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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, there's Chuck,

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Speaker 2: there's Jerry, and you put the three of us together, sika, bassoon,

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Speaker 2: a tuba and an obo in our mouths. We'll pump

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Speaker 2: out some stuff you should.

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Speaker 1: Who plays what?

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Speaker 2: I play tuba?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I guess I'll play the obo that leaves Jerry

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Speaker 1: with a bassoon?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think that's fair.

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Speaker 1: That sounds right.

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Speaker 2: When I think Jerry, I think bassoon and vice versa.

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Speaker 1: Uh, that's right. So we need to thank Livia for

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Speaker 1: this one because she did a bang up job. And

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Speaker 1: we need to thank BBC Music Magazine and Andrew Green

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Speaker 1: because Livia and us got a lot of help from

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Speaker 1: Andrew Green's primer on conductors. Yeah, and this one was

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Speaker 1: my idea of because I think I just saw it.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't from seeing the movie Tar, even though I did

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Speaker 1: see that. I saw that in the theater a while

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Speaker 1: ago when it was out, But it kind of hit

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Speaker 1: me then, even like, what is such a weird job

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Speaker 1: that I know nothing about? And what are they doing

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Speaker 1: up there? And can anyone just get up there and

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Speaker 1: wave their arms around?

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Speaker 2: Sometimes from what I hear, Yes, there are some people

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Speaker 2: doing that out there.

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Speaker 1: But I found this thoroughly enjoyable to research and hopefully

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Speaker 1: talk about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good pick. I'm not sure I ever would have

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Speaker 2: gotten to this one, so good job.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: So I think I think you're probably in the majority

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Speaker 2: of people who don't really understand what a conductor does,

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Speaker 2: aside from standing up there and waving their arms. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know I was in that camp until fairly recently.

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Speaker 2: But the stuff you see conductors doing, which is again

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Speaker 2: conducting a symphony, waving their arms, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: methods to that seeming madness, and what you're seeing when

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Speaker 2: you see that a conductor conducting a symphony is the

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Speaker 2: culmination of a lot of other work that's done behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes before the performance that the conductor does. Like

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Speaker 2: they really earn their money from what I can.

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Speaker 1: Tell, Yeah, absolutely, And just to be clear, I'm not

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Speaker 1: such a rube that I was like, what are they

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Speaker 1: just waving their arms around? Because I grew up in choir,

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Speaker 1: singing tenor in the choir, and so I certainly had

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Speaker 1: my share of choral conductors doing that stuff at me,

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Speaker 1: So I get what's going on there. But I was

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Speaker 1: just trying to make a joke.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, I don't think anybody thought you were

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Speaker 2: a rube.

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Speaker 1: Well you never know, maybe.

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Speaker 2: A new listener, who knows, but you'd win them over

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Speaker 2: by the end of the episode, guaranteed.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a roob. I'm a tenor.

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Speaker 2: You're a tenor. Huh. I've never really been much of

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Speaker 2: a singer, even though I sang in a band, but

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Speaker 2: as a reminder, then broke up and reformed without me.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah, satis Josh stories.

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Speaker 2: But also one of the most telling, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: No. Should we go back in time though, please, So

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Speaker 1: when you first joined that band.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to take another shot at it.

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Speaker 1: No, we're going to go back in time to tell

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Speaker 1: you about the history of conducting. And this is sort

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Speaker 1: of prehistory stuff, because conducting an orchestra to perform a

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Speaker 1: symphonic orchestral piece wasn't really a thing early on as

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Speaker 1: far as using a conductor. That it started with what

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Speaker 1: I was talking about, which was choral music and vocal music.

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Speaker 1: And we're talking you know, in the early century CE

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Speaker 1: there were people that would keep a beat and stomp

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Speaker 1: a foot or wave their arms around to get a

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Speaker 1: choir on point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because one of the really important things to remember

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Speaker 2: throughout this episode is that when you're playing music by yourself,

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Speaker 2: you have to to keep on tempo. But as you

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Speaker 2: add other people, whether you're playing music or singing, as

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Speaker 2: you had other people, they have to keep on tempo too,

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Speaker 2: but you all have to keep on the same tempo. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it really does help to have one person who's

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Speaker 2: keeping the tempo for everybody else. And that became a

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Speaker 2: parent very early on, and that does seem to be

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Speaker 2: kind of like the predecessor to the conductor, but it

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Speaker 2: wasn't until the i think eighteenth and nineteenth century. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that kind of transition between the two where what we

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Speaker 2: think of as a conductor today kind of came along.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was you know, choirs got bigger,

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Speaker 1: orchestras got bigger. You know, early on you might have

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Speaker 1: you know, a six piece ensemble or a four piece

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Speaker 1: or maybe you know, it would even climb as high

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Speaker 1: as like you know, fifteen or twenty what. And in

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Speaker 1: those days, you would have somebody that was actually playing

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Speaker 1: in that orchestra keeping the time. A lot of times

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Speaker 1: it was a violinist and they would use their bow

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Speaker 1: to tap things out or wave the bow around a little.

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably due to the fact that a

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Speaker 1: bow you can see even when you're sitting down, you

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Speaker 1: can hold it up and people can see it. Also,

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Speaker 1: a violinist, a violin is very small. It would you know,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't ask the tuba player even though the tuba

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Speaker 1: is the bass and the bass is me the beat

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Speaker 1: that would be you. It'd be hard to like keep

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Speaker 1: the beat and play the tuba at the same like

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Speaker 1: indicate the beat to the rest of your orchestra while

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Speaker 1: playing the tuba.

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Speaker 2: I would think it'd be hard to conduct while playing

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Speaker 2: the violin too.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're not doing it while you're playing, because the

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Speaker 1: violin isn't always playing, Okay, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like during the time where the like,

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Speaker 1: because they're not waving their bow around and also playing

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Speaker 1: at the same time. That's impossible.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's get and go see ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's someone They've got a bow in their

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Speaker 1: hand and they're playing the violin and they certainly are

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Speaker 1: not able to wave it around at the same time.

