to play a character

0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.500
<v Speaker 2>named after a building. He's named. He doesn't even have

0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:27.300
<v Speaker 2>a human name.

0:14:27.330 --> 0:14:28.730
<v Speaker 1>It's crazy.

0:14:29.170 --> 0:14:32.950
<v Speaker 2>And she was like, listen, read it and let's talk

0:14:33.070 --> 0:14:36.090
<v Speaker 2>because I think one of the things you'll find is, yes,

0:14:36.150 --> 0:14:38.050
<v Speaker 2>you are worried about all the stereotypes that are in

0:14:38.070 --> 0:14:41.460
<v Speaker 2>your head, Cal. They probably exist in this script. Mm-hmm.

0:14:41.980 --> 0:14:45.140
<v Speaker 2>but also if this character was removed from the story,

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.780
<v Speaker 2>the plot wouldn't advance from start to finish. And one

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.720
<v Speaker 2>of my big, one of the big challenges with stereotypes,

0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.660
<v Speaker 2>I think for regardless, whether it's, it's any community really that,

0:14:55.780 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 2>that has sort of dealt with them over the years

0:14:58.790 --> 0:15:03.690
<v Speaker 2>is that often they, they seem to exist when writers

0:15:03.750 --> 0:15:07.989
<v Speaker 2>are lazy. And so the butt of those types of jokes,

0:15:08.090 --> 0:15:11.630
<v Speaker 2>if they were removed, nothing would really change in terms

0:15:11.670 --> 0:15:15.070
<v Speaker 2>of the plot, right. Of these, of these projects. But

0:15:15.250 --> 0:15:18.250
<v Speaker 2>there's the rarity where like multiple things are true. Like

0:15:18.590 --> 0:15:21.360
<v Speaker 2>this could be a stereotype, but also it advances the

0:15:21.380 --> 0:15:23.420
<v Speaker 2>plot of the film. And I read it and I

0:15:23.420 --> 0:15:26.040
<v Speaker 2>called him, called a bunch of people, called some mentors

0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:27.760
<v Speaker 2>of mine. He's like, what do you think I should do?

0:15:27.780 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 2>Should I audition for this? And they all were like,

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.110
<v Speaker 2>you really, you should, because having a supporting lead really,

0:15:34.450 --> 0:15:36.670
<v Speaker 2>In a studio, comedy on your resume would really make

0:15:36.710 --> 0:15:39.270
<v Speaker 2>a big difference. Your agent can pitch you for more things.

0:15:39.610 --> 0:15:43.670
<v Speaker 2>So I decided to audition. And I remember the final callback.

0:15:44.370 --> 0:15:46.410
<v Speaker 2>And for people who don't know the story, it's like, yeah,

0:15:46.430 --> 0:15:48.860
<v Speaker 2>he had like a stereotypical accent and the character had

0:15:48.910 --> 0:15:51.840
<v Speaker 2>moved from India to go to college in America just

0:15:51.860 --> 0:15:54.580
<v Speaker 2>because he wanted to get laid. Now, let's just acknowledge

0:15:54.620 --> 0:15:57.070
<v Speaker 2>that this was every movie in.

0:15:57.290 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 1>The early 2000s that's all they were about.

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I am not lamenting that one way or the other

0:16:02.700 --> 0:16:04.580
<v Speaker 2>i'll also acknowledge because people ask me this all the

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 2>time and you're right um yes there was clearly a

0:16:09.860 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 2>more than fair amount of misogyny in these movies like

0:16:12.590 --> 0:16:14.869
<v Speaker 2>this is all i'm not by telling my slice of

0:16:14.910 --> 0:16:16.650
<v Speaker 2>life story i'm not trying to ignore all of the

0:16:16.690 --> 0:16:19.330
<v Speaker 2>other things that people may find challenging about these movies.

0:16:19.590 --> 0:16:23.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah and to be clear hindsight is 2020. Like none

0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.520
<v Speaker 1>of this was atypical at the time.

0:16:25.580 --> 0:16:26.100
<v Speaker 2>No, exactly.

0:16:26.140 --> 0:16:29.670
<v Speaker 1>Which speaks to culture at the time. And now we

0:16:29.770 --> 0:16:33.710
<v Speaker 1>all go, yeah, one of our first movies was, I mean,

0:16:33.770 --> 0:16:36.010
<v Speaker 1>we were funny and also, ooh.

0:16:37.410 --> 0:16:39.610
<v Speaker 2>Dude, people ask me this all the time. I do

0:16:41.630 --> 0:16:45.060
<v Speaker 2>college lectures every now and then. And inevitably there will

0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:50.970
<v Speaker 2>be some very well-meaning– student who was born in 2007

0:16:50.970 --> 0:16:54.910
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, who will say, so how much do you

0:16:54.990 --> 0:16:59.580
<v Speaker 2>regret doing that movie Van Wilder? How embarrassing. How much

0:16:59.620 --> 0:17:02.060
<v Speaker 2>do you regret it? And I'm just like, first of all,

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 2>you're fucking welcome. You're welcome. Okay. I have a career

0:17:06.820 --> 0:17:10.400
<v Speaker 2>because of that. So A, you're welcome. B, if you're

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.890
<v Speaker 2>actually asking me in a 2026 lens, do I wish

0:17:12.930 --> 0:17:15.850
<v Speaker 2>that one of my first movies instead Was me jumping

0:17:15.890 --> 0:17:18.270
<v Speaker 2>out of a helicopter, saving all the good guys and

0:17:18.310 --> 0:17:20.909
<v Speaker 2>like shooting all the bad guys? Yes. But I don't

0:17:20.930 --> 0:17:23.209
<v Speaker 2>look like Chris Helmsworth. And so that's just not going

0:17:23.230 --> 0:17:25.560
<v Speaker 2>to happen for me. Right. And I'm aware of that, right?

0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.290
<v Speaker 2>Unless I write it now. So, so it's like, you know, the,

0:17:29.460 --> 0:17:32.300
<v Speaker 2>I think the questions that we ask today are with

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.060
<v Speaker 2>the presumption that we have some sort of a magic

0:17:34.100 --> 0:17:37.770
<v Speaker 2>wander time machine and we don't. So instead I like

0:17:37.790 --> 0:17:39.570
<v Speaker 2>to talk about these stories and laugh at them because

0:17:39.590 --> 0:17:42.900
<v Speaker 2>they kind of celebrate both the progress that has been

0:17:42.940 --> 0:17:45.639
<v Speaker 2>made and also the stuff that we, the work that

0:17:45.660 --> 0:17:48.760
<v Speaker 2>we still need to do. Exactly. So I show up,

0:17:48.859 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I show up at the final audition for Van Wilder.

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:52.580
<v Speaker 2>All I know is it's going to be me and

0:17:52.619 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 2>another guy auditioning for the part of this Indian exchange student.

0:17:55.619 --> 0:17:58.470
<v Speaker 2>And we're reading with Ryan Reynolds, who is lovely by

0:17:58.490 --> 0:18:02.270
<v Speaker 2>the way, I should say. And I go into the

0:18:02.310 --> 0:18:04.210
<v Speaker 2>waiting room and the other guy's already there. And I

0:18:04.250 --> 0:18:07.330
<v Speaker 2>remember thinking before I walked in, I was like, who

0:18:07.410 --> 0:18:09.390
<v Speaker 2>is it? Like there are a fair amount of Brown

0:18:09.470 --> 0:18:13.330
<v Speaker 2>actors in Hollywood. I just, I guess maybe there's one

0:18:13.350 --> 0:18:15.570
<v Speaker 2>who I don't know because, you know, you're on text

0:18:15.609 --> 0:18:18.150
<v Speaker 2>chains and stuff and share projects and things like that.

0:18:18.570 --> 0:18:21.649
<v Speaker 2>So I walk in and it's a white dude in

0:18:21.710 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>brown face who has already signed in. And he's sitting

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:31.080
<v Speaker 2>in the waiting room. And I had the following thoughts.

0:18:31.100 --> 0:18:35.670
<v Speaker 2>I had the following thoughts. My first thought was, oh, shit.

0:18:36.190 --> 0:18:36.910
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:18:37.290 --> 0:18:40.989
<v Speaker 2>Okay. You've painted your face brown. And I'm like, okay.

0:18:41.430 --> 0:18:45.100
<v Speaker 2>All right. So, like, did your agent tell you to

0:18:45.140 --> 0:18:48.119
<v Speaker 2>paint your face brown? And if you did, like, did

0:18:48.140 --> 0:18:50.840
<v Speaker 2>this dude do it at home or did he do

0:18:50.859 --> 0:18:53.960
<v Speaker 2>it in the parking lot, right? Like, before he came up?

0:18:54.460 --> 0:18:55.860
<v Speaker 2>And then I was like, if he did it at home,

0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.580
<v Speaker 2>did he statistically have a higher likelihood of getting pulled

0:18:58.660 --> 0:19:01.459
<v Speaker 2>over by the cops or did he not? Yeah. And

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm just all the things going through my head. And

0:19:03.180 --> 0:19:05.330
<v Speaker 2>then I'm like, Ooh, I wonder how his accent is.

0:19:05.350 --> 0:19:07.389
<v Speaker 2>It's like, is it? Cause he's going to go in

0:19:07.430 --> 0:19:08.550
<v Speaker 2>there and he's going to do one. Right.

