WEBVTT - Story Updates #1 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:10.960 God Area, Garrison takeover. I asked for some grunting that 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:16.560 was like a word what okay, what it was? I 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:18.480 know lots of they could have been here And openings 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.320 have become Bastard's openings now just kind of opening. Robert 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.800 doesn't have more than one type of opening. There's two. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.000 There's there's grunting and then yelling something weird that is 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.360 that's basically the same learning how to do your job 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.640 is cuk shit. Also, to be honest, most of the 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.400 time doesn't know which podcast he's doing. What is this 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.519 are we doing? Is this the daily sidegeist? Is this 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:46.960 is my Jack O'Brien, this is this is it could 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:55.520 happen here. So we're talking today about the different things 0:00:55.600 --> 0:01:00.000 that are it here being the States this time. Um, 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.760 but we're talking about basically, over the course of the 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.440 past few months, we have covered a few different topics 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.280 on the show. UM, some of which have already kind 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.240 of had some results of had updates to what we've 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.960 already covered. So we're I'm gonna I'm gonna go through 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.040 a list of like a three different things that we've 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.880 covered and talk about kind of the updates in these stories. Um, 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.400 you know, most of what we've covered around these topics 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.319 have been like a mix of original reporting and interviews. 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.319 So now there's been further further work down on this 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.680 and this, we're not kind of update people. If you know, 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.319 they're not as terminally online as us, maybe they have 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.280 not heard that there's been changes to these stories. And 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.119 I wanted to kind of put together a nice little 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.360 concise thing talking about updates to all the things we've covered. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.319 Um So, the first thing that we're gonna be talking 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.880 a bit about is the Cops City in Atlanta, and 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.840 they defend the Atlanta Forest Collision. So I think like 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:57.000 a day after our episode dropped on that, um, Atlantic 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:01.680 City Council voted uh ten to or in favor of 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:06.480 getting the militarized police training facility greenlit Um nicknamed Cops City. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.679 There was seventeen hours of public testimony. We're seven of 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.480 the callers bilk out against the facility. Yeah, I mean 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.480 that we had that happen in Portland. It doesn't Yeah, yeah, 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.840 it never matters. It doesn't matter what the vast majority, 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:23.280 especially when there's especially when this money involved. Yeah, do 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.040 not do not ever be deceived into thinking that you 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.079 live in a democracy and that what you actually want 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:30.920 to matter is in any way, shape or form, this 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.359 is just not this is empirically not true. Like like 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:38.240 sixty five percent of Texans periods support vaccine mandates in 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.760 some instances, but the governor just made it illegal to 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.400 do them ever. Um, Like it's it's it's that way 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:48.000 across the board, across the nation. Um. People ask sometimes 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.680 because like you know, when you get into anarchists discussions 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.679 of politics, there's a lot of criticism of democracy. I 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.919 don't I think democracy is a lovely idea. I would 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:57.760 like to try it something. It would be nice to 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.720 get it ago. It would be nice to experience. So yeah, 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.080 this city council voted to least the acres of city 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:08.560 owned forest land to the Atlanta Police Foundation, UM, at 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:10.200 least eighty five acres of which is going to be 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.120 slated to become the police training facility. UM. The facility 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.320 is going to cost around ninety million dollars. Jesus Christ, 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.600 I could train cops much cheaper than that, although training 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.680 is the wrong word. Yeah, that is the wrong word 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:25.880 for that. UM. So yeah, not nine million dollars. It's 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:27.720 gonna include, it's gonna include a state of the art, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:32.200 explosive testing facility, firing ranges, emergency vehicle operations course, a 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:36.880 classroom space UM, and an emergency and an emergency per space. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.200 It'll probably learned to read, right. I'm sure it's for 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.360 teaching people to do bad things. UM. There's going to 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.440 be an emergency helicopter pad and an entire like mock town. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.360 It is good that they have the emergency helicopter pad 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:54.240 because cops shoot each other with live ammunition all the time, 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.320 and that that does happen. It does happen a lot. 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.080 So Yeah. The main backer for this project, UM is 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.840 the Atlanted Police Foundation, which is a political advocacy group 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:06.320 that you know, has a lot of funding from corporations 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.560 and they try to you know, sway the political power 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.200 of the city into giving more power to the police. UM. 