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Speaker 2: All right, here's your five bucks.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, let's go forward.

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Speaker 2: It does seem, then, yes, to have started with the

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Speaker 2: violinists who apparently did conduct while they weren't playing. Also

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Speaker 2: the keyboardist whoever was playing like the piano or the

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Speaker 2: harpsichord or something like that, they might be doing it too.

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Speaker 2: But the reason why, even as impressive as it is

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Speaker 2: for somebody to be in the actual orchestra playing music

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Speaker 2: and then also conducting, whether they're playing at the moment

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Speaker 2: or not, it's pretty impressive. But one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: it was possible is because technically speaking, or comparatively speaking,

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Speaker 2: the music that was being made until the early nineteenth

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Speaker 2: century was fairly predictable, like it stayed on this a

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Speaker 2: general tempo. It didn't have all sorts of like sudden

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Speaker 2: surprising changes in twists and turns, so you could actually

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Speaker 2: keep an orchestra together while you were playing the violin

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Speaker 2: or in between the moments you were playing the violin.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't until Beethoven came along that the real need

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Speaker 2: for a person whose entire job it was was to

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Speaker 2: conduct everybody else playing the music, that really became a

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Speaker 2: necessary role.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely in the classical era, and that's not classical

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Speaker 1: music is the broad term, but classical with a capital C,

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Speaker 1: which is to say, the period from seventeen fifty to

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Speaker 1: eighteen thirty. Yeah, a lot of times you had composers

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Speaker 1: that would step in and conduct their own orchestras. Mozart

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Speaker 1: certainly did things like that. And these were as orchestras

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Speaker 1: were growing. I mentioned, you know, the size of the

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Speaker 1: orchestras being maybe as you know, small chamber groups and

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Speaker 1: things like that. As it got bigger and bigger and

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Speaker 1: you had, you know, thirty forty fifty people in an orchestra,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't do to have that violinist. So the composer

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Speaker 1: themselves would lead the orchestra. And then, like you said,

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Speaker 1: once Beethoven came along and brought his really groundbreaking compositions,

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Speaker 1: that they needed a conductor. A lot of times it

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Speaker 1: was still the composer, but then came the idea of

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Speaker 1: someone that didn't compose it, is not playing in it,

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Speaker 1: and that the only job they have is to direct

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Speaker 1: the orchestra.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's a great story that seems to be

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Speaker 2: true and accurate that at the debut of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony,

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Speaker 2: which is the Ode to Joy, which is the part

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Speaker 2: of which is playing when they opened the vault and

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Speaker 2: die hard.

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Speaker 1: That's what it's best known for.

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Speaker 2: I think he wanted to conduct it himself, but he

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Speaker 2: had fallen death by then. Well he was Beethoven, this

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Speaker 2: is his ninth he'd already made a name for himself

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Speaker 2: even during his lifetime. So they led him. But they

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Speaker 2: had another conductor, the real conductor that the orchestra was

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Speaker 2: instructed to follow, because Beethoven was not able to keep

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Speaker 2: on time and conduct the symphony correctly. So apparently when

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Speaker 2: the whole thing ended, he was still conducting and somebody

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Speaker 2: had to tap him on the arm and be like,

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Speaker 2: turn around. The audience is applauding for you right now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Is that scene is captured very very well in

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Speaker 1: the Boogey Beethoven movie Bookie Knights and Immortal Beloved, the

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Speaker 1: great movie about Beethoven.

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Speaker 2: Gary Oldman, Oh, yeah, is it good?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. I haven't seen it in a long time,

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Speaker 1: but I loved it back then, and also I was able.

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Speaker 1: It was lucky enough. I was so broke back when

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Speaker 1: I was living in New Jersey back in the nineties.

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Speaker 2: But how broke?

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Speaker 1: Were you so broke that the only way to get

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Speaker 1: into Carnegie Hall, not practice to see Beethoven's Ninth Symphony

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Speaker 1: performed by the New York Philharmonic, was to hand out the.

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Speaker 2: Hour later.

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Speaker 1: No, no, the the not the bulletin, just the program

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Speaker 1: for the performance. Yeah, like the playbill. Somehow got on

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Speaker 1: that little volunteer staff. Oh, and they're like, you can

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Speaker 1: hand out these playbills and then you can stay and

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Speaker 1: see the performance. And so I got to see O

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Speaker 1: de Joy at the Carnegie Hall and oh wow, with

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Speaker 1: a full German choir, and it was just like unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: So you go, hey, what's that guy doing waving his

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Speaker 2: hands around?

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Speaker 1: I did.

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Speaker 2: Back. Let's get serious, though, Chuck. Okay, we said that

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Speaker 2: Beethoven was the reason why conducting became a necessity because

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Speaker 2: the music he was making was so complex that it

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Speaker 2: required way more people, like you said, and the more

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Speaker 2: people play saying, the more you need a conductor. And

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Speaker 2: so it was actually more about just keeping tempo as

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Speaker 2: it had been when you had the violinists like waving

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Speaker 2: their bow or some dude smacking his foot on the ground.

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Speaker 2: Even before then, it was about like actually interpreting the

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Speaker 2: music because the more dense and expressive and sophisticated the score.

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Speaker 2: The harder it is to write out exactly what every

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Speaker 2: single instrument is supposed to be doing at every single

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Speaker 2: moment in exactly what way. So there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of interpretation left and that role fell on the conductor,

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Speaker 2: And here we finally reached what a conductor really does.