0:19:08.650 --> 0:19:08.950
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:19:09.210 --> 0:19:11.310
<v Speaker 2>And then also, I, I, I don't know if you

0:19:11.369 --> 0:19:13.389
<v Speaker 2>relate to this in the same way, but I, I really,

0:19:13.910 --> 0:19:17.889
<v Speaker 2>even in those days sort of was like, my beef

0:19:17.990 --> 0:19:23.810
<v Speaker 2>is not with this kid because we're desperate man as actors.

0:19:24.609 --> 0:19:26.450
<v Speaker 2>You just want to work. You want to get that

0:19:26.530 --> 0:19:29.070
<v Speaker 2>credit on your resume. And of course I wasn't like

0:19:29.190 --> 0:19:32.300
<v Speaker 2>thrilled that he was doing this, But I remember just

0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 2>being like, this is a symptom of an institutional challenge

0:19:36.780 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 2>and a problem. And also, in my head, I didn't

0:19:40.820 --> 0:19:43.220
<v Speaker 2>say any of this, obviously. It was like, buddy, you

0:19:43.290 --> 0:19:47.750
<v Speaker 2>can audition for the new WBCW show where you're playing

0:19:47.850 --> 0:19:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Shane from Iowa. Yeah. Gets all the girls. I was like,

0:19:53.010 --> 0:19:53.830
<v Speaker 2>this is mine.

0:19:54.350 --> 0:19:56.109
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is for me. Thank you.

0:19:56.130 --> 0:19:58.409
<v Speaker 2>I am booking this audition. And by the way, if

0:19:58.890 --> 0:20:00.810
<v Speaker 2>I get it, I am going to do it. Like

0:20:00.890 --> 0:20:03.200
<v Speaker 2>all of the hesitation that I had about. whether I

0:20:03.260 --> 0:20:04.719
<v Speaker 2>should or shouldn't do it. If I got it, like

0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.590
<v Speaker 2>all that went out the window, um, fully gone. But

0:20:07.609 --> 0:20:10.050
<v Speaker 2>then also what was very cool about the audition. And then,

0:20:10.290 --> 0:20:15.030
<v Speaker 2>and then later, um, was like, you know, uh, Ryan

0:20:15.050 --> 0:20:17.570
<v Speaker 2>asked me to improvise in the audition. He's like, you're

0:20:17.590 --> 0:20:19.700
<v Speaker 2>very funny. Can you, you want to just like run

0:20:19.740 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 2>the scene? Like we'll, we'll just get the bare bones.

0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.900
<v Speaker 2>And I have, you know, like I'm a trained actor.

0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:26.900
<v Speaker 2>I have a background in improv and that was just

0:20:26.940 --> 0:20:29.520
<v Speaker 2>such a fun experience. And we kind of continued that

0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.139
<v Speaker 2>a bunch while we were, uh, making the, making the movie.

0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.540
<v Speaker 2>So there were things that obviously I, you know, I

0:20:35.580 --> 0:20:38.290
<v Speaker 2>had chatted with the producers and changed and tried to

0:20:38.369 --> 0:20:40.960
<v Speaker 2>advocate for certain things, you know, out of a list

0:20:41.010 --> 0:20:42.689
<v Speaker 2>of a hundred, maybe you only get 20 of the

0:20:42.730 --> 0:20:45.570
<v Speaker 2>things that you want, but then the other artistic stuff

0:20:45.590 --> 0:20:47.949
<v Speaker 2>that you can add was something that I, I was

0:20:47.970 --> 0:20:50.649
<v Speaker 2>very grateful for too, but it's crazy. It's crazy to

0:20:50.690 --> 0:20:51.189
<v Speaker 2>think about now.

0:20:51.230 --> 0:20:51.449
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:20:51.710 --> 0:20:52.070
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:20:52.930 --> 0:20:55.030
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a

0:20:55.050 --> 0:20:59.770
<v Speaker 1>word from our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.460
<v Speaker 1>There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support,

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<v Speaker 1>And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a

0:21:21.290 --> 0:21:24.890
<v Speaker 1>few others worth questioning too. Something I know is true

0:21:24.950 --> 0:21:27.890
<v Speaker 1>for me, and so many women I know, is that

0:21:27.950 --> 0:21:33.210
<v Speaker 1>we inherit a whole lot of unwritten rules. We absorb

0:21:33.310 --> 0:21:37.850
<v Speaker 1>things from culture and society and messaging. And for us,

0:21:38.230 --> 0:21:42.530
<v Speaker 1>a lot of them feel contradictory. Be ambitious, but don't

0:21:42.550 --> 0:21:45.750
<v Speaker 1>be intimidating. Be there for everyone, but still make time

0:21:45.790 --> 0:21:48.600
<v Speaker 1>for yourself and have a 12-step self-care routine.

0:21:48.930 --> 0:21:49.210
<v Speaker 2>What?

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:52.540
<v Speaker 1>You're supposed to have it all together, but you can't

0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:56.060
<v Speaker 1>look like you're trying too hard. It makes me feel

0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.640
<v Speaker 1>like my head is spinning And the things we see

0:21:58.660 --> 0:22:02.260
<v Speaker 1>in our feed all day tend to reinforce some of them.

0:22:02.820 --> 0:22:05.159
<v Speaker 1>I catch myself thinking, well, everyone else seems to be

0:22:05.220 --> 0:22:08.479
<v Speaker 1>able to do this. Everyone else is keeping up and

0:22:09.100 --> 0:22:11.970
<v Speaker 1>drinking all the water and checking off everything on their

0:22:12.010 --> 0:22:14.450
<v Speaker 1>to-do list. And shouldn't I be able to also? I

0:22:15.250 --> 0:22:19.189
<v Speaker 1>have to remind myself that it's not a zero-sum game

0:22:19.210 --> 0:22:23.369
<v Speaker 1>and also that I can't compare my insides to everyone

0:22:23.390 --> 0:22:27.150
<v Speaker 1>else's outsides that I'm seeing online. I would never want

0:22:27.190 --> 0:22:29.820
<v Speaker 1>that for a friend, so why do I impose that

0:22:29.859 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of pressure on myself, you know? Those are the

0:22:32.859 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>kinds of stories that I think therapy can really help

0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 1>us unpack and then rewrite, which is why I'm excited

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.650
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<v Speaker 1>betterhelp.com slash permission dash project to explore your payment options.

0:23:09.109 --> 0:23:19.330
<v Speaker 1>That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash permission dash project. It's

0:23:19.369 --> 0:23:23.280
<v Speaker 1>interesting to realize that even in the context of time

0:23:23.340 --> 0:23:27.550
<v Speaker 1>where there are things you might or do cringe at,

0:23:27.930 --> 0:23:30.790
<v Speaker 1>there was still so much good about it. You know,

0:23:31.090 --> 0:23:33.830
<v Speaker 1>I feel that. It's like, I was playing like the

0:23:33.869 --> 0:23:37.149
<v Speaker 1>stereotypical hot cheerleader on my first show. And yeah, I

0:23:37.210 --> 0:23:40.729
<v Speaker 1>made her into something else over the years, but it's

0:23:40.780 --> 0:23:44.880
<v Speaker 1>like the, the opportunity was the opportunity. There weren't, there

0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:48.080
<v Speaker 1>weren't the opportunities there are now. And that's just what

0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:50.840
<v Speaker 1>it is. You know, when I think about the sort

0:23:50.859 --> 0:23:53.620
<v Speaker 1>of the trajectory of your career, like, you know, studio

0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.900
<v Speaker 1>comedy is a huge leg up for you. Then obviously

0:23:56.940 --> 0:23:59.750
<v Speaker 1>Harold and Kumar like changed everything.

0:23:59.770 --> 0:23:59.869
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:24:00.660 --> 0:24:04.200
<v Speaker 1>What was it about that movie when you read it? Like,

0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:07.590
<v Speaker 1>did you know at the time it would be huge

0:24:07.770 --> 0:24:10.250
<v Speaker 1>or did you feel like it was another step in

0:24:10.290 --> 0:24:13.649
<v Speaker 1>the right direction in terms of the next job?

0:24:14.230 --> 0:24:18.430
<v Speaker 2>I read that script and laughed harder than I had

0:24:19.380 --> 0:24:22.500
<v Speaker 2>laughed at reading a script. And I'm, I generally, when

0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:26.699
<v Speaker 2>I read, I don't, um, I don't emote out loud. Yeah. Like,

0:24:27.070 --> 0:24:30.310
<v Speaker 2>I'll laugh, but in my head, I was laughing out loud,

0:24:30.830 --> 0:24:35.320
<v Speaker 2>like verbally laughing out loud at this script. Um, and

0:24:35.380 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 2>I remember actually, so John Hurwitz and Hayden Schlossberg, the

0:24:38.020 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>two guys who wrote Harold and Kumar go to White Castle,

0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:41.419
<v Speaker 2>all the three Harold and Kumar movies.

0:24:41.660 --> 0:24:44.149
<v Speaker 1>Um, and a fourth, if we get casual two sequels

0:24:44.230 --> 0:24:45.470
<v Speaker 1>and maybe another on the way.

0:24:46.780 --> 0:24:50.420
<v Speaker 2>So they, uh, I met them before they sold the script.

0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:52.960
<v Speaker 2>It was a couple months before I think, and there was, um,

0:24:53.420 --> 0:24:55.639
<v Speaker 2>we had a mutual friend who had a birthday party

0:24:55.830 --> 0:24:57.980
<v Speaker 2>and that friend was like, Hey, and by the way,

0:24:58.030 --> 0:25:01.149
<v Speaker 2>these were all like, they were assistants or something at

0:25:01.190 --> 0:25:03.750
<v Speaker 2>the time trying to get their screenwriting career up and running.