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.160 Uh huh. So the the interesting thing about this though, 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.680 is like the vote was supposed to happen in August, UM, 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.160 but it was rescheduled for early September after there was 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:24.599 a lot of public backlash around this proposal. UM. Then 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.400 the vote that was supposed to happen on like thet 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.000 got pushed back a whole day because there was too 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.719 many callers saying that they didn't want the facility. So 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.840 the vote got pushed back a day in September, but 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.599 it stays still voted for it. Yeah, so thirty million 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:43.279 dollars is going to be footed by taxpayers and the 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.800 other sixty million is going to get paid for by 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.200 the Police Foundation, which has a lot of different like 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:53.480 corporate donors. So that's that's that's that's that um. And 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.279 of course it's on you know, on this forest land, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:56.760 which is like some of the you know, biggest forest 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.040 land in any major American city. So you know, they're 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.800 tearing down all this four to build this concrete city 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:06.680 to train cops in. We Wel also mentioned that at 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.000 the end of her interview with some of the people 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.920 resisting this, they basically said, like, if the vote goes through, 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.320 resists is going to continue, so we will continue. There's 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.880 probably gonna be efforts to like actually try to physically 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.600 prevent the construction of this, But the next thing we're 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.120 gonna be talking about is stop line three, um, which 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.880 mean there was also you know, physical efforts to prevent that, 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.880 but the type of efforts that people usually do in 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.960 you know, modern green activism usually are a lot more 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:40.000 performative or they're specifically to pressure to create scenes that 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.080 will try to convince politicians to veto the process. So 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.480 it's not you know, it's it's it's different from the 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.120 nineties when it was easier to like actually physically stop 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.599 the prevention of things. Now a lot of the people 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:53.760 who you know are trying to do this, it is 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.320 they're not convinced that, you know, doing a lock box 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.680 is going to actually physically prevent it. What it's gonna 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.360 do is create media coverage that truck that is going 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.760 to hopefully convince politicians to be like, hey, maybe we 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.400 shouldn't do this, And that's a hard bargain, right, That's 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.719 not there's no saying that that's actually going to do 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.400 the thing. You know, in the in the case of 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.960 stop Line three that did not stop Line three. Um. 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.560 There was a really good uh um critique of the 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.880 stop Line three protests posted in It's going down by 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.840 an Indigenous anarchist who lives on that land who was 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.440 like younger um, and they're you know, watching all of 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:29.720 these you know, older indigenous anarchists, you know, keep on 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.560 getting arrested and brutalized, like, but we're not actually doing anything, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.039 and the methods that we're doing that, the methods that 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.040 we're trying to, like, you know, gain public support. This 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.760 isn't working in a specific context. Maybe we should reevaluate 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.080 what we're actually doing. I know it's going down faced 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.320 a bit of backlash for posting that critique, but I 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.160 think that I think the critique is actually worth reading. 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:48.919 Any any other thoughts on the Atlanta thing before I 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.000 move on to the stop line three stuff? Um, No, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.720 no other than to note that I think the best 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.960 brisket I've ever had came from Atlanta. Okay, well, I'll 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.200 probably I'll probably visit in Atlanta in the near future, 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.960 maybe there with you, um, in which case I'll get 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.640 some more motherfucking brisket. Yeah. It was actually the fun story. 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.640 We were road tripping through town, me and another friend 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.280 in another car, and we were talking over radios and 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.400 a trucker got on like the channel we were on 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.800 because we were talking about where to get barbecue, and 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.360 he told us where to go. Um. It was neat. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.040 It was like an actual nice like like moment of 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.800 CB radio connection. Like this guy was just scanning the 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:29.240 waves and found us, and I was like, oh, I 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.760 can tell you where to go anyway, continue garrison. That 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.040 was completely unrelated to stopping Line three. So the next 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:39.119 thing is earlier, I think in September maybe August. I forget, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.080 it's been a while. We we we posted two episodes 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.760 about me visiting the top Line three protests and the 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.280 Earth First camp, and a lot of stuff has happened 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.600 since then. Um So you know, the main you know 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.800 thing is that the pipe Planet has been finished now 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.000 um and is basically getting is ready to be operated, 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.520 or it probably already has some operation. It's unclear how 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.200 much is being used right now, but it is done construction. 