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Speaker 2: This is like the foundation. The basis of their job

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Speaker 2: is interpreting the score and then getting the orchestra to

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Speaker 2: produce the sounds that meet that interpretation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You know, even something written by Beethoven or

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Speaker 1: Wagner or something, it can be pretty detailed. But like

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Speaker 1: you said, there's there's no way to indicate every single

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Speaker 1: nuance that comes through in an orchestral performance by writing

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Speaker 1: it down on paper, and that's where interpretation can come from.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I believe it was Heyden and Mozart both

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Speaker 1: at times didn't indicate tempo like super clearly for things,

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Speaker 1: and they had the expectation that, hey, you know, the

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Speaker 1: musician should get in there and understand the spirit of

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Speaker 1: what's happening and they will instinctively kind of go to

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Speaker 1: what the right speed is. So that's where interpretation comes in, certainly,

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Speaker 1: not to you know, change the actual notes. But there's

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Speaker 1: so much more beyond the actual notes that goes into

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Speaker 1: a performance.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, And there was a I guess I think

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Speaker 2: Mahler had a second symphony where he noted that trombones, violins,

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Speaker 2: and viola should only play if necessary to prevent the

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Speaker 2: chorus from deflating. And I mean that who's going to

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Speaker 2: decide whether the chorus is deflating or not the conductor.

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Speaker 2: So as that music became more and more sophisticated, the

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Speaker 2: need for conductor became greater and greater. And I say

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Speaker 2: we take a break and we'll rejoin the conducting profession

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Speaker 2: afterward in about the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 1: Great, all right, so I guess we'll talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about how this happens, right, Like what happened? If

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Speaker 1: you're a conductor and you're like, here's the piece that

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Speaker 1: you're going to play for the Christmas concert in Atlanta

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Speaker 1: this December, first thing you're going to do as a conductor,

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Speaker 1: and really want to recommend this wired video on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: It's an interview with a conductor named Kent Tritele tr

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Speaker 1: I t l E. I can't remember exactly what the

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Speaker 1: video is, but it's just a really good interview with

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Speaker 1: an actual conductor kind of talking about the job of conducting,

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Speaker 1: and Kent points out that like kind of what you wanted,

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Speaker 1: what you're trying to do when you first get that piece,

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Speaker 1: and this is you know, you're not in a room

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Speaker 1: with the orchestra at this point. You're on your own.

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Speaker 1: It's like a movie director or a play director getting

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Speaker 1: a script. You want to really just figure out the

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Speaker 1: architecture of the piece as a whole and really dig

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Speaker 1: into every instrumental part, like every single one. You have

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Speaker 1: to know a understand where they come in, where they

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Speaker 1: come out, where it should be a rising sound or

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Speaker 1: falling sound, and of course there's great Italian names for

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, whether it should be punchy or whether

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Speaker 1: it should be flowy, and sort of notate just like

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Speaker 1: you would break down a movie script or something or

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Speaker 1: replace script, just the architecture and the feeling that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to convey and really just take note of all

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Speaker 1: that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So, I mean that's like the first step in

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Speaker 2: putting on a symphony concert, Like that's what the conductor

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Speaker 2: has to do is go through and figure out how

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Speaker 2: they're going to present it. And then comes the time

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Speaker 2: where you have to teach or work with all of

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Speaker 2: the musicians that are going to perform this with you

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Speaker 2: to explain this is how we're going to do it.

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Speaker 2: And there's a couple of ways to do this, and

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Speaker 2: one was practiced by some of the most well known

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Speaker 2: conductors of the twentieth century. It is like the Golden

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Speaker 2: Age of conductors. One was that you could be a

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Speaker 2: dictator and a jerk and what was known as now

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Speaker 2: kind of derogatorily is a maestro. That was one way

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Speaker 2: to do it. Fortunately, there seems to be a much

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Speaker 2: larger push these days toward much more communal I guess,

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Speaker 2: a nicer, kinder, gentler way of approaching it, working together

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Speaker 2: rather than bossing around, and that that's kind of the

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Speaker 2: way that composers seemed to do it. Apparently there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of there's some old maestro is still working, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and that a lot of people are waiting for them

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Speaker 2: to die apparently. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the collaborative approach in general and the arts

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Speaker 1: can be a great way to go. Although all tourship

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Speaker 1: and films and I guess the maestro, maestroness, you know,

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Speaker 1: some people made great work doing that stuff. So it's

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Speaker 1: not to say that that can't work, but it just

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Speaker 1: seems as a whole like the arts have become a

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Speaker 1: little more collaborative. Sure in the last fifty years, forty years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I read a really good description of that. It

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Speaker 2: was a blog post from the Symphony Nova Scotia, their

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Speaker 2: director of music, their lead conductor, Holly Mathieson wrote, Maestro

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Speaker 2: maestra or Holly and it's about, you know, which one

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Speaker 2: does she want to be called? And she goes kind

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Speaker 2: of into detail about, you know, the history of those

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Speaker 2: ill tempered, mean, dictatorial maestro maestros. I can't remember what

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Speaker 2: the plural would be. I guess maestree.

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Speaker 1: I think it would No, I mean that sounds right,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Just going to keep with maestros. That like how that's

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Speaker 2: changed and how like you said, it's become much more

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Speaker 2: collaborative over time. So it was definitely worth reading. It

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Speaker 2: gives a really clear picture of, you know, just a

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Speaker 2: couple of different approaches to the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. What is also can kind of vary

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Speaker 1: as how, you know, how flashy they are and how

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Speaker 1: much attention they might be trying to draw. Because if

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Speaker 1: you've ever seen a conductor who is really getting down

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Speaker 1: up there. They may just be feeling that passion and

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Speaker 1: just getting into it. They may have an ego which

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Speaker 1: is saying, look at me, look at me. That certainly happens,

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Speaker 1: but not always. Sometimes they're you know, everyone has their

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Speaker 1: own their own style. Sometimes there's not much emotion. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: you know, you're they have their back to the audience,

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Speaker 1: so the only time you're going to see their faces,

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Speaker 1: and like a televised performance or something like, that's what

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Speaker 1: your orchestra is seeing. But I do want to recommend

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Speaker 1: another video. I hope you watched this one that just

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Speaker 1: look up Candide the dancing conductor on YouTube and his

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Speaker 1: conductor named our Old Fear Wits.