0:25:04.550 --> 0:25:06.889
<v Speaker 2>And our friend was like, Hey, you should, um, you

0:25:06.910 --> 0:25:10.750
<v Speaker 2>should meet John and Hayden. They're, they're, uh, they're good guys. Um,

0:25:11.550 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 2>they're big fans of yours from Van Wilder. Uh, And

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:16.770
<v Speaker 2>you should hear about the script they have. They give

0:25:16.790 --> 0:25:19.310
<v Speaker 2>me just the bare bones about the story. And I

0:25:19.330 --> 0:25:21.369
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, man, this is amazing. I'd love to

0:25:21.430 --> 0:25:24.230
<v Speaker 2>read it. You're never going to sell it in Hollywood

0:25:24.250 --> 0:25:28.470
<v Speaker 2>to a studio. But maybe we can all find... Venture

0:25:28.510 --> 0:25:31.550
<v Speaker 2>Capital was booming in the Bay Area. And maybe we

0:25:31.570 --> 0:25:34.169
<v Speaker 2>can find the right people to invest in this and

0:25:34.210 --> 0:25:36.399
<v Speaker 2>do a low-budget version. And they looked at me like

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:38.200
<v Speaker 2>I was crazy. And they were like, no, no, no.

0:25:38.260 --> 0:25:42.980
<v Speaker 2>We're going to sell this to a studio. We're making...

0:25:43.270 --> 0:25:46.350
<v Speaker 2>we're making a movie. And I was like, look, I, I, um,

0:25:47.230 --> 0:25:48.540
<v Speaker 2>let me read it. Send it to me. They sent

0:25:48.580 --> 0:25:50.100
<v Speaker 2>it to me that week. I read it. Like I said,

0:25:50.140 --> 0:25:52.840
<v Speaker 2>laughed out loud, called them, reiterated that they were not

0:25:52.859 --> 0:25:54.740
<v Speaker 2>going to sell this to a major studio because it,

0:25:54.960 --> 0:26:00.640
<v Speaker 2>it featured two Asian American men in lead roles in

0:26:00.660 --> 0:26:03.070
<v Speaker 2>a studio comedy. And I just, up until that point,

0:26:03.310 --> 0:26:06.810
<v Speaker 2>everything I had been told was like, that just doesn't

0:26:06.850 --> 0:26:09.830
<v Speaker 2>happen or it's not going to happen. And they go, Cal, um,

0:26:10.470 --> 0:26:12.929
<v Speaker 2>we are making a movie called Harold and Kumar go

0:26:12.950 --> 0:26:14.869
<v Speaker 2>to White Castle. I understand that you've had friends who

0:26:14.910 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 2>have written scripts with performers of color, characters of color,

0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:19.720
<v Speaker 2>and they were told that somebody would buy it as

0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.020
<v Speaker 2>long as they changed them to make them white characters.

0:26:22.500 --> 0:26:24.379
<v Speaker 2>We are making Harold and Kumar go to White Castle.

0:26:24.420 --> 0:26:26.879
<v Speaker 2>We are not making David and Jason go to McDonald's.

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:29.500
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, that's hilarious.

0:26:29.700 --> 0:26:30.440
<v Speaker 1>All right.

0:26:30.530 --> 0:26:32.430
<v Speaker 2>Sure. And then sure enough, a couple of weeks later,

0:26:32.470 --> 0:26:36.010
<v Speaker 2>they sold the script to a company that had a

0:26:36.030 --> 0:26:39.650
<v Speaker 2>deal with the new line and, and, and, I guess Lionsgate,

0:26:39.690 --> 0:26:42.050
<v Speaker 2>Warner Brothers, depending on who bought who at which time.

0:26:42.430 --> 0:26:42.830
<v Speaker 1>You're right.

0:26:43.810 --> 0:26:47.540
<v Speaker 2>But it was, and then began this really long process

0:26:47.580 --> 0:26:51.200
<v Speaker 2>of auditioning because they auditioned people, you know, obviously in

0:26:51.220 --> 0:26:55.240
<v Speaker 2>New York and LA, but Vancouver and London and South Africa.

0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:58.260
<v Speaker 2>So we didn't know, and it didn't have a huge

0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:00.460
<v Speaker 2>budget when we made it. We thought the script was

0:27:00.500 --> 0:27:04.850
<v Speaker 2>really funny. The movie comes out and it, everybody forgets

0:27:04.900 --> 0:27:07.030
<v Speaker 2>it really tanked at the box office. Like it did

0:27:07.070 --> 0:27:09.850
<v Speaker 2>not do well at all. And it got pulled after

0:27:09.890 --> 0:27:12.490
<v Speaker 2>its initial, whatever, it's a week or two commitment and

0:27:12.570 --> 0:27:16.650
<v Speaker 2>it's run. And then all the calls that I had

0:27:16.690 --> 0:27:19.050
<v Speaker 2>with like my then manager and agent were like, yeah,

0:27:19.090 --> 0:27:21.189
<v Speaker 2>don't expect the phone to ring for a while. You know,

0:27:21.230 --> 0:27:24.540
<v Speaker 2>you guys kind of bombed this movie. And the talk

0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:26.760
<v Speaker 2>around town is, see, we told you that two Asian

0:27:26.780 --> 0:27:30.280
<v Speaker 2>American men can't open a studio comedy, right? And in

0:27:30.340 --> 0:27:33.280
<v Speaker 2>my head, I was like, I feel like this is

0:27:33.380 --> 0:27:36.940
<v Speaker 2>not true. I feel like, They were underestimating their audience,

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:39.240
<v Speaker 2>but I guess they're right. Like if people didn't show

0:27:39.300 --> 0:27:41.960
<v Speaker 2>up in the theaters, maybe nobody wants to see a

0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:45.190
<v Speaker 2>movie like this unless the characters are white or black.

0:27:46.930 --> 0:27:48.970
<v Speaker 2>And then two months, I think it was two months later,

0:27:49.010 --> 0:27:51.449
<v Speaker 2>the movie comes out on HBO and on DVD with

0:27:51.510 --> 0:27:55.650
<v Speaker 2>zero marketing budget. And fans just found it on their own. Yes.

0:27:55.970 --> 0:27:58.030
<v Speaker 2>And they bought the DVD and it was not just

0:27:58.070 --> 0:28:00.409
<v Speaker 2>the New York's and LA's and San Francisco's. It was

0:28:00.450 --> 0:28:05.670
<v Speaker 2>like Oklahoma and Iowa and the deep South. And people

0:28:05.730 --> 0:28:08.620
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed this movie and bought it in droves because they just,

0:28:09.020 --> 0:28:10.859
<v Speaker 2>it reminded them of friends of theirs and they wanted

0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 2>to go on this kind of funny journey with them.

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 2>And that was really redemptive, I think for us, because

0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:19.140
<v Speaker 2>it was a redemptive because I'm like, see, we can

0:28:19.220 --> 0:28:23.710
<v Speaker 2>open a movie and have it do well. And second,

0:28:23.750 --> 0:28:26.850
<v Speaker 2>it also just, I mean, I don't know how you feel,

0:28:26.890 --> 0:28:29.970
<v Speaker 2>but I try to separate like my art from the

0:28:30.010 --> 0:28:32.090
<v Speaker 2>politics of things, but it was one of the first

0:28:32.130 --> 0:28:35.490
<v Speaker 2>feelings I had where I felt redemption that the way

0:28:35.580 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 2>that Hollywood then was dumbing down its audience and saying

0:28:40.580 --> 0:28:44.060
<v Speaker 2>white audiences don't want to see two funny people of color.

0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:46.180
<v Speaker 2>I just, in my heart felt like that was wrong.

0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:49.270
<v Speaker 2>And to prove that wrong, Was really great because we

0:28:49.290 --> 0:28:51.950
<v Speaker 2>all love to laugh. And I'm glad that those movies

0:28:51.990 --> 0:28:56.140
<v Speaker 2>have a huge fan base of people across the political spectrum.

0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Like the beauty that's left in what we do that

0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:02.520
<v Speaker 2>is still there in such a polarizing world. Not to

0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:04.640
<v Speaker 2>make Harold and Kumar more than it should be about,

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:07.160
<v Speaker 2>but it's a good feeling to know that, you know,

0:29:07.180 --> 0:29:08.720
<v Speaker 2>that that all exists.

0:29:09.260 --> 0:29:11.140
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's making it more. I think it's

0:29:11.200 --> 0:29:15.960
<v Speaker 1>just being aware of you know, every sort of layer

0:29:16.180 --> 0:29:19.040
<v Speaker 1>of the systems that we live in. For our friends

0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:22.890
<v Speaker 1>at home, I'm pretty sure the first time we had

0:29:23.670 --> 0:29:29.710
<v Speaker 1>overlap in the political system was in 08. But I

0:29:29.770 --> 0:29:33.630
<v Speaker 1>remember being at a specific event with you in 2012.

0:29:33.610 --> 0:29:40.560
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know, your whole thing you know, the

0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:44.160
<v Speaker 1>fact that you not only were really dedicated to trying

0:29:44.320 --> 0:29:48.610
<v Speaker 1>to get young people to care about progressive values and,

0:29:48.650 --> 0:29:51.190
<v Speaker 1>you know, policies that would actually benefit them, but like

0:29:51.610 --> 0:29:53.850
<v Speaker 1>you actually took a break from acting and went and

0:29:53.870 --> 0:29:58.110
<v Speaker 1>worked in the white house. Like, Hello? How did the

0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:02.690
<v Speaker 1>whole thing happen for you? How did you even do that?