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.040 It doubles the capacity of the original pipeline. It's gonna 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.920 be doing like a seven hundred and sixty thousand barrels 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.080 of oil a day. So in the e carves outland 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:15.080 through through wet lands where people grow wild rice and 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:19.480 do hunting. Um. So, overall the past few months police 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:23.200 arrested over nine hundred people, and it's there's been a 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.160 lot of like felony charges specifically for locking down, which 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.120 is pretty new because they're using felony theft charges for 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.520 people just locking down to equipment. Yeah, that is an 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:36.120 unfortunate escalation. Yeah. Um, so by the time we posted 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.840 our top line three episodes, we kind of already figured 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.120 this was going to be the result that That's kind 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.400 of how he ended the episode saying, there's been all 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.040 this resistance, but probably it's going to get built, and 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:47.920 you know, there's other things that we can learn from 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.320 this movement going on into the future. Um. But the 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.640 new developments that have happened. Um. I I did mention 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.920 in the episodes how much Enbridge was directly paying cops. 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.320 That was something we already knew what was happening, but 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:04.120 there was an article by The Guardian that really gave 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.960 a lot of new information around how much police involvement 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.920 there is with like with Enbridge, Like they are actually 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:16.000 coordinating a lot. So overall, uh, Enbridge has reimbursed US 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.520 police almost two and a half million dollars for arresting 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:24.720 and surveying protesters. UM also paying for like food, lodging gas, 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:26.920 So like it's they're not not just not not not 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.560 just paying wages, they're paying like for extra stuff as well. 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.080 So at least at least two and a half million 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.320 dollars that's been paid from the Canadian oil company. Um, 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.640 you know including that includes officer officer training, UH, police 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:43.040 patrol routes, surveillance, all this kind of stuff. UM. The 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.720 one one interesting thing that was noted in the article 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.439 is that the company at Enbridge meets daily with police 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.640 officers to discuss intelligence gathering and patrols UM. And when 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.040 and when Enbridge wants protesters removed, it directly calls or 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.920 sends letters to police, so they they actually like coordinate 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.280 when to actually get police involved during protests, and they 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.800 have at least daily information meetings. The one other interesting 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:11.400 thing besides just directly paying them for food, for you know, training, 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.160 equipment and the coordination between en Bridge and people being 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.840 on the ground, is um, how much that the Enbridge 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:22.440 paid for uh like proactive safety patrols and specific like 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:27.280 specific officer surveillance following alleged activists like home. So they 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.560 would like trail specific cars for a long time and 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.240 try to like do like in person surveillance on specific 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.200 people they thought were activists. And all of this time 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.440 was paid for by Enbridge and was being coordinated with Enbridge. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.640 So it's not just you know, paying for training, it's 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.400 not just for paying for equipment. It's specific surveillance of 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.600 certain people, and that is I don't know, that's something 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.560 that we weren't We did not really know the depths 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.160 of that for sure, but it's pretty it's pretty messed up. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.400 I know. We we suspected some of this coordination before, 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.560 Like when we talked about police showing up to the 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.040 Stop Line three camp and blocking off access to the road. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.520 This was at the same day that drilling under the 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.440 river was just being finished, and we so we suspected like, yeah, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.200 there's like embridges obviously talking with police to prevent people 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.720 from leaving so that they can they can finish up 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.040 this specific drilling project that was that was pretty obvious 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.960 to us at the scene. Um. And now we have, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.280 you know, extra confirmation that yeah, they do like meet 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.600 daily to coordinate these types of things. Um. So it's 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.480 good to have that extrame confirmation of the stuff we 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.640 already like suspected and stuff we already kind of like 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.920 put together through experience. But now we have like you know, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.800 court documents and records showing the extent of the coordination. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.680 All right, well we'll talk about terrorism, but you know 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.760 who else is a terrorist? Oh boy? The products and 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.360 services that support this podcast are all right in a 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:52.000 good way, you know, like um, you know, like uh 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:57.280 like uh kind of alright, well, it's it's complicated, all right, 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:10.719 do ads just run ads stuff? Oh so if it 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.600 will probably funnier if you bleep out the name of 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.920 the terrorist organization. This is how we this is how 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:22.360 we pick up from the ad brancast you say that. So, um, Garrison, 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.400 we got some some critiques that came in to the 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.080 old news line, by which I mean people deemed me 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:34.680 on redditch. Yeah. I never respond, Um, I almost never respond. 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:39.280 It's nothing against people. I just don't like being communicated with. Um, 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.559 but too many people, too many people ask me to 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.760 send messages to you and like, yeah, you're not I'm 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.480 not Like that's not welcome to the last three years 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.840 of my life. Uh yeah, anyway, Yeah, I mean, but 0:12:53.920 --> 0:13:02.640 that's funny, Sophie. Ah, you can say. Um, there were 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.280 people who were like, hey, I don't know if you 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.040 know this, but Earth First has a problematic history with 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.880 like eco fascism and that sort of stuff. Just like 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.400 that too. Yeah, and it's it's one of those things. 