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Speaker 2: I guess I am going with the left for Wits.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going with whatever he wants to be called,

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Speaker 1: because this guy is a treasure and the fun and

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Speaker 1: emotion that he has while he's conducting is just infectious,

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Speaker 1: and I just I want to, like, I want to

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Speaker 1: hug this guy. I want to have him over for dinner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I saw that, you know, he's kind of

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Speaker 2: putting it on pretty thick because he knew that this

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Speaker 2: was being filmed. But it does. I've seen other stuff

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Speaker 2: of his too, when he's you know, a little more subdued,

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Speaker 2: but compared to other conductors, he's you know, very expressive.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you definitely want to hang out with him

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Speaker 2: and maybe give him a hug here or there, just

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Speaker 2: because he seems like a great guy.

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Speaker 1: Seems dude.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's I mean, that's what the public, the

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Speaker 2: concert going public who don't really know what's going on,

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Speaker 2: tend to notice the most. But the the behind the

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Speaker 2: scenes work that leads up to that. Again, when you're

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Speaker 2: interpreting a score, you have to figure that out yourself,

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Speaker 2: and then you start working with the musicians. You have

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Speaker 2: to work with every single musician to get the absolute

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Speaker 2: most out of them. You have to gain their trust.

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Speaker 2: And if you can gain their trust, then you can

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Speaker 2: actually get them to play the way you want. If

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Speaker 2: they don't trust you, they're going to kind of go

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Speaker 2: around your back and collaborate together without you, kind of

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Speaker 2: like me. It's the lead singer of that band I

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Speaker 2: was in in dust school, right. They were not listening

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Speaker 2: to me or following my lead. And I saw a

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Speaker 2: great quote about that. There's an ama on Reddit with

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Speaker 2: a conductor from twenty eighteen and this conductor who I

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Speaker 2: think was at the Flagstaff Symphony at the time, they

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Speaker 2: said that when a bad conductor makes a mistake, no

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Speaker 2: one notices. When a good conductor makes a mistake, it's

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Speaker 2: a disaster. And that's because the symphony doesn't follow a

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Speaker 2: bad conductor, so when he makes a mistake, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: translate through to the symphony. But a good conductor, if

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Speaker 2: they make a mistake, the symphony is actually following them,

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Speaker 2: and so that mistake gets telegraphed through the actual sound.

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Speaker 2: So that's a huge part of it is gaining the

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Speaker 2: trust and the respect of your orchestra, and one of

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Speaker 2: the ways that you do that is working closely with them,

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Speaker 2: but also knowing what you're talking about. You have to

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Speaker 2: be a master not necessarily how to play, but in

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Speaker 2: understanding how every single instrument, what you can get out

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Speaker 2: of it, and how to do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So, you know, backing up a little bit,

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Speaker 1: if you want to get this job, the first thing

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Speaker 1: you have to do, basically is get a degree in music.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that that's a requirement as far as

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Speaker 1: like a standard or anything, but I can't imagine anyone

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Speaker 1: rising to the level of you know, kind of prominent

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Speaker 1: conductor that didn't have a degree in music. So you

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Speaker 1: have your degree in music, you are almost one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent of the time a former player in an orchestra.

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Speaker 1: You can just you know, be someone who can play

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Speaker 1: an instrument and decides right away you want to get

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Speaker 1: into conducting. So you you go to a civic group

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Speaker 1: or a high school and you kind of start and

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Speaker 1: work your way up. But chances are you have played

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Speaker 1: in an orchestra and that you can play at least

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Speaker 1: one instrument very very very well, at a very high level,

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Speaker 1: probably like orchestral professional orchestra level, right, But chances are

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Speaker 1: that conductor plays more than one instrument, you know, that

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Speaker 1: can play a little violin, a little piano, maybe even

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Speaker 1: a little tube every now and then you never know.

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Speaker 2: Well then they've captured my heart.

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Speaker 1: But if you are that conductor, usually like in a

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Speaker 1: if you're the conductor for like a city, uh and

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Speaker 1: there and their their symphony, then you are probably also

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Speaker 1: the music director. So your job is not just like

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Speaker 1: all right, I got to get this piece together. It's

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Speaker 1: I have a full time job of running being the

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Speaker 1: musical director, running this program, working with a community any

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Speaker 1: sort of like kind of stuff the conductors probably don't

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Speaker 1: love doing as far as like, oh, if you've got

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Speaker 1: you got to go to dinner with these fund funders

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Speaker 1: and people who are raising money, like all the kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff that goes along with just as you would

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Speaker 1: if you were if you ran a theater and you

404
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Speaker 1: were directing plays, like the directing of the play is

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Speaker 1: the least of your job at times, I'm sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good analogy too. Like imagine that

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00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 2: you have like a good like a playhouse in your town. Yeah,

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00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 2: there's like one person who's like running the playhouse, and

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Speaker 2: they're probably also the lead director. They're the director who

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Speaker 2: has the highest esteem among the directors probably other directors

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Speaker 2: that work for too. Same thing. With a symphony or

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Speaker 2: an opera, you have a lead conductor who's probably also

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Speaker 2: the musical director, so that in addition to conducting symphonies,

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Speaker 2: they have to do all the other stuff that you

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Speaker 2: said too. And then there's assistant directors who might direct

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Speaker 2: a symphony and they help in other ways, but they

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Speaker 2: don't have the responsibility heaped on them that the music

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Speaker 2: musical director does as well. I saw it down to

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Speaker 2: things like helping design and approve those those programs that

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Speaker 2: you were handing out to get into. Yeah, they have

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00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: their their hands and like basically everything that's going on

422
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Speaker 2: for you know, a particular symphony that they're they're working on.

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Speaker 1: They have their fingers in every woodwind hole. Yeah, let's

424
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Speaker 1: probably have a name.

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Speaker 2: Uh, I think it's just holes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah great, Hey.