0:30:03.210 --> 0:30:05.870
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you the kind of, I guess, semi-abridged. How

0:30:05.930 --> 0:30:10.050
<v Speaker 2>are we on time? Like the TLDR? I tend to over-talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly.

0:30:10.090 --> 0:30:10.810
<v Speaker 1>I'm a talker.

0:30:11.370 --> 0:30:16.990
<v Speaker 2>Me too. So in 07 and 08, I was on

0:30:17.950 --> 0:30:22.090
<v Speaker 2>this medical drama house. Olivia Wilde was on house with

0:30:22.110 --> 0:30:25.610
<v Speaker 2>me at the time. And she knocked on my dressing

0:30:25.650 --> 0:30:27.990
<v Speaker 2>room door And she goes, hey, I have a plus

0:30:28.210 --> 0:30:31.520
<v Speaker 2>one to a Barack Obama event. Do you want to come?

0:30:32.130 --> 0:30:34.940
<v Speaker 2>And this was October of 2007. So what that means

0:30:34.980 --> 0:30:38.620
<v Speaker 2>is there were like 12 Democrats and 12 Republicans each

0:30:38.700 --> 0:30:41.780
<v Speaker 2>running for president. It was the primaries before the primaries.

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:45.260
<v Speaker 2>And nobody really knew Obama. They were like, oh, yeah,

0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:48.700
<v Speaker 2>he's the young black senator from Illinois. We like his

0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:51.840
<v Speaker 2>speech from 2004. And that's how I felt, too. And

0:30:51.860 --> 0:30:55.780
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, I'm good, Olivia. You enjoyed that event.

0:30:56.350 --> 0:30:58.250
<v Speaker 2>She's like, no, I mean, I have a plus one.

0:30:58.350 --> 0:31:00.930
<v Speaker 2>I think you'd like it. And I was like, yeah,

0:31:00.950 --> 0:31:04.550
<v Speaker 2>but it's probably like a recruitment event, right, for his campaign.

0:31:04.590 --> 0:31:07.430
<v Speaker 2>And she's like, yeah. And I was like, yeah, no,

0:31:07.560 --> 0:31:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm good. And she goes, well, I saw you reading

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:11.620
<v Speaker 2>his book. And I was like, yeah, I also read

0:31:11.640 --> 0:31:13.400
<v Speaker 2>a book about Dick Cheney. Don't need to meet him.

0:31:13.420 --> 0:31:18.300
<v Speaker 2>It's like I like to read. And she kept pushing

0:31:18.340 --> 0:31:19.500
<v Speaker 2>for a couple of days, and I think like the

0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:22.140
<v Speaker 2>third or fourth day she's like, by the way, it's

0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:25.220
<v Speaker 2>an open bar. I just think it, I'm like sold, sold.

0:31:25.260 --> 0:31:25.720
<v Speaker 1>Done.

0:31:25.860 --> 0:31:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Let's go. So we go and it was like a

0:31:28.640 --> 0:31:32.610
<v Speaker 2>hundred people. And it was like, you know, Olivia, I

0:31:32.670 --> 0:31:35.870
<v Speaker 2>think it was like Justin Timberlake, Usher. There were people

0:31:35.890 --> 0:31:39.150
<v Speaker 2>like this who were invited and I figured, okay, if

0:31:39.190 --> 0:31:41.930
<v Speaker 2>it's going to be a hundred artists, basically somebody is

0:31:41.950 --> 0:31:44.469
<v Speaker 2>going to ask really good questions about arts policy and

0:31:44.510 --> 0:31:47.820
<v Speaker 2>public art funding and things like that. So maybe I'll

0:31:48.140 --> 0:31:51.860
<v Speaker 2>ask a different question. So I went home. And before

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:54.200
<v Speaker 2>this event, I was like looking up the Obama website, like, oh,

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:58.070
<v Speaker 2>there's a section on climate change. And I read about how, oh,

0:31:58.100 --> 0:32:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Obama wants to invest in corn to turn into ethanol.

0:32:02.140 --> 0:32:04.500
<v Speaker 2>And I remembered, this is what a nerd I am.

0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:07.000
<v Speaker 2>I remembered this article that I had read shortly before

0:32:07.060 --> 0:32:11.180
<v Speaker 2>that in Foreign Affairs Magazine, the like thick blue thing

0:32:11.220 --> 0:32:13.540
<v Speaker 2>that you have to read in college. I still subscribe

0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:16.200
<v Speaker 2>to it. So I remember there was this article that

0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:19.000
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, you know, if we invest too heavily

0:32:19.080 --> 0:32:22.890
<v Speaker 2>in corn... to turn into biofuels, then it'll drive the

0:32:22.970 --> 0:32:25.570
<v Speaker 2>price of corn up for people who rely on it

0:32:25.870 --> 0:32:29.630
<v Speaker 2>in developing countries. And so I'm like, well, then why

0:32:29.690 --> 0:32:32.390
<v Speaker 2>would he do this? This is a great question to ask.

0:32:32.410 --> 0:32:34.450
<v Speaker 2>So I had that in the back of my head,

0:32:35.330 --> 0:32:38.110
<v Speaker 2>go to this event with Olivia, Obama's making the rounds.

0:32:38.670 --> 0:32:41.250
<v Speaker 2>I have like six glasses of wine. Like it is

0:32:41.270 --> 0:32:43.950
<v Speaker 2>because I'm like, whatever, I'm obviously not signing up to

0:32:43.990 --> 0:32:47.380
<v Speaker 2>volunteer for this guy's presidential campaign. But there's like free

0:32:47.420 --> 0:32:49.360
<v Speaker 2>booze and it's a room full of fellow artists. Like

0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:52.380
<v Speaker 2>what's not to love? This is great. And Obama comes

0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:54.140
<v Speaker 2>over and says hi to me and Olivia. And I

0:32:54.140 --> 0:32:58.190
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, that's right, my question. Senator, you know,

0:32:59.250 --> 0:33:02.030
<v Speaker 2>I read on your website that you're investing in corn

0:33:02.050 --> 0:33:04.030
<v Speaker 2>to turn into ethanol. But isn't that just going to

0:33:04.110 --> 0:33:07.550
<v Speaker 2>drive up the price of corn for people who rely

0:33:07.610 --> 0:33:10.330
<v Speaker 2>on it in developing countries? And Obama gives me what

0:33:10.430 --> 0:33:13.709
<v Speaker 2>now the whole world knows is his like cocky smile.

0:33:14.800 --> 0:33:18.620
<v Speaker 2>And he gives me this really cocky smile and he goes, oh, well, look,

0:33:19.070 --> 0:33:21.890
<v Speaker 2>a couple of things. A, I read that article in

0:33:21.950 --> 0:33:26.830
<v Speaker 2>Foreign Affairs, too. And if you had read my campaign

0:33:26.850 --> 0:33:30.760
<v Speaker 2>website carefully, you would have seen that I'm proposing investing

0:33:30.820 --> 0:33:35.340
<v Speaker 2>in corn-based ethanol as a bridge to cellulosic ethanol so

0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:38.300
<v Speaker 2>that we can one day create biofuels from the grass

0:33:38.340 --> 0:33:40.320
<v Speaker 2>that grows in our yards. And when you rake your

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:43.350
<v Speaker 2>front lawn... of leaves. And he just gives me another

0:33:43.390 --> 0:33:45.770
<v Speaker 2>cocky smile and walks away. And Olivia was like, you

0:33:45.790 --> 0:33:49.770
<v Speaker 2>just got schooled by Barack Obama. And we both signed

0:33:49.830 --> 0:33:52.210
<v Speaker 2>up to volunteer for his campaign that night. So I

0:33:52.230 --> 0:33:54.950
<v Speaker 2>was like, all right, you got me. I'll do a,

0:33:55.230 --> 0:33:58.390
<v Speaker 2>I'll do a trip to Iowa for you. So that

0:33:58.430 --> 0:34:00.630
<v Speaker 2>was kind of the intro. I think a lot of us,

0:34:01.090 --> 0:34:05.310
<v Speaker 2>a lot of artists at the time in the 07, 08,

0:34:05.310 --> 0:34:08.710
<v Speaker 2>the two biggest, they call them surrogates where you speak

0:34:08.750 --> 0:34:10.610
<v Speaker 2>on behalf of a candidate. And I think There were

0:34:10.630 --> 0:34:12.390
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people who did this for Hillary in

0:34:12.410 --> 0:34:14.109
<v Speaker 2>the early states, a lot of people who did this

0:34:14.170 --> 0:34:16.430
<v Speaker 2>for Obama in the early states. And then some of

0:34:16.450 --> 0:34:19.140
<v Speaker 2>the other candidates, I think the more, I don't want

0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:21.719
<v Speaker 2>to say fringe, but the less viable candidates had their

0:34:21.760 --> 0:34:24.600
<v Speaker 2>own sprinkling of people. So I did that for like

0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:28.000
<v Speaker 2>a year, over a year, I guess, and then joined

0:34:28.020 --> 0:34:32.020
<v Speaker 2>the Obama Arts Policy Committee. And by the time the

0:34:32.180 --> 0:34:35.890
<v Speaker 2>campaign was over, I applied for a job on this

0:34:35.950 --> 0:34:38.969
<v Speaker 2>like web link website. this white house job where I

0:34:38.969 --> 0:34:41.760
<v Speaker 2>was like, I am just curious if I'm even remotely

0:34:41.860 --> 0:34:44.760
<v Speaker 2>qualified to do this. Like I had gone to grad

0:34:44.780 --> 0:34:48.440
<v Speaker 2>school for, uh, international security and I did, I didn't

0:34:48.460 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 2>really tell anybody about it. It was not a full masters.