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.240 They definitely are an organization that has said things in 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.800 the past that I don't agree with. There's been specific 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.600 people who do organizing with them that don't have great 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.720 beliefs specifically around like you know, a lot of like 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:26.559 in the old Green movements has been you know, a 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.320 lot of like transphobia, some like racism. Um. It's it's 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.960 not because they're the green movements. Like all left spaces 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.360 deal with versions of variety stuff, you know, not like 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.760 respecting like indigenous people. Um. You know that that's been, 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.559 that's been a thing. Um. But the specific term eco fascism, 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:50.760 I believe is incorrect um because they don't advocate for 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.520 the genocide of a specific group. Um. And they don't 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.880 have like far right populist policies. So like, you can 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.560 have bad opinions and bad ideas and you can actually 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.760 be racist without actually being fascist, especially eco fascist. UM. 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:07.440 So I feel like people throw that word around a 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.920 lot and they don't actually know what it means. Um. 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.880 But what were you specifically referring to, Robert Um. I'm 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.800 trying to find the message here. But because I got 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.480 a message saying that Earth First is bad because they're 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.560 anti natalists, that means they're fascist, which isn't I defin't 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.000 really got that, yeah, which isn't actually like, I'm just 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:27.960 going to disagree with that actus. I don't think anti 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:33.040 natalism quits fascism, especially antien natalism. For like, antien natalism 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.400 is basically saying, don't don't make people, maybe we should, 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.240 maybe we should stop having more kids right now because 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:40.920 you have a lot of problems to deal with, and 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:43.760 maybe we shouldn't be having like, you know, three kids, 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.480 which is not it's not a take. I'm not an 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.400 anti natalist. I don't actually disagree with that take though, 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.000 but I think it's more in the line of, like, 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.000 the most fundamental of all human desires for the majority 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.640 of the population is to make more people, which is 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.720 kind of I like anti natalism because it has that 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.240 thing that's opposite to one of a lot of humans 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.760 natural reaction, and like, no one's forcing anti natalists don't 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.680 want to force you to be anti natalist. Bring up 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.160 this as an idea, Yeah, And I think it's a 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.520 valuable idea to discuss. And I don't think it's I 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.120 don't think you're I don't think you're embracing like the 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.520 massacre of human beings or genesis way by saying like, 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:26.400 I think it'd be best if we didn't make anymore. 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.240 I'm not planning a arguable point. I'm not planning to 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.320 have any kids because I don't see why it, especially 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.640 when there's so many like children that can be adopted, 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.000 and we talked about you having kids so we could 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.960 experiment with making them blue. This is a separate conversation 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.480 that we're not talking about involving. We are not talking 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:49.680 about this on the pot. We'll just include that tantalizing hint. 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.560 I also just think in general, when we talk about 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.640 a group that's had a long history and a specific 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.480 thing they're doing in the present, Yeah, this has happened 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.160 in other situation where people like, well, you know, they 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:01.720 did this or some one of them said this. And 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:03.880 there's a couple of things I feel about that. For 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:08.280 one thing, it's it's like it's entirely possible that the 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.480 people doing the thing in the present day have nothing 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.440 to do with the people twenty years ago. Yeah, like 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.720 most of the the people out there first gathering gathering were 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.200 like in their twenties and around my age, Like they 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.000 weren't in the they weren't in earth first night. Like 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.320 that's not like so I feel like silly about kind 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:28.280 of making them be held accountable for something somebody else 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.880 said under a similar decades ago. And on the podcast, 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.880 I talked about how like people on the Earth First 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:36.880 earth First Gathering like talked about this stuff like that. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.600 People talked about earth First like history and how they 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.080 haven't handled some issues very well. There was a lot 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.640 there was a massive effort for this gathering to like 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.800 um to like uplift and make sure everyone focuses on 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.160 indigenous voices, like they invited over multiple indigenous groups to 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.040 give talks on green resistance and like land back like that. 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.120 That was a big focus of like making sure that 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.000 this actually is something that has hurt because people know, 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:02.720 like this is, yeah, this is something important, this is 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.320 something that actually should be done. And there are I 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:10.320 think in general, and we talk about like holding organizations 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.320 and individuals accountable for their past. Um what matters is 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.880 like a mix of what they did and what they're doing. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.560 So obviously, if Earth First had been saying twenty years ago, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.160 we need to wipe out all the Jews, I would 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:24.960 be like I wouldn't care what they were saying. Now, 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:26.560 you know, it would be like, yeah, you can't really 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.040 come back from that. If you want to do a 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.600 completely different thing. It needs to be a new organization, don't. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.640 But they weren't. And I'm not saying that where I'm 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.399 just making an example, but like, as a rule, I 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.520 think we should embrace the fact that organizations and people 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.920 can change throughout time and be better than they were 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:46.200 in the past. Um and and learn from mistakes and flaws. 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.960 And I feel pretty unwilling to condemn individuals or organizations 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.040 for the mistakes of their past, although that is dependent 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:57.400 upon the kind of mistake and the harm that it cost. Yeah, 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.399 and like and how they address it in the few churks, 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:01.920 like a lot of these Yeah, because like it wasn't 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.359 like First as an overall organization of specific people they 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.840 were affiliated with, like you know specifically UM like UM. 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.639 Edward Abbey has said some not great things around different 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.840 different different social issues, and his books were extremely influential 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.840 on the beginning of green resistance. But that's something people 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:18.920 talk about now, Like that's something that is like discussed 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.479 and debated. UM. And he was and he was like 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.640 even in the eighties and nineties, he was like kicked 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:27.320 out of Earth First gatherings for kind of being a loser, 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.760 like for for having these bad views were like, yeah, 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:31.920 we probably shouldn't have you here anymore or leave go away, 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:33.879 So like that was something that was even talked about 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.200 back like back then as well, that is that isn't 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.040 just a modern thing. Yeah, And I think in general, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.679 number there's a couple of things. Number One, whenever we 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.600 talk about like an organization in a specific context they're 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.560 doing this, that doesn't mean we're embracing everything they've done. 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:52.400 And number two, whenever we talk about the history of 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.639 of of of a movement or a group, I hope 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.560 nobody ever takes that as like here is the authoritative 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.119 stance on the history of this thing. Like it's when 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.119 we talked about the Black Panthers. There's a bunch of 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.400 stuff we left out that's very important. Um My hope 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.320 with those episodes, and I hope with anything we do, 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.200 is that it like inspires people to want to learn 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.280 more and read more, and we're giving them a basis 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.320 of understanding that they can use to expand their knowledge 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.879 on an important topic. So please, we are we are. 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.760 There's like one thing, uh collectively that that Garrison and 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.359 I have any kind of expertise on, and uh, outside 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.000 of that, you should not take anything we say as like, 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:36.600 here's the comprehensive history of of this, because it's I 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.960 I understand one thing, and it's it's how the internet 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:46.479 makes people shitty. Yeah, so yeah, um yeah, I mean 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.080 that that was something that this whole thing was something 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:49.959 I thought about when writing these episodes is how much 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:51.800 to include of this stuff? And I did not feel 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.320 like it was super important to discuss this stuff because 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.320 it wasn't relevant to the topic of stop lines. I 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.800 think you didn't relevant to the topic of like the 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:00.840 current ongoing green ris systems. If we want to do 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.200 like a history of green activism, then yes, this is 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.919 something that that would be that. And I think like 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.679 at some point we probably should do absolutely about just 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.080 like Mirror and like all of that ship. But like that, 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.200 there's a kind of stuff we want to talk about 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.159 that we haven't yet because it's a daily show and 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:20.080 my God, give us some fucking time. People. Speaking of 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:27.520 Edward Abbey, you know what sells quality monkey wrenches? Okay, alright, 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:33.080 that's fine. The maybe one of our sponsors. It's I 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.639 hope so Ace hardware. It's hardware. As hardware sponsoring us, 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:38.600 they do sell you can get some good monkey wrenches 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:43.280 from Ace Hardware Quality for fixing your faucet, for fixing 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.800 your faucet. So go get wrench pilled and then listen 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:59.320 to the rest of the show. Well we're back. We 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:01.520 just had a discussion about what we're gonna talk about, 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.920 and we realized that it wasn't after the ad break, 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.520 So here we are. Um. In in early September, we 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:11.160 had an episodes about both California's climate and the ongoing 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:15.120 recall election against Gavin Newsom. So a few days after 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:17.480 our episodes dropped, the things like the day the day 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.000 the second one dropped was was election day? Um we 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:22.960 we we got the results in faster than what I 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:27.959