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Speaker 2: You nailed it.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the baton a little bit because when

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Speaker 1: I when I asked Livia to help us with this article,

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Speaker 1: I specifically said, you know, what's up with the history

431
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 1: of that thing and what's it all about? And it

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Speaker 1: hopefully comes as no surprise that the baton is is

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Speaker 1: not some magical wand that a magician might use. It's

434
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Speaker 1: just something that's bigger and then you can see it

435
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: better and it's more wavy, and it allows you to

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00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: make bigger gestures. Not all conductors use the wand or

437
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: the baton, but most of them do these days. And

438
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: I think you generally kind of think of that baton

439
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: being held in the hand when you think of a conductor.

440
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently you can thank Louis Spoor, the German composer

441
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 2: and conductor from the I guess early nineteenth century for

442
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: adopting the baton first, And it was a kind of

443
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: a cone shaped wooden implement at first, And then I'm

444
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 2: sure Louis born. People who follow were like, I'm getting

445
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: carpal tunnel here. Can we use something a little a

446
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: little lighter, a little thinner, And so the baton kind

447
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: of evolved became longer, a little pointier. It used to

448
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: be made of wood or ebony. Today it's much more

449
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: likely to be made of like like carbon fiber or

450
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, high tech stuff. And I saw

451
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: that they're between about ten to twenty six inches in length.

452
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: And what they're doing with that, it's like you said,

453
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 2: it emphasizes gestures. And the reason why most conductors do

454
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: use a baton is because the size of symphonies today

455
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: are so huge. The people in the back need to

456
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 2: see your hands and what they're doing a lot better

457
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: than they would have if you had just like a

458
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: twenty piece group that you know, we're all sitting all

459
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 2: close up on you.

460
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, did I get that across?

461
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 2: I want to make sure because I can say it

462
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 2: all over again.

463
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: I think you got across. Okay again, I want to

464
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: recommend that Kent Tritle wired video because over about twelve minutes,

465
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: an actual conductor really breaks down what they're doing with

466
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: their hands. And I'm not going to just repeat what

467
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: he said or pretend to actually understand all of that,

468
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: but overall what's going on is because most people are

469
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: right handed, the right hand is generally the one with

470
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 1: a baton, and it's generally the metronome. It's the timekeeper,

471
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: and that is one of the biggest parts to the

472
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: job still is keeping the time for everyone to see.

473
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 1: And you have to be really, really, really good at it.

474
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: You got to have a great, great sense of tempo.

475
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: You know, a drummer probably obviously is somebody who would

476
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: be a little more prone to be a good conductor,

477
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: I would imagine. But it's very hard to do because,

478
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 1: as Kent Tritele explains, keeping time period is hard and

479
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: when he has students, the first lesson is literally just

480
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: keeping a sixty second beat, so lowering your hand and

481
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: stopping at the bottom every second to a click track

482
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 1: or a metronome, And he said, doing that is just

483
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: hard enough. But then when you add you know, one

484
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty beats a minute, that's still kind of

485
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: easy because it's just double. But what if it's one

486
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty two, one hundred and forty one right,

487
00:27:54,359 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: seventy three, and you're in this performance and you're adrenaline

488
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: and is surging, and somebody might mess up or do

489
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: something and that makes you takes you out of your

490
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 1: mindset and you have to like throw out all that

491
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: emotion and still be able to keep that perfect beat

492
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: with your right hand for everyone to see.

493
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because the point he was making was that when

494
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 2: when somebody does mess up, or when you're adrenaline is surging,

495
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: time starts to take different shape than it does like

496
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: under normal circumstances when everything is calm and you're just rehearsing.

497
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: But you have to be able to keep that sense

498
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 2: of time no matter what the circumstance. I just think

499
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 2: it's amazing.

500
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like a drummer in a rock band, you know,

501
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: it's it's very common when you perform like a show out,

502
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: that you play all of your songs faster than you

503
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: do in a rehearsal because you're up there, you're jazz,

504
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, that drummer behind you instead

505
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: of one two, three four counting it out. It's like, well, two, three, four,

506
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: and you're the ramones.

507
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: Right, pretty great, No, the ruins are great.

508
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's just sort of a thing. And it's

509
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: kind of the same thing. You have to be able

510
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,239
Speaker 1: to block all that out. You're keeping time with that

511
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: right hand and then your left hand. The other thing

512
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: your right hand is doing is not just tempo, but entrance,

513
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: like when you would wait for the strings to come in.

514
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: Your left hand is generally indicating the exit and then

515
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: everything else the emotion, the flow, the rising and falling,

516
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: whether or not it's punchy and staccato or like really flowy.

517
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: So smooth is Billy D.

518
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: It smooth as Billy D. And while you're doing that

519
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: with that left hand and pointing at you know, the

520
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: brass section to stop, you still have to be keeping

521
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: that perfect beat with the right hand. So again, like

522
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: a drummer, you have to have real independence of your

523
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: left and right hand.

524
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the left hand can't know what the right hand

525
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: is doing, and vice versa. Yeah, And that takes a

526
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: lot of practice too, not just keeping time, but like

527
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: making your hands do different things at different time while

528
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: also keeping tempo. It is like like that's why there's

529
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: just really a handful of people running around on the

530
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: planet right now. We're qualified to conduct an orchestra because

531
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: of all the effort and training and understanding that it

532
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: takes to do that. I mean, I thought that was

533
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: pretty neat before, but it was just so alien to

534
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 2: me that I just kind of admired it out of

535
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 2: its status in the world of art high art. Now

536
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: that I understand it even more, I admire it even further.

537
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: I mean, like just what they do is mind blowing.

538
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's super cool. And just to put a little

539
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: button real quick because I know we'll probably get letters.

540
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: You know, the right hand is keeping that beat, and

541
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: I said, it's always sort of doing that, but the

542
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: right hand can take breaks from just that metronomic rhythmic

543
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: thing that you're doing. Because sometimes you'll see a conductor

544
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: using both hands kind of mirroring one another and opposite directions.

545
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: That's when you know, you might be a big sweeping

546
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: sort of motion with both hands, but then it'll go

547
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: back to kind of keeping that beat. But there are

548
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: little breaks here and there with that tempo.