0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:53.460
<v Speaker 2>It was like a little, it's a thing you could

0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:55.460
<v Speaker 2>do online mostly. Okay.

0:34:56.420 --> 0:34:57.860
<v Speaker 1>I've not done it, but okay.

0:34:58.480 --> 0:35:00.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm a big nerd. I wanted to see like, are,

0:35:00.520 --> 0:35:02.540
<v Speaker 2>do any of these things matter? These things that I

0:35:02.640 --> 0:35:07.680
<v Speaker 2>did because I wanted to. Um, and, uh, and nobody called.

0:35:08.730 --> 0:35:11.150
<v Speaker 2>Nobody called me after I submitted my resume and my

0:35:11.210 --> 0:35:15.209
<v Speaker 2>CV onto this website after Obama won. And I only

0:35:15.310 --> 0:35:20.460
<v Speaker 2>told my then manager, my Hollywood manager that I had applied.

0:35:21.020 --> 0:35:22.520
<v Speaker 2>And he was like, well, that's crazy, don't you think?

0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:24.379
<v Speaker 2>I was like, yeah, I'm obviously not getting a White

0:35:24.420 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 2>House job. I just wanted to see if I was qualified.

0:35:27.580 --> 0:35:29.569
<v Speaker 2>I was like, well, did they say anything? Did you

0:35:29.590 --> 0:35:31.430
<v Speaker 2>get any feedback? I was like, no, but they must

0:35:31.469 --> 0:35:35.219
<v Speaker 2>be getting so many applications, right? Yeah. Then right before inauguration,

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:39.319
<v Speaker 2>right before Obama's inauguration, I get this phone call that says, hey,

0:35:39.360 --> 0:35:42.020
<v Speaker 2>will you be part of the inaugural ceremony? There's a

0:35:42.060 --> 0:35:44.700
<v Speaker 2>concert on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial and there

0:35:44.719 --> 0:35:48.210
<v Speaker 2>are artists who are doing mini speeches about the state

0:35:48.230 --> 0:35:50.690
<v Speaker 2>of democracy and then people who are singing. So it's

0:35:50.710 --> 0:35:53.049
<v Speaker 2>like Bruce Springsteen and Queen Latifah and people like that.

0:35:53.230 --> 0:35:53.670
<v Speaker 1>Casual.

0:35:54.090 --> 0:35:57.150
<v Speaker 2>Very casual. So I got to read a quote, as

0:35:57.190 --> 0:35:59.870
<v Speaker 2>did like Jack Black and some really funny people I admire.

0:36:00.110 --> 0:36:01.760
<v Speaker 2>The perk of doing this, the perk of saying yes,

0:36:02.380 --> 0:36:05.839
<v Speaker 2>was that backstage you got to introduce your family and

0:36:05.900 --> 0:36:09.580
<v Speaker 2>friends to the new now first family. And so I

0:36:09.620 --> 0:36:12.480
<v Speaker 2>brought my parents and my brother and my manager and, uh,

0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:16.900
<v Speaker 2>and you know, the, the president said hello and he said, Oh,

0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:18.320
<v Speaker 2>thanks so much for all the work you did. And

0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:21.740
<v Speaker 2>then Mrs. Obama, who I hadn't really met before comes

0:36:21.780 --> 0:36:24.200
<v Speaker 2>through and she goes, Cal, it's great to meet you. Um,

0:36:25.489 --> 0:36:27.230
<v Speaker 2>I know all the stuff you did for the campaign.

0:36:27.250 --> 0:36:29.570
<v Speaker 2>I hope you stay involved. And I assume this is

0:36:29.610 --> 0:36:32.170
<v Speaker 2>something that Michelle Obama says to everybody. So I said,

0:36:32.650 --> 0:36:36.170
<v Speaker 2>Of course, I definitely plan to. And my manager, who

0:36:36.210 --> 0:36:39.709
<v Speaker 2>I describe as like every character from the HBO show

0:36:39.870 --> 0:36:45.710
<v Speaker 2>Entourage in one person. So just like the former manager

0:36:45.850 --> 0:36:49.730
<v Speaker 2>says to Michelle Obama, well, you know, Cal applied for

0:36:49.750 --> 0:36:53.850
<v Speaker 2>a job, right? And she's like, what? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

0:36:53.890 --> 0:36:55.680
<v Speaker 2>You don't, don't do this. Don't do this. This is not,

0:36:55.860 --> 0:36:57.840
<v Speaker 2>this is not like, this is not a Warner Brothers

0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:00.299
<v Speaker 2>casting office. You don't do this. And she goes, what

0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:02.280
<v Speaker 2>do you mean? And he goes, yeah, yeah. He applied

0:37:02.340 --> 0:37:06.339
<v Speaker 2>for a job and nobody even called him back. And

0:37:06.500 --> 0:37:09.520
<v Speaker 2>I am humiliated. And she goes, well, who did you

0:37:09.580 --> 0:37:13.080
<v Speaker 2>apply with? And I just blurt out, well, I didn't

0:37:13.100 --> 0:37:15.640
<v Speaker 2>want to bother anybody. So I just put my application

0:37:15.680 --> 0:37:18.090
<v Speaker 2>on the website. And she looks at me like I

0:37:18.130 --> 0:37:21.989
<v Speaker 2>was insane. Like you just cold dropped your CV on

0:37:22.050 --> 0:37:25.830
<v Speaker 2>a website and didn't call anybody. So then she goes, hey, Barack,

0:37:26.590 --> 0:37:29.910
<v Speaker 2>come here. And like summons the president back over and goes,

0:37:29.969 --> 0:37:32.960
<v Speaker 2>tell him what you just told me. And I was like, well, sorry,

0:37:33.020 --> 0:37:34.860
<v Speaker 2>I applied for a job at the White House in

0:37:34.900 --> 0:37:36.930
<v Speaker 2>case I'm qualified, blah, blah, blah. And he said the

0:37:36.969 --> 0:37:39.590
<v Speaker 2>same thing. He's like, who did you apply with? And

0:37:39.610 --> 0:37:41.549
<v Speaker 2>I was like, well, I didn't want to bother anybody.

0:37:41.570 --> 0:37:44.270
<v Speaker 2>How am I supposed to know who to call? Well,

0:37:44.290 --> 0:37:46.770
<v Speaker 2>so his point was, he looked at me and he goes,

0:37:46.890 --> 0:37:49.810
<v Speaker 2>why wouldn't you just call somebody? And at that point,

0:37:50.190 --> 0:37:52.830
<v Speaker 2>I recognized what you know, because you're also an early

0:37:52.870 --> 0:37:55.750
<v Speaker 2>supporter of a lot of candidates, is that if you

0:37:55.790 --> 0:38:00.900
<v Speaker 2>start volunteering on a campaign early, I had spent time

0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:04.180
<v Speaker 2>with Barack Obama on the campaign trail. And I knew

0:38:04.260 --> 0:38:07.410
<v Speaker 2>his senior advisors. And that's the reason that I'd worked

0:38:07.450 --> 0:38:10.290
<v Speaker 2>in 26 states by that point. Yes, I was good

0:38:10.330 --> 0:38:12.770
<v Speaker 2>at my job that I was doing, but you do

0:38:12.810 --> 0:38:15.589
<v Speaker 2>know these people. And so his point was like, he

0:38:15.770 --> 0:38:18.910
<v Speaker 2>was confused whether I was actually serious about that application

0:38:18.950 --> 0:38:22.240
<v Speaker 2>or not. Because if you don't call anybody, by the way,

0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:24.500
<v Speaker 2>the point of that is, so I got a call

0:38:24.580 --> 0:38:28.200
<v Speaker 2>later that week from somebody who said, look, we're actually

0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:32.060
<v Speaker 2>looking for, we have one salary to pay, but we're

0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:35.460
<v Speaker 2>looking for somebody in the public engagement outreach office to

0:38:35.500 --> 0:38:39.240
<v Speaker 2>cover outreach to young Americans, outreach to the Asian American

0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:44.020
<v Speaker 2>Pacific Islander community, and outreach to the arts community. And

0:38:44.080 --> 0:38:47.819
<v Speaker 2>you taught college, you did youth outreach for us, and

0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:51.050
<v Speaker 2>you're an artist and understand that community well. Perfect job

0:38:51.070 --> 0:38:52.850
<v Speaker 2>for me. So it just so happened that the timing

0:38:52.870 --> 0:38:55.989
<v Speaker 2>was right. But the big lesson from that was in

0:38:56.060 --> 0:38:59.040
<v Speaker 2>their eyes, they were... Think about it this way. Anybody

0:38:59.060 --> 0:39:02.120
<v Speaker 2>who's listening who has a more traditional job, or any job, frankly,

0:39:02.620 --> 0:39:05.700
<v Speaker 2>if you want a job at a particular company, most

0:39:05.860 --> 0:39:08.040
<v Speaker 2>actors don't use LinkedIn or anything, but the way that

0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:10.680
<v Speaker 2>people use LinkedIn, you're going through your LinkedIn to see

0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:12.860
<v Speaker 2>how many degrees of separation you have from somebody who

0:39:12.890 --> 0:39:15.310
<v Speaker 2>works at a particular company. You're going to make those

0:39:15.370 --> 0:39:17.989
<v Speaker 2>phone calls. You know that dropping a resume onto an

0:39:18.170 --> 0:39:22.470
<v Speaker 2>aggregator website is only going to mean that some AI

0:39:22.530 --> 0:39:27.960
<v Speaker 2>slop tries to filter through for who has the supposed qualifications, right?