549
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. The only thing is is if you're giving your

550
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: right hand a break, you don't want to shake the

551
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: wrist out or else. Security impact the score. Oh, that's

552
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: one thing I said, It impacts the score. The other

553
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: thing about the conductor is they're the only person in

554
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: that whole orchestra up there performing that has the entire

555
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: score in front of them. All the other people are

556
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: playing the violent parts, or the tuba parts, or the

557
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 2: obo or bassoon parts. That's what they have in front

558
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 2: of them. They don't know, at least not on paper,

559
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: what the people around them are playing, so they have

560
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: to rely on the conductor to help to help them

561
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: understand who's doing what by watching the conductor at any

562
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: given moment.

563
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I couldn't find, And I know

564
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: someone will know this because I know for sure we've

565
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: had listeners that play in orchestras. But what actually do

566
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: they have in front of them, as like a violinist.

567
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: I know it's obviously the violin part, but is it

568
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: just the violin pages or is it.

569
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: Like really like a Hustler magazine.

570
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: Or or they're you know, like, you can't just only

571
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: have your thing. You've got to know kind of what

572
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: else is going on a little bit No, because it

573
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: seems like that'd be like having only your lines in

574
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: a script, right.

575
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 2: I think that's why some conductors are dictators. There can

576
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: be dictators because you are so reliant on them. And

577
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: I think you figure it out during practice and rehearsal,

578
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: like you understand. But I think, well, what I saw,

579
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: they have just their their part in front of them.

580
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: So there's no you know, spaces in between that says

581
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: like woodwind part or anything like that.

582
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if it says that, but it wouldn't

583
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: have the notes the woodwinds are playing.

584
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying anything to

585
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: indicate where they are in the piece. That's not only

586
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: I see. Yeah, like a framework.

587
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: I have no idea. I can make up an answer

588
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: if you want, please do. Uh. No, they don't have

589
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: any frame of reference.

590
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: Now we'll hear from someone and we'll follow up on that.

591
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: I say, we take another break. I'm two for two

592
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: for calling the breaks today.

593
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: Nice work.

594
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: Uh And then we'll come back and we'll talk about well, well,

595
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: we'll answer a question. Okay, I'm not even gonna say

596
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: what the question is.

597
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: I think they know.

598
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: All right, Chuck, So here's the question. Do you really

599
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: need a conductor to perform a symphony as an orchestra,

600
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 2: Well do you huh?

601
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question, because you know when you see that

602
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: kind of showmanship up there, and you might think, I mean,

603
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: for me personally, I'm there for that, like I want

604
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: to see my conductor just going off, and I want

605
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: to see hair flying around yea, and I want to

606
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: see somebody really getting into it. Other might people might

607
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: be turned off by that. We should mention that. Tritle

608
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: and others confirmed that, like, hey, that's that's part of it.

609
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: But you can't let that, let that get in the

610
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: way of things. But all that sort of leads to

611
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 1: what you're saying is like, do we even need these

612
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: people up there?

613
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: Uh?

614
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: And there have been efforts to find that out right.

615
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a very famous conductor named Andre Previn who

616
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: I've even heard of. He too, is or was, I'm

617
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: not sure when he stopped. He was definitely performing up

618
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: until recently if he's not still, but he was the

619
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra. When a TV documentary

620
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,959
Speaker 2: back in nineteen seventy three was made, it was called

621
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 2: Who Needs a Conductor? Yeah, And he started out conducting

622
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: the London Symphony Orchestra with Beethoven's Fifth Right, Yeah, they

623
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: get started and going and he's conducting, and then all

624
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: of a sudden he just stops and exits the stage,

625
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: and the orchestra just keeps going without literally without missing

626
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 2: a beat, and they perform Beethoven's Fifth Symphony for the

627
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: rest of the time without any incident or hardship. And

628
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 2: that does kind of lead to the question like, could

629
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: you just do away with conductors? The answer seems to

630
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 2: be to an extent, but you really wouldn't want the

631
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: results as like a concert going public, and really no,

632
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 2: the answers kind of no, you don't want to do

633
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: away with conductors.

634
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think a lot of it has to

635
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: do with everything we talked about that has everything to

636
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: do with anything other than just standing there and your arms,

637
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: like all the preparation, leading the rehearsal, being the director

638
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: of their performance. And Livia points out that you know

639
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: that singular sort of vision for how you're going to

640
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: do the piece. If you don't have that, then it's

641
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: not saying that people will all just be doing their

642
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: own thing and it would be garbage, but getting everyone

643
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 1: on the same page eventually which is where you would

644
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: have to get to to perform it in front of people.

645
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,439
Speaker 1: I would think that would just be a nightmare trying

646
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: to get that many people on the same page as

647
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: far as that interpretation.

648
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, think about it. If you've got a

649
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: beef between your tuba player and your bassoon player, and

650
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: everybody is talking about how, you know, how this one

651
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: part's going to be played, and they're disagreeing, who's gonna

652
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 2: win out right? That's where the conductor comes in. The

653
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: conductor says, I'm winning out both of you. Shut up,

654
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: shut up, and they sit down and shut up, and

655
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: you do what the conductor tells him to.

656
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, tuba would win though, because the old saying in

657
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: the in the symphony, you don't with the tuba player.

658
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: It's true. Goodbye sixth grade classes.

659
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: Right, So should we mention if you mentioned Andre Previn?

660
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: Of course? Should we go over a few of these

661
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: other famous conductors.

662
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's start with Tuscanini.

663
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mean Arturo Tuscanini.

664
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 2: Very nice. That is a spinning image impression of how

665
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: Tuscanini talked.

666
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: So Tuscanini was obviously Italian, directed the met Opera in

667
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: New York and Tuscanini sort of spanned a couple of

668
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: time periods I'm bridging the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, and

669
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: was a child prodigy and kind of one thing he

670
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: was known for was his photographic memory, such that his

671
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: eyesight failed later in his career and he still could

672
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: conduct because he had these orchestral pieces, you know, just

673
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: committed to his memory.