0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:30.680
<v Speaker 2>So you got to call the people. You always have

0:39:30.700 --> 0:39:31.590
<v Speaker 2>to call humans.

0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:33.779
<v Speaker 1>And I know you're talking to like young people with

0:39:33.820 --> 0:39:35.859
<v Speaker 1>jobs who are listening, but I also feel like you're

0:39:35.940 --> 0:39:38.200
<v Speaker 1>reminding me, I hate doing that.

0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Me too.

0:39:39.060 --> 0:39:41.540
<v Speaker 1>I hate to call people. I hate to bother people.

0:39:41.620 --> 0:39:44.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, you know, I'm a fan. I'm here. And

0:39:44.460 --> 0:39:45.820
<v Speaker 1>that's not the way to get anything done.

0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:49.100
<v Speaker 2>Nope. I hate Ugh. This is how I had always felt.

0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:50.120
<v Speaker 1>I hate it.

0:39:50.120 --> 0:39:52.919
<v Speaker 2>It really did. It doesn't feel right, I think. Maybe

0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.560
<v Speaker 2>it's a generational thing for us or maybe it's just

0:39:55.580 --> 0:39:57.100
<v Speaker 2>being too nice. I don't know.

0:39:57.120 --> 0:40:00.560
<v Speaker 1>But did this, like did this lesson and then working

0:40:00.620 --> 0:40:02.780
<v Speaker 1>in the White House and literally being in charge of outreach,

0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:07.000
<v Speaker 1>did it change that tendency in you at all?

0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:10.640
<v Speaker 2>I think it made me a little more pragmatic for

0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:12.560
<v Speaker 2>certain things. So I'll give you an example. You know,

0:40:12.620 --> 0:40:14.300
<v Speaker 2>it's funny you're asking me this. I was just telling

0:40:14.340 --> 0:40:16.589
<v Speaker 2>a friend and I wondered, I wondered when I was

0:40:16.610 --> 0:40:21.420
<v Speaker 2>telling a friend this story. So I guest hosted two

0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:23.800
<v Speaker 2>weeks on The Daily Show after Trevor left.

0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:25.640
<v Speaker 1>Such a dream come true.

0:40:25.700 --> 0:40:28.980
<v Speaker 2>Loved it. It was awesome. The first week was, I think,

0:40:29.020 --> 0:40:32.900
<v Speaker 2>when they had like 18 guest hosts or something. And

0:40:32.920 --> 0:40:35.620
<v Speaker 2>then they whittled it down several months later and had

0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:37.600
<v Speaker 2>like five or six of us come back to host

0:40:37.640 --> 0:40:40.759
<v Speaker 2>a second week. And in the middle of that, I

0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:45.500
<v Speaker 2>remember calling my agents at UTA and And thinking to myself,

0:40:45.719 --> 0:40:49.399
<v Speaker 2>I guess I know this from the Michelle Obama conversation,

0:40:49.980 --> 0:40:54.120
<v Speaker 2>but really I've watched enough succession to know that like

0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:58.950
<v Speaker 2>you should just ask somebody to go to drinks.

0:40:59.850 --> 0:41:00.130
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:41:00.950 --> 0:41:04.870
<v Speaker 2>As an adult human and have a conversation. And if

0:41:04.930 --> 0:41:07.390
<v Speaker 2>they say no to the drinks, that's fine. If the

0:41:07.410 --> 0:41:09.200
<v Speaker 2>drinks don't go well or they go well and it

0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:11.700
<v Speaker 2>doesn't yield what you want, also fine. Yeah. But like,

0:41:11.840 --> 0:41:14.560
<v Speaker 2>why not? Why wouldn't you do that? It's like kind

0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:18.080
<v Speaker 2>of old school, but also if you like people, just

0:41:18.100 --> 0:41:20.299
<v Speaker 2>do it that way. So I had invited a couple

0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:22.460
<v Speaker 2>of the execs who were ultimately going to make the

0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Daily Show decision out to drinks. And I basically made

0:41:24.380 --> 0:41:27.940
<v Speaker 2>my case where I said, I'd love this job. I

0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:31.280
<v Speaker 2>am the only guest host who's not a stand-up comedian.

0:41:32.780 --> 0:41:35.029
<v Speaker 2>So I understand you might have qualms about that, but

0:41:35.050 --> 0:41:37.310
<v Speaker 2>I'm also the only guest host who's worked in the

0:41:37.350 --> 0:41:41.220
<v Speaker 2>executive branch in politics. So I think there's a value

0:41:41.300 --> 0:41:44.140
<v Speaker 2>add there, too. Anyway, at the end of drinks, like

0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:46.339
<v Speaker 2>the following day, I get this call that's like, you're

0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:49.160
<v Speaker 2>guest hosting a second week on The Daily Show. So

0:41:49.219 --> 0:41:51.850
<v Speaker 2>I didn't ultimately get the gig. They brought Jon Stewart back.

0:41:51.870 --> 0:41:53.930
<v Speaker 2>They're doing this amazing rotating thing with all of their

0:41:54.370 --> 0:41:58.549
<v Speaker 2>hilarious correspondents. So sure. Did it ultimately not go my way? Yes.

0:41:58.650 --> 0:42:01.810
<v Speaker 2>Did I get two of the most amazing weeks? One

0:42:01.850 --> 0:42:04.330
<v Speaker 2>being an additional one because I advocated for myself in

0:42:04.350 --> 0:42:06.720
<v Speaker 2>a particular way. Yes. But I don't know if that

0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:08.960
<v Speaker 2>was thanks to Michelle Obama teaching me a lesson or

0:42:09.040 --> 0:42:12.680
<v Speaker 2>just watching Succession. Right. Maybe a little bit of both. Yeah,

0:42:12.700 --> 0:42:13.180
<v Speaker 2>a little both.

0:42:13.600 --> 0:42:15.560
<v Speaker 1>And now a word from our sponsors who make this

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:28.770
<v Speaker 1>show possible. How do you think about that stuff? Cause you're,

0:42:28.790 --> 0:42:31.650
<v Speaker 1>you know, you're talking about what sort of advocacy and

0:42:31.750 --> 0:42:37.790
<v Speaker 1>activism has the most real impact. You obviously had quite

0:42:37.810 --> 0:42:40.810
<v Speaker 1>an impact working in the white house, but then you

0:42:40.850 --> 0:42:42.569
<v Speaker 1>also got to the point where you were ready to

0:42:43.150 --> 0:42:45.950
<v Speaker 1>step back and go back into your personal world, into

0:42:46.030 --> 0:42:48.790
<v Speaker 1>your personal life, you know, writing and making movies and

0:42:49.290 --> 0:42:52.359
<v Speaker 1>eventually doing your book and like hat, How did you

0:42:52.420 --> 0:42:55.640
<v Speaker 1>decide when it was the right time to fill your

0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:59.080
<v Speaker 1>cup as an individual after you'd been sort of filling,

0:42:59.100 --> 0:43:01.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, the social cup for so long?

0:43:01.900 --> 0:43:04.700
<v Speaker 2>I think, I mean, you know, going off and working,

0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:07.759
<v Speaker 2>working in the Obama administration was just one of those

0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:12.060
<v Speaker 2>things where I thought, oh, I, the decision to apply even,

0:43:12.100 --> 0:43:14.100
<v Speaker 2>I kind of thought, well, I just spent the last

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.180
<v Speaker 2>like 16 months going to 26 states to tell people

0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:20.790
<v Speaker 2>that they should support this guy. And now I'm just

0:43:20.810 --> 0:43:23.800
<v Speaker 2>going to go back to, you know, my fancy TV job,

0:43:23.820 --> 0:43:28.299
<v Speaker 2>which by the way, loved and would happily do again, uh,

0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:30.820
<v Speaker 2>have the job, not leave it necessarily.

0:43:31.219 --> 0:43:32.660
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:43:34.540 --> 0:43:36.799
<v Speaker 2>But I remember thinking like, if I am qualified to

0:43:36.860 --> 0:43:39.480
<v Speaker 2>do this, then, then maybe there's an opportunity to kind

0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:41.939
<v Speaker 2>of just see if I can help get the thing

0:43:41.980 --> 0:43:44.040
<v Speaker 2>done that I promised that this guy would get done

0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:46.190
<v Speaker 2>because you know, you need teams and teams of people to,

0:43:46.989 --> 0:43:48.790
<v Speaker 2>kind of help with that. And I thought it was

0:43:48.830 --> 0:43:50.049
<v Speaker 2>the right thing at the time. And then when it

0:43:50.090 --> 0:43:52.969
<v Speaker 2>actually came to fruition, I kind of thought like, Oh,

0:43:53.010 --> 0:43:55.550
<v Speaker 2>this is, you know, what a selfishly, what a historic

0:43:55.590 --> 0:43:57.370
<v Speaker 2>thing to be part of. And yes, there's no reason

0:43:57.410 --> 0:43:59.609
<v Speaker 2>to say no. And on your deathbed, are you going

0:43:59.630 --> 0:44:01.630
<v Speaker 2>to be like, I'm so glad I didn't work for

0:44:01.650 --> 0:44:04.989
<v Speaker 2>the first black president and get some healthcare passed, you know,

0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:06.940
<v Speaker 2>be like, no, I think I might be like, Oh,

0:44:07.219 --> 0:44:10.259
<v Speaker 2>this TV career was amazing. And I never left it,

0:44:10.280 --> 0:44:12.540
<v Speaker 2>but I wish maybe I had taken a short sabbatical.