674
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and apparently he was one of the ones who

675
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: started to form this image of like the temperamental, dictatorial conductor, right, Yeah,

676
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 2: But I also read that he was very well known

677
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: for working very closely with musicians to help get things,

678
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 2: you know, hammered out like he was a dedicated leader.

679
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: I guess so he you know, he was a very

680
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,959
Speaker 2: complex and complicated person, and he helped kind of lay

681
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: the groundwork for what the general public understood is the

682
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: maestro and what was acceptable, some of which is kind

683
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: of unacceptable. But he overall seems to have been generally,

684
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: at the very least a great conductor, if not a

685
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: you know, so so person. But you know who isn't.

686
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know it's a position of power. And

687
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: have you seen the movie.

688
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: Tar I No, I don't know what you're talking about.

689
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: It's oh god is Tar? No? No, oh god, no,

690
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: people are screaming at me right now. It's uh. It's

691
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: a movie about a woman who is a conductor, made

692
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: by Todd Fields, one of the few movies he's directed. Oh,

693
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: Kate Blanchad, of course.

694
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: Oh you're talking about Tron.

695
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: Oh man, you just you're you're in a roll today.

696
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: Huh uh No, this is out a couple of years ago.

697
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: I feel like, no, I haven't heard of it. Yeah,

698
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, t Ar. And it's a movie about

699
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: a woman, Lydia Tar, who is a conductor, and kind

700
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: of like a little bit of the how power can

701
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: go wrong in that position, And it just seems like

702
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: it is one of those positions where you know, hopefully

703
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: you use your power wisely, but like you mentioned, with

704
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: these temper tantrums and dictator dictatorial sort of methods, it's

705
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: definitely a position that can historically get out of hand.

706
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: Oh and Tuscanini also is well known for as a

707
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: philanderer too, And I think that that was a big

708
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 2: deal during the twentieth century for some of those maestro conductors.

709
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 2: They were playboys, to say the least. For sure, and

710
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 2: they did, and they found some of their conquests from

711
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 2: their orchestra. And yeah, I mean today we look back

712
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: when we're like, yes, that's an abusive power. You're abusing

713
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: your power because you're in such a powerful position. These

714
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 2: people are looking up to you, and you're leveraging that

715
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: to sleep with them. So that's like one of the

716
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: big criticisms that twentieth century maestro have leveled at them.

717
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: And then they say like, hey, we were all like

718
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 2: Boomers and Boomer's parents. This is what we did.

719
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: Well, talking and touches on that stuff. So I think

720
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: you'd like it. You and you me should watch it.

721
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 2: Oh, I like Kate Blanchette any day, she's great.

722
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: I'll mention Leonard Bernstein another famous conductor. Yeah, he's great,

723
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: gentleman from Massachusetts, from Lawrence, mass and was the first

724
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: American conductor and musical director of the New York Philharmonic

725
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: from fifty eight to sixty nine and really just sort

726
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: of brought classical music to a really big audience. And

727
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 1: one thing we haven't talked about is just the impact

728
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,479
Speaker 1: that the recording industry and recording orchestras did not only

729
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: for just making classical music and orchestral music more popular

730
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: and bringing it to the masses, but making some of

731
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: these conductors stars because the record you got wasn't just

732
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: Beethoven's Knight. That was you know, Leonard Bernstein and the

733
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: New York Philharmonic to Beethoven's Knight.

734
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty cool. We also we can't not mention von Carrion,

735
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 2: Herbert von Carrajon. He was one of those bad boy maestros,

736
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: but he was also well known as being like one

737
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: of the greatest that's ever lived too. Like that's the

738
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: other thing too, That's why these guys got away with

739
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: this is because they were so good at what they did.

740
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: They were just looked up to in so many ways.

741
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 2: It just excused all this other behavior. And then there's yeah,

742
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: that's one thing. I'm glad you brought that up. Carayon

743
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: was a literal Nazi. He was born in Austria. He

744
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: was a member of the Nazi Party, and he's like,

745
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 2: we're just gonna leave that behind the past. Let's not

746
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 2: talk about that anymore.

747
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was to be fair, he was cleared by

748
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: an Allied tribunal, but that sort of followed him through

749
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: his career for sure, as it does, even though it

750
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: didn't seem to hurt it that much.

751
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: No. On the other side of the isle is Carlos Kleeber,

752
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 2: whose father Eric Kleeber, was also a conductor, and they

753
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 2: left Germany because of the Nazis because they were like

754
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 2: Nazis suck. So they moved to Argentina and Carlos Kleeber

755
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 2: developed his craft there and became a very well known

756
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: not just conductor, but recluse and carry on. Said that

757
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: Kleeber only conducts when the fridge is empty, like he

758
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: just for the last like ten or twenty years of

759
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 2: his life, he just he did not want to conduct.

760
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: He conducted only what he wanted to and he only

761
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 2: did it when he absolutely had two basically.

762
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to shout out yol Levy, who this

763
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: was the musical director at the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra starting

764
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight for about twelve years, and I

765
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: just remember it was a very big deal. Yo Levy

766
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 1: really kind of vaulted Atlanta's Symphony into a world class

767
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: organization and really put him on the map as far

768
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: as you know, it was Atlanta and it was the

769
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: late eighties, and so I think there was this idea

770
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: of like you know, the sort of the third Area

771
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: Podunk Symphony, yea, and he really really changed that. In

772
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: Atlanta is a world class symphony now being directed musical

773
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: director and lee conductor by Natalie Stutzman, who was the

774
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: first woman to be musical director here in Atlanta. And

775
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: it's a good time to talk about women because we

776
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: probably said he quite a bit. The history of conductor

777
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: is just rife with white European men. In general, I

778
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: think eleven percent of musical directors were women, and this

779
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: is a twenty twenty three report, and you know that's

780
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: changing more and more. There have been women here and there.

781
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: Cap Lanchette certainly one of them, but we got one

782
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, Natalie Stutzman. That's neat French.

783
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. There was a woman conductor who was back in

784
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 2: the early twentieth century, Antonio Rico. She was like the

785
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: first one. But I read that like after the first

786
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: decade or so of her, like the novelty kind of

787
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: wore off, and she had trouble finding work. So she's like, final,

788
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 2: just found my own symphony, and she did in Denver,

789
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: and she kept that position for decades until her death.

790
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 2: And I think nineteen eighty nine, but she really opened

791
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: the door for female conductors to come.

792
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And we're talking about a lot of Americans too,

793
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 1: you know, considering where classical music came from, not surprising

794
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: that Europeans are mainly conductors. But they've also pointed out that,

795
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: like you know, they they don't do it well here

796
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: in America as far as having a real system in place,

797
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: right to get great young assistant conductors and things like that,

798
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: a real pathway to leading like a major orchestra in

799
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: the United States, and that's something that they're i think

800
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: trying to work on and get better at.

801
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, which would be a big deal because among conductors

802
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: and musical directors it's mostly white European men. If you

803
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: look at assistant directors, it's much more diverse. So if

804
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 2: you can start figuring out how to promote talent from there,

805
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: then yeah, you'd have the whole field would be a

806
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: lot more diverse, which is great. Anytime you ad diversity,

807
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: things expand.

808
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're right when you look at the ranks

809
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: of assistants and then even on down the line, because

810
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: there are many many people that together, more and more

811
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: people of color getting involved. I think only four the

812
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: twenty five largest ensembles in the United States. Twenty one

813
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: of the twenty five are European. Still, so still a

814
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: lot of work to do.

815
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, one more person I want to shout out

816
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 2: is Simon Raddle. He's with the Berlin Philharmonic, which is

817
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 2: typically either the first or second best symphony in the world,

818
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 2: depending on who is rating it at the time. I

819
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: also saw Cleveland very frequently falls into the top five

820
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: to ten.

821
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: Nice Cleveland rocks, Yeah, exactly.

822
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 2: But Simon Rattle, I think is kind of emblematic of

823
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 2: the way that conductors are going these days. He started

824
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: instituting free lunchtime concerts, educational programs for underserved communities, streaming

825
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: stuff online. He's doing more twentieth century composed, not just

826
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 2: people who've been dead for a couple hundred years.

827
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

828
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 2: So it's really like it's just it's expanding. I think

829
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 2: it's always good when things expand, because it's not like

830
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: they're going to just abandon all the traditional stuff. You can't,

831
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 2: why would you. But that doesn't mean you can't also

832
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 2: incorporate new stuff too. Why do you have to go

833
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 2: see the same thing year after year?

834
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: Casual Friday, flip flop Wednesday.

835
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: That's right, Taco Tuesday, Taco Tuesday.

836
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's perfect man. I want to be in that organ.

837
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Well, if you want to know more

838
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 2: about conductors, just go online and start watching some videos

839
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: of them. It's pretty fun and you'll hear some pretty

840
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: good music too. You might even hear something you heard

841
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 2: and die hard. And since I said that, it's time

842
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: for listener mail, I'm gonna call this.

843
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: Hey, let's get into the weeds with quartz vibration.

844
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, I saw this one.

845
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: There were a couple of these, because there are some

846
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: people out there that know a lot more about this

847
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 1: than we do. Thankfully. Hey, guys, been a consistent listener

848
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: for about ten years. Your enlightenment and witty banter has

849
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: seen me through many good times and bad. I'm a

850
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: computer design engineer and listen to the Atomic Clock episode yesterday.

851
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: I want to clarify what seems to be a misunderstanding

852
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: about the resident frequency of quurts. You commented that Courts

853
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 1: repeatedly vibrates at thirty two, seven hundred and sixty eight

854
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,479
Speaker 1: hertz when energize, which is often the case of many

855
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: time pieces, but Quurtz does not inherently vibrate at thirty

856
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: two point seven to six eight killer herts. Yeah, that

857
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 1: was just different than the herts.

858
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 2: Ok.

859
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: Sorry, there would have to be some sort of divine

860
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,959
Speaker 1: miracle for courts to vibrate at thirty two thousand, seven

861
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight herts, which just happens to be a

862
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: very computer friendly number for a time piece. As you know,

863
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: almost all computers are designed to work based on ones

864
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: and zeros, and those binary numbers are stored as a

865
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: vector of binary digits bits. Hey, so they tend to

866
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: support a number of range a number range up to

867
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: some value. That's a power of two point three two

868
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: seven six ' eight just happens to be two to

869
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: the power of fifteen, which means thirty two thy seven

870
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty eight is the upper limit represented by

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00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: a fifteen bit digito. Whow by a fifteen bit number

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00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: in a computer that can count the ticks and a

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00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 1: digital watch before incrementing the seconds.

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00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: Whoo, Now I know how other people feel when I

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00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 2: try to explain something.

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00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: Scott finishes up by saying, quartz crystal will naturally have

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00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: a variable resonant frequency depending on its size, though it

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00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: could be thirty two point seven to six a killer

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00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: hertz or two megahertz or two hundred megahertz depending on

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00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: its size. The mass produced thirty two point seven six

881
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: a killer hertz crystal, commonly used in time pieces, was

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00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: specifically grown and laser trimmed to the exact size and

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00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: shape to make it computer and time piece friendly. I

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00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: actually finally understand. That is excellent, Scott, he says, come

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00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: see us in San Jose, California sometime.

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00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nice, Scott, thank you very much. We have to

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00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 2: go back and reread that one so I can absorb

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00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 2: it fully.

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00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: Sure you will, I will, okay.

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Speaker 2: Fine, If you want to be like Scott and explain

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00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 2: something to us in depth, we love that kind of thing.

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00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 2: It just might take us reading it a couple of times.

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00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 2: You can send that email to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio

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00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 2: dot com.

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00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.