0:44:13.080 --> 0:44:14.180
<v Speaker 2>I thought I was only going to do a year.

0:44:15.160 --> 0:44:16.550
<v Speaker 2>And that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to

0:44:16.860 --> 0:44:19.330
<v Speaker 2>step away from a year and then come right back

0:44:19.350 --> 0:44:22.230
<v Speaker 2>to acting. And the reason it took almost two and

0:44:22.250 --> 0:44:25.890
<v Speaker 2>a half is within the first year, I realized almost

0:44:25.930 --> 0:44:29.390
<v Speaker 2>in those days, you have to just remember, almost nothing

0:44:29.410 --> 0:44:32.500
<v Speaker 2>gets done quickly in politics. That's generally the sign of

0:44:32.540 --> 0:44:35.180
<v Speaker 2>a healthier democracy. What you're seeing right now is clearly

0:44:35.219 --> 0:44:38.480
<v Speaker 2>not a healthy democracy, which is why executive action is

0:44:38.500 --> 0:44:42.790
<v Speaker 2>so prevalent. Yeah. But I'm like, oh, right. I've been

0:44:42.830 --> 0:44:45.410
<v Speaker 2>here almost a year and we still don't have Don't Ask,

0:44:45.430 --> 0:44:49.509
<v Speaker 2>Don't Tell repealed. I think we had the ACA. There

0:44:49.570 --> 0:44:52.049
<v Speaker 2>was no, the DREAM Act was still something that was

0:44:52.070 --> 0:44:54.520
<v Speaker 2>going to be voted on. And I'd been working on

0:44:55.140 --> 0:44:57.560
<v Speaker 2>all of those just as part of the youth, particularly

0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:01.259
<v Speaker 2>youth outreach components. So I stayed until the things that

0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:04.340
<v Speaker 2>were on that legislative list were going to be done.

0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:07.130
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, if they're not done in another year, I'm

0:45:07.170 --> 0:45:09.750
<v Speaker 2>definitely leaving regardless because I got to go back to

0:45:09.790 --> 0:45:12.380
<v Speaker 2>my actual career. I am not working in politics for

0:45:12.420 --> 0:45:14.560
<v Speaker 2>the rest of my life. Um, so that's when I

0:45:14.600 --> 0:45:17.359
<v Speaker 2>decided to come back and, and, uh, amazing first gig.

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:19.339
<v Speaker 2>I like, I leave the white house and a couple

0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:21.259
<v Speaker 2>of weeks later, I'm on the new season of how

0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:22.700
<v Speaker 2>I met your mother. And I'm like, I'm back with

0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:23.160
<v Speaker 2>my people.

0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:28.089
<v Speaker 1>Incredible. So incredible. I love it. Well, and now, you know,

0:45:28.130 --> 0:45:32.479
<v Speaker 1>fast forward to today. your latest role, which must make

0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:35.819
<v Speaker 1>your parents so happy. I know it did when I

0:45:35.840 --> 0:45:39.089
<v Speaker 1>did this. The movie, trust me, I'm a doctor.

0:45:39.110 --> 0:45:39.190
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:45:39.350 --> 0:45:41.969
<v Speaker 1>You get to play a doctor on screen.

0:45:42.050 --> 0:45:42.430
<v Speaker 2>I do.

0:45:42.910 --> 0:45:46.989
<v Speaker 1>But yours is not, you know, total fiction. It's not

0:45:47.030 --> 0:45:51.469
<v Speaker 1>a created thing. You're portraying the real life doctor whose

0:45:51.860 --> 0:45:54.420
<v Speaker 1>world kind of got knocked sideways by the death of

0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Anna Nicole Smith.

0:45:55.980 --> 0:45:57.060
<v Speaker 2>It's a crazy story.

0:45:57.560 --> 0:46:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Can you, like, can you give us I don't want

0:46:00.219 --> 0:46:02.980
<v Speaker 1>to spoil anything, but also I'm like, tell the people

0:46:03.080 --> 0:46:04.500
<v Speaker 1>what this is all about.

0:46:04.520 --> 0:46:09.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I won't spoil it, but yeah. Have you played

0:46:09.060 --> 0:46:10.640
<v Speaker 2>a real person who's still living, by the way?

0:46:11.100 --> 0:46:13.509
<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. That's got to be wild.

0:46:13.590 --> 0:46:15.290
<v Speaker 2>It was wild. This is the first time that I

0:46:15.530 --> 0:46:17.670
<v Speaker 2>have had the chance to do that. I've played characters

0:46:18.250 --> 0:46:21.910
<v Speaker 2>from book adaptations and things like that. Yeah. Obviously played

0:46:21.989 --> 0:46:25.029
<v Speaker 2>characters based on 10 real people. And you do the

0:46:25.090 --> 0:46:26.989
<v Speaker 2>research that way, but this is the first time there

0:46:27.010 --> 0:46:29.969
<v Speaker 2>was an actual person. And, and Anna Nicole Smith, who

0:46:30.010 --> 0:46:33.629
<v Speaker 2>was a model and reality TV star who tragically passed

0:46:33.670 --> 0:46:38.529
<v Speaker 2>away in the, in the two thousands. She hurt her doctor.

0:46:38.550 --> 0:46:42.980
<v Speaker 2>I believe her lawyer and somebody else. There were three

0:46:43.040 --> 0:46:47.200
<v Speaker 2>people who were on trial in connection with her death.

0:46:47.700 --> 0:46:49.680
<v Speaker 2>One of whom is, is her doctor, this guy named

0:46:49.700 --> 0:46:56.890
<v Speaker 2>Sandeep Kapoor. And, and, he, he wrote a book 10

0:46:56.890 --> 0:47:01.480
<v Speaker 2>years after this whole ordeal from his perspective about what

0:47:01.520 --> 0:47:06.180
<v Speaker 2>being put on trial was like, um, then ends up

0:47:06.340 --> 0:47:12.140
<v Speaker 2>randomly like kind of selling, selling it to this writer, director,

0:47:12.580 --> 0:47:16.230
<v Speaker 2>producer pair, um, who turned it into this film. And

0:47:16.250 --> 0:47:18.529
<v Speaker 2>I remember reading the script a couple of years ago

0:47:18.810 --> 0:47:22.930
<v Speaker 2>being like, isn't this guy in prison? And he is

0:47:22.969 --> 0:47:25.950
<v Speaker 2>not right. This just shows you how, yes, you were,

0:47:26.070 --> 0:47:29.870
<v Speaker 2>if you're, if you remember the 15 years ago, TMZ

0:47:29.910 --> 0:47:32.370
<v Speaker 2>people magazine, all the like stuff I'm like, Oh yeah,

0:47:32.390 --> 0:47:35.490
<v Speaker 2>I remember seeing this with one part of my brain, but.

0:47:35.110 --> 0:47:37.529
<v Speaker 1>Like guilty and it's like, wait, no, Oh my God,

0:47:37.570 --> 0:47:38.370
<v Speaker 1>I'm so sorry.

0:47:38.390 --> 0:47:41.130
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. And then there's more to the story. So, uh,

0:47:41.570 --> 0:47:43.370
<v Speaker 2>so I, I read the script. I'm like, Oh, I

0:47:43.370 --> 0:47:45.810
<v Speaker 2>had no idea it was this dynamic. I agreed to

0:47:45.870 --> 0:47:48.589
<v Speaker 2>do it. And then the real Dr. Kapoor was kind

0:47:48.630 --> 0:47:52.130
<v Speaker 2>enough to let me shadow him. And he's a really quirky,

0:47:52.270 --> 0:47:55.750
<v Speaker 2>very peculiar in a, in a, in a like very

0:47:55.810 --> 0:48:00.130
<v Speaker 2>loving way guy. And the first thing that I recognized

0:48:00.170 --> 0:48:01.930
<v Speaker 2>was like, I shadowed him. He still has the same

0:48:01.969 --> 0:48:05.410
<v Speaker 2>practice in LA that he had when Anna Nicole was,

0:48:05.610 --> 0:48:09.350
<v Speaker 2>was his patient, but he bought it from an older

0:48:09.390 --> 0:48:12.489
<v Speaker 2>doctor who was retiring. And she was a patient of

0:48:12.510 --> 0:48:15.610
<v Speaker 2>the older doctor and, So when you buy a medical practice,

0:48:15.630 --> 0:48:18.259
<v Speaker 2>you're also buying your patient list. So that's how he

0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:21.040
<v Speaker 2>inherited the patient. But the first thing you notice when

0:48:21.980 --> 0:48:25.299
<v Speaker 2>you shadow him is that, you know, like, I don't

0:48:25.320 --> 0:48:27.700
<v Speaker 2>know who your doctors are here, but if I need

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:30.239
<v Speaker 2>to make an appointment with my doctor, I can't really

0:48:30.260 --> 0:48:33.319
<v Speaker 2>call a human. By the time I get a human,

0:48:33.360 --> 0:48:36.600
<v Speaker 2>it takes a long time. I can go online. And

0:48:36.680 --> 0:48:39.399
<v Speaker 2>hope that there's something in the next seven weeks where

0:48:39.460 --> 0:48:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I can get a slot in. Like it's ludicrous, right?

0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:45.080
<v Speaker 2>This guy, you call him, there's a human who picks

0:48:45.140 --> 0:48:48.160
<v Speaker 2>up the phone. There are like three receptionists and he

0:48:48.219 --> 0:48:50.569
<v Speaker 2>knows you when you come in. It's like the old

0:48:51.250 --> 0:48:54.770
<v Speaker 2>1950s family doctor vibe. So as soon as I saw that,

0:48:54.810 --> 0:48:58.170
<v Speaker 2>I kind of thought now I understand how for a

0:48:58.270 --> 0:49:11.130
<v Speaker 2>cynical American palate, Right. Right. so well or that you

0:49:11.150 --> 0:49:13.609
<v Speaker 2>went to your patient's birthday parties or things like that

0:49:14.070 --> 0:49:15.489
<v Speaker 2>but then you see how he works and I'm like

0:49:15.670 --> 0:49:17.530
<v Speaker 2>I guess if I had that relationship with my doctor

0:49:17.550 --> 0:49:20.920
<v Speaker 2>like yeah you'd get the you'd get the invite to

0:49:20.960 --> 0:49:23.180
<v Speaker 2>like the Super Bowl party or you'd get the thing

0:49:23.219 --> 0:49:26.060
<v Speaker 2>that's like yeah come on over so I think the

0:49:26.100 --> 0:49:28.660
<v Speaker 2>movie explores a lot of these blurred lines between him

0:49:29.060 --> 0:49:32.239
<v Speaker 2>and Anna Nicole and it was just it was really

0:49:32.260 --> 0:49:34.660
<v Speaker 2>interesting to play around with that it's a dark comedy

0:49:35.080 --> 0:49:36.739
<v Speaker 2>I almost hesitate saying that because I never want to

0:49:36.780 --> 0:49:38.969
<v Speaker 2>make light of something that came out of somebody's tragic

0:49:39.010 --> 0:49:43.279
<v Speaker 2>death but It was a super interesting thing to work on.

0:49:43.300 --> 0:49:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad it's finally coming out.

0:49:44.900 --> 0:49:48.760
<v Speaker 1>It's really exciting. I also think, you know, I understand

0:49:49.110 --> 0:49:51.730
<v Speaker 1>the hesitation to describe something as a dark comedy that

0:49:51.770 --> 0:49:55.490
<v Speaker 1>does revolve around real people when there was a tragedy involved.

0:49:56.090 --> 0:49:58.430
<v Speaker 1>But I also think it's an interesting way in.

0:49:58.450 --> 0:49:59.529
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure.

0:49:59.550 --> 0:50:04.770
<v Speaker 1>In terms of the container of it. It's like it

0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:08.339
<v Speaker 1>allows for certain things to come across that I think

0:50:08.520 --> 0:50:12.799
<v Speaker 1>other people um, traditional devices might not. And so it, it,

0:50:13.060 --> 0:50:15.100
<v Speaker 1>it really does work. And I think because it is,

0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:20.339
<v Speaker 1>you know, more his story, it, it makes sense because

0:50:20.360 --> 0:50:24.810
<v Speaker 1>what a, what a strange, um, just what a strange

0:50:24.870 --> 0:50:26.770
<v Speaker 1>thing to kind of get yanked out of your daily

0:50:26.810 --> 0:50:30.470
<v Speaker 1>life by, you know, and I think about even the era,

0:50:31.489 --> 0:50:34.250
<v Speaker 1>you know, the, the early two thousands and the, the

0:50:34.310 --> 0:50:37.910
<v Speaker 1>paparazzi and the, the advent of all those terrible, uh,

0:50:38.450 --> 0:50:41.270
<v Speaker 1>tabloid sites and just, oh, it was just all so

0:50:41.450 --> 0:50:46.049
<v Speaker 1>gross and terrible, terrible for everybody. And I don't know,

0:50:47.190 --> 0:50:50.469
<v Speaker 1>thinking about what public perception felt like then, what it

0:50:50.510 --> 0:50:52.790
<v Speaker 1>feels like now, you know, now the opinions of you

0:50:52.830 --> 0:50:56.469
<v Speaker 1>can be sort of swayed online by bot farms people

0:50:56.510 --> 0:51:00.330
<v Speaker 1>can pay for. It's like everything is so nuts. You know,

0:51:00.350 --> 0:51:05.719
<v Speaker 1>it's nice to have this opportunity to be reminded to

0:51:05.760 --> 0:51:07.600
<v Speaker 1>look a little deeper at somebody's story.

0:51:07.680 --> 0:51:09.719
<v Speaker 2>Definitely. There's a lot of complexity and there are a

0:51:09.840 --> 0:51:11.480
<v Speaker 2>lot of flaws there. I mean, the other part that

0:51:11.540 --> 0:51:15.530
<v Speaker 2>I loved about playing him is he's a flawed character

0:51:15.610 --> 0:51:18.109
<v Speaker 2>in this story in a way that I think we

0:51:18.330 --> 0:51:21.069
<v Speaker 2>ultimately will kind of, he'll make you angry, but you'll

0:51:21.090 --> 0:51:24.910
<v Speaker 2>also empathize because nobody is straightforward. We all make mistakes.

0:51:25.739 --> 0:51:27.739
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I love it. And I'm thrilled that it's out

0:51:27.780 --> 0:51:28.480
<v Speaker 1>in the world as well.

0:51:28.500 --> 0:51:28.750
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:51:29.390 --> 0:51:32.250
<v Speaker 1>Before I let you go today, I have to ask

0:51:32.290 --> 0:51:35.260
<v Speaker 1>you my favorite question that I ask everybody, which is

0:51:36.239 --> 0:51:38.040
<v Speaker 1>what feels like your work in progress right now?

0:51:39.160 --> 0:51:46.020
<v Speaker 2>Oh, great question. I'll just be a little vulnerable, I guess. Pre-COVID,

0:51:46.900 --> 0:51:49.290
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I was kind of on more of

0:51:49.370 --> 0:51:52.629
<v Speaker 2>a role creatively in a way that felt grounded for me.

0:51:52.650 --> 0:51:55.630
<v Speaker 2>I had a show on the air and I was

0:51:55.670 --> 0:51:58.509
<v Speaker 2>developing a couple of other things and Most of this

0:51:58.570 --> 0:52:02.190
<v Speaker 2>is also just the marketplace and how people were traditionally

0:52:02.250 --> 0:52:05.730
<v Speaker 2>buying still up until after COVID and the strikes and

0:52:05.760 --> 0:52:07.380
<v Speaker 2>all of that. So the one thing that I think

0:52:07.410 --> 0:52:09.540
<v Speaker 2>is a work in progress is I have a couple

0:52:09.580 --> 0:52:11.420
<v Speaker 2>of things that I'm pitching and that I'm writing and

0:52:11.440 --> 0:52:15.180
<v Speaker 2>that I'm working on. I feel a little wobbly, I think,

0:52:15.420 --> 0:52:18.180
<v Speaker 2>because there are less buyers and there are less kind

0:52:18.219 --> 0:52:21.100
<v Speaker 2>of people to pitch to. And if it's a crazier idea,

0:52:22.060 --> 0:52:24.380
<v Speaker 2>you often hear like, let's hold on that for a

0:52:24.410 --> 0:52:26.330
<v Speaker 2>bit and then come back to it. So there's kind

0:52:26.370 --> 0:52:29.850
<v Speaker 2>of like that piece of it. Um, but the best

0:52:29.930 --> 0:52:33.359
<v Speaker 2>part of that work in progress is I've added starting

0:52:33.400 --> 0:52:36.180
<v Speaker 2>to do stand up the last few months and I'd

0:52:36.300 --> 0:52:41.219
<v Speaker 2>never done stand up before. It's insanely scary. So I'm

0:52:41.380 --> 0:52:44.359
<v Speaker 2>not on like the, it's a trajectory that just looks

0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:47.480
<v Speaker 2>like this. It's more of a, of a roller coaster

0:52:47.540 --> 0:52:50.620
<v Speaker 2>where I'm trying to get my sea legs on there

0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:53.550
<v Speaker 2>and see what's funny and what's not. And like, yeah,

0:52:53.989 --> 0:52:58.370
<v Speaker 2>does the R rated stuff. feel right or is my

0:52:58.390 --> 0:53:01.050
<v Speaker 2>thing the the nerdy political jokes like I really don't

0:53:01.090 --> 0:53:03.660
<v Speaker 2>know but finding that voice has been has been like

0:53:03.700 --> 0:53:05.100
<v Speaker 2>a really fun work in progress too.

0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:07.379
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god that's so exciting that's one of those

0:53:07.420 --> 0:53:09.420
<v Speaker 1>things that scares me so much but I I I

0:53:10.480 --> 0:53:13.510
<v Speaker 1>have like vulnerably for me I have like a little

0:53:13.550 --> 0:53:15.130
<v Speaker 1>pin and I'm like someday.

0:53:14.710 --> 0:53:17.590
<v Speaker 2>Yeah you should do it I don't know.

0:53:19.670 --> 0:53:23.030
<v Speaker 1>It feels terrifying yeah it's so exciting Well, I'm super

0:53:23.070 --> 0:53:25.850
<v Speaker 1>happy for you. Congratulations on all things.

0:53:26.090 --> 0:53:26.950
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:53:27.210 --> 0:53:28.359
<v Speaker 1>This was such a pleasure.

0:53:28.380 --> 0:53:30.219
<v Speaker 2>This was awesome. It's great